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ovrrnbw Offline OP
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New thread.

Old thread: OLD THREAD


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Over;

I do not like the way she yells at you.

What have you done to address that?

How are you doing otherwise?


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Let me get this straight; yelled "F U" at you because you didn't give her the Hulu password fast enough for her liking, is that correct? Oh my. I'm literally shaking my head right now. She is really something else! I am sorry you have to deal with that. I do appreciate your honesty too. It can't be easy.

I see what you mean about your conditions being that she attend MC with you and then changing your mind. You want to be consistent. A good MC should be able to see her bratty behavior and know how to call her out on it. Is that happening? I wish I had better advice for you. It's hard because this has been going on for awhile and she has become accustomed to "getting away with bad behaviors." My sense is that you are, or you will, going to get tired of this. That may be the point, when she thinks she is losing you, that she may be willing to change. Until then, you might be stuck with some of this cr-p attitude from her.

It almost feels as if you are raising a rebellious teenager (similar to a toddler, but with more life experiences and power to do things). She walks around high and mighty and then when she doesn't get her way, she acts out. It is a form of control and manipulation. I am not even sure how aware she is of how toxic it is. But she does it because it works for her. She is getting her way.

The thing about raising toddlers and teenagers, is that it is a lot of work! The ones that are strong willed require twice as much parenting. You have to be firm and consistent, show plenty of tough love, and you have to demonstrate strength and calmness. You cannot let anything slide under the radar, but you only give it minimal energy, as they cannot have power over you! I think DBing for you is going to be like raising a rebellious teen. You cannot be afraid of losing her love and affection. The opposite is true; as she sees that you are confident and not putting up with her BS, she might pitch a fit initially, but she will learn that you are someone she can come to respect. Sandi talks a lot about how a woman has to respect a man before she can love him.

Unfortunately, you have your work cut out for you. If you decide this M is not worth that much work, I would agree you are reasonable in deciding to get out. Nobody deserves to have someone they live with yell F U at them! Your home should be a place of peace and safety.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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I don't know what to do to address it. I got up and left the room and didn't speak with her the rest of the night. Then this morning she tries bumping into my leg with her leg - several times. Then making noises. I said "Yes?" a coule times, then I asked her what's going on with her leg? She just made more noises so I said "I'm confused, are you being nice now?"

Then she got huffy when I got out of bed without snuggling her. Then she said goodbye while I was on the toilet. So I said goodbye through the door. More huffing. Then she hadn't left so she gave me a hug goodbye when I got out of the bathroom and told me she's annoyed. I asked about what and she replied "you know". What a way to live!

But anyways I'm pumped for finishing my online training, getting training in LA, and starting the new gig in March. And in a couple of weeks I'll have more free time too so that's awesome.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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And Cadet, maybe you can correct the typo in my subject line. I meant to do that about three months ago but forgot. It's annoying me.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I don't know what to do to address it. I got up and left the room and didn't speak with her the rest of the night. Then this morning she tries bumping into my leg with her leg - several times. Then making noises. I said "Yes?" a coule times, then I asked her what's going on with her leg? She just made more noises so I said "I'm confused, are you being nice now?"

Then she got huffy when I got out of bed without snuggling her. Then she said goodbye while I was on the toilet. So I said goodbye through the door. More huffing. Then she hadn't left so she gave me a hug goodbye when I got out of the bathroom and told me she's annoyed. I asked about what and she replied "you know". What a way to live!

But anyways I'm pumped for finishing my online training, getting training in LA, and starting the new gig in March. And in a couple of weeks I'll have more free time too so that's awesome.


ovr, are you guys in counseling? Either IC or MC? Or both?


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Cool, calm, collected

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Ovr,

Last I read I thought you two were in MC, how is that going?

If you two are recon, I'd think it would be okay to at least express to her your feelings about F U and see if she can at least change some of that behavior, that's a small start in the right direction. If she does, it means she's considerate of your feelings and can display some control. If she can't well, how can she change the other bigger stuff no matter how supportive you can be for her?

I'd look at the small stuff as opportunities to openly communicate your wants and see how that goes, but that's from my limited scope of assuming she is all-in.

If she's not all-in, what is the purpose of MC or continuing opposed to pulling back to the first steps of DB? Looks hard and demanding having to adjust to the swing of the sitch. (())


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
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We went to a couple MC in the summer, met with our priest in December, but we are not really in MC yet. Tonight is the first night of MC since her last episode of running back to the OM a month ago.

W is starting to see her IC again.

I am not seeing an IC.

The purpose of MC is it was part of the conditions for letting her back in my world and to hopefully heal this sitch.


H 34
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If I could go back and do anything differently in my M it would be speaking up and communicating. Well, there are a lot of things I would have done differently like never marry the A hole, but I digress.....

You did not like the way she spoke to you. You should say " I do not appreciate you speaking to me like that" instead of the passive aggressive silent treatment.

When she tries to snuggle you when she wants it because she wants it, but you aren't feeling it because she treats you like cr@p, how about keeping it real?

"W, I don't feel like snuggling right now. The way you spoke to me earlier actually turns me off and does not make me feel affectionate."

My ex treated me like poop. And he couldn't figure out why I did not want to be intimate with him. The stuff outside of the bedroom really does translate inwardly. who wants to be vulnerable with someone who treats you like cr@p?

Just be honest with her. What do you really have to lose? You only have more to gain.

I am 38 now. Turning 39 this year. My ex was 28 and I was 27 when he dropped the bomb. The difference was we had a 6 month old at the time. My daughter is my life, and she was our IVF miracle baby. But I honestly I wasn't in such awful denial about who he was and either really really spoke up the right way (I just became horribly passive aggressive because I couldn't say anything because he was always right and I was always wrong). I wish someone she was a real man's child. I feel bad for bringing her into a marriage that I knew was on bad ground.

If you want children, please, make sure you get to a healthy place first. I wish I knew what I know now back then.

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That's a tough one ovr,

I see now where you are at. Is it safe to say you are yo-yoing back up after a setback? After MC have you decided how much you are going to pull back to protect your feelings and have you figured out how open/honest you want to be with her? I'm sure you can gauge your convos to see if she is vested. Here's the deal with that for me, if I knew W was still seeing OM and lied to me, I would stop all forward progress,( stopping the games).

If you're W had a setback, depending how honest about it she was with you, I'd consider supporting and encouraging her but it's really what you got from it. Do you feel she is committed and needs the encouragement?

Don't mean to hi-jack but Ginger, when I read your posts, your words hit home. It makes me look at myself as a H, man, and father. My heart goes out to you. Sometimes I can hear words echo as if they are whispered from my W.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
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Hey everyone,

thought I'd write down a few notes from MC last night:

Therapist said W is minimizing her actions when telling her story. I've been guilty of this too. We can learn from our own mistakes and from others.

Therapist said we are good at fighting and not so good at listening and hearing each other. That has to be true b/c even our priest said that last month. I really need to dig in and 180 here. And I am trying, I was trying to do that the other couple days when she was screaming at me.

Therapist point blank asked me a question and W interjected before I could respond and answered for me. That was rich.

Therapist asked me if I was comfortable a couple of times, and the way she phrased it reminded me of this Mike Tyson interview where the interviewer was clearly being a dick and Tyson lit the guy up saying "it's more uncomfortable being in here with a rat POS like you". Well I was thinking my W was the rat. I was just so disgusted listening to her garbage and my body language showed it, at least for the first half of the hour, so I cleaned up my body language.

Everything W talks about is how I hurt her, over and over. I'm tired of it. I wouldn't be tired of it if she were thinking about her part. At one point the therapist mentions how each side needs to own their part of the marriage breakdown and W acts like she agrees. I said "Hold on, that's not true! Why don't you tell her the truth, W?" I went to say how W is BS'ing herself on her part. I really was thinking about how to sabotage this MR - maybe that's not possible considering where it is - and just getting out. W just ruins my happy moods right now. I know these are emotions I need to work through, and I need to keep detaching so I can come back see things clearly and make a calm decision. So I am just keeping that in mind.

Ginger, great posts and thank you! Kids aren't anywhere on the horizon given this sitch. And you're right about speaking up for myself. What do I really have to lose? A crap relationship?

Adam, I don't feel the commitment. Nope nope nope. That's what is holding this back. So I stay back. I don't put myself out there, but I need to take steps to protect myself and enforce my boundaries. I need to not let fear control my decision. I need to drive any fear into the ground. And I'm really trying to get serious here.


H 34
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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Did her affair come up at all in the MC? What was said about that? Also, did you feel the MC tried not to take sides and was objectively listening to each of you?

Your sitch is still complicated in my opinion because 1. you guys have this long history now of her being abusive and you putting up with it (it's like she knows she can walk all over you and still have you right back) and 2. she is back physically, but not remorseful or "back emotionally" (she hasn't even owned up to having an affair or proved it's over).

In this M, there is no trust, no transparency, and no love. It doesn't even seem like you guys like each other. So my fear is that as time carries on like this, you are creating more hurt and damage, and ultimately you may be done and not want to fix it.

So I am concerned you guys are darned if you do, darned if you don't. I think your best bet, if you want to be with her in any real lasting way, would be to kick her to the curb now. Why? Because she is abusive, she doesn't respect you, and she refused to even look at her problems, own up to them or even want to change. I see you trying to make change and adjustments and that is great. I see your desire and motivation. I think you will grow and benefit from that.

The thing is, to fix a relationship, it takes two people. She is not willing. And she has also learned that she doesn't really need to because you will stay with her regardless. So yeah, she's gotta get out, or maybe you could leave. I am sure you will dismiss me and write me off. But I genuinely think you should change your tune here. If I were you, I would say firmly and lovingly, that I am miserable in this M, that I want a separation, that we both need to heal and grow as individuals, and that possibly in 6 months or 1 year, we could come back together and see if there is a chance. She can scream and cry, hit you over the head with pillows, but so what? What does that proove?

The thing is, Ovr, what other choice do you have? So you continue with all this drama, she acts like a royal bish, and you continue to grow to resent her. You already do. I can tell you resent her more and more as this continues. So eventually, you will get sick of this, leave her, and you won't even want to look back. Why not nip this in the bud now before it's too late?

Blu


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Hi Ovvrnbw,

Marriage counseling sounds tough. On one hand it's great that you and your wife are going together but on the other hand it exposes the issues even more. If you're like me, and religious reasons play into your decision to honor your vows and keep divorce as the last option, I don't think you'll ever regret trying to make things work with your wife. Asking her to go to counseling is one of the only things you can do at this point-in-time. Still, in my case my husband came back after his affair and we lived in a situation kind of like yours until he got tempted and left again. You may end up in the same position, but you may regret a decision to divorce too quickly as well. It seems in your case like an physical separation, or legal separation, may help to clear your head and may help your wife to realize that she's at risk of losing everything. You don't need to go straight to divorce, but if she's not making progress and you're feeling bad then a more radical approach may be necessary.

