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#2825707 12/04/18 04:08 PM
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Naps are highly under-rated. Having done well over 30 hours of driving in the last few days naps and I are expected to be good friends for the next while. I think I was in my mid-30s before I realized how great naps really are.

Having ended my last thread with a "mike drop" moment, time to settle back and take it easy for a while. I do still have a plan even if it's not moving in either the direction nor speed that I had in mind. I'm still pretty confident in it though but won't be too shocked if my future isn't what I expect.

Previous Thread - doodler and Andrew play "name that taco"
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2825696&page=1

Early December right now. Life is good but could be better with smooches. None of which seem to be coming my way although I did send CL an invitation for lunch later this week.

Most of what brought me here is in the signature line. Past threads, especially the earlier ones are a lot of angst and drivel (from me). My current state is single dad with a 24 year old son living at home who seems pretty happy about being in the magical house that has beer in the fridge. A 26 year old daughter who lives currently in Virginia with her husband and has as yet to be able to figure out how to create grand-children.

My now ex wife ran off after an OM who she still hasn't caught but she's got stamina. She lives in a probably pretty nice apartment the next village over above the liquor store she manages. She has followed the MLC script pretty much to a "T" including the obligatory tattoos. I think they come as part of the kit. Personally I don't really believe in MLC as described here but there is a script and she's definitely following it. For much of the last year she's been reconnecting with the kids (half-heartedly) and has gone from being an out-going bubbly woman to from what I understand is a very angry person who has pulled the hole in after her. I really do have no clue what is going on with her life.

I have good days and bad days. I've gone on a few dates but nothing serious. It's now well over 4 years since my now ex really went off the rails. Over 3 from when a well-off widower literally fell into her lap. Almost 3 since she told me that she was leaving me. A bit under 2 1/2 from when she actually did leave along with most of the furniture and artwork and her incontinent obese Pomeranian. In that time she has had to endure public ridicule for her actions, has lost most of her friends and early this year, both her parents within days of each other. Her own children know full well what she did and don't have much to do with her although they are polite.

I get nostalgic from time to time. I try to cook and have too much pleasure in making mistakes in the kitchen or general house-keeping. I have grown a network of some really great friends. I got out better than most in my divorce and have a comfortable life.

If you were to ask me "what do you want out of life" and I were to answer honestly, I would suggest that I would ask for the "third wish". The one that undoes the others. But there is no going back. There is only going forward. I can't see my ex having the courage to try to come back in to my life and do know that it would be a bad idea for me to let her in unless she makes some fundamental changes in her sense of entitlement, easy acceptance of her own lies, and her need to dominate and control a spouse appliance. I also can't go all the way back over 30 years and undo the choices that I made then to allow her to take over my life.

Will someone come in to my life who will be a partner? Is it someone who I already know? These questions don't need answers right now. After my nap perhaps.


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[quote A bit under 2 1/2 from when she actually did leave along with most of the furniture and artwork and her incontinent obese Pomeranian][/quote]

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I got out better than most in my divorce and have a comfortable life.


Haha I'll say.

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
I have good days and bad days. I've gone on a few dates but nothing serious. It's now well over 4 years since my now ex really went off the rails. Over 3 from when a well-off widower literally fell into her lap. Almost 3 since she told me that she was leaving me. A bit under 2 1/2 from when she actually did leave along with most of the furniture and artwork and her incontinent obese Pomeranian. In that time she has had to endure public ridicule for her actions, has lost most of her friends and early this year, both her parents within days of each other. Her own children know full well what she did and don't have much to do with her although they are polite.


Andrew,

My marital woes occurred in roughly the same time frame as yours. I don't know much about what's going on in my XW's life, but my sons are with her every other week and they describe her as angry and miserable to be around. Her brother and sister-in-law live a couple of miles from my house and I know that there was some sort of "falling out" with them; my XW never sees them anymore. What's even more unusual is that my oldest son has a class (high school) with his cousin (daughter of XW's brother) and she won't acknowledge him; she won't even say "hi" to him. Strange but true.

They seem to leave a wake of misery in their path...

Originally Posted by AndrewP
If you were to ask me "what do you want out of life" and I were to answer honestly, I would suggest that I would ask for the "third wish". The one that undoes the others. But there is no going back. There is only going forward. I can't see my ex having the courage to try to come back in to my life and do know that it would be a bad idea for me to let her in unless she makes some fundamental changes in her sense of entitlement, easy acceptance of her own lies, and her need to dominate and control a spouse appliance. I also can't go all the way back over 30 years and undo the choices that I made then to allow her to take over my life.


Honestly, I would never have my XW back; nothing good would come of it. What's been did can't be un-did.

A purple Scion, tacos, Turkish locations and mysterious women; are you the Canadian James Bond?

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Originally Posted by doodler
A purple Scion, tacos, Turkish locations and mysterious women; are you the Canadian James Bond?
The name's P. Andrew P.

Not that anyone cares but the talk about unusual cars got me thinking back to my first one. It took me several days but I did finally remember the model of the somewhat unusual "first" car that I had. For some reason on our farm in the back of beyond in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan we acquired two pseudo British cars. So when I was 16 by virtue of being able to get it running I acquired the use of a (year unknown) blue Vauxhall Viva Estate. Being a British car it had to have it's own eccentricities which for it was the fact that the solenoid on the starter was faulty. Having no money for parts I learned how to lift the engine out (the only way to get to the starter, lubricate it and remount the engine in a short period of time. I also always had a busted jumper cable that I would use to jumper from the battery to the starter to get it going. Not having a licence I only drove it around within a few miles of home.

Since fancy things like antifreeze were beyond my budget when winter came I drained the radiator and dreamed of my freedom the next summer. Then in mid-winter for unknown reasons, my dad decided to start the car and the engine seized up fast. My next vehicle which was a badly beat up Honda CM400T motorcycle didn't come along until I was in my early 20s and had been long moved out from home. My ex FIL swore that his daughter would never ride on such a thing and how he enjoyed scaring motorcyclists. So I then got my fiance a nice set of leathers and some kick-@ss boots and she started riding with me. Her legs were probably far too fat for the boots but they were one of the few pieces of footwear that she took when she moved out leaving behind a large number of others.

Originally Posted by doodler
My marital woes occurred in roughly the same time frame as yours. I don't know much about what's going on in my XW's life, but my sons are with her every other week and they describe her as angry and miserable to be around. Her brother and sister-in-law live a couple of miles from my house and I know that there was some sort of "falling out" with them; my XW never sees them anymore. What's even more unusual is that my oldest son has a class (high school) with his cousin (daughter of XW's brother) and she won't acknowledge him; she won't even say "hi" to him. Strange but true.

They seem to leave a wake of misery in their path...
We were part of the same cohort. I remember it well and your rapid departure from the land of the hopeful. ForGump, CT118 and others have long departed to points unknown. A big part of our wave were thoughtful people like the two I mention who tried so very hard to understand and explain the inexplicable. I think that most have moved on now except for us old codgers sitting in our rocking chairs and cursing the youngsters.

I don't know what my ex's interaction is with her remaining family. I've not heard that she has anything to do with any of them despite her brother and especially her sister being very vocal and active in pushing her to have her affair and move out. Knowing them as I do though I really can't see them being actively supportive of their sister in her difficulties. They never were very interested in her for their entire lives up until they had a chance to mess it up.

Until her affair we only saw them maybe once or twice a year - rarely in our home and they would only call a couple of times a year as well if that.

From what I've read here and elsewhere a lot of middle-aged women who go dancing off to find their happiness do in fact become quite angry and bitter. Now many of them were angry and bitter when they left perhaps as well. My ex certainly was a very angry woman and was probably pretty confused as to why I didn't toss her butt out but kept trying to be her husband.

Given what I understand about the availability of suitable victims for my ex, if she loses the guy she chased after the number is very very small. Especially as compared to the available women in the area my ex is not strong competition. Thinking it through there are about 4 other mature bachelors in my village. No clue how many in her's. But then - they already know her laugh

The co-incidences keep happening - and I did something stupid this morning after thinking about it overnight. Yesterday I got an email from the car dealer we both use the next town over. It appeared that she had service done - probably her snow tires and the email was to ask her to fill out a survey and win a prize. I forwarded it on suggesting that she update her profile and also wishing her and her dog a Merry Christmas. This is the third time that I've contacted her this year. The first was in February I believe when her parents died expressing condolences, the second was on what would have been our anniversary in August when I added a note to the support payment and then now.

I do wonder how much of seeing these coincidences are just a version of wishful thinking on my part. Probably far far too much. I wouldn't be worried if I was being thoroughly smooched but that doesn't seem to be happening. On the other hand if she did see me having a new life would she then pop out of her hole to reclaim her property?

More likely I'm just living in a weird land that makes no sense especially if I look at it closely.

------------------------------

Had a moderately busy day yesterday. Woken up early by a call from work from a person who didn't know I was on vacation. Bought some groceries. I was surprised to get a large parcel from the local electrical utility containing a large number of free LED lightbulbs from a survey I did a few weeks ago. In the afternoon I went to the tattoo place and got yet another laser treatment - the last perhaps? And they did it for free this time as there wasn't too much left to zap. Will this be the last and that bit of reminder of my ex-wife that is literally under my skin will now be flushed away? Do I use far too many metaphors? Well - we all know the answer to that one.

As a weird coincidence at one of the shops yesterday I almost literally bumped in to a woman who I recognized from her Plenty of Fish profile. She seemed nice and somewhat shy. I didn't say hi though but continued on my errands.

After I went out with an old friend for beer and wings. He's an odd friend in that he actually seems to prefer to talk about me and my life rather than his own. He's been a good friend for well over 20 years. While we were out I got a response from CL on my earlier message suggesting that we go out this week. Very little to my surprise it contained a huge list of very legitimate reasons why we can't itemizing the blocking events for each day. Grumble. I joked to my friend that she has me on a lay-away plan. Put down a bit up front but not ready to take delivery.

He very aggressively pushed me that I should be dating FSL. The probably 20 year age difference he felt was meaningless. It got so bad that at one point I did have to ask him to stop. He was very very pushy. Meaning well and probably wanting to protect me from myself / my ex.

Oddly when I got home and was chatting to S24 he also seemed to think that me dating FSL was a good idea and that the 20 year difference wasn't a problem.

Right now, it looks like I won't be doing anything much romantically until the new year. CL will probably be going to Florida fairly soon for a couple of weeks I believe. While I really like FSL and do think that she would in many ways be more compatible with my life-style and also get along with my kids better than CL, for some reason I'm not prepared to take that step.

The old donkey starving between two bales of hay thing hits me yet again.

Well - time to go and do stuff. Today's agenda is house cleaning and inside Christmas decorating. I hope to put up my tree this weekend.


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Remember A, CL can only put you on a shelf as long as you let her.

I am curious as to why you are willing to take that step with a woman who is not ready at all, but not with a woman who shows interest and would be a better match? Why is that?

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
Remember A, CL can only put you on a shelf as long as you let her.

I am curious as to why you are willing to take that step with a woman who is not ready at all, but not with a woman who shows interest and would be a better match? Why is that?

I really wish that I had a satisfying answer to that G. I went and put in a load of laundry while I pondered (the excitement of vacation) and then pondered a lot more as I worked on this response over a period of time when perhaps I should have been doing my dusting.

Thank you for asking the question. It needs to be something that is front of mind for me.

In part I think that it's because of the fact that with my ex-wife especially and two other relationships prior to that, that I was the pursued rather than the pursuer. I'm also used to being "property" if that makes sense.

It's a known fact that even a beaten dog will come home frown You follow models that you are used to which is also why people who have been in an abusive relationship will often move to another which is one of the things that terrifies me.

The fact that CL did make those initial steps to pursue me moved her to the front of the queue. I dug around in the past threads and found the one from when she first hooked me back in July.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2802987#Post2802987

To over-use the fishing analogy - she's been pretty good at playing the fish. Giving me enough tugs to keep me handy. At the end of October she perhaps thought that I was slipping the hook and made a push to reel me in by inviting herself to my nephew's stag and doe.

Also lurking in the wings is the Nazgul like figure of my ex-wife. The ghost of a Queen who was. We all know that I'm vulnerable to her - otherwise why would I write about that so much. And again, a beaten dog will come home.

I'm pretty confident that I'm rather different from most of the men you've encountered. Yeah - I'm pretty passive. For some reason and you're probably far far too young to remember this, I thought of the old "Pa Kettle" character. Ma Kettle certainly was in charge but knew that Pa had to be cared for.

Now - this undoubtedly sounds weird to you - but I'm largely OK with "belonging" to someone. It's "comfortable" and what I know. I once joked with a friend that I'm the Samwise Gamgee (not sure you'll get the Lord of the Rings reference) of relationships. Somewhat hard to shake, loyal, always has a piece of rope handy and knows how to prepare potatoes. Po Tay Toes!

One advantage that I do have that I didn't have in the past is that I have friends like you who give me a kick and tell me to lift my head.

CL does have a lot of positive check-marks going for her along with the pretty darned obvious negatives. No partner is perfect. She's age appropriate which perhaps "shouldn't matter" but there's a difference between 54/46(ish) and 54/35(ish) especially if you add another 3 decades on to that on both sides. I undoubtedly would get along better with FSL's S6 than CL's S13 and D17. As a mature person, a potential partner comes as a kit with extra pieces that you have to accept.

Are women who pursue also controlling? Certainly something that is at least peripherally discussed over on J9's thread which I keep an eye on. Is controlling "bad"? I would struggle to answer that question if asked. Again, the harness you wear is what feels comfortable.

So - I've clumsily danced right around your question. 'Cuz I don't have a good answer. Thanks again for asking and I hope I can count on you to kick me again.

Perhaps this Saturday a lovely age appropriate and mentally healthy woman I've not met will run her shopping cart into mine and instruct me that I need to go out to dinner with her to make it right laugh I am willing to spit out the hook that CL has in me but it does fit quite nicely.

Oh - and if you persuade FSL to ask me out - you know her phone number - then she takes over the rod and reel laugh But that would be meddling and while I would find it amazingly funny FSL might not.


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This really made me sad to read. I don't say that to pity you, nor make you feel bad in any way. But it makes me sad - sad for you. There is so much more out there for you Andrew. A beaten dog that still comes home? Is that really how you see yourself?

I read your post from July - which I'm glad you listed as I was wondering how CL had "come into your life." By reading, I'd say at least back then it appeared she may have been interested to some degree. Although how much did her being "tipsy" have to do with that? Regardless, it's just as clear that her interest level is lower now than it was in July - that's just obvious. But yet, it seems okay to you.

It's because I feel bad and want you to have whatever is best for you that I have to ask, is it just safer for you to do whatever it is you are doing with CL than get into a real potential R? It almost seems as if it is. You are nearly six months in, never kissed and still doing lunch get-togethers. I know you call them "dates" but I just cannot and bet she would not either.

Andrew, you deserve more!!!! I know Ginger sees it and believes it. I do as well. Why don't you? Perhaps the "more" is neither with CL or FSL. But with someone! None of us have any guarantee in life going forward. Some live to their 90s - others die much younger. Perhaps things could work with CL, some day. Perhaps not. Either way, do you really want to waste prestigious time waiting? There could be a CL - like lady out there that would be going on real dates with you - every week, traveling with you, kissing you!!!!!!

Again, the very, very last thing I want to do is make you feel bad but sometimes we need the others hear to hold up a truth mirror. You are too nice of a guy to be on a shelf Andrew.


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I agree with every word DonH has written.

You really do deserve more and I also wondered just how “tipsy’ CL was when she stayed with you in July. It’s a well known fact that I’m very friendly when tipsy, making arrangements and inviting people back to mine, when I wouldn’t dream of doing the same thing when sober.

Please stop waiting for her, try a dating site maybe. They seem to be very successful, over here anyway.

Don’t be that beaten dog anymore.

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I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer my question and I hope it really got you to thinking.

I agree with Don and Westo. Why are you being that beaten dog? Why are you OK with that? Is that what you want to model for your Son?

I actually have no problem belonging to someone too. As long as WE belong to EACHOTHER and it's not just a one way street.

You are worth so much more than this. I also agree with Westo that perhaps she was a little tipsy and acting flirty. But since then, she has treated you like an uncle she can confide in. You should be more than that to a lovely lady.

I have an inkling what's going on here, and it's mind reading, but I am going to be bold and say it, and I am sorry in advance....

I think you know that it isn't going anywhere with CL. I also think you know it COULD go somewhere with FSL. CL is safe, and you feel like you are in some sort of relationship, but you are not and that is a safe spot for you. The illusion is safer than the reality, but it is something to you. Because I do think your heart still lies with your ex. And I get it. 30 years is nothing to sneeze at.

My prayer for you is a woman who sweeps you off your feet and does not make you feel like a beaten dog. One who makes you feel like the man you deserve to feel like and that you are. One who will let you be you and not leave you guessing. I think it will happen for you. But there are different things and people you need to let go of first.

I just want to give you a big virtual hug, A.

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer my question and I hope it really got you to thinking.

I agree with Don and Westo. Why are you being that beaten dog? Why are you OK with that? Is that what you want to model for your Son?
Context is perhaps difficult here.

The "beaten dog" was related to the nostalgia that I feel for my old life. I'm vulnerable to her and have been to speak honestly pretty much the whole time. There are days that I would welcome that old life back despite knowing that it wasn't a healthy relationship. I will often say that the greatest wish of most of humanity is for tomorrow to be like yesterday. This despite most people saying that they want a brighter future.

Allowing myself to be part of an unbalanced relationship isn't what I want to model but my kids also probably saw nothing wrong nor unusual with their parent's marriage. I have noticed though that my daughter is still pretty bitter and has made a bunch of comments about semi-random things that make it seem like she didn't think much of her mother even before her affair.

It is a truism I think that people will often look for what they had in a new relationship. Especially rescuers who are attracted to potential and who want to fix. I see that person in the mirror every morning. And some days he gets tired of telling himself that he should not be walking that path. Perhaps that being part of what is keeping me stuck.

My son does know that I miss his mother as does my daughter. Modeling that I think is a good thing. That bad things can happen and that you don't have to be nasty - although those who read my social media posts might have a different perspective wink At this point I find my perspective of the past to be amusing more often than not especially in the obvious contradictions that existed.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
I also agree with Westo that perhaps she was a little tipsy and acting flirty. But since then, she has treated you like an uncle she can confide in. You should be more than that to a lovely lady.

I have an inkling what's going on here, and it's mind reading, but I am going to be bold and say it, and I am sorry in advance....

I think you know that it isn't going anywhere with CL. I also think you know it COULD go somewhere with FSL. CL is safe, and you feel like you are in some sort of relationship, but you are not and that is a safe spot for you. The illusion is safer than the reality, but it is something to you. Because I do think your heart still lies with your ex. And I get it. 30 years is nothing to sneeze at.

My prayer for you is a woman who sweeps you off your feet and does not make you feel like a beaten dog. One who makes you feel like the man you deserve to feel like and that you are. One who will let you be you and not leave you guessing. I think it will happen for you. But there are different things and people you need to let go of first.

I just want to give you a big virtual hug, A.
Thanks (((Ginger))) I think that generally speaking that you are completely right about everything you've said.

The only bit that I might suggest that is different is that looking back I think that she was perhaps having an EA with me unknown to me and building up a fantasy life. In the occasional messages she would send me starting shortly after she booted her STBX out starting a year ago indicate that she was interested in me and paying attention. That family gathering that she came to was a big leap for her to nail me down and fit me into the world that she had constructed for me to be in. It was not a whim but was very very thoroughly planned and premeditated. She had to leave her kids with her mother (if it was an innocent encounter she would have brought them) despite the fact that her son had fallen off his bike and was dealing with some rather nasty road rash the prior day. She had a lot staked on that one afternoon and evening - and it turned out more or less exactly according to plan I think.

Her actions since then seem to have the goal of not letting me wander off such as inviting herself to my nephew's stag and doe when it seemed that I was making other plans. There's a meme out there "Just when I think I have all of my ducks in a row, one of the fluffy fvckers wanders off ". I can almost imagine a sigh of exasperation when she notices me being distracted. But again, none of us especially including me really know what she thinks.

As an aside, she is German and works for the family engineering firm. I'm a cog in the new life she is imagining for herself but is still working on perhaps. I do really get the feeling that she has a plan and even seemed recently to be getting her kids acclimated to the idea of being in this area.

As far as the present or future with her goes I waffle. I don't really know what I want. What I have isn't it certainly. And I remind myself to not get wrapped up in the concept of "potential".

On a far more positive note, it does make me feel great to think that this beautiful, accomplished woman is interested in me. And this isn't the first time either since I've been separated. FSL for example while not highly educated is way beyond what I had originally thought was "my league". She's young, quite attractive, accomplished in a number of areas. I look around and just go "wow". I still remember telling my ex when she was going on before bomb-day on how she was no good for me and that I should find someone else semi-jokingly saying that unless they saw my paycheque that nobody would be interested in me. And my income hasn't been an item of interest or focus to anybody. In fact anyone looking from the outside would imagine my means to be much more modest than they actually are. I drive an old beat-up car, live in a "shabby but neat" house. Other than on rare occasions going on a modest vacation there is no ostentatious show here.

Thanks also Westo and DonH for your kind words.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
My next vehicle which was a badly beat up Honda CM400T motorcycle didn't come along until I was in my early 20s and had been long moved out from home.


