Husband left for the second time - 8

[Joe2017]

Nicole I fully understand that in my situation it was easier because she ditched me. Even though I held on with everything I could. But I did get a D. That’s how I am able to stand on the OTHER side of D and see what it gave me. Nicole, it gave me PEACE.

Even after the divorce was final I would get messages from her like “You were never good enough for me.” and “Please let me know if you’re going to be at school picking up S17 because S15 is going to be there and I don’t want him to see you.” I mean... months after the divorce she sent me a message telling me that she is the reason I’m successful and it was her all along. The D did not stop her from harassing me.

But you know what? I already had my piece (peace?) of paper called a divorce decree. It was physical but helped me mentally. I was done and nothing she had to say even registered. I moved onto another chapter and I felt such relief that I didn’t feel obligated to her as a spouse.

Yes, I understand you have a child with the man. You will have to interact. But you will also have the FREEDOM to find another man. Without guilt. Without feeling like a cheater yourself.

Nicole, it’s time to move on with your life. You can’t wait for this guy. The more you hang on the more he’s going to keep you by a thread.

Do you like living like this? I know the answer is no. I know there is extreme sadness and there are days where the uncertainty can be unbearable. You don’t deserve to live like this. Your kid does not deserve to live like this. Do you remember when he said that he wished you had gotten an abortion?!!??! I do, and it disgusts me and makes me so sad for you.

We are all here for you.

[Adam04]

Nicole,

Been reading your sitch trying to catch up. You are a wonderful person. I see you always as being hopeful and polite even when people need to be hit with a 2x4. You have this optimism about you. And I see others have tried to talk to you about waking up or moving forward. Whatever you decide to do, I hope it makes you happy. BUT I HOPE you do the right thing for you.

And wassup with meeting guys who are all moving or long distance? Did I read that right? H was from Middle East right, and the guy in the office is moving over seas? You need a Tinder app for the guy next door to keep it local

I like when Maika broke down the summary of what you had been going through and all you accomplished. Your H is making it easy for you. You should take his cue.

Okay, I stayed up way past my bed time. Here take these (())

[Manta]

Hang in there Nic. <3 from Ireland

[neffer]

N, yes, start shooting!

[LoneWlf]

Morning Nic, just like all the people here- I am cheering for yo. I know you can do it. Just like you - I am struggling through this holiday season. What was once the most magical time for me and my family has turned into a time of anger and feelings of being broken. I met my W at Christmas - and it was such a celebration of our unity along with the birth of our savior. Now just seeing other families makes it very hard. As my priest says this too shall pass. I hope and pray that we can all find peace in our hearts so that we can heal and Love again. Blessings !

[Maika]

Nicole - wow! That was quite a response. One thing that I have admired about you is that you do have a open heart and you leave it on the page. There is so much to process and respond to in what you wrote. I am going to try and pick out some key things and give you my thoughts.

Regarding my husband being a bad person, yes, he became someone unrecognizable. For over seven years he was a kind, gentle, thoughtful, funny, and loving man. Then he became the polar opposite. I don't want that version of him back and I can't take him back after he's done this twice, but the old version was a good man.

I know you've said this before, but with your deep desire to keep the marriage, I am wondering how much you're willing to bend on this. In all your writing, I feel that you prioritize saving the marriage vs. reclaiming yourself. I don't believe that you would make it easy for him, but I believe that you have a breaking point and you would cave in to have him back rather than have a relationship that meets your true needs as a woman and partner. You still have an attachment to the 'familiar' prior to him wreaking havoc on the marriage, and it seems you're not able to shake it off. The good news is that I believe you have given us more insight into your life and your challenges and I'll talk about them below.

You mention a deep rooted fear of being alone, abandonment, depression, and anxiety. I think I've struggled with a lot anxiety over certain things, especially health and religion.

I believe one thing we haven't explored is your relationship with your religious beliefs. I have read in the past how your beliefs have wired you from going out dating and meeting people and even having casual sexual relationships. I am not here to change your religious beliefs and ask you to abandon them. What I am curious is if you had the same religious beliefs as WH prior to meeting him or if you converted? If they were same prior to WH, did you freely explore the religion or was it something passed down in the family and you were expected to have the same beliefs? I'd like to see more on this and you exploring whether the beliefs you have are truly yours or something that was bequeathed to you through family. If you converted, why did you do that? Was it because you truly agreed with those religious beliefs or was it because it was needed to get married?

