Brave Little Gerda Faces the Cutting Winds

[Gerda]

Previous Thread:

Brave Little Gerda, So Chilled She Could Not Speak


http://hca.gilead.org.il/snow_que.html

[Westo]

Dear dear Gerda,

Thank you for your words of support. It means a lot.

I asked you if the emails sounded like H because I did wonder if he had, over time, been heavily influenced by the Godfather and that maybe the emails had been written by the GF and then edited by H.

As the above is not the case, I can’t decide if he’s mad or perfectly sane. However, from reading his diatribes, I’m sorry to say, that to me, he is not going to ‘wake up’.

I think you have to stop ‘standing’ for a marriage he says he’s not in, and hasn’t been for a long time.

I don’t even think he is in MLC anymore, I just think he wants out. I can’t see any hope at all. I’m sorry Gerda but I honestly think you have to let H go for your own sanity.

Even if by some miracle he did ‘wake up’ and wanted a reconciliation the words he’s said and written will never be erased from your mind. I’m finding R hard enough, and my H has never said or done the things I’ve read that others have done on this forum. Would you really, really want to put yourself through that?.

I always told myself I would stand by H and his MLC for two years from BD. I knew after that time, either the relationship with OW would end or grow deeper. Or at the very least H would know whether he wanted a reconciliation with me or not.

It’s five years down the line for you and he’s still the same. It’s your life too, you know.

Job has given you valuable advice (as always) and DnJ. Please let go and take care of you and the kids.

Set H free......and yourself (((Gerda)))

[Coly23]

(((Gerda))) I just want to give you a big hug. What you have to put up with I just can't comprehend.

I read the email from H and agree with Westo. I just can't believe anyone writes or speaks like that anymore, it's insane!! If his dissertation is in fact written like that I can't imagine anyone actually having the stomach to read it all the way through!!

His emails/letters are such hard work to read I actually can't finish them and I am sorry to say it's a lot of tripe (British for rubbish)! To be honest with you and I'm sorry if I offend you, but if I got a letter like that my response would be one very childish word.... "Whatever!"

Please don't think I am trivialising your sitch. It breaks my heart that you have to put up with this but you need to start making him realise that his letters are ridiculous and have no power over you and just return to sender! In fact maybe next you could respond "In English please!!!".

Huge, huge hugs Gerda... Xx

[DnJ]

Hello Gerda

There was a lot of thought put into your post, I liked it. Well done.

Good for you figuring out what you want - what you would like. I do agree with the idea to speak with your Dad about early inheritance money. I am probably going to harp about this till your sick about it - speak to L about this. If your Dad agrees, be careful when, how, and where you save and use these funds. In certain situations they would become marital assets, meaning your H would get half of that inheritance. It is safest to only get funds after everything is settled. Ensure you talk to L before doing anything. (Maybe I should bold face that) lol

I am glad you are thinking about what you are willing to fight for. It’s good that you see a possible advantage in striking if the iron is still hot. I’m not sure it still is, but you will find out in time. Again, negotiating a settlement would be better than a big fight, talk to L about your wishes.

Custody is looking like it is going to be an issue. Let your L deal with it. Let her find the best deal for you.

Good for you seeing that you need to make a deal juicy enough for him to want to give up something. I know you really want a more bearable custody arrangement. Your proposal looks reasonable and thought out. I am sure your L will have some good advice.

During W and my negotiating my L told me (and her) to itemize some of the funds differently - not just a lump sum payment, even though that is what it was. Some was identified as in lieu of a car for example. He knew from experience and how the courts are currently ruling that agreements without each party retaining a car or funds identified to purchase a car would be scrutinized further and delay things and may even be rejected. That is exactly the reasons we pay for a lawyer and listen to them.

As for a psychiatric evaluations of both parents. I looked into this with my L during my separation. First, there need to be a really good and concrete reason to do this, and doctors would need to be involved long before then. Second, the really good reason is not - he’s is crazy, or what it actually is - irrational. (More on this in just a bit). Third, the only psychiatric reason that would halt this - is insanity. Insane people cannot sign legal documents, cannot sign separation agreements, cannot sign waivers, divorce, etc... They would be quickly entitled to half of everything and no negotiating. This is not what you want.