Andrew,

You scurvy beaten dog, I knew there was some heavy metal in there somewhere. You've been staggering down the boulevard of broken dreams (nod to Green Day) far too long. You need to get out of the rut. Here's the doodler Rx: Get yourself a Harley. Not one of those touring Harleys (boring), but a real Harley. You need a hard tail with an ape hanger. Then, you hook-up with a biker babe. You know the type; bra-less with some butt cheek showing. Then, ride your biker babe down to Daytona for bike week. I'll even let your scrod @ss stay at my house for a night or two. And, I won't make you shower or brush your teeth.

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LOL - one of the first dates my ex and I went on was to see Easy Rider.

If I were to get another bike - highly unlikely - I would go for a vintage Norton Commando. Right around when I got married (and was looking at a Virago) they introduced the Harley Fat Boy which for a production bike was a pretty sweet ride too.

Since I live in a rural area, I'd have to pick one of my cousins who does certainly dress the biker babe look despite being in her late 60s. She is pretty cute though although I keep suggesting that I could teach her how to sew up her ripped jeans. She is more in to 4X4s than bikes. She did quite like the big beard and long (chest length) hair I used to have as well. And yes, the long hair, big beard and bow tie look works well. I still wear the ties, the hair got chopped off right after bomb-day and the beard only appears in the winter and is kept well trimmed. People change.

Having a bike was fun and worked well when I lived in an urban area. Do a quick Google for HoverBike Dubai. Now that is sweet!

It's pretty unlikely that I'll get another bike. I sold my CM400T probably 12 years ago after it sat in the shed for 5 or 6. I now drive a Corolla with 500,000+ km on it.


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Originally Posted by Ginger1
I think you know that it isn't going anywhere with CL. I also think you know it COULD go somewhere with FSL. CL is safe, and you feel like you are in some sort of relationship, but you are not and that is a safe spot for you. The illusion is safer than the reality, but it is something to you. Because I do think your heart still lies with your ex. And I get it. 30 years is nothing to sneeze at.

[/quote=AndrewP]Thanks (((Ginger))) I think that generally speaking that you are completely right about everything you've said.


I'm happy to see you are admitting this Andrew as half the battle of dealing with pretty much any problem or issue is admitting that it exists in the first place. Now having admitted it, perhaps the rest of us here need to provide the same continued help and support that we would to someone newly arriving after having received a bomb drop. We need to keep you out of fantasy and back solidly in reality. Feeding into what is pretty clearly illusion might be safe but in the long run it's making things worse and is certainly not rewarding in any way. At six months in, if CL was going to move things along, she would have. Might she after her D? Who knows? What we all do know is D is not the end game for heeling. She will have much more to do even after the D is finished. That could be a LONG LONG time from now.

It's getting to nearly a perfect time of year as even Canada celebrates new years and starting a new year is the perfect time to move in a new direction. If you are not ready Andrew, perhaps talking with a professional could help get you closer. Ginger mentioned modeling for the kids. That too is a huge, huge issue for me - I'm sure for you as well. Saying that the kids have already witnessed an unhealthy R is hardly an excuse to have them witness more unhealthy behavior! The single largest role model for any child is the same sex parent. S24 is learning how to be a man in large part from what he sees from you. For sure it's very healthy that he does not see you being mean or disparaging your ex - that's very healthy. But seeing his father like a beaten dog that still comes home - what could possibly be healthy about that?

Rather than Andrew being placed on a shelf, it's beyond time for CL to be placed on the shelf. It doesn't mean that she will never be in your life in the future - it just means now is not even close to that time. I'm also not suggesting that you have to join an OLD site, go on several dates a week or anything of the sort. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. There are other things you can do to put yourself out there. And if it really is CL that you are hoping will take notice, there is nothing that might get her to take notice more than you going on a few dates with other women. It increases your value as CL will wonder what she might be missing out on. (hmmmmmm I wonder where I read that LMAO).

I again, hope you are receiving this in the spirit Ginger, Westo, I and the others are offering it. We all need to help each other out here on this board - and sometimes that includes not allowing fantasy to continue to win out over reality.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
If I were to get another bike - highly unlikely - I would go for a vintage Norton Commando. Right around when I got married (and was looking at a Virago) they introduced the Harley Fat Boy which for a production bike was a pretty sweet ride too.


I'd totally forgotten about Norton. So many bike manufacturers have come and gone. My first motorcycle was a Hodaka dirt bike. Hodaka is long gone. I remember Bultaco, Montero, Puch, Pentax, and I know there are many more.

I've been lusting for a Ducati Monster. But, after your post, I starting thinking...I've been helping my youngest build his second go kart. It's a two-seater and it's going to be a beast. The cool thing is, I have all of the equipment necessary to build a basic hardtail bike. I'd need to scrounge for an old Harley or Triumph engine and I'd have to buy the front forks, wheels and tires, brakes and ape hanger, but I could do it. I can do it. I think I'm going to do it. This could be fun...

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Do a quick Google for HoverBike Dubai. Now that is sweet!


Too cool! I'm going to show the HoverBike to my youngest son. I'm sure he'll want to build one.

BTW, when I was 19 I bought an MGB. It had that notorious British car reliability (or lack thereof), but it was a fun car to drive when it was running. I was drifting before drifting was cool. smile

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Chicken milk season is officially started. I have a nice glass of Lait de poule started with nutmeg sprinkled on top and a tot of rum mixed in.

Feeling somewhat better this afternoon than I did this morning. This morning I was really struggling. I could almost feel myself about to break down which I've not done in a very long time. So I forced myself to shower, had lunch at the cafe around the corner that's run by my friend, did the banking and bought myself my Christmas tree which S24 helped me put up. We verified that the overbuilt stand I made last year was firmly attached. I do have 2 cats afterall.

I did have a chance to joke with the lady working at the cafe that had dealt with CL when she went in a couple of weeks ago and had a bad experience. Now first off, this lady works at the cafe to give herself something to do and doesn't get paid. She's helping a friend out for the most part. She's very sweet and takes her "job" there quite seriously - and makes a variety of really great soups. She did confirm the impression I had from the owner that CL did not impress anyone there. Certainly a strong red flag to me. Yes, there were problems but how you deal with them especially when it "doesn't matter" is a big indicator to me of the sort of person you are.

Rather to my surprise I got an email from my ex this morning thanking me for sending over the mis-directed email I had received and also wishing me a Merry Christmas. I really don't know / yes he does know - why I sent that email. It does make me feel good to get a response. And yes - I would be shocked beyond words if she reaches out again.

While I was out and about and busy I think I figured something out about why the nostalgia is hitting me so hard this year. Christmas year 1 I was an absolute mess, in denial and it was all a blur. Last year I was in the midst of finalizing the divorce and had a lot of anger. This year - well - I'm largely over it. I wrote on the other forum I participate on about my struggles with nostalgia and on the hyper-realistic dream I had yet again a day or so ago that featured my ex. It was "comfortable" and representative of the life I had. Part of what bothered me that I wrote about there is the fact that really I don't care what my ex is up to. It was suggested that I was dreaming of comfort and since for more than half of my life that featured my ex, that was the character that my dream defaulted to.

Amusing anecdotes from today. When I picked up my tree the nice lady helping me suggested I drive slowly going home - when I mentioned that I hadn't far to go she responded that she knew where I lived. Rather shocked I asked "should I know you" and she mentioned that she'd gone to high-school with me and we used to both attend the same church after I moved back up to this area. Light dawned. It never ceases to amaze me how many people from all sorts of years ago remember me. I haven't seen this lady in probably 20 years as we stopped going to church when the drama from my ex as we would try to leave got too much for me and I said that she could keep going but that I wasn't. So we all stopped. I also had a random person roll down their window, honk their horn and wave at me as I was on my way to the post office. I waved back at this person who I really have absolutely no clue who they were.

Well - the chicken is milked dry. I suppose I need to figure out what to make myself for dinner. Rum and eggnog does not make a healthy meal although I made pancakes with eggnog one year and they turned out well. S24 appears to be making yet another stir-fry. My roses have survived the last 2 weeks and for the one yellow rose almost 3 weeks. Fresh ones tomorrow along with a hair-cut, visiting the butcher shop etc.

But first I think I'll decorate my tree.


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Hi Andrew! smile
Rough start of a day.
Reading your last post, it made me go back to the time i started paying attention to my surrounding and reflecting on life itself.
I am glad you notice those weird and simple encounters. I beleive they are important.
They have brighten your day. We are never forgotten. Somebody somewhere have a memory of us without our knowledge just like others might be surprise of our memories of them.
We leave marks of us every single day.

I was struggleing one day. I decided to go drive around just to get my mind off cr*p.
My daughters came along. I did not notice but D18 (12 at the time) said: " jeez mom everybody loves you!!! Every car we met waved at us. "
I started paying attention and i realised that she was right. Maybe not " love "but very friendly acknowledgement.
After that ride came the daily question of :" who was this person ", " where did you meet them" etc and soon, i would here: Sue... Claude... Rocky.. Eric... lol
My kids knew them all.. lol
Those simple act from all of them gave me happiness. It gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
By paying attention, my days got brighter and brighter each day.

Now, sometimes i see it and sometimes i don' t but i know people do like us very much. And i like them to! smile

You are a very special person and you left a mark on those people. A good mark otherwise they would have walked right by you. When you feel down, think of those moments.

Now, for the grocery shopping cart accident. I can help you and make it happen if you are willing to drive 10 hours to do your grocery. I work all week-end.. lol
I' ll take you out for supper. I' ll even set you up in the guess bedroom so you do not have to drive another 10 hours right away. You can stay as long as you wish. You are welcome in my home anytime.


Your Christmas tree is very nice. I like the picture of your egg nog. Lol
The first thing that came to my mind was : "unsupervise" .. then it was your cats.. lol

I' ll leave you with a hug and wishing you a wonderful week-end ahead.

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Hello Andrew

Just got caught up with you.

I am glad you had a good vacation. It sounds like you and D26 converse honestly and openly. Her not sharing her feelings towards her mother may just be that, the lack of feelings towards her mother. We are not the only one who get indifferent.

I had read and followed every thread of your’s. (I should insert a humours slightly sarcastic joke comment here, maybe later). smile

Anyhow, within all the stuff this did stand out, and it may just say something more about me, but I think it does for you as well.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Be it good or not I did talk to D26 about the fact that I could find forgiveness for her mother and that while I was still rather angry that I did not hate her mother.

I hope that wasn’t a typo.

The fact you know you could find forgiveness is excellent. That is a change of mindset that maybe you didn’t notice happen.

Andrew, I am happy for you.

- - - -

The beaten dog reference is sad. I know you well, you are articulate, and chose your words carefully - for the most part. Yes, sometimes you do use poor analogies or metaphors. Perhaps this time is one of those. You meant more of a well worn slipper - maybe.

I do see more parallels to the beaten dog then a article of footwear, slippers don’t come back. Both can get thrown away, lost, and remain where they were left - the dog makes a choice. You are much more than a dog.

You and I have conversed for some time now. I know we have become friends, good friends. We have similar views and lives. I was not in need to get a life, I had a good life, I just had to find it after BD and live it. I think you are of the same idea.

You are happy with your life and content and secure with its sameness and reliability. Indeed a 180 for you would be to ask FSL for a date, and after she says yes have a great time, all while CL is making up her mind or getting through her D - if either of those is actually the case.

That is not within your comfort zone, and perhaps that is the point. If there is a point, I’m not sure I actually have one.

My own toe dipping into the pool of dating was a reaction to some new and exaggerated feelings of infatuation and being wanted. My goodness I was rather shocked at the response from just a toe, if I threw myself in wholeheartedly I would surely be swept away.

I learnt and know I am currently not done with my STBXW. Someday, eventually, if nothing changes with her, I know I will be. And there it is, a point finally - The LBS and their spouse have a connection, a thread that holds them together. We can cut all ties, and one will remain, stretched to what appears to be beyond breaking. It is difficult to just cast aside thirty years of relationship, even for the MLCer or just crazy spouse.

Accepting this and letting go is the way forward. Like everything else we have had to accept, it does not vanish, we just learn to live with it.

I know you have stated you do not believe in MLC. You have stated that your XW does follow the script pretty well, even got a tattoo or a few (so far I have no knowledge of tattoos with my W). It doesn’t really matter (well of course it does or I wouldn’t be trying to soft sell this) - Consider this:

She does follow the script, she exhibited and exhibits running behaviours, confusion, depression, extreme changes of personality, poor choices, even poorer choices of friends, and so on. You do not need to believe in MLC for it to exist. From my point of view your XW is an MLCer. Maybe your definition is different than mine. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... you know.

Or if you prefer. When all other reasonable explanations have failed to fully explain what the h3ll happened, the impossible explanation is true.

I do not believe that you were a relationship dog or slipper. Her fall into irrational running leads credence to the more likelyhood that you were viewed as that of a partner for 30 years.

Please do not put yourself down. You are an honest and honourable man (could list quite a few qualities but it sounds like a boy scout motto). You deserve someone special and to be treated as special - do not forget that.

You also get to find that person on your terms and in your timeframe. I’m just attempting to open some ideas up for you. To be honest, I see you are stuck, you see you’re stuck, you’ve posted about it. IMO, you are in a bit of denial, that unknown to oneself denying of facts or feelings.

As I said, I have followed you ever since I got here. I feel there is an “a-ha” moment coming to you.

Keep being you and know where you are (look down if needed and find your feet).

Perhaps a narrative that includes a realization of self forgiveness is overdue. Perhaps the follow chapter is also being written and not realized.

DnJ


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I'm feeling a bit better today. The bright winter sunshine and being around people helped.

Originally Posted by exquisitetobe
Now, for the grocery shopping cart accident. I can help you and make it happen if you are willing to drive 10 hours to do your grocery. I work all week-end.. lol
Thanks exquisite - while I'm sure your grocery store is quite nice, I'd be afraid of things melting during the 10 hour drive back. Although I've been having a hard time getting spinach reliably lately. The store I mainly use (Food Basics) seems to have unreliable deliveries for the last number of months.

The small "general store" across the street gets Sobey's products in though, but reasonably they don't carry much in the way of fresh vegetables. I think the sister store my ex manages does but - well - I don't shop there even if they are one of the few places where you can get beer on a Sunday being an LCBO agency store.

I was able to pick up a duck today for my Christmas dinner. Given that they aren't reliably a stocked item I thought I should grab one now. I did have to pick through them to try to find the smallest one but it's still close to 5lbs. The single lady cashier's line was busy so I went through another queue. As often happens I bump in to people I know and chat. It's funny how some of the people that my ex avoided / didn't care for seem quite nice.

My barber messed up and double-booked my appointment but fit me in anyway. He's been cutting my hair for probably close to 30 years now and we're about the same age. He did say that listening to me and to one other divorced guy who happened to be there that it makes him appreciate his wife a lot more wink I think he did a better than usual job despite being very tired and also stressed by the double-booking. He's also a volunteer fire-fighter and there was yet another fentanyl call last night that did not turn out well.

I ended up being well ahead of schedule even with a trip to the butcher shop. I still think that the widow who works there would like me to ask her out but then again she's always been quite friendly. At the flower shop there was lots of laughter and FSL was happy that I thought of her S6 when I was in Virginia and that I picked him up a treat. Her mom was working as well and we all had a nice visit. I think her mom is about 10 years older than me and is a sweet lady as well. My winter-time beard is well established and very white this year. No hiding my age.

I had won a signed print a while ago and it arrived in the post late last week and I took it in to get properly framed. The lady who was helping me seemed pleased that I was taking care of such a piece, or perhaps it was that I was spending about $150 on framing a comic strip. It turned out that she knew my mother well - I do like living in a small town.

On my way over to the cafe to get my scone I popped into a new gift shop that opened in the village and picked up a lovely wreath for the wreath holder that I've been putting out every Christmas for the last 10 years sans wreath. I had a funny encounter with the shop-keeper. I think that there are two basic types of single people. Those like me who drop that fact in to conversations especially with attractive ladies and those who just go through life otherwise. She was one of those as well. She's just moved up to the area to look after her mother who has MS and her Dad who has dementia. She dropped the "my brothers and sisters said - well you're single" into the conversation. The topic of kids moving back came up which allowed my usual segue of "I'm surprised S24 moved home with me, his mother's a much better cook". She did make a comment about people "our age" and she does appear to be within a few years of my 54. She seems nice. I expect our paths to cross again from time to time. She says that she also gets scones from the cafe quite regularly.

At the cafe I bumped in to the sister of my next door neighbour who is also single although she was seeing someone this past summer and is a bona-fide biker chick. Big smile and cheerful "hi". She even has her own bike and in the summer also pulls out her muscle car. Not being a car guy I have no idea what it is other than an older classic.

I did hear from CL this morning as well. Her D17 is still recovering from her wisdom teeth extraction - she was under a general. They had gone driving around last night looking at Christmas lights.

Well - time for me to quickly check up on other threads, shift around my laundry and get to more housework. I re-pack the meat from the butcher shop into single servings before freezing including the bacon that I lay out on waxed paper and fan-fold so we can have just one slice (rare but does happen). Things I did even when married but certainly more important as most meals are made for just one person.

Back to work on Monday - blech. My schedule is switched around putting me in the plant close to CL on Thursday and Friday. I'll probably see if she wants to go out. Monday her S13 has confirmation classes and on Tuesday piano lessons so that hasn't worked.

I do expect to have more tough days leading up to the new year. When decorating the tree I came across one ornament that my ex-wife had hand made and asked S24 to pass it on to his mother. Blank look, shrug and it's still sitting out on the counter. I don't think he understand how trivial things like that can bother me.

If it's still there in a few days I'll put it in his room with the rest of the stuff he was supposed to hand over but hasn't for whatever reason. I expect he'll be seeing his mother a couple of times between now and Christmas. But then again, perhaps not.


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AP, just dropping by to say hellooo!

Glad the chicken milk is back out this year, sounds delicious!! :0)

Gosh you sound like your are surounded by single ladies wherever you go! Lots of opportunities to make a first impression!

How did you feel about hearing from your ex? i actually would dread hearing from my H if he ever did contact me. Just the thought if it makes me sick to my stomach when only a few months ago I would have welcomed it and used it as an open door to communicate some more. How things have changed!

You sound like you are doing great AP!

Happy Saturday!!


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

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Hello Andrew

Originally Posted by AndrewP
When decorating the tree I came across one ornament that my ex-wife had hand made and asked S24 to pass it on to his mother. Blank look, shrug and it's still sitting out on the counter. I don't think he understand how trivial things like that can bother me.

If it's still there in a few days I'll put it in his room with the rest of the stuff he was supposed to hand over but hasn't for whatever reason.

I am thinking that S24 doesn’t feel comfortable getting in between you and XW. Visits with his Mom are probably hard enough without bringing reminders of what she has done. She most likely hasn’t progressed as much as you may think or she may act.

As to the blank look and shrug, his is a young man, still figuring out how to behave. He might not feel comfortable speaking back to you. The trivial things are a communication from him. Talk to the lad and see what is up.

Instead of involving S24 just text or call XW and tell her you have these items for her. Would she like them dropped off, mailed, or would she like to pick them up. Whatever the arrangements just you and her, leave S24 out of it. Do not let her talk you into leaving them in the front porch, if she tries that just mail the stuff.

Just an idea, something I’ve observed with my brood. If W and I have something we need to discuss I will not be using the kids, I will contact her directly. If one of the kids offers to take something to her, well that is different. I mean a Christmas card or such, of course I think I would just mail her’s out with all the rest (if I send her one, haven’t decided yet).

DnJ


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Originally Posted by Coly23
AP, just dropping by to say hellooo!

Glad the chicken milk is back out this year, sounds delicious!! :0)

Gosh you sound like your are surounded by single ladies wherever you go! Lots of opportunities to make a first impression!

How did you feel about hearing from your ex? i actually would dread hearing from my H if he ever did contact me. Just the thought if it makes me sick to my stomach when only a few months ago I would have welcomed it and used it as an open door to communicate some more. How things have changed!

You sound like you are doing great AP!

Happy Saturday!!
COLY!!! (squeals like a teenaged girl despite being a large man with a big beard)

I hope that you and your daughter are doing well. Have you both been good girls? Or is that just what you've told St. Nick laugh

It was surreal hearing from my ex - even just the "Merry Christmas to you too". I just put a nice roast of beef in the slow cooker for Sunday supper and for some reason got thinking that I needed to plan on 3 place settings. There is no way that's going to happen though. Mind you, even with picking one of the smallest roasts at the shop it's still enough to feed a crowd so if you and your D are in the neighbourhood, feel free to stop by laugh I've added a second onion to chop up later to try my very first beef gravy.

I don't think that she'll be reaching out to me though and I'll touch on it in a bit on why I won't be either.

Not sure how much you read back, but I do get a lot of nostalgia lately and a feeling on how this is all so surreal even though it's been 2 1/2 years now. I'm sure you have similar issues too.

I do think that there are far more single mature people out there than you might imagine. I never really noticed before but then it didn't matter. I'm perhaps still not fully ready to dive in to something new myself but you never know who is going to bump in to your shopping cart.

A Very Happy Christmas to you and your D Colly and the biggest of Canadian bear hugs ((((Coly23))))

---------------
DnJ - thank you so much for the visit and the thoughtful comments. There's a lot to chew on here.

Originally Posted by DnJ
The fact you know you could find forgiveness is excellent. That is a change of mindset that maybe you didn’t notice happen.
In the very last letter I wrote to her, the one where I told her I'd given up and that the separation / divorce process needed to be started, the very last line I put in was that she perhaps underestimated my capacity for forgiveness.