The reason I am asking about this is because I am wondering how much self-exploration you have done about what your values are and if they are actually 'yours' or if you adopted these values because of other reasons. And this dovetails into my next point.

I went through ages 18 - 30 mostly alone in life.

How much are your beliefs about being rooted in a community and having a community around you? Loneliness is a beast and wanting to be part of something can spark adopting specific religious beliefs to have a sense of community and togetherness.

What past counselors have suggested, and what I keep hearing from friends in real life, is that I lack confidence.

Understanding your life story, that makes 100% sense. Of course you lack confidence in yourself and that's keep you from moving forward because I believe at the core, I don't think you know who you really are and what you really want. Going inward is scary. I know from experience. But, you need to do that and understand where that lack of confidence is coming from, and if your actions are resulting from you wanting to fill that void.

And I know there are many people out there who say it's important to be happy alone and to not need anyone else, but in my experience life was better when shared with someone special.

Absolutely. Life is incredible when shared with someone else. However, if a partnership is needed as an escape strategy from your own self and creating your own happiness, then it's never going to yield those dividends because your well-being is entirely dependent on the partnership. And I won't go into your response around co-dependency, but when you add up everything in your life: loneliness + lack of confidence + sparse meaningful relationships + roots of your belief systems - your relationship with WH screams of co-dependency. I know it's hard to see it when you're in it, but it's so obvious to outsiders that you are using this partnership to self-medicate your hurt from your life. That will never solve it.

I look at the short and long term, micro and macro, one theory vs another theory and I just feel plain confused. I feel I have no belief system, no strong conviction, and no clarity because the evidence is lacking in all directions. If DB is about saving oneself that's great, and eventually we all need to save ourselves in our new solo roles, but if DB can only anecdotally claim to save marriages and there's no evidence that it works then who is to say it's better than another approach, such as filing for immediate divorce when a spouse cheats or leaves, or marriage counseling, or whatever else one might choose to do.

I feel on being analytical. I also have similar tendencies. But, trying the constantly keep peeling the layers with the belief that some more profound truth will be found is a fruitless task. At some point, it's turtles all the way down. This goes back to my original point above - you are prioritizing saving your marriage vs. reclaiming yourself. The truth is that the former will never happen without the latter. The best chance you can have is by focusing on the latter. Yes, DB has it's shortcomings and it's marketed to 'save' marriages, but once you're in this dimension, it becomes evidently clear that this is a long game and the path towards it is through you, not around you. You cannot hang on to your marriage - this is why you haven't let go, detached, and started to live your life on your own terms. I don't think you can live life on your own terms because you haven't dealt with your confidence issues, your belief systems, and working on changing your story from the past to what you want in the future, and even in the now.

I agree that a year is a good benchmark to pass and if the marriage hasn't been fixed it's not worth saving, however, I never wanted to get divorced so it's hard to find the urgency in filing. It's almost better when the other person does it like your ex-wife did. Then you have no choice, and you're catapulted forward, and you give up completely.

Last point. I think it's a good DB message to not move ahead with divorce if you don't want it. I think it definitely makes sense for the first 12-18 months because the LBS is still finding their feet. However, I think at this point the LBS has to seriously contemplate their relationship with 'standing' for the marriage. I am not the one to say that you should file for D and etc etc, but I will say that you have to reckon with yourself why you would want to continue in the face of the WH/WW doing whatever they're doing. The LBS has to take back control and make decisions, even if the decision is to do nothing and continue the current trajectory. I am not a proponent of leaving the D decision to the WW/WH. If they file, so be it. But if they don't, the LBS has to decide. As you know, in my case, I took action and made the decision because I wanted to chart my life based on my values and needs, and not be subject to the whims of someone else.

I believe you need to seriously consider this question, among other questions I have raised.

I will share one more thing from my journey, which loops back to something I mentioned earlier. I left my religion and community 4 years ago. It was a road that was about 8 years in the making. I knew that my values didn't align with the religious community, and it took that much time to muster up the conviction and courage to leave knowing full well that I was going to lose an entire community of people. But what I believed was more important and I had given it serious thought and talked to many people.

The point of that story is not to convince you to give up your religious beliefs. The point is that you need to understand why you do what you do and believe what you believe. And also to illustrate that I know the journey is hard. But saving yourself and getting to the point of clarity is worth every moment of pain and rejection.

My hope is that you push yourself further with all of this and get comfortable being uncomfortable. The biggest growth will come from that. I am in your corner always!

