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Davide Offline OP
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link to old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2833508#Post2833508

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to my thread thus far. For all my moments of weakness and poor DBing, I know that I would be in far worse shape without the consistent support and 2x4s of this community. I have much love and gratitude for everyone who has helped me along the way.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
D official 5/7/2019
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Originally Posted by Davide
For all my moments of weakness and poor DBing,
Lol Davide, are you talking about 1 or 2 times??!! You are are great DB'er! Your support for everyone else here means a lot!


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Hi Davide, reading where your W still is at makes me feel sorry for her, she is stuck in a place of regret but is far from feeling any remorse. I attended a session recently on energy vampires, each of our WS to a certain extent are energy vampires to those of us who want to keep moving forward. While keeping in mind that you should not get svcked into her emotional drama, as hard as it is and as impossible as it may to do this further be kinder if possible. This is not for her, its for your own healing so interactions with her dont leave you with too much bitterness. You are doing such a great job on your journey, in a year I hope we can all be in a place to look back and say 2019 has been the best ever for each of us.

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Hey D,

Some serious temp checks from W- dude I think you passed the test!! Even it had a minor effect you you. You showed your alpha behavior. Looks like you are at the top of your game. The newbies here can learn a lot from you. Keep it up - It looks like the finish line is not too far away stay positive. Blessings!


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

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Davide Offline OP
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Hi folks! Just some quick journaling here:

I spent the weekend up in Philadelphia at a national job fair for teachers. It was crazy, like speed dating, and I had 22 interviews in just over 24 hours (noon Friday till 2:30 on Saturday). Most of them won't lead anywhere, but it is still nice to feel in demand and know that I have lots of possibilities out there. They are all across the country from San Diego to Nashville, to Miami, to Denver, to NYC. It is exciting and frightening to think about starting fresh in a new place. However, I am being quite picky and will only leave for a near-perfect situation both in terms of the job and in terms of starting a new social life.

I was also able to spend time with old HS friends and even have dinner with my parents, which was fabulous. They all would like me to return to that area but so far their are few opportunities.

I am continuing to date. After speaking with a friend I decided to keep dating other people since things were progressing so slowly with the separated woman that I have seen 5-6 times already. We are continuing to see each other, we actually have a date tonight, and we had a good honest conversation about where we were and what we are looking for. She is aware that she is not as ready as I am and was upfront about that, but we do enjoy each other's company so we will continue to see each other. That said, I already have a few dates set up with other people and will keep an open mind. It's strange to be dating and job searching at the same time (all of my dates know that I was up at a job fair) as it feels like two parallel tracks that lead in different directions. If I find a great person I am willing to spend more time here to see where it goes, but if I find a great job opportunity elsewhere I am definitely willing to move. I suppose the biggest issue is if I find both, but it's not worth expending mental energy on that quite yet.

I finally separate my W's phone plan from mine, as well as our gym membership, so that is another step towards complete independence. She finally wrote back to me about meeting to discuss splitting up our joint bank accounts and splitting the house and suggested that we talk this coming Saturday or Sunday. I haven't responded yet, mainly because I want to schedule that around my dates rather than vice versa. She doesn't get the priority there! I'm sure that she will want to discuss the past, and to an extent I am willing to listen to her and validate, but I don't have any desire to rehash the mistakes we both made or to provide her with any absolution. My focus (drishti) is on the future. For me that has been the key to this whole process, moving from backwards-focused thinking towards forward-facing thinking.

I had a text conversation with a potential date last night and she asked whether I had been married, and then if I was divorced or separated. I answered honestly, but then we got into a deepish conversation about dealing with breakups. It was nice to be able to tell her that I feel happier now, more positive, and more certain of myself than I did in the final years of my marriage. This has been the worst year of my life by a long shot and yet it has helped me to come closer to the person I want to be.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
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I like scheduling things with your W around your dates. She is not the priority, and I don't mean that in a mean way, just an honest one. I like that you're predicting where this convo is going to lead. I hope you think it through and are ready for her to lure you into a R talk.

That text convo about breakups seems like a good one. Sometimes we meet people in strange ways and have a great connection.

Everything else sounds pretty cool!


H 34
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BD 3/12/18
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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Davide Offline OP
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Another update:

This has been a whirlwind of a week as I continue to date both women and schools. It is like my life is on two parallel tracks as I consider the attractiveness of various other cities and job offerings as well as the romantic possibilities here where I am. My goal continues to be to remaining open to all possibilities and living in the moment without worrying so much about the future. There is something alluring about starting fresh in a new locale, possibly a bigger city with more of the culture that I love. That said, I love my house and my neighborhood and have really worked hard over the last 10 months to develop a strong support network of friends in this city. If I think that there is a relationship worth pursuing, I am very open to committing for another year (because it really only is a one year commitment.) Right now the relationships seem more alluring than the job possibilities, but it is still early and that could easily change.

I have had 6 or 7 phone interviews with schools from as far as San Diego to NYC to Pittsburgh to Miami, and have even progressed to the second round of phone interviews with three of the schools. After that the next step would be for them to fly me to the city to visit the school for a day, do in-person interviews and teach a class. I really only want to take that step if I feel like the school and city is a good fit for what I am looking for. I am not leaving just to leave, and really need to be impressed and excited by the opportunity.

On the dating front I have had two more first dates this week with another scheduled for Saturday afternoon. One of them was, perhaps, the best first date I have ever been on. She is a university professor, just a couple of years younger than I, with a three year old who was conceived without a father (IVF). We connected right from the outset to a scary degree and share similar tastes, senses of humor, and intellectual pursuits. It really takes work and conscious effort for me to slow down and not get ahead of myself when considering the possibilities with her. We are scheduled to meet up either late tonight or on Sunday (or both!)

At the same time I am still seeing the separated woman, she is actually coming over to my place on Saturday and I am going to cook for her. Our last two dates have gone well, and removing the pressure of exclusivity has been positive. I enjoy her company without as many expectations. If things progress, great. If not, I know that I will spend a fun night with her. I am also texting and speaking with a woman who lives in a city about 1.5 hours away. She is also very cool and I love talking with her, although I don't know if there really is any possibility given the distance. So, the dating is going very well. I imagine that at some point, probably not too far off in the future, I will have to commit to one relationship in order to fully pursue it, and I am ready to do so. However, I am really trying not to jump the gun on that and remain open to all possibilities.

I wrote back to my W and told her that I do want to meet but I'm not sure if I can this weekend. It really depends whether or not I am getting together with the professor on Sunday. I probably won't know that until later tonight. She, the W, offered up next weekend as a possibility as well. I guess I will have to just decide on one time because I do want to square away the finances and possibly begin talking about the D process. If this weekend doesn't work out, I'll just give her a time that I am available and work from there.

I think this is what continuing on my own path looks like. I am happier, more grateful, and more excited for the future than I have been in many years. For all of those still stuck in the morass of depression or limbo, please know that there is a light at the end of that tunnel if you are willing to lean into it and focus your gaze forward. It was only a few months ago that I was stuck in that place, thinking constantly about the past and the relationship that was, and the woman I fell in love. It didn't feel like I could ever stop the thoughts or remove the dark cloud from above my head. But, with the help of a lot of folks on her and my ICs, I feel stronger than ever now. Just trust the process!


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
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Sounds good Davide, great stuff! Very positive post, I love it!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Yeah man! It’s great to read what you wrote D! Just keep moving forward.

Sending summer hugs :-) from here!
(((D)))


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Davide, hope you are doing well!

I thought you added me on IG. Was that not you? The name was davideXXXXXXXX and i was thinking it was you, but I guess not.

Anyways, great update. It's crazy to think about you picking between all these big cities!


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Davide - wow, you've been busy smile

Your positivity, about both work and dating, is an inspiration.

Originally Posted by Davide
My goal continues to be to remaining open to all possibilities and living in the moment without worrying so much about the future.


This is something we can all learn from. Fear of the future keeps us stuck in the past. Thank you for sharing this.

Good luck with both work and dating.


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D12, D9

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Davide, your update is exciting and sounds tiring too! I wonder where you'll end up? It's nice to have the freedom to pack up and move. I think what you're doing is the best thing you could be doing at this point in time.

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Thanks for the support folks!

Ovr - that is definitely not me! and I would be wary of anyone with that many Xs in their name!

I have no idea where I will end, or whom I will end up with. The possibilities are wide open. That is kind of cool.

Focusing on the future is key, that is what has allowed me to reach this place.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
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D official 5/7/2019
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Haha there was no X's in the name I just thought maybe it was you so I didn't want to out you! Such a letdown.


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W 29
BD 3/12/18
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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Hi folks,

I just spent the weekend in Miami for an interview yesterday. It was a nice break from the drudgery that is February in the (more) northern climes. It was so gorgeous to be out there, walking along the beach, soaking up the sun, eating amazing Cuban food! I got one of those dockless Lime bike rentals and rode all around the city (so dangerous!) for two days. I even connected and met up with a woman from one of the OLD sites - it wasn't romantic/sexual but we had a coffee and walked around South Beach and she showed me cool places. The interview itself was all day yesterday and it was my first real one in 3 years. I had to teach a class while being observed, and that part of it went really well - they clearly loved my style and class. However, I am not as sold myself as the school and the other teachers in my discipline are much more traditional and it feels like the fit might not be there. The worst case scenario is that I got a basically free trip down to Miami from it, so it's a win no matter what.

I am feeling a bit down because I have been doing lots of phone interviews, and lots of schools seem to be interested, but my style is very progressive and it is hard to find a place where I will be free to be myself, as well as be located in a cool, progressive city. I couldn't possibly have more freedom than I do in my current position (though I could earn more!) and my living situation is both affordable and walkable. I certainly don't need to leave, but I am struggling to avoid the feeling of being trapped.

I think it is also a bit hard because today is/was my anniversary as well as my W's birthday. It hasn't dominated my thoughts or turned into any sort of downward spiral, but I think that it is exerting some sort of subconscious pressure. Going back to such a tropical and Latin city like Miami also brought up a number of memories, of trips to Havana and Panama, as well as our life together in South America where our relationship started and we spent our first year and a half together. I keep reminding myself to refocus my drishti onto the future, onto the present, onto the things that bring me joy and happiness. My plan was to get out of the house tonight, go on a date, just do something fun and enjoyable with a person who wants to share my company. However, I am exhausted from the travel and haven't set anything up, so I will likely stay home and watch an NBA game that I have a lot of interest in (TTP!) My W left me a birthday note and gift back in November, so my thought was it would be nice to do the same, while not recognizing the anniversary at all. I just finished a book that I think she would enjoy so I am thinking of wrapping that up and leaving it with a brief note for when she comes by to get the dog on Thursday. We are meeting on Saturday to discuss finances, but I want to keep that business-focused.

Despite those hiccups, overall things are still going well. I feel strong and in control, if still uncertain, of my future. There are lots of possibilities out there, I just need to decide which interest me the most.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
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Hard to feel 100% certain of your future when things are still in limbo, just a fact of the situation. I like your PMA, I like that you know what you want, and I like the trip to Miami.

Those important dates are bound to bring up some negative feelings. I was reading DR over the weekend and saw the stop sign technique so I've been trying to employ it this week as my sitch got pretty stressful. Maybe it can help you, although you have like 20 girls to keep your mind occupied!

I hope you find what you're looking for in terms of jobs and peace with your life.


H 34
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BD 3/12/18
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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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I´m sorry man. I´m into blitzkrieg mode here actually!

You are the owner of your time D. Take it, own it, enjoy it.

Just sending hugs and kick in the *ss emojis so these are for you bro!

(((((D)))))


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So today the W and I finally met to discuss finances, divorce, and other topics, including R, as it ended up. I am sure that I broke a number of DB rules, but I'm okay with that, okay with how it turned out, and okay with how I handled myself. We spoke for nearly two hours before I told her I had to go (I had a date scheduled as a hard out, which worked perfectly.)

The biggest order of business was splitting the money in our remaining bank accounts and the value of the house (both our names are on the deed.) If she wanted to fight for it, I'm sure she could get a 50/50 split. We both wrote a percentage on a piece of paper and then passed them to one another. As I predicted 8 months ago - I was more generous to her, and she was more generous to me. In the end we'll split everything with 2/3 going to me and 1/3 going to her, which is more or less fair given how much I supported her and us during the years she wasn't working or was barely working. The same goes with the house (minus the money we owe on it and the money that my parents gave us for the down payment,) we'll split the increased equity at the same percentage. The county just reassessed the house at a number which seems just about right so we used that as the current value. I don't know if I am staying in town or moving out, so that might involve me buying her out of the house (which I can afford to do). The only snag is that her name is on the deed, and it is my understanding that if I remove her name I might have to refinance the house based on just my salary - which I would prefer not to do because the interest rates will be much higher and I would have to pay significantly more per month, as well as paying closing costs. I'd prefer just to leave her name on the deed, although I am sure that I will get a bunch of 2x4s telling me how idiotic that is (please let'er rip!) She isn't going to rip me off, at this point I am sure of that because of her consistent actions over the past 10 months of separation. She hasn't touched the money in our joint accounts, nor tried to fight me for any of our money.

