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DV,

your H is like most people, including most of us on the DB board, in that we don't have all the skills necessary to have great relationships. My W has said the same things, that R should just come naturally and not be work. Obviously she and your H are coming from a perspective of pain and avoidance, and doing work to repair the damage they've caused is scary for many reasons. They'll come to grip with it in their own time.

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Feeling a bit better tonight. I think it helps that I was pretty busy for most of the night. Less time to think.
YES! So true. Are you exercising too? I find it can help you feel better, look better, and sleep better. You could involve the kids in something like this too...

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I asked my MIL if she thinks that anyone really knows my H and she said she doesn’t think so. Like me, she thinks there are people who know bits and pieces but no one who really KNOWS him. She would have thought that I am the person who knows him best but clearly that was not the case.
Your H is going to find out that you are talking to "his" family. He is going to see this as pressure. He doesn't want to tell his mom what he's doing and why, that's scary to him. And he doesn't want to stop what he's doing either, right? I just don't have a good feeling about talking to his mom.

Are you communicating and having fun with "your" family, friends, and support group?


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

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Originally Posted by DV6
If he had been able to be vulnerable and tell me what he was going through as opposed to expecting me to be a mind reader, I would have moved heaven and earth to fix things.


yeah DV6 the mind reader issue. had that exactly as well.

when, admittedly rarely, there was an attempt between myself and W to discuss her unhappiness i received "i shouldn't have to tell you/explain it to you, you should be able to figure it out" IC said to me that is the mindset and emotional immaturity of a 16yo girl.

the whole character trait of being able to be vulnerable to express to your partner what it truly is/was you needed from a relationship. again i simply had zero idea that such a thing even existed OR was important to have a successful long term relationship. i got the crap kicked out of me pain wise through this loss, but i did for sure learn way more than i ever knew existed and perhaps more than i'm adequately able to process and understand.


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DejaVu6 Offline OP
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Just got a rather pleasant logistics-type text from my H starting with "Happy Friday Afternoon :)" and ending with "Hope your clients are treating you well. :)" Why does my heart ache so much when I get these? He is just so d*mn happy while he is breaking our family apart. I mean, what is up with all these smiley faces? Does he just live in a completely different world than me? I miss him like crazy and he is perfectly content without me. How can he not miss me? I was his BEST friend for years. We have been through so much together and shared so many good times before he became the person he is now. Sometimes I think it would be so much easier if he had just died instead of this. Isn't that ridiculous? Man do I wish I had his talent for leaving people. It really is amazing how easily he seems to do it.

So I feel like I am backsliding a bit here. [You think Captain Obvious?] This week has been one of my saddest yet and I've had some pretty bad weeks. I keep telling myself this is just the pain of my heart preparing to finally let go... once and for all. And then there is the fear of being alone for the rest of my life. And then also the fear of meeting someone who seems great and then falling for him only to find out he is as messed up as my H or even worse. I'm not sure I could take going through this again. It is the WORST pain I have EVER felt and sometimes it seems like it is never going to end.

I am just so mad at myself, truth be told. Yes my H has been King Douche of Douchebag Land but he wasn't always like that. I knew years ago that I was losing him in my heart of hearts but I was just too scared to address it and maybe if I had when I first felt this way, we could have done something to fix it before he was so far gone. Ironically, by giving into my fears and not talking to my H the way I should have, the thing I feared the most has come to pass. And it hurts worse than I had even imagined it would. Gosh I feel so pathetic right now. Honestly. Where is my self respect? He is gone and most people in my shoes would say "good riddance" but not me. Seriously...there must be something wrong with me deep down that I can give away so much of my own power to someone.

I know... I'm spinning right now. I would be the first one to give someone else crap about that. Somehow writing out my worst thoughts help. I know I am not going to die from this. I know there are better days ahead. I know that who my H is now is not someone I should even want to be in an R with. My head is totally on straight about all of this. It's my heart that is struggling. Yesterday, my sister called me to tell me some interesting news and my first thought after we hung up was that I wanted to call my H and tell him. But then I remembered. He is not that person for me anymore. Sadly, even when he was apparently hating me from afar, he was still that person for me and I was still that person for him. Good news, bad news...we were each other's first call... right up until BD. Thirteen years gone...in the blink of an eye.

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DejaVu6 Offline OP
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Saw your posts after my last one. Thanks you Ovrrnbw & Ballast.

Originally Posted by Ovrrnbw
Your H is going to find out that you are talking to "his" family. He is going to see this as pressure. He doesn't want to tell his mom what he's doing and why, that's scary to him. And he doesn't want to stop what he's doing either, right? I just don't have a good feeling about talking to his mom.