Could I actually? At what price? Would it be one she would be willing to pay? That last bit is key. I really wouldn't ask for much. Just truth really. She is I expect living with a narrative of her own construction. It's something that she would do even when we were married. I recall her pouring grease down the kitchen sink and denying it while in the act of doing it. I accepted the lies she would tell all the time even when I didn't believe them.

Her narrative as I've heard it from others was that she was unhappy in a vague way that she never explains. That she only started dating OM well after she had moved out. A large number of people know the truth of things though which is probably keeping her isolated to those who either believe her tale or the undoubtedly larger number of people who don't care. I do believe that she has a terror of being judged which is one of the reasons why she stays in her tunnel.

Unlike yourself, while I have come to be more or less at peace with what has happened, forgiveness is a two part process requiring both sides to participate. I still have a lot of anger that I can find if I root around, just like I can also find the fondness. All of it is fading and in some cases getting a patina of age.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Yes, sometimes you do use poor analogies or metaphors. Perhaps this time is one of those. You meant more of a well worn slipper - maybe.
A bit from column A and a bit from column B. The intention was to explore how sometimes the perhaps poor choices made in the past are the comfortable choices to make.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I am thinking that S24 doesn’t feel comfortable getting in between you and XW. Visits with his Mom are probably hard enough without bringing reminders of what she has done. She most likely hasn’t progressed as much as you may think or she may act.

As to the blank look and shrug, his is a young man, still figuring out how to behave. He might not feel comfortable speaking back to you. The trivial things are a communication from him. Talk to the lad and see what is up.

Instead of involving S24 just text or call XW and tell her you have these items for her. Would she like them dropped off, mailed, or would she like to pick them up. Whatever the arrangements just you and her, leave S24 out of it. Do not let her talk you into leaving them in the front porch, if she tries that just mail the stuff.

Just an idea, something I’ve observed with my brood. If W and I have something we need to discuss I will not be using the kids, I will contact her directly. If one of the kids offers to take something to her, well that is different. I mean a Christmas card or such, of course I think I would just mail her’s out with all the rest (if I send her one, haven’t decided yet).

DnJ
Thanks DnJ - As I'm sure you understand I would find it amazingly difficult to deal with my ex face to face. S24 I think has "normalized" his relationship with his mother and personally I think that he is ambivalent about the choices she's made. I think he's aware that I struggle still and shields me from his interactions with her.

As far as talking to him about it, that's probably a non-starter. His mother had the frustrating habit of any time any sort of difficult conversation was broached by me would loudly and deliberately change the topic. Whenever I've tried to talk to him about for example, getting another job, or his own place, or even just a few days ago about whether he wanted to take over responsibility for paying his insurance bill, he listens politely and then completely ignores the fact that the conversation took place. I expect that this ornament will sit on the kitchen counter for a week or so and then I'll put it in his room

Fortunately I had nearly 3 decades of that from his mother and don't let it bother me. Facing things and dealing with them isn't something that either of them have ever really done which is pretty much the opposite of how I believe I deal with things.

I personally think that it was a mistake to crack open the window of the lighthouse as much as I have done. It's like poking at a bruise. You know it's going to hurt but you do it anyway and then regret it.
Originally Posted by DnJ
I know you have stated you do not believe in MLC. You have stated that your XW does follow the script pretty well, even got a tattoo or a few (so far I have no knowledge of tattoos with my W). It doesn’t really matter (well of course it does or I wouldn’t be trying to soft sell this) - Consider this:

She does follow the script, she exhibited and exhibits running behaviours, confusion, depression, extreme changes of personality, poor choices, even poorer choices of friends, and so on. You do not need to believe in MLC for it to exist. From my point of view your XW is an MLCer. Maybe your definition is different than mine. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... you know.
That's where as you have pointed out previously and what I struggle with the whole MLC concept. There's a thing I used to write about here a lot - confirmation bias. Where you see things that support a hypothesis and don't see those that don't. Part of me wishes that 2 years ago when I did believe in the possibility of her coming back, that there was a clear and professional diagnosis and plan to get there.

I've done a lot of reading here and elsewhere about infidelity and the narratives that the cheating spouse uses and she also fits in to those patterns both in her behaviour during her affair and prior to it. I'm certainly not a professional though. I know that a number of very smart people here back when I was on my bicycle threads also agreed that she was very likely going through a MLC. Was she pushed over the edge by a combination of menopause, empty nest and the intense attentions of an available partner? Does she regret those choices? Does she even admit to herself that they were poor choices? None of us will likely ever know.

According to the "script" she's probably right in the middle of withdrawal. Her replay antics were pretty mild other than the infidelity and even that was nowhere near the "girls gone wild" that others have done. OM was a respected older small business man and she's persistently kept chasing after him as far as I know not branching out to other options. I suspect that the money she got in the settlement has been invested perhaps in her pension. The muscle cars and fancy vacations that she coveted so much and would undoubtedly have gotten if she had stayed are nowhere in sight.

I do have an expectation that she'll pop up and make some noise if I do start dating (CL doesn't really count) especially since her dreams have not come true to date and are very likely never going to. Like you, I struggle with that although I think in your case your STBX more actively tossed out her old life. Mine kept a tight grip holding on with virtual finger-nails to the very end and perhaps beyond.

It is something to touch on there perhaps. Even though I am divorced and did go on a date while separated and certainly actively considered it, there are still feelings inside me of being married to her. But like the old slippers which you alluded to and which I am wearing, the soles are worn inside and out, the heels are weak but I keep wearing them. They're comfortable.

I'm pretty sure that I continue to be under more or less active surveillance. Easy enough to do with me being noisy on social media, her son undoubtedly still passing on information and living in a small village where she has to come to work at the shop across the street (presumably) on a regular basis. She's done her best to keep connected with my relatives as well. I used to wonder why she never changed her last name after the divorce and remember even after she had moved out describing herself to someone as my wife.

You and I and most of us here regularly pull out our entrails to examine them and to plan our paths. I don't think she has at all. And she probably never will.

Thanks again DnJ for the visit and for making me think. I appreciate it.


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On the subject of our ex' s and their slippers:
I believe ALL of us, lbs and was, face those feelings.
Regardless of the reason for the split, we ALL felt comfort with one another over the years. Don' t you think they do not feel nostalgic for us too? It is not an" all day every day" feeling, it comes and goes.
They are also grieving a relationship; the relationship we shared with them.

It is not all beauty and fun. It can' t be. Life is not like that for anyone.

Moving on... Andrew, if you are like me, i do not think a lack of courage is what you lack. Imo, you do not want to date for the wrong reason. Out of loneliness or lack of intimatie. It would make you feel like you are wronging the other party.
You do not want to hurt or use anyone. You want to make sure it is truely for love, care, respect and partnership. Am i right?
The old fashion lady in me is not having much luck on her search.. but she is staying true to herself and therefor is at peace in her heart .

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Originally Posted by exquisitetobe
On the subject of our ex' s and their slippers:
I believe ALL of us, lbs and was, face those feelings.
Regardless of the reason for the split, we ALL felt comfort with one another over the years. Don' t you think they do not feel nostalgic for us too? It is not an" all day every day" feeling, it comes and goes.
They are also grieving a relationship; the relationship we shared with them.

It is not all beauty and fun. It can' t be. Life is not like that for anyone.

Moving on... Andrew, if you are like me, i do not think a lack of courage is what you lack. Imo, you do not want to date for the wrong reason. Out of loneliness or lack of intimatie. It would make you feel like you are wronging the other party.
You do not want to hurt or use anyone. You want to make sure it is truely for love, care, respect and partnership. Am i right?
The old fashion lady in me is not having much luck on her search.. but she is staying true to herself and therefor is at peace in her heart .
Thanks exquisite. I quite like how you explained the idea of old slippers. I am pretty sure that I cross my ex's mind from time to time and I do know that she also felt that we had a comfortable life here too. I was thinking while on my regular walk today on how for many years I had always believed that if something happened to her that I would probably just stay single. Usually paired with a joke about not wanting to start training someone new.

You are certainly right in that I wouldn't want to date for selfish reasons. Despite my enjoyment of the character and possible other similar features especially after burritos, I am no Pepe Le Pew. I am unlikely to go up to a random woman and murmer "Where are you my little gumbo of chicken? Your french fried shrimp is sizzling for you" laugh

I do think that courage is indeed lacking in part though. Fear of rejection and success are both a thing. Fear of making a mistake.

I think old fashioned types like us do have some extra challenges. One complicating factor for both of us is that our children are still a big part of our daily lives. More so for you than me of course. CL and I refer to my son as "PolkaRoo" for the obvious reason that while there is proof of his existence, actual sightings are rare. We both know that if we moved a few steps down the evolutionary scale and accepted poor behaviour that we could be partnered before New Years.

I just got out of the tub a few minutes ago thinking how so very fortunate I am that today's biggest issue is that I am almost out of both bubble bath and wine laugh I have a nice roast of beef cooking up nicely and my friend at the cafe gave me some pointers on making up my first beef gravy. Since I managed the probably harder duck gravy I'm pretty confident.


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Well - I have a lot to say recently.

Just venting right now. Over Sunday supper where my first ever beef and mushroom gravy was pronounced tasty, S24 told me that he was spending Christmas Eve and Day with his mother. He said that since he's spent the past two Christmases with me that "it was only fair" - words I'm sure came directly from his mother.

Blargh. I told him that as an adult he has full choice over how he spends his time but I'm sure he noticed that I was bothered. I expect my reaction was communicated back to his mother promptly. He seemed pleased by my acquiescence but really I had no choice. It does bother me and I'm sure it was apparent. Being as he is like his mother and is quite materialistic, he made a point of asking me what I wanted for Christmas (some Beethoven and perhaps an apron)

I need to decide now if I will do up Boxing day as our Christmas after talking to D26. I'm tempted to split it but don't want S24 to "miss out". Re-thinking this, I really have little choice at least as far as Christmas dinner goes. Making it for me and serving him leftovers would lack class.

At least my ex has finally remembered that she has children.

I know that I shouldn't be upset because he is 100% right about the "fair" comment but I still am. At least he gave me a couple of weeks notice. I suspect that this was communicated to him just today. Oddly he also was looking for the gift wrap box today too.

It's "unfair" of me to think of this but given that I pay all his bills, feed him, house him, encourage him, listen to him complain about his job, that his mother still feels that she has a claim on him.

I also know that I am in this with very likely millions of other single parents of children of all ages who deal with exactly this same thing.

This will be the first time ever that I will wake up Christmas morning with no family around me. Depending on what D26 has to suggest - I'm going to wait a day or so to talk to her - I may see if there's some volunteering I can do on Christmas morning. I know that there are some dinners put on for people who are otherwise alone but I would rather help than be helped.

The one thing that I can be pleased with is that S24 knows that I am sad he won't be here but that I'm respecting what is truly in my mind his choice, but more likely is his mother's request.


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I know how you feel..

This is a reaction of ours. Let me ask you something.
If your son was dating and he ammounced that he was gonna spend Christmas with his in-laws, would you feel anger or just disappointment?

Regardless, it s*cks!!
Our Christmas will be delayed to. Not because of ex, because me and son-in-law are working on the 24th and 26th.
With their 8 hours drive, we decided to celebrate around the New year.
Maybe me, you and all others on here who will be alone this Christmas could meet-up here and have an egg nog cheer?

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Ah, Christmas can be hard.
My ex and I agreed on a split Christmas - one of us has them for Christmas Eve, then they go spend the night at the other parents house and have Christmas morning with them ( yes, they're all young adults in their mid twenties to early thirties but all single).
This has worked well on an alternating schedule.

Still, it has meant a couple of Christmas days spent alone. Things will inevitably be different after divorce.

One year, my mom was out of state at my sister's and I only had my kids for Christmas Eve. I had just started dating my Love Avoidant friend and since he's estranged from his remaining family and has no kids, he invited me up for a sleepover. Best casual second date ever. smile The following night I went to a party in LA (he couldn't join me because of super early work hours). This party is thrown by a lifelong bachelor on Christmas night and he calls it The Losers Christmas. All adults without kids or whose kids aren't around that day. Tons of interesting people.

If your kids are going to be at their Mom's then plan a different day for your Xmas with them. Then see where you can get invited for Christmas or start your OWN Losers Christmas.

And don't take it personally - he still needs his mom even though you're his rock.

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Thanks exquisitetobe and kml

I just needed to vent last night and this is a safe place for it.

I need to check with D26 and her H as to what their plans are. When they were first married they split their Christmases between their two families with phone calls to the other side. After things blew up here and as their other side made some new traditions they've been largely spending Christmas as a couple in their own place. Something I'm highly in favour of.

They do gift me a bit of their time and we've all opened presents together remotely via Skype on Christmas morning.

If S24 were in a relationship I would encourage him to spend Christmas morning with his partner. It's a very special thing.

When I was married we spent Christmas morning together and then every other year went to / hosted Christmas dinner. My own side of the family stopped hosting quite a number of years ago and my parents passed on a long time ago too. My ex did manipulate and lie to me for the last few years to spend Christmas dinner with her parents - long story - not worth getting in to other than the fact that I was upset about being lied to.

What bothers me most I think is the arbitrary and seemingly last minute fashion it was done. Very like my ex.

First day back to work. Commuting to the Toronto office. Blargh - city traffic.


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The holidays are always hard. I'm sorry and I do understand how you feel about your son. I have had a parenting agreement in place because my daughter is a minor and no one has to feel hurt over choices.

Your S is 24. He sees you every day. Your are his safe spot, like you said, you basically support him as if he was not an adult (something to look at Andrew....) So it hurts when he chooses his mom. But then again, he can't get his mom's attention whenever he wants but holidays are a good time to do so.

I have spent Christmas eve night and Christmas morning alone, without my child. It's rough. This year I chose to work and M might come over for a few hours, but I didn't always have that.

What can you do for A on the holiday? Can you have weekend getaway and save that duck for when your S comes back? Treat yo self!!!!

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Hi anderw!

catching up on your threads. something that spoke to me from some posts ago "Christmas year 1 I was an absolute mess, in denial and it was all a blur. Last year I was in the midst of finalizing the divorce and had a lot of anger. This year - well - I'm largely over it."

same boat here, can't believe this will be the 3rd xmas. holidays are inevitably difficult. I'm sorry you might end up spending it alone, but perhaps a blessing in disguise?


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Odd. I think my ex was by the house today. S24 didn't get any hours so was home all day. The ornament I had asked him to pass back to his mother had been sitting by the door and is now gone.

He's not the sort to tidy something like that up when it would be more convenient to just leave it there.

He also seemed extra chipper on his way out tonight for the village poker game and yesterday he did the rare for him viewing of my Snapchat story. Something he only seems to do at around the same time as visiting her.


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I would venture to say that your xw did stop by. Once things settle down, and especially when you have begun to move on, they tend to start peaking out and sniffing around to see what you are doing. The holidays are fast approaching and she may be curious as to what you are doing these days and wants to see the house and the decorations. If she did come by, she is also looking to see if there are any "gifts" that your lady friends have left you. Your son has probably enlightened her about CL and whatever talks that you've had w/him about the various lady friends that you have. It's about the right time for her to start the peaking out for the holidays.

Don't say a word about the ornament or anything else...see if your son eventually opens up about it.


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My heart goes out to you Andrew. The holidays are hard. My D was final a week before Christmas (Dec. 17, 2014), so that first couple of years, Christmas just was not Christmas at all for me and it was rough. Even now, though it is the past, I do still get a little pang at the holidays. So, I totally get where you are coming from. I hope it gets better for you. smile


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The cadence of my usual diarising seems to be mid-week when I work from home and again on the weekend.

Well - today I'm working from home on a Thursday instead of a Wednesday so here goes. Also, the main datacentre went down just before lunch and so I'm twiddling my thumbs a bit.

It's my first week back to work after a week and a half off and things are both the same and appear to have shifted. My boss seems to have a huge amount of anger that the hand-over of the bulk of the company to the multi-national isn't going smoothly. Personally I'm not surprised either by the challenges, nor by his anger. I did reach out to a friend on "the other side" and had a chat with her. I'd heard through the grapevine that my boss has been getting copies of internal emails so don't write out anything that I don't want to have read. I really do think he's gone off the deep end with paranoia and drama.

According to my friend it has been well noticed that my boss has become quite uncooperative as has his primary henchman. Who I also have learned has been being sent on management training. Heavens help us all. He has pretty good tech skills but no personal or organizational skills and despite working for this company longer than me has only a dim grasp of how the business and the systems that support it work. He honestly doesn't care but does look reasonably good in a suit and is good at saying Yes Sir / No Sir.

With the holidays coming up, my regular schedule of Mon/Tue at the acid plant, Wed home and Thu/Fri at the marketing office didn't happen this week. I was at the acid plant yesterday and the president suggested that I sit in on a meeting with an engineering firm about a power generation project we've started with our waste steam. In part because the only place for me to sit is in the meeting room there and because I was interested I jumped on the chance. Very cool. I love listening to smart people talk about things I'm interested in. I had very little to contribute of course and joked that I was only there because I was the only guy at the plant who wears a tie wink

Afterwards I thanked the president for allowing me to be there and he made some noises that sounds like he wants me to manage the project. I'm sure he didn't mean that but wow. A multi-million dollar project that has issues with public safety, environmental, plant operations, construction, engineering. Way way way outside of anything I've ever attempted. If I'm fortunate perhaps I can play a small part.

I did have an interesting chat in the morning with one of our plant engineers. He had an interesting perspective on millennials in the workplace. He pointed out that pretty much everyone in the management at the plant was of my age or older and would all be retiring in the next 5 to 10 years. He is obviously looking at stepping in to a senior leadership role for which he's already pretty qualified.

I did reach out to my old friend who had suggested that there might be work for me in his Manhattan based company carefully saying that I knew his suggestion was "off the cuff" and wishing him a Happy Christmas. He said that he can't do lunch in the next while as he will be in NYC for the next while but did mention that he would ask around to see what opportunities might exist.

I do need to update my resume though and start sending out applications. I've been saying that for months but I need to actually do it more seriously.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just sent the final spousal support payment of 2018 to my ex. A couple of days early but that's generally what I do. It's due "On or about" the 15th. She usually waits until the 15th to pick it up. Other than one time when I made a comment other than "Spousal Support xxxx-xx" she never responds when picking it up. Although beyond "thanks and sorry for destroying your life" I'm not sure what there would be for her to say wink

I've been mulling over the whole "what if" thing lately a lot as those playing the home game might know. I still really don't know what I would do if she knocked on the door. I know what I "should" do which is to turn off all the lights and hide under the couch. I do though have no real expectation of that happening. For one thing, I don't really fit under the couch. And the other is that I really don't think she has the courage nor strength to do something that tough.

I did get another nostalgia hit yesterday. Back in 2005 as we were slowly recovering from near bankruptcy as a family we all worked together to win a radio contest that netted up a bit over $3,000. I had managed at the time to record that and came across the MP3 as I was cleaning up some files so I sent it over to the kids. Even though I was the one who actually made the call (something way out of my character) I made sure to give my then wife the bulk of the credit. She had done most of the work after-all. I remember her coming home so very very pleased. She'd heard me win while she was running errands. That was the beginning of a major turn-around in our finances. We also got a debt consolidation loan from a bank manager friend of her's at around the same time and then buckled down and hauled ourselves out of debt. Just before she started her affair in earnest we had finally paid off the last credit card balance.

We really were set for a very comfortable life after a lot of struggles when she blew it all up.

--------------------------------

I'd been thinking recently on something that Westo posted quite some time ago. How being single when our spouses run off is indeed something like a vacation. Fewer responsibilities, inadequate supervision. I do know that I don't make as many good choices as I would if there was someone other than S24 around. S24's presence does keep me somewhat in line as does my own longer-term goals of getting even healthier and planning my fiscal future.

Speaking of vacations, I don't think that I'll take myself "south" this year. Perhaps next summer or fall go to Spain for a week or so. Funny - when I was married, especially when we were so far in debt such dreams certainly seemed quite out of reach. But then too, I was focused on making sure that we had a comfortable retirement in the style my now ex would have wanted which would have included travel.

-----------------------------------

I am working through what to do for myself for Christmas Eve and Day. I'm thinking sappy movies, a bit of wine and egg-nog, good book, naps. I did ask S24 what his plans were for New Years last night and he said that he was planning on going to a party at a friend of a friend's. I mentioned that I may see what CL is up to and go to the city she lives in but that I didn't know.

The reality is that I've not heard from CL in several days. Perhaps she's expecting me to continue to chase her while she plays somewhat "hard to get". Or perhaps not. No real way to know. There does come a point though when the chase is given up. The last time a couple of months ago she noticed and reeled me back in. And then there's the re-thinking of if she is an appropriate match for me too given some warning signals I've seen and talked about here.

Although since I've been working on this post through the afternoon CL did just comment in Instragram on a picture of the stew that I'm currently having bubbling away on the stove. Perhaps that story isn't done yet.

I am trying to think what to ask "Santa" to get me. I'd like a new desk. A nice roll-top or secretary which is part of my overall plan on re-arranging the house and getting rid of the monster desk I have now. That's a pretty big ticket item though.

For the last couple of years I've gotten myself something like a new tie which is more budget appropriate. We do tend to have a rather modest Christmas budget by comparison.