That said, she is definitely still in a fog. When I brought up starting the divorce process she let me know that she didn't feel ready to do it, that she wasn't over me, that she had loved me throughout this whole time, etc.. Of course, she is also still with OM. (I literally told her that her not being over me comment was "rich" given her actions!) I told her that I couldn't go forward with the process for another month and half unless she agreed to do it since we would have to lie about the date of our separation. She eventually said that she would do it if it would help me move on. This portion of the conversation was conducted between tears and sobs on her end, as if she hadn't been the one to walk out. We did delve a bit into relationship talk because she kept pushing there. I told her that the biggest/best thing I did was take responsibility for my actions, my choices, and my own happiness and that she was suffering so much because she was still running away from that responsibility. She had every right to walk away from a marriage that she didn't want to be in, but that she needed to own up to the consequences of that action. She has this fantasy where we are still great friends and in each others' lives, but it's a pollyanna-esque dream world.

At one point she asked me why I felt betrayed and I told her that it was because I had vowed to be with her forever no matter what, but she walked away from that commitment. She was surprised that I would think it was a good idea to stick around in a bad situation. And I think that reflects a pretty profound difference between us. I don't necessarily think that there is a right or wrong here, but it is a very different way of looking at it. To be fair I don't think that I would have made the changes I have made over the past 10 months without her leaving (certainly I wouldn't have made them so quickly). I don't know what the right answer is for when it is okay to leave a marriage - there certainly is a line, but I never felt that our MR was ever particularly close to it. Another profound difference that was explicitly laid out was my desire for a family and her lack thereof. I think that was one of the underlying tensions that frayed the cord of our marriage. I had reached a point where I thought that I would rather be with her than leave to have a family with someone else. It's possible that that was pure rationalization or a reflection of codependency, I'm still not sure.

I probably let this portion of the conversation last longer than it should, but honestly it wasn't hurting me. It wasn't pursuit, because I don't see any possibility of recovering or reestablishing a relationship with her. It felt more like a final opportunity to lay our cards out on the table with one another. I saw it as a final act of honesty that I certainly didn't owe her, but that I was okay giving because it really wasn't costing me much at all. We laughed a bit, I also called her out on her bullshit or hypocrisy at moments, and I let her know that I didn't want to hear about her and OM (boundary setting) when he came up. I told her that I don't know that I am "over her" but that I am focusing my energy and time on things that bring me joy and on people who bring love and positivity to my life and who want to spend time with me. One of her issues is that she constantly spends/spent time worrying about things that she couldn't control to the point that it would affect her mood significantly.

(Sorry for the rambling nature of my thoughts here as I try to reconstruct the conversation from 8 hours earlier. To return to the divorce filing for a second, she told me that she is doing a coding bootcamp for the next six weeks so won't have time to do the paperwork, but that she would sign and notarize whatever I needed. So, it's really just a question of whether I will have the time and focus to do it myself.)

I am under a fair amount of stress this week, between her birthday/ our anniversary, this impending meeting, a number of job possibilities coming up at the same time, and the intimacy of various romantic relationships ratcheting up another notch and finally coming to a head today... It actually feels good to have survived the anniversary and this conversation in good shape, as that removes at least two elements of stress from my life. It also feels strange to know that D is the one thing I am confident about wanting as the rest of my life is unfurling in strange and unknown ways and I am filled with uncertainty about what direction I want to go in.

Thanks again for all your support.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
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Davide,

yes get her off the deed. Interest is cheaper than her having half of it.

Lol at using "rich". Her comments are indeed rich. Your W seems like mine, the difference being that you guys have been physically apart so your detachment is through the roof. If she isn't over you, why isn't she honoring her commitment. She is just saying things that make her feel better. Although, it is possible to feel more than one way about something.

I hate the catch 22 of our W's leaving which starts the long awaited changes they were seeking, but the timing makes it to where our changes don't matter. I agree that our W's idea of commitment is severely lacking. They knew who they married. I'm glad the conversation went fairly well. I wonder how you married, given your desire for a family and her lack of desire for a family. Did you think she'd come around eventually?


H 34
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It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Davide Offline OP
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Thanks for the reply Ovr!

It looks like if I file a "quit claim deed" form it will remove her from the deed. She would still be on the mortgage but have no rights to the house. Basically, she would be the only one exposed. If I want to take her off the mortgage that would require refinancing and be very expensive.

I don't think she is saying things to make herself feel better. I think she is genuinely living in a fantasy world where she doesn't need to accept responsibility and consequences for her actions. She's certainly not saying these things to make me feel better, as it would be easier for me if she were cold and rewriting history like so many W on here. I do think she is ruled by her emotions to a large extent. She was unhappy in the MR so she did something to make her happy, regardless of the commitment she had made. It reminds of me a bit of what they say about suicide (apologies, if this is offensive or insensitive) - It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It feels like that is what she did.

That said, it might be that our visions of MR were fundamentally incompatible. The question of starting a family was there from the beginning but she was so young and not sure of her feelings at the time (she was 24). Quite frankly, I wasn't 100% sure either. Later on in the MR it became clear that she didn't want a family, and I thought I was okay and reconciled myself with that. I thought I would prefer to be with her without kids, than the alternative. Maybe that was a compromise that went too far, but it was something I was willing to do to honor my commitment and as an act of love towards her. Frankly at my age I think it is more likely that I get together with someone who already has kids rather than starting a family of my own. Most of the women in my dating range either don't have kids because they don't want them, or have them and don't want more. It looks like it will be something I have to reconcile myself to, even without her.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
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I file 3/06/2019
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You are an experienced DB master my dear friend. You took expectations out of your encounter with W. You know where you are standing. She’s still into the fog... I was there, into the fog, for a long time...and what took me out of it was this forum. In fact, it is what keeps me focused...you had the tools that W had not...I’m sorry for her and for both of you. But you need to move on D, and you know that.
To
Many of you say that my intrusion into this forum give some kind of good vibes but I must confess l’m here to heal myself. That’s why I could never find the words to say thank you to all of you.

Time to move on D. All my heart goes for you man.
(((D)))

Recuerda este dicho: “no hay mal que por bien no venga”

Abrazo fuerte hermano!


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You can still have kids. You're young, you're in good shape. You're smarter than you have ever been.


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Davide,

I think your dating range is anywhere from 30 - 50, with 35 - 45 being the ideal range. There are so many women who would be happy to marry a man a few years older or younger. You could easily find a woman around 35 or 36 who is childless and the two of you could marry and have one or two children before she's 40 and before you're 45. I had my daughter when I was 35. I lived in NYC where it's extremely common for women to have kids between 40 - 45. It's also common for men to become fathers well into their 50's. I think you're at the perfect age to get married and start a family!

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this is what im worried about as well. finding a women when im even ready to date that would want children. I am already late 30s . My w and myself could never conceive for some reason. I feel like it will be hard as well to find someone. Maybe i'm wrong.

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Hahaha... It's strange which parts of a post people latch onto and reply about.

I think a large portion of it is because I am in a Southern city and there isn't as much of the career-first mentality that is prevalent up North. The bible belt is still the bible belt! It's one of the reasons that I am considering moving away.

In terms of age range 38-42 has been my sweet spot. Nearly everyone I have dated has fallen in that range, which is really the tail end of any chance for children. One of the ladies I am currently seeing is 41 and she has a 3 year old but already told me that she would be open to having another with someone if the right situation arose. Of course, 5 dates in is faaaaar too early to be deciding if it is the right situation.

Neffer, it is serendipitous that the very thing which is helping you heal also provides such a benefit for so many of us. It is a mutually beneficial relationship (unlike many of our MRs!) ¡Gracias por el apoyo! ¡Qué sigas iluminando el camino para tantos!

(a proposito, hoy una chica me regaló una novela de Eduardo Galeano, un Urugayo, creo - Los Hijos de los Días. ¿lo conoces?)


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I knew him...our country is really small. Read the trilogy “el libro de los abrazos” if you can. I admire Galeano’s style of writing. I have most of his books. Las venas abiertas de America Latina is his most famous one I think.

Take care of yourself my dear friend. Don’t forget you have a DB brother here, in the far far south, but walking with you, at your side.

(((D)))


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Originally Posted by Davide
So today the W and I finally met to discuss finances, divorce, and other topics, including R, as it ended up. I am sure that I broke a number of DB rules, but I'm okay with that, okay with how it turned out, and okay with how I handled myself.


It sounds like the convo went fine but do remember the whole reason we say not to have these R convos in the first place is because it is only a reflection of how your W feels at that very moment in time. Her whole outlook can change 5 minutes afterwards, rendering the entire convo meaningless.

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That said, she is definitely still in a fog.


Exactly.

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The only snag is that her name is on the deed, and it is my understanding that if I remove her name I might have to refinance the house based on just my salary - which I would prefer not to do because the interest rates will be much higher and I would have to pay significantly more per month, as well as paying closing costs. I'd prefer just to leave her name on the deed, although I am sure that I will get a bunch of 2x4s telling me how idiotic that is (please let'er rip!) She isn't going to rip me off, at this point I am sure of that because of her consistent actions over the past 10 months of separation. She hasn't touched the money in our joint accounts, nor tried to fight me for any of our money.


100% absolutely remove her name from the deed. That's fine if you want to do a quit claim while leaving her name on the mortgage, but please understand she may not be OK with that. If her name stays on the mortgage it will be very difficult for her to get a home loan is she needs one. Also she's leaving herself exposed, if something happens to you (car accident, heart attack, stroke, lost job, etc. etc.) and you have trouble paying the mortgage they can go after her for it even though her name is no longer on the deed. So it's a lose-lose situation for her. If she has an L for the D then the L will push her to remove her name from the mortgage, which as you said means you'll have to refi.


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AS,

Thanks for chiming in. Yeah, I get not to put too much stock in her words. At this point they pretty much roll off my back. That said, she has been remarkably consistent both in her actions and words over the past 10 months. It is driven by emotion, but she seems to have stalled out and been incapable of letting go. That doesn't do me any good, but more than constantly changing her words seem to reflect how she is still stuck in the morass or the fog.

Yep, in my later posts I wrote about the quit claim deed. I will definitely be pursuing that, and after that point it is up to her whether or not she allows me to use her name on the lease. She will be the only one exposed, so there isn't much benefit to her, other than perhaps alleviating some of her guilt. Neither of us are using lawyers, so that won't play a role.


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It's been a crazy couple of days.

Last night I went out to dinner with the separated woman I have been seeing pretty consistently for the last 6 weeks. However there was some tension after she texted me on Saturday asking if everything was ok since she hadn't heard much from me. Later on Saturday she accidentally sent me a series of texts (clearly meant for another recipient) which were talking about our relationship and me, culminating in one that said that I don't know what I want and that she isn't going to chase me. It was an awkward and embarrassing mistake, but I mainly just felt bad for her since everything she said was fair and true, even if not the way she wanted it to come out. She apologized via text once she realized what had happened. I felt that we clearly had to have a talk about what we were doing, and I needed to be honest about seeing other people and not being able to commit to exclusive dating at this point.

The date itself went really well, as we had great conversation, and enjoyed ourselves throughout. We finally talked about the relationship, and it went really well as be both were not ready to make a commitment or sure of what we wanted. She still isn't really feeling ready despite being separated much longer than I. So, in the most respectful and positive way possible, we broke up. It was more her call than mine, as I was OK with the status quo, but I'm okay with it. It was really nice to be able to handle it in a mature way that let both people walk away feeling good.

Then, tonight, I came home early from the gym and ran into my W feeding the dog after a walk. I wanted to talk to her about when we could close our joint bank accounts, and just go over the plan to take her off the deed but keep her on the mortgage. There is no upside for her in this, other than helping me out, and I wanted to make sure that I was clear with her on this point.

Of course, she started crying, telling me that she was in no hurry for me to do any of this. She then asked me if I would consider starting over again with her. This was probably the question that I was waiting for her to ask for months and months and months after BD. However at this point I told her that I wouldn't entertain the question while she was still seeing someone else, and that I would need her to recognize what she had done. I also told her that I needed to be with someone who wanted to be with me, and that she still seemed like she didn't know what she wanted. She admitted that that was the case.

There was a lot more said, but for me it became clearer than ever that I truly was in control of the situation because I had put in the hard work of growing and learning to love myself. I no longer needed her. I wanted to tell her that she has so many attractive qualities - her beauty, her intelligence, her caring nature, her love of languages... but she lacked one key quality that I need in a partner - the capacity to choose me, to love me from a place of strength. She admitted that she needed to do a lot of work on herself. And quite frankly it isn't fair to expect me to wait around while she does it.