I don't think there is added pressure on my H from talking to his mom. They never talk about things and there is not much I can say to her that she hasn't observed directly herself. She has been with us for the entirety of our relationship. Regardless, we don't talk nearly as much as we did when all this first started. You have to remember, my H lied to her as much as he lied to me and she was the one who was helping me with everything when he was away at his "treatments". She has her own issues with him. She is a really good person and not bitter or resentful. She supports me but I know would not get involved by trying to intervene on my behalf. She may, however, one day have a conversation with him about how much he hurt HER...but then again, she may not. Anyway.. I have honestly really cut down on our convos. And I do get support from my family and friends but I am trying not to talk to them as much either. I know that they are thinking I should just get over it so I don't like bothering them when I am having a tough day. Generally I just mostly post on this board.

RE: exercise. Been a bit lax on that lately. It is on my list.

Ballast - Everything you wrote resonated with me. That is my H. He wants movie love (which we had in the beginning) and expects it to last without any effort from him. The stupid part is that he really made an effort in the beginning... I mean the guy wrote a song for me on the ferry ride home after our second date. But it just didn't seem like it was an effort. That's the part he doesn't get. In his memory it was effortless but in actuality, it wasn't. It just wasn't an effort to make an effort...if that makes any sense.

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Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I miss him like crazy and he is perfectly content without me. How can he not miss me? I was his BEST friend for years. We have been through so much together and shared so many good times before he became the person he is now. Sometimes I think it would be so much easier if he had just died instead of this.


I get the feeling that W would be perfectly content without me, even if that is 100% not true. She said that she isn’t sure she’d be happier with anyone else, just that she’s not happy with me. I do think about all that she and I went through—the good and bad. I feel a thought similar to yours, but instead directed my way—that things would be easier for her / us if I got called home, and she could have her life without me. I know it’s incredibly sad, but the thought has occurred to me many times before today.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
So I feel like I am backsliding a bit here. [You think Captain Obvious?] This week has been one of my saddest yet and I've had some pretty bad weeks.


I’m with you—totally backsliding, into a long weekend where we all be home together. For me, though, I just know things are going to get much, much worse before things really start to improve.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
And then there is the fear of being alone for the rest of my life. And then also the fear of meeting someone who seems great and then falling for him only to find out he is as messed up as my H or even worse. I'm not sure I could take going through this again. It is the WORST pain I have EVER felt and sometimes it seems like it is never going to end.


I don’t necessarily have that fear of being alone—at least not yet. I know I’m broken, but can be fixed and improved, and am working on it, piece-by-piece, day-by-day. I do know that I can be really good for someone down the road (MR 2.0, or someone else in time). Some days on this forum I probably sound irrationally confident that I can move on and like I may have an inflated sense of self and self-worth—I’m trying to PMA. W has held up the possibility of recon down the road—but I’m not sure how much I should trust her about that, and I really struggle with being sure I want that, because I know I can’t have THIS MR, or have her in the current state that she is in right now.

But I am worried about what if we D and I find someone new, and things fall apart (don’t want to make the same mistakes), or what if W and I ever get to recon and piecing? What do I really want here?

Honestly, DV, you sound really wonderful—and I’m sorry we all have to go through this. I’m sure you’ll find someone amazing, in time.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I am just so mad at myself, truth be told.

Ironically, by giving into my fears and not talking to my H the way I should have, the thing I feared the most has come to pass. And it hurts worse than I had even imagined it would. Gosh I feel so pathetic right now. Honestly. Where is my self respect? He is gone and most people in my shoes would say "good riddance" but not me. Seriously...there must be something wrong with me deep down that I can give away so much of my own power to someone.


Like you as well, I am so so mad at myself. I feel like I have only myself to blame—that all the bad things she said I said and did have total merit, and that I’m the world’s worst husband. How could I have done these things to her? Why didn’t I listen like she wanted? Why didn’t I help like she wanted? How could I have hurt her so bad? Why did I do this to her, to us?

W last night said that both of us are responsible to an extent for what has happened—but all I’m hearing from her is how I’m this and that and the other. I never wanted to be at this point, either, but here we are. My self-respect fluctuates—some days I feel unstoppable, that I got this, that I’ll totally bounce back—other days, I feel so so low. But yeah—how could I have given so much power to another, that I struggle to see my own goodness and worth?

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I know... I'm spinning right now....Somehow writing out my worst thoughts help. I know I am not going to die from this. I know there are better days ahead. I know that who my H is now is not someone I should even want to be in an R with.


Same. Totally spinning. It’s been a rainy / cloudy / dreary week in SoCal, and that doesn’t help. Also W and I have had some very tense, highly-charged convos this week.

Like you, writing out my thoughts help, which is why I post so much, in terms of number of posts, but also in terms of length.

