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Originally Posted by Bo562
LH, I truly appreciate your input and the impact you’ve made on me. If anything, I need more tough love / alpha male in my life, and I’ve been able to find some of it here. Thank you!

You're welcome! I am glad I can help!

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Originally Posted by Bo562
Is it bad that part of me is kinda looking forward to this, though? I do look back and wonder ‘well, what if I dated or married so-and-so?’ I know I can make myself crazy with the what-ifs, so it’s a cheeseless tunnel that is not worth pursuing, although it does creep into my head every now and then.


It's not a bad thing. You probably have a better grasp of what you are looking for and might very well find someone that is a better fit for you. But at the same time I'm not sure there's anything any of us can do to ensure this will never happen again. Sometimes WAW's walk for a reason and sometimes they don't. Personally for better or worse I will never again be able to let my walls all the way down like I did with my XW. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't with her, I would have kept my guard up a little. Now I'm not saying I can't be in love and enjoy a relationship, as you've heard me say I really enjoy my R with my GF. But I will never depend completely on her or anyone else for support. If I get some it's cool, but if I don't that's OK too.

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AS, you’ve been right about so so much on my thread (and in general), and I hope and trust you’re right about this, too. I haven’t fully read my D papers yet—I’ve seen at different places on the forum about reading them when you’re ready, so I’ll wait a little bit—not too long, of course. I mean, how much rejection have I dealt with the last year or so—what’s reading about a little bit more?


It's pretty anxiety-inducing reading through the paperwork for sure. Very unpleasant. Just hang in there!

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I’m admittedly nervous about visitation—I’m scared that the courts would give her what she wants for visitation (sole custody for the next 6 months while breast-feeding; then every other weekend and Wed—Fri weekly). Even though I’ve been told (by L, and by family who have been through this) that the courts would equalize visitation, and I’m sure the courts will hear about her travel plans, and how much I care for them when W’s running around for work.


Well in general the attitudes have shifted in the last 30 years or so. Courts don't like deciding who is at "fault" in a D and why someone deserves more custody, it's way easier for them to just equitably split things down the middle. So yeah I'd say your w's chances of getting 100% custody are pretty slim. All 3 of our kids were breast fed long after XW went back to work, XW pumped and the milk went wherever it needed to go. That's the technology now, kids don't have to get it straight from the source every time.

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she asked me if I was worried how this would affect my job, because I teach morality / ethics. I told her “I’m not the one asking for a divorce.”


Who teaches AA- reformed alcoholics. Who counsels drug users- former addicts. Who better to teach morality and ethics than someone who has been through this and had to apply high moral standards to their behavior in the face of someone who has none.



Originally Posted by LH19
I ran a half marathon and do CrossFit and my friends talk about me like I'm a professional athlete lol.


LH- are you doing the Open? This is my 3rd year. Next year is my last in the 55-59 age group, then I move on to 60+ (wow you've got to be kidding me, LOL!)


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
LH- are you doing the Open? This is my 3rd year. Next year is my last in the 55-59 age group, then I move on to 60+ (wow you've got to be kidding me, LOL!)

I plan to next year. Being tall and lean I struggles with many of the barbell moves. Still trying to master them.

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Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
LH- are you doing the Open? This is my 3rd year. Next year is my last in the 55-59 age group, then I move on to 60+ (wow you've got to be kidding me, LOL!)

I plan to next year. Being tall and lean I struggles with many of the barbell moves. Still trying to master them.


I definitely recommend it, it's a great way to measure your progress from year-to-year! It's a lot of fun, you'll really push yourself. This year the WOD's have favored taller guys, especially the first one (wall balls and rowing) and 3rd (weighted lunges and weighted box step-ups). So you would have liked it I bet. I'm not tall so it's been a struggle for me!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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/Quick update (I have LH’s post to comment on later, plus details from convo with L earlier this afternoon):

To those who believe in signs / messages (or at least have a fairly well-developed sense of irony):

I went for a swim between my last class and talking with L this afternoon.

While I was doing a backstroke in the pool, my left arm came up with such momentum that the wedding band flew off my ring finger into the pool (I eventually did find it)


M: 36
W: 30
T: 9
M: 7

S6 (OS)
S7mo (YS)

ILYBINILWY BD: Feb. ‘18

W Wants S / D BD: 1/4/19

H / W still in-house

D papers from W: 3/14/19
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Hey Bo!

How are you?