Now irrational people can legally make decisions that are not in their best interests. They can go against advice from their lawyer. All people are allowed to be angry, “crazy”, emotional, unstable, whatever - and they still have legal rights. They can have firearms, drive, marry, have custody, divorce, etc... Some advice don’t use the word “crazy” or “nuts” around L, in fact do not even bring up his mental health. You are not a psychiatrist and he has not been evaluated, and it has no bearing on any of the proceedings. So just let it go and deal with the business at hand. This is one of those “you need to accept what you can’t change times” - the courts do not need or want to hear about H’s emotions (or your’s).

I am going to second job’s advice. You H is irrational and you cannot reason with an irrational person. Take everything to your lawyer and let her do all negotiating and talking to H or his L. You need to stay clear of it, H is blaming you, any thing you bring forward will be looked at unkindly and most likely dismissed (remember he is driven to do that, to push away from you).

Gerda, you know I care about you, as do a lot of others around here. Some of the advice may sound a bit harsh to you - right now. In time, you will see it is exactly what you need to hear.

You are at the cusp of clarity. Rip off the veil of denial and let go. Peace and freedom is waiting for you.

I love the idea of you keeping your house, running your business, and all that. That is what you want. During all this settlement keep your eyes open. You have to get what you need, and it might come to letting go of some of your wants. Time will tell. Just be open to whatever your lawyer is telling you.

I would like to point something out - you are not speaking about fear. You are also not speaking in a depressing manner. This situation is all happening right now, and you are in the moment - not in fear. Well done!

Let that fear lay on the floor and do not pick it up. Your last post demonstrated you intellectually detaching the emotion from the concern, and just like that, no fear. Keep it up, it takes practice, then becomes habit, then becomes behaviour.

Stay strong. You’ve can do this.

DnJ

[devvo]

I read what your H wrote Gerda, and saw a man who is saying that he's leaving the marriage because he feels he's not got any say in decision making and that you won't take the risks he wants you to take. Would they be business risks, or is he speaking of something else.

The 'clash' email was a bit harder to decipher. Obviously he feels you two fight too much, but I couldn't quite work out how he thought leaving the 'clashing' was going to make working with you after a divorce any easier. Did any of that make sense to you?

[Gerda]

Devvo, I think you would need to read my whole story to understand, but to try to make it short -- there is no truth in anything he is saying. He squandered everything, drove our biz into the ground, ran up tens of thousands in debt, doesn't work much and hasn't given me money for house or kids in over five years. I slowly had to build walls around our joint ventures, block him from my cards, etc. I refused to sell our house so that he could live without working. And that is why he says I control everything. It's all madness.

Likewise the clashing. If you have followed my thread at all, it may be apparent that my goal is sainthood. I'm only partly kidding. But I will say that though we did fight in the early days, the year or so before BD, as he got angrier and angrier and I didn't understand it was MLC so I resented him for not loving me and for leaving me alone to deal with our biz and kids and debts. But then I became a Christian. And I have raised my voice to him maybe five times in the last five years -- e.g, when I found out about OW, etc. Generally I am very kind to him or try not to interact if I am hurt or think I will say something angry/harsh. So again, all madness. The only clash is that of paragraph one, but I don't fight or engage, I just don't give him the money he wants or I show him our accounts and how we are always short and he becomes furious that I am creating a "myth of scarcity." Our accounts are all joint, he could easily empty them or at least look at them. He told the court he has no access to them and I control everything and the court was like, "Wha...? They are joint accounts!"

When he was the H I knew before, he was not very good with money so I did all the books and paid all the bills. In fact, he was deep in debt when we started dating, and I helped him set up a schedule to get out of it, and he did. Once were a family and then running businesses together, I was every week begging him to do it with me but he always refused. Even after BD, I kept trying to involve him, if only to show him how dire things were, but he refused. then when he got crazier, he said he wanted total control and to do all bills and run everything alone without me, etc. I tried to show him how but he would just sort of disappear about it. I was too scared to abandon it to him. He always had bad credit so everything was and is in my name as far as debts, and I knew our biz would totally go under with the way he was disappearing and so crazy and out of it. His vision of me is in fact almost comforting, because it's so far from reality that it helps me to know that it's not about me.