I know, ultimately, I won’t die from this, and I hope to come out better from this—that there are better days ahead, for me, potentially with W, or with someone else in time.

I’ve gone back and forth with how much I even want to be in a relationship with W right now—she is so much not herself that it’s not even funny.

(((HUGS)))

Last edited by Bo562; 01/18/19 10:05 PM.

M: 36
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DejaVu6 Offline OP
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(((Bo)))

Originally Posted by Bo562
I feel a thought similar to yours, but instead directed my way—that things would be easier for her / us if I got called home, and she could have her life without me. I know it’s incredibly sad, but the thought has occurred to me many times before today.


Of course I would not want my H to die but I think that the finality of death would make my path clear and it would not be littered with all these feelings of rejection. That is the biggest hurt. It is not that my H is not with me because I was alone a lot. Rather, it is because my H CHOOSES to not be with me despite having soooo many good reasons to have tried to make things work not the least of which is giving our kids the benefit of growing up in a two-parent home (and studies have shown that there is a HUGE benefit to that unless, of course, it is an abusive environment). He would rather go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt and live pay cheque to pay cheque once again (and those years S*CKED!!!) than to try to make things work with someone who he once claimed to be "madly" in love with and promised to cherish her "for the rest of my [his] life". #epicfail... on both our parts.

Originally Posted by Bo562
W has held up the possibility of recon down the road—but I’m not sure how much I should trust her about that, and I really struggle with being sure I want that, because I know I can’t have THIS MR, or have her in the current state that she is in right now.


Just the fact that there might be a possibility, I think, is a reason for hope. It doesn't mean that you count on it but it does show SOME uncertainty on her part. My H only showed uncertainty for the first couple of weeks and even said he was coming home at one time but once he decided he wasn't, that was it. Full speed ahead. Let's divide our finances and move this along... got more important things to do. End of story. Never been more sure of anything in his life, it would seem. So my little pity party really is all for naught. At this point, I am just torturing myself.

Originally Posted by Bo562
I don’t necessarily have that fear of being alone—at least not yet. I know I’m broken, but can be fixed and improved, and am working on it, piece-by-piece, day-by-day. I do know that I can be really good for someone down the road (MR 2.0, or someone else in time).


I think I would feel more optimistic about this if I was younger. I was 32 when my first marriage ended. I was single, living on my own and loving life for five years before I met my H. I didn't do a whole lot of dating the first few years as I wasn't divorces yet but after my divorce, I got into the OLD world and had a lot of fun. I think my H was the fifth guy I went out with. I got along great with the other four guys but that certain something was missing... when I met my H, that was it for me. "Love at first sight". For him too. I had never had that before with someone. With my first H, it was a friendship that slowly grew into something more and we were together five years before we got engaged. After our split, I told myself that I wanted to be deeply in love in my next longterm relationship and I wanted him to be as well.

In hindsight, maybe we went too fast. I met him in May 2005, he moved in with me for the summer, I found a job on the mainland and moved in with him in September and we got engaged in December of that same year. We married in March 2007 and I got pregnant three months later. We had planned and been prepared for (mentally & financially) one child and then we had twins. Life changed dramatically and I think we really underestimated the impact on our MR. The first couple years were pretty good but after that... life just became very routine and mundane and we stopped taking care of each other and just took care of the kids. Fast forward 13 years and now I'm 50, almost 51, and living in a much smaller community. Most men my age are looking to reclaim their youth so are wanting younger women. I, myself, have always looked younger than my age so have always dated men who are five to seven years younger than me. Of course, the last time I dated I was in my mid-30s. Anyway...suffice it to say, the chances of me finding someone for a longterm relationship (serial dating just does not appeal to me) is pretty slim. Also, I've been watching this show lately called "Dates From Hell" and I have to say, there are some real nut cases out there. And the scary part is that they don't come with a warning sign. Most of them look pretty good at the beginning.

Originally Posted by Bo562
My self-respect fluctuates—some days I feel unstoppable, that I got this, that I’ll totally bounce back—other days, I feel so so low.


^^^^^^^^ Exactly...me too!!!

Originally Posted by Bo562
Honestly, DV, you sound really wonderful—and I’m sorry we all have to go through this. I’m sure you’ll find someone amazing, in time.


Awww...thanks Bo. I sure wish I had your confidence. I am much more confident that you will. smile

Originally Posted by Bo562
Also W and I have had some very tense, highly-charged convos this week.


The good news is that you are still having them. My H and I are past that. No more talking for us. It's all over but the crying...at least for him. I'm still catching up.

Originally Posted by Bo562
I’ve gone back and forth with how much I even want to be in a relationship with W right now—she is so much not herself that it’s not even funny.


