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So proud of you Gordie. I think you are too far along to fake it until you make it. I'm glad you spoke up and shared some of your feelings and that it lead to a positive place for both of you.

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Hi Gordie,

I will try not to be blunt but I only have a few minutes. Bare that in mind if it comes across as uncaring. That isn't me.

Anyway that is a tough blow, but there are many different ways to consider this latest conversation:

# It is a reality check on those expectations, which apparently were a bit too high. I don't blame you on that, we are all guilty of it at times. But it does make negative turns harder.
# She looked for comfort and fell asleep in your arms. Actions versus words!!
# She wants more but she shuts the door on you.
# I like what job mentioned about looking at what she said and if you have been lacking, you have an area of focus. If there is no validity, let it slip. I honestly could be accused of not putting W first at the moment. I imagine that it could also be true in your case. Can you look into that. But don't panic and do everything to please her.

Sorry I will try to come back soon to elaborate.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,654
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Maybe it has nothing to do with it but today is Valentines Day. Many people in unhappy situations, look to this date and see that they are not where they'd like to be. That can be depressing. Ask any LBS here!! So that reminded her that she's not quiet there as regards to you. She could have initiated the R chat to ensure you didn't do anything elaborate for V Day, which could have worsened her feelings.

Regardless of what her reasons for initiating the conversation, only you can decide if it changes anything. To me it changes nothing. It just proves the road is still long ahead of you.

Remember that Foreveryoung's W told him at least three times she was done and wanted a D. She was triple done as he put it himself. Now they are working together with a counsellor to rebuid their M.

I know that it sux but it is the LBS that has to make the first few steps even if we feel it isn't up to us. I can understand you not wanting to give too much heart to a woman that isn't fully committed to you. Believe me I know how that feels. I don't believe that you need to give her MORE now. Maybe you should even back off a bit. Time and space are the keys to all reconciliations that have occurred on this site. Respect her wish or rather how she feels. Feelings change. you know that. That can give you hope.

In your shoes I would let her know that you respect her feelings and appreciate her being open with you. Don't try to change them. you can't. You can understand her frustrations though. You know how hard it is to live in a difficult R. You can empathise.

Now you need to work on your resentment and anger. Those will not help you nor your W feel better. Don't act on them.

Your W is unhappy that she isn't the centre of your world and that you are not doing enough for her. I truly believe that can be a good thing! She wants to be the center of your world and for you to do things for her. She has noticed you are independent of her and she doesn't like it. Your coach has advised that some of what you do will displease her. Maybe that is even essential.

Follow your path, and leave her decide her own path.

Many people in crisis oscilate between wanting back and wanting out. The strength and distance between those peaks usually diminishes and eventually they no longer osscilate. Stay steady, but be open to learn more.

I got to go.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
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Originally Posted by roist
Time and space are the keys to all reconciliations that have occurred on this site.


Hey Gordie I usually post to you once or twice a year. I am really sorry about your setback. I truly admire your strength along your journey you have really endured a lot and are always thoughtful enough to respond to everyone who posts on your thread.

I am wondering if you have considered a separation at all? I still really think she needs to feel what it would be like for you to not be apart of her everyday life.

Again I commend your strength and commitment!

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Roist: Maybe it has nothing to do with it but today is Valentines Day. Many people in unhappy situations, look to this date and see that they are not where they'd like to be. That can be depressing. Ask any LBS here!! So that reminded her that she's not quiet there as regards to you. She could have initiated the R chat to ensure you didn't do anything elaborate for V Day, which could have worsened her feelings.

G: Thank you. No idea if it was V day related. I had not thought of that. We had a nice family dinner. I bought her a little present that was well received.

Roist: Regardless of what her reasons for initiating the conversation, only you can decide if it changes anything. To me it changes nothing. It just proves the road is still long ahead of you.

G: Agree this changes nothing and yes, still a long road ahead.

Roist: Remember that Foreveryoung's W told him at least three times she was done and wanted a D. She was triple done as he put it himself. Now they are working together with a counsellor to rebuid their M.

G: That is an awesome story. I did not know that. I am triple done! I do think about something my DB coach told me. When she is feeling closer to me, sometimes she pushes me away.

Roist: I know that it sux but it is the LBS that has to make the first few steps even if we feel it isn't up to us. I can understand you not wanting to give too much heart to a woman that isn't fully committed to you. Believe me I know how that feels. I don't believe that you need to give her MORE now. Maybe you should even back off a bit. Time and space are the keys to all reconciliations that have occurred on this site. Respect her wish or rather how she feels. Feelings change. you know that. That can give you hope.

G: I know you know. We absolutely need more time. I am struggling with the space. She says and acts in contradictory ways of wanting more and wanting less.