I really liked this post :


Originally Posted by AnotherStander


Originally Posted by Bo562


she asked me if I was worried how this would affect my job, because I teach morality / ethics. I told her “I’m not the one asking for a divorce.”



Who teaches AA- reformed alcoholics. Who counsels drug users- former addicts. Who better to teach morality and ethics than someone who has been through this and had to apply high moral standards to their behavior in the face of someone who has none.


lol at the ring flying off. Glad you found it.

Bo keep being an awesome dad and Christian. Be the shining example of a proud Catholic Man living life to the fullest and in his faith.

I may have shared this with you before... in my past life I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be an art professor. Teachers were so influential in my life. A few of them were more than mentors. One lady became a friend of my mother and she became a spiritual influence in our lives. She was my first IHP teacher in middle school. My 3rd grade teacher cared for me as her son, she told her xH who was a cop to watch out for me because I would always walk home for many blocks. Back then my mother didn't know about the bus system... The teacher's xH put me in my first football team and would take me to school in his police car some days. My high school art teacher helped me get my art scholarship and helped me get out of some really bad trouble. She was like a grandmother to me.

I can imagine what you are going through as a man in your profession. Around so many women, yet feeling lonely? I can empathize working in an office full of women where I am. It feels good to just talk to someone and not have marital problems be the main subject all the time. I can imagine teaching some days would feel like a thankless job and then compound that with your W crazy talk at home. I wanted to let you know there will be kids out there you will affect in a positive way and they will never forget like I've never forgotten. Don't let anyone take away from who you are as a person.

I agree with what Sandi said about being equally yoked. I didn't like that phrase when I was younger, much younger, but as I got older I saw the wisdom in it. Your faith is part of your identity. Don't sacrifice that or lose it. Don't compromise it.

I was raised as Apostolic Pentacostal but when I got older I stopped going because I didn't believe in everything that went on in the church at that time. My W is a non practicing Catholic. I am mixed Asian. W is Vietnamese and many are either Catholic or Buddhist. I was not going to marry anyone Buddhist although my mother did convert way back. Was funny seeing her pray to God but on Chinese New year she would burn money. She was confused. I have seen Buddhist women convert to Catholicism and I think they too are confused. W and I never made religion or politics get in the way. We never pressed into going to Catholic church except for holidays sometimes. I now wonder if she would have liked for me to go more often or to truly convert. Sometimes I would have liked for her to show she was more spiritual.

I know having a partner who is the same faith as me doesn't guarantee eternal bliss, but if I had to do it all over again, I'd find someone who is a believer as much as I am, at least. BUT.... this isn't about finding the right partner. This is about YOU. Sure there are some 180s we can all do, but those are mostly behaviors we should continue to strive in getting better at anyways. You don't need to change who you are, not what's at your core. You can always build upon it though and I know you will.

What do the kids say these days? Don't get "lost in the sauce."


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Originally Posted by Adam04

lol at the ring flying off. Glad you found it.


I’m glad I found it, too. Despite what is going on, there is still meaning there. And we’re still married—even if the days of that are numbered.

Originally Posted by Adam04
Bo keep being an awesome dad and Christian. Be the shining example of a proud Catholic Man living life to the fullest and in his faith.


Thanks. Trying to do that.

Originally Posted by Adam04
I may have shared this with you before... in my past life I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be an art professor. Teachers were so influential in my life.


I do recall this from an earlier post, yes.

Originally Posted by Adam04
I can imagine what you are going through as a man in your profession. Around so many women, yet feeling lonely? I can empathize working in an office full of women where I am. It feels good to just talk to someone and not have marital problems be the main subject all the time. I can imagine teaching some days would feel like a thankless job and then compound that with your W crazy talk at home. I wanted to let you know there will be kids out there you will affect in a positive way and they will never forget like I've never forgotten. Don't let anyone take away from who you are as a person.


I’m glad you can relate. Some days are better than others—especially about the loneliness part, given that my profession is 2/3rds—3/4ths female. That part, given my sitch, can admittedly be very difficult, because I have some rather attractive female co-workers. (I know—still married, probably shouldn’t date for at least a year after everything goes final, but I can’t help notice.)

One of the blessings and curses of being a teacher is that I’m always busy (grading, lesson planning / prepping, assorted stuff that goes with being a teacher, etc.) I know my first couple of years at it (I never taught before, nor did I go to a school of education for it, so I had no formal training except on-the-job) I really leaned into my job, probably at expense of W and the family, but I’ve learned to balance it more the past couple of years, and give W and OS much, much more time.