I think that is to be expected given everything that has happened. Luckily you don't really need to figure that out right now. There is lots that would have to happen for that decision to even be made. Keep DBing. Do your 180s and GAL activities. Practice kindness when you can yet establish your boundaries. Try to act instead of react. There is still a good chance for MR 2.0 if you both do the work. You can only do your part though. I think if you do and there comes a time when you need to make that decision, you will know what is best for you and your family.

(((HUGS)))

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Fluctuation is very normal early on. Eventually the good days will outweigh the bad. You can hang on to hope as long as you want as long as it does not prevent you from moving forward. I analyzed everything early on, I should have done this, I wish I said this, how did it come to this, etc. in the end none of it mattered as my Xw was full steam ahead with seemingly no regard for family and our young daughters. What I learned was that I can’t put my values and beliefs on her. It takes two to get married but only one to end it. Sad but true. Looking in the rear view mirror at the bad will prevent you from moving forward to the light. Ultimate self care and doing what makes you happy is of utmost importance at this time. Do what makes you feel good.

I was with my Xw for 17 years and we have two beautiful daughters that will never grow up with an intact family. I am determined though that they see me happy, healthy, and being there for them. Making their lives as normal, loving, and as positive as I can make it. I always try to remember as horrible as it has been there is always someone that has it worse than me.

You will be happy again, you will find love again, and your kids will be just fine. Even though I still have some anger and resentment towards my x I am determined that my daughters will never feel awkward around me and their mom. I never talk bad about their mom, we always sit next to each others their events, and still have joint birthday parties. If you handle yourself with honesty, dignity, and respect they will come through this. This is something that I take great pride in no matter how my x is behaving.

I did not date for a year after my x left and it was the best year of my life. You deserve someone that wants to be with you. I rediscovered myself, learned and accepted my contributions to the failure of the marriage, and realized that I am a whole person that can be happy alone.

1 step at a time, 1 second at a time, 1 minute at a time. Try to stay present in the moment.


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DV,

Joseph is exactly right. You are still very early on if your BD was in mid September. I remember being 4 months in, and it felt like an eternity (time is relative after all!) but in reality it takes that long and even longer for most people to even begin to come to terms with their new reality. It's not like some switch will flip and you will be "over" it but you will start to have better moments, then better minutes, then better hours, and finally better days and even better weeks. It's not like a switch will flip but eventually you will notice that those uncontrollable cycles of thoughts are less common or even completely gone, that you are thinking more of the future than of the past. The hardest part when you are "in it" is recognizing that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You have a bright future out there if you open yourself up to it.

You have the strength to get through this, never doubt that. It will get easier.


W 34 Me 42
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DejaVu6 Offline OP
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Thank you Joseph and Davide.

I know that I will get through this. No matter what has happened to me in my life, I have always managed to take the high road and act in ways that are consistent with my core values. My H is testing that to the max, for sure. I have already had lot of better moments, hours and days so I know they will come again. I felt better last night and again this morning. I also am fully aware that there are many people out there who have it worse than me... many of whom post on this board. I am blessed. There are lots of people in my corner rooting for me. My H used to be one of those people but he hasn’t been for years and I need to accept that. For all intent and purposes, that H has been dead for years. Now I am just dealing with his ghost.

I don’t know about finding love again. This experience has really shaken my confidence in my ability to judge someone’s character and I am worried about potentially exposing my kids to someone who will ultimately hurt me and/or them. Don’t know if I can bring myself to trust someone again.

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Originally Posted by Joseph9
You deserve someone that wants to be with you. I rediscovered myself, learned and accepted my contributions to the failure of the marriage, and realized that I am a whole person that can be happy alone.

1 step at a time, 1 second at a time, 1 minute at a time. Try to stay present in the moment.


^^^^^^This. I have realized this recently, and the feeling is stronger and stronger all the time. I am truly enjoying living my life and doing the things I like to do and connecting with nice people. I have no plans to look for anyone now, and I find I don't need it. While I still have hopes that one day H will want to heal, I'm not counting on it. It was only after diving into intense self-reflection that I started living for myself and stopped worrying what H is doing. Those thoughts are becoming more fleeting.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I don’t know about finding love again. This experience has really shaken my confidence in my ability to judge someone’s character and I am worried about potentially exposing my kids to someone who will ultimately hurt me and/or them. Don’t know if I can bring myself to trust someone again.


Finding love again I believe should be put on the back burner for some time to come, and not worth wasting energy pondering it at this time. As for the trust, yes, I think this will be the most difficult this for me too. The singles in my age group (50s) will have their own baggage and their own spin on it. If I do decide to find another partner some day, I will be very, very choosy. But, the one thing about becoming a whole, happy person for yourself, you find you don't necessarily need someone else to live a fulfilling life. That's the place I want to be.


M: 56
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