My plan is the same - to move forward with the divorce and my life. She is so far behind me in working on herself that I have trouble imagining her ever catching up. I encouraged her to put in that work, because she is clearly in pain and not at peace with herself. But, like I told her, no one can do that work for her.

Maybe that is detachment. I dunno.


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Bro - what a fantastic exchange from your perspective with W. Couldn't have handled it better. Whether you realize it or not, you're a DB ninja too. What struck me from your post is the clarity of thought you have - I can relate to that as I have the same about exW. I love the key quality you mentioned and the fact that she doesn't have any clarity. My only other major quality that I will be looking for is the ability of the other person to hold themselves accountable and take ownership of their actions.

You're doing fantastic and keep your plans going as they are for you. I'm so happy for you. Loved this update.


No one is coming to save you!

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So we have a DB ninja here!

Yes, that´s pure detachment D.

(((D)))


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Originally Posted by Davide
However at this point I told her that I wouldn't entertain the question while she was still seeing someone else, and that I would need her to recognize what she had done. I also told her that I needed to be with someone who wanted to be with me, and that she still seemed like she didn't know what she wanted. She admitted that that was the case.

There was a lot more said, but for me it became clearer than ever that I truly was in control of the situation because I had put in the hard work of growing and learning to love myself. I no longer needed her.


YES!!!!! It warms my heart when I read posts like this where the formerly sad/ weak/ damaged LBS suddenly finds their inner strength again and regains the control in their life. WELL DONE!

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My plan is the same - to move forward with the divorce and my life. She is so far behind me in working on herself that I have trouble imagining her ever catching up. I encouraged her to put in that work, because she is clearly in pain and not at peace with herself. But, like I told her, no one can do that work for her.

Maybe that is detachment. I dunno.


It is indeed detachment, but more importantly it's "dropping the rope". You will now win no matter whether your M is saved or not. Super proud of how far you've come!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Davide,

what a nice update. You handle your interactions with her so well, and if she doesn't want you and only you, it seems like her asking about starting over with you isn't really serious anyways so you're line about not entertaining the thought was telling about your mental state.

Man I know last summer was tough on you, I know the LBS usually gets ahead in the growth stage, but you are a good example of how to do this DB thing. Good on you!


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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
It is indeed detachment, but more importantly it's "dropping the rope". You will now win no matter whether your M is saved or not. Super proud of how far you've come!


Oh man, this is so true.

Well done ninja DBer!


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Thanks guys! (Where are my gals?) It is great to be able to put into practice the strategies that y'all have taught me. As many of you know, I was indeed in very bad shape last spring and summer. If there are any newbies out there reading, I was lost and heartbroken and didn't see how I could live without my W. It was only by putting into the practice the GAL, the 180s, distancing myself and limiting contact with W, and facing my fears and insecurities head-on (seeing an IC as well), that I was able to get to this point.

Even my W recognized my growth. Unprompted she told me that she admired me. When I asked her why, she said for my strength and for making the best out of this situation. It was surprising to hear from her, but I appreciated it.

I don't think that I am completely out of the woods by any means. I see myself like a recovering addict as I can see how easy it would be to slip back into bad patterns, or to slip up and let my W back into my life. Like a drug there is a pull, or an allure there (Neffer, I think you have talked about that in regards to the OW), and it is a question of keeping my focus on my future and to the life I want to have.

This weekend I have a date with the professor I have been seeing for the last three weeks. We have a great time together, and she brings an element of joy into my life. It is much healthier to focus my emotional energy and affection on her.


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Hi Davide,

Those are big updates! It's kind of amazing that your wife said those things. Does she know you're dating? Maybe that's what made reality set in? Or the fact that you're driving the divorce forward... I always wish couples could reconcile but in your case I can see how an attempt at reconciling could end up creating more pain and turmoil for you. Right now you're on a positive trajectory and your wife's words are too late. It sounds like you're wise enough now to assess her level of sincerity and to detect her own lack of personal growth. It seems you've learned a lot and you're on the right track. The only thing to remember is that there are risks with your future partner as well, so what have you learned from this experience with your wife to make a better choice? That's a question I've been asking myself.

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Nicole,

Thanks for the comments and questions! Your post made me think and question myself in a really good way.

Yeah. It always seems like nothing happens forever, and then everything happens all at once. Between the dating getting more serious, the job search heating up, the anniversary and W's birthday, the finance and divorce talk and then the R talk it has been draining, and hard to stay centered. The weather around here hasn't helped as it has rained every day for a week straight. I get affected by the weather, to the point that earlier in my life I thought I had seasonal affective disorder and actually bought a sun lamp. Due to the rain (and cold) I haven't been able to ride my bike to work. Thankfully I have been able to keep up with the yoga and been out climbing 3 days this week. I know how important physical exertion is to my GAL.

In terms of my W, I don't know what she knows about my dating life, but I imagine it is very little if anything. I have not talked to her about it, nor have I talked very much at all with our common friends. They don't know that I am seeing anyone at all seriously, just that I am out there. I think her reaction is very much in reaction to my pushing for the D. She has not gone through the grieving process for the relationship like I have, and the finality of the MR which I grieved all summer and early fall, is hitting her hard. She does not want D, and is only willing to do it in order to give me the closure I need.

I don't know if it is a question of being too late. Right now I value myself enough that I know that I deserve to be someone's first choice, that I need someone who is willing and able to choose me. Love is an action and a choice, right? I don't know if the professor I am currently dating is the long term answer, but she wants to be with me and seems emotionally stable and capable of choosing me. My W is not there. She doesn't love herself right now, and can't choose me. Even she recognizes this. It's not a question of sincerity, she has never lacked sincerity, just clarity. She knows that she hasn't grown like I have. I have tried to help her along that path, but ultimately it is a road that she needs to take by herself. I would never rule out the possibility of reconciliation but it would require a) her growing b) her choosing me and not being with another c) me being available. I don't see that coming any time soon since she has so much growth she needs to do. And I'm not going to sit around and wait.

You raise an interesting point about how to avoid falling into the same problems with a future partner. First and foremost, I take a lot of responsibility for the failure of the MR. If I had been the person that I am now over the last two years of the MR I don't think that the MR would have deteriorated to the point it did. I didn't take responsibility for my own happiness, nor did I communicate well, and I had a lot of covert contracts. Those are things that I need to avoid on my own. Secondly, I think part of the problem is that my W was only 23 when we met, 25 when we married. She didn't know what she wanted from life or even who she was, and grew and changed so much over the intervening years. I am definitely now looking for a partner who is more mature and more sure of those things. The other thing to look for on my end is how a future partner views commitment. For me, I made a commitment to be with my W that I was willing to go through anything in order to make it work. My W views commitment in a different way. She sees no point in staying together if we aren't happy. I am willing to deal with unhappiness in order to find a way forward together. I think that I need to find a partner who looks at commitment more like I do. How to suss that out is an open question.


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Originally Posted by Davide
Nicole,

Thanks for the comments and questions! Your post made me think and question myself in a really good way.

Yeah. It always seems like nothing happens forever, and then everything happens all at once. Between the dating getting more serious, the job search heating up, the anniversary and W's birthday, the finance and divorce talk and then the R talk it has been draining, and hard to stay centered. The weather around here hasn't helped as it has rained every day for a week straight. I get affected by the weather, to the point that earlier in my life I thought I had seasonal affective disorder and actually bought a sun lamp. Due to the rain (and cold) I haven't been able to ride my bike to work. Thankfully I have been able to keep up with the yoga and been out climbing 3 days this week. I know how important physical exertion is to my GAL.

In terms of my W, I don't know what she knows about my dating life, but I imagine it is very little if anything. I have not talked to her about it, nor have I talked very much at all with our common friends. They don't know that I am seeing anyone at all seriously, just that I am out there. I think her reaction is very much in reaction to my pushing for the D. She has not gone through the grieving process for the relationship like I have, and the finality of the MR which I grieved all summer and early fall, is hitting her hard. She does not want D, and is only willing to do it in order to give me the closure I need.

I don't know if it is a question of being too late. Right now I value myself enough that I know that I deserve to be someone's first choice, that I need someone who is willing and able to choose me. Love is an action and a choice, right? I don't know if the professor I am currently dating is the long term answer, but she wants to be with me and seems emotionally stable and capable of choosing me. My W is not there. She doesn't love herself right now, and can't choose me. Even she recognizes this. It's not a question of sincerity, she has never lacked sincerity, just clarity. She knows that she hasn't grown like I have. I have tried to help her along that path, but ultimately it is a road that she needs to take by herself. I would never rule out the possibility of reconciliation but it would require a) her growing b) her choosing me and not being with another c) me being available. I don't see that coming any time soon since she has so much growth she needs to do. And I'm not going to sit around and wait.

You raise an interesting point about how to avoid falling into the same problems with a future partner. First and foremost, I take a lot of responsibility for the failure of the MR. If I had been the person that I am now over the last two years of the MR I don't think that the MR would have deteriorated to the point it did. I didn't take responsibility for my own happiness, nor did I communicate well, and I had a lot of covert contracts. Those are things that I need to avoid on my own. Secondly, I think part of the problem is that my W was only 23 when we met, 25 when we married. She didn't know what she wanted from life or even who she was, and grew and changed so much over the intervening years. I am definitely now looking for a partner who is more mature and more sure of those things. The other thing to look for on my end is how a future partner views commitment. For me, I made a commitment to be with my W that I was willing to go through anything in order to make it work. My W views commitment in a different way. She sees no point in staying together if we aren't happy. I am willing to deal with unhappiness in order to find a way forward together. I think that I need to find a partner who looks at commitment more like I do. How to suss that out is an open question.


I think thats a great thing to be asking for is a true commitment not to give up . I thought my wife was like that though thats the thing. Things change. It could be attchment styles . Some people just dont attach as much and can just walk away easier. I am with you also on I recognize my shortcomings in the m that may have helped her to feel this way and will correct them moving forward. I believe she could have communicated with me and tried to work things out before just giving up . I stood behind her through some extremely rough times and even though i may have been miserable I didn't give up or walk away from our marriage. She was my wife I stood with her till she worked through the loss of her mother , and other things in life.

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I agree, (about willing to be unhappy for a short while to sort things through and being happy again together on the other side). I wish more people viewed difficult situations in this way. And I too thought my husband was on the same page as me when it came to that. I guess the truth it you don't really know until they're tested. People do change their mind about what commitment means to them. Things happen and they just can't be as strong as you think they might be or want them to be.


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I remember when my wife hated her job wasnt good at etc and it was what she thought was her career for life. She was still struggling daily with the loss of her mom although it had been years. She would come home and lock herself in the bedroom for the rest of the night . I felt like I didnt have a wife. This was probably 7 years ago maybe. It lasted probably a year or so till we moved home. We were living 1000 miles away from family. Anyway it was very hard for me to go through with her but I sure the heck didnt give up on her and walk away . I wasn't happy or in a good place but i dididnt give up i stuck it out. Like i said somewhere I often do wonder what if it was me that had the feelings she has now and I wanted out ? I Can sit here and say i'd never do that but maybe thats not true? Maybe it could happen with me.

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It is really easy to paint the WAS as the villain here, and it might be true in some cases. But I think there are come mitigating factors. As Bubbs points out who knows how we would react if we were feeling the same thing as our WASs? I also think that it is spot-on to talk about attachment styles. I question how much of my commitment was rooted in co-dependence. I had an unhealthy attachment to my W so of course I was going to be committed through thick or thin. If my attachment were healthier would my commitment be the same. I honestly don't know. And, having read too much about the pursuit/distance dynamic, I wonder how I would have reacted if she had smothered me the way I smothered her. I'm not in any way trying to blame LBSs, or shift the burden of their decision away from the WAS. But, I do think we shouldn't rush to crucify our WASs for their apparent lack of commitment.


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Davide,

I got a wild hair and went back to your first thread and read it again. Wow what a difference a (almost) year makes not only in the tone of our writings but also in how I read your situation. And it was nice to read about what kind of dog you had again, b/c I love dogs and that just made me happy. I really admire the way you live and the way you think. I remember reading your updates through the summer and feeling so sad for you. I am going to take some hot yoga after reading you talk about it a lot, so I'm really looking forward to that and I want to thank you for sharing everything you have.

I'm also curious what other sites you are/were on for your sitch. I know it's kind of a no-no to link sites but we talk about some books (5LLs and NMMNG) all the time here.

Originally Posted by Davide
She didn't know what she wanted from life or even who she was, and grew and changed so much over the intervening years.
I see your point, and I believe it is true. But then I though "aren't we always growing and changing"? And I think that is true as well. What do you think?


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Yes thats what i'm trying to say and how to look at it. I also did some smothering and believe my w is def attached in a different way shes avoidant type . Now does that mean I think its ok for her just to give up and walk out of our m ? absolutely not. She chose to marry me and took the same vows i did that day. I Guess they just mean different things to different people .