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Blu, I appreciate you staying involved in my sitch. The affair came up. Initially, W glossed over a lot and said she "started dating someone", therapist read my body language there and saw something, but I didn't interrupt. We got back around to it, and I made it clear that longer before W ever dropped the bomb on me that she started talking to OM. W: "We were just friends". Me: "Yea it's always 'just friends' or some guy from work, I don't buy it. It's wrong, quit lying."

W has said things like "It was bad for a long time, since before we were married". I used to let that statement go unchallenged, but recently I've started saying "Yes, and you still chose to marry me and commit to me. That's not an excuse to cheat." W doesn't know what to say to that b/c the statement about things being bad was something she and her parents came up with to make her actions seem better. I do think the MC is remaining objective. The MC did ask us why we were here, so I said "Ladies first". W was about one step below saying "I'm committed to fixing this", but it was more than I expected. Of course the MC is not aware yet of all the back and forth between me and OM. I'm frankly disgusted with myself for enabling that for so long. I guess that's why I try to help the new people here. W did try to prove it was over by showing me the texts on Snapchat. I guess that's all I get, and even then, it could be contrived. But so could a phone call. The trust is very little.

As for your separation advice, as you know I'm a bit unsure about this. The growing resentment is not good for me. I was thinking about being done with W a bunch on the night of MC. And W adds pressure to me in her own ways. W went to her IC again this week, that's good I guess. I've read your words several times and thought about it a lot. It takes time to understand things, or maybe one more read before you really understand. I think your concern is the lack of trust, respect, love and that continuing to operate this way will just damage things further. And maybe I don't understand it fully yet.

Adam, my sitch is a weird one (kinda, maybe not). Not sure how you mean yo-yoing. But yes I am, we are, she is yo-yoing at different times.

Almost done with my online work training, next week will be the start of some good GAL. Softball season is right around the corner. I'm wanting to join a basketball league too. Plus I have a good share of people that I was reconnecting with in the last 9-10 months that I can text and get together with and a few people that I've met through them. And I'm really wanting to get out and travel more, take the boat down to Florida and hit some beaches and go fishing. I wish I could make some of you guys a drink and relax sometime, I feel like that'd be a good time.


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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Hey ovrrnbw,

It's all figuratively speaking...

I didn't want to say one step forward, then two back because that slowly puts you going in the other direction(unless this describes it better with each attempt making it that much harder, putting more distance between you and your goals).

Yoyo... here, you're at a point, but you take steps back and then try to get back to where you previously were. Then you go back and now you don't see the traction or forward progress. Even if you do make progress its down the same road you been before, catching up to back where you were.

LIke going to MC, after going can either of you say it was really productive for either of you? IF not, then there is no forward progress right? Both of you could keep going but there has to be some sort of benefits from it or what's the point. I say that loosely because I haven't gone to any counseling. I do know my W mentioned it, but I also feel like she said it to reel me back in to see if I would be interested in her if she said she would make effort. Yeah, that's a good one. Get what I mean?

I like how you are challenging her comments. Don't let her try to get away with that. Maybe next time you beat her to the punch. instead of you saying yes this and that happened but YOU ____, you can say something like I know it wasn't perfect to begin with and I chose to _____. Except its about you and your positive choices to do the right thing. OR... what does your W mean by in the beginning it was bad. Has all of that been addressed and can it die somewhere? Did the MC address that?

I don't think your sitch is a weird one, I remember reading it in the beginning and know no one thinks its cheating. Her parents are trying to help her cover up. I know I may be missing pieces of the story though.

You want the MC to know about the back and forth between you and OM I take it?

How can you work with MC to break through to W?

Do you want MC to be on your side and find some way for W to see the error of her ways? Do you really think W will see that from another person? MC should help you two to connect and establish a bond so you two can break through to each other. ( I don't think taking sides will work, she may run or quit if she senses it coming)

I just wonder if there are better ways to the approach for you. I read somewhere and I don't want to mix this up with trying to strategize but I've seen it used in a positive way, you have to play their game. I think a highly experienced DB'er would know the pitfall, traps, and common mistakes and know what to avoid so it doesn't leave to speculation on anyone's part. What I'm saying is that when you act or say something can you predict the outcome? Can you predict how that would make her feel? Do you know what you want her to feel? Let's say your wife is "trying" to come clean in her own way before really admitting to anything. She's taking the first steps in her own way, but she sees you squirming over there and then worse you blurt out something against her. What do you think she will do after that? i'd be inclined to ball up and say nvm, this isn't worth it. I'm alrdy dealing with guilt and this is hard and he's making it worse. just saying... now if you think she is playing around and is putting in half ass effort just to say she tried, let her. don't interrupt. let the MC take over that. I think same rules apply to not make them say or feel that you are the reason it didn't work.

Be patient, be loving, use that attracting with honey stuff ppl talk about. Can you ever put the pain aside and talk to her to see what she needs or wants or are you dealing with someone who doesn't know? If so, what is the point of MC or trying for recon atm? this is not a question so that you don't go. just to think about. what are you expecting or needing to get out of it, and if you don't? Do you look at the MC or do you look at your wants/needs to make sure they are right first? It's like when people are asked why they are wanting to initiate D, people here want to make sure they are in the right mind before doing anything like that.

Do you consider this a lapse and how does DB handle lapses lovingly?


all the above is under a certain context of lovingly wanting to recon with honest and open communication, not being afraid and knowing when to take action for the betterment of the relationship and not based off emotion, no blame game, no siding or wanting to use MC to validate your own feelings. Its to build the bridge between W and you.

If you can not control your emotions of resentment, you're going to be blinded by your emotion. Some little effort of hers may not go recognized. Once you fail to do that, you will fail to see other small steps. You will fail to see her building her side of the bridge to you. Separation will not be for her, but to also help you to clear your mind of that. Maybe to really miss her and do work on yourself to put your own selfish emotions aside. I challenge you to do that now because I'd probably do anything to be in front of a MC with my W now. By that I mean anything as for changing my own self and most of it is emotional control. I WOULD NOT BE in front of MC if wife was not genuine.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
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BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
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Adam, thanks for commenting. I'm a little confused with everything you posted. I think W needs to admit that the affair was wrong. Who would agree to marriage if seeing other people is OK? And W doesn't think my mom/sister should be mad at her for seeing OM. That's probably the biggest two obstacles.

Lately, I'm just feeling dead. Like I need to get out and do something to be alive. Maybe that means leaving W at home to go do stuff. And I just feel like W is just so lost right now. I need some more time to clear my head and take time to enjoy life.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Adam, thanks for commenting. I'm a little confused with everything you posted. I think W needs to admit that the affair was wrong. Who would agree to marriage if seeing other people is OK? And W doesn't think my mom/sister should be mad at her for seeing OM. That's probably the biggest two obstacles.

Lately, I'm just feeling dead. Like I need to get out and do something to be alive. Maybe that means leaving W at home to go do stuff. And I just feel like W is just so lost right now. I need some more time to clear my head and take time to enjoy life.


If you were back at square one, would those be obstacles for you? Or would you live your life and let things fall where they do?

How did it progress without the first step?

Sorry if I made it confusing.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

Lately, I'm just feeling dead. Like I need to get out and do something to be alive. Maybe that means leaving W at home to go do stuff. And I just feel like W is just so lost right now. I need some more time to clear my head and take time to enjoy life.


(((Ovr))) I am sorry. It sounds as if you are feeling depressed. It makes complete sense given the circumstances. I have felt this way so many times in the last 4 years. Having our S back in the M does not translate into things being better or easier. When we are newly BD'd we are in a crisis mode, desperate and grasping for straws. We try and follow the rules and take the advice just to get through each day. After times goes on, and especially if they come back, the dull ache of a new reality can set in and feel draining and depressing. Sure, she is there. But you know in your heart she is not there in the way you want her to be or in the way you would need her to be to start piecing the M. So perhaps you feel depressed and stuck.

Going out and GAL may help on a day to day basis. Sometimes it's nice to just escape and create some enjoyment. I think that's good. In terms of healing the wound, it is putting a bandaid on a very deep cut. Not sure that will solve anything in the long run. It is also okay to not always being in solve-it mode. Sometimes we need to give ourselves permission to just live, and simply be, without having to accomplish goals or get things done. That will also offer it's own clarity.

Take care of yourself,
Blu


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Not running away this time. I am just bored. Gonna get out and get busy. MC last night, WW is still lost.

We spent 30 minutes talking about a small argument last weekend where I immediately corrected WW on something. It aggravated her. So she came and fired right back at me, and I got offended by her. Both parties hurt, problem not solved, but we both let it got. The problem is that this is easily preventable and was the type of argument we used to have that would spiral out of control. So I need to 180 here. MC had great advice, but I'm not sure that WW understood it.

WW used the word "separation" in MC. I asked when we were separated. She couldn't answer without a long winded list of excuses. We argued about that. I need to work on my detachment bc my reaction was way too emotional. In this convo, W said she doesn't care about my feelings while crying and being mad. W says her IC says it's not an affair too. Ya, OK.

WW complained about my attitude a couple weeks ago when we were snowplowing for FIL. I left work about 1 pm, went straight home, took 6.5 hours to get to lot we were plowing, and then spent 24 more hours on the clock. I was dreading it the whole time, and had all my new job stress hanging over me. But W needs me to drop everything and help her and her lying parents and apparently thank them for it too. But the attitude still needs improvement, or maybe I just say no I can't help next time.

W says she wants me to be selfless and described herself that way. I pointed out that 10 minutes ago she told me she doesn't care about my feelings.

W is all over the place, she needs more time and space, and so do I.

Anyways, I'm not going to let any of this stuff keep my down. I have plenty of things to do plus some new activities I'm thinking about. Maybe some boxing and MMA classes/gyms. I think it'd be good for me to hit someone and be hit.

Goals are to 180 on attitude and behavior and work harder to make those lasting, and also to detach further.

Also, if anyone connected with Did on IG feel free to find me on his friends list. It's kinda cool.


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Over I feel for you

The part about one word emotionally spinning things out of control

And both sides escalating

I have been guilty of that many times

For many years

It became sadly predictable

So fixing it has been one of my 180s



My advice

Stay as cool and unemotional as possible

Even if she pushes one of your emotional buttons

“He was just a friend”

And you feel like your temp is rising

Stay engaged and just listen to her

If that is not possible

Excuse yourself for a moment

And go outside and scream or something

When you are back to your cool self

Feel free to re engage



Feel free to practice this when with others too

Not just your wife

Who wants to be a man controlled by his emotions

Who makes mountains out of molehills

Not Over

You want to be unflappable

Able to handle any situation

Cool calm and collected

Always in control

Be that Over


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
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How would one find others amongst a long friend list tho?

