Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 11 of 11 1 2 9 10 11
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 879
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 879
I never said you caused her communication issues, just that your current approach does not seem likely to encourage more open communication.

If she had said she wanted to go to church to avoid being home alone with you on Sunday, how would you really have reacted?

Perhaps because this is such a big issue in your marriage, you also seem to have little tolerance for normal levels of social deflection. (Like her saying, "We'll see" or "Maybe later.")


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by RR17

It was very controlling. First, let me say that I didn't start the whole conversation. I was asked, "what is that look." Meaning what are you thinking. I shared my honest thoughts. I was ridiculed for having these thoughts. The most ridiculous fantasy thoughts.


I appreciate the extra info but I'm still not clear. It sounds like she asked what you were thinking and you told her about some sexual fantasy, and she rejected it and it made you mad and you retaliated by telling her she can't go to church. Am I reading that correctly? Seems like you're leaving some huge gaps and expecting us to fill them, which is fine but I can't help but wonder if that communication style (which can lead to a LOT of misunderstanding) extends to your communications with your W. Also that sounds very much like a NMMNG "covert contract".

Quote
I stood up to her. I stuck my foot down. (yes, controlling behavior). Also very much a 180 as I have never demanded she not go anywhere before.


But that's not a good 180!!!!! 180 doesn't mean "do bad behavior that I didn't do before"!

Quote
At that point, she got mad and finally admitted that I was correct and why she was leaving.


That's great that she admitted to that part of it, I just think you went about it the wrong way.

Quote
There was no pressure to have sex. No pressure to have anything. I was in bed enjoying coffee.


If the "most ridiculous fantasy thoughts" you expressed to her were sexual in nature, then do you think it's fair to suggest that she may have read your expectations into it? If so then that IS pressure. That may not have been your intent, but try and see it from her perspective.

Quote
Stander, I hope that you realize that I am in no way justifying my behavior, simply clarifying.


And I hope you understand we are not trying to attack you, we are trying to help you see your actions from an outside perspective. Many of the corrections we make to people here are not because they are INTENTIONALLY doing something wrong, most of the time is is completely accidental. It's hard for any of us to see things from someone else's perspective. We are wrapped up in what is happening to us and trying to justify our actions to ourselves, often when they shouldn't be justified. That's part of the value of these forums is you can get an impartial 3rd party view on your interactions with your spouse. Sometimes it stings, but growth does come with growing pains!

Quote
I remember during the honeymoon phase of our courtship, asking her what she was thinking and she always said "nothing". Make it something negative and you will only hear it during an emotional outbreak.


Well that often comes as a result of asking "what is wrong" or "why are you acting like that" or other words that put someone on the defensive. Often that will warrant a "nothing" response, whereas if you ask "how are you feeling today?" you'll open the door to her sharing her feelings. We often treat feelings like they are right or wrong but they are not, they are ALL valid. Listen and validate.



Last edited by Cadet; 11/12/18 09:38 PM. Reason: Start a new thread message

Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
R
RR17 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
Quote
I appreciate the extra info but I'm still not clear. It sounds like she asked what you were thinking and you told her about some sexual fantasy, and she rejected it and it made you mad and you retaliated by telling her she can't go to church. Am I reading that correctly? Seems like you're leaving some huge gaps and expecting us to fill them, which is fine but I can't help but wonder if that communication style (which can lead to a LOT of misunderstanding) extends to your communications with your W. Also that sounds very much like a NMMNG "covert contract".


Dang, I did a really poor job of explaining. There was never any discussion of sex, yesterday. None. W asked what that look is for. I said that I thought she was going to this new church with her friend to avoid being alone here with me. That's it.

She ridiculed that idea. Acting as if it was the most ridiculous idea and furthest from the truth.

Once I told her that I didn't want her to go, she admitted to not wanting to be there and be possibly approached about either sex or an R discussion. The very things that I told her that I was thinking were her motivation to go.

Because the home was empty and W wasn't usually going anywhere. In the past, I had tried to initiate sex. No undue pressure. Just an attempt to initiate that then lead to an R talk in the past.

Hope this is more clear.

BTW, what is a "NMMNG "covert contract"?


M 53 W 54, M since 98
D15, D19
8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM
until 10/14
7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR
12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 921
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 921
Originally Posted by RR17
Because the home was empty and W wasn't usually going anywhere. In the past, I had tried to initiate sex. No undue pressure. Just an attempt to initiate that then lead to an R talk in the past.


This is pressure. Whether you intended to initiate intimacy or not this time is not important. You have done it in the past and it is what she was expecting you to do that day.

Look at it from her side ...

1. She expects you to initiate intimacy
2. She does not want to be intimate
3. In the past when she has rejected your advances it has led to R talks
4. She does not want to have an R talk.
3. She does not want to hurt your feelings so she gives you a non committal response

You call her on it, it leads to her being defensive, and "ridiculing" you, and finally admitting that she did not want to have sex with you. You then tell her you don't want to go "Because I said so".