I am just trying to work on what i can to become better and thats definently one of them is my attachment style, being needy and clingy. Like Davide said I was in it thru thick and thin too no matter what . Thats how I operate. Maybe it is as simple as that.

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Bubbs,

You'll get there. I think a big part of being needy and clingy is due to low self esteem. We are trying to fill our own deficiencies through others. Obviously, that didn't work too well. Raise your self esteem and you will realize that you don't NEED anyone else to complete yourself. What I find quite interesting is that I was never like that before. I married at 34, met my W at 33. Before that I was in no relationship longer than 6 months. I was a distancer, constantly pushing people away. I think opening myself up completely to my W and dealing with her depression and my own really threw me for a loop.

Ovr, I didn't use any other sites once I came here. I did work with an IC through an online platform for a while since I was traveling, and then I switch to in-person counseling one I came back. I told my counselors and others that the support and advice I got here was more helpful than the counseling or anything else I did. I think my sitch was helped by the fact that my W respected the distance I needed and gave it to me almost without fail. Getting away, travelling, reconnecting with old friends, making new memories, and of course all the exercise and socializing that made up my GAL - they all helped immensely as well. In terms of books, I'll be honest - there were some ideas in NMMNG that I liked (covert contracts) but I didn't finish it because it had undertones of bro-culture and misogyny that I really can't take at all. I thought It Takes One to Tango, and The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F#$# were the most helpful books, especially the latter. I even recommended that one to my W!

In terms of constant growth - for sure! There is no stasis unless you are dead. That said, I think that in your 20's or even early 30's nowadays there is a lot of wandering around aimlessly until you find what makes you yourself. It might be a job, it might be family, it might be a hobby - but you need to find it. Once you do, you can certainly keep growing, but that certainty can keep you grounded. In yoga class you use drishti or a focus on a point with your eyes in a particular pose. Once you find that point you stay focused on it and it allows you to move deeper into the pose, to relax or to stay strong through the burning of your muscles - it is the point that keeps you grounded. In different poses you have to focus on different points depending on which way you are facing, but you always find a point in each pose. I don't think my W had anything to keep her grounded and that is why she spun out.


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Journaling / Update

This week has been tough.

It started on a bad note. I was at the professor's house Sunday night on a "netflix" date so that she didn't have to pay for a sitter. My plan was to leave early to get a lot of sleep and start the week off well, but the best laid plans... I didn't get out of there until midnight. And then, as I turned off her street onto the major road, I got in an accident! It was my fault, as I didn't see the other car until too late and then skidded on wet pavement. It was a pickup truck (with no front bumper) that plowed right into my driver's side front wheel. Yikes. My first "real" accident in 25 years of driving. I was fine, as was the other driver thankfully. A neighbor called the police and we were out there for an hour waiting for the police, moving the cars off the road, changing out my front tire, filling out the forms, etc... At the end of it, I got a citation for failing to yield, but then the officer proceeded to field test the other driver and ended up arresting him for DUI. I thought he had time to swerve or stop, but who knows.

Unfortunately, when I tried to drive home on the donut, it was immediately clear that the car wasn't safe to drive. So, I headed back to the prof's house (she had come out for a bit to support me) to spend the night. It was probably near 3 in the morning before I could get to sleep with all the adrenaline racing through my body. That also meant that in the morning I met her 3 yr old son for the first time (not how I wanted that encounter to happen!) She was super nice and helpful about everything, driving 30 minutes out of her way to take me home, so I got to spend even more QT with her son in the car. I also had to go back there in the evening to get my car towed, and so she drove me home yet again and the three of us had takeout dinner at my place.

I love kids and he was sweet, but I don't know if I was emotionally prepared to meet him yet. In a perfect world I certainly would not have. I don't think the relationship is yet at a solid enough point. It feels to me like a lot of pressure/responsibility once you bring kids into the picture, and I don't know feel confident that the R can withstand the pressure of that. I am reading about OrangeK's sitch and feeling similarly about being open to the R. I am questioning my motivations, and what I really want, and how much of a chance I am really giving it.

At this point I don't know if the car is totaled or not. Thankfully it finally stopped raining, though the temps have dropped below freezing for my bike commute to work.

I am also finishing up the initial paperwork for the D filing. Today, I closed out the joint bank accounts, and I will transfer the money to W's account when she passes me her account info. If I can get everything organized and notarized, my plan is to go to the clerk's office tomorrow afternoon. I saw the W at the gym last evening, although we didn't speak. I did send her an email today to let her know about the bank accounts, and to tell her my plan to file as I don't want to surprise her with the D papers in the mail.

Mentally this has been taking a toll on me. I was in a not-great mental space yesterday, which was part of the reason I went to the gym. Starting the week off with a lack of sleep, and then dealing with the pressure of the accident, the unexpected advancement of the R with the prof, the divorce papers, doing more job interviews... it has been a lot. I have been short and not very patient with my students as well. It was very good to get out to yoga this morning after missing it on Monday. I also have an IC appointment, which I had previously scheduled for this coming Saturday. I feel like I need it to unpack my feelings about the current R with the prof.

I know that I can do this, and I have made it through harder moments than this, but it is tough.


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Originally Posted by Davide

I know that I can do this, and I have made it through harder moments than this


Accident was just a close call. Take care of yourself my friend. Take it as a warning: you need to be rested and with your clear mind when going outside.

You need to be honest with your GF but first be honest to yourself. If you need time and space, ask for them. Don´t get into anxiety. You are an experienced DBer.

Yeah, you made it through harder moments.

Stay strong, drive carefully, take care of yourself D.

(((Hugs!)))


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Davide, wow glad to hear you were unharmed!!

Speaking of accidents, I loaned a rare convertible pickup I own (one of 909 made) to my dad last year because he is broke and his car fell apart. I gave him explicit instructions that only he was to drive it, only when he absolutely needed to, and that he was to maintain insurance on it while he has it. About 2 weeks ago he completely ignored my instructions and loaned the truck to my loser deadbeat drug-abusing half brother who is in his mid-20's and has already totaled out the only two cars and motorcycle that he has owned. Well guess what, I get a call not from my dad but from the insurance company (thank goodness I kept insurance on it) to verify a claim I knew nothing about. Yup, that little turd wrecked the beautiful truck I have owned since 1990 (bought it new and had to have it shipped from another state as it was a rare blue color almost impossible to find) that was in amazing original survivor condition. It's totaled. Oh man I can't tell you how angry I am! And when I called my dad all he could say was "oh no how am I going to get around now" absolutely zero remorse over what he did to ME, only how it was going to affect him. ARRRRRGH. Oh and did I mention he dropped the insurance on it last year and didn't tell me?????

Anyway hope yours can be repaired, or that you find a nice replacement for it!


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I'm glad you came through the car accident unscathed.

Although I am a very long way from introducing anyone to my children, I do, in a purely theoretical sense, think about it. I put in all sorts of considerations: we must be committed to each other for X months/years, we must be considering moving in together etc, but I know it will happen when it happens. It is probably like saying "I love you" for the first time. You think about it and think about it but when it happens, it probably just slips out by accident. I would try not to worry too much about it. If she were me, I would simply have said you are a friend, explained your car broke down nearby and it made sense for you to spend the night.

But I can see this weeks taken its toll on you. Maybe take some down time. Just chill out this weekend, put the D admin on hold, maybe catch up with some mates instead of dating. You know, take the pressure off yourself to be always doing 'stuff'.


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Glad to hear you're okay Davide! That must be such a terrifying experience even if it lasts just moments. Don't beat yourself up with how things have been emotionally and mentally. You know that it's temporary and you get through it. Yeah take some time to unpack your feelings and see where you land with it.


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Thanks for the support!

This weekend will involve no dating. I stopped dating the others to see where things were going with the prof. and she is out of town this weekend at a conference. So, no worries there.

I don't think that I am particularly shaken up by the accident (although perhaps it is just lurking beneath the surface.) It is more just another hassle to deal with and something that threw my whole week off to start.

I'll be going out to the gym twice this weekend. I'll also be doing a bike-ride and dinner with friends on Saturday night, lots of yoga, and the IC appointment on Saturday. It should be a good opportunity to recharge my batteries and connect with friends.


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So yesterday I went to the courthouse and filed the D papers then went to the post office and mailed them off to W. I emailed her later in the evening to let her know. I didn't want the papers to arrive unexpectedly. She didn't reply to that email, nor to the previous one asking for her address and bank info, although she did leave me that info at the house when she visited the dog.

So, now it's just a waiting game.

I told a couple of close friends, my father, and the prof that I had filed. They all asked how I was doing, and I told them, truthfully, that I thought I was doing okay. There was no rush of emotion. It felt procedural and anticlimactic. That said I am glad that I am talking with the IC tomorrow. I don't want to hide from any feelings that may arise.


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Ahh yes, the waiting game! Well, it's in motion now and so you can at least rest easy that the bureaucratic stuff is almost at the end line.

Good that you're going for an IC appt tomorrow. I have found that even when I have thought of situations hypothetically, when it actually happens, there is a more stronger emotional reaction. I haven't gone to IC for a while, but I am planning on going for at least a session or two when the D is filed. Bring some sort of closing to all of this and let go of the final residual feelings that I may still have.

I am happy that you shared with a few close people in your life. It's just so good to share and disclose such stuff in a safe setting. I hear you about it feeling like it's anticlimatic. I felt the same with the whole separation papers. I think it hit me more emotionally when there was a name and face to the OM, even though I know she was out there dating.

You've come a long long way! Time to put all of this to rest and in the rearview mirror.


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Stay strong dear friend. You are living the reality. We all know what the steps taken mean for you. We feel for you too bro...

We are standing at your side.

(((D)))


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How you been doing buddy? Anything good going on in your world?


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It's been a while since I posted an update.

Quite frankly, the weeks after I filed were a struggle mentally. I wasn't flooded with memories or nostalgia but there was a weight that pressed down on my shoulders, and I felt the cloud of depression all around me. It didn't seem to really kick me in the pants until after my IC appointment, as I was rather positive and had a good perspective during that. However, returning to school for the final weeks before spring break, I was really dragging. I was also physically tired as I was taking some meds for my stomach that left me groggy, and I was stuck commuting everywhere by bike (it turns out my car is totaled).

I nearly broke things off with the professor I had been seeing because I really just wasn't in the mood to see her or do much of anything. There had been some bedroom issues that left me not really wanting to be intimate, and I was wondering if they were a reflection of ambivalence about the relationship. However, instead we had a long talk in which I told her with as much honesty as I could about how I was feeling. She was very understanding, and willing to give me as much space as I needed. I think I was also a little spooked about meeting her son since, in my mind, that represented a serious step in the relationship that I was unsure about being ready for. It was liberating to be able to speak frankly and freely with a partner about a relationship (since I haven't been able to do that with WAW in nearly a year). Things have been better since then, though I haven't seen as much of her since I can't get out to her place without a car.

I ended up running into W last week as I came home early due to rain from a group bike ride and she was still at the house feeding the dog. We sat and talked for half an hour as I offered her some tea. Earlier in the week she had left a dark chocolate bar for me on the table after walking the dog. I thanked her for that and for signing for the divorce documents. It wasn't nearly as fraught a conversation as the previous ones, and I tried to keep it light. She still gets emotional about the end of the marriage. I pointed out that it was just a piece of paper and that she never really cared about the papers. She agreed but said that the marriage was a real thing. I couldn't help but point out that the MR ended a long time ago. She's clearly still processing the fact that it is over, and going through a lot of the emotions that I lived last summer. I did tell her about the car accident since she noticed that the car wasn't there. She offered to lend me the moped we used to share (she bought a new motorcycle and isn't using it anymore). At first I turned her down, just like I turn down all of her offers, but later it was pointed out to me that I could use it to visit the professor, so it would actually be quite useful. She is going to drop it off at some point this week. We really only need to meet in person once more for her to sign the house over to me, but otherwise that's it. I do wonder whether it would be a good idea to leave town to make a fresh start elsewhere.

Last week was spring break, which I was dreading to an extant. It was a lot of free time, a lot of alone time, and given the mood I was in, a lot of time to stew in my own juices. However, it turned out much better than I thought. I was relatively productive, cleaning the house, taking care of my totaled car situation, catching up on some school work. It was also restorative as I slept more than I had in a long time. I did yoga nearly every day, and had my most productive climbing sessions in a while. I took the professor to a pro basketball game, in which my favorite team came to town for one of their two yearly visits. It is something I am passionate about, and hesitant to share because it seemed to come between my W and I. She didn't love the game (it was boring, even for me!) but she clearly wanted to support me and spend time with me, and recognized that it was something important for me.

This past weekend I flew home for a family wedding. It was great to catch up with my friends back home. I wasn't expecting much from the wedding since i am not particularly close with that part of my family, but it turned out to be a lot of fun. I had a bit too much to drink, but I also got out on the dance floor and enjoyed myself as if there were no one else there. It was as un-selfconscious as I have ever felt on the dance floor. It was liberating.