Ill be back later for a more proper post...

Blu

Last edited by BluWave; 02/01/19 01:27 AM.

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Yes, Did is quite popular and that would be hard! Look for @cashfiveo

Gordie, great advice. I've been reading lots of old posts and sitches and an old catchphrase is "cool, calm, collected". Like 007 right? Why would I give others power over me and let them pull my strings? I am going to fix this.


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Read a great Bruce Lee quote, and it reminded me of this mindset I had 10 or 12 years ago.

"You will continue to suffer if you have an emotional reaction to everything that is said to you. True power is sitting back and observing everything with logic. If words can control you that means everyone else can control you. Breathe and allow things to pass".

Weekend was OK. Friday W is a little drunk and got emotional about our whole R. I listened to her. Eventually she was mad that I wasn't going over to comfort her, so I did go to her. Long story short, she doesn't want to live but she says she's not going to do anything harmful to herself.

Saturday she finally said the affair was wrong. Not sure how we got into this convo, but she is ingrained in her lies and the stories she's told since almost a year ago and when that happens it almost seems as if the lies are true. I was scared during the convo, but decided not to let that rule me. I read an old post from Coach saying FEAR stands for false evidence appearing real so I told W I can't be with someone who thinks it's every OK to lie to me or to get involved with another person while married. The bad part was I hung around her too long and did let my temper win a few times.

Sunday went fine. I was making plans with a friend and W decided to do the same until my plans fell through, and she said she wasn't going to see her friend if I wasn't going to see mine. Codependent tendencies maybe...


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OVER

Nice quote

Good job at doing better

Controlling emotions and reactions is not easy

And you will not change OVER night

You will get better OVER time

My advice is to slow things down

You are still very hurt and emotional

And justifiably so

For now

Focus more on listening than talking

Sometimes it is okay to say nothing unless asked

And when asked

Give a healthy pause

And really think before you speak

Look before you leap

Do I really want to say this

Do I really want to say this now

Can I say this without getting emotional

Cool calm collected

Yes James Bond

Not Doctor Spock


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HI Ovrrnbw, your updates sound about as to be expected at this time. It's a tough place to be in because you know the situation hasn't been fully corrected and yet you have a wife who is present and who is willing to go to counseling and semi-admits to her mistakes but not fully. Perhaps things will just keep going as they are until either you or your wife are finally compelled to make a bigger change. Sounds like you're thinking and you're able to keep re-calibrating your thoughts. I'm sure eventually you'll figure this out and life will be good again. You've been a great help to everyone else here!

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Ovr, I love the quote.

Hold strong, buddy. You got this. Keep that firm boundary around yourself! You don't need to be in a codependent relationship anymore. You can make that choice and say no more. Remember it's not your job to comfort her or clean up her messes. And she will respect you more if you don't rescue her. You are strong on your own 2 feet.

No more mr nice guy!

Blu


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My W wanted to talk about going back to a joint checking account. She says it's not fair that I make more money than her. OK.

But she hasn't been wearing her ring for several days the last 2 weeks. She says it doesn't feel like a real marriage bc of all the crap, but mainly bc how I treated her. And I saw today she has snap chat again so I told that makes me mad bc she said she'd get rid of it to help rebuild trust. Those were 2 of my boundaries when she came back again on Christmas. So I got out of bed and told her I can't comfort her anymore. So tired of this game.

She wants a full commitment from me without a full commitment from her.

I'm going out with friends tonight.

Not really emotionally wound up anymore. I'm about out of gas for this woman. And if we get divorced I don't even care b/c I'm going to be making good money, I'm good looking, in better shape that 99% of men my age. I can find someone and I have learned so much about who I am and what I want that I know I can do better than this crap.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
And I saw today she has snap chat again so I told that makes me mad bc she said she'd get rid of it to help rebuild trust. Those were 2 of my boundaries when she came back again on Christmas. So I got out of bed and told her I can't comfort her anymore. So tired of this game.


Violating your boundary is why you are mad, not because she has snap chat. Perhaps stating that violating boundaries that you set is unacceptable and then getting up and leaving. This may help her understand that failure to respect your boundaries(no matter what they are) will have undesired consequences, vice just the act of having snap chat will have negative consequences.

I am reading a book on being co dependent no more, it has really good stuff about emotional detachment and boundaries. It's helping identify behaviors I do that caused me to be dependent upon my W for everything emotional or social. It's good stuff.

Keep a level head brother.


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hey ovr,

sorry to hear she is still playing those games. Get out and enjoy life. You have a lot going for you. Be careful drinking though, just saying. Hope to hear some good things about you and nothing about her for a while. What kind of stuff can you get into this weekend for fun?


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Hi Ovrrnbw,

You can definitely do better! That's outrageous to hear she wants back on the joint account. You've given her so many chances but she just doesn't get it. It's too bad because if you do get divorced she'll realize too late how generous you were with her. Like a lot of folks have written she'll respect you more if you enforce these boundaries and it'll help set the stage for whatever happens in the future, so keeping her off the account would be a good move on your part. That's also good to hear you plan to pursue separate interests and you have the confidence in yourself to know you'll make it no matter what. I think you have a bright future ahead.

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Hey buddy,

I saw your post saying you going to cook tonight.

We all want to hear of this big fancy early valentines feast you are going to make us smile


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LB, that's right. She told me one thing and did another. I guess snapchat was more important than her marriage, and I told her that her actions speak for themselves. I'll look for that book, but I'm trying to not involve my emotions much. Hell, every time I kissed her in the last month I was thinking this could be the last time I kiss her or hear her tell me something.

Adam, I went to a friend's house, made food, then out to a small live music venue and met a couple gals he knew. Just hung out and had a few beers. Last night we made a from scratch red sauce and pizzaria style garlic cheese bread. My friend and are big into fine spirits and cocktails so we made some old fashioneds which is basically our go to. I did make a new cocktail Friday called a tigre blanco. Not sure what part of Tejas you're from but I enjoy Mexican and TexMex and Texas style cooking. Such a big, cool area. For V-day, I'll prolly get out of the house. If all we were well I'd reverse sear a 2 - 2.5lb herb encrusted tomahawk ribeye for us with steamed asparagus, mushroom risotto, and fresh bread. I have a few bottles of red that would pair well and I am fine of a minimum 1 hour breathe before drinking. That's cocktail time. Donuts for dessert.

Nicole, no reason to combine finances again. That's a big step. She cant even take the small steps for me.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
LB, that's right. She told me one thing and did another. I guess snapchat was more important than her marriage, and I told her that her actions speak for themselves. I'll look for that book, but I'm trying to not involve my emotions much. Hell, every time I kissed her in the last month I was thinking this could be the last time I kiss her or hear her tell me something.


Yep she violates boundaries and until she stops nothing will likely improve. That book has been good for me as it is not about being emotional or trying to fix your R; rather it’s about how to be able to step back and take stock of yourself and see what it is that makes you happy. I derived most of all of my happiness and self worth from my R, and it devastated me at BD because I really have nothing to fall back upon. I am finding it useful to identify behaviors that I want vice whati think others want and how to not react emotionally to others needs all the time. Taking care of yourself first.

You and I would get along in our cooking habits...brined Pork tenderloin seared in cast iron and finished in the oven, Brussels sprouts, Parmesan risotto, a nice Chardonnay; blackberry cobbler with home made vanilla ice cream for dessert is my easy go to dinner for special occasions.



Last edited by LB55; 02/10/19 05:44 PM.

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Well I had it out with W this afternoon. She brought up divorce again. We both yelled at each other. We both got sad. We hugged. We talked. All anti DB stuff. She says I punished her by cancelling our plans yesterday to go hang out with my friend. W says that she told me if I cancelled our plans it would be to punish her and that she's out if I'm punishing her. Well she stepped over the line, why do I have to be put in that position? I'm not patient enough she says. She was patient for years (which is true).

I told her I love her and want her to be my wife and we are in the best spot we've been in to deal with everything but if this one mistake means divorce then I won't try to stop her. She cried more.

I'm feeling hopeless. Like this isn't going to work. Why is she pushing me so hard?

LB that meal sounds good man. I found some huge blackberry bushes and made lots of cobbler. I love summertime, blackberries, tomatoes, warm water, warm air, long days, hot nights. Can't wait.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Well I had it out with W this afternoon. She brought up divorce again. We both yelled at each other. We both got sad. We hugged. We talked. All anti DB stuff. She says I punished her by cancelling our plans yesterday to go hang out with my friend. W says that she told me if I cancelled our plans it would be to punish her and that she's out if I'm punishing her. Well she stepped over the line, why do I have to be put in that position? I'm not patient enough she says. She was patient for years (which is true).

I told her I love her and want her to be my wife and we are in the best spot we've been in to deal with everything but if this one mistake means divorce then I won't try to stop her. She cried more.

I'm feeling hopeless. Like this isn't going to work. Why is she pushing me so hard?

LB that meal sounds good man. I found some huge blackberry bushes and made lots of cobbler. I love summertime, blackberries, tomatoes, warm water, warm air, long days, hot nights. Can't wait.


ovrrnbw,

I read you giving great advice to others, and then see you making mistakes that go against your own advice. I didn't have a WW wife, so I'm not an expert on these things. However, the advice given to others and by you is to never lose your temper, set boundaries and stick to them, detach, don't engage in R talks, etc. Stay strong. I'm about the worst person to get advice from. I was divorced less than 4 months after BD--despite sticking to DB tactics. I chalk it up to sometimes there's just nothing you can do. I do feel I'm at a better place than most because I did stick to DB tactics--even though my marriage is over. GAL, 180, detach. Do it. Then, do it some more. Do it until you make it--with or without your wife.

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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Well I had it out with W this afternoon. She brought up divorce again. We both yelled at each other. We both got sad. We hugged. We talked. All anti DB stuff. She says I punished her by cancelling our plans yesterday to go hang out with my friend. W says that she told me if I cancelled our plans it would be to punish her and that she's out if I'm punishing her. Well she stepped over the line, why do I have to be put in that position? I'm not patient enough she says. She was patient for years (which is true).


She is welcome to her opinion. Did you do it to punish her? Think about your reasons for doing what you did. If you can honestly say you aren't punishing her, then I think you can have a clear conscience. Her ultimatums should not cause you to yield. One person always yielding leads to resentment of the other. "do what I want or I am out" sounds like an ultimatum to me. She is assuming you did cancel to punish her. Again, did you? Examine yourself and you will find some answers.


Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I'm feeling hopeless. Like this isn't going to work. Why is she pushing me so hard?