--------------------------------------

S24 has continued to be quite cheerful. He actually sat down with me in the kitchen last night and we had a nice visit. When he came home a few minutes ago he was also cheerful and complimented my stew that has been bubbling all afternoon. Sad in some ways that it makes me suspicious. He did seem pleased that I have moved some of the presents to under the tree today including some that I wrapped at lunch-time.

I still have one or two to get for him. I'm thinking about getting him an Instant Pot since he likes to cook but am unsure. The challenge is that he likes to cook but not clean wink Giving him something that would be a pain for me to clean is counter-productive.

I do hate that him being cheerful makes me suspicious. But it is what it is.

Ah well - the servers came up a couple of hours ago and I've tidied up much of the related mess. Company Christmas lunch at the sales and marketing office tomorrow and then finally the weekend.

There was I thought one or other things I wanted to ramble on about but don't recall them - perhaps I'll remember this weekend. Time for me to hit the POST button and have myself a bowl of stew.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
I am working through what to do for myself for Christmas Eve and Day. I'm thinking sappy movies, a bit of wine and egg-nog, good book, naps.


P, Andrew P,

I have a Christmas Eve movie recommendation, and it's not a Bond flick. If you haven't seen "Arrival" then you should give it a try. If you're into linguistics and interesting concepts, then it's your cup of tea.

Speaking of linguistics and "Arrival," just the other day I had a strong hankering for a good taco or two. (A real taco, not a Taco Bell taco.) Then suddenly, I began to have a vision; a word was forming in my mind. It was as if the word was coming out of a fog. I couldn't really make out any of the letters, but I think the first letter was a "C" or maybe a "G." I had a strong sense that it was a woman's name...

I'm reading your mind right now. The answer is yes, I'm like a very bad rash that just won't go away.

---------------------

Since we're discussing linguistics, I've noticed that you Canadians seem to follow the British rules of grammar rather than the American rules of grammar. (Yes, that American thing is a backhanded comment.) The Brits leave their commas and periods outside of quotes and it literally drives me insane. What do the Brits know about English?

This is direct from the Grammar Girl:

The most common question people ask about quotation marks is whether periods and commas go inside or outside, and the answer depends on where your audience lives because in American English we always put periods and commas inside quotation marks, but in British English periods and commas can go inside or outside (kind of like the American rules for question marks and exclamation points). I use this memory trick: Inside the US, inside the quotation marks. Here are some examples:

“Don’t underestimate me,” she said with a disarmingly friendly smile.

I can never remember how to spell “bureaucracy.”

Don’t get confused when you see this handled differently in The Economist or on the BBC website; just remember that it’s different in those publications because the British do it differently.

Compositors -- people who layout printed material with type -- made the original rule that placed periods and commas inside quotation marks to protect the small metal pieces of type from breaking off the end of the sentence. The quotation marks protected the commas and periods. In the early 1900s, it appears that the Fowler brothers (who wrote a famous British style guide called The King’s English) began lobbying to make the rules more about logic and less about the mechanics of typesetting. They won the British battle, but Americans didn’t adopt the change. That’s why we have different styles.


So, I have to ask you, why would anyone base the rules of grammar and punctuation on logic?

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Can't believe I've never read your thread before, I guess we just tend to stick with the same threads. But anyway, I just wanted to say you write very well, I enjoyed reading about your daily interactions with your townsfolk, by the way you describe your town, I picture the Truman show in my head, where everyone either waves or stops to chat with each other.

As for the insta-pot, just wanted to let you know that it is the easiest cooking method to clean up, nothing seems to stick to the pot. It's great for quick meals (can cook a pot roast in like 2 hrs), I tend to stock up on protein when stores have it on sale, and the thing is great at cooking from frozen. Frozen lobster tail takes 6 mins, about the same for crab legs, and a whole chicken from frozen in less than an hour (all these times do not account for the 15 or so minutes for it to pressurize and any time you let it naturally aspirate after the cook if you don't pressure release)

oh, going with doodler's vision of a C, tacos de Cazuela?


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I so enjoy your posts. I get kind of long-winded when I post and I appreciate that there is someone else around here who does the same, even if I do have to work around that pesky British spelling of words like "centre". I love your idea of sappy movies on Christmas day. I have a ton of sappy Hallmark Christmas movies saved on my DVR and though I couldn't get into them last week while I was sick, I have started watching them again this week and I'm loving them. Sure, it is basically one plot stretched across thousands of movies. They are very formulaic, but there is something sweet and comforting about that to me, for some reason. I haven't quite convinced Sparky to watch one with me yet and he keeps teasing me that his idea of a Christmas movie is "Die Hard", but I'm going to wear him down yet.

As far as the InstaPot for S24, I think it is a great idea. While I don't have one, I'm thinking seriously of investing in one after the 1st of the year, as it would be nice to have, especially once Sparky and I get married and I'm cooking for 2 all the time. I get home from work at 4:00 and could have supper ready by 5:00 or shortly thereafter, depending on the specific meal. Since I don't have one, I can't speak to the ease of cleaning, but I have heard similar reports from those I know who own them, as Coconut said above, that they are very easy to clean. He needs to be doing the cleaning, though...not you. He's old enough to know that is part of cooking. (Says the woman who just yesterday posted about how her teenage daughters were supposed to cook and clean up once a week, but she always ended up cleaning up after them.)

Enjoy your Christmas party and your weekend!


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Originally Posted by doodler
If you haven't seen "Arrival" then you should give it a try. If you're into linguistics and interesting concepts, then it's your cup of tea.
I do quite like tea. I checked the premise of the movie. Certainly interesting but not sure it's something I'll watch. I do like intellectual movies but I also like the ones where I can just be entertained and my emotions are played like a glass harmonium. I may re-watch 2001 A Space Odyssey. And perhaps also O Brother - which was based on the saga of Odysseus and has some amazing performances.

Originally Posted by doodler
just the other day I had a strong hankering for a good taco or two. (A real taco, not a Taco Bell taco.)
Over on J9's thread there was a large discussion of tacos. I didn't have the heart to suggest a Turkish Taco.

Originally Posted by doodler
I'm reading your mind right now. The answer is yes, I'm like a very bad rash that just won't go away.
I've actually had a bit of a rash in a delicate area for a while now. Glad to know you are the cause. Now to figure out the cure

Originally Posted by doodler
What do the Brits know about English?
It's called "The Queen's English" for a good reason. "The Doodler's English" is not canon.

Originally Posted by Coconut
Can't believe I've never read your thread before, I guess we just tend to stick with the same threads. But anyway, I just wanted to say you write very well, I enjoyed reading about your daily interactions with your townsfolk, by the way you describe your town, I picture the Truman show in my head, where everyone either waves or stops to chat with each other
Hey there C'Nut! We have some facebook friends in common. You were part of the same cohort in here as I was but took a very different path. I've not had much to contribute to your story and you were in and out relatively quickly. This probably won't be censored, but my son's name actually is Trueman - not from the show but from his maternal great-grandfather. When he was active in kick-boxing (silver medalist Provincially) he was The Trumanator!

Yes, small town living is very nice. Rather like Mayberry with the neighbours growing pot as well as apples. We moved here to the area I grew up in from Toronto shortly after we were married. It was a great place to raise my family and I love it still. To me, this is the best place on the entire planet but I'm sure we all feel that way about places we love.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
I so enjoy your posts. I get kind of long-winded when I post and I appreciate that there is someone else around here who does the same, even if I do have to work around that pesky British spelling of words like "centre".
Awe thanks Dawn. If you send me an invitation to your wedding I'll try to get a date. You'll know me because I'll be the only person other than Sparky wearing a bow tie laugh If doodler will be my date we'll have to make sure that my tie matches his pumps.

----------------------------------

Not too much to report in the last couple of days.

On Friday night I had yet another hyper-realistic dream about my ex. In this case she was being all friendly and returning some things that she had taken out of the house - kids crafts - suggesting that my new girlfriend's daughter could use them. And then getting upset when I commented that my girlfriend's daughter was 26 (not sure where that came from).

The company Christmas party was good. I was pretty quiet there (unusually for me) and enjoyed listening to people talk about some of the issues that are facing our Plastics business going forward. The presidents of the two divisions (Plastics and Sulphur) were seated by my boss and I over-heard a bit of conversation. It was made pretty plain by my boss that he didn't really care where I spent my efforts which encouraged the Sulphuric Acid president to push for me to be more involved in his plant.

I did joke with one of our sales people across the table that I should enable my dating profile and highlight my pies and cookies which gave us a bit of a laugh. Later it was interesting that the head of HR who was at that end of the table and who has referred to her "boyfriend" in the past - seemed to want to know when next we would be at the same plant.

------------------------

Today has been quite busy as is usual for a Saturday

Made more-so by the fact that S24 wanted to do the erranding with me. He needed new work pants which we included in our rounds. He was quite chatty with the relatively new teller at the bank and seemed blase about my question of whether she was single or not. We both agreed that she is quite nice.

We did have a bit of a sour tone when I made a comment in the car that yes - I am lonely - and that he is a bit of a "Polka-Roo" - not very visible and not regularly. I think that the fact that I am lonely had more impact than his perhaps absence from my day-to-day life.

At the flower shop FSL unexpectedly happened to be working and seemed pleased both to see me and also with the fact that I left it in her hands as to what flowers I would take home. I got red roses (my usual) as she said that the white ones were too boring. S24 didn't go in, grabbing some take-away from a shop close by instead. He was legitimately very hungry and also probably legitimately not interested in my love-life.

He does seem to be interested / somewhat excited by the approach of Christmas. We have lots of plans, adapted because he's seeing his mother. I could perhaps be surprised that he didn't go clothes shopping with her as it would be more convenient but I'm not surprised. I'm the parent d'jour and part of the rhythm that he's used to.

And doodler - for some reason while writing this, I was reminded of the "classic" cartoon - Yvon of the Yukon - very much non-cerebral.

There are times that I wonder if S24 thinks of a "parent trap" ending between his mother and I. I am very confident that he's a conduit of information. I did tell him that I have no secrets and expect him to know that I am a man of my word. And really there is nothing that I am reluctant to have his mother hear about my life.

I think I've got Christmas Eve / Day figured out and negotiated with S24. I need to confirm with D26 but her H is recently back on shore so I'll wait a few days. They were off to Williamsburg today I saw re-doing some of the things that she and I did together.

I did do some "creeping" on the information available on the lady I met last week who runs the gift shop around the corner (GSL?). She's been very active in charitable issues around homelessness. She has a business that appears to be manufacturing / distributing make-up products which explains why she is flexible about where she lives etc. My friends at the cafe seem to like her and she has a particular brand of coffee that they have ordered in for her. I was thinking that tomorrow I might take her across a cup when I head out for my walk / bowl of soup as I am sure that she is quite busy in her shop.


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Andrew - Watch the movie Arrival. Your emotions will be moved. It is a great movie.

Doodler and DnJ suggested, can’t get a much better plug than that.


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You know, I was 17 when my parents split and a senior in high school. My mother completely lost it. A bipolar recover drug addict completely lost it when her husband left her. My mother put me in the middle until she died when I was 21. I was her conduit for information and when she did get it, she got so angry and took it out on me.

You are absolutely nothing like that. My mother was a very special case with lots of variables thrown in.

But I didn’t want to be in the middle at all. I didn’t want to alter either parent of what the other was up to. I wanted to be Switzerland. I didn’t get that opportunity. Let them live their lives and let me live mine.

So, honestly, if he feels that pressure sometimes, he’s going to keep distant . He wants to avoid that as much as he can and have his individual relationships with each of you as an adult with no pressure. It’s the best gift you can give him. I do understand at this point he is just about the only glimpse you have into her life at all. But you don’t need that glimpse. If she wants to show you something, she will, on her own accord.

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Hi there Ginger1. Just to clarify, S24 tells me nothing about his mother nor what she's up to and actually avoids mentioning her. He knows that it hurts. I also expect that he's been told not to tell me anything.

On the other hand we know for a fact that he has funneled information the other way in the past and undoubtedly still does. I did tell him early on that I have no secrets from anyone and that's not changed. Does this bother him? No way of knowing.

What little intel I do get is from relatives who are still in contact with my ex but other than her trip to see D26 in the fall there has been absolutely nothing. She stopped posting on social media pretty much too. Certainly nothing since the late summer when she posted a picture of a bottle of wine and a book on her deck. And that was the first in a long time. Prior to that there was a bunch of "stop judging me" type posts.

Until she left she posted even more than me.

------------

Just wanted to touch on a WTF moment from yesterday. While we were grocery shopping we ran in to an old friend of his and the former roommate of "20 something". Well 20S left behind a large amount of her stuff including furniture when she moved out and in with the current boyfriend. I'd offered to store it if she would let me use it. Hey - free furniture for my guest room. Since 20S is a bit of a bubble-head it's still in her old apartment many months later. My son and his friend were talking about the logistics of moving it from there to here and so I asked - "do either of you know someone with a truck"? (punctuation outside quotes :P ) and got a blank look from both of them and they knew nobody. Which is odd because the OM has both a personal truck and a fleet of trucks. I think my son honestly didn't consider that. I let it drop and didn't mention it myself for reasons that should be obvious.

I was also annoyed with him because there is a particular flavour of Christmas ice cream that he, his sister and mother adore. So - I went out of my way to another store with him to pick up a tub for his own use (I don't like it). He grabbed it, we went to the cash, he put it on the conveyor and then watched me pay for it. Really? I didn't bother suggesting he pay but he didn't appear to even consider that some groceries that were the only thing being paid for could in fact have been paid for by him.

Sigh.

---------------

Now the real reason I've interrupted my ironing. I DID IT! After my walk this morning I went in to the cafe, got a take-away coffee of the special sort that GSL (Gift Shop Lady) likes and dropped it off to her. She was indeed busy in her shop and I had to wait to hand it over which I did with a quick "I thought you'd be busy so I got you your coffee". She seemed quite pleased and since she was busy I beat a retreat while she was going on to the customer she was serving on how nice that was to get coffee.

Since my friend at the cafe knew who the coffee was for and since GSL gets that coffee from there, the connections can be made if they are going to be. I suspect that my friend at the cafe will be more than happy to facilitate and to satisfy any questions that may come up.

And yes - I was indeed actually sweating when I did that. Hopefully in an attractive manly fashion.

High 5s are now in order I believe laugh

I did tipsy text CL last night suggesting that I expected her to be busy between now and the New Year. 12 hours later - in fact as I was finishing this post - a response that yep - she's expecting to be busy.

Steak is out for Sunday supper. The sun is so nice today that I've opened up my enclosed front porch and am getting lots of free heat into the house.


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Hello Andrew

Good for you!

I am sure, you sweat in an attractive manly fashion. smile I can almost feel your butterflies myself, all tingly and flitting about in your belly.

Are you going to follow up? Maybe call her and ask if she liked the coffee? Then suggest that you’d like to have a coffee with her, after work tomorrow if she is free.

High 5.

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O agree, follow up! Don’t get friend-zoned!

Nice work going out of your comfort zone

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
I may re-watch 2001 A Space Odyssey. And perhaps also O Brother - which was based on the saga of Odysseus and has some amazing performances.


I believe 2001 A Space Odyssey is the most under-appreciated movie of all time.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I've actually had a bit of a rash in a delicate area for a while now. Glad to know you are the cause. Now to figure out the cure.


I know this sounds nuts, but I think castration is the only cure.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
It's called "The Queen's English" for a good reason. "The Doodler's English" is not canon.


Apparently you've never heard of the eponymous doodler's canonical southernese gibberish. That don't make a lick of sense do it?

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High 5, indeed, Andrew. Way to go. As others have said before me, yes, DEFINITELY follow up. Yay for you. I have no doubt you sweated in an attractive, manly way.

As far as your suggestion about you bringing doodler to my wedding as a date, oh yes, PLEASE do that. PLEASE! Dec. 31, 2019 is the date....location to be determined, but I'll let you know that as well. Speaking of doodler, I actually speak doodler and didn't even know it because I am absolutely familiar with what "a lick of sense" means. wink


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Originally Posted by doodler
I know this sounds nuts, but I think castration is the only cure.
Probably correct. I had them disconnected nearly 24 years ago. I wonder if they make Nueticles in Canadian men's sizes? Gotta dress to impress, not that there appears to be much interest in that section of my anatomy.

I do have to figure out how to follow up with GSL - not sure what the best option would be. She'll be amazingly busy this weekend. Perhaps take her a blueberry scone which I understand is her usual. Her social media profile, while it has lots visible on it, is locked down as far as friending goes.

Just a quick post to announce that I'm far too nice of a guy. 2 Christmas cards in the mail. One addressed to me from the guy who introduced me to my ex and his wife who happened to have been her best friend when we met. The other was from an old friend of my ex's addressed to Mr & Mrs. For the past two years I'd passed the cards over to her and did so again today ("he's such a nice boy). In the past I left them in the mailbox I believe knowing that she was checking. This year I just gave it to the lady who does the mail and asked if she could pass it over to the sister store where my ex works joking that perhaps it was time that my ex told this friend that she is divorced. She tossed it in to the box that goes to that store without a second glance. Nice of her to do that. Her boss happened to be just in to the store while this happened and he looked startled. I do believe that he doesn't think too much of her but he does still (I presume) provide her her substantially rent reduced apartment even though he knows that I send her a substantial amount of money each month.

I do continue to wonder about the fact that my ex has never openly acknowledged the fact that she left me. And I do wonder what she thinks of me. For an ex-husband I'm a pretty good bargain. I may snark and joke about her a bit, but I the support payment is always there on time, I'm supporting my son without input or assistance from her although it would be welcome, I don't cause her any legal troubles.

I did get a letter from my lawyer today which first startled me. It seems that they are looking for the discharge documents from my old mortgage when I got my new one. The letter was a copy of one they sent to the bank. In looking through the paperwork I have on file I noticed that the payment to my ex was reduced by about $3K which went directly to her lawyer. That explains how she was able to pay for things. I'd thought that her family or OM might have subsidised her. Unusual for a lawyer to agree to that sort of thing I would have thought.

Oh - and job - you had suggested seeing if S24 mentions the ornament that I found of his mother's. Silence. I do think that he probably texted her and she stopped by to pick it up.

Well - time to make my lunch for tomorrow.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
If you send me an invitation to your wedding I'll try to get a date. You'll know me because I'll be the only person other than Sparky wearing a bow tie laugh If doodler will be my date we'll have to make sure that my tie matches his pumps.


Andrew,

You're so sweet!

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Well - it's Wednesday. Time for a diary entry.

I really could use a couple of weeks just at home. No work. No responsibilities. Just a good book or five and a cat or two on my lap.

It's been a generally quiet and boring week with some exceptions. Grinding down towards the Christmas break and year end. A bunch of "hey this is broken" things to deal with at work which is a challenge because the people who know how they are supposed to work are away. I'm plugging away and have gotten most of them fixed.

After work yesterday I went out of my way to pick up some special "Winter Beard" beer which is a dark stout with chocolate added. Tasty if you are in to that sort of thing which after a small taste S24 said that he's not. I also picked up a couple of tubs of the candy cane ice cream that S24 likes as he was most of the way through the tub we bought on Saturday. I requested that these last until the New Year although he's the only one eating it. I don't really care for it myself. I think he appreciated me going out of my way and the consideration.

When I got home there was a letter in the mail from one of my pension plans. S24 had unusually picked up the mail - perhaps he was expecting a parcel. On the letter it still listed my ex as my spouse. Le sigh. I mentioned it to S24 as an annoyance and that I needed to sort that out today.

He seemed somewhat chatty and was making his supper so I talked a bit about my day and also mentioned GSL and FSL and whether I should be asking them out.

He got very nervous and told me that he didn't want to hear about my love life (never seemed to bother him before). Then he dropped the small bomb on me. He intends on quitting his job at the end of January. It's a pretty crappy job and he doesn't get enough hours to be independent. Those weren't his reasons though. It turns out that he has a major personality conflict with his boss that has at times been on the edge of S24 just blowing his top. I knew he wasn't happy working with his boss but not that it was quite to that stage. I mentioned that I didn't like my boss either and had sucked it up for 15 years but I think that this is pretty intense dislike on the part of S24.

I accepted the fact that he wants to quit and the implication that he may not have any income (he's not contributing to the household budget anyway). We talked through a bunch of options, a number of which we've talked about many times before and he's ignored. We talked about how him not having a driver's licence is a real detriment to his ability to find a new job. I did push for him to talk to his mother as there are companies in the village she is in that may be hiring and that she might have an "in" with - she used to at least. With the implied idea that he would move in with her. Since her guy has a distribution business she might be able to get him in there but I didn't mention that part.

S24 then wandered off with his supper to eat in his room (which he always does) and I started the dishes.

And yes - I do love my son dearly but it would be nice if he moved in with his mother and he was her problem for a change. She might be firmer on him than me for one thing and she could perhaps push him to clean up after himself better, or more likely they would both be happy with the same level of disorder. I'd still feed him on a regular basis and visit.

Weirdly as I was doing the dishes I became astoundingly angry at him. I think it was the fact that I am so taken for granted. His mother was pretty bad about that too but I had a while to get used to it and there were side benefits that S24 doesn't bring. Part of it too I think was the fact that I had things more or less planned out. He'd pay off his student loans, find a new place, move on, I'd start dating and now that has been somewhat tossed out the window with new uncertainty.

One of the things I mentioned to S24 and exquisitetobe's post earlier mentions is that for him he's got a safety net. I said that to him. And I also said that I didn't have one. And I think that's part of what ticked me off. I've got everyone else's back but nobody's got mine. I lost that when my ex decided to have an affair.