These are the ebbs and flows, the highs and lows. I'm just riding them out.


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Hang in there D, it is definitely a process. Something both Andrew and I are struggling with over in the divorced section. I was with my XW for 17 years and she has been gone for almost 2 and I am being impacted by similar feelings that you describe. Just to say it is normal. If you like the Prof just be patient with yourself.


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Sorry youve been feeling down D. Just go with it and it will pass.

I had a childhood sweetheart. we were beat friends from the tome we were 12 and a couple from 14 to my early 20s. I left him when I met my H. We always stayed friendly, and if I were to be honest he always held a torch for me. When i was pregnant with D13 he got a transfer to the states - he said he couldn’t watch me have children with someone else. We stayed close though. When D12 was 7 he got married. D12 and D9 were flower girls at his wedding. I had left him. We had been apart for years, I was married with two children. I was happy in my marriage and loved my life. Yet, the morning of his wedding I sat on my own and cried uncontrollably. I hid behind sun glasses during the ceremony and cried quietly. I cried not because I wanted him back or regretted my choices. I cried because I knew then and the future we had planned as children was no longer. I cried because I was saying goodbye.

Anyway, go you for dancing. Like yoga and (I imagine) climbing, there is a freedom and a joy that only comes on when you let go.


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You have ebbs and flows but they all fall into the volume continuity principle... You may go with some of that tidal currents, maybe get into some backflows, but you have set the sails long time ago. You are sailing forward dear brother. It´s nice to see you there!


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(I apologize ahead of time for the following rant. I just needed to get things off my chest)

It is strange. When i wrote that post I was actually in a better place. Spring break really helped with that. I was feeling pretty positive about everything.

Yet, I fell into another backspin recently. I had some horrible classes yesterday and they really left me despondent. My students didn't want to do the activities that I had planned and everything fell flat. The worst part for me is knowing that it is my own damn fault as I am not spending sufficient time prepping the classes. I can get myself motivated (generally) when up in front of my students, and be present and in-the-moment with them. However, I struggle to do the same outside of the classroom, and it makes me feel like I am shitty at my job. I have a ton of freedom in my curriculum and my teaching, and I often feel like I am squandering it. I could do just about anything I wanted, and I am half-assing it. They say that life is a struggle and it is simply a question of choosing what is worth your time struggling at, finding meaning in the struggle. What does it say that I can't bring myself to struggle with this? It also makes me question looking for a new job. It's hard to project confidence when you know how brittle the facade really is. Why would I enjoy the struggle more elsewhere? I don't want to run away if it is really just a question of facing up to my own issues.

There are clear exterior signs when I am struggling. I don't maintain the house nearly as well. My diet gets really undisciplined and I tend to stress-eat (people struggle to believe that even skinny people do.) I am quieter and engage less with others.

I'm trying to understand the causes. Part of it is exhaustion as I have been tired all week, starting off poorly with sleep an not being able to catch up in addition to all the exercise I have done. I have been out every night this week, which is good socially, but not so much in terms of rest. I missed a yoga class on Wednesday because I was out on a date Tuesday night and didn't get back until midnight. I think that doing yoga daily over spring break helped declutter my mind. I'm also struggling with the pressure of making a decision to stay in my current job or make the leap elsewhere. My contract is supposedly due today, though I doubt anyone will check, and people often still leave after signing contracts. I'd prefer not to do that as I have been honest and upfront thus far in the process, but at the same time, I have no real tangible options at the moment, just a number of vague possibilities. It is scary to walk away from a decent job with lots of freedom, a cheap mortgage, a city in which I have an active social life - to what? I'm also confused by my relationship with the professor. I am attracted to her, there is some physical chemistry, moreover she is intelligent, mature, kind, and emotionally available. Yet, I don't find myself looking forward to spending time with her (I enjoy all the time we do spend together, I'm referring to that state of anticipation which is lacking.) I don't know if that is a fair expectation to put on the R, or if I should simply enjoy the ride.

I am feeling overwhelmed. I realize that this is a just a "backflow" but it feels like a rip-tide when I am caught in the jaws of it. I'll get through it.


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Well, check expectations then. You are the owner of your time. You are the master of your soul.

Relax, no need to worry. Enjoy your life as it comes.

(((D)))


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Hey Davide,

Maybe you just are not ready for a R yet. You might not even be ready to casually date yet. I don't know that's something you have to evaluate. We all have our ups a downs and time is a precious commodity. Maybe you should spend some more time on yourself to find your center, your drive, and your purpose. I can relate and understand where you are at and how you struggle, however I am a few miles upriver from where you are at. Just keep heading downriver. Someday we will all get there if we want to.


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Hey Davide,

Sorry to hear about your frustrations! I am experiencing a lot of that too with work. I've started a new position, and getting normal tasks done takes forever b/c it's a new system. It can be hard to obtain focus and get prepared. And it stinks knowing that you were the one who could have made this better simply by preparing thoroughly. You have to just get one thing done at a time, one step, one line, one section of your prep. And then start some momentum. I hope this doesn't sound like me telling you what to do... I just hate that feeling too. I've been doing that not eating thing too, but I turned it around this week. I just had too. Not getting enough greens, root veggies, fruits and quality protein alters your mood. Especially when you still are engaged physically.

One task at a time. You will have it knocked out in no time. Good luck on figuring out the work situation.


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Thanks for the support folks! It has been a stressful time given the job situation, the car, the divorce process, and the relationship questions. I think a hectic social schedule (great GAL) also wore me out to an extent (got the spelling right, this time!) as I have been going out nearly every night. I enjoy it and need it, but I know that I also need time to recharge my batteries at home, to practice self-care, to be with myself in quiet solitude. That was one of the elements of growth that I was most proud of this past summer - learning to sit with myself and be at peace. I have spent much of my life bouncing from one thing to the next in constant motion, always on the look-out for what was next and a lot of that was driven by fear of simply sitting with myself and my own thoughts. I don't want to lose touch with that because I think that is what helps keep me centered.

I'm feeling somewhat recharged after the weekend even though I was out and about a great deal. The prof. and I went to a super fancy restaurant in town on Friday night as she sometimes does "secret shopper" assignments - so she has to take pictures of everything and write up the experience in exchange for a basically free meal. It was fun and slightly absurd to eat in such a ridiculously over-the-top extravagant locale. The food was very good, but certainly not worth what the price would have been, as you pay for the ambiance and attention. On Saturday I went to a brewery for a friend's birthday, which was much more casual and relaxed. He and his wife are from Colombia and had some Colombian friends in from out of town, so it was great to be able to converse in Spanish and reminisce (since they are all from the same city I lived in.)

On Sunday I spent the morning climbing in the gym, and then had a barbecue / play-date for my dog with some friends who live close by. I haven't been taking her out enough recently, and I can't get to the dog parks without a car, so this was a great opportunity for her to get out and run and play since they have a huge backyard and a hyperactive year-old puppy.

I also had my climbing partner video me working on (and falling from) a particularly hard bouldering route. I posted the video on social media along with a reflection on my struggles. I rarely feel the need to broadcast my feelings via social media, but I felt compelled to share this.

Quote
This is a failure. I fell. Again. I have been struggling with this route for nearly a week at this point and I don't know if I will ever get it. It is right at the the outer limits of my physical capabilities - my balance, finger strength, and flexibility. It is a struggle. This is the sixth time I fell today. And surely not the last.

Perhaps I made incremental progress, getting a foot higher than before, or maybe I figured out that this method won't work. I still don't know. What I do know is that in this struggle I find joy. It is hard, sometimes it is painful, almost always it is frustrating to fall. But, my mind is singularly focused, working in concert with my body, and my breath powers and calms me. It is joyous and pure. The smile as I fall lights up my face.

I'll keep struggling.


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Well brother...life is going somewhere that we´ll never get. Live the ride.

Thanks for sharing D!


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Another tough week in the books. I was really struggling last weekbecause I was feeling very unsure about my relationship with the prof. We've been dating for over two months and not only is she clearly into me, but she has consistently shown herself to be the type of person worth spending my time with. We share the same values, have similar interests/tastes, are looking for the same things in our lives and in a relationship. Moreover she is kind, compassionate, patient, and genuinely makes me feel appreciated when I am with her. We also have nice sexual chemistry. She really checks off all the boxes. But I just haven't been feeling any spark. She commented last week that I don't flirt with her or give her compliments, and she was right. I've been holding back subconsciously because I am not feeling the spark that tells me this is something real.

My question was why. When we first met, it was the best first date I had been on, and looking back at our text messages in the beginning, I was interested, and flirting. Was it just the thrill of the chase? Our relationship got intimate and relaxed very quickly as it was just easier to swing by her place after she put her kid to bed, and perhaps something was lost there. But if it was just the thrill of the chase is that even a reason to break up? My other thought was that my situation might be leading me to hold back - the uncertainty of my job and even staying in town, as well as filing the D papers and working through that process. She has been very patient with me, understanding that I am working through those things, and I have been open with her all about that. So, I have tried to be patient to wait and see if as the relationship goes on that the feelings deepen.

However, I reached a point last week where I decided that I couldn't handle it anymore. I felt like my feelings weren't deepening, and I was feeling guilty that I couldn't reciprocate the love and support she was giving me. It was making me feel bad to the point that I almost didn't want to see her. So, yesterday we had a long talk and I broke it off. She was ready to have the talk and had previously noted my ambivalence, but she was thrown off by my decision to end it. It really s#$ks because of how much I like her as a person, and how much I enjoyed talking with her and spending time with her. I think it is the right call, but I am far from sure. It also definitely brought back some memories of BD which was nearly exactly a year ago.

I made the decision to end it last Wednesday after clarifying my thoughts by speaking with a good friend. On Thursday night I returned home to find a mason jar with fresh flowers on my dining room table - left by W with no note or context. I was glad that I had already made the decision to end it, so that I didn't have to question my motives. But to top it off, on Sunday as we were having the talk and walking through the city, W and OM passed right by us on their bikes. Given that I was in the process of breaking up, it felt a bit like a kick in the pants. Oh well, time to detach more.

I am feeling more and more like getting out of here would be the healthiest option for me, giving me physical distance and a completely new social circle that isn't so thoroughly mixed with hers. However, that is not entirely under my control. I don't have any offers, and am just at the outset of the interview process with a couple of schools, which means that there is no reason to think anything will work out. I feel like I need to be okay with coming back if no better opportunity comes along, and not get excited by any possibilities.

On a positive note I went to a yoga class on Sunday and one of my regular instructors was a participant in the class and ended up right next to me. At the end of the class she came up to me and told me that she wishes she could always practice next to me, that I was so grounded and focused that it helped her because she felt so all-over-the-place at the outset of class. It was very sweet and completely sincere of her. I certainly felt a bit scattered myself given the breakup I was about to initiate, but the yoga did help center me. It nearly always does.


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I´m sorry about the Dr news Davide. Some cycles go up, some of the go down. Just be aware of keep moving up with each cycle. Moving forward.

Take your time to make decisions, you are not in a rush. I get you are a little pessimist about you and the teaching environment there. Am I wrong? Try to figure out why is that happening. I know you have done a terrible effort DBing, be at peace with yourself brother. Glad you are keeping the yoga classes. Get your balance back, rest your body and mind. Take things as they come. GAL. Enjoy each journey D, relax. Move forward.

((((D))))


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Quote
I know you have done a terrible effort DBing


I hope you mean terrific!


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Hahahahaha, terrible as terrific. You lived here, cmon man!


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Living in uncertainty. That is the daily struggle right now, which I mean in both a good and bad way.

I flew up to my hometown for a job interview this past weekend. It would be at a good school, a sizeable pay increase that would more than make up for the cost of living, plus it would be a fresh start in a major metropolitan city where I still have lots of friends and family. On the bad side, it would severely curtail my freedom in the classroom, which is why I moved to the school I am at right now. Currently, I don't even have an offer, but if I get one it would likely come this week and I would have less than a week to respond. It's a tough decision. It feels like now might be a good time to make a break for it as I have little in the way of roots down here. That said, the situation is not ideal, but I don't know that I will be able to find an ideal situation or even a better one. I've been thinking about it since I left and I am still on the fence. If I don't take this job I will most likely sign my contract to come back for another year where I am (though I could always break the contract if something amazing came up.)

I have a couple of first dates set up for this week, tonight and tomorrow. I haven't talked to them about the job interview since we are just meeting for the first time. I figure if I take the job, I'll just let them know and that's that. If I don't take the job (or don't get it) then I´ll just move forward with my life as if I am staying. Of course, if they ask I'll answer honestly, but I don't plan on bringing it up myself.