It really tough and frustrating. There is always hope, hope for you! She is pushing you because you are reacting to it. Stop the results based analysis. You don't control her nor the outcome of her decisions. My 2 cents. Emotional detachment is about not reacting inappropriately to her outburst and actions. It's hard, and we all have to work each day to remember how and to improve. Get back on your feet and don't make the same mistake next time! A focus area for me in all my relationships(not just my W) is to stop needing to have the last word. Whether it's a text, a call, an email, etc, I try to focus on ending the conversation just before the other person, and letting them say goodbye, or to not reply to a text that doesn't require a reply. Helps me let go of my control of them and the conversation. It's getting easier and my life hasn't changed significantly one way or the other because of it.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
LB that meal sounds good man. I found some huge blackberry bushes and made lots of cobbler. I love summertime, blackberries, tomatoes, warm water, warm air, long days, hot nights. Can't wait.


As did yours! I love summertime. Salmon season in the northwest, beautiful weather, blackberries everywhere!


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Harvey, it's been a while since I've addressed this and I don't expect everyone to go back and read my day 1 posts. I was a world class jerk to her. I'd yell at her for leaving a purse out. I left her at the Dr's office after lasik b/c it was taking to long and I didn't clear my schedule for the day. That event makes me want to puke still. I really do, and did, love this woman and I really reduced her to nothing at times. She had to become a small, pliable person in order to be under the same roof as me.

She didn't say things the right way, she didn't cook things the right way, nothing was ever good enough. Horrible way to live. I know because that's how it was for me growing up. She told me she couldn't take it, she asked me to go to counseling, she did stay tough for some time but she didn't know how to handle someone from a screwed up home like me. And when she couldn't take it anymore she started searching for OM.

LB, I didn't do it to punish her. I didn't know what the hell to actually do. But she put that ultimatum out there and I chose poorly in her opinion. She agreed to get rid of the snapchat app and wear her ring. She didn't hold up her end of it.


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Well she is serious now about divorce. Says me cancelling plans with her after finding out what she was doing Saturday was me punishing her. I told her I didn't do it to punish her but she is adamant that it was a punishment so I just validated that. I talked to her on the phone for way too long this morning. She wants to know if I'm going to "dodge her" and not be home to discuss divorce stuff. I told her today if she wants a divorce then I don't have to talk to her ever again.

I think I'm going to look for an extended stay hotel at least for now. I'm just all messed up over this. She doesn't care that she crossed my boundary b/c she was so patient with me.

And I need her signature on the lease for my office. Why didn't I get that Friday. God I don't know what to do there either.


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And now she keeps calling. I don't know what to do right now. This [censored].


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Well she is serious now about divorce. Says me cancelling plans with her after finding out what she was doing Saturday was me punishing her.


Not sure she was ever really back in the M, doesn't really sound like it. She quit wearing her ring 2 weeks ago, and she got back on Snapchat, and because you got angry about the Snapchat thing she says it's over now. Here's the thing O, she KNEW this would be your reaction. She KNEW it was a boundary she shouldn't cross. But she chose to anyway, and why? I suspect it was because she knew you would react this way and that would open the door for her to punch the D card again and blame you for it. I'm not buying it, I think this is all part of her plan to escape.

At least you know what to do. Pull back, give her time and space, detach.

Very sorry you're going through this again so soon. Do give yourself a high five for not setting up a joint account with her though, because she would be busy draining it right now.


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Hey Ovr,

So sorry to hear how things are right now.

AS said it better than I could.

My W uses the term "the last straw" so anything I do she doesn't agree with will be the last straw.

I know I am at fault for some failings but damn that is a crazy way to look at a marriage as if anything I do will give her reason to give up, to run to OM, to blame it all on me.

We don't deserve to live like that. No matter how much we give for them to take , they will not see it. Not like this.

IMO, just from observing behavior here, two things hold LBS back and that's guilt and insecurities. Those two things cause us to hold on for way too long.


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Hi Ovrrnbw,

That's so mean of her. It's totally ok to just feel terrible for a while because your situation is hard either way. If you give in to her it's like giving her the green light to keep manipulating you and taking advantage of you. If you don't give in she says she wants a divorce and tries to make you miserable. You know throughout all this that your wife is emotionally unstable. If you move out for a while and let her calm down she'll probably back off from the divorce talk but you'll still have to navigate a way forward. For your lease could you explain that you need another week or two? You're smart and if you sit and think rationally after regaining your composure it may be easier to weigh your pros and cons. No matter what you know that you have many supporters here who are happy to talk and listen any time.

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Originally Posted by NicoleR
Hi Ovrrnbw,

It's totally ok to just feel terrible for a while because your situation is hard either way. If you give in to her it's like giving her the green light to keep manipulating you and taking advantage of you. If you don't give in she says she wants a divorce and tries to make you miserable.


Hey Ovr,

If it makes you feel any better, I’m here a bit myself.

My W wants to know what I’m feeling / thinking about all this. I’m keeping it pretty tight-lipped (except here on the forums), and doing my best to validate. She doesn’t like it, though—especially with her calling me fake, among other things.

We had a discussion yesterday where she talked about how she never really wanted a D, she just wanted to separate for a little while, and potentially work on reconciliation—but because of especially how I’ve been acting the last couple of months (since starting DB’ing more intentionally), she claims that I’m pushing her (and any hope of recon) further away, and that she doesn’t want to come back.

She also wants me to agree to her parenting plan, or else she will escalate (file for divorce, leave / take the kids, etc. I won’t get into specifics here; if you want you can check my thread / sitch).


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Ok, time to calm down a bit. I can't let her words or choices control my feelings. And what am I doing believing what she says anyways? Time to be calm and strong when she blames me for everything and takes zero responsibility. I can state my position, and if she wants to be childish, make excuses, or tell stories I can just disengage calmly. And for these last 6 weeks, almost every time we kissed or hugged I knew it could be the last. Detach moreeeeee!!!!

One morning, W wants to combine finances. That afternoon, it's divorce time!

This is not like I was being rude or cruel to her over nothing. In fact I wasn't even rude about it other than cancelling plans with her. Her favorite phrase is "why are we here?" This is how she says everything is my fault. But that didn't apply to her crossing the line on the snapchat deal. Emotions have a funny way of existing with logic, yet both are important.

After talking to her this AM on the phone, we are up to 7 calls, 8 texts, 1 voicemail, and 1 email. I haven't gotten back to her yet. She wanted me to stop b/c she knew via the GPS app I was by her work but the overall theme of her comms is she's hurting very badly, she doesn't know what to do, me ignoring her is bad, I always hurt her. In WAS terms, "I'm leaving you but I need you to be there for me while I do."

I told her on the phone this AM that if she files for D I will never talk to her again. I don't have to. But that's unfair in her mind. Well that's just how I roll, sugar.

I seriously hope she doesn't hurt herself too b/c she is getting out there a bit.


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Well the drama escalated last night. I was expecting my sister to show up at my office to hang out and get food. I hear the back door open, I walk around the corner, there's W. I was not expecting her.

My sister showed up about 10 minutes later and W is freaking about b/c she can't see my sister. W later got mad that I told my sister that W was there. Bizarro. So W talked a little, she's hurt, doesn't think I care, blah blah blah. Cares about but doesn't know if we're good together. Well, duh. If we were good together would we be in this sitch? We've all heard it a million times. She's not ready to accept that she has hurt anyone. Oh well, you can't force defensive people to suddenly change or to look at themselves. So I'm going to stop.

Detachment. I am going to start working on better detachment. I am being too cold. Cold means she's affecting me, whereas me being steady and even keeled is me in control of me. W and I need some major change.

Got home from hanging out with my sister, W is kinda mad that I ate without her. She thought I might come home and eat something with her and wants to make me feel bad about it. I can't really win with W right now. W told me she is going to stay the night with a friend Tues night. Hhhmm... Yea I dunno. We'll see. We still have our locations shared via an app, maybe she's being honest. Time will tell.

Going to get busy, run more, build some stuff, get out with buddies, maybe hunt some this weekend. The thing is, W is going to be mad at me for planning stuff without her, but I have zero clue what her plans are. And she may decide she doesn't want to hang out with me. Very annoying, I will just makes my own plans.


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Ovr,

Yup you two need time away from each other to decompress.

She needs to see you are not the source of all her problems.

Her putting all those expectations on you is wrong, wth.... angry for not eating with her?

Sounds like you have so many options. The hunting alone right there... go do it buddy. Let me know what you catch.


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Hello everyone, just a little update. I like updating my thread b/c it is written record of things, it helps me to remember and helps me to learn. Thanks MWD smile.

Anyways, things slowed down a little last week. W went to her friends apt last Tuesday night. I don't know if she went back for OM or not, truly. But she is at home every night since. This is obviously different than before when she was never home, but she's not two feet back in the marriage either. I can't control that, so no sweat here. Wed morning she called a bunch, I didn't feel like answering b/c she wasn't at home Tues night. Finally I do, she has a flat tire and wants me to come change it. Funny how she didn't want to act like a wife Tues night, but Wed morning it made a lot more sense...Of course me changing the tire didn't come without some BS about how her and her dad thought I may not come do it. The two of them should be together, good lord. I won't even get started about how we have insurance that covers this kind of thing.

Wed night, she wants to make plans for St. Valentine's Day. OK, we went to sushi. Friday I didn't go to the office with the snow we were supposed to get. Went to town to get some groceries and what not, W was throwing a fit b/c she wanted to go out to lunch. Money is tight for her right now, so she wanted me to pay too. Although money is only tight for her b/c she's spending a lot and has access to $0 of mine. W was being a major B Friday afternoon, I didn't want to engage and told her and showed her. Finally I looked her in the eye and said you are being a "stinking B". That's the PG version anyways. W changes her tune after a minute, says sorry, asks for patience and reminds me how she was always patient with me. I told W how it's different b/c even when I was hurting her, I was always committed to her. W didn't like this so much, oh well.

Wednesday I met with my priest, and we discussed the possibility of me filing for divorce and/or separation. That felt good to talk about further.

The rest of the evening and weekend went fairly well. We watched movies and went bowling, I made chicken stock and chicken and dumplins. I love fires and comfort food when there's snow on the ground. I'll be honest, I'm a little afraid to leave W behind on a weekend night and go GAL.

I'm in this weird spot where my W's affair seems over but she's not ready to recommit to the MR. Of course, I didn't make her work very hard to get me back. That's my fault. But I can say that I am getting tired of her crap, this situation, and feeling better about the prospects of being without her long term. I am so much stronger, smarter, wiser than I was a year ago. I think about the 1 year mark, it's coming up soon. I think about Steve's old signature and timeline. I think about what I want for myself, and if I can ever really trust this woman.

Thanks for reading everyone, and thank you for commenting as well, it means a lot.