Blargh.

In other news I've gotten little communication from CL in the last while and there's no real "warmth" in any of it. Yes she's busy and yes she's got other priorities. It is annoying but I really do need to recognize that that ship is nowhere near coming in to port.

I do like CL. She's a smart and engaging person to be around. I'm going to presume that that path through the forest isn't one worth exploring at this point. Perhaps she'll pop out and try to drag me back in, we'll see.

I was thinking this morning that perhaps in the new year that I'll either ask FSL out, activate my POF profile or all of the above. I'm hoping that I can engineer some ways for GSL's path to cross mine - hopefully through the agency of my friend who runs the cafe we both go to.

Finally - I did get an invitation from SIL1 to spend Christmas with my brothers and their wives. I suspect that this was set up so that AndrewP isn't alone. We're having an early dinner on Christmas day. It will be nice to see them all. Despite us living fairly close together we hardly see each other at all.

I may take myself out for beer and wings tonight. Flirt with the far too young waitresses who know I'm a safe boring old guy. Nothing inappropriate from me - just being pleasant to people.

Well - time for me to make some lunch and perhaps pop across the street to the general store to get someone to witness my signature on my pension change forms.


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Andrew,

Why wait until the new year to ask the FSL out? I would see if she's available sometime during the next week and have coffee or lunch. CL is certainly a busy woman who has a lot on her plate and waiting around for her is just not cutting it. It seems to me that if she really was interested in you, she would find some time to "fit" you in for a lunch or coffee. But, that's my opinion.

As for your son, maybe he needs to continue w/the current job until he has found another. I certainly wouldn't quit until I had another job lined up and I wouldn't be expecting my father to continue to foot my bills and living at home for free. I know you had mentioned he has some issues, but let's get real...your son is 24 and it's time that he started acting like an adult instead of a teenager. It's time for him to get his license and become an independent young man. Maybe you are on to something...maybe he needs to go live w/his mother for a while. It's time to cut that cord and gently push him out of the nest a bit. If you don't, he'll still be living w/you when he's in his 50's.

Andrew, it's time that you started living your life and venturing out there and posing an invite to the FSL. Don't wait on CL. She may not be available for a few years. Life is precious and time certainly doesn't stand still for any of us.


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Good Morning Andrew

Job is right.

I understand your feelings towards S24, I’ve gotten frustrated with my S21 also. He is pushing my buttons right now, it is so clear how he is working on getting his footing to be his own man. It is a trying process, growing up. They purposefully annoy you, to see if you will always love them. They will purposefully make mistakes, and not want any help in reparations, just to ensure they can cut the apron strings.

Blargh indeed!

Feelings are fleeting, Andrew.

Get mad while doing the dishes, just do the dishes, you will calm down. It is interesting just how fast emotions can overtake a person, isn’t it? Those feelings also diminish pretty quickly as well. Let them flit away.

You do need to have a talk with son. He needs guidance, and you are the man to do it. Ensure your feelings are stable, and discuss with him when calm and intellectual. Be empathetic for sure, just more business and get your point across. You will not change his mind, your purpose is to show him different paths and/or the folly of his current trajectory. The last one, to be honest, will have limited success at first. Heck so will the first one. It just plants a seed, he does the watering.

Impress upon him - DO NOT QUIT YOUR JOB!

Holy cr@p, that’s big. Sorry, just wanted that to stand out. Not scream out.

Yes, he does not get along with his boss. So what. It is work, not a vacation, or the modern idea that if you love your job it is not really work. Blah, blah, blah. Yes, I get it. However, (ooh I was really wanting to press the caps lock on this) work pays the bills, fun things are hobbies. Ya a few youtubers who “have it all figured out” will encourage and promote an entire generation to look for that hobby that pays. Boy, are they screwing up a lot of people.

Anyhow, back to you. S24 needs to remain employed - period. Unless he is enrolled and attending some furthering education like collage or university, stay employed. He can look for an other job while employed, then switch. A job teaches so much and keeps him occupied and active. No job is not the place for a young adult, that is a trap that is so very hard to extricate one’s self from. His conflict with his boss is something he needs to grow from - not run from. One needs to learn how to navigate relationships with all kinds of people, even the troublesome boss. Also jobs, especially in a small village, are not that easily come by, especially when driver license free.

On that note. He needs his license. Another area for a gentle or more forceful nudge. A less confrontational way - a gift of professional driving lessons and test. Buy it for him, put it under the tree, he goes, he learns, he gets license, Andrew gets book or five, two cats on lap, and no stress from burning out the clutch.

A gift for you Andrew. I hope it fits.

Ask out GSL! Or FSL! Notice the lack of caps smile

Do not try hard to engineer some elaborate crossing of paths. Just go over and talk to her, unless it is really busy, then call her, or be the last customer of the day. Suggest - let’s go wonder around and look at Christmas lights after work, or tonight. Whatever timeframe seems to work best for you and her.

Hey, you brought her coffee, she didn’t run screaming. I am pretty sure she remembers you bring her coffee. So follow up. she is probably just as shy and unconfident as you. We are all people, we all have similar fear regarding dating.

CL sounds like a nice gal. She is not in a place where she can give you what you deserve. Let her go. I know you want someone who places Andrew as a priority. As busy as life is, a priority is just that - a priority, and one makes time for a priority.

Do not settle for less.

In any of your ventures.

Have a wonderful day, Andrew.

DnJ


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Originally Posted by job
Andrew, it's time that you started living your life and venturing out there and posing an invite to the FSL. Don't wait on CL. She may not be available for a few years. Life is precious and time certainly doesn't stand still for any of us.


Andrew,

I totally agree with job. Venture out (sans doodler).

You know you've hit rock-bottom when you're dreaming about doodler's hairy legs in six inch pumps that are color coordinated with your bow tie. Now that you've hit rock-bottom, you can only go up from here. The future's so bright you've gotta wear shades.

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I don't think I can give any better advice than those who weighed in before me, but several things jump out about your post that I do want to weigh in on.

First and foremost, as I have posted before, I'm TOTALLY on team FSL. I get your attraction for/affection toward CL. I really do. But, that one is going nowhere fast. You come across as a very polished gentleman, one who really knows how to treat a lady and make her feel special and cared for and that, my dear Canadian friend, is much rarer than you might imagine. Not that there are not other good, decent, nice guys in this world, but they are fewer and farther between than people realize. You seem like genuinely one of the good ones and it pains me to read about your waiting around for CL as though there is some promise that there will be something there at some point, when it really seems like she's just using you as a soft place to fall because you are comfortable. I personally think she friend-zoned you a long time ago, but since I am not her or you and thus not intimately involved in the situation I could be wrong. You are far too wonderful a man to stand for that, so get out there and have some fun and DATE.

As for S24, I am in total agreement with DnJ. I get your son is an adult and as such can do as he pleases, but you need to really stress to him the importance of not quitting that job, at least not without something else waiting in the wings. If he can find suitable employment to replace what he's already got, then fine, move on, but if not, just because he doesn't get along is really not a good reason for an able-bodied young man to quit a perfectly good job. My dad and I JUST had a very similar conversation yesterday (not about me quitting a job, but about how important it is for young people to learn this lesson early). If I may offer this opinion and say with all due respect, you obviously love your kids and I have no doubt that you are a great dad, but your son is 24 chronologically and has the lifestyle of a much younger person. He lives at home with you, works a job and his money is his money to do what he pleases without him really having any actual responsibility outside of his student loans. Is this the life he really wants? What does he want to be "when he grows up?" Has he even thought about that or does he just go with the flow, so to speak?


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Thank you job, DnJ, and Dawn for the input and the kind things you have said.

As far as CL goes, regardless of what her plans may or may not be, I agree that wandering away from that is indeed the best choice for me at this point. The last time I tried that a few months ago she worked hard on roping me back in and as job suggested, she made time for me that she's not bothering to do now and had stopped doing before too. I also worry because there were so many red flags at the beginning and I also keep seeing them. Things that remind me of my ex-wife before and during her affair. A lot of "I just want to be happy and dump my responsibilities" which might be a joke, but I believe that there's some underlying truth there. I do think that if I ignore her and live my life that she probably won't notice for some time. No need to "split up" because we were never "together".

Originally Posted by Dawn70
First and foremost, as I have posted before, I'm TOTALLY on team FSL. I get your attraction for/affection toward CL. I really do. But, that one is going nowhere fast. You come across as a very polished gentleman, one who really knows how to treat a lady and make her feel special and cared for and that, my dear Canadian friend, is much rarer than you might imagine
Awwee that's sweet Dawn. If I ever do start dating FSL I will probably mention the large number of people - because there's a large IRL cohort too - who think I should be dating her. This Saturday I'll very likely drop off a batch of chocolate coins that her S6 (soon to be S7 - he's a "New Year's baby") likes for his stocking. I did it last year as well and she mentioned that she had reminded her son of who the man was that provided them.

If I knew how old she was that would help a lot. I know when her birthday is. Her mother appears to be a bit over 10 years older than me. She did mention once that she moved home when she was 28 and she has a S6 so that makes roughly 34 based on those assumptions. Exactly 20 years younger than me. I do worry that that's too big of a gap. Not now perhaps but certainly down the road. On the other hand, she's very sweet, quiet with a sense of humour. Definitely not a party girl. Lives modestly, takes responsibility for everything she should and yes - is quite pretty even though I expect she doesn't think so herself. Looking at it "critically" and perhaps cynically, for a 34 year old single mother, a stable 54 year old does perhaps look attractive. If we could add another even 6 or 7 years to that, I'd feel better.

----------------

On the topic of S24 - yeah - that is one I struggle with as everyone knows. Since I was working from home yesterday and expected he would have a tough day at work I decided to be "nice dad" and made up a dozen of the Pillsbury Christmas cookies that I had bought. I put a note on them saying "tough day remedy". He got home while they were still warm and was very happy about it. And his day went smoothly. The trench he expected to be digging in the mud, they approached from another direction, stumbled across a pre-existing drain and were able to tie in to it and also solve a second problem for the home-owner as that drain hadn't been working.

One big difficulty with me and him is that he's a lot like his mother. And I was never able to impose my will on her as we all know wink The seeds have been sewn though and hopefully when he's spending 2 days with his mother they will be fertilized if the topic comes up which it is likely to. If I was to say "don't quite your job" - he would very likely do exactly that. His mother had once instructed me to tell him when he was living in Oshawa that if he didn't get a job or go back to school that I would cut him off. I remember talking to him about that and him telling me bluntly that if we cut him off that he would just live on the street. No telling how serious he was.

On the other hand, I was very pleased because we talked again last night about him moving out and he appeared to be quite enthusiastic about the idea even saying that he would get a place where he could take the (his) cats with him.

He knows he needs a job to do that. He knows that the job he has won't support that and with the way his boss schedules him he can't get a second job. Fingers crossed that he'll sort it all out. I can't do it for him although I've given him some pointers towards employment agencies and such in the area. With the very low unemployment rate he should be ok.


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And yes doodler - thank you for your suggestions as well laugh


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
I can't do it for him although I've given him some pointers towards employment agencies and such in the area. With the very low unemployment rate he should be ok.


I can't speak to and don't follow Canada but in so many ways Canada and the USA are much the same and right now here in the USA anyone who wants a job can get a job. Pass the drug tests, show up, do well, show some ambition and you'll likely get promoted. People who have no business being "managers" are serving in those roles because there is no one else to fill them. So without a doubt he should be able to get a job.

Now, for sure you can't do it for him - nor should you - but what you can do is hold him to some consiqunces. To start with, why is he not paying rent or contributing to utilities, etc.? What possible reason is there? I paid "rent" to my parents when I was 20 and out of my two year college associates degree. Now was I paying what I otherwise would be in an apartment - heck no. I can't even remember for sure but $200/months sticks in my head. Make it what he can reasonably afford. He's 24 for crying out loud! So while you can't make him keep his job, let him make the choice - as an adult. He can chose to quit but choices have consequences. And this living on the street crap is just that - crap. He's playing you and holding you hostage. Not good.

The thing is, none of this is to be mean. It's to help him grow and become a productive adult. He doesn't have a drivers licenses because those around him make it so. If he could not get from point A to point B - if no one would help him, he'd get his drivers license. Dating follows the same. How is he going to find a woman who wants to date someone who not only lives at home but can't pick her up and drive her on a date?

Again, don't chose for him - let him make his own choices in life but make him live like an able-bodied adult - which includes paying his own way. If apartments are $700 in your area, charge him half - perhaps $350. That would be more than fair. The other thing you could do - without telling him, is collect the rent and hold it for him. When he has a job that would sustain rent on his own (or with a room mate) you could give a portion back to him to cover the first and last months rent and security deposit. I'm certain many of us in our 40s and 50s here paid rent in this same way to our parents for a year or two - and we turned out just fine. To be honest, I owe much of how I am as an adult to my parents and holding me accountable like that. You would be doing S24 a huge favor and helping him to become a man. Don't let him make you feel bad about doing the right thing!


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Add me on FSL team Andrew. Just wishing you and your family Merry Christmas.

You can write a lot about S24 but we all know how you care about him. You can´t fool us, you are Andrew. Just help him to be himself, and set him free. Enjoy him while he´s still there and show him gradually that he is an adult.

Did I say I was on FSL team? Oh, I did!

Merry Christmas Andrew!


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Hey Andrew! I agree with all the others regarding your S. You are a rescuer. You like to do for others to save them any grief and make their lives easier. But in the long run, you aren't doing your S any favors. He has no consequences. I would definitely be charging him rent to stay which will show him how he doesn't have the luxury of quitting a job without lining up another.

At 24 I was married with a full time job in nursing school. I was on my own at 18 paying for my own apartment. May it have all been a tad premature, I am thankful for everything it taught me, because when my husband left me and my newborn baby, I knew how to stand on my own 2 feet.

It's ok to not make life easy for everyone. It's obvious that's how you show love, taking the burden off others. But it's not always a favor, although we know your intentions are gold.

And I agree with FSL! Don't procrastinate! Just go for it, dude!

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
And yes doodler - thank you for your suggestions as well laugh


Thank you. Thank you very much. <bowing and blowing kisses>

Regarding your son, down south we raise the gooderest youngins. What's the secret? We chain the little f*ckers to a tree in the backyard and feed them once a day.

I caught that thing Don said about Canadians. You know, how similar Canadians are to real Americans. I agree; it's as if they're squatters on real American soil.

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Originally Posted by doodler
We chain the little f*ckers to a tree in the backyard and feed them once a day.

I caught that thing Don said about Canadians. You know, how similar Canadians are to real Americans. I agree; it's as if they're squatters on real American soil.
It's always funny to us how you Americans seem to aspire to be like Canadians but you never hear a Canadian say that we're like Americans. Your spelling is atrocious for one thing. And only my son-in-law who is from Georgia has been heard to say Lieutenant properly. And that only under duress.

Another busy Saturday. I think that if I were to tote it up that I spent more on alcohol than on food though when doing my groceries. I stopped by the local winery and one of the local breweries (jealous Doodler?) and stocked up for the next week. S24 also had a beer order added to the grocery list.

My first stop was to get my oil changed in my 2010 Corolla. 505,000 km and counting. It burns a bit of oil but is in good shape otherwise. I'm diligent on getting my service done to schedule and am on a first name basis with most of the people at the dealership including most of the technicians.

One of the people there happens to be the daughter of an old family friend and is about my age. Her parents and mine were good friends and her mother actually was my bus driver for quite a while. She's the finance person at the dealership and quite nice. I usually pop my head in to her office and say hi. She's been divorced for at least 5 years or so I think. Unusually, even though she was quite busy she chatted quite vigorously with me and we compared kid problem stories. She has 4 all still at home ranging in age from 15 to 26. She also went on a short rant about my ex-wife who is also a customer of that dealership. She really doesn't like my ex. I think that she's struggling with dependent adult and nearly adult children and supporting everyone and doing everything as a single mom. She has a high end van that she was talking about as well that she probably bought while still married that is very falling apart. The staff at the dealership have actually asked her to park it behind the building.

As I've mentioned before, it is indeed amazing when you look around how many single mature people there are out there. And yes, she is someone that I would consider dating. Funny - even though I knew her parents well and undoubtedly we cross paths as children, I don't remember her at all from back then. When I bought my first Toyota though and she did the paperwork that's when the connection was made.

It was a bit funny that today she kept chatting with me to the point that I was getting uncomfortable that I was interfering with her getting her job done and suggested that I should check on my car as she was surely quite busy with work and she just kept chatting. Since I was just in for an oil change I did have a good excuse to head out.

At the bank I was chatting with the new teller who I think is nice and as the topic ventured around Christmas meals, she did mention that she as well is single so that uncertainty is now gone. I did get a very strong "I'm not interested in you other than as a customer" vibe from her though. Other times though I've gotten different vibes. People undoubtedly have on and off days.

Funny encounter at the flower shop today. It was fully staffed for Christmas. Normally there is only one or two people working. The owner, another clerk, FSL and her mother were all in there working. Today I was sold white roses which shocked the other clerk who knew my past insistence on red. I did have a laugh because I commented that I just did what I was told and then FSL turned to the rest of the staff and said "See - That's how it's done". She was both unsurprised and pleased with the small bag of chocolate coins that I gave her for her S6's stocking. I suspect that the commentary was buzzing when I left. The treats for her son certainly were remarked on by all.

As FSL told me though, the white roses not only look lovely but also smell quite nice. She smelled them before selling them to me and I have checked them as well. They look very nice on my bedside tables.

Busyish few days in front of me. Sunday Supper is planned to be a small ham. I have my duck out to thaw as well as the Melton Mowbray pork pies for Christmas Eve / stocking stuffing. And yes, there is a story on why I have a tradition of pork pies and sherry on Christmas Eve that I started last year. Terry Pratchett's (a favourite author) HogFather is the source. A very fun read that was well adapted into a movie.

As there are no longer fresh pumpkins at the grocery store I picked up canned pumpkin to make a pie for Christmas Day with my brothers, their wives and my wee nephew. I also got probably far too many Granny Smith apples which a friend suggested are ideal for pies to make a covered Apple pie for my own Christmas feast. I strongly suspect that D26 got me a pie bird for Christmas when we were in Williamsburg. I also believe that Santa is bringing me a new grill that will be idea for making pancakes and sausages for my breakfast with S24 on Boxing Day.

To all my dear friends here. Best wishes for a very Merry Christmas. I may or may not be posting between now and then but will be checking in.


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Merry Christmas to you and your family. Sounds like you've got a few busy days ahead. Do try to carve out some "me" time along the way.


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Well - S24 just got in to his mother's car a few minutes ago. As usual, she never pulled in to the drive but instead parked across the street. It shouldn't bother me to see her even from that distance but yeah - it still does. I stayed in the living room far enough back that probably she couldn't see me watching her. She never turned her head towards the house.

I asked and S24 said that he won't be back until Boxing Day morning - later than I thought as I'd expected him back after supper on Christmas Day. I bought a cheap stocking for him as I expect he has taken his usual one with him and that will be filled and waiting for him when he gets home. I'll have to do my own I think.

I had an interesting encounter yesterday while on my walk. I bumped in to a neighbour of mine who is a never-married (I believe) bachelor and is also the handy-man for the store's owner that my ex works at.

He is "very" unimpressed with her even though they used to be good friends. He muttered a few times that he knows exactly where all the furniture that left my house went. He also mentioned that he had heard quite a few rumours about what my ex had been up to even shortly after she left. One bit of timeline that he mentioned though was interesting. When she moved out, she moved in to a small house at the edge of the village temporarily. The handyman then had to rush through getting the apartment ready for her but that the kitchen didn't get done before she moved in. Then he said that she was given some extra long vacation so that he could have 2 weeks uninterrupted to re-do the kitchen. That was when she emptied the joint savings and went to Roatan with OM. So it was a rather spontaneous event.

I did also hear through the grapevine that she's having a rough time of things emotionally at present. The suspicion is that she and OM are on the outs again. She didn't arrive in his truck for S24 like she has a couple of times in the past but was alone in her car.

I know that I shouldn't dwell on her at all and that yes, my son going to spend a couple of days with his mother is a good thing. I do miss what I had and the house feels particularly empty right now.

Going to crank up the Christmas music now and start the pot of chili I had planned on making.

Happy Christmas everyone!


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Andrew,

I am a firm believer that when the time is right, the man upstairs puts people in our path to give us info that helps up connect the dots. At least now you have a better idea that things weren't rosy over there at the get go and most likely still aren't. It's a shame that she can't face you, but the guilt and shame of what she's done and continues to do keeps her away. Eventually, it will come full circle and one day, when you least expect it, you will bump into her and she will have no choice but the to look you in the eye and maybe say something. But that's a ways down the road.

Your home may feel empty, but you've got your two beautiful cats and plenty of Christmas music to keep your rocking all night long.

It is a pleasure to read your postings and photos on FB.

Merry Christmas!


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Merry Christmas / Happy New Year all. Not much to report - just rambling / journaling as usual.

Despite my own struggling, it's been good. Odd that this year is tough - it should have been the year of new beginnings. Still stuck somewhat I suppose.

No indication at all from my ex of her pulling her head out of whatever tunnel she's in. She brought S24 home a couple of hours ago presumably just dropping him off on the side of the road as usual. I expect that she'll be a bit more confident going forward since he had a good time he said and she was able to "exert control" over me at least indirectly by acting arbitrarily in how he spent his Christmas. Or perhaps I don't exist in her world but that's perhaps doubtful. Not that it makes much difference.

