Last week W had the boys and I've been over there at W request almost every day; she says the boys tell her that they miss me and they all want me over. She asked me to spend the night Thursday night all the way through Sunday morning. Friday was my son's bday party and we took him out to play laser tag and video games with big brother. It was just the 4 of us and we all had fun. We had a surprise party that evening for the bday boy.
I helped the boys get W a card, flowers and chocolates for Mother's day and I left them for the day when her family was coming over. I didn't get her anything or make breakfast. She loved the card the boys made her on top of the one the my younger son chose for her. It was a huge card with pop-outs.
W and I continued to have sex throughout the week and she did prompt some R talk. I told her we weren't going anywhere without getting over that first hurdle, which is the infidelity. She swore she didn't cheat on me with anyone and wished she had some way to prove it. I asked her what about the transparency plan and she said whatever it took. She said she knew it was her fault for getting us to this point of no trust. She said she wanted to work it out, but I felt like she wasn't pleading or begging or straight volunteering info or passwords.
When I picked up the boys that Sunday night, she was sad and later said she was crying in a text to us goodnight. She usually facetime. I told her I was giving us a chance to see if we could reconnect and see if she would open up and be forthcoming and it was too bad. I knew not to expect anything. I wanted it to be clear we weren't going anywhere and being physical should stop and that it was my fault. I told her nothing added up. None of it. So Monday and Tuesday pass and we're keeping our distance but still cordial. She hasn't come by for the boys to visit. She does facetime in the morning and at nights. We had another text exchange and this led to her saying she was very sorry and felt so guilty for all of this happening. She still claims she did not have any physical affair especially with anyone from work. I told her I couldn't believe it with everything going on and I asked her to get her boss to vouch for her, who is like her best friend. She said it was a career suicide to do that. So she couldn't and I told her when we Divorce it would come up any ways during discovery if my attorney decides to reach out and asks her boss and others that she named were there if they were really there that day. She said she hopes it doesn't come to that. I asked her about the lie detector test and if she was willing and she said yes, no problem with that. She said her work, the boys and I were her life until I lost sight of things and when I got hospitalized it was like I stopped caring. Internal bleeding, not taking care of myself, the blood pressure. The nights I thought I was going to die. She said all this made her turn away and she was so sorry for this but she never cheated on me. She is getting the medical records for the BCP. She is open about her phone. She is willing to take the polygraph and she has turned on the find me app. She was over here earlier when I asked her if she wanted to see the kids. She was happy but she was crying the whole time here. She seems sorry for what she was doing. She said she is going to choose a counselor and tell me. I didn't respond. I asked her to look into the smut books. She later texted me she realized how wrong it was when she researched it and the damage it did to relationships and she texted me a somewhat lengthy text saying she is deleting her kindle and getting self help books instead. She said she was sorry for putting me through all this pain and she felt like scum of the earth and didn't know how to forgive herself but feels like she has to put aside her feelings to work on this to rebuild the trust.
When she was over, we didn't kiss like we had been. No kissing or any intimate stuff. When she was crying, I held her in my arms on the couch for a moment because I was cooking the kids dinner. She sat and watched me taking care of my boys and she was like a fly on the wall. My boys were happy playing and I was doing what I needed to do as if she wasn't there.
Many months back, she asked if I would go on a summer trip with them and I said I don't think so. Well that has changed, I plan to go on the trip with them to Legoland. My younger son will be sitting between mom and me for comfort on the plane. He is deathly scared of planes and heights but he loves legos so much that he is willing to give it a shot. I can not miss this for the world.
So... my love for my kids, it brings tears to my eyes. I asked W to look into the effects a divorce has on the children. I asked her to think about how she felt about her job and possibly losing it as it was most of her identity. Then I told her to replace that with our two boys and how they will lose their parents for we are all they know. Think about that pain.
In all of this, she has shown no signs of rebellion or putting up a fight. She has looked into what I asked. I also am trying to internalize my actions and motives. I've tried expressing I want to be support and help guide but I don't want to be controlling. I want both of us to do the hard work and I think from what I'm seeing and hearing, she is slowly opening up to that.
I know, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. I get the picnic analogy. I expect her to yo yo back and forth.
School is ending. W and I went over the kids end of school year calendar together when she was over here. I wasn't going to pick them up early so she asked if she could. She said that it would be my week. I told her I didn't have a problem with that and since the boys wanted her to I'm all for it. I couldn't do it due to my work. We are co-parenting well.
We did hug and she tapped me on the back like one of those friendly taps and I told her no, You're not going to friend zone tap me like that. We both smiled and had this look like well what else can we do in this awkward position. I walked her down to her car since it was dark out and told her gnight.
I am in the process of looking for counselors. Not sure if there is a difference in male or female ones for men. Will choose one using the John Gottman method.
Few questions:
male or female counselor? does it matter?
When W wants to bring up R talk again, is there much more to talk about if we don't address the infidelity issue?
What are your thoughts on her taking the polygraph? I have a place and questions already.
What are your thoughts on going ahead on the transparency plan and asking for the passwords to everything and also the access to the cameras on the house. It'd be like spying to see who comes and goes.
What about poking through the phone?
I had a severe headache one time talking to her in this last week and it had something to do with the R talk but I didn't know what it was or cant remember. I was sort of shocked I was feeling this way.
I changed some info because now W is on her journey and will be out there on the internet looking for answers and help.
Earlier last week when W and I were being affectionate and physical I felt bad for the cake eating. Since I've stopped that, I've felt better. It was nice though. We shared a moment and had a glimpse of what it could be like. When I agreed to go to lego land they all were excited. We were excited to go for the kids. W even said we could take road trips and kinda jumped the gun and I did too, said we could make a bucket list for the family.
I think now would be a great time to find the right counselor.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
I've never posted in your thread before, so forgive me if I'm getting ahead of myself.
I know there have to be conditions and transparency for a WAS, especially wayward, to be taken back. I get that it has to be something that would satisfy you. Access to phone is part of the deal in many cases. But navigating that is really difficult. Reading about polygraphs and security cameras and asking her to have her boss vouch for her has me concerned.
It sounds like she is trying to be transparent and wants to rebuild your trust. The question really is if you're going to be able to trust her again, and I know it's a hard thing to do. But for this to work, you have to trust her. Actually trust her. Polygraphs can be unreliable, but the bigger issue is what it says about your trust level. Say she passes the polygraph. Great. But life goes on. Are you going to want another one in a month if something happens?
Rebuilding trust is a long road, but if it's going to happen it's got to happen without polygraphs and cameras. Just my 2 cents.
M 44, W 32 T 10, M 8 D 2 Oct '18: Fantasy affair with OW1 (yes, W) Feb '19: Inseparable from new lesbian BFF Still live together but a lot of tension
Something in me doesn’t want to spy and snoop. I want HER to be the one to tell me or show me to a point I am satisfied. I also don’t want to take her back too quickly. I weigh what you say against that. I appreciate the response. I think maybe because I want to move past this I am accepting the thought of the polygraph to move forward but I don’t feel good about that. Need to be logical and not going by these feelings.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
I agree with neff, relax and take it one day at a time. No expectations.
Re male or female marriage counselors. I honestly don't think it matters. What matters is that you both want the same outcome and are willing to do the necessary work to get there. That she is willing to go, in fact, she is the one that wants to go shows that she is, at least right now, committed to trying. There are no guarantees. MC [censored]. It is opening up a wound and then digging around in it with a dirty old stick. It will hurt. But I think, if you are both willing to stick it out (pun intended), it will be worth it in the end.
Originally Posted by Adam04
What are your thoughts on her taking the polygraph? I have a place and questions already.