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It´s all about time Ovr. Time to detach, time to heal, time to let anger go out and get into clear thoughts. W needs time too. She should be working on herself. Is she?

You have traveled a long road man. You know where you are standing. I tend to defend WAS positions because of my criminal record... so I´m asking you what do you want from now on? Rebuilding bridges to a new MR takes patience. A lot of patience...you both need to be working on the same frequency.

So time, patience and eyes wide open Ovr.

My best wishes for both of you.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
W went to her friends apt last Tuesday night. I don't know if she went back for OM or not, truly. But she is at home every night since.


Honestly O, I don't read anything here that makes me think she's anything other than a WAS still. You think she may have seen OM as recently as a week ago, she doesn't call unless she needs her tire changed and then she's blowing up your phone AND giving you attitude about it, wants to go to lunch only if it means a free meal for her, treats you like crap, etc. etc.

Quote
I'll be honest, I'm a little afraid to leave W behind on a weekend night and go GAL.


Serious question- why?

Quote
I'm in this weird spot where my W's affair seems over but she's not ready to recommit to the MR.


Not weird at all. Her A may be over but you are still Plan B and will remain so until you refuse to be it anymore. I suspect she's just biding her time until another OM comes along.

Quote
But I can say that I am getting tired of her crap, this situation, and feeling better about the prospects of being without her long term.


Good! So detach, get out, GAL, leave her to her mess!


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Ovrrnbw,

You have endured a lot. This roller coaster ride doesn't seem to end! I guess this is what they call a toxic / unhealthy relationship dynamic. The affair was obviously the worst but apparently it was a symptom of a deeper problem with your wife and how the two of you enable one another's negative behavior. I'm on your side though and even if you were too critical in the past or made any mistakes you never cheated on her. Any weak points that you have can easily be improved but her wild affair, unpredictability, and unwillingness to stop and reflect on herself is the real problem here. It's much harder in real life when you're bonded with your wife to move forward with a separation or a divorce. If I were you, I'd find a reason to travel elsewhere for the maximum amount of time possible. Does your employer allow you to work remotely? Or would you be able to take vacation or an unpaid leave-of-absence? Do you have a cousin living somewhere else who keeps begging you to visit or a conference you need to attend? I think a good two weeks of you being gone for a legitimate reason unrelated to marriage problems would be a great solution right now. You could refresh yourself and she'd have some quiet time to calm down. That's what I'd be considering, but if that's not possible then I agree with everything else that you're doing and asking the question of whether you can ever trust her again.

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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Hello everyone, just a little update. I like updating my thread b/c it is written record of things, it helps me to remember and helps me to learn. Thanks MWD smile.

Anyways, things slowed down a little last week. W went to her friends apt last Tuesday night. I don't know if she went back for OM or not, truly. But she is at home every night since. This is obviously different than before when she was never home, but she's not two feet back in the marriage either. I can't control that, so no sweat here. Wed morning she called a bunch, I didn't feel like answering b/c she wasn't at home Tues night. Finally I do, she has a flat tire and wants me to come change it. Funny how she didn't want to act like a wife Tues night, but Wed morning it made a lot more sense...Of course me changing the tire didn't come without some BS about how her and her dad thought I may not come do it. The two of them should be together, good lord. I won't even get started about how we have insurance that covers this kind of thing.

Wed night, she wants to make plans for St. Valentine's Day. OK, we went to sushi. Friday I didn't go to the office with the snow we were supposed to get. Went to town to get some groceries and what not, W was throwing a fit b/c she wanted to go out to lunch. Money is tight for her right now, so she wanted me to pay too. Although money is only tight for her b/c she's spending a lot and has access to $0 of mine. W was being a major B Friday afternoon, I didn't want to engage and told her and showed her. Finally I looked her in the eye and said you are being a "stinking B". That's the PG version anyways. W changes her tune after a minute, says sorry, asks for patience and reminds me how she was always patient with me. I told W how it's different b/c even when I was hurting her, I was always committed to her. W didn't like this so much, oh well.

Wednesday I met with my priest, and we discussed the possibility of me filing for divorce and/or separation. That felt good to talk about further.

The rest of the evening and weekend went fairly well. We watched movies and went bowling, I made chicken stock and chicken and dumplins. I love fires and comfort food when there's snow on the ground. I'll be honest, I'm a little afraid to leave W behind on a weekend night and go GAL.

I'm in this weird spot where my W's affair seems over but she's not ready to recommit to the MR. Of course, I didn't make her work very hard to get me back. That's my fault. But I can say that I am getting tired of her crap, this situation, and feeling better about the prospects of being without her long term. I am so much stronger, smarter, wiser than I was a year ago. I think about the 1 year mark, it's coming up soon. I think about Steve's old signature and timeline. I think about what I want for myself, and if I can ever really trust this woman.

Thanks for reading everyone, and thank you for commenting as well, it means a lot.


ovr, you have to go out and GAL. You've been an awesome contributor here, you give sound advice. But do me ONE favor. For an entire month concentrate on GAL. I mean be busy every single night. Drop your fear of leaving her alone and just go do all kinds of great, fun, enjoyable things. Bowl. Go to the gun range. Test drive new cars. ANYTHING. But for 1 month GAL.

Then report back here on how things are between you and the W. If things aren't better, then by all means continue down the D path. But give this a shot.


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ovrrnbw Offline OP
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Originally Posted by neffer
I´m asking you what do you want from now on? Rebuilding bridges to a new MR takes patience. A lot of patience...you both need to be working on the same frequency.
I guess I want to see her actually working if she wants this. It seems like she is just ho-hum about it all. Do I say this to her? Bring it up in MC? I don't know..

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Serious question- why?
I am worried she'll be upset, mad, or blame me for leaving her or something really stupid. I've always liked going out or over to friend's houses for dinners and/or drinks with friends. And weekend nights feels like the time you spend with your significant other.

Originally Posted by NicoleR
Does your employer allow you to work remotely? Or would you be able to take vacation or an unpaid leave-of-absence?
I can work remotely or take as much vacation as I want and still get paid. I'm switching to self employment/new gig Mar 1. Got the LA trip scheduled for week of 4/8. Have some friends in San Diego too so I may make them take me in for a bit.

Steve, I'm not on the D path. The D path was totally off limits, I'm just thawing out the D path, thinking about it a bit more. But yes, I am afraid of leaving her alone.

Last edited by ovrrnbw; 02/20/19 05:32 PM. Reason: fix

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What we fear most is what end up creating. Your fear is of leaving her alone is that she will cheat or do something she shouldn't? Guess what, and you know this already, your suffocating her will make that more likely than leaving her alone will.

I'd really like to see you GAL like a madman for a month. And then take stock. I think you'd be surprised at the how positive the results would be.


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ovrrnbw Offline OP
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Thanks Steve. I'm going to get out and GAL.

Gonna jot down the notes from MC tonight. Talked about last Friday's argument quite a bit and it seemed like we both learned quite a bit there, that was helpful. I went walking in the door thinking about being cool, thinking things through, and not speaking so freely.

At the end of MC, I brought up wearing our rings and what we're doing there. W says she doesn't feel like we are married, and went on to imply that she feels this way b/c things aren't good between us and that we shouldn't have gotten married. Looking back, I feel dumb for bringing it up. She doesn't have two feet in, why even bother mentioning this?

But just last week, she needed as husband to change a tire, she wants a husband to pay more than half of the bills so she can pay less...but she can't be a wife. I'm going to use that to fuel my detachment and GAL efforts.


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Hi Ovrrnbw, your situation is so complicated! I think that's a great idea to go out and do stuff on your own. Just stepping out of this boiler room situation should help a lot. On the other hand this already been going on for almost a year so at some point, someday (maybe in another year?) I'm sure that you'll reach a point where you've had enough or your wife will reach a point where she's ready to take this marriage seriously. I hope something happens sooner or later because I know all too well from my own experience how draining it is to stay in a broken marriage for years and years.

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Over

Just catching up

I understand she is driving you nuts

She wants all the benefits of a H

But none of the obligations of a W

It breaks your heart

She is at worst taking advantage of you

And at best undecided

And you do not know what to do

I suggest you take a step back

Maybe go on a trip with a buddy

Or by yourself

You don’t have to tell her anything

But my guess is you will

So just say

I need some time by myself

And then when you are by yourself

Acknowledge your feelings

Let them out

Scream and shout

Cry

Be silent

Do whatever you need to do for you

But also dig deep into your beliefs

Feelings change

Beliefs are who you are at your core

And that does not change

Do not make decisions based upon your feelings

Make them based upon your beliefs

I support you man

I have been where you are

The answer is within you


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I know this is a D busting site. But this woman is not trying. She uses you when she needs you and shows up at MC but does nothing to make the M better. She doesn't feel like she is married? Well, I am glad you brought up the rings. It gave you insight. See, I see those rings as something you wear even when things are bad, they show commitment to making it work. YOu don't just keep your rings on when things are good. The rings symbolize a marriage that she is supposedly working on. They don't just signify a good marriage.

You are both young, haven't had kids together. I would hate t see you fight for your M for so long without her fighting too. Marriage should be honored even without kids. But let's be real often kids push us a little harder to make it work. Your W isn't pushing very hard. I truly thinks she just wants things the way she wants them and expects you to give them to her that way.
You are also way to focused on her. You admitted to being afraid to GAL. Let her react the way she wants. I see you doing nothing for yourself or your own mental health. It's like you are simply waiting for her to just come around and decide she wants to be your wife. Your going to waste some very good years of your life waiting for that. If you are going to really remain committed to her, you need to commit to yourself.

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Can´t agree more with all that has been posted. You need to keep moving forward. Protect yourself man. Stick to DB, get some more GAL, avoid MR talks, well...all the DB basics. You need to keep fighting Ovr. Stay away from W.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
If you are going to really remain committed to her, you need to commit to yourself.


Originally Posted by Gordie
The answer is within you


You have the strength.


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Hi guys,

thanks for checking in on me. Her statement about wearing her ring was really the impetus for me to start to get out and GAL and let the chips fall where they may. I wanted to be honest about my fears of actually doing my GAL stuff, b/c I knew it felt off. Thanks for setting me straight everyone!

Of course I still have emotional swings about all of this and I am getting better at recognizing and mitigating them. The one year mark is close and of course it pisses me off. Then I think about Nicole, and can't help but think that I'm wasting my time sitting around here hoping my W will change. But anyways I've been using the stop sign technique and others to not dwell on negative thoughts. This all just takes me back to detachment and like Gordie said, acting from my core beliefs, removing the emotions, and being true to myself. I am committed to doing that.

