My wife and I have been married for 15 years and together for 16 years. We have two boys, 10 and 8. She also has a strong family history of mental illness and has delt with depression for years. She was diagnosed as bipolar just over a year ago. She appears to be taking her medications. We have had our issues over the years like most. We have had 3 big blow ups in 15 years. In the first 2 blow ups I mention divorce and suicide. I had no intentions doing either but stupidly used them for empathy. (Had separation issues as a kid as my mom left my dad who was a truck driver so we were raised by babysitters). So she is routinely unhappy about everything... from her job to the kids school to life in general. She would mention this and I relayed to her it’s life and everyone hates there job to everyone wants their kids in a better school, etc. She recently came to me and said she wants a permit separation and that she was getting her own apartment. She has said the most meanest things she has ever said to me in our 15 years. I have tried to talk to her before I read the Divorce Remedy book. She also read it and said that book is nothing more than manipulation and that it is wrong. Every time we talk everything is my fault. She takes no responsibility for anything in the relationship. I have apologized time and time again and I have started counseling by myself as she refuses to go to marriage or individual counseling. She said it’s because no one is going to blame her as she feels she has tried for 15 years. So I am the only one trying to save this. She gives me a little hope and takes it away just as quick. I recently found paperwork from a attorney and when I asked her if I would be getting divorce papers once she is in her apartment she said she isn’t promising anyone anything. I did not tell her I saw the paperwork. When she told the kids about her apartment she said it wasn’t a divorce, although 2 days prior to that she paid a 3k retainer. Her support system are her parents who have hated me for the entire time we have been together and a female friend who is divorced. Clearly I’m a wreck and doing all I can.
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Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Steve... when we first met she had moved to the area to go to school for a year and then was to move back home. We got together and she did not return home. She had told me all the horrible ways her family treated her so of course I had issues with them from the get go. They also had issues with me. Once we had our boys they reappeared due to the kids. Her parents have just have always been cold to me and of course I was the same.
Thanks Cadet. I knew her uncle had schizophrenia and that was it. About 5 years into the marriage is when she started dealing with her depression. It has gradually worsened. She normally is ok but every other week or so she becomes really unhappy with a part of our life’s. Debt, where we live, the kids school, her job, etc. I got her to go to a psychiatrist in June 2018 and she was diagnosed bipolar. Her older brother has recently been diagnosed with mental illness and in the past 6 months he has been hospitalized 4 times. I don’t have any support unfortunately. I know I can’t fix her but I care for her so much and I am doing all I can to try and save our relationship. I’m really not trying to save the old marriage just want to start a new marriage.
So she is routinely unhappy about everything... from her job to the kids school to life in general. She would mention this and I relayed to her it’s life and everyone hates there job to everyone wants their kids in a better school, etc.
If this is typical of the responses you've been giving her over the years then you were doing a LOT of damage and probably didn't realize it. Read the links Cadet posted and in particular the thread about validation. She was trying to share her feelings with you and you were routinely dismissing them as if they don't matter, and as such you made her feel unimportant. This is the kind of stuff that really adds up over the years and causes a lot of resentment. Then when someone comes along (usually OM) that DOES listen to her then it's like giving water to someone that has been crawling through the desert forever.
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I have tried to talk to her before I read the Divorce Remedy book. She also read it and said that book is nothing more than manipulation and that it is wrong.
Oh man, you never should have shown her the book. Unfortunately now anything you do she will see as tricks to get her back. "Oh you're only doing that because you read it in that book". Don't talk to her about the book anymore. Don't let her see you reading it or any other relationship book. You've got to pull back and let her think you've had an awakening and are letting her go.
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Every time we talk everything is my fault. She takes no responsibility for anything in the relationship.
Once a person becomes a WAS this is how they see things. You need to quit talking to her about the R.
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I have apologized time and time again
Apologizing from the heart once or twice is fine, but don't keep doing it. It just makes you look weak to her. She thinks everything is your fault, and if you apologize all the time it just reinforces that she's right, it really IS all your fault.
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she refuses to go to marriage or individual counseling.
Don't try to make her go.
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Her support system are her parents who have hated me for the entire time we have been together and a female friend who is divorced.
Don't blame them, WAS's always have enablers. The enablers only hear one side of the story so there's nothing you can do to defend yourself. You just have to let go of that and focus on what you can control, which is YOU. Read DR. Read Sandi's rules every day. Get out and GAL. Give your W time and space.
Steve... when we first met she had moved to the area to go to school for a year and then was to move back home. We got together and she did not return home. She had told me all the horrible ways her family treated her so of course I had issues with them from the get go. They also had issues with me. Once we had our boys they reappeared due to the kids. Her parents have just have always been cold to me and of course I was the same.
Okay, I am not sure this answers my question. What were the issues?
CDJB, I am trying to get this information so I can provide feedback taking that into account. In general, having issues with a spouses family will always come back to haunt you later. After all, they are her parents. So unless they were extremely abusive to her at some point she is probably going to want a relationship with them.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
CDJB, one other observation while I await your response. Women do not need their own place to work on their MR, find themselves, etc. Women need their own place to sleep with other people. Likely she is already involved with someone else. Monkeys rarely leap from one branch until they've identified another branch they feel is more attractive. I say brace yourself because a lot of LBSs come here in denial about that. But all of the markers for that are here in your sitch.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I’m really not trying to save the old marriage just want to start a new marriage.
And how would the new marriage be different from the old one?
My recommendation is to take this time to really focus on yourself and how you behave in a relationship. AS talked about validation and that was a thought I had as well. How did you contribute to the downfall of the marriage?
Sure, she may have some personality issues which need to be addressed, but those arent the sole reason for the trouble in your relationship. Where do you take ownership? You may be sorry, but what exactly are you sorry FOR? and how will it be different/better next time? How are you showing that through your actions?
Ok. So about her parents... she had cut ties with them due to how controlling they were of her. I think it was easier for her to do once we became a couple. Then they reached out once we had the boys. So she reconnected with them. They of course felt I was the reason for his disconnecting from them as she never came clean with them. They attached all of the to me. And they had treated me like I stoked their daughter from them and had I not become involved with her then she would have returned home and they all would have been happy.
I’m working on the marriage by trying to change my behavior. By seeing a psychologist with or without her. By letting her go and trying really hard to do the 180. Hopes are that once she sees it not a bed of roses out there and that the problems don’t go away because I’m not around. She works with a lot of women and most are younger than her. I don’t think a OM is involved at this point. Think she is being guided by her parents and lady’s she works with.
Clearly the old marriage was toxic for her and me. Communication was crap. My hopes are with the psychologist I can address these behaviors and become a better listener and such. But I do realize she also is going to need to get some help on accepting some responsibility in all this and get some individual counseling of her own.
I was originally seeing a marriage counselor who recommended the book. After I read it he incouraged me to ha e her read it also. Only reason why I gave her the book. At this point I’m aware she has to blame me for everything to make it easier for her to walk away. We are doing a week on and a week off. Not sure how is going to do with the boys. I work one weekend a month and by Sunday she is frustrated and angry as they are 8 and 10 year old boys. I get home Sunday evenings and she tells me she is done dealing with them and that I need to take care of them for the rest of the evening. I normally get several calls over the weekend also about there misbehaving. Not sure how see is going to deal with that for 7 days straight. At one point she wanted me to get a apartment in her complex. I assume so when they acted up she could send them to my place easily. I refused to do that. I have a flexible schedule so I normally take them to school and pick them up. Get them home, start homework, and cook dinner. So she will have do all that alone when they are with her. I have always been a team with the boys and now it will be all on her. Thanks for all the help. I am trying to do my best but I have never gone through this before so I am really making some big mistakes...
So CDJB, in most cases a WAW has lost attraction for her LBH. That is why she is unhappy, looking to leave, and open to OM.
WAWs will describe even being DISGUSTED with their husbands. I watched a Dr. Phil episode yesterday where a WAW in an EA said she had to go into the bathroom before having sex with her husband to pray for strength. My W described her sexual feelings toward being no different than a random guy on the street, and even compared me to someone we know that she has no attraction to whatsoever. You say your wife has said the most hurtful things to you, we've all been there.
So why do WAWs lose attraction. Well the experts like sandi will tell you that attraction for women stems from respect. Your WAW has lost respect for you and therefore attraction. The way to reattract her is to earn her respect back. Another author's book I read talked about how women in active As with LBHs that are oblivious, they have no respect for the man. Do some recon and try to find out, ASAP. Or confront her about it flat out. Like I said, she likely left the house to enable her to go physical with an OM, or Other Men.
As far as her parents, your mistake was not encouraging her to keep a connection with them. Look at it from their viewpoint, if you were her father wouldn't you view you the way he does? I know I would in that case. A spouse should encourage their spouse to have a relationship with their family. My FiL is a piece of work. Even to this day he and my W's relationship is strained. But I do nothing BUT encourage her to keep connected to him. Would it be easier for me to have him out of her life completely? Of course. She cries after some of the things he does and says. She gets very moody when he is in town and we have to be around him. She is in pain before, during and after. But it is still her father. And at the end of our lives I don't want her to have regrets that she didn't do her daughterly duty by him. (We are both devout Christians and believe deeply in the command to Honour thy Father and Mother.)
CDJB, DBing consists of 3 things. And these are things you should concentrate on: 1. Loving detachment. Read the detachment thread and practice practice practice! It is imperative that you try to get to a place where you are not reacting to what she does and says emotionaly. 2. 180s Look at yourself. And 180 on bad behaviors. Your goal is to become the best CDJB you can possibly be! A man only a fool would leave. You can't do that unless you correct the behaviors that make you look weak, mean, not able to command respect, etc. Do an honest assessment and reverse course on those behaviors. 3 GAL Like a madman. Be busy busy busy. WHen you aren't with your kids be busy. Reconnect with long lost MALE friends. Joine meetup groups. Take up bowling. Anything. The busier you are the easier 1. and 2. will become. GAL is the key to being successful. Those that struggle the most do GAL the worst.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks Steve. And I should have never gotten in the way of the relationship between her and her parents. But hindsight is always 20/20. There is a lot of things I wished I had done that I didn’t. Should have listen more, etc. I can’t go back in a time machine or I would and would be in this predicament. I can however make changes so the past doesn’t repeat. So my time machine is today. And then tomorrow and so on. I have told her this in my many times of apologizing. And I can understand with how I have taken the news about the respect part. Just so tuff to put the emotions aside when I’m grabbing for anytto keep my head above water. I have done some recon and there is no OM at this point. Think it’s more of her parents and girlfriends encouragement, which is adding to her empowerment. One of her friends is a divorce single mother who has been helping her detach. When we talk and are finished talking she is texting like a mad person to either her father or her divorced friend.
CDJB, I like your thinking. But stop apologizing. You've already apologized, so stop. People don't forgive because you keep apologizing. Your actions will speak louder now than your words!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve...is it the same for WAH's? Or do they walk away for other reasons? Just curious.
Unfortunately, no. The sad news is that sometimes men will walk away for pure aesthetics. That is why we see men that leave wives of 10, 20, or 30 years, for a younger woman.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
it amazes me how easily people walk away . Vows apparently mean nothing to people
Cdjb- hindsight is 20/20 for sure. It is hard to get over thinking of what you did or didnt do it hurts, but what we have to realize is they also weren't perfect. The waw/h also had their faults they need to fix/work on .
Steve85- I def agree that its about losing respect for a woman and her H. I have been told that I can't be the man she needs me to be. It is too much change she said.
it amazes me how easily people walk away . Vows apparently mean nothing to people
Cdjb- hindsight is 20/20 for sure. It is hard to get over thinking of what you did or didnt do it hurts, but what we have to realize is they also weren't perfect. The waw/h also had their faults they need to fix/work on .
Steve85- I def agree that its about losing respect for a woman and her H. I have been told that I can't be the man she needs me to be. It is too much change she said.
bubbs, also, if you read my sitch you see it turned around fairly quickly. I think part of that is that while my wife was wayward, she never lost respect for me. She was vehement on this point. Believe nothing they say and half of what they do. But her actions bore out the fact that she did still respect me. And that is why the attraction returned so quickly.
This is why the LBH has to do things that command respect. Keep the MBR. GAL. 180. Detach. You do things that she will respect and the attraction will return. Whether she acts on it or not is another matter.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I was originally seeing a marriage counselor who recommended the book. After I read it he incouraged me to ha e her read it also. Only reason why I gave her the book.
Well I'm sure he/ she meant well but it usually backfires for the reasons I described earlier.
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I normally get several calls over the weekend also about there misbehaving.
Ha! Before BD my ex was always telling people what a great dad I was. At BD she said I was too stern with the kids, that it was one of the reasons she was leaving. Months later she was griping about how they never listened to her, and asked me what my "secret" was, why was it that they always listened to me and all I would have to do is look at them a certain way and they would straighten up. Gee I wonder why, could it be that they need their parents to be "stern" with them now and then? This is how it goes with a WAS, they rewrite everything about your history together to suit them.
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I have always been a team with the boys and now it will be all on her.
That's part of her journey is discovering what life will be like without you. It's going to take a long time before she starts to turn around so be patient!