I think trust goes deeper than this. If you don't trust her, then her passing the test isn't going to gain that trust back. You will just google 'how to fool a polygraph test' and find one or two obscure examples where someone, somewhere successfully fooled the test, and then you're right back where you started. You see, at first, trust is a choice. You chose to trust someone and, yes, initially it is fragile and easily broken. You will look for signs that she is breaking that trust, but over time, and with consistency, it becomes something you don't even think about anymore. One day at a time. Eventually, hopefully, it is just something that is, like breathing, or loving your children. It is no longer a choice, it is just something you know is true.
I do agree with access to phones and computers. It would have to go both ways. You cannot expect her to do something you are not willing to do yourself.
Strangely, I guess full transparency would be letting her know what you have written here. That's a tricky one. I am not sure I would want my H to know what I have shared with virtual strangers. My truth is not his truth, right?
I guess my question is, how much do you want to know about what she has said and done whilst she was in her fog ... because MC is about letting all that stuff out.
The poly is a no go. I don't think it will be coming from a place of strength or that it will help in the long run. It can come across as controlling. I don't want to force her to take it to try and catch her in a lie. Even if she willingly takes it, I don't feel right about it. It'll show the level I would go to and in the long run I think there are better ways than that.
I do want to trust her. My issue I think is that I am afraid I will be too trusting of her too easily without her gaining back that trust.
In DR I read that if the WAS no longer feels like they want to D we could discuss our needs, like addressing the infidelity. Since she has not been forthcoming and still denies, I don't think MC will be a start.
When I mentioned counseling, I was referring to individual for both of us. I don't think MC is right for now. if W did take a polygraph and passed, I think the focus would quickly be removed from her doing the necessary work to me and how I was blaming her. She'd still need to do the work.
Steve, I try to ask myself the questions like will this help or hurt me and am I coming from a place of strength. I do try to think logically. It's hard sometimes with feelings in the way so I can imagine how the WAS feels. I see many parallels.
ovrrnbw, the pats on the back I laugh at. She did it again today after meeting me and the boys up for dinner. I tapped her on the back the same way and we both sorta just laughed. I'm not sure if we can both keep our composure when it comes to the physical aspect of what we have at the moment. It will be a weakness of mine I may need to overcome. She said she is getting the bed in tomorrow and was washing the sheets tonight so I've said some things in reference to tomorrow night.
FS and nef, I agree to taking it one day at a time and to have patience. I need it. W is slowly coming out of that fog I think. So I think and I may be jumping the gun here that I may need to find out what I should be doing next to plan ahead. We're a long way from recon. But I am not sure if I need to do the full LRT as she no longer says she wants to D. She wants to work on the R and rebuild trust. So its like limbo again but are there any new rules or the same ones at this point? In DR it says to let the WAS know what we want/need. I don't think W will address the need to confront the infidelity. I hope when she goes to counseling and over time she will see something in me where she feels safe enough to tell me the truth.
FS, I am ready for the truth. I want to rebuild and put a lot of this in the past. I have to let go of wanting and of expecting. I am trying to enjoy the days as they come.
It feels a little conflicting. We distance so they don't run and when they come to us, we keep that distance so they don't cake eat.
As for full transparency... I still have all my messages of the women I've texted and W has been free to check my phone. I did change my password because of this site though. She does not get to see this. She is more than welcomed to go through any of my texts freely. Always have. I haven't deleted anything.
W and I used to share passwords to our accounts from emails to anything else online. I do want to restore that level of trust where she can go into my yahoo mail if she needed something like a financial doc or I could go into hers for the like. Same for amazon accounts. paypals. etc. The camera on the house. The deal with that is if I plan to move back in, then yeah I too would be using the app to monitor the traffic of people.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Adam, check into Retrouvaille. I think it would be an incredible experience for both of you and would pave the way to a recon with vastly improved communication.
Remember your job is to keep the way home paved and smooth. You don't want to rush back into anything, and you do want to make her do some work, but be careful about setting up roadblocks on that road home.
So you know I've been here a while. Even though most LBS's here think the success rate is low, there actually are quite a few recon stories. What you're describing about your W sounds like a real, legitimate recon interest on her part, very similar to the beginning of many other recons that have happened. Of course you are skeptical but your first step is this- believe it's real.