I was recently re-reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F%$k and one section made me question myself. It was talking about codependent relationships and how unhealthy they are, it reads:

Quote
Instead, victims and savers both use each other to achieve emotional high's. It's like an addiction they fulfill in one another. Ironically, when presented with emotionally healthy people to date, they usually feel bored or lack "chemistry" with them. They pass on emotionally healthy, secure individuals because the secure partner's boundaries don't feel "exciting" enough to stimulate the constant highs necessary in the entitled person.


That gave me pause because I just ended a relationship with an emotionally secure partner (the prof) with whom I lacked "chemistry." I also recognize the unhealthy codependency of my MR. Am I only seeking unhealthy relationships? I don't think that my MR started out in that way, rather it devolved into that due to a host of factors including depression on both sides. I don't think that I have a track record of seeking out those types of relationships, as I was always very independent and self-reliant before. But, am I unconsciously seeking to replicate the highs of my MR, or is it just that the prof and I didn't have the right chemistry? How could I even tell the difference? It is definitely something worth considering.

I am currently filling out round two of my divorce documents since a month has passed since my W was served via certified mail. Once I fill out these forms (correctly, I hope!) I have to take them to city hall to file, and then they will give me a court date in the next 6 weeks (I don't need to show up, it's a formality for the judge to sign off.) So, basically once I drop these forms off I will have done all the work necessary to get the divorce, it is just a question of time. I still need to meet with W at a notary to remove her name from the deed to the house, but otherwise that is it. I have off on Friday for Easter so I'm planning on dropping them off then. I'll try to go the climbing gym afterwards so that I can expunge the bad taste. It's strange that such a profound and special relationship can come down to such bureaucratic paperwork and errands (and yes, I know it's just a piece of paper, and the relationship has been over for a year now!) I suppose it is better that I am doing it myself rather than being served and being the defendant in the case. At least this way it is my choice and I get to be pro-active about it.

I hope all is well with everyone!


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Originally Posted by Davide
That gave me pause because I just ended a relationship with an emotionally secure partner (the prof) with whom I lacked "chemistry." I also recognize the unhealthy codependency of my MR. Am I only seeking unhealthy relationships?


I doubt it, you seem pretty grounded. More than likely you're just not quite ready for a new R yet. When I started dating again I wrestled with a lot of conflicting feelings about it. It just didn't "feel right" at first. If you had asked me back then I probably would have said the same thing about there not being "chemistry", but now looking back I think my walls were still up quite high and that was preventing any chemistry from forming. I think after some more dating and some more time you'll start adjusting like I did.


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Even though you are feeling the full force of uncertainty at the moment, I still like your updates. To me, they still resonate with optimism.

I was going to respond to your last post about breaking up with the prof.

Originally Posted by Davide
I felt like my feelings weren't deepening, and I was feeling guilty that I couldn't reciprocate the love and support she was giving me. It was making me feel bad to the point that I almost didn't want to see her.


Davide - and I say this with respect and gratitude for all the support you've given me, is it possible, that maybe, you think too much ??

The quote from the subtle art is probably pretty spot on ... for where you are today. Today you are possibly looking reasons to not be in a stable relationship because subconsciously you might have to commit and then put yourself at risk. So, you are attracted to 'unstable' because, well, you might have fun, but you're never really going to commit ... so your heart remains protected.

This state is temporary. It does not define you as a person. Your heart will heal and it will open again. Give it time. For now. Try not overthink. Live in the present. Let what will happen happen. If you happen to break off another 'stable' relationship, it is because you sub-consciously weren't ready. And that's OK.


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Glad to read that the first thing you post in your update is a job related theme. It does reassure that you have done a terrible DB my friend ;-)

Just choose what makes you happier D, if it´s about freedom to teach and you haven´t got any offer...it´s up to you and you´ll be doing well whatever your choice.

You are a DB master D, keep that road.

My best wishes go with you dear brother. Keep on that terrible DB coming!


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I appreciate all the support folks!

Still no word on the job front. Uncertainty... it's all good. I had a nice yoga session this morning. This weekend I have an old friend from college coming in to spend 4 nights with me. She is super low-maintenance which is good because I have no idea what we'll do, and I don't have a car to explore much. Maybe we'll rent one.

I went on a date last night, nice enough woman, in very good shape as she owns a pilates studio. She has traveled a lot on her own, and is very self-sufficient. Unfortunately, I immediately knew that we weren't a great a fit. Still, we had a fun conversation and shared a couple of beers and I learned about Pilates. My metric for a successful first date is a good conversation and meeting an interesting person, and that has served me well. There's another one tonight, so we'll see!

AS,

Thanks for chiming in. I don't feel like that is my m.o. either, it just scared me. You could certainly be right about still having walls up. I like to think that I am open to new experiences, and willing to make myself vulnerable, but perhaps that is just surface level. I would be happier believing that there was a lack of chemistry rather than that my own emotional walls blocked it because she was such a quality person.

FS,

Hahaha.... yeah, I might overthink things just a tad! Clearly I suffer at least somewhat from paralysis by analysis. That comes through here, and I'm not blind to it at all. Yoga helps a lot with that as does rock-climbing. I can and do live in the moment a good deal. When I come here I am much more reflective, so that aspect of my personality comes out more.

I don't think I am attracted to unstable necessarily. I don't even know that stability is driving me away. This particular relationship didn't feel like it was working - for me it felt like I lacked an attraction. I was just questioning whether or not there was another underlying subconscious reason.

Neffer,

Gracias de nuevo hermano! Yep. Figuring out what would make me happiest is the crux of the matter. I am fully prepared to take responsibility for my own happiness regardless of the situation. That is MUCH more crucial than where I end up.


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Sometimes we don't value that which comes easy. It sounds like there wasn't much of a challenge with her when you started dating which could have been part of the problem. I bet you would look at her differently if she was more aloof, maybe not always available, if she gave you the impression that you were not that important in her life.

From what I read everything seemed to be going fine between you guys until you met her kid. Unless I am missing something I would say you might not be ready for a R yet as your R and your feelings took a downward turn when faced with the prospect of it getting real.

It's very easy to have late night booty calls and dates with no real commitment but taking it to another level coming fresh out of an 8 yr relationship is tough.

It has been 2 years since my XW left and my D has been final for just over a year and I am still struggling with it.


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Thanks TBSaka for your veteran advice! I'm not sure if my readiness was the deciding factor there or not. It doesn't seem that way to me, but I am well aware that this can certainly be a blind spot for me. Who ever wants to admit to themself that they are unready?

This weekend my college friend came into town (actually she is still here!) It has been a lot of together time, a lot of getting out and walking around the city, a lot of doing things outside of my normal routine - both for better and for worse. It has been great to have someone to spend time with, but I also found myself missing the independence of my single life after a couple of days (she arrived on Friday). Yesterday, I told her that I needed to take some time for myself and go to yoga class to center myself. She, of course, was cool with it.

It was also good to have her around yesterday as I filed the last of my divorce paperwork. I was given a court date in two weeks which I don't need to go to, and assuming everything is in order they will mail out the decrees to me and W within 3 weeks. I texted W to let her know all that information and to let her know that I would be leaving the official court form on the dining room table for her to pick up. I didn't want to just leave the form out there without explanation. She thanked me and picked it up last night. I definitely found myself short and easily annoyed with my friend yesterday right before and after filing. Despite the knowledge that I am doing the right thing and my willingness to move forward, the actual acts are stressful. I have zero regrets about it, but it is still difficult to take.

I never heard back about the job offer in my hometown, which was disappointing as that means they have likely offered it to someone else. I think that mentally I had convinced myself to accept the position despite its limitations just as a way to start over elsewhere. Oh well. This weekend I was struck by an urge to just quit my job at the end of the year and jump into the unknown. The feeling has subsided somewhat but I wonder if it is something I should pursue.

I have a bunch of dates coming up this week, a second date tonight with one woman who loves to hike and be outside. A first date tomorrow with a woman who works at a rental car company but is also working on a novel. I have another with a woman on Friday, and last night I started chatting with a really intelligent and attractive woman who is close to my age. I enjoy meeting these woman and seeing if there is anything real, regardless of how it works out.


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Relax D, enjoy the present, face the future. You are there. No anxieties.

Tiempo y paciencia.

Abrazo querido hermano


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Weekly update:

The job is officially out so I signed my contract for another year. It's not binding so I could still leave, but at this point I am done actively looking, and I am assuming that I will stay. It was a bit of an ego-blow not to get the offer, but I am okay where I am. Now I can make summer plans without worrying about whether or not I am moving. Perhaps I should also replant the vegetable garden that my W set up in past summers.

On the dating front, I had two poor dates in which there was no connection, another one was actually very interesting but I don't think I will pursue it because the final date was that good. It is another university professor, and it turns out that she works at the same small university as the last woman I dated for two months! It is an incredibly small world! I let her know about that right away because I thought it was better to rip the band-aid off right away rather than let it fester. They are in different departments but she immediately knew who I was talking about before I even mentioned her name, and evidently knows her well enough to comment that her (the other prof's) 3 year old is adorable. That part was a little awkward. However the date in general was spectacular. We were going to meet up for dinner, but the day before she texted me to tell me that she had tickets to a touring musical that was in town, and asked if I wanted to go to the matinee with her, before dinner. So we did. The show was campy, corny fun with a soundtrack full of 90's songs which we both grew up with (she is 5 years younger). Then we walked around town, went to a park, and then a coffee shop for some tea, before we finished the date with an excellent meal at my favorite italian place.

Since we had so much time to talk and since she was not shy about asking me questions, a lot came out for a first date. She asked me all about my divorce, what precipitated it, as well as a lot of family history. However, it wasn't an interrogation. It felt natural, and I was more than happy to be open and honest about it. She also made it very clear that she is looking for someone to settle down with and she is looking to start a family (have kids), which is more than fine with me. Evidently she was in a relationship recently where she was at the point of getting engaged when she found out that the man had lied to her about wanting to start a family and she broke it off because of that.

I am definitely a little infatuated but also wary. She is tall (taller than me in heels!), thin, blond, from an Eastern European country. She was dressed very well but formally (we were going to a musical), and she was almost effervescent in her personality. This is generally not my type at all as I almost never date blondes (very hard in the southern part of the US!), tend towards low-maintenance women and am skeptical of bubbly people. That said, she is clearly very intelligent, very attractive, and knows what she want. She is also a great listener. On so many dates I end up asking all the questions and learning about the other person, but it is rare to find someone who reciprocates, who asks questions and knows how to be present, listen, and follow-up without making it all about themselves. Honestly, right now I'm just trying to slow down my roll as it is quite easy to get ahead of myself. I'll take things as they lie, be present, and be open to the possibilities. That said, I am looking forward to our next date on Saturday.

I have one more first date set up for Tuesday. I am intrigued because this woman graduated from the same university that I did (which is a small one up north, not very well known in these parts.) She also ran track (athletics for the Brits) at there, which I also did. She seems very smart, active, and attractive as well.

Hope all is well with everyone!


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I don´t date blondes...hahaha enjoy Bro!


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Haha found a good one possibly? Good deal! I remember you being worried about starting a family but this gives you hope that it could happen. Of course you're right to not get overly excited, but I don't think you shouldn't be at least a little excited.

Good luck Davide, I'm jealous of your summers off.


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I had a wonderful date on Tuesday evening with the woman who attended the same college that I did. She was cute, smart, and interesting. Not only was she a runner (much better than I) in college, but she has continued in that world, working for one of the major sneaker companies. Under other conditions I would be excited for a second date. However, I was already infatuated enough with the (new) prof. that I decided I wanted to focus my attention there. After the date, I let the runner woman know that I really enjoyed our date but was seeing someone else and wanted to pursue it. She wrote back and said she would like to keep in contact as friends. I actually invited her to come climbing on Wednesday with me, so we'll see how that goes.

I was/am infatuated with the prof, though. I would have liked to get together during the week, but she was resistant and was only willing to meet on Saturday. We went to a jazz concert at a tent in a park in the center of town. She was coming from another event and we didn't have time to do a real dinner beforehand, so I proposed a picnic in the park with some Bahn Mi (vietnamese sandwiches). Despite some rain, that worked out very well. We didn't have as much time to talk but the conversation was flowing and interesting the entire time. She was cold at the concert so I wrapped my arm around her shoulder to casually embrace her and shield her from the wind and she responded by stroking my shoulder/chest. That was as intimate as things got, and she was clearly not ready for a goodnight kiss.

I found myself frustrated not so much by that, but by her resistance towards meeting. Yesterday (the day after the date) i suggested meeting up sooner rather than later and even offered to take my moped out to where she lives (a good 45 minutes away.) But she claimed to be not feeling well and not ready to make plans until she feels better. It's a perfectly fine thing to say, but she has consistently put things off and not been forthcoming with sharing things. She was in the city three times last week but didn't share what she was up to until we were talking on the date. I hate playing games, and have made it clear that I am interested, but I need to back off. We have been remarkably intimate in our conversations, both of us sharing very personal things with the other, and I think that is why I got sucked in to putting expectations on the thing. That's my bad. I need to be patient and open. It's interesting to apply everything I have learned over the last year to a new relationship, not just DB strategies, but everything about emotional boundaries, pursuit/distance dynamic, and my own absolute responsibility for my happiness.

Today is the day of my "trial" for the divorce decree. So, at some point this week a judge will go through my papers and sign off on it assuming everything is in order. I should get a copy in the mail later this week or early next week. We'll see if getting that document raises any emotions. Oh, a friend of mine claimed that I should ask for the diamond in W's engagement ring back now, since it was a family heirloom from my grandmother. I had never considered asking for it back, is that normal? I find it stranger that she still has my wedding ring, but asking for that back seems awkward as well.

I also now need to figure out my summer. My Colombian friend is planning a trip to Machu Picchu and Peru for a couple of weeks. That sounds appealing, so I might try to do that. I also likely need to get a car if for no other reason than to transport my pup around. The money might be a little tight if I give W all the money I owe her to buy her out of the house. We'll see.


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Hi bro. Just take your time to enjoy your life. Keep doing that Davide.

I agree with your friend. You should ask for the ring. It´s a family value.

Keep moving forward D. If you ever go further south than Peru, remember you have a place here to stay. I extend this invitation to any DB brother or sister around that comes to these latitudes.

Stay strong bro!


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Originally Posted by Davide
I found myself frustrated not so much by that, but by her resistance towards meeting. Yesterday (the day after the date) i suggested meeting up sooner rather than later and even offered to take my moped out to where she lives (a good 45 minutes away.) But she claimed to be not feeling well and not ready to make plans until she feels better. It's a perfectly fine thing to say, but she has consistently put things off and not been forthcoming with sharing things.


It sounds like maybe she thinks you are pushing too hard and fast (reading your posts it sounds like it to me too). Try backing off, if you're texting her every day then wait a couple of days and then check in with her. If you're too pushy that'll look a little desperate and needy to her.

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Oh, a friend of mine claimed that I should ask for the diamond in W's engagement ring back now, since it was a family heirloom from my grandmother. I had never considered asking for it back, is that normal? I find it stranger that she still has my wedding ring, but asking for that back seems awkward as well.


So I did some research into this back when my ex took her wedding ring back. At least here in the US, an engagement ring is considered a gift and by law it's hers to keep UNLESS she breaks off the marriage BEFORE it happens. A wedding ring on the other hand is considered marital property and is subject to equitable division in divorce.

EDIT- I should have added you can of course ask her for it back and see what she says. Just because the law says it's hers doesn't mean she might not be swayed by the fact that it's a family heirloom.



Last edited by AnotherStander; 05/06/19 08:30 PM.

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Davide,

give Ms. Infatuation one more date. Hell, you could even bust out the sex panther cologne. And if she still doesn't warm up, time to move on eh? I will say your updates are always interesting to read.

As for the ring, if it is a family heirloom, it would be weird for your STBXW to keep it in my opinion.


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neffer, tengo ganas de volver al cono sur. No sé si puede pasar este verano, pero volveré. L
Te debo unas birras cuando nos veamos.

AS,. Yep, I need patience and to back off some. I was getting ahead of myself and pushing too hard. You can't force this stuff.

Ovr, I am actually glad to hear that there is some entertainment value in my updates. So much of what is shared on here is so raw and painful and at times even triggering. Reading and responding to that is the important work but every now and again a lighter break can be helpful. Also, I want the newcomers to see that it does get better with time, even if the MR doesn't survive.

Regarding the ring -- I'm not worried about legal questions, just ethical ones. It's complicated. The diamond was my grandmother's, who passed away 6 months before we got engaged. I didn't even know about it until my mom offered it to me, so it's not really sentimental to me, but it was part of the family. The ring itself is a special flower design that I asked W's sister to design, so that's probably more meaningful to W. So, I dunno. I don't actually care that much, but I do t want to avoid the conversation simply because it is !very) awkward.


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Any time you want D. It´s just making a call. I´m here.


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So the paperwork arrived in the mail yesterday. I was expecting it, but there was still a jolt when I saw the envelope with my own handwriting.

I am definitely processing it emotionally. It brought up some anger some sadness. It clearly doesn't change anything, but it is a normal reaction. I miss the life I had, but I recognize that it is over. It's ok to be sad/angry that I have lost that. I won't dwell on it too long.

I was on a non-date on Wed with the woman from my uni, and we went climbing. She had never done it, but was quite good. It was fun and low pressure since we did it as friends. Afterwards we had a beer and chatted for a bit. There was some awkwardness as I ran into one of my old dates at the gym. And then saw EW there as well (though we didn't cross paths).

I'd really like to get out and GAL this weekend but my options seem to be limited.No plans with the other prof yet this weekend. I have cut back on communication, but she is always very happy to text. If she doesn't set a plan to meet by the end of the weekend I think I'll move on. I don't need texting buddies. Unfortunately, my phone got wet earlier this week and finally died last night so I can't communicate with her or much of anyone else. I hate my reliance on technology.


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Cut down on the texting with the prof. If you want to see her, take the lead and make it happen. If she rebuffs you, move on and stop texting.

Feel ya on the jolts with the paperwork. It's the last bits of your emotions around the M. Good on ya for the climbing as a non-date. the low pressure interactions are so important to just reset and have fun. I am a couple of weeks out from climbing and it's finally happening soon. Can't wait to go back.

Stay grounded. I know lots is happening with life, work, and romance.


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Abrazo grande hermano!

Live the present. Look at the future. Past is past.

((((Davide))))


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Rough weekend. It felt like the arrival of the divorce papers ripped the scab off of the wound and exposed it to the fresh air once again. I felt emotions that I hadn't struggled with in quite some time. It certainly wasn't with the same intensity as before, I described it as the smoldering embers rather the full-fledged conflagration that consumed me just over a year ago. Still, they hurt to touch.

It was also lonely. All of my friends in town were hanging out at a party with EW and her man, my dates dried up (mainly by my own accord) and I was left to process all of these emotions mainly by myself. I got out on Saturday climbing for a good three hours. I also went out to yoga on my bike. Just getting the mile and a half there was epic because of the sheet of rain and roaring streams where there should be streets. I was so drenched from those ten minutes that I had to change before yoga! I also made it back out to yoga on Sunday morning, and then did a three hour social bike ride. All this to say that I didn't just sit around the house and mope all weekend.

I called a friend on the other coast looking for someone to commisserate with. He's a very close friend but it is hard to stay in touch bc of the distance and the fact he has two little ones under the age of four. He let me know that his wife has breast cancer. Thankfully only stage one, but even that must be terrifying to deal with. Especially with little kids. It definitely have me a big of a reality check about the insignificance of my problems.

My Prof bailed on weekend plans again, and I was oh so close to snapping and writing a note telling her that I was out. But she mentioned that she was going through a family situation, so when I finally responded a day later I simply wished her the best with the family situation and told her she knew where to find me if she wanted to meet up. She immediately responded and we ended up talking on the phone for a good 40 minutes. Turns out her mom is in the hospital for what seems to be some very serious tests (she already survived two rounds of cancer) and this is halfway around the world, so she is freaking out with worry. We had a very cathartic talk about that, and I told her about my struggles dealing with the finality of the divorce. She, along with a number of other people in my life, expressed surprise that I wasn't celebrating the fact, overjoyed to be out of a bad marriage. But she was also very understanding when I explained my perspective. It was the first time that I feel like she made herself truly vulnerable with me and expressed real emotion, and I'm glad. I still need to do a better job of checking my expectations at the door. At this point I just want to spend time with her to get to know her better and to see if this initial fit can hold up.


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You are aware, assured, and positive. You are doing well my friend.

Keep up the good work. I've found that the harder we work the luckier we become.

And screw the OM. Hahaha always got to say that!

Does everything being finalized help you move on?


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Thanks Ovr,

I appreciate the kind words even if I don't consider myself quite so advanced. I think that the most important thing I have learned is to be confident that I can ride out these low moments. When BD first happens it felt like they would swallow me up and I would never come out the other side. Now, I trust my ability to stay afloat despite the shifting tides.

I try not to dwell on OM mainly because I am disappointed in myself. I haven't been able to shake all of my anger towards him. I would love to be at a place of indifference, but I'm not there yet. It continues to bug me that close friends of mine still associate with him. I need to let that go. It's not my burden to carry.

Everything isn't quite finalized yet. I still need to draw up a quit claim deed to transfer the house out of EW's name, and then we need to go together to get it notarized, and I then I will write her a check to buy her out. I was going to pay her off in parts because it is a lot of money, but at this point I just want it to be over with and I can (barely) afford to do so. That said, I think the last two months of going through the divorce process have been harder than earlier because I have once again been forced to confront the old emotions and lingering ties in my head. Perhaps when it is completely done it will be easier?


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It was an emotional day the day my D was final but it also felt like a huge weight had been lifted off of my shoulders as well. I did experience some old emotions as well as it felt like some old wounds/scabs had been picked at again.

That said once I got through that day I felt my levels of detachment drastically increase. Hopefully you will feel the same.


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Stay strong there brother. Be proud of your journey. Time heals everything. Keep the good memories man and keep on moving forward like you have been doing.

It gets easier over time. You know that D.

Be proud of what you´ve done Davide. Keep doing it!

(((D)))


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You are too hard on yourself D. You have come an incredibly long way since you first joined the boards. Your M is officially ending. A piece of paper maybe, but it is also a final reminder of the hopes and dreams you both had when you stood on front of friends and family and vowed to love one another till the end of your days. Saying goodbye to those hopes and dreams is a huge step. I would think you heartless if it did not hurt.

Yorkie says something similar in her thread. I don't know if you keep up with her sitch so I will summarise where she is at now. Like you, Yorkie is in the final stages of her D. She is building a life and has long since let go. I think once it is finally done, she will wish her H well. A few weeks back, on a trip with a friend to Italy, she broke down in tears. Uncontrollable, irrational tears. She missed her life with her H, even though rationally she knew it was a lie and not a life at all. After some soul searching she came to the realisation these were not the same hysterical tears that she had post BD, they were not driven by loss or fear, but by sadness. She was saying goodbye.

I understand what you are feeling. I wish often that there could be a pill to make me forget how much I loved him so that I did not have to feel the constant numb ache in my chest. But indifference is the opposite of love. Let her go with love.

Re your friends. By remaining friendly with the OM, they are choosing not to take sides. On some level you have to respect them for that.

Hugs D


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Hi folks,

It has been an up and down couple of weeks. The school year is coming to a close which is great because it means summer vacation is coming, but it also means that students are checking out and going crazy. Last year I ended the school year in a complete daze, I think I was pretty much in shock the final two months of the year. This year, it is just hard. My summer plans are very much up in the air, though i will be sure to get out of town for a good bit of it. I was going to travel with a Colombian friend, and still might, but it is up in the air. I'll also head up north to visit family at the beach and friends for at least a week or two. I am debating buying a car, since those and weekend trips out of town would be much easier if I had one. I like not relying on one to get around town, and I can do 90-95% of my life without one, but that last little bit is definitely tricky.

Physically I am feeling so strong, probably the strongest I have ever been in my life. It is amazing to feel a vitality at over 40 that surpasses my younger self. I used to run, and 11 years ago I was in the best running shape of my life, I ran a half marathon at 6 minute mile pace (no great shakes for some, but a friggin miracle for me!) But even then, I was super thin and my body was always right on the edge of breaking down. With the biking and yoga and climbing it just feels more solid - I am building a strong base from my core and the strength emanates out from there. Those things have been my GAL, been my rock, been my social life for the past year. No matter how low I am feeling, I force myself out to do them, and I almost always feel better. Action precedes motivation - that mantra still rings true to me.

Last weekend I went back and read through all of my posts for the first time in a comprehensive way. It was difficult to read. I also realized that I tend to post here in lower moments, while the better times tend to go unremarked upon. So, I want to assure everyone that I am not as depressed as I might come off her. I think the highlight of the reread was Sia or Nicole just ripping me a new one as I posted about a deep depression I fell into midsummer - my reaction at the time was to laugh because I knew that I had it coming! But there was also so much wisdom and support and love from so many folks. It really helped me get through those days.

My dating life has not been great. I stopped seeing other people because I was quite interested in the 2nd professor, and she seemed quite interested in me. However, things have stalled out. She likes me quite a bit (and has told me that) and we have a great connection and similar values. Whenever we get together we have a fabulous time and the conversation and time just flow. However, she a) thinks I am not ready for a relationship and b) is more than weirded out by the fact that I dated the other professor (whom she knows, and has some sort of history with, or so it seems.) I can't really control those two things and told her as much. I was about to write the whole thing off, but then we had a lovely 5 hour picnic and walk last Tuesday, and had air-clearing discussion about our concerns. It was a beautiful afternoon and evening, the kind you wish every date could be like. However, when i asked her out again for this weekend, she told me she couldn't. So I put the ball in her court letting her know that she can ask me out since her schedule is so packed. In the meantime I am beginning to look around and talk to others online again.

Last Thursday when I got home from my bike ride I got an unexpected and unwelcome surprise. A 6 page handwritten note from my EW. It was all about forgiveness and letting go, and her telling me how she forgives me, and lots of time spent asking me for my forgiveness for all the different things she did. It was definitely not a move towards reconciliation type letter, rather it was more of a farewell. Of course I haven't responded at all, but I am annoyed that it threw me off as much as it did. My first reaction was anger/annoyance because she is once again just taking an emotional dump upon me. it is so self-centered and focused on her emotional suffering with a blatant disregard for me. I have noticed this pattern with her, where she keeps coming back to me to help her resolve her own emotional trauma associated with the dissolution of the MR. Part of me wants to say that that she should talk to OM about that, but in reality the message she needs to learn is "Forgive yourself."

The other part that bothers me is that her rejection still stings. I'm not at the point where I can laugh it off. I can see it as needy and possibly a bit manipulative, but it still produces a reaction in me. I know that that note is all about her and has little to do with me, but I still give it some power to shake me. I want to be a like a tree. I want to be so centered and grounded that these gusts of wind from her, which may ruffle my leaves, can't touch my roots. I suppose that the only reason that it still has any power over me is that in some ways I am still holding on to the past. That is disappointing at this point. I think I'll head back to my IC whom i haven't seen in a while and try to work through it some more.

Time to keep plugging! There is no way around it, just through it!


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Time to go with the flow D. The flow of life. Enjoy the present, without anxieties. Stop that mind reading about professor, just take it as it comes. You have plenty of time. No place for hasty decisions. Go with the flow.

You are right. Forgiveness is inside of us. But we need to know ourselves to look for those answers. Knowing ourselves, loving ourselves. We spend the whole life searching for answers.

It´s logical to get some lows from XW attitude. But you´ll cycle up faster each time. You are a DBuster, you know that.

Onward and upward D!

You are the tree.


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D - those lows are just a part of our journey. Just because we miss them and just because their words still have the power to sting does not mean we are not moving on. You can miss someone and know them for what they are and not want them back. Emotions are complex things.

I cried yesterday watching a programme about a baby born addicted to heroin and refusing to feed. They explained that the baby needed to be held constantly, skin to skin; to calm down the withdrawal. I sat and wept. Because I so miss the warmth and comfort of him. Not the sex but that feeling of being held. Being the center of someone’s world. And I am detached. I have a full and (mostly) content life. It is ok to miss them. It is ok that we still feel their sting. Because we loved them. Because the wounds are still there, but not as exposed. Feel it, accept it, and then move on.

You are a wonderful, intelligent man. Full of warmth and compassion and love. This is why it hurts.


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Oh, and stop thinking about the ifs and the buts of your (fledging) relationships. Just be. If things are meant to be then they will be.

Well, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it !!


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Hey man! I know how some things can throw you off. Just remember that grief can come back up with small hits and it's part of the process. Maybe a decade later you might be fully immune to her actions and words. Just know that this is normal part of the journey and you're not regressing in your healing. I still get anxious when communicating with exW and I know it's going to take a long time for me to get to a complete place of 'meh'.

Sorry about the emotional pile of garbage she left you. That's totally unfair and it [censored]. She needs to deal with it herself instead of putting it on you. At this point, there is no reason to respond to her. There is no need to dredge up the past - too much water has gone under the bridge.

I know you've been diligent on the self-healing and stay on that path. Maybe a chat with an IC might help at this point. Keep flourishing and doing things in life for you.


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Thanks folks!

Neffer, you called it spot-on in terms of mind reading with the prof. Honestly I am feeling better about that now that I am out there chatting with other women. I was unwittingly bringing in expectations when I should not have been. If it is meant to work out, it will.

FS, Yep. I think you're right that the wounds because our love was so deep. I would have given my life for her for 7 years. But I think it's also residue of some unhealthy attachment, some codependence which is not the same as real love.

Maika! Thanks for stopping back in! It's always such a pleasure to hear from you. My day got off to a great start as I finally sent a v6 bouldering project that I had been working on for a week. That feeling of accomplishment is so so sweet.

You were so far ahead of me in this process, and such a strong, reflective DBer. I remember noting that even you had some down moments when something would set you back temporarily. I think resiliency and flexibility are key attributes in making progress, and you have them in spades. I strive towards the same. A year ago a note like that would have left me unable to function for weeks and sent my mind down a myriad of cheeseless tunnels. Now, I want to acknowledge the feelings, be with them, but also let them go.

I'll see if I can get in to see the IC. I have a wedding out of state this weekend so it might be tough. But I think a chat would help.


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Where to start on the updates?

(Long Story, skip to the end below if you prefer)

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How about a crazy story? I flew up to my hometown last weekend for a family wedding (my 3rd this school year!) On Sunday my flight home was at 2:30 but got delayed, then we got on the plane, then we didn't have enough gas and had to go back to the gate, then the crew hit their hours limit for the day, so we all had to get off. Finally at 6 or so, they tell us the flight is cancelled, they can give us a refund or they can put us on the next available flight... on Wednesday! I had work the next morning so that was out. On other airlines there were no flights for less than 600 dollars.

So I start asking people in line for refunds who were all on the flight, who is up for splitting a rental car and driving down. It is about 8-9 hours without traffic. I find three complete strangers and we head down to rent a car. It turns out two of the them are Spanish speakers, so I am happy to have the chance to chat. The one other guy is left out, but he slept most of the time he wasn't driving. One of the guys is a DACA recipient, a "dreamer" who came as a kid from El Salvador, studied philosophy in college and was on his way to getting ordained as a priest, but now is rushing back to my city to be on time in the kitchen he works at. Despite all the driving and the late, late night it was a fun adventure and a cool chance to interact with people whom I normally wouldn't get a chance to talk to. We finally got in to the airport to drop off the rental car at 3:50 in the morning.

That was when the adventure really started. I have no car currently, just a moped, and I had left that at the covered deck at the airport. But I was planning on arriving mid-afternoon and my front headlight had blown out, not a big deal for mid-afternoon, but not great at night. I decided that I was too exhausted to spend any more time at the airport, so I hopped on and set out right then sans headlights. The roads were very well lit and there was no traffic around so I wasn't worried for my safety, but I was paranoid about the police pulling me over and fining me and possibly taking the moped. At one point I passed some cops who had pulled someone over and I held my breathe the whole time. The rest of the ride my eyes are straining to identify the very few oncoming cars, trying to discern if they have police lights atop them or not. It's more stress on top of an already long and stressful night.

Finally, I'm about 2 miles from home when I pull up to a red light and get flagged down by a guy on foot. It's a little disconcerting to get flagged down at that hour (4:15 a.m.) on a moped with no protection, plus my brain is still woozy from lack of sleep. He comes up to me and says, "Can you call 911? I am suicidal and homicidal and a threat to myself and others." He says it calmly, matter-of-factly, with no aggression or impairment. Still, it is jarring and frightening to hear that from another person in the dead of night on a solitary road, on an exposed vehicle. He also tells me that he attacked or kicked another car that refused to call 911 for him. So, I tell him sure, but that I'm going to pull ahead a little and that he should just wait at the intersection. I proceed to call and give the information to the police, but as I'm doing that he calmly walks over to where I am pulled over. He hands me his id card so i can identify him, and tells me what he is wearing as the police are asking for a description. He's just a kid, 19 years old, five feet tall. They ask if he has any weapons and he tells me no. He is still totally calm and collected. Finally they ask if I am going to wait with him for the police to show up and I tell them no (I'm both a little sketched out and still wary of interacting with the police with my headlight out.) But before I can go, a cruiser pulls up behind me, and shortly thereafter an ambulance. The kid tells the cop that he just got released from the hospital and has overdosed on his pills and gives a list of all the pills he has taken. When the cop asks when, he looks at his watch and says five minutes ago. He repeats the part about being a threat to himself and other and tells the cop about attacking the other car. He then asks if he can ask which hospital to go to, and says his preference is a hospital 20 miles away in a suburban town. I am both amazed and bewildered by how calm and collected he is. What kind of situation is he in that he is so desperate to get checked into a psychiatric ward? Finally, I ask the cop if I can leave and take off. It's about 4:40 a.m. when I finally get home.

It's a crazy story and an experience I won't soon forget. I am left wondering how bad things must be to make you approach strangers in the middle of the night in order to get into a hospital and off the streets. I hope the kid gets the help he needs and doesn't simply become a statistic. I'm also grateful that I haven't reached that point yet.


In other news, I had my final official interaction with my EW yesterday. It was the first time we have interacted in months, and the first since the D became official. We met at a notary to sign the quitclaim deed that transferred the ownership of the house into my name alone. I also gave her the check to buy out her portion of the house. She gave me her key to the house and the wedding ring which she had kept. She also tried to give back the engagement ring, but I refused it. She was tearful throughout the process, walking away after signing the deed so that she could cry. When we sat down on a bench outside afterwards to exchange the ring/check/key she was also emotional. It was hard. My father just celebrated his 75th birthday and she had written him a letter. I asked her to please not contact my family, and she burst in to tears, asking if they hated her that much. I told her no, that it was for me. I was calm and composed, with my guard up throughout the conversation. There is no point in making myself vulnerable to her at this point. I know that I came across as a bit cold and business-like in the face of her emotion. But what would have been the point in allowing myself to be emotional there? I was hurting for sure, but that isn't her problem any more than her sadness is mine.

The school year just ended which is both great (no stress) and frightening (lots of time to ruminate). Last year I embarked on an epic road trip which was a great project. This year, I have yet to make any plans. I'd like to get up to Alaska to visit a friend, but it seems like a pipe dream at the moment. I may buy a car, but my financial situation is tighter than I would like after buying my EW out of the house. That precludes any easy road trips to the mountains unless I rent a vehicle. Right now my goal is to practice yoga every day, to read a book or two a week, to clean up the house from top to bottom, to take care of the yard.

Dating has been rather lame. I've given up on the 2nd professor. We exchange some texts but in my mind that's not going anywhere so I don't worry about it. I was chatting with one very interesting doctor, but she freaked out when I texted her and woke her at 11 p.m. during a week that she was on call. I always turn my phone off when I go to bed, so it didn't occur to me that it could be an issue. She ignored me at first and then when I followed up, she expressed her (great) annoyance and called off the date we had planned. Perhaps I dodged a bullet there. I did go on two dates this week but both were flops with no chemistry. I have also been surprised by the number of women that have responded to initial inquiries, started conversations, and then ghosted - five or six just in the last couple of weeks. It's a bit disheartening.

I am grateful for this forum for the opportunity to share these feelings. It's a good outlet, and I hope that I provide some entertainment/amusement for others as they navigate these difficult times.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
D official 5/7/2019
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 921
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Originally Posted by Davide
There is no point in making myself vulnerable to her at this point. I know that I came across as a bit cold and business-like in the face of her emotion. But what would have been the point in allowing myself to be emotional there? I was hurting for sure, but that isn't her problem any more than her sadness is mine.


We all put this emotional armour on to protect ourselves. Necessary - no-one wants to be back where we were, curled up in that foetal position with their world imploding around us. But, D, recognise it for what it is. It is self preservation and not strength. To truly move forward you have to re-open your heart and be willing to be vulnerably. Maybe just not to the people who blew up our worlds.

I too am a little dishearten at the dating thing. It's been two weeks for me, four dates, and a shed load of inappropriate men trying to 'chat' to me. Not one has been over 40. One had chemistry but was way way way too young, and the other, in their late 30's (who is lovely) I feel no attraction to, another asked if he could 'lick my [censored]' and the last one lived like he was a uni student (even though he was in his 30's). What I wouldn't give for a normal person. I suspect men in their 40's are not interested in women in their 40's.

I am sorry to say I am probably one of those who will respond to initial inquiries and then ghost. If it helps, these are the reasons I ghost:

1. They are far too intense. One wanted to "meet and start a relationship'. When I said I was happy to meet and then see if there was commonality, he said "you are only here to date lots of people'.
2. They don't have much to say and concentrate on my appearance "you are really hot", "you have a great body", 'you blah blah blah"

What I want:

1. Evidence that you can carry a conversation - ask about my photos, ask about my profile, ask me how my day is going - and I will do the same
2. Suggest something different to do - climbing, swimming, comedy show, play - to take the pressure off.
3. Show that you have a life - talk about climbing, yoga, teaching etc. I want to know that your life is complete, with or without a partner.

Anyway, good luck.

And as a member of this forum who has benefited from your advice and support, I am grateful that you are here.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

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Please start a new thread and link both threads together.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
D official 5/7/2019
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