I am trying to open up more to co-workers, in general—I’ve kinda been an island, and paradoxically, teaching is one of the professions that relies heavily on in-person contact and can also be incredibly isolating (because of the workload and the high walls of professionalism I need to keep up).

This may be a topic for later, but only 2 people at work know my sitch—my Dept. Chair (immediate supervisor), and a colleague my Dept. Chair recommended I talk with (who is D’ed and remarried, and will be retiring at the end of this school year). This colleague and I had a great discussion this morning—she empathized a lot with where I’m at, and she gave some really good insights. I’m also sure we will be talking next week, and later on, too.

Some days teaching can be a thankless job, but then there are plenty of moments where I’m reminded that a lot of students really do appreciate the work that I do. I have had a number of students the last 4-plus years tell me that I’m one of the best teachers they ever had, that I’m one of the few teachers who ask them how they are doing, one of the few teachers who really try to care about their students, that I make them feel welcome in the classroom. At the end of my last class today, before I hopped in the pool, I had a conversation with a young woman, a current student whose sister I had for 3 semesters as a junior and a senior. She asked me about college basketball (her older sister goes to Gonzaga, which is a #1 seed in the upcoming NCAA tournament). We talked about it, and she told me about her sister and how she feels about the tournament. The thought occurred to me earlier tonight on the ride home that I should feel so so lucky to have the relationship I do with this student and this young woman (and her family, in general—I met her parents again a few weeks ago, and the parents both gave me a hug upon seeing me again)—that both of their daughters I taught are exceptional young women, and I should feel grateful that the younger sister I teach now I seem to have an especially good connection and relationship with.

I’m pretty much over W’s crazy talk—I’ll share details about my convo with L later, but I’m starting to feel more and more like a free man, if that makes any sense.

I came home late tonight, as I was doing scoreboard operations for our baseball team / games—be present to the students, and make some extra $$$. W tells me that things may be getting crazy at work and she’ll need to work 2nd shift the rest of this week and I will probably need to get the boys and take care of them and blah blah blah. Me? “Sure. That won’t be a problem at all.”

Originally Posted by Adam04
I agree with what Sandi said about being equally yoked. I didn't like that phrase when I was younger, much younger, but as I got older I saw the wisdom in it. Your faith is part of your identity. Don't sacrifice that or lose it. Don't compromise it.


Thanks. I’ll do my best.

Originally Posted by Adam04
W is Vietnamese and many are either Catholic or Buddhist.


Orange County has a large Vietnamese population, and especially Vietnamese Catholics. Not to look too far down the road, but I find Asian women attractive (but then again, who doesn’t?), and being Catholic helps with attractiveness for me, too. I also have a number of Vietnamese students, which is kinda cool—for the most part, they tend to be among my very best students.

Originally Posted by Adam04
I know having a partner who is the same faith as me doesn't guarantee eternal bliss, but if I had to do it all over again, I'd find someone who is a believer as much as I am, at least. BUT.... this isn't about finding the right partner. This is about YOU. Sure there are some 180s we can all do, but those are mostly behaviors we should continue to strive in getting better at anyways. You don't need to change who you are, not what's at your core. You can always build upon it though and I know you will.


I wonder if I will find someone who is as much of a believer as me (if not equally-yoked, at least similarly-yoked—I don’t want a carbon copy of me, if that makes sense). I thought W was, and I’m seeing where that led me, as well as my previous dating adventures, too. Right now, I’m not trying to rule anything out. I do see the wisdom in what you and Sandi say, but this is something I need to tackle myself.

Hopefully, in time, someone will want to ride along with me on the journey (I posted this before, but—“be so good they can’t ignore you”), but until then....I do know that ultimately this is about me, and I think about the ground that I’ve covered in the last few months. I shouldn’t have to settle or sacrifice my core—I feel like I’ve given up, sacrificed or compromised a lot for W, and I’m kinda done with that.


M: 36
W: 30
T: 9
M: 7

S6 (OS)
S7mo (YS)

ILYBINILWY BD: Feb. ‘18

W Wants S / D BD: 1/4/19

H / W still in-house

D papers from W: 3/14/19
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Some highlights from yesterday’s conversation with L (we spoke for about 35 min.):

She reviewed the proceedings, and came away pleasantly surprised—not full physical custody. Essentially, pretty much all the things W / STBXW threatened me with did not come to pass in the proceedings.