[Davide]

Nicole,

You have so many people pulling for you on here, it is incredible. I think it is also a testament to how open and honest you have been, how receptive to criticism, and how articulate you are. Your online persona is so strong and generates such empathy because so many of us can relate. Maika's comments above are well beyond what I can contribute, and I will continue to read them myself. I think that what he writes about lack of confidence and co-dependency is applicable to so many of us on here.

I would still push you to consider not allowing H to stay at your house for Christmas. He is already staying elsewhere for a week or more, right? So, let him handle the inconvenience of driving over. It just doesn't seem healthy for you to have to endure him spending the night. Perhaps that is just projection because I know that it would likely drive me crazy.

I know what you mean when you talk about preferring life in a partnership to life alone. I also lived on my own from 18-34 and had my fill of the single life. However, I think any successful relationship has to come from a position of strength and abundance not need. It is only once you are capable of loving yourself that you can share the overflowing love with another. Being with someone to fill that hole within yourself rarely works out well.

I also hear you about marrying someone from another country. There were times early in my marriage where I questioned whether or not I was being used to get a visa. It was really just garden-variety insecurity on my part because I was so in love and thought that my W was out of my league. At least in my case I don't believe that immigration status played any role (my W had no desire to live in the US, and in fact gave up Canadian residency to move here with me), but it is hard. My W got her citizenship in Sep. and BDed me in April. It was hard to let go of the idea that I helped her through that entire process only for her to walk away right after.

You are on the right path, Nicole. Keep focusing on your personal growth and your D.

[BluWave]

Nicole,

Today is crazy busy and I dont have time to read everything and write a thorough response. I wish I did!Sorry to rush in and out. ... I did want to make sure to be clear that I feel no resentment about anything and you do not owe me any explanations! We are good (from my view point), sister! I honestly do not feel much emotional investment in posting here in general, but more so, I simply want to offer support and advice based on my own experiences. I have followed your threads and I have seen where I think you are stuck and it is preventing you from moving forward and detaching. I don't think it would be a good use of your time to go back and reread anything.

I do think it would help you to really take in and analyze the common themes and advice between posters. IMO, that is accepting the reality of who your H is now, verses who he was before, and to stop longing for what you used to have and how you imagine it could be. I think we all agree that you are an intelligent, caring and very likable person based on what we know. You deserve a partner in life that values you and your relationship. None of us are able to see that your WH can offer you that any longer. I tend to believe that the posters here that are "successful" at DBing are not necessarily the ones that have saved their M, but more so are the people that have done some soul searching, detached from an unhealthy relationship and are moving into the future stronger and with more optimism. I do not believe there is any marriage saving program that can actually "save a marriage," because we can never control another person.

I'll be back when things slow down. I truly mean no harm and wish you the best. You are still young and have so much to offer, and you and your D deserve so much better than WH could ever provide at this point. So for now, GAL GAL GAL as best you can and in every way possible, and in time you will have that increase in confidence if you have faith in yourself. You gotta first believe it!

Blu

[Jim1234]

You deserve a partner in life that values you and your relationship. None of us are able to see that your WH can offer you that any longer. I tend to believe that the posters here that are "successful" at DBing are not necessarily the ones that have saved their M, but more so are the people that have done some soul searching, detached from an unhealthy relationship and are moving into the future stronger and with more optimism.

Well said, Blu.

[sia]

Wow Nicole, the past few days your thread has lit up,huh? There is such great advice from various vets here it is amazing, I read thru a lot here and I know so much of it applies to me too. Just like you and so many others here, in a secret recess of our heart we want the MR saved, we want a remorseful spouse that goes back to their self that we married. But that is what it really is, just a tiny desire of the heart. Our realities do not reflect that, I have struggled like you analyzing how the saint of my H became an out of control wayward fool overnight? I am not the same person I was at BD, so is it so hard to believe the person we married changed so much? If the change is revered that is great but that’s not the situation right now. You know WH has put me thru all kinds of heck, as a mother you have despised his actions. Do you know what his only saving grace has been, that he did not abandon the kids completely (not yet at least), but your WH did that and more. He chooses to not see your D regularly andnit be involved in her life? We both know even at this age their minds are so sharp and our Ds are understanding all this their own way. Show her through your life that neither of you need him anymore , let her learn that you both deserve better by observing the conference mother she has. Before he can show remorse as a H he has so much to repair as a father first. Your heart is filled with kindness , he is misusing it according to me. I understand he is middle eastern, no culture teaches you to treat your W and D badly, in fact those cultures are more conservative of the family set up.
He does not deserve you sweety