Friday night I went out with 1 friend for dinner and cocktails, which turned into another friend coming out, then meeting up with my sister and her friends. Very fun. W was calling and texting to see when I'd be home. She had been freaking out about me going out since Thursday morning when I told her. I also told her it should only be a couple of hours, but the fun lasted longer, and of course W was outraged Fri night and Saturday morning. My mistake was to comfort her when she was mad about me going out with friends.

Saturday I spent the day recovering. Sunday W and I started the remodel on my office space and should have it wrapped up soon b/c the remodel is only 700 sq ft or so.

Ginger, I really don't see the need to argue with W over the craziness that is her existence right now, but I do wonder if I should just refrain from bringing up her inconsistencies in MC. Or if I should even go to MC. I mean, for all that I know, W may still be in text contact with the OM. I have no transparency set, I let W break the Snapchat boundary. But I'm going to face my fears here, I've been letting those emotions control my decisions for long enough.

I'm thinking about trying hot yoga, inspired by Davide. I've always been a weightlifter so this will be a change for me. Also sports leagues are starting up soon, I'm excited for that as well. And yes, maybe I'm going to get out on some fishing trips - those last all weekend, right? Haha yes they do. And the LA trip is coming up the week of 4/8.

I am also going to commit to some more reading for fun, marriage education, psychological health. Truth be told I'm getting tired of the computer. Thanks for all of your continued support.


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Hey everyone,

just need to write down a few things. We had MC last week, it went ok. W is still far behind me in terms of learning things, and I am trying to be patient in regards to that.

W's family is still too much in our business. I talked to a guy I snowplowed with, who works for FIL's best friend, and he mentioned getting paid on the last snow, which I plowed with them on. I haven't gotten paid yet, but apparently the check is sitting at FIL's house. But he's going to withhold some money for me and W's phone bill. I don't think W has been paying it for a long time. So that's annoying as hell. Then I needed help last week on the office build out and W was up my rear about getting FIL out there to help. FIL comes out, isn't very interested, and takes off. W is mad at me when I told her "I got the impression he didn't want to do it". But he didn't and I know he didn't, so no big deal. In the past he would have been all over this, but the inlaws are W's parents and they want to see me as the problem. Then I called around to find a carpenter to help me, all of whom know FIL. W's uncle called back and agreed quickly to help me. Then FIL tells W to tell me how much to pay him. And while FIL had a good point, it really pissed me off that he wanted to not be involved but still be involved.

I'm getting my office space remodeled and up and running, and that's taking up a lot of my time. The new gig will be great though. Friday was my official first day, I really wanted to go out and celebrate, but then that was kinda not so exciting b/c I have the depressed/MLC/quarter life crisis/wayward wife. We went out to dinner and that was OK. Saturday was busy, had some office work, helped W with some stuff, went out hunting and watched some fights Sat night. Sunday I stayed in all day and cleaned up the house and split firewood. Luckily W was plowing snow with FIL and didn't get home til late Sunday.

Last night she suggested that I should have slept in the other bedroom b/c I went to bed at about 1:30 AM and she had to wake up at 2:30. I was like nope that's why I sleep. I only mention this b/c it is very odd. And then tonight, W gets home and basically goes straight to the bedroom, said she wasn't hungry, then got a plate and went back to the bedroom saying she doesn't feel good.

I need to go read DR again about dealing with the depressed spouse. I need to get out a GAL more. I need to stop tying my happiness to what she is doing. I had a couple ups and downs today, very brief, but I kept telling myself that I need to go do things that make me happy. Tomorrow night I may go try the hot yoga. Thanks for reading.


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ovr buddy, sorry man. I know this isn't easy. And having her parents involved makes it tougher. Your last paragraph is 100% correct. Stop focusing on her and just focus on yourself. Double down on get a life. Keep up the 180s. And definitely keep working on detaching.


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Yes my friend. I’m keeping your last paragraph. You know why.

You keep moving forward. Shining bright.


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W just came home early and had a talk. I was just about to leave for the gym but decided listen since she'd been moping around the house for a week now. She asked if I was happy. Said she isn't happy. Of course, the only way to be happy is to feel madly in love with another person. That is the 1 known cure to depression. Not that she'd ever hear the truth in that coming from me, so I didn't say it.

She said this feels like it's forced. I responded it's a choice, but she still feels like it's forced. I say, "OK, I get that, fine." She's sad and she's doesn't feel good. I just listened and validate here and there. She asks if I care. I said yes. Talk lasted 40 minutes before I finally told her I needed to get going.

Then she calls when I'm barely out of the neighborhood. I thought about not answering, but figured that'd be a little immature since I wasn't on the other line. She said more of the same stuff, and I tried getting off the phone, but she kept going. She was a little more forthcoming on the phone, whereas in person she was tiptoeing around the big scary words. She asked an indirect question about MC, which is at 5 PM tonight. She knows the cancellation policy is 24 hour minimum notice. Then she gets mad at me for "getting mad at her". I told her I'm not mad, just annoyed b/c she already knows the policy.

She asks "Will you be fair?". She was speaking as far as dividing assets, though she refused to be clear. I simply said "Yes". She asked "how do you want to do this?". Well since I don't want a divorce I said "however you want, it's up to you". Then it was boohoo poor her, I act like I don't even care, I'm not even sad, etc.

Anyways, I really don't feel down. I've been through all this crap before, I'm determined to be happy no matter what, and even if she does go file for divorce, what am I losing? Unfortunately we don't have a healthy relationship and haven't for a while. Going out to dinner with my sister and making a Craiglist purchase! Oh boy!


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Ovr,
Sounds like a major temp check on her part and you handled yourself perfectly. You are in a great place with yourself right now and ready to take on anything that comes your way.


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Thanks Ryan.

She called twice right after she knew counseling ended but I didn't answer. She was supposed to be at counseling with me she could have talked to me there right?

How would you guys handle those calls? It is very annoying to deal with.


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Another call this morning. Asks when I can talk. Well we just talked yesterday twice. You could have talked to me at MC. I don't know when I want to talk so I told her I'd let her know. Says I'm dodging her. I actually had an appointment to go to look at some office furniture this morning, for my office. I find it quite ironic that she could say I'm dodging. She can't own a thing she's done, can't figure out her depression, won't try anything positive for herself. I think I need to stand up for myself next time, I didn't this time bc I was in the store standing next to the lady who works there.

Anyways still got plenty of GAL plans but this is aggravating.

I want to send a text telling how to she's being a turd, but I'm sure that would just confirm that she's under my skin.

Anyways Id like to hear advice on how to handle these little interactions.


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Ovr,
My thoughts are not answering as you did is the right move for the general calls throughout the day. It sounds like there is something she feels needs to be discussed and it possibly could have been done in MC or maybe MC wasn't the right place to have that convo. I wouldn't rush but don't put it off too long, propose some times for a talk (much like a business meeting) that work for you and leave it at that.


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Hey Ovr!

I'm just catching back up with your sitch. That's rough, to have to deal with all the vacillating and equivocation from her on such a regular basis. I have only seen in that in the rare moments that W and I sit down to talk and it is difficult enough. Their uncertainty is real, but it is cruelly unfair to us. You'll eventually reach a point when you will prefer to move on rather than reside in that limbo. You can't rush getting there, but it will happen.

In terms of the calls, I don't see the benefit of engaging with her in conversation about the R. She has to work that sh#t out for herself. I would stick to business. For me, a real easy boundary would be to tell the W that I won't discuss the R over the phone and if she goes down that path I will hang up. If she kept calling, I would text and tell her to text back if she has anything urgent she needs to let me know. Getting angry or reacting with emotion is definitely something to avoid. Standing up for oneself is drawing clear boundaries, communicating them,and them calmly sticking to them.

You got this!


W 34 Me 42
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Anyways Id like to hear advice on how to handle these little interactions.


She sounds kind of all over the place and I would tend to "not believe anything she says and only half of what she does" right now. So revert back to your DB'ing- listen and validate. It sounds like that's what you've been doing so that's good. If she accuses you of stonewalling again just say something like "I'm sorry I made you feel that way, but I'm just very busy buying supplies for the office and don't have time to talk right now, but we can talk this evening if you wish" or something like that. When you do talk, if she once again repeats all the same stuff then bite your tongue and just listen and validate. I don't think she's talking to you to get a reaction right now, she's using you as a soundboard. She's kind of talking to herself if that makes sense. That's why she's repeating the same comments, she's not sure how she feels about them and she needs to hear them out loud.


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I’m sorry O. But I think she is dropping another bomb on you. I would prepared for that. It seemed like a matter of time this was going to happen. Because you guys got back together and she did zero work on herself. She’s still the same. And while you have changed, she’s the other half the equation and she’s stayed the same. And we know both parties have to change and want to change. She came back home the very same person.

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Ovr,

How is the office turning out and did you get the furniture? That sounds interesting and how is the new gig going?

I want to echo what AS said. Listen and validate. Be strong and patient, be the rock.


Ovr, I want to say you are really doing well. Keep DB!


H 49 , W 47
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A little update for the last couple of days. Also, thank you all for continuing to help me. I'm very happy about my progress in the last year but I have plenty to keep working on as far as being satisfied with who I am as a person.

I've been getting out getting busy outside of work, but am pretty busy with the office remodel. I followed Davide's lead and went to hot yoga Thursday night. God dang that was hard. I'm going to do it again though. Back in August I stopped weightlifting so much and cut down to 3 days a week b/c I've have been weightlifting for almost 20 years now. I want to try new things. So I've been running more and now I'm going to do some yoga.

After I got home from yoga, she was laying in bed like she has been at all hours for weeks now. I looked at her a couple of times b/c she had such important things to talk about. But she said nothing, so I showered and ate and when I went to bed then she wants to talk. And, of course, she said all the same things she had said the day before. She also added some blame to for the whole situation, using her parents' and her favorite phrase to justify her terrible actions: "How did we get here?". It's their way of saying that it's my fault we are in this spot to begin with and that I need to submit to her will. W pressed further about divorce and splitting assets. I told her it's not that hard, we split the house 50/50, sell the car, and move on. W goes crazy, thinks she is entitled to much more than half of the house b/c her dad gave us free work on the first house and very good pricing on the second house we built. Of course, I funded a lot of the initial costs while my W lived rent and expense free with me while she paid off her student loan. Also her claim is pretty baseless and would get laughed out of court. Now she is threatening to take part of my new business if I don't cave on the house. Greatttttt. So it's time to see a lawyer again, who knows, I may have to pay off the barbarians at the gate. We'll see.

The important talk turned into a fight and I'm sure this is exactly what she wanted. We both got rude and she stormed out of the bedroom. All in all, the real problem came out, and she said she feels like my changes aren't real, that they're just fake to get her back. Our MC had told us to make a list of things each of us needed to feel safe and secure with each other and this prompted W to feel like my changes were not real. My bad behaviors are very similar, though much less in severity, to my dad's bad behaviors. I know if my dad did 180s on his horrible behavior that I would feel like my W feels. So I just told her I get how she could feel like they aren't real. Then I apologized for the mean thing I said to her earlier and went to bed. She slept in the guest bedroom.