*2-2-3 custody schedule (not asking for sole custody, like one of her threats)

*Courts not gonna split up the boys

*W / STBXW is asking for sole custody with ‘generous vistation ‘ while breast-feeding. L: Breast-feeding is ‘not compelling’ for sole custody—she pumps milk for the sitter, and I bottle-fed YS milk this past Saturday while she was out (as well as on other occasions). L’s words: “No way she can handle him 7 days a week.” L seems to believe that W will ‘come down’ from this one.

*Not exclusive use / possession of residence (so, she’s not kicking me out, unlike her earlier threat). If nobody moves out, custody schedule won’t be in effect, so who knows what this means.

*Somehow L discerned that W’s L’s rate is $125 / hour—L’s words to me over the phone: ‘Your W should be scared’ (apparently even when L first started practicing law, she never charged that much / that little). My L is $500 / hour—and honestly, even though that fee hurts, she’s been totally worth it. I love her wisdom and her personality—she’s honestly been great. If I didn’t listen to her or follow her advice, I would have pretty much accepted W’s parenting plan, and I wouldn’t have this extra time under our roof with the boys.

*L can ‘shadow’ mediation—meaning, we negotiate a lot of the items, put together a proposed judgment—best thing is to stop the bleeding (financially, and emotionally), keep things out of the courts as much as possible, she prepares paperwork and looks it over to make sure things are as good as they can be

*W did not ask for child support, or spousal support (unlike a previous threat by her); however, she does outearn me, so L will run the numbers to see what, if anything, I could be entitled to, and would it be worth pursuing (according to L, I could always modify child support judgments after everything goes through—apparently we can do that until kids turn 18 AND graduate high school)

*L is not a fan of the judge—fine person, but judicially a ‘wild-card’—she recommends what is called ‘papering’ a judge—one chance to switch judges, but then I’m stuck with 2nd choice. W could also do the same—they could ‘paper’ our judge, and then we’re all stuck. L basically told me that just about anyone else in OC would be better—her and none of her colleagues have a good judicial opinion of the judge.

*I brought up ‘Right of first refusal’ (seen on the forum, but also mentioned by my LMFT on Monday)—can be agreed to

*Most likely we will ask for a continuance to get our paperwork together

*If we can see eye-to-eye on all terms, wrap this up in the next 3 months (L’s most optimistic, best-case scenario); the more likely outcome is as long as we settle, get this wrapped up in the next 6 months (by the time W wants to go off to training in September); worst-case, litigate the h*ll out of everything? 18-24 months (Most likely, for the beginning of next school year, I will be newly-D’ed and single)

I find it reallly quite stunning, but I guess the vets shouldn’t be so surprised, I guess. My general impression is that W just wants to be ‘done;’ although, perhaps W has also realized that she wouldn’t get anywhere close to what she threatened me with.

Go ahead and 2x4 me if you must, but I’ve also had some melancholy thoughts about this: Maybe for W being married to me really was / is that bad, so she’s looking to get out, and just lay down her arms to get this going. I don’t know, I could be wrong.


M: 36
W: 30
T: 9
M: 7

S6 (OS)
S7mo (YS)

ILYBINILWY BD: Feb. ‘18

W Wants S / D BD: 1/4/19

H / W still in-house

D papers from W: 3/14/19
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Only 2x4 is to not overthink this. It could be what you say. Or it could be that she isn't good with confrontation and just wants to take the easiest path. Or she hasn't thought things all the way through. Or that she is feeling guilty and being conciliatory eases that guilt. No one knows, likely not even her!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Originally Posted by Steve85
Only 2x4 is to not overthink this.


Guilty of this in general—fair enough.

Originally Posted by Steve85
Or it could be that she isn't good with confrontation and just wants to take the easiest path.


Likely. Confrontation is not one of her strengths, though to be fair, it’s not a strength for a number of people.

Originally Posted by Steve85
Or she hasn't thought things all the way through.


Possible. Welp, I guess she’s gonna find out what this is like, and what life could very well be like.

Originally Posted by Steve85
Or that she is feeling guilty and being conciliatory eases that guilt.


Also possible.

Originally Posted by Steve85
No one knows, likely not even her!


Very real possibility.

Thank you, Steve!


M: 36
W: 30
T: 9
M: 7

S6 (OS)
S7mo (YS)

ILYBINILWY BD: Feb. ‘18

W Wants S / D BD: 1/4/19

H / W still in-house

D papers from W: 3/14/19
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