I'm not saying I was perfect. I did and do millions of things wrong. I am just saying that his view of things in that way is totally insane.

[Gerda]

I just got back from work and it's 2 am so DnJ and Coly and Peace and Job, I will write tomorrow. I love the outpouring of support!

[Gerda]

There was a lot of thought put into your post, I liked it. Well done.... I would like to point something out - you are not speaking about fear. You are also not speaking in a depressing manner. This situation is all happening right now, and you are in the moment - not in fear. Well done! DnJ

You are such a good support to me! I don't know if you even realize what a bubble of criticism I live in. All I can do is put up walls to try to block it out. Even in my prayers I am always begging God to give me a sign that He is pleased with me and that I am not doing it all wrong. So it means so much to have you recognize anything good in me.

In fact that temptation I mentioned with that one man is in large part being fueled by the same thing except that he is helping me dig out of the business problems and helping me draft divorce stuff so he also metaphorically shakes me up enough to keep me from getting too proud of myself. Also he shows up at our meetings with blond hairs of one of his lady friends still on his sweater, so that helps.

I am probably going to harp about this till your sick about it - speak to L about this. DnJ

I do talk to her about things but she is extremely hard to reach and you know how these L's are all tired of hearing the same stuff over and over so they only respond to the things they are going to act on. But she said she was totally shocked with the offer they sent, giving up on 50-50 custody in that way. And she said that what they sent is way better than anything I will get without a trial, especially because the judge I got does not care about marriage (has never been married) or children, unless they are being beaten. And then we got notice yesterday that the court already appointed a GAL and we had to pay her 10K out of "marital funds," of which there are none. So my L has contacted her to ask for a little time to see if we can work out custody issues without her. I drafted my offer with my friend with the sweater yesterday, and he thought what I had come up with was good, just added a few things. He was angry that I was giving up so much in terms of money but I kept telling him that I don't care about losing some money in order to have freedom from this process or from ever having to talk about money with my H again.DnJ[/quote]

Let your L deal with it. Let her find the best deal for you.DnJ

As far as the rest,I think the issue I am facing is that I live in an extremely liberal state that defaults to 50-50 and equal split of assets. Even if my H is horrible, the court does not care, they want to give him co-parenting. I read a lot of horror stories and talked to friends, and even thought about what Marina is going through and talked to a lesbian mom I know about that -- she said it wasn't surprising considering her own horrifying and costly custody battle in an extremely liberal state. Her daughter is suicidal over the joint custody arrangement and the court wouldn't accept the psychiatric report over the other mom's right to coparent!

So I need to be pragmatic about what is actually going to be possible when a court is deciding the fate of your kids and home. I need to make a deal while he is hungry for money so that I can save my kids from worse and possibly save my house.

Also I don't think you or Job or anyone who has talked about the house understands because of my attempt to be vague -- but this house is basically a Bed and Breakfast. I am not attached to it because it is my home, though I do love it despite the fact that it is slowly turning into a shack with leaking everything. 90% of my attachment to it is as an amazing business and investment that will never ever happen again. Selling it would mean I would have to leave everything as I would not be able to afford to even live in my city anymore, I would leave all my jobs that allow me a very flexible schedule to pursue my artistic career and be there for my kids. I would not be able to live in a place that pays for itself. And my kids would have to leave home, school, church community, everything. It just doesn't make any sense to do that if I can avoid it.

If I can't make the deal, I did look up the GAL and she sounds actually pretty great, so maybe it will be to my benefit. Though how I will come up with 5K, I have no idea.

Gerda, you know I care about you DnJ

Indeed, I think I do! You know the same I hope.

Some of the advice may sound a bit harsh to you - right now. In time, you will see it is exactly what you need to hear.

You are at the cusp of clarity. Rip off the veil of denial and let go. Peace and freedom is waiting for you.DnJ

I am not sure if what you are calling denial I am calling hope. I have no problem making a practical deal to move H forward. I am not sure what will happen after D. I know I am tempted. But I am not tempted to make a new life with someone. I am not sure what will happen as far as a distraction. I am ready for a life on my own if that's God's will and looking forward to the peace and productivity it might bring. But I am very clear on what God has shown me about his will. It's not a popular stance on these parts but please remember I chose to convert to a religion that has nuns and priests. The faith of the nuns and priests I know, the willingness to surrender the chance for earthly love to devote a life to God is a powerful testimony for me. I understand that commitment to God. Marriage is my vocation and if God is allowing my marriage to die, He will either resurrect it or give me the means to find joy in my life as a wife without a husband.