Friday morning came around and she initiated yet another talk, though this one was shorter and I had to go anyways so that helped. As I'm leaving she asks for a hug, I say OK, but don't move towards her. Then she says "Well I guess you don't want one". I'm like WTF. So she comes over and gives me an awkward hug that I really didn't want. Then she calls a couple hours later to ask me if I'm doing all the things she knew I was doing: buying paint, buying flooring, etc. So I ended the call quickly. I worked late, got home, showered, and met some friends for drinks.

And here's a very telling issue: W does her mini BD to me on Wednesday, I looked at the car app just now, and went by to OM's house Thursday night for a couple hours. This loser lives at his parent's house at age 30. And the scumbag parents have seen her come and go there forever. I'm sure they had 0 communications at all over the last few weeks, months, etc while she was "trying". Or that those communications had nothing to do with W taking off her ring 4 weeks ago. Totally unrelated. Anyways, it looks like I need to have 0 R talks with her moving forward, it's just a crock of crap to make her feel better about her disgusting BS behavior. I'm still not ready to divorce, but it's not like I have many options. Gonna continue to focus on myself here. I'm gonna go full bore on my GAL, keep up with my IC, read, earn money, figure out my legal situation in the event of divorce.


H 34
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BD 3/12/18
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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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AS, I think you're right about me being the soundboard. She even mentioned a couple weeks back that she has few friends and can't face her parents. She's said the same things over and over, she's not sure of what she thinks, feels, wants. Of course she is super emotional and depressed as well.

Davide, I'm really gonna set and stick to some boundaries. I know this, it's time to do it. Also I tried hot yoga b/c of you. Holy cow the women in the class are quite the pleasant distraction.

Ginger, you were right. It was a mini BD to make her feel better about going to see the OM. And I love your post about how she's not changed. She is still running away from all of that.

Adam, the office is coming along, paint and flooring is next. Then I'll be like Michael Scott.


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That’s why you don’t need to get into MR talks, then get into some kind of WW fight. Just let her be what ever she wants. She’s WW man, forget common sense. You are better than that Ovr.

Keep detaching. Keep DB

Be strong there!


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Over,

Here's a question, how has your position changed in your M since you first came here? How has your W changed?

I don't see much growth. I see that you understand the concepts better, I see you giving advice, but your application for your own sitch has not been good. You have evidence your WW went back by OM house, what is her consequences for doing so? She lied to you, broke your trust, don't respect you.

You'll do a lot of having R and M talks, go to a MC, but where are the actions? When are you going to start respecting yourself, because from what I'm reading, you have no respect for yourself and neither does your W.

I think you should start there. And ignoring her calls and going to sleep on her is not respecting yourself, it's childish.

What actions have you done, that's taught here on this site? Because all I'm seeing is two people with attachment issues, not knowing how to let go or put in the appropriate work to fix their M. And yes, just because you aren't the WS don't mean you aren't to blame for the position you'll are in right now.

If I know someone is doing something wrong and I don't say anything, than I'm complicit. If, I know a person is doing wrong, and I tell them, they are wrong and I continue to allow that wrong and accept that wrong, Im just as much too blame for their actions towards me.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
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Onward and forward

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Joejoe,

I'm obviously not detached. I'm better than I was but as anyone can see I've done a lot of the same things over and over.

Originally Posted by joejoe1
You have evidence your WW went back by OM house, what is her consequences for doing so? She lied to you, broke your trust, don't respect you.
What are my options for consequences? File for divorce or separation right? Am I forgetting any?

Originally Posted by joejoe1
What actions have you done, that's taught here on this site
I was in full LRT mode for a long time, had to go dark a couple of times just to calm down and take some space, I've made new friends, started new activities. I've learned how to listen better, learned why and how to validate feelings. I've stopped pursuing, I've detached to the point where I don't argue or logic with her when she brings up divorce.

Originally Posted by joejoe1
And yes, just because you aren't the WS don't mean you aren't to blame for the position you'll are in right now.
I agree. I've owned all my bad behavior. We probably wouldn't be here if it weren't for me acting so selfish, rude, and overbearing. But maybe we would. That phrase is W's and her parent's way of ignoring her affair. That's why it pisses me off.

I don't want to divorce. I know I'm scared of it. But I'm guessing that's what everyone is saying is that I either have to file or I'm showing her that I accept this type of treatment or marriage.

I have to talk to lawyers this week about it and my priest as well.


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Ovr,


Hmmmm........

I think you are so afraid of the outcome it's stunting your creativity, and trust me I know, you don't want a D. That's why all LBS are here.

Maybe, you pack her sh!t and put it in storage. No more access to Ovr, is an option. No more talking and giving explanations, she know what she is doing is wrong.

The phrase about about her and her parents, listen, it's her parents, stop expecting her parents to change her or to chastise her. You keep going to that as an excuse. Let it go, move past it. PLEASE!!!!!!! You know their stance, so now what.

Gain your respect, what does gaining your respect from your W looks like to you? What are her actions if she was respecting you? Why are your actions if you are holding her accountable?

What can you do different? Try something new. And stop worrying about the outcome and focus on your actions, you can't control outcomes, you can only control your actions. Only your's!!


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
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Joejoe,

I don't know about packing her stuff, but at least it's a creative idea so thank you. I do think limited access is fine, but we're kinda there right now anyways.

The stuff with her parents I'm not sure you understand. I don't speak to her parents and I have no expectations of them except that they'll continue to support, enable, and make up BS for their daughter. The phrase is simply one they helped create and it's annoying.

I have been thinking about what you said, what actions I can take to gain respect or hold her accountable and what I can do different. I don't know yet, but I'm still thinkin about it. I do agree that I'm very concerned over the outcome instead of my actions.

Last night, W tried stealing my pup out of the master bed with me and it turned into a 10 minute ordeal of me telling W to go to bed and that the dog sleeps with me. W brought up that I did say the dog is good for emotional support but I think she was just trying to guilt me into getting her way.


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Ovr,

The reason I mentioned her parents, is because you have a tendency to lump them in with what your W is doing
Your W is a grown woman. She has the ability to make her own decisions. Is it moral for her parents to enable what she is doing, no. But in reality, they are standing by their child. To me that shows you are trying to take some of the blame off of your WW. The blame belongs to your W and it's hers alone. 100% her choices.

This thing with the pup shows so much immaturity, we have been saying that since your very first post. Stop playing the games with her. You both have to grow up. You'll are fighting over a puppy!!

It's so much that both you'll need. Your W is so selfish and her consideration level is at 0. You need to learn how to hold her accountable. And, her accountability/consequences might end up being her losing you.

I have hope for everyone, but I really think you need space away from your W and it has to be your decision to leave. Your W loses hasn't added up enough for her to want to make the decision to choose you.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
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Joejoe,

you're right. My W is a grown woman. She is capable of making her own decision and she is solely responsible for them. My in laws are not anything I should be worrying about or letting bother me.

I did just let her take the pooch. Not worth any big discussions.

Now W wants to go "back to dating". If this is her way of avoiding discussing all of her crap, then it's a no-go. But I also don't really need to discuss her 24/7 either. I'm going to take time to think it through before agreeing. And obviously I've let her off so easy in the past when she'd cross the line and violate a boundary.

She's been bringing up a lot of positives memories from our past, so that is strange. She's been discussing plans for the future, but again we've done that before and she's run back to OM. I'm still meeting with divorce lawyers and still going to discuss divorce/separation with my priest.

Got my office almost 100% done on the remodel. Have to install base trim and reassemble 4 desks then clean it up.

I have the house to myself this weekend! So nice to feel free and do what I want. I'm hoping to have some people of to watch the PPV boxing, but I may have to head into town for some fun. We'll see.


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ovr, what is new in your sitch?


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Thanks for checking in on me Steve.

I've been starting the new gig, things are going well there but are tough b/c I have plenty to learn. Things have been up and down for me. Went to LA and San Diego for 10 days from 4/5 to 4/14 and that was great. W came with me, extended her trip to the whole time. Initially I wasn't excited about that but it turned out that we had some cool adventures. We had a few heavy conversations and I've been less worried about speaking my mind than I have in the past. I don't put all of my pain out there for her, but I'm not afraid to talk.

I don't know why I stayed away from the forums and my own thread for a while other than I was just fatigued. Coming up on my BD anniversary was stressful and I was thinking about filing for divorce and just pulling this tooth. I know I'll always have swings and am getting better at reacting positively to them. In the past year, I've stopped my emotional abuse to the W. No more nitpicks, no more name calling, no more belittling. I've tried to carry that over into other areas of my life too, even my driving. I tried to think, act, and talk more positively.

Now, did W ever prove it's over? One of you asked me about this recently (thank you!!!). We had discussions about this but I don't feel like W went out there and really proved it. And it's kind of sad that I don't really care like I used to. There's only so much a person can take before they just shut it down and stop worrying about horrible things like affairs. On the flip side, my W felt this exact same way about how I was treating her in the years leading up to BD.

She's been home every night, we've been communicating in a much different way than even 3 months ago, and W and I had an impromptu meeting with my Dad and sister on Easter morning. It was a talk/cry session for everyone except me, I'm too tough for that wink. Of course W freaked out on the way and called her parents instead of talking to me. If I'm going to remain with W I probably need to accept this kind of thing in the short term, and set my boundaries in the long term as far as them not picking and choosing when to drop in for advice. I have my concerns about W, but I'll just air them out this week. If that chases her off, then I will be a little sad but there will be a major absence of a negative. I would have the house to myself and I would be just fine.

My story has been an up and down tale and a major learning event for me - and it is still going. I don't know what will happen but I am going get through no matter what. I'm continuing my weekly IC. We are starting to veer away from my W and into my head, where the painful memories of my childhood still reside and where I have concocted many a scheme to keep my W right where I wanted her, making her feel pitiful and small. One thing that came up was self forgiveness. And it's true, part of the reason I was able to bear the weight of her incredibly horrible affair was my own guilt from how I treated her. Part of it was me loving her so much. Part of it was me not wanting to be divorced like my dad. But I've been letting go of that guilt. Does W still think, feel, or expect me to hurt her? Maybe. And she'll get over that, or not, in her own time and her own way. In the meantime I am working harder at work, at GAL, reading, training my pup.