I'd heard through the grapevine that they were off at her brother's (no telling if that was the truth - no reason to doubt it) so when I heard S24 come home at 3:00 am this morning I called "hello", got a response and went back to sleep. Then at 6:00 I heard a beep and him leave - presumably to clean the walk at the senior's home. It turns out that was all my imagination. I'm learning to accept that things that happen when I'm asleep may not be real but it is disturbing. I did actually get up at 3:30 for a glass of milk and did notice that there was no sign of S24 having been home. It is really weird though. My house is pretty easy to break in to but someone breaking in to have a nap for a couple of hours isn't likely. He did come home at around 8:30 I believe, and then did pop right out to take care of the senior's home walk. Since when she picked him up, her guy wasn't with her, we could presume that he didn't go to her family Christmas - but again - not my issue, no way to know without asking questions that aren't any of my business. He has his own kids and grand-children.

Christmas day was good all things considered. I had (and still have) a bit of an upset tummy perhaps due to over-indulgence on the days leading up to then. D26 and her H eventually were ready, called and we opened presents together. I got what is perhaps an official issue US Navy sweater, a pie bird and a storm glass. They liked their presents, even the silly ones. I didn't keep them too long as I thought they might have an appointment with my ex. Or perhaps they did that first. I did laugh because when I commented that I had no idea when S24 would be home, without even looking, D26 swung her hand over to cover her husband's mouth laugh

I then had a nice walk around the village for an hour or so. There is about 6 inches of snow here which is now melting. The park was particularly lovely and I walked along trails that had no footprints other than those of the wee animals that call that home.

In the afternoon I headed up to my oldest brother's place, about an hour drive away. I had a nice visit with both my brothers, their wives, my 2 1/2 year old nephew and my youngest brother's mother-in-law. YBMIL actually sees my ex quite regularly as she goes in to her store and has a strong dislike for her. She did say that my ex is still living over the store and had no comments about her being unhappy. Various unkind comments about my ex were shared to general merriment.

While I was there, the topic of FSL came up and so on a whim I pulled up her Facebook profile which used to be quite locked down with only one blurry picture visible. It is now less locked although there is only one picture of her and her S7 visible. I think SIL1 (who reads along here) was a bit disappointed because I have commented that I think FSL is quite pretty. In her picture she looks like an every-day mom - nice to me, but then I know her somewhat as a person, her smile and her spirit. SIL2 who knows her as she has been a past customer of her personal training studio opined that she is probably in her mid-40s but agreed based on how young her son is that she could be much younger.

I was very surprised at how big of a hit my pie was with multiple people taking seconds and me only suggesting once that the left-over pieces be left behind. I thought it was a decent pie and am grateful to the Pillsbury company for making the crust. I was pleased though. Even though I was encouraged to imbibe and stay the night I chose to head home early, especially to be with S24 when he got home.

He and I opened gifts this morning (I got a weather station) and he was happy with the socks and instant-pot I got him. I sent pictures to D26 and later a note thanking her for her thoughtfulness in sending something home with me. It turns out that his main gift from his sister had been sent back with his mother back in September or whenever she went to visit. I did notice that S24 came home with just the backpack he left with so I presume his mother didn't get him anything physically large. He did show me the slippers and hot sauces that his sister got him.

I did have a smile because as usual I picked up a fair number of mixed nuts for our stockings at home. I clearly remember his mother telling me to stop getting those "because nobody likes them". S24 was very keen on them last year and again this. It's one of our traditions. Also demonstrating that in some ways at least in the year before she left that my ex wasn't living outside her own head. I remember her going on at great length about a pretty underthing that she had bought to please me that she had worn it multiple times when I had no memory of that. I figured later she had been wearing it for OM - or I have crappy memory.

No word at all from CL. Only a slight surprise. I've also chosen to not reach out to her after-all and in the past 95% of the communication was initiated by me.

I'm expecting to see 20 something in the next week. There's extra chocolate here for her. It will be nice to see her and get one of the warm, vigorous hugs she is so good at. No idea if she will think to bring her boyfriend's truck and move her furniture in to one of my empty spare rooms.

So time shortly to start making my apple pie. I need to get the duck in to cook mid-afternoon. He should be well thawed. He's about 5lbs which is average for a small duck and it's 1/2 per lb. Boiled turnip, mashed potatoes, vegetables, fresh baked buns and of course duck, sausage dressing and mushroom gravy on the menu. I'll have extra if you are hungry and happen to stop by. Except the buns - those usually vanish pretty fast.

Getting the timing right is always tricky but I think a 1/2 hour before the duck is done is when to put on the turnip, potatoes and such. I'd asked Santa for covered serving dishes and he didn't come through so I'll have to improvise perhaps staging things in pots to keep warm before serving.

Tomorrow I make duck stew and put the left-over pie into the freezer in pieces to keep. I don't like having left-overs but it is what it is. S24 and I discussed that I have bought far too many apples for the pie and so we need to be eating them down over the next week or so.

Thanks everyone and best wishes for a Happy New Year. I'm sure I'll be writing something before then though. Now to find my apple pie recipe.


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Good Morning Andrew

You sound in very good spirits. You have a beautiful life dear friend, and an overly active imagination at night smile.

If I had to summarize your life I would choose - wholesome.

Good food, good morals and values, and good pleasures.

You and I have talked about your being somewhat stuck. Perhaps it is time to look at it differently. A wholesome life is not a bad thing to be stuck in. I feel that is some of the reluctance for you to leap, your values and ideals are such that you do not need or want to change.

How about, instead of trying to become unstuck from such a comforting and wholesome life, you see it as augmenting it. I must admit I see the idea of unsticking one’s self as letting go and dropping somethings to move on. Perhaps augmenting has more appeal in mind and heart than trying to fix being stuck.

So, on the cusp of a new year, new beginnings, and maybe even a new 180 - augment your life. It can remain as wholesome as ever, just more full and better. You do not need to replace anything or drop anything, just add to the richness, to your good pleasures.

Andrew, here is a 180, ask FSL (or GSL I believe you bought her coffee, or are they the same person) out for New Year’s Eve.

After you have slowed down your heart rate, breathing, and quit sweating - I am serious. Call the woman, you gave her chocolate coins for her son, just talk to her. Invite her for a walk or drive around town to look at decorations and lights. See how things go, talk about New Years, see if she has plans. And if she is free, ask her to go do something together - party, movie, dinner, whatever.

I know the fear, the confidence issues - be fearless. Look at what you have survived and gone through. You are not asking her to marry you, just spend some time together. Heck, you may find she is not your type at all. Ya I know, weird - you might actually be the one who does not want to continue, kind of like with CL. Point is until you try you will not know.

A new start is just around the corner, and a whole world of possibilities. Take a leap and add to your life.

A while ago, I wrote, felt, and believe you are on the cusp of a new chapter in your book of life, some new realizations, and possibilities. I still do.

I hope you do as well.

Add to your book Andrew.

Add to that so wholesome life.

Have a very wonderful New Year’s.

If you have a few extra pies, I do like apple.

DnJ


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Originally Posted by DnJ
If you have a few extra pies, I do like apple.
If you find me on Instagram (or FB) you'll see my large apple pie that I just set out a short while ago to cool along with a batch of (pre-made) Christmas cookies. The pie bird my daughter gave me seems to have worked splendidly.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
...so when I heard S24 come home at 3:00 am this morning I called "hello", got a response and went back to sleep. Then at 6:00 I heard a beep and him leave - presumably to clean the walk at the senior's home. It turns out that was all my imagination. I'm learning to accept that things that happen when I'm asleep may not be real but it is disturbing.


No worries mate. The vivid dreams that merge with reality shouldn't bother you. What should bother you is the subject matter. You need to replace thoughts and dreams of your son with something more enticing, like a yacht filled with bikini clad babes that are yearning for Andrew's attention. Once you do that, all will be good again. Next thing you know, you'll be kvetching about nocturnal emissions.

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Originally Posted by doodler
like a yacht filled with bikini clad babes that are yearning for Andrew's attention. Once you do that, all will be good again. Next thing you know, you'll be kvetching about nocturnal emissions.
I have some drawings for a very nice ketch. And since you are from the South, yes a ketch is different from a yawl. I presumed that you mis-spelled ketch being an American and not knowing how to properly use the Queen's English.

Scantily clad is best for sailing. You don't want excess clothing getting tangled up in the rigging. My sloop though would fit at least one scantily clad mate. A 16' on deck gaff rigged sloop that sadly hasn't been in the water for a number of years. 23' overall including the bow sprit and rudder. I'd be looking for a crew member of a moderately good size otherwise I'll have to reef in anything over a moderate breeze. The Floating Bear has no ballast other than what the crew provides. FSL is probably at least 5' 9" and has noticeable curves. I've noticed them anyway.

For nocturnal voyages it's important to follow Chapman's rules of navigation and have the appropriate lights depending on whether you are anchored, proceeding under sail or steam.

And yes - I did pour a significant amount of sherry on the duck I'm currently roasting. Time to go baste. laugh


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That's kvetching as in whining like a littler girl. smile I did a boatload of sailing when I was a kid, but it was a dingy.

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Your pie looks delicious! You did a great job on it and I'm sure it is as good as the one you baked and took to your brother's place.

I agree...it's time to ask the FSL out. A new year is around the corner and it's time for Andrew to start dipping his toe in the pond and see what happens. Adventures are out there waiting for you!


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Andrew,

Okay, now I'm going to kvetch; in my sentence above, "littler" is supposed to be "little." The "r" arrived after I finished typing. I swear on a stack of bibles.

But, that's not why I'm here. I'm here because you're a man who likes narrative. I just came across this profound paragraph (IMHO):

The world can be validly construed as a forum for action, as well as a place of things. We describe the
world as a place of things, using the formal methods of science. The techniques of narrative, however –
myth, literature, and drama – portray the world as a forum for action. The two forms of representation
have been unnecessarily set at odds, because we have not yet formed a clear picture of their respective
domains. The domain of the former is the “objective world” – what is, from the perspective of
intersubjective perception. The domain of the latter is “the world of value” – what is and what should be,
from the perspective of emotion and action.


Without googling, can you tell me who wrote that?

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Originally Posted by doodler
Without googling, can you tell me who wrote that?
Nope. So I googled. Unsurprised to see Jordan Peterson. You've suggested before that I would be interested in his work. One of the first results was a Quora article that discussed how his philosophy of narrative also implied the creation of a reality based on that.

Funnily enough - my ex-wife was like that. She would come up with things and then believe them to be true like the time she said that we were dry-walling the front porch (we weren't). I do think that she told her narrative of the world she wanted, rather than the one she had and presumably still does. It used to annoy me when we were married. Oddly, I think that when asked direct questions by me about her affair that she never lied. She could have easily gas-lighted me. Odd that she didn't. Perhaps she respected me too much to do that. We can hope that to be true.

I think my use of narrative is more to examine and explore the nuances of the environment around me. Despite very real bouts of cognitive dissonance that still happen, I like to feel that I am grounded in a valid shared reality.

Christmas dinner was good. I was pleased with how everything turned out. Slightly worried because the cook was reasonably well basted as was the roast duck by the time I got to the end. Far too many left-overs that I need to deal with. I'm working from home today so I'll put the bones on to boil shortly and then after work make up batches of duck stew.

S24 napped most of the day undoubtedly tired from his adventures with his mother but we made our way through a fair amount of food. I'm certainly wearing stretchy pants today.

The pie bird that my daughter got me worked quite well as well and the pie I think was one of my better ones. I sliced it up and froze the remaining pieces. It's nice to have something decorative and useful.

Speaking of decorative, I did slip and message CL a picture of my messy post-dinner kitchen. Unusually she replied moderately promptly also letting me know she was in-transit in Georgia. Presumably on her way to Florida for a week or so. If you see her around doodler, say "hi" wink I'd not intended to give her the impression that I was sitting on the shelf waiting to be dusted but rather just not be there when she looked around. Cognitive dissonance again. It's a thing. What will the new year bring there? Well, her schedule should be opening up a bit and her divorce will probably be getting nailed down. Does she still imagine grand adventures with me and have "plans" - presuming that has been the case in the past - we'll perhaps see. Or perhaps not. There is a lovely blonde lady who has a pretty smile and sells me flowers. And there are other people that I see around me when I open my eyes.

Me - well I think I'm doing a bit better now that Christmas is behind me. No "Christmas Miracle" for me. Very likely for the best. I undoubtedly won't hear anything from / about my ex for some time now. It's good that the kids seem to have a relationship of sorts with her as well as strong boundaries at least with me. No clue if they tell her about my life but we all expect that S24 has been and continues to be a conduit of information. And I really have no issue with that. D26 probably is silent on my life.

The level of honesty and humility that would be required for her to look me in the eye she doesn't have and probably never will. Part of the discussion I had with SIL1 is that the clock is certainly ticking for her. She has just a hair over 5 more years of support coming from me. The owners of her store and very cheap apartment are getting fairly old and really could have retired any time in the past 10 years.

Circling back, I am curious as to what her narrative is at present and how much of it represents the reality as historical facts would state. What journey is she on and what destination does she have?

Ah well - I wrote and deleted a few paragraphs of speculation in the two paragraphs above. It really doesn't matter to me. A lot of me feels sorry for her and being a rescuer that is dangerous. I though have no clue what her current state is. Unlike myself who posted multiple pictures of my pies and the makings of a reasonably happy Christmas, dead air from her. Which of us is the one that is struggling based on that? At least at present I am doing well health wise and financially. I do need to get off my duff and work on applying for new jobs though although staying where I am would mean probably a better retirement and earlier. Presuming my job doesn't vanish which I keep being assured isn't happening.

For me, my journey is reasonably well mapped out at present and is fairly low speed. I do intend to put some effort in to finding someone to journey alongside with me. I intend to stay in my home for the foreseeable future. I will be encouraging S24 on his own journey to an independent life and not looking to his mother for help on that although that would be a helpful and reasonable thing for her to do.

Despite my flaws, many of which I freely admit to, I do think that I have a lot to offer someone special. And there are a large number of special people in the world, a number of whom I am sure would be happy to be that special someone. To paraphrase some advice that Jack_Three_Beans gave me a long time ago - it doesn't matter how big that number is. It only needs to be one.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Originally Posted by doodler
Without googling, can you tell me who wrote that?
Nope. So I googled. Unsurprised to see Jordan Peterson. You've suggested before that I would be interested in his work. One of the first results was a Quora article that discussed how his philosophy of narrative also implied the creation of a reality based on that.


Mostly, I thought of JP because he's Canadian and he's had very vivid, and apparently somewhat traumatic, dreams himself. You two have a couple of things in common.

Much like Sam Harris, I've always been a "materialist" philosophically. In other words, the material world is our reality. But, Sam Harris believes that consciousness is just a thinly veiled shell game that gives us the illusion of being free agents in a deterministic world. I never could swallow that.

I don't think Peterson believes that narrative creates objective reality (the world of objects). I think he believes narratives creates our perceptions of the objective world as well as providing the impetus for taking action in the objective world in order to manifest a certain result (i.e. decide what we want, set a goal and take action to work toward that goal).

We're so familiar with doing the things in the real world that we forget how magical the process of creating something can be. I'm helping my youngest son build a go kart and it's a wonderful process of going from conception (pure thought) to an actual real world object based on the original concept that didn't exist in the physical world. In the context of everyday life, we call it work, but when you're building a go kart, it's pure fun.


Originally Posted by AndrewP
Funnily enough - my ex-wife was like that. She would come up with things and then believe them to be true like the time she said that we were dry-walling the front porch (we weren't). I do think that she told her narrative of the world she wanted, rather than the one she had and presumably still does. It used to annoy me when we were married. Oddly, I think that when asked direct questions by me about her affair that she never lied. She could have easily gas-lighted me. Odd that she didn't. Perhaps she respected me too much to do that. We can hope that to be true.


My wife (now XW) did the gaslighting thing; I was questioning my own sanity. But, she had issues with dissociation because of childhood trauma, so I'd bet that she actually believed some of the stuff that she told me. I don't know and I'll never know.


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Well - interesting day today.

No - I did not ask FSL out.

Dear diary .....

There's a favourite artist called Dave Kellett who recently did a cartoon titled "anatomy of Dale Carnegie" - check it out - it's fun especially because of the nicely drawn bow tie. In there, it summarizes "how to make friends and influence people" as "you be nice, people be nice back". It also mentions how important it is to remember people's names. Something I'm horrible at. One thing that my ex felt that she was good at and something I am and try hard to do is to listen and remember. In my ex's case I don't think she ever noticed when I stopped talking sharing.

Anyhoodles - on Friday nights on the way home I usually stop at the beer store and pick up a couple of cans of Foster's Lager. There's a nice young lady working there and we usually pass the time of day. I've been learning about her and her interests so when I stopped in this past Friday I was able to ask how her birthday went (boxing day - she turned 29), how her son is doing yadda yadda yadda. I think she was rather flattered. She's mentioned a significant other and in-laws in passing - not in a "I'm single so back off creepy old man" way - just being friendly. I always get great service and she's a sweet kid. She's been under the weather for a bit lately - hopefully feeling better soon.

I think it's good practice for the whole getting to know people organically and generally just being part of a community thing. I will admit that if anyone doesn't know I'm single withing 20 minutes of meeting me, I'm off my game laugh Personally I am a believer in community and if she happens to mention to an acquaintance "hey there's this nice grey haired dude who comes in Friday after work who happens to be single" that can be a good thing.

Speaking of people knowing I'm single, I had an awkward and odd encounter at work on Friday. I was looking through boxes to see if there was one suitable for some stuff I'm purging and mentioned to one of the clerical people (asking if there were other boxes) that I was purging some stuff from my ex-wife that I didn't want. She seemed surprised that I was single (where has she been living - under a rock?) and was extra surprised when I said that I wasn't dating anyone. Earlier in the day though she had come to ask me a question and while standing there had put her hand down her top to scratch. Yeah - ew. She's cute enough but is one of those people who expects others to do her job for her and who refuses to learn new things.

I'm 90% sure she's single herself and after she learned that I was she seem "very friendly". I beat a retreat without any boxes.

--------------

Today was a pretty typical Saturday. For excitement's sake I've decided that I'm switching from briefs to boxers. Yeah - I know - craziness. I switched the types of undershirts a short while after my ex left. If she were to see my laundry line next spring she'll perhaps wonder if I've moved out wink

At the flower shop the owner already had my roses out before I walked in the door. We had a nice chat. She is in many ways a better match than FSL other than the fact that as far as I know she currently has a boyfriend. She's closer in age to me for one thing. She did seem very happy to see me. As we were chatting (she thought my Christmas pies looked quite tasty and was fascinated by the idea of a pie bird which I could see the wheels spinning of "would these sell here") FSL came in in an absolute rage about the fact that she had a problem with the service getting her lunch-time sandwich. I was rather startled. I knew she had a temper but to me what she was complaining about was pretty small potatoes. I was counseled to run which I did at a moderate walk wishing all a Happy New Year.

I took a chance later to stop by the gift shop in the village where I first apologized for not bringing in coffee since the cafe was closed. My bonafides established, I mentioned that I was looking for a new swag to replace an old one that I have and browsed briefly. We ended up chatting for well over an hour (the shop was dead). It turns out that GSL knows how to weld which I think is a pretty awesome skill and she has a pretty varied history. She was in a major car accident about 4 years ago which I think has given her some lingering problems. When she found out that I did "computery" things she asked for help with her shop Facebook page. I did tell her that there was a very limited number of people that I would help out but said that I'd have a look. I left shortly before closing time (4:00) pretty sure that I've at least made a new friend. It was funny when I was in there that another person came in to talk to her about some things that he could supply (it's a consignment shop) and recognized me even though I had no clue who he was. Introductions were made. I also made a point of formally saying "Hi my name is" to GSL just before leaving which was returned. I'm pretty sure that she's maybe about 5 years older than me. Certainly not much younger than me if at all. She does seem nice if perhaps more than a bit "complex".

I think that she thinks that I'm an interesting person and our paths will certainly cross again. She is certainly interesting to me but perhaps not in "that way". I get the impression that she's not good at sticking with one thing for a long period of time and tends to spin off in different directions on a whim. Kind of a cool lifestyle and one I respect but not really compatible with mine. We'll see.

Well - time to get my new underwear out of the dryer (exciting isn't it) and to get the left-over chili heated up for my dinner. GSL was impressed with my tales of soup making prowess and I may be doing a butternut squash soup on Sunday although I was also thinking of tossing squash cubes in duck fat and baking that. Such tough decisions in my current life.

2 days until the New Year. I have snacks procured. Smooches will not happen this year unless a true miracle happens. S24 might be spending it here with me so I got a shrimp ring which he loves and I don't.

A bien tot mes ami.


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Happy New Year everyone!

I just want to say a big Thank You to everyone who has walked beside me, both those who are still doing so and those whose paths have gone in other directions.

A quiet evening is planned here at Chez P. S24 staying in as well. His prior plans had been canceled and "of course" he's not spending it with his mother.

I had an odd occurrence yesterday morning. I have a nice "welcome" sign on my door that is shaped like a heart with a star and "welcome" nailed to it. I put it back up a couple of days ago replacing the Christmas themed one that I had up for the season. Yesterday oddly, while the sign was still on the door, the star had "fallen out" and was in the flower beds. Vandalism? Small elves? Ghosts? All unlikely in my little village with the exception of ghosts who have snuck in to my house and broken wine bottles. The wind and random movements of the cosmos is the only answer I can come up with. The sign is all fixed but it is a puzzler.

I did get a couple of messages from GSL with respect to some questions on her business Facebook page. She seems like a nice person - certainly nothing beyond friendly there but it is still early days.

For interests sake I spent a couple of hours this afternoon (only half day for work so I stayed home) and put together a spreadsheet doing a financial comparison going back to 2010 as part of fine-tuning my 2019 budget. It was a bit of a challenge as I was using QuickBooks up to mid 2012 which I switched to YNAB and then closed those books at the end of 2016 and started a fresh set in 2017. Some some math was required especially since I've made some significant changes over time to how I record income and expenses.

It was interesting to see how things changed over time. My grocery bill for S24 and I is still about a thousand smaller than what it was for my ex and I. It does appear that the incremental cost of S24 being here is about $2k in that category. Clothing has of course gone way way down as has entertainment.

Not making car payments is of course a major savings but that is intended to change in 2019. The amount that was being sent to the kids was very significant and now is more or less nothing. Just S24's life insurance. S24 happened to wander by as I was fiddling the numbers and so I showed him the numbers and pointed out those ones where I save out of every pay like insurance and property taxes.

The income number of course went way down fairly significantly but because here I pay support with "before tax" money I got a fair bump up in income due to a decrease in taxes. In fact I got an increase of roughly half of what I pay out. Also since I now only have budgeted for S24's life insurance which I've been nudging him to take over, there's a nearly $10K savings there compared to 2017. Both of those combined essentially off-set the entire amount of support I pay.

One of the things I was looking for was to see how much of my expenses was related to my ex and if with her income no longer contributing as well as the spousal support on how comparable the numbers were now vs to when we were a functioning family unit. The impression I get is that I'm actually slightly ahead of where "we" were as a couple. Weird.

I've put in a fairly large number for vacation next year and may go to Spain for a week. CL had assured me when she was "bombing" me in the summer that she would go with me and ensure that I was able to order tapas without worry. I do wonder what's up with her these days. I've not heard anything from her other than that one note in response to my post Christmas message. I may send her a "Happy New Year" at midnight. Or maybe not.

I went back and re-read my postings from New Years Eve / Day from the past couple of years. It is indeed amazing how far I've come. 2016 I still had hope and was very wrapped up in doing my best to protect and preserve. 2017 I was largely indifferent but still in a fair amount of pain. 2018 - well - I'm doing OK overall. It does cross my mind to wonder how my ex is doing. We usually spent New Years Eve in cuddled up together reading and watching Dick Clark. "Interestingly" for NYE 2015 we had unusually for us gone out and visited a few neighbours and stayed at a party with her "bestie" where she loudly announced that I had been worried about her having an affair and how silly that was. That was perhaps a week or so before her affair went physical and 3 months before bomb-day. I do believe that she spent part of the party telling people about her wonderful new guy and how oblivious I was.

I have picked up the "traditional" snacks that we would normally have that I'll cook up in a couple of hours for S24 and I to share. I'll perhaps use the new serving bowls I picked up on the weekend at a local discount place.

I do confess to some mild curiosity as to what she's up to tonight. Spending time with her guy? Out with friends? Home alone with her incontinent Pomeranian wondering what I'm up to? The freezing rain is just starting now in earnest (hope the power stays on) with heavy snow also possible. Staying put is certainly the wisest course. At heart I think she is perhaps still the conservative matron she was for most of our married life. I've not had any new information passed on so presumably she's not posted on social media about her Christmas or New Years - truly odd but the pattern of her life now. In her tunnel with the end pulled in after her lest anyone judge her.

I did some more purging on the weekend, going through the dining room cupboards and the downstairs bathroom. If I didn't know what it was and haven't used it, it went in to either the donate box or trash. In the bathroom there were three jars of sand and shells from past vacations that my ex loved. I did separate the sea shells from the sand and set that aside for 20 something who said she wanted them and tossed the sand in to the yard. I'll need to perhaps decorate the shelves which now look quite barren.

Well - I need to do some dishes and I have a library book on the pre-Columbus history of the Americas that I was finally able to renew and will hopefully finish this time. I do need to try to find Dick Clark's Rockin' New Years Eve on my Apple TV later. That is a tradition that actually pre-dates my ex but one that she participated in for many many years.

Best wishes all.


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Happy New Year all!

Quiet evening last night. A bit too much chicken milk and wine was perhaps consumed but I am unsupervised. S24 was physically in the building but spent the evening in his room only emerging to scoop up half of the snacks after I prepared them.

I wasn't able to reliably find Dick Clark's Rockin New Years Eve streaming but did watch the ABC News feed which was just mostly people standing around being cold.

I did have a bit of a startle fairly early in the evening when out of the blue I got a "Happy New Year" email from the nice lady I had a date with in late 2017. She used to run the local bookshop but is now retired. Since I'd had a couple of glasses, I let it sit until this morning and emailed her back returning the wish for a great 2019. It seemed like a fairly obvious fishing attempt and while I do quite like her there was no chemistry.

At midnight I gave my cat Amy a big smooch which she endured for a short while and then texted / messaged some special friends (yes including CL) and family a Happy New Year. I stayed up for a bit and watched a short movie and then off to bed. ZZZZ - a normal single guy New Years Eve. As of this time, CL still hasn't picked up the message I sent. She's not very active on social media though.

One thing different this year was that I really had little curiosity about what my ex is up to and was in no way tempted to reach out to her.

SIL1 who loves to speculate and who is still connected to my ex on FB sent me a meme late yesterday "what would you do if your ex knocked on your door and said "I have no place to sleep" ". Well, the reality is that I would make up the spare room for her and make her a nice breakfast. Just what I'd do if pretty much any random person knocked on the door in trouble on a cold winter's evening.

I do know that my ex is still regularly on FB because my daughter posted a lovely picture of her and her H just after midnight and this morning there was a "like" on it that I couldn't see. But she doesn't put anything out there for anyone else to see.

I will admit that I feel quite sorry for the sort of life I believe that she is living. It is absolutely her own doing and the result of her choices. She could have diverted from the path she took any number of times. To quote a favourite author Terry Pratchett - "There is always time for another last minute". That is certainly something that I learned over the last few years. On bomb-day all I could see was darkness in front of me and thought that my life was over. I couldn't imagine a life without her nor could I imagine a life with someone else. After all - I was old and ugly and who'd want me? And I really had no where to turn which is when I came here and found a community of people who I hoped had the answers to fix what had gone wrong.

Well - I've learned that I'm not all that old. Also to my surprise a (small) number of very beautiful, charming and talented women have made it clear at one time or another that they like spending time with me. And I am confident that when I put myself out there, that I can indeed find a charming woman with a kind heart and sense of humour that I can spend time with. I've also learned that there is no rush to do this. I've additionally learned that there are a large number of very kind people out there who have helped me to stand up when I've felt like I couldn't move on.

I contrast this with something that came as a bit of a shock to me yesterday. One of my nieces had split from her boyfriend a few months ago and I believe had moved in with her brother with her two boys. Last night she posted pictures of herself smooching a new guy. She's 27 so perhaps things move at a different speed. I regularly notice people going quickly from one relationship to another and sometimes wonder "what's wrong with me?" and then turn it upside down and ask "what's wrong with them?"

On the other hand my ex went from happily married to affair and throwing it all away in the course of just a couple of months. I know that I'm impulsive but sheesh! Time and distance has given me I think a better perspective on what happened and why and I think that there were multiple factors and actors involved in both pushing and pulling her down the rabbit hole she ended up in. Depression and menopause undoubtedly played a part as well. I would expect that she's through menopause by now and has been for some time. Like many of us BS types, I wish for her to have a better future than the present that I imagine her to be living. One where she's often alone and has isolated herself to a degree that she's unable to enjoy this wonderful world that we all share.

Will she be able to find the strength to do that? Aye - there's the rub. In comparing her and her path to others that I've read about and witnessed, she's not nearly gone as far off the deep end as many. She's kept her job. While she undoubtedly has started smoking pot from time to time she's unlikely dealing with any sort of addiction. As far as I know she's been "faithful" to her guy and is not hopping from bed to bed. He well might be but I doubt if she is. She is most likely still at her core the same person that I adored, respected and loved for more than half of my life. A strong woman who wants to be loved and respected. Yes, she had and undoubtedly still has many flaws - none of us are perfect. But as I mentioned earlier, does she have the strength and courage to accept what she did? Thinking that over carefully, I think that the answer is yes - but in time. If she were able to get the brass ring she risked everything for I think that would be a key thing to push her towards acceptance. Without that, she will have to pull herself up.

But that is her story and no longer mine. And my narrative may well not be her reality.

Well - enough philosophy for now I suppose.

While typing this up, I've balanced and largely closed my books for 2018. I've also queued up a backup of my Google account and emails that do once a quarter and backed up my cell phone messages (yeah - I'm "that" guy). Once that's done I'll make duplicate copies on two different portable hard drives.

20 Something also called and she will be stopping by late this afternoon for a visit. On Sunday she's putting her furniture here and it sounds like there's a fair amount of it. I had to clear the brush out of the utility trailer for her to borrow it along with her using her boyfriend's truck. I may actually have to shift some things around to make room for it all. It will be nice though to be able to have a spare bedroom that I can actually keep made up for guests - not that I often get them.

Today's plan is to pack up the Christmas stuff and take it easy. First though off to the tub for a nice soak with my book and a fresh pot of tea.

Yeah - life is good. I certainly do have lots of room in my home, heart and life though if anyone stops by and 2019 is the year that I am finally truly open to doing this.


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Happy New Year AP! I hope you find peace and happiness in 2019 and maybe a lovely lady to snuggle up with so you can give your poor kitty a break!! :0)


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Hello Andrew

Happy New Year!

Kids and I just finished a game of Monopoly, and we are all still speaking to one another. Wow!

I am having a late lunch and catching up with your musings.

It is interesting to see how much better off financially, we, the LBS, actually is from where we thought we would be. And as you’ve pointed out, this also goes for life. It is not anywhere as close to as dark as we thought it would be, or for as long. It is a neat viewpoint.

Reality only exists in our heads. Viewpoint and perception have a huge impact on that. Does a falling tree make any sound if you are not there to hear it? The real question is - Does the tree even fall?

I am glad for your shifts in perception. We do start off feeling old, ugly, and life is now over. Things others know are not true, and we struggle to let go of. It takes a while, eventually finding our center and seeing clearly. You do indeed have a lot to offer. You even have your own hair and teeth, if I recall correctly. smile

Our spouses also have their viewpoints and respective realities.

Which are “truly” real?

(No, this is not a Matrix review)

Interaction with other people, places, and things will give or take away credence from one’s reality. In our case feedback from people here and IRL, and your bank account statement also shows what is real - pretty hard to perceive or believe things are better when the account is overdrawn. This is where our spouses fall in.

The enablers can and do prop up things for a while. And a lot of energy and effort is required to maintain a fantasy reality. This is not the effort and energies poured into healing and growing, in that you are gaining and adding richness to your reality. When it takes a great deal of effort and work to just maintain your view, something is wrong.

Everything tends towards maximum entropy. Therefore, the closer one is to that equilibrium, the closer one is to true reality. It takes very little energy to see truely, it takes a lot to run and escape.

My goodness, what was in that casserole? I must have ingested something. Did I knock the bottle of red pills into the pot again?


My own New Year Eve was spent with my kids. We decided to watch Harry Potter, a marathon of the movies one through four. Sooo many hours, we stopped because we ran out of time. I did make it till 1:00 am. I think we are going to finish the remainder in a weekend or two from now.

Well I have laundry, dishes, garbage, etc... ah reality. My own entropy does seem pretty high, as does your’s.

Best wishes for 2019.

DnJ


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Coly! I'd hoped you were still coming by from time to time. I read your most recent update and am frankly confused but you seem to be happy and strong and that's a good thing.

Originally Posted by DnJ
You even have your own hair and teeth, if I recall correctly. smile
An underappreciated feature. The nice lady who runs the gift shop is rather short on the teeth area. It happens. Hair I'm rather over-supplied with. Pre-bomb-day I actually had a pony-tail that ran most of the way down my back. Now I have a more George Clooney crew cut and well trimmed beard for winter. But there are a number of good reasons why my ex-wife insisted that I not go outside with my shirt off during the spring bear hunt. I will keep my shirt on for maximal safety. I do have a dentist appointment tomorrow morning where I will assure them that I've been flossing all year. I am blessed that I inherited my father's good teeth.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Reality only exists in our heads. Viewpoint and perception have a huge impact on that. Does a falling tree make any sound if you are not there to hear it? The real question is - Does the tree even fall?
Ah yes Schrödinger's cat. The universe is a vast place, largely uninhabited. Heisenberg also applies here. By observing an event we manipulate the outcome. The real challenge for a true scientist is to set the experiment in such a fashion that biases are minimized. I remember commenting on a friend's PhD thesis recently on how her methods had an inherent bias because the statistics she was using were self-reporting. My own belief is that reality is not that which we observe, but that which occurs and of which we only observe a part. The tree will fall whether we observe it or not. Sounds are a disturbance in air flow which happens regardless of our ears being in the path of that.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Everything tends towards maximum entropy. Therefore, the closer one is to that equilibrium, the closer one is to true reality. It takes very little energy to see truely, it takes a lot to run and escape.
I'm a firm believer in Newtonian physics. A body in denial and running away will continue to do so until either friction or a counter-acting force changes that. Given your profession DnJ I am sure you are familiar with the concept of the "butterfly effect". There is a frustratingly and fascinating amount of things that we don't know and never will. And seemingly trivial causes can have significant effects. As my previous few posts have indicated this is something that occupies my mind.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Well I have laundry, dishes, garbage, etc... ah reality. My own entropy does seem pretty high, as does your’s.

Best wishes for 2019.

DnJ
Thanks so much. As I often joke "A man's work is never done". I believe that 2019 will be transformative years for both of us. You are chronologically a year behind me but in terms of healing, in large part because of your loving family, are perhaps ahead of me in that.

-------------------------

'Tis the season for unexpectedness I think. Just putting this out there in the context of what I've written before and I would appreciate some input. I rather unexpectedly got a message from CL. She and her kids are having a grand time at Epcott and she messaged me a picture of the three of them smiling. Certainly posed and directed to me specifically rather than a generic picture for social media and undoubtedly her kids were well aware of where the picture was being sent. A fresh dusting of the shelf perhaps? The kids are coming around to the idea that I exist?

I did feel a bit weird as I was in the middle of making a very basic bachelor dinner for myself and did indeed feel a bit "unattractive" in my shabby but neat home. Some farmers sausage with onions and left-over turnip casserole. Certainly not posh by any standard. Then I get this picture of a beautiful smiling woman and her kids - waves - oh - hi smile Hauls up his boxers. Pastel coloured.

A joke I will sometimes make is "where are we going and what are we all doing in this hand-basket".

I think my real question about CL is what is really going on here? She's an executive with an engineering firm as well as a biblical scholar. I freely admit that she well may be smarter than me and being as I am well qualified to be in Mensa which does not at all mean that I have any skills with human relationships.

On another note 20S and boyfriend d'jour stopped by. Several hugs were shared. It seems that Sunday I will suddenly get a fair amount of furniture. 20S was wearing a sparkly ring on her left hand but it was quickly pointed out that it was not an engagement ring.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
I freely admit that she well may be smarter than me and being as I am well qualified to be in Mensa which does not at all mean that I have any skills with human relationships.


Mensa! Totally dude!

I used to work with a psychometrician who was a Mensa member and he was extremely smart. (Okay, that was redundant, but I'm one of those that forages for the crumbs of the giants.) He introduced computer based testing (CBT) into our organization. Implementation of the CBT worked so well that management decided they no longer needed a psychometrician. Poof, he was gone. Oh well.

Anyway, that's the perfect segue to my new found passion to do my very best to right all of the wrongs that society hath wrought. The first item on my agenda is very important; I’d like to propose removing one letter from the English alphabet.

Here’s my story. I find the phrase, “the N word” very triggering because it causes me to think of the actual offensive word. Instead of using the phrase “the N word,” I’d prefer the phrase “the word starting with that unmentionable first letter.” Unfortunately, that phrase can also be triggering because it may cause me to think of all of the first letters that that may be unmentionable. It’s the ultimate trigger-trigger. That’s like an infinitely recursing trigger.

As a solution to the conundrum, I propose that we do away with the letter “N” in the English alphabet. I’d argue that the letter is superfluous, and thus totally unnecessary. I’m advocating for a proposal to outlaw the use of the letter “N’ in the English alphabet. Who needs 26 letters when you can make due with 25?

What are your thoughts, Adrew?

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Originally Posted by AndrewP


'Tis the season for unexpectedness I think. Just putting this out there in the context of what I've written before and I would appreciate some input. I rather unexpectedly got a message from CL. She and her kids are having a grand time at Epcott and she messaged me a picture of the three of them smiling. Certainly posed and directed to me specifically rather than a generic picture for social media and undoubtedly her kids were well aware of where the picture was being sent. A fresh dusting of the shelf perhaps? The kids are coming around to the idea that I exist?

I did feel a bit weird as I was in the middle of making a very basic bachelor dinner for myself and did indeed feel a bit "unattractive" in my shabby but neat home. Some farmers sausage with onions and left-over turnip casserole. Certainly not posh by any standard. Then I get this picture of a beautiful smiling woman and her kids - waves - oh - hi smile Hauls up his boxers. Pastel coloured.

A joke I will sometimes make is "where are we going and what are we all doing in this hand-basket".

I think my real question about CL is what is really going on here? She's an executive with an engineering firm as well as a biblical scholar. I freely admit that she well may be smarter than me and being as I am well qualified to be in Mensa which does not at all mean that I have any skills with human relationships.





Happy New Year, Andrew! I hope 2019 brings you all of the things that you desire and deserve.

I want to let you in on a little secret. You are a catch. You don't seem to realize it but you are a catch, indeed. You are intelligent, caring, hard-working, and come across as a true, sincere gentleman (which I am pretty sure is who you really are IRL because that kind of thing is a bit hard to fake). I think CL uses you as a soft place to fall because you are comfortable for her. And, you kind of feed into her ego a bit because you are readily available to her at her whim. You speak to us of talking to other women and possibly even having an interest in dating others, but I would bet that, to CL, you NEVER present any of that information, so you kind of look like that single guy who is sitting around waiting for her because you are always there for her. Stop being so "there" for her. Start pursuing all these others that you mention. You are a catch, so get out there and start being caught. Did I mention that I'm on team flower shop lady? wink


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Originally Posted by doodler
Who needs 26 letters when you can make due with 25?

What are your thoughts, Adrew?
I live in a village founded by Germans that ends - perhaps un-necessarily with dt as does my last name.

Many moons ago, the village clerk sent me an email with my last name - which ends with a T - with dt on it instead. So I responded politely changing each and every t in my email to a dt. Good times .... Good times ....

If we censor one letter, what's to stop us from going down the slippery slope and getting rid of all except one? It's tough enough to read my postings here I'm sure without them being nothing but "oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"

Also, keep in mind that we are a multi-lingual country and there is not only the usual plethora of alphabetic splendor, but also accented letters &c Would you also do this to the French language? A language where words have sex?

Perhaps best to leave the rich diversity and related confusion.

Oh and while I've tested high enough and done the sample Mensa tests, I've never bothered actually trying to become a member.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
If we censor one letter, what's to stop us from going down the slippery slope and getting rid of all except one? It's tough enough to read my postings here I'm sure without them being nothing but "oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"


That's the problem with you thinkers! I know that letters aren't innately evil, but you can extend that logic to entire words. What would we do then?

Originally Posted by AndrewP
A language where words have sex?


When the words have sex, are they making little baby words?

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" Certainly posed and directed to me specifically rather than a generic picture for social media and undoubtedly her kids were well aware of where the picture was being sent."

I'm confused. How did the kids know she was going to send this picture to you??

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Thanks for the visit Dawn.
Originally Posted by Dawn70
Happy New Year, Andrew! I hope 2019 brings you all of the things that you desire and deserve.

I want to let you in on a little secret. You are a catch. You don't seem to realize it but you are a catch, indeed. You are intelligent, caring, hard-working, and come across as a true, sincere gentleman (which I am pretty sure is who you really are IRL because that kind of thing is a bit hard to fake). I think CL uses you as a soft place to fall because you are comfortable for her. And, you kind of feed into her ego a bit because you are readily available to her at her whim. You speak to us of talking to other women and possibly even having an interest in dating others, but I would bet that, to CL, you NEVER present any of that information, so you kind of look like that single guy who is sitting around waiting for her because you are always there for her. Stop being so "there" for her. Start pursuing all these others that you mention. You are a catch, so get out there and start being caught. Did I mention that I'm on team flower shop lady? wink
Awe shucks blush You're going to turn my head with that purty talk.

I know intellectually that you are perhaps right. Anecdotally there does seem to be a shortage of established, stable middle-aged men. I've got good teeth (just had my check-up this morning), the bank and I own my home, I have a reasonably well paying job and no debt outside my rather modest mortgage. And yes, I was raised to be polite and respectful, especially to women and open doors, give my seat to an older person and such-like.

I do know that unlike some here that my ex was largely unable to enunciate why she had to leave me - as I didn't understand that she was running "to" something and not "away". Even the usual list of ILY But .. never happened. I do recall having a big smile when Westo refered to her as "daft". I do know that a number of women of my ex's acquaintance were jealous of how well she was treated in comparison to the norm. Regular comments of "you need to keep that one" were made - some sadly during the height of when she still lived here but was rubbing her affair in my nose. The only ones who didn't seem to care for me were her siblings. Both of whom had had affairs and undoubtedly helped grease her way down that path.

I was closely kept under her thumb but she did perhaps do a moderately good job of "training" me. I joked to a friend the other day that just because the rider fell off, this old horse still knows how to pull the plow. I've even picked up a few new skills in the last couple of years becoming a better cook than I was, discovering that I like making small talk with people.

My problem perhaps is that I am still so used to the idea of being secondary in a relationship that taking the initiative is hard for me. That's where a woman like CL who at one point seemed to have a clear plan for me had an advantage. It allowed me to shrug my shoulders and go "ok". Looking back over the past, every single intimate relationship I've ever had was one where I was the pursued and not the pursuer. Those ones where I was more active turned in to some very nice more or less platonic friendships. When I met my ex in 1988 we had been set up unknown to me and when I walked her home (it was late) she literally never let me out of her grip.

As you've undoubtedly seen me speculate - I do sometimes wonder whether she has divorce or not.


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Originally Posted by doodler
When the words have sex, are they making little baby words?
That's German you're thinking of and the resulting words are big bouncy new words, not little at all.

DREAM!!!! Happy New Year!
Originally Posted by dream
" Certainly posed and directed to me specifically rather than a generic picture for social media and undoubtedly her kids were well aware of where the picture was being sent."

I'm confused. How did the kids know she was going to send this picture to you??
I can only presume this but since it was a Messenger message I expect it was a safe bet. She's not posted anything at all on any of her other accounts - probably keeping a low profile because she never bothered to get her STBX to sign off on her taking the kids out of the country.


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But why undoubtedly did the kids know where it was being sent? She might have taken a nice picture and sent it to some friends since she didn't want to put it on social media, and that is nice she thought of you.

2x4 coming your way....

STOP MIND READING! You make up a lot of scenarios that could be true or not but there is absolutely no way of knowing.

Take things for face value. No more, no less. It leaves things for a lot less making things up in our head that probably aren't accurate at all.

And you need to change your thinking of being secondary in a relationship. Get unused to that. Get used to being an equal, someone who wants to be with you just as much as you want to be with them. I tend to bend over backwards sometimes to make my loved one feel loved and needed and ignored my own needs. That pretty much got me no where. And please don't hate me for saying this. But you are not in a romantic relationship with CL. You are in a friendship, which is indeed a form of a relationship, and you should not be secondary in a friendship either.

You're a good guy. Treat yourself like on and someone will treat you as one right back.

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
But why undoubtedly did the kids know where it was being sent? She might have taken a nice picture and sent it to some friends since she didn't want to put it on social media, and that is nice she thought of you.

2x4 coming your way....

STOP MIND READING! You make up a lot of scenarios that could be true or not but there is absolutely no way of knowing.

Take things for face value. No more, no less. It leaves things for a lot less making things up in our head that probably aren't accurate at all.

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Totally agree with Ginger and I share dream's confusion in that you really have no idea if the kids knew the pic was directed at you. And, just because she sent it in a messenger message, doesn't mean she didn't turn around and send the exact same pic to any number of other people. Way too much mind reading in this whole scenario and I don't think it is healthy to assume that the kids know anything of you or that they are "coming around to your existence". Honestly, I doubt they know anything more of you than they know of any of her other friends, as I think this is how she sees you.

I'm glad that you recognize that I could be right in what I said. Being a gentleman and having all your teeth are HUGE bonuses, particularly here in the land of the hillbillies where folks tend to think that we are toothless, shoeless and stupid, but I digress. I also agree with what G said about getting yourself UNUSED to the thought of being second place. You deserve so much more than that, Andrew, and you know it. When you start acting "as if", I think you will find that you might discover a different caliber of women who are interested in you. Not that there is anything wrong with the caliber of those who are interested now, mind you, but to use a phrase that my daddy uses all the time "act like you been here before, kid!" You have a great deal to offer a lovely woman so quit allowing this particular woman to put you on a shelf like a toy that she takes down and plays with when it suits her fancy. YOU DESERVE MORE!


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As I will often say "I'll stop you when you're wrong" - thanks Ginger and Dawn for the whack upside the head.

I think your daddy and I would get along well Dawn.

One of the ways that my brain works is that it looks for patterns. And just like those blurry dots that suddenly coalesce into a large bill from your therapist, I do sometimes see things that aren't there. And sometimes I see things that are like another thing that I think I understand.

What her kids know or don't know, think or don't think is indeed immaterial at present. I do still think that in the summer she had specific plans that included me. But as you will all agree it doesn't matter what her plans are but rather what my own desires are. What her own plans and thoughts currently are - well - she's not told me.

I'll never be that dominant "make me a sammich" kind of guy. And yes, my ideal woman is one who has a clear vision of who she is and what she wants. I am fortunate in that I have no burning need to be coupled and I've learned an awful lot about people by watching in the real world and the more revealing anonymous world online here and elsewhere. I've read so much about bad relationships that it has made me perhaps a bit gun-shy.

And yeah - I'm bored working from home today.


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My dad is full of little words of wisdom like that, but that particular one popped into my head when I was reading your post. Another of his favorites is "if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, then baffle them with your bull sh!t". That comes into play way more often than I would care to admit in my work life. LOL

I totally get what you are saying...truly, I do. And, I don't even think there is necessarily anything wrong with you NOT being a dominant guy (which I think most of us totally could have told you without your confirming it, but you are who you are and that is great), but there is a difference in being non-dominant and being a doormat. I also get what you are saying about not feeling a burning need to feel coupled. I know it is odd, particularly coming from me when I just got engaged, but one of the reasons I am with Sparky and I said yes when he asked is that I didn't feel that burning need either, but Sparky is my person. I fell for him because of this casual ease about our relationship that makes for a very pleasant place to be, talking, laughing, sharing adventures. On our first date (which was a lunch date, for what it is worth), we just talked and laughed so easily, as if we had already known each other forever and in a way, we had known each other for a bit because we'd talked on line, through text and over the phone for nearly 2 months before we actually met in person (partially because of the stuff going on with his dad, who subsequently passed in early January and partly because of how his last relationship ended and his being gun-shy).

You like who you like. I think most of us said this to J9 too. Don't apologize for your type and how they affect you....that is all you. But, just be aware that a woman can be that dominant type you appreciate without being a user and toying with someone. We've all had our share of bad relationships or we wouldn't be here, quite frankly, and there are lots of horror stories out there. I like to think that I'm the strong, independent type of woman you say you are attracted to but when I love someone, I also like to take care of that person and do things for them, spoil them, just like I like them to do for me. It's a mutual thing, in my mind.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said her plans are irrelevant and it is really about what you want, need, desire. I'm sure she's a great lady, based on your description, but my point all along (and likely the point of others as well, though I don't want to speak for anyone else) has been that she's not capable of giving you more than friendship and she continues to show you that through her actions. So, stop worrying with her, mind reading her and move on along. She may circle back and take you down off the shelf again, but you deserve to be permanently off the shelf.


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Well - It's Saturday. Time for another long rambly diary entry.

Busy weekend this weekend. The first weekend of the month is when I usually do my full clean of the house and it needs it. 20S is going to be moving her excess furniture and probably a bit other stuff in on Sunday so I had to clear the brush out of the utility trailer for her boyfriend to haul. While I have the trailer empty I figured I'd pick up a sheet of 3/4" plywood to build some blanket boxes. I have plans from years ago from the Canadian Plywood Association that do one big and one small box out of one sheet. When my son was little we did a father/son build and made one for him as a toy box which he still has in his closet packed with childhood things. As those who are playing the home game may recall my ex was a bit of a hoarder. Not as bad as some, but there certainly were piles of whatever all over along with far too much "stuff". As a birthday present I made her a set of these boxes. I think she was slightly offended (whatever) but she did fill them and they certainly left with her.

The spare blankets I currently store in an unused closet and they are getting a bit musty. So I'll build some new boxes. I think I have some cedar veneer around that I may use and store the blankets.

Speaking of 20S - I did meet her boyfriend a bit earlier in the week when they stopped by. I must say that I don't like the kid. My general impression of him from the hundreds of pictures 20S posted for a while and confirmed when meeting him was "greasy". I do worry a bit out 20S with him. She was over the moon, moved half way across the province to move in with him, posted hundreds of pictures to Instagram about how much in love she was and then sometime in the summer if I recall, she messaged me that she was spending the day drinking and crying. I didn't ask why, told her that if she needed a temporary place to crash that we had room which she appreciated but didn't take me up on. Ever since then - while they are still together and are presumably a couple, there is no "love of my life" or any other sorts of stuff and they were acting more like room-mates when they were here. I'm presuming that he was cheating on her and that she like many looks at sunk costs and is making the best of things.

One thing that threw me though was as they were leaving I got my big hug as usual and 20S whispered an ILY in to my ear. I'm presuming she meant in an "uncle" sort of way but it did startle me - she's never said that before. And yes - keeping my distance. Despite the fact that I like her and she is very cute and curvy, she's also my son's best friend and more trouble than 9 miles of bad road.

Speaking of the Uncle things there was a funny bit in a Huffington Post article "Facebook Dating Is Now Active In Canada". In it is the quote "The company wants to avoid accidentally suggesting people date their uncle" - which gave me serious giggles. I'd thought of sharing that with CL where by some counts I am her uncle but didn't. I think all here who know my story would find that funny too though.

Nothing new from CL. As far as I know she and her kids are still at Disney or probably are on their way back this weekend. She did actually do a social media post on Friday - a blurry picture of her and her daughter tagged as at Disney. So - if she doesn't have the right forms to take her kids out of the country some things may hit the fan for her or perhaps not. If anything does hit the fan it won't until long after she's back.

No clue if she'll try to contact me when she gets back. She knows my schedule. I'm going to work on not reaching out to her. There are a bunch of warning flags that I'm trying to pay attention to. She did have a huge amount on her plate personally, at church and at work leading up to this trip. I believe she was intending on clearing out her schedule in the new year. I do like her and consider her a friend. I'm really uncertain on if I want anything more from her.

In other lady type news, I'd sent a couple of messages to the Gift Shop Lady to help her with her ask about her business Facebook page. It was still "broken" when I checked on Friday and so I sent her info on an alternate work-around. No response. But when I got home last night, there was a message on her business page that there was a death in her family. Perhaps one of her parents. Her mother has MS and her dad dementia and she's been helping care for them. Like all my neighbours I expressed condolences. As a one-person business she did post that she's going to be open today if she can manage it but close at the start of next week. I was already planning on making a pot of butternut squash soup so I may take a dish of that and some fresh biscuits over to her this afternoon. The thing that any neighbour would do. Since it's vegetarian I don't have to worry about dietary restrictions.

I've gotten progressively more worried about my health lately. Being unsupervised makes it easy to just ignore things. On bomb-day I was about 270lbs although most people would have thought around 220. I have very dense bones and carried it well. Dressing well helps too. After, I dropped down briefly to an actual 220 where my SIL2 - a personal trainer - took me aside and told me bluntly to stop losing weight. I went back up to 235 where I hovered for a couple of years until this fall when it started to increase. The scale on New Years day told me 250 - up 5 lbs from pre-holiday. The new pants I bought a couple of months ago don't fit comfortably so I'm down to a couple of larger pairs.

Even though I have a home machine, I stopped checking my blood pressure about a year or so ago. My meds were changed this past summer to even the dosage out through the day and I checked a few times then and it was a bit high. I take my meds in the evening as my ex had the opinion that most heart attacks happen in the morning and that gave me the best protection. There was significant variance between morning and evening readings.

When I was in to the dentist they take my blood pressure as part of a general wellness check. Last year's appointment, the number was high but not too bad. This time it was scary high. Systolic in the 190s. Part of that was undoubtedly stress but most of that is just plain bad news. On my home machine that evening, under ideal conditions it was 163/89. This morning 161/74

Not being a doctor I think that I can reasonably posit that much of the issue is the extra weight that I'm carrying around. That I can do something about. One good thing about the LBS diet is that I know exactly how I can eat to lose weight but also stay healthy. So I'm doing my best to shift back to how I was eating in late 2016. Cutting back on the booze (which there was way too much of over Christmas and leading up to it) is a big part of the plan. I need to add some more regular exercise. The house cleaning and my regular walk should do for this weekend but I need to get on the exercise bike or out for more walks mid-week.

I've been "good" all year thus far wink and am down a couple of pounds but that may well be just past accumulations working their way through. I was feeling quite bloated previously. In part because the cats are waking me up I've not been sleeping all that well so need to work on that.

Not that this is a medical forum (those medical people put away your stethoscopes and pads) but in the summer and again now I have had a weird left arm pain that worried me. "Of course" Dr. Google tells me that I'm deathly ill. It starts out as a joint pain making me think first that I had a rotator cuff issue. Over time it works it's way down my arm as weakness / muscle pain combined with some numbness. And no - I have angina and this isn't combined with any of those symptoms. This time I've found that aspirin gets the pain to move down my arm and fade so that helps with sleep.

That is "of course" a symptom of a heart attack and I've been told I had one in my early 40s. I was also worried when I was at the dentist as I seemed to have trouble putting words together - yes a stroke sign - but that may also have been me being out of practice.

The plan is to closely monitor my blood pressure again (I have a spreadsheet), work on losing weight and see how it goes. I'm confident I can get back down to 235 within the month as I was there this past summer and if my blood pressure is still high then go back to the doctor to see about getting the meds adusted.

As a side note - I had my colonoscopy done this past summer which would have involved some very serious monitoring of my vitals and there was no issue mentioned then. So if I can get back to that weight - very achievable - I may well be fine.

This is one of the parts of being single that I don't like. My ex usually wasn't all that sympathetic when I was ill but she was "there" at least and I felt that I was accountable to her. Now it's just me. S24 and I have actually talked about what to do if something happens to me and he'd be fine - ending up with a free house to live in as his part of the insurance would pay everything off and then some.

A minor bit of news from ex-wife land. On Friday nights I pick up (now less) beer on the way home and that route takes me by her apartment more or less. Unusually for a Friday night she was there and while I didn't look carefully it may well have been her guy's pickup there as well. I think we can assume it was. It is a fairly nice apartment but he's got a reasonably nice house which I'm sure she would prefer to move in to. On the other hand they may have settled in to the "together but apart" life that many mature people seem to like. I can't see it being her preference but then again I'm not an expert on her any more.

Well - undoubtedly there is more I can ramble on about - I miss someone to talk to - but time for me to shower and get my day moving.

Have a great weekend all.


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Please take care of your health, Andrew. Speak with a doctor and for the love of all things bright and beautiful, STOP relying on Dr. Google. I think he’s a quack! wink

Keeping a distance from 20s seems smart. But then again, you’re a smart man. The uncle thing is funny. That made me laugh.


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I agree w/Dawn...see a professional doctor...don't rely on the internet to give you a diagnosis! Good health is most important. Cut down on the alcohol, salt, white stuff, i.e., potatoes, bread, pasta. Also, any pain that you have may have can elevate the blood pressure. Work out more and if you don't like to do that, then take up walking.


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Andrew - Go see a doctor.

You and I live in Canada, we have access to free healthcare. Come on, you have pain, and you are ignoring it. Ya ya ya, it’s probably nothing - Good! Get proof.

Listen man, you have pain, and you just rub dirt on it and say it will be fine - that is classic denial. It’s going to be something, find out what it is.

Hey, I get it. I would be scared of a diagnosis and maybe finding something troublesome. If there is a problem, diagnosis or not, it is still there, a lot better to know.

If you are still “thinking” that you don’t need to go, recognize the feeling, the fear. Let go of it. You know seeing a doctor is the right decision - it will tell you what is going on, it is free - there is no reason not to go.

I really hope you’re listening.

Tell you what, when you are told nothing is the matter, come back and post - DnJ, you bonehead, I wasted a day at the doctor’s for nothing!

I’d love to read that.

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Andrew! I am going to yell at you. When was the last time you saw a doctor?! If you are on blood pressure meds, you need to be monitored.

Like it was said, you have free healthcare, so take advantage. That is high blood pressure, especially for someone being on meds.

When it comes to your health, you don't need a wife to be accountable to. You shouldn't be accountable to anyone but yourself for your own health.

I work in an acute inpatient rehab with lots of stroke patients. Strokes can be absolutely devastating. They don't quite kill you right away. They debilitate you in horrible ways.

Please include in your plan to see a doctor.

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Just to reassure everyone - I ain't dead at present.

Thanks for the suggestion DnJ - Sadly even though it's fairly warm here the only dirt I can reasonably find to rub on my arm is potting soil. Does that work?

To answer your question Ginger1 - I saw my doctor in the summer around when I had my colonoscopy. No concerns were indicated at that time. But I have put on 15 lbs fairly rapidly since then.

job - as far as my diet goes, I rarely have processed foods of any sort, never add salt unless the recipe calls for it as part of a chemical reaction, and try to avoid carbs of most sorts.

I have a nice pot of butternut squash soup on the stove now - didn't get to it yesterday as by the time I got the bathrooms scrubbed it was after 5:00pm. And so didn't get it over to GSL either. I hope she's doing OK.

20S and her crew have just dropped off the first load of stuff - my heavens that girl has a lot of crap. And a lot of it is just that - crap - no big surprise. It's the stuff she abandoned in her shared apartment the next town over before she moved across the province. There is a much larger amount of stuff than she led me to believe. They just left in fact after emptying the trailer, truck and a friend's car to get another load. It sounds like it will be here for some time. She did say that she and her boyfriend are buying a house this year so hopefully it will all leave then. There is a lot of stuff that came that is essentially trash at least in my mind. Broken cheap furniture for example.

My own take is that if she's been able to live without this stuff for the better part of a year, why does she need it? Then again, similar questions could have been made about my ex-wife and her stuff.

I'm letting the young people do the heavy carrying. S24 is annoyed that I suggested that we stage a bunch of the stuff in the front porch but he and 20S's boyfriend have carried the heaviest stuff upstairs already.

Thanks for the input everyone on my health concerns. I wouldn't have mentioned it if it hasn't been something that I've been concerned about as well.

So - my blood pressure has been going down each day now as I've been monitoring it again. It still has a ways to go.

One concern that I have is that if I go in to the doctor that since there is nothing obviously wrong with my arm that they'll just ignore it or give me pain meds. If it is like what I had in the summer, it does go away in a couple of weeks. At that time I thought it might be referred pain as my neck was quite stiff and sore then too. Non specific pain is presumably incredibly hard to diagnose.

I'd rather avoid having my blood pressure meds increased. Getting back to daily monitoring, decreasing my weight, increasing my activity level are things that I am going to do. Pre bomb-day at my higher weight I was on heavier doses of meds but then when I lost all that weight my blood pressure got too low and I was having dizzy spells.

I'm going to keep a close eye on things for the next week. If I don't continue to make progress I promise that I'll make an appointment with my GP by the end of next week.


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135/68 this morning.


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Much better.


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So you can go to see the doctor then. Go to the doctor.


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NOw I am going to ask you why the heck 20S is storing her CRAP in your home.

have some boundaries with this, Andrew. the actual CRAP she doesn't need doesn't stay, and she's got a time limit on her other stuff.
it's good to do a nice deed, and you have certainly done overly nice above and beyond deeds for her, but don't get taken advantage of. Be nice, but have boundaries.

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
There is a much larger amount of stuff than she led me to believe. They just left in fact after emptying the trailer, truck and a friend's car to get another load. It sounds like it will be here for some time.


You should go through her stuff. If she has some pumps, nice outfits, and feather boas, then you're all set for a wild night on the town. (Or, in your case, a wild night on the village.) If you could somehow acquire a purple Scion for short-term use, then you'd have everything required to party like it's drag night in Key West. (BTW, little dresses are best worn commando style.)

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
NOw I am going to ask you why the heck 20S is storing her CRAP in your home.

have some boundaries with this, Andrew. the actual CRAP she doesn't need doesn't stay, and she's got a time limit on her other stuff.
it's good to do a nice deed, and you have certainly done overly nice above and beyond deeds for her, but don't get taken advantage of. Be nice, but have boundaries.
The stuff will be going in the summer. In the mean-time I have some furniture I can use. And yes - I am too nice and accommodating. She's supposedly stopping by the house today to sort through some of it. I have a big 4 bedroom house with empty rooms in it. If I can help a friend at no cost to myself - it's a good thing.

Originally Posted by doodler
You should go through her stuff. If she has some pumps, nice outfits, and feather boas, then you're all set for a wild night on the town. (Or, in your case, a wild night on the village.) If you could somehow acquire a purple Scion for short-term use, then you'd have everything required to party like it's drag night in Key West. (BTW, little dresses are best worn commando style.)
She did comment that she did have a stiletto phase and she's a big curvy girl so her stuff might fit despite my own curves being located differently. I believe I know where I can find a purple Scion as well. Keep in mind though that a "wild night" in my village is usually the Lions Club's pork and kraut dinner after the craft show. And that's not until the fall.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
pork and kraut


Is that the German version of hide the salami?

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Originally Posted by doodler
Originally Posted by AndrewP
pork and kraut
Is that the German version of hide the salami?

And on that note - it's time for a new thread it would seem.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2831587&#Post2831587

More rambling nonsense and quotes from books that haven't given me permission. Try not to call the authorities on me.


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