Or to add to what one great man has said -- I may give up, but definitely not today. I think God wants to find me on this rocky path up a dark mountain. My husband may or may not be waiting up there in the cleft but God is.

[Gerda]

Dear Westo and Coly and Job, thank you so much for the visit and for caring so much about me and the virtual hugs. I feel like you all just made me a big comforting pot of tea.

Westo, your brave admission of your struggle might help you to understand my H. My H is an alcoholic. His father decimated him in every way and is usually drunk by 11 am. He had a very difficult childhood and ran away from home a lot. I came from a house that included substance abuse and violence, but I was never tempted by alcohol or drugs, quite the opposite. But my brother did everything. We all struggle with some terrible darknesses, and my H's struggle clearly overcame him.

Westo, I myself could never ever forgive him. Of course not. Not what he says but what he has done. I wrestle with fear, hatred, bitterness, despair.

But I do not forgive him on my own strength. I ask God to give me something I don't have, something that only God has. Because God loves my H. God can judge him on my behalf if I let him. God can forgive him. So my prayers are that God would allow me to have forgiveness and love for my H when there is none left in my own heart. And I assure you, God does it.

I don't think you can understand this if you have no faith. When I started my journey, I did not know if I believed in God but I started talking to Him. Then I started saying a prayer or two. Things happen to you when you open your heart to God, and more things happen when you are obedient to God's will even when you don't want to be. I know if you are not religious this will sound like poppycock. But all I can say is that I know that I know it is true. God does not look at circumstances. Mine are very bleak. Believing that God can fix this does not mean I am sure He will. It just means that I am sure that I can't, and that only God can and that he will either do so or provide me with the means to live in the light even if my circumstances are dark. It is a surrender of the self, it is a leap. It is not rational. Just like I can't reason with my irrational H, likewise you can't offer me a rational explanation of why I should change my vision of marriage just because my H has changed his. And likewise I can't offer a rational explanation to understand my faith except to say that I am released from a slavery of the mind and heart that would never be possible without continuing to ask God to help me do that. But don't worry, I don't think that my H is definitely coming back. I am not deluding myself as to the various possible outcomes here. I just don't think that has anything to do with my obedience to God.

To put it hyperbolically (and at risk of repeating myself) -- If I found myself in the death camps during the Holocaust, I would hope that I would continue to serve others, care for others before myself, do everything I could to show love and kindness to others at the risk of dying myself. Facing something unthinkably wrong, horrible, dark, evil, immoral does not change what is Good.

Love to you all. Please keep visiting, it helps a lot. I have a lot of really low days right now.

[DnJ]

Hello Gerda

You sound great. Well thought out and clear headed.

I think you know how much I am a proponent of hope. Hope is a very powerful force; able to propel one through incredible difficulty or stall one in blindness to their own folly.

I only cautioned you about denial to ensure you see clearly, and I believe you do.

Keep your hope and let no one take it from you.

It does sound like you have a good deal in hand. I did have to smile at my own memory of my lawyer’s surprise at W’s offer and her signing of it. His advice to me was this is a very good deal - sign it. Sounds like your L is advising similarly, going to trial is really not worth it, considering the risk vs the reward (I also live where 50/50 is pretty much automatic). And you are correct, getting this done while he is hungry would be the easiest time.

I do understand your attachment to your house and business (B & B). I am not suggesting you have to sell it, I was just trying to help you see all the facets of what you can do, and might need to do.

I have hung on to my house for 27 years. Many of those I was working away from home. I know how comfortable and lucky it is to have a great home. Hang on to it, if you can; and I really do hope you can.

As for temptation, that is something a would love to discuss with you. However, you got lots on your plate. Short version is - temptation is a step in the LBS’s healing. Happens as indifference grows and one starts letting go, something tries to fill the void. Get through it, and let the feelings settle and flit away. You will get too who you really are, and what your true temptations and desires are.

I may give up, but definitely not today.

Oh, I like that.

DnJ