I've made some serious career strides this year, but I do owe my W and my Dad, and many others, a big thank you. W signed off on a line of credit I needed to get my business off the ground. My Dad helped me restructure a boat loan to obtain that line of credit. My Dad still has a ton of issues and still tends to hurt me and my siblings, but for now I'll focus on his positives and maybe start to enforce stronger boundaries with him too. I guess that's what moving forward looks like for me whether I speak about him or my W. I'm finally going to read DR again with somewhat fresher eyes. I may read my own threads again one day too, but I don't know. Thank you for everyone that has followed my story. My screen name is "Overtherainbow", and that's the only place I thought I'd ever see my W, and my happiness. I thought I was losing it, that my life story would change and I couldn't recover. I was spinning out of control and hoping desperately to change my situation. I've come to grips with it and I couldn't have done it without the support that I received from MWD and everyone on this board.


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Quote


I know I'll always have swings and am getting better at reacting positively to them. In the past year, I've stopped my emotional abuse to the W. No more nitpicks, no more name calling, no more belittling. I've tried to carry that over into other areas of my life too, even my driving. I tried to think, act, and talk more positively.



This so struck a cord with me, ovr! I was the same way. Had let years of anger and bitterness turn me so negative. I was horrible to my W. And in the road I was aggressive. Everyone was purposely slowing me down or getting in my way. Chasing all that has set me free!! Glad to hear you made positive changes.

Being right and being happy aren't always the same thing. I was a right fighter. And it was making my life miserable. Being happy is such the better choice! My IC taught me this. And it sounds like yours is leading you down that path as well.

Thanks for the update ovr. Onward and upward!


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Glad to read where you are, Over. Piecing is no easier then other stages of DB. And it´s a long bumping road.

Time and patience as usual. And choosing to be happy, that´s the attitude.

Really happy for you man, keep going on.

Yeah, onward and upward!


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Thanks for sticking with me everyone. Neffer, I initially laughed at the "piecing" comment and thought "are we?"

Maybe. I'd been holding off on pressing about questions and opening up with her. I've been in IC every week the 3 months. I told my IC that I don't know if it's really over. She laughed and said that you are so bold I'm surprised that you haven't asked her. I laughed when she said that and thought "you're right". I went home and asked. I didn't want details of everything, but I figured I needed to look her in the eye and be sure. We talked about it a bit. I probably need everyone's advice on how to verify/ensure but I'm ready to move on. I'm tired of playing detective. I'm ready to be free of the weight of all this.

W is home every night, we've seen her family quite a bit, she's been around mine a bit and everyone has said what they needed to, with the exception of my mom. She hasn't seen my mom yet and that is a looming issue. W has apologized to me, but I'm not pressing to constant apologies from her. She got me a card and a couple things for my birthday. It was a tough read on the card but it was very heartfelt. I do find that we are getting along quite well, but we are getting used to a new way of "fighting". I find myself trying to remember to not get too high or too low based off of this relationship with W. I do want to go slow, but obviously my emotions are building towards her. So I'm trying to temper that for the time being b/c as you all know your world can turn upside down in a minute.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Hi Ovr,

I think not getting too high or too low off of another person is always a safe bet; it's important to still be independent and detached with others, even if in a relationship with them. I think of that as the opposite of codependency.

Your sitch is a tricky one. I sometimes struggle with what to tell you and feel like I always go back to my same old, boring advice. It's just what I think and you know I am not great about sugar-coating anything. You let her back too easy. She didn't ever lose you and she didn't have to do any work to get you back. I feel like it's almost that simple for most of us here.

I also still think you have to be apart for some time before ever coming back together again. It sux and yeah, it takes a long, long, long time. This stuff can take many years. As you can see, a few months or even a year of staying together and "partly" working on things is not enough. I don't see that she was ever all in ... so my fear is that you have been slowly building bad habits together that are becoming the norm. .... I think you deserve better than this ....

Or I have missed something here? Your second paragraph is rather confusing to me. Are you saying that she said it's over but now your emotions are building more towards her? I don't get it. She is still there tho. Has she said again that she is done and out? I don't tend to believe what she says because she hasn't been honest and changes her mind. Or can you just tell because she is becoming indifferent?

Blu

Last edited by BluWave; 05/07/19 07:40 PM.

“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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It’s a bumpy ride ovr. But there’s movement.

Time, patience. You know what it takes.

Keep doing what works man.


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
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ovr,

I am grateful you are on the boards sharing your time and energy, your perspective and insight. You deserve to be happy. You're a good guy.

I am going down that road where I am making it too easy for my W. We are physically separated but now she wants to try and work it out. She says she is willing to go to MC, she tells the kids she loves me. She wants me over more and all the time. She's said she'll tell me everywhere she goes and will turn the find me app back on and all that BUT she has not admitted to one darn thing. She has said she wanted to be forthcoming with me and I guess in time. I think in some ways I am like you. I want to be honest as can be within the rules of DB. I want to help guide her and encourage but I cant spoon feed her what to do. I am liking our time together, especially with the kids. My S6 is having some issues now with the separation and its eating us to the core. He misses me and cries at night. I am also liking my time alone. And I know to trust nothing my W says.

This is how I see my sitch, I'm just starting with the physical separation. After some point if I am making it too easy for my W to cake eat, I will get tired of it. I'm using the time for my own personal wants. There is no guarantees in life so I am taking it day by day. I am foolishly being patient hoping that if I create this safe environment that W will have a chance to open up on her own. If not, and when I feel the time is right, I'll end it. My W said she knows she has a communication issue and she is a distancer. She said she wants to talk to a counselor about these things and even wants to work on changing this with me. It's not an overnight process. It will take a lot of time.

As neffer said, there is movement. I was watching some videos from marriage counseling about being in the valley and if there is another person involved, sometimes its okay to be in the valley for a while if there is movement.

change will happen. nothing stays the same forever. you're strong and I know you have the fortitude to endure with dignity. You keep working on you. Your W will eventually get on board or she won't. You also know the old M has to end for the new one to begin.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Blu,

Originally Posted by BluWave

Or I have missed something here? Your second paragraph is rather confusing to me. Are you saying that she said it's over but now your emotions are building more towards her? I don't get it. She is still there tho. Has she said again that she is done and out? I don't tend to believe what she says because she hasn't been honest and changes her mind. Or can you just tell because she is becoming indifferent?


She did say it was over and that she was trying to show me by being on her phone and doing thing in front of me. And yes, I'd say my emotions are building, but not much, towards her.

Adam, I don't think you're being foolish by creating the safe environment for her. Everyone wants to feel safe, like they can let their guard down. Her being a distancer means you may require more patience. Any chance your W isn't lying? These sitches make us so adversarial, and we don't realize to what extent either.

I need to post my own thread more often. There's a bit of dread in doing so. Things have been fine. W staying at home, we're going out and doing things together. Had a good holiday weekend.

W is pushing forward with the business we were discussing pre-BD, a wedding venue. Isn't that funny? I jumped on board for a few reasons. One being more money for us and another being that her parents were already going to back her financially anyways. I can't stop this train so I might as well make the best of it. She did sign on my financing deal for my business back in December.

Overall I've been fine, going to IC every week and working on my issues. There's plenty. Trying to be a driven, hard working, passionate person who isn't high strung and super critical. I'm also dealing with my family issues that probably got me in this state of mind in the first place. I've been having a lot of dreams about my brother - I'm an identical twin. My brother and my dad are a source of a lot of conflict in my life.

I'm also working on being a better partner - listening (putting down my phone or book), trying to make sure I understand, and then responding not to fix the situation. I've been trying to reread the detachment and validation threads and maybe I need to read some more relationship books too. Some of my 180s have been to be more pleasant to be around, to listen, to do the things the important people in my life ask of my with a positive attitude. Those have been going well.

Should I post on my thread more often? I really don't know. I hate to feel like I'm avoiding but sometimes I don't know what to say. Thanks everyone.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Tonight is our anniversary. Lots of strange emotions today.

Good counseling sessions today too. Really keep track of my emotions and learning how to recognize my negative patterns.

Hope everyone is doing well.


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BD 3/12/18
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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Tonight is our anniversary. Lots of strange emotions today.

Good counseling sessions today too. Really keep track of my emotions and learning how to recognize my negative patterns.

Hope everyone is doing well.


I can relate to the milestones. I was doing well until I hit the first big milestone on Sunday. I've been in a funk ever since. I did get messages from three cute women on bumble today though, so that's helped the ego. Hang in there, ovrrnbw.

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Good Ovr. Keep living into reality.

Give time the time.


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
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Hey Ovr,

It's good to hear that you are working with an IC.

Anniversaries and the like can be hard. That's totally normal. Feel it, acknowledge it, and let it go.

Stay strong, and let us know what happens with the Bumble girls!


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
D official 5/7/2019
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To be clear, the wife and I are working on things. We celebrated the anniversary together. We go on dates, discuss the R openly, hang out with family. We are communicating better, which is awkward feeling for me at times. Our families have aired things out and everyone seems to be supportive. I've made mention of my expectations for the relationship and monogamy. W agrees. She has tried to be open, but I'm not going to play detective and ask for every password and check up on that. If I feel like she's full of it, I'll tell her "prove it" but there hasn't been anything. She's not secretive on the phone, she posts pictures of us. She even talks of the future.

The W and I are getting along ok and doing well and we are both learning how to interact differently. It's a bit strange not fighting and squabbling over little things. I'm working hard to undo the dynamic I created and heal from the affair and relationship state that I co-created. Just acknowledging my part in the downfall is hard.

So Davide, no Bumble dates for me. But I see the D is final for you, so I hope you can and have begun moving forward.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Also, I guess I keep my thread in the Newcomers? I've been here for a year now which makes me old in DB years!


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Ovr,

Grats on the anni.

Good to hear all that, It sounds like you are in a better place.

Don’t stop working on yourself. This is continuous effort.


H 49 , W 47
T 23, M 17
S11, S5
BD: 7/18
IHS: 7/18 - 3/19
Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19
Piecing: 4/19 - Current

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Ovr,

I apologize if you mention this already in your threads, but after you and your W decided to reconcile (I am assuming that from your post above), how did your actions change from the DBing you were doing up to that time?


M: 22, T: 27
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Destroyd,

I am still DB'ing really. To me that means love yourself, be yourself, and give the same to others. How that looks for me is to listen and validate other people, try to really understand them, not belittling my W and accepting that her reality is different from mine, and to recognize my emotions and work on me. It's been hard to open up to her and move into a different realm where I am being vulnerable.

DB has sparked a lot of positive change for me. Cadet or Job had a post that has stuck with me for a long time that read "People don't change until the pain of changing is greater than the pain of staying the same". I believe it was in reference to a MLC person but that was me. I was a real PITA and not easy to get along with. It took this big life event to open my eyes. The pain has started to subside, the anger is still there, but now I watch my thoughts and am retraining my mind. That's DB.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Time, patience and DB my friend...

Gooooooood!


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,681
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H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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