Roist: In your shoes I would let her know that you respect her feelings and appreciate her being open with you. Don't try to change them. you can't. You can understand her frustrations though. You know how hard it is to live in a difficult R. You can empathise.

G: I told her exactly that. Thank you for sharing your feelings.

Roist: Now you need to work on your resentment and anger. Those will not help you nor your W feel better. Don't act on them.

G: Yes, indeed. Still a work in progress.

Roist: Your W is unhappy that she isn't the centre of your world and that you are not doing enough for her. I truly believe that can be a good thing! She wants to be the center of your world and for you to do things for her. She has noticed you are independent of her and she doesn't like it. Your coach has advised that some of what you do will displease her. Maybe that is even essential. Follow your path, and leave her decide her own path.

G: Yes, she says she wants to be the center of my world and focus of my attention and I have been focused on me and the kids. If I put all my attention on her, it may scare her away. If I do not give her enough attention, it may just further frustrate her.

Roist: Many people in crisis oscilate between wanting back and wanting out. The strength and distance between those peaks usually diminishes and eventually they no longer osscilate. Stay steady, but be open to learn more.

G: I agree re oscillation. Since our R talk, she has been wanting me to spend more time with her and to talk to her more. She has also been touchier. One day at a time.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Journaling

So w asked to go on a date

We went for a casual meal just the two of us

She talked about making plans for our future together

Financial planning

Going on vacation with just the two of us this year

She wants us to celebrate our anniversary

After the meal we walked down the street

She held my hand as we walked

In bed she has been touching me more

Nothing overtly sexual

But more touching and asking me to hold her


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Fabulous update. Maybe the recent trouble was testing to make sure you were safe, or she needed you to tell her you needed more. Who knows. You are obviously moving in the direction. It is probably still going to be bumpy, but you are a champ and everyone is pulling for you guys.

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Good Morning Gordie

Great update.

There is back and forth within her, however each time she goes forth further and back less. Well, that’s what I see. smile

How are you doing? Have you uncoupled some of your feelings towards uncertainty? How is anger, compassion, and forgiveness - the feelings, thoughts, and beliefs towards that?

I can only imagine how this difficult journey must be for you. I do hope, and wish, that I can stand long enough to get a chance to endure my own trials and reconnection. You are doing so very well my friend.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Oneart

Agree this is going to be bumpy

So if I think of this as a new relationship

And w as a girlfriend

I think she is at the part of the relationship

Where she wants more from me

And I have kept my distance

So let us inch more in that direction



DNJ

Agree there is back and forth within her

It is hard to see how things change when you are so close to them

My feelings are in check most of the time

But I still get triggered

But less than I used to

So yes God heals and time heals

There are unexpected difficulties in this part of the journey

But it is a necessary part of the journey

A part that we all dreamed and prayed about

And I keep posting

First because you guys are all so understanding

And second because people on the outside still do not understand

If they know what happened

They do not understand why we are still together

If they do not know what happened

They do not understand why things are not normal


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,654
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Originally Posted by Gordie
Journaling

So w asked to go on a date

........

She talked about making plans for our future together

......

Going on vacation with just the two of us this year

She wants us to celebrate our anniversary

.......

She held my hand as we walked

In bed she has been touching me more

Nothing overtly sexual

But more touching and asking me to hold her


Wouldn't it be great to just forget those words she said and focus on the positives. Easier said than done, but to an outsider we are reading about two different Ws. Actions speak louder than words so this is all great. However we cannot forget and I am sure a part of you is bracing yourself for the next blow. Understandable but it may also unconsciously be blocking you from further progress.

So what to do. You have three choices:
1. Carry on as you have and wait and see how she turns out.
2. Say you have had enough and move out, giving her more time and space
3. Give her what she asks.

I vote for #3. You have nothing to lose by trying to be more there for her. Again this has to be measured and if too much she will either bolt or take you for granted. So keep up your independent GAL activities or even add to them. There are a short series of podcasts called happy wife happy life, that I think you would find interesting to listen to.

Another thing that could be helpful is to keep a W journal. I outlined this before on my thread, but part of it is to note anything she says she likes, wants, enjoys. Then you consult that anytime you want to do something for her and you are sure it will be something she likes. It is a simple idea but a little comment noted today could be a perfect gift in six months time. Plus she will feel listened to.

So take a leap of faith and try giving her what she is asking for. Watch her reaction and adjust as appropriate. However Michelle advises giving stuff time to work. So wait at least a few weeks before judging something as not working.

I am curious as to how she describes your future together.

I would finally add, that at the beginning or at the next time she criticises you for not being there for her, I would hit her with the truth dart about her not being fully in your R and that influences any possible R. No need to spell it out more.

Got to go

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
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