Where exactly in this interaction did you score a win?


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 19
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 19
Well RR, just take what happened as a bump on the long road both of you both have taken. There have been some previous and donīt know how many in the future.

You have been a patient man RR, You love your W and you are commited to your MR. Keep getting the possitive outcome of your R with W. Next Sunday do a 180 and you get out on the morning. Let time be the pressure valve: keep it open.

Patience RR


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
R
RR17 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
Originally Posted by Rose888
I never said you caused her communication issues, just that your current approach does not seem likely to encourage more open communication.

If she had said she wanted to go to church to avoid being home alone with you on Sunday, how would you really have reacted?

Perhaps because this is such a big issue in your marriage, you also seem to have little tolerance for normal levels of social deflection. (Like her saying, "We'll see" or "Maybe later.")


If she had said she wanted to go to church to avoid being home alone with you on Sunday, how would you really have reacted?

I would have respected and accepted this response.

All I ever wanted was honest communication.

Originally Posted by FlySolo
Originally Posted by RR17
Because the home was empty and W wasn't usually going anywhere. In the past, I had tried to initiate sex. No undue pressure. Just an attempt to initiate that then lead to an R talk in the past.


This is pressure. Whether you intended to initiate intimacy or not this time is not important. You have done it in the past and it is what she was expecting you to do that day.

Look at it from her side ...

1. She expects you to initiate intimacy
2. She does not want to be intimate
3. In the past when she has rejected your advances it has led to R talks
4. She does not want to have an R talk.
3. She does not want to hurt your feelings so she gives you a non committal response

You call her on it, it leads to her being defensive, and "ridiculing" you, and finally admitting that she did not want to have sex with you. You then tell her you don't want to go "Because I said so".

Where exactly in this interaction did you score a win?


Where did I score a win? I had no intentions of scoring a win. I did get validation that my ridiculous assumption was not so ridiculous, but I knew that. Who ever wins in these interactions?

Quote
3. She does not want to hurt your feelings so she gives you a non committal response


This is correct. Only it is often correct. Too often and not just with me. Whatever the motive, it is not honest.


M 53 W 54, M since 98
D15, D19
8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM
until 10/14
7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR
12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Start a new thread please


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
R
RR17 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
Originally Posted by neffer
Well RR, just take what happened as a bump on the long road both of you both have taken. There have been some previous and donīt know how many in the future.

You have been a patient man RR, You love your W and you are commited to your MR. Keep getting the possitive outcome of your R with W. Next Sunday do a 180 and you get out on the morning. Let time be the pressure valve: keep it open.

Patience RR

Thanks neffer. And thank you Rose888, AnotherStander, DejaVu6 and FlySolo. I do appreciate your input.

These things happen and at least for me, it takes some time and feedback to understand what exactly did just happen. As for winners and losers? I'm interested in moving toward a healthy R.

It sometimes gets frustrating when although I have tried my best to paint an accurate unbiased picture of the turn of events and still my eloquence fails me.

As for any motive? Well, that would assume that it was premeditated. It was not.

As I read some of these responses I sometimes cringe. You're correct, she didn't want to have sex. I would have no way of knowing this without initiating. All signals seemed Green. Guess what? I don't like to get rejected either. Yes, it was pressure. If she had said yes, would it still seem like pressure? Back before BD, this time of the week was a favorable time to initiate. Hindsight's 20/20. Every other week I am serving at our church. This time? I did nothing except supposedly have a look, which W could never have seen across the dim room and she didn't have her glasses on anyway. Why did I say "Because I said so"? Because I didn't have a good reason. I hadn't planned this out. I was pissed about the ridicule and wanted, no I felt I deserved a more honest answer.

I will say that there was a win. The win being that we have moved on fairly rapidly. W came home last night and started telling me that the heat in her old building isn't working and rain leaks into the closet blah blah blah... I stopped what I was doing. Which was composing a response on this DB forum. lol. I gave her my full attention.
She didn't notice my haircut, but what's new? We watched an hour of classic TV and went to our respective bedrooms.

All in all, this is positive progress. In the past, W would have held onto her position (that I was ridiculous for thinking..) regardless of the fact that she had admitted it, and would have harbored resent for at least a day or two. She would have never listened to my position (that all I wanted was honest communication) without judgment. Yet now she did.

Making sausage and DBing isn't pretty but can be well worth it.


M 53 W 54, M since 98
D15, D19
8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM
until 10/14
7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR
12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 19
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 19
We know RR, we know.

Lets go to the new thread.


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
R
RR17 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 816

Last edited by Cadet; 11/13/18 04:40 PM. Reason: Links

M 53 W 54, M since 98
D15, D19
8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM
until 10/14
7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR
12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.

Page 11 of 11 1 2 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard