Long time lurker, finally signed up. Desperately trying to save my marriage and family.
Back story:
I met my wife when I was 16. We are both 38 now. We had our first child at 18, married in 2001. We have three kids. D19 D16 and B11. We were a young couple and we both came from broken homes where the parents did not know how to communicate. We started at zero. Started off poor. Moved out at 18 and since then we have both worked ourselves into good careers and carved out a very nice life for our kids. We have been the standard the rest of the family holds themselves to.
That being said, unfortunately since we both had no idea how to communicate and we were essentially self taught on marriage and raising kids, our marriage did have lots of ups and downs. Mostly just arguments and conflict about stuff we were to be discussing and compromising on. My wife is very motivated.
Over the years I myself made a couple of bad choices. I did not cheat, but I did hurt my wife and I take full responsibility for that. However, in regards to the communication issues, conflict etc, I will only take responsibility for my part.
Late 2015 my wife had a talk with me about an issue we had, wherein she advised that she loved me and that she wanted to change to better myself and that our marriage would be better if I made the necessary changes. I did exactly that. I did not do it for her, but I was aware that I needed to mature emotionally so that I could be a better person for my family.
Since the beginning of 2016 I have been making a significant effort to be a better person, better communication etc. It was working very well and my relationship with my wife and kids was getting stronger. Unfortunately, wife still had issues with communication. Late 2017 my wife's company was bought out by another company. This afforded her a promotion. Unfortunately, a long with this promotion came a new manager for her. This man is 20 years her senior.
My wife's travel picked up from once or twice a month to about 50%. At first she was constantly in contact with me, always checking up, talking to the kids etc. Early 2018 I noticed that her new manager started taking her to dinner every single night they were out. A lot of the time in groups and the rest just them. This really bothered me. Unfortunately this made me very insecure. I started suspecting an EA about March 2018. Yet the wife was still checking in with me etc. But when she was at home she was distant. May 2018 she started with the red flags. Different grooming, started wearing sexier clothing etc.
Unfortunately, I started asking her if she was having an affair. At this time we were still intimate often and were getting along fairly well. So I believe it was an EA still. I went to the Philippines for a month in June 2018. When I came back she had a belly button ring and had again groomed herself differently. My wife is 5ft 10in. She is absolutely gorgeous. Prior to my trip I had started working on my fitness and lost about 50lbs before I got back from my trip.
When I got back, although we were still intimate, my wife's travel had picked up to about 75%. Same behaviors with dining out constantly. But she always kept me in the loop. Called me when she was at hotel. Would FB video me before bed etc.
Beginning of August 2018 she changed completely. We weren't intimate for a month. I assumed she had started a PA. But when questioned she would deny. I tried to approach with open arms for the truth. With forgiveness. Nothing worked. She did start being intimate with me finally but she just laid there, no emotion. I knew something was up badly. Shortly after I heard the "I love you but I'm not in love with you". That hurt.
Unfortunately I had not yet found this site so I kept asking her. About 7 weeks ago she stopped intimacy completely. She went out of town and was acting very odd. No more calling at night, staying out late and not answering her phone. I asked where she was staying and she told me. Called the hotel and she wasn't there. Instead of just doing g further investigation I confronted her. She denied and when she got home, about 6 weeks ago she moved into my daughter's room. That's when I found this site. She wouldn't admit to an A and kept telling me she needed space and maybe she would come back to me if I showed her change. I have changed a lot. I listen, don't attack, no complaining etc. I worked hard on myself.
I continued to ask of she was having an A with her manager. She denied. Her work got bought out again and he was no longer her manager. He moved back to California with his wife and two kids. He also has older kids with grandchildren.
She immediately scheduled "business" trips to California. I couldn't ignore it any longer so I started investigating. I found that she had booked a room about 5 minutes from this guy's house. She booked the room with two adults.
She still denied when I asked to please let me know. I decided to hire a PA and on the nights of October 31st and November 1st, I got confirmation of exactly what I suspected.
Confronted her with proof on November 2nd. She denied and denied. They tried to get some story together saying he was sick. So she stayed with him for a while and went to another hotel. I had to show some of what I have. Through the weekend she still denied. I had to let her listen to a recording of herself that I got ahold of, speaking with him, talking dirty and saying she loves him.
This absolutely devastated me. I am deeply in love with my wife. Now shes like a zombie roaming around the house. Complete full blown WW. I have tried to follow the steps on this site. I have had a couple of conversations with her that end up in blaming me. Typical behavior. Unfortunately during this last year WW has completely ignored the children. Since she has been emotionally and physically gone for them they no longer trust her. They rely on me 100% for them and our relationship is very strong.
Prior to confrontation I spoke with several attorneys. I reside in a no fault state. But since I have proof of an affair, can file under adultery as fault. That wont have anything to do with assets. But would help with custody.
Unfortunately the kids know. They noticed the huge changes in her and the older ones aren't stupid. I had just told them I need to talk on CD and they knew I must have confirmed something because they asked. I did not tell them yes or no.
Over the past week my wife has just sat in her room on her phone. I have been GAL very well. But shes in la la land badly. Bad affair fog. I told her that if she continues to travel for no reason that I am done. I can tell she wants her cake and to est it too. She was afraid that I was going to report this to her work and the man's wife. She could get fired for integrity reasons. The old me would have went nuclear. I did not. I did get angry when. she blamed me. But beyond that I told her that I don't want a divorce. She wants a divorce but wont fo it because the kids want to live with me. 16 year olds opinion would be deciding factor and she told me along with my son that they don't want to live with her. Unfortunately her WW syndrome is making her test them like she does me. Always blaming them for complaining about her, guilting her about working etc.
WW tried to tell D16 that I was paranoid and had her followed because I thought she was having an A. Daughter asked her to be honest and she lied. D16 pissed off even more now. D16 told mom that if there is divorce, D16 and S11 want to live with me. WW trying to get me to get divorce mediator. I told her that's not what I want. Told her that if that is what she wants she can leave. Bunch of excuses why she wont move out.
If we D I will get alimony, child support and a ton of her assets as she makes much more than I do. WW now wont talk at all. I have been trying to detach. I have written her a few letters that just explain to her that I am no longer pursuing her, that I am no longer allowing her decisions to affect my emotions. I will not take blame and just my perspective on the kids and everything. No threats or pleading. Just being honest on how her actions have affected the kids. What she has done to me etc. I have written two letters. Simply because she is ignoring the hell out of the kids.
Went to an MC who typically said "well she doesn't live you go get a D". No more MC.
Wife is currently traveling to see a friend in Dallas and then to see her father. My mom and dad know. Nobody else. Again this floored me. I am trying so hard to detach. Hard to stay strong. Show no emotions. But I have broken down in my room quite a few times. This is affecting me badly and making it hard to GAL.
I have nearly hit goal weight so I have been going to the gym more, hanging with friends more etc. I have been taking my kids to dinner and spending a ton of time with them. I know that it's just after CD still.
The biggest issue I need help with right now is that my wife is still in contact with OM. She hides in the bathroom. I told her that her remaining in contact in this home is disrespectful. We aren't fighting. She may think I'm going to report her to her work but I'm not. I'm not vindictive. Just hurt badly.
Right now she has zero consequences and will not leave. She has not scheduled another trip yet. Thank God he lives in another state. I want her to see consequences. I want to move out with my kids since she wont leave. But that would probably require me get an attorney on retainer. But she will not move out. Plus if I move out I'm sure she will immediately go travel.
Should I move out and take the kids now? And just hope she doesn't file or freak out if I do? She told D16 she did not want a custody battle. If I do move out should I only do it if she schedules a trip for work? In order for us to reconcile she would have to quit. That's the only way she would have no contact with this man.
I have never been so sad in my life. I look great for only me now. Thanks everyone.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
To add to this. I am fully prepared to accept that if I move out with the kids that she may file for D. But, she is terrified that our entire family will find out she had an A. She has a perfect and highly regarded reputation with all of our family and friends.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Sadly ST... I’m not sure what I would do if I were you. I know how you feel though. It hurts like hell to feel so strongly about someone and have them turn away. I think you can’t worry what she will do and you need to do what is best for you right now. I look great for only me now too. But that is just for now. No one knows what the future will bring. Focus on you and the kids. Easier said than done, I know. My H moved out before I even knew what was happening so I didn’t have to face anything like this. Perhaps some of the people on here who have will have some good advice. Sorry this is happening to you and your family.
Yes I am absolutely devastated. I knew this would happen. I felt it. I have great intuition. I knew this man was pursuing her madly. Plus she likes to drink and I know that the first time they started PA she was probably drunk. But then she went full tilt into it. I know she is conflicted because I tried to ask when she first initiated PA and she said shes not ready to talk about that. I have had some normal starting conversations where she seems to understand how badly she messed up. The crappy thing is that my wife has stubborn pride. She has never made a mistake of this magnitude. She has always been a great woman and great mom and this A made her regress back into what feels like a teenager on strike.
Should I completely ignore her? Or is it ok to be cordial and send texts for good morning and goodnight? I don't want to push her further away but shes gotta face the music. There are three options I believe will happen if I move out and take the kids. The worst would be she hits the fan and goes on a legal warpath, the second is that she simply doesn't care and does nothing and the third is that she gets a good jolt on the consequences. I may call another attorney just to see what I have to do. One good thing is that I get unlimited attorney hours as a benefit from my work. Up to $300/hr. So I have legal protection.
I did buy the DR book as well. She was digging through my room looking for leverage and saw it. I honestly don't know what she would find. She thinks my past mistakes that everyone knows about would make me look bad. I have no concern with looking bad because everyone in my life sees who I am now. Everyone but her. I am going to IC Wednesday. I may need to see the doctor as well. I am having really bad nightmares and insomnia. I know she has insomnia. She is right above me. At least I'm in the MBR.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I just read your story. You seem to know the lingo around here, and I imagine you even predict some of the advice you will get. Your WW definitely has the WW script done pat.
I think you need to read the validation links. You need to avoid getting sucked into arguments with her and this will help. Consequences are tough when divorce is not on the table. But you do need to create consequences for her.
I would make myself scarce if I were in your shoes. GAL when she is home. You can do that with and/or without the kids.
Has your W said she wants a divorce? I didn't see that mentioned.
You need to stop the pressure. You don't seem to be too bad on pressuring her, but it seems like you have pressured some. MWD lists a bunch of different forms of pressure in the Divorce Remedy book.
As for moving out, only you can decide that. You'd have to talk to an attorney or two first. I'm of the opinion that the person who wants out should get out. Anyways, sorry you are here. I've been where you are, it started earlier this year for me. I'll tell you that the best thing for me and my situation was stopping all pursuit and GAL. It makes you feel better, it makes the WAS wonder.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
don't completely ignore her. I don't think you're there yet. But definitely stop with the loving husband type of texts. Good mornings, how are yous, and I miss you's are for loving wives - not cheating wives.
Don't let her see the DR book and clear your browsing history. I've always posted from an incognito window personally.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
...Long time lurker, finally signed up. Desperately trying to save my marriage and family....
Welcome. Sorry you find yourself in this sitch.
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The biggest issue I need help with right now is that my wife is still in contact with OM. She hides in the bathroom. I told her that her remaining in contact in this home is disrespectful.
What is the rest of your boundary? What action will you take if she continues?
third is that she gets a good jolt on the consequences
This is what you want to happen. All at once. The quicker the better. Collect all you options. Think. Make a decision. take action.
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I may call another attorney just to see what I have to do. One good thing is that I get unlimited attorney hours as a benefit from my work. Up to $300/hr. So I have legal protection.
Get a list of quiestions and protect yourself legally. Understand your legal rights.
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I did buy the DR book as well. She was digging through my room looking for leverage and saw it.
No biggy. We recommend keeping it to yourself.
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I am going to IC Wednesday.
Good decision.
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I may need to see the doctor as well. I am having really bad nightmares and insomnia.
Yes. Meds help during this. Keeps you level headed. I had a pill that let me sleep 8 hours straight. OMG that was the best.
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At least I'm in the MBR.
Perfect.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Yes when the PA started she started saying she wanted to separate and end things but without the D word. However, now that I caught her she is saying she wants a divorce. She was gas lighting me badly. She felt that even though I had asked her to be truthful, me having pinpointed the truth without proof, about having an A with OM, that her gas lighting and him being out of state was enough to keep me feeling like I was just insecure. She was absolutely shocked that I hired a PI. She actually yelled at me "I can't live with you because I can't trust you now that you had me followed"
I responded with "wow, you actually feel that I wronged you by catching you cheating"
Prior to confrontation i had removed exactly 50% of our liquid assets into a new account under my name. My attorney advised me of that because she was threatening to take the kids, the house, our money etc. In New Mexico its 50/50 no matter what.
I get all the usual statements and questions when we do speak. "Why do you still love me?", "How do you still love me?" "This is not fixable" " we were already done" "If I were happy with a good husband I wouldn't have even thought about this."
Rewriting of history "you never helped with the kids" "you never cleaned the house" "you never ADD HERE" Yes I have a very difficult time not going into pursuit mode. I miss my wife badly. More so because we were still for the most part getting along, she would still come home and hug me, kiss me and was intimate with me, and within two months we are now here.
My boundaries I have told her were that she needs to end the affair. I told her that every day she is in this affair she hurts me and her family. I told her that if she wants a divorce she needs to do it because I don't want that. I told her that its disrespectful that she is still speaking with OM, especially in our home and that if she can't cut it off, she needs to leave.
I told her that if she doesn't prove she cut it off, or if she truly does not wish to reconcile and will not end the affair that I will be moving out with the children. For example if she just sits around and does nothing and plans business trips anywhere I will assume that he is going to be there since I know he feels she is his now. If she does that I will leave with the kids. Pretty much if she wont end it then her consequence is her family leaving her.
Legally both parents have to agree that the other parent can take the kids. Unless there is something to protect the kids from. I don't feel that this is a safe environment for them because she is not emotionally stable. She is having mood swings where she will attempt to take interest in the kids lives, but then just criticizes them for not living up to her expectations. She was quite a drinker as well but then she started to hide it. Has only been drinking before I get home or up in the room. Tossed out her huge wine cork collection.
She even threatened to get me fired if I told her job about their lack of integrity. I will try and get ahold of the same attorney tomorrow so I leave. I want to leave while she is out of town. I believe that the only consequence she would truly notice would be me moving out with the kids and then she would be in our big house alone. But I see that a lot of responses here warn not to move out.
What can I do to interrupt her "have my cake and eat it too" mentality. Another worry is that she is visiting her father. Her father had an A and abandoned them when they were little to move with his OW and to pursue his job. She literally repeated what her father did less abandoning us. But I honestly think she is considering just saying " screw it all, nobody wants me here anyway "
If I don't move out the only "consiquences" left are me telling OMs wife and reporting them to her integrity line". My poor children. They miss their momas much as I do.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Ok. Well I am going dark. The only contact was me writing a couple of letters explaining the affects of her neglecting our children and the affects on me.
I believe she is in a soulmate affair. This guy was her friend and when she was gone he took my place in fulfilling her in every way. She would rather be with him. He is married but lived away from his wife because of work. I think he may have stayed in Phoenix away from his wife. So if she has no consequences she will continue her frequent travel to be with him at all costs. The only way she will break free is by quitting and detaching from him. Right now she has no desire to do that.
I already separated accounts. Her mom is on my employee phone plan. I could cancel her line as well. I am thinking that I should move out with the kids. I know she is terrified of losing her children. She just wants her cake and to eat it.
Its unfortunate because I have truly changed and was here for her emotionally etc. She just didn't see it because of her focus on work and then her eventual EA then PA.
When I was listening to her talk to him they only spoke about work and then right into sexy talk. I heard him ask her why she decided to go ahead and have sex and she said that she just said "[censored] it". So I believe he told her his feelings a while back and she held her vows until a couple months ago.
I am very hurt. I know I will live fine without her. The truth is that it would take me a very long time to get over her. Honestly I don't think I would ever not love her and I would always have resentment and regrets. We have been together 21 years. I know deep down she cares because even when she was detaching from me she would have those few moments of clarity where she would hug me and cry etc. But she pushed herself past that once they got very involved. She would have to pick her family over her job and affair. I honestly believe she cant do that.
The sad thing is that I know this man will not leave his wife and since he is 20 years older than her, she would literally be spending her few years before menopause philandering with this man. She is terrified of turning 40. He would be 60. If they lived together she would probably realize he is way too old for her. Because he is.
My children are on board with moving out with me. They are afraid that she will fight over them and try to get them to move to Phoenix. They have no desire to move. Plus her mom lives here and her brother. Her mom would melt down if she moved out of town. She wont leave her mom.
I miss her badly. I am so used to being intimate often and it kills me to not be.
Should I consider myself single? I.E if I meet someone should I take an opportunity to fulfill my needs? I have never cheated. But I am a young man and I have desires, physical and emotional needs as well. I can't just live my life as a convenience.
Or should I GAL up to the p poo into where I just go to the gym, hang with friends and family and focus on school? The holidays are coming up. Should we attend family events all together or leave her out?
I need sleep meds badly. I can't sleep at all.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
By the way, don´t let your wife reverse the burden of proof. Don´t confront her but there´s not need of such behavior. Validate feelings, but don´t buy rats.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Set boundaries, do not leave the house. Work on yourself, stick to DB. Detach and GAL. Keep reading and posting. You have TIME. Get some lawyer´s advice, keep your info to yourself, don´t snoop anymore, you have the answers you need.
Be there for your children and move forward. And yep...you need to sleep, you need to ease your mind. You are the owner of your destiny man.
I was a WW husband sometime ago. I managed to get back home. But I needed to get back the respect for my wife before I was able to think clear. Affair fog was everywhere. Stand there, set boundaries. Your W is free to go if she wants but she can´t be into a cake eating party if she stays. And you wait fo no one man, that´s a passive attitude.
Stay strong ST!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
I think you are just reacting right now ST. I don’t think it would do you any good to try to have an A. I know how tempting it is to try to escape the pain in that way but it would only be a temporary fix and, unless you were paying for it or meeting someone on a “hook-up” site, you would potentially be bringing someone else into the picture and it could get even messier than it already is. IMO...it would likely make you feel worse, not better. Live according to your values and beliefs and work through the pain. I think that is the only way to truly move on. There are no short cuts, I’m afraid. (((HUGS)))
Hello ST. SOrry you are here, but hopefully, you can use this gift of time wisely.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I have had a couple of conversations with her that end up in blaming me.
So it sounds like theres no reason to go this route any further.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Over the past week my wife has just sat in her room on her phone. I have been GAL very well. But shes in la la land badly. Bad affair fog.
Im glad you are GAL. Im not sure what her state has to do with your GAL activities though?
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I told her that if she continues to travel for no reason that I am done.
So what does this mean, exactly?
She slept with another man how many times. And lied about it. Several times. So....now, youre saying that she can keep talking to him, sending dirty pictures, whatever. But if she goes to see him again, then you're "done"? This feels very arbitrary. If her work requires random travel, then who knows if he is also going to travel to wherever that is also. This doesnt feel like a boundary you can manage. Im not saying that you should or shouldnt file for divorce. Thats your choice. But is this boundary logical? Like this....
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Wife is currently traveling to see a friend in Dallas and then to see her father.
Is he there? Theres got to at least be a chance. So how can you maintain that boundary?
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I have written her a few letters that just explain to her that I am no longer pursuing her, that I am no longer allowing her decisions to affect my emotions. I will not take blame and just my perspective on the kids and everything. No threats or pleading. Just being honest on how her actions have affected the kids. What she has done to me etc. I have written two letters. Simply because she is ignoring the hell out of the kids.
Its funny to me that you wrote her a letter to tell her you are going to stop pursuing her.
Speak with ACTIONS not words.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
The biggest issue I need help with right now is that my wife is still in contact with OM. She hides in the bathroom. I told her that her remaining in contact in this home is disrespectful. We aren't fighting. She may think I'm going to report her to her work but I'm not. I'm not vindictive. Just hurt badly.
Incredibly disrespectful. And so what are you going to do about it? In my opinion, you let her sit in the bathroom all night doing that while you are living your life. Let her play out this fantasy in her head while you keep your focus on you and GAL and do awesome stuff with your kids.
Stop trying to control her.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Right now she has zero consequences and will not leave. She has not scheduled another trip yet. Thank God he lives in another state. I want her to see consequences.
It sounds like you want someone else to punish her. You arent willing to hurt her back, but you want her to hurt nonetheless.
How about the consequence is missing out on your awesome life. And your kids' lives. To me, the best revenge is to for you be happy and successful. Does she need to be homeless or broke or whatever as a punishment for cheating?
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Plus if I move out I'm sure she will immediately go travel.
So what?
Originally Posted by SoTorn
If I do move out should I only do it if she schedules a trip for work? In order for us to reconcile she would have to quit. That's the only way she would have no contact with this man.
I dont understand. What is the difference of one more physical visit? Shes already texting and communicating with this guy non-stop. Live your life. Once you decide you have 'had enough', then take further action. Maybe that day is today? I dont know.
ST...a lot of advice coming at you. Take the time to stop and absorb it and slow down! You mind is all over the place, don't do anything drastic. Like everyone said whether she travels or not she is still communicating and lying about 100% of what is going on. After 6 months I find the lying and arrogance just as painful as the A. But you have to become numb to it, it will take time and only through changing what you do with your life.
Follow the rules when you are around WW and more important GAL! It is hard as anything and it will not feel real but just leave the house whenever you can to get away from her. I started out just driving or window shopping, getting out and having interactions with other people. It will take time!
We all panic and don't know what to do at first. How can I ever go on with my life without this person? We were all pathetic in the beginning chasing WWs around, I did the PI thing filed for divorce then withdrew the petition. Wasted money! I have been DB'ing for three months now in hopes of R but am at a point where I can feel true detachment. I thought I was detaching before but jumped on every test WW gave me. GAL has helped tremendously, I can honestly say that if the A stopped and WW came back 100% that I am not sure what I would do.
I like having my independence now too!
H-50 W-48 T-19 M -18 S23, S14 BD - 5/9/2018 OM discovered 5/10/2018
In house sep - 8/18/2018 Rope drop 2/15/2019 R'ing since 3/15/2019
So the issue with me leaving is that it can legally impact me. It's not that I am afraid of consequences. The issue with ne trying to force her out is legal consequences for me. Those are the big multipliers.
I have to decide if me possibly losing my kids is worth me trying to take them. I am done contacting her. I don't want anyone to punish her.
I understand she needs consequences but the only consequence I have available may put me at a disadvantage legally. I don't want a divorce.
I feel she would happily sign divorce papers and drag my kids and I through the mud. I accept that it's over as it was, but I honestly cannot file. I don't believe in divorce and its against my strong morals and values.
I may change the locks. She could call the cops and they would make her leave. But we would have to repeat this over and over probably.
Another issue is that she can work from home. I can't. Me taking time away from work hurts me at work. So if I do something it may put me at a disadvantage with custody of my kids.
Unfortunately, although the choices are black and white, there are no black and white consequences for me. I could literally end up alone and without my kids. My kids want to live with me. My entire goal right now is to take care of my children and myself. If I shoot myself in the foot legally, then she will get the kids.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I understand she needs consequences but the only consequence I have available may put me at a disadvantage legally. I don't want a divorce.
Im having trouble understanding what you mean here. She needs consequences...for what? So that she will want to be with you? Sure. Basically, she needs to come to the realization that she has LOST something by engaging in this relationship with OM in order for it to end. On the other hand, just because the affair ends does not mean she ill want to be with you. So if you go tell her job, his wife, etc, it certainly could end the affair....but that doesnt mean you will become the most attractive option.
So if you dont want a divorce (which is fine), then what are your options?
- moving out? I think this isnt great. Especially if you have no way to take your kids with you - kicking her out? Im not really sure you can do that. Youd need to consult your L. But I am pretty sure she has a right to live there as your wife even if you change the locks.
so assuming neither of you is leaving, then what?
Like I said, your best bet is to treat her like a cordial houseguest. As if she is renting the room from you in an AirBNB. Stop initiating conversation. Stop pursuing her. Stop trying to control her. Focus on you and the kids.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I could literally end up alone and without my kids. My kids want to live with me. My entire goal right now is to take care of my children and myself. If I shoot myself in the foot legally, then she will get the kids.
Again, from a legal/custodial perspective, what has your lawyer advised?
we were already done" "If I were happy with a good husband I wouldn't have even thought about this."
Lol every cheating WAS says this. How could they justify their own poor choices if it weren't for what you did.
Quote
But I see that a lot of responses here warn not to move out.
In some places, it may hurt you, legally, to do so. But talk to a lawyer who will tell you if it is safe in the eye of the court to do so.
Don't worry about her visiting her father. Doesn't she know that she doesn't want to be like him in that regard?
A lot of WW's think their AP is their soulmate. Then one day, the WW ditches the AP when it gets boring or too messy or she needs money or realizes he is a loser or a smoker or drug user.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I understand she needs consequences but the only consequence I have available may put me at a disadvantage legally. I don't want a divorce.
Im having trouble understanding what you mean here. She needs consequences...for what? So that she will want to be with you? Sure. Basically, she needs to come to the realization that she has LOST something by engaging in this relationship with OM in order for it to end. On the other hand, just because the affair ends does not mean she ill want to be with you. So if you go tell her job, his wife, etc, it certainly could end the affair....but that doesnt mean you will become the most attractive option.
So if you dont want a divorce (which is fine), then what are your options?
- moving out? I think this isnt great. Especially if you have no way to take your kids with you - kicking her out? Im not really sure you can do that. Youd need to consult your L. But I am pretty sure she has a right to live there as your wife even if you change the locks.
so assuming neither of you is leaving, then what?
Like I said, your best bet is to treat her like a cordial houseguest. As if she is renting the room from you in an AirBNB. Stop initiating conversation. Stop pursuing her. Stop trying to control her. Focus on you and the kids.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I could literally end up alone and without my kids. My kids want to live with me. My entire goal right now is to take care of my children and myself. If I shoot myself in the foot legally, then she will get the kids.
Again, from a legal/custodial perspective, what has your lawyer advised?
Contact has stopped. But I don't feel like I want to just be a house guest.
Legally, it could go a few ways. If I leave and take the kids she could flip out and file an order to get them back, which puts me in a bad position. She could accept her husband and kids are gone but file for divorce. Or she could do nothing.
If I just stay here she will have her cake and eat it too. I'm not trying to punish her by giving her consequences. I just don't want to be used. I need to act on my broken boundaries but I could screw myself over legally with the kids. And leaving alone is not a good option.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
One more thing I purchased a very nice car for myself a few months back. At the time she told me to go ahead. But after she got deeper into the A she started complaining about it and telling me I need to sell it. I like my car and I take my son to the race track in it often. Should I sell the car?
We don't have financial issues BTW.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
One more thing I purchased a very nice car for myself a few months back. At the time she told me to go ahead. But after she got deeper into the A she started complaining about it and telling me I need to sell it. I like my car and I take my son to the race track in it often. Should I sell the car?
We don't have financial issues BTW.
Well if you can afford to pay her for half of it then keep it.
Desperately trying to save my marriage and family.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Should I consider myself single? I.E if I meet someone should I take an opportunity to fulfill my needs? I have never cheated. But I am a young man and I have desires, physical and emotional needs as well.
I am now confused. Which one do you want? Do you want to save your marriage or fulfill your needs?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
So the issue with me leaving is that it can legally impact me. It's not that I am afraid of consequences. The issue with ne trying to force her out is legal consequences for me. Those are the big multipliers.
I don't think I understand this. Why would staying in the house have a legal impact on you. All the advice I have received (and I have consulted three different lawyers) consistently says stay in the marital home. Leaving has bigger legal consequences. If she wants to leave, let her leave. But that is her choice.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I may change the locks. She could call the cops and they would make her leave. But we would have to repeat this over and over probably.
I don't know where you live, but here in the UK, you cannot force your spouse out unless they are a danger to yourself or the kids. It does not sound like this is the case. You also cannot change the locks. Once they have moved out they have a legal and moral obligation to not enter without an invitation or permission (though you still cannot change the locks).
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I don't want a divorce ... I feel she would happily sign divorce papers and drag my kids and I through the mud. I accept that it's over as it was, but I honestly cannot file. I don't believe in divorce and its against my strong morals and values.
Then don't file. GAL, detach and 180. Anything and everything she does should be like water off a ducks back. That is within your control. Treat her like someone you interact with at work, but don't really know. Polite, but not overly friendly. That is the consequence of her actions. She loses your emotional support. She loses the emotional impact she has on you. She starts to believe she has lost you. And believe me, losing the emotional support of someone you've relied on for years is like losing a limb. Even if she does not want you right now, it will still be like losing a part of her.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Another issue is that she can work from home. I can't. Me taking time away from work hurts me at work. So if I do something it may put me at a disadvantage with custody of my kids ... I could literally end up alone without my kids
Get legal advice on this. Get some facts. And then work your options from there.
we were already done" "If I were happy with a good husband I wouldn't have even thought about this."
Lol every cheating WAS says this. How could they justify their own poor choices if it weren't for what you did.
Quote
But I see that a lot of responses here warn not to move out.
In some places, it may hurt you, legally, to do so. But talk to a lawyer who will tell you if it is safe in the eye of the court to do so.
Don't worry about her visiting her father. Doesn't she know that she doesn't want to be like him in that regard?
A lot of WW's think their AP is their soulmate. Then one day, the WW ditches the AP when it gets boring or too messy or she needs money or realizes he is a loser or a smoker or drug user.
Yep, I just talked about this in RWAlan's thread the other day:
Desperately trying to save my marriage and family.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Should I consider myself single? I.E if I meet someone should I take an opportunity to fulfill my needs? I have never cheated. But I am a young man and I have desires, physical and emotional needs as well.
I am now confused. Which one do you want? Do you want to save your marriage or fulfill your needs?
I don't want to hookup with a woman. Please understand that my wife and I had great sex often. Even when she was in the EA. It kills me to not be intimate with her. I'm just going to avoid women for now.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
After reading your posts there are a number of points that I find puzzling:
Probably the first one and be honest to yourself... Do you love her? Why? What do you miss about your relationship?
- In all this time have you read the DR Book completely or skipped over pages looking for the short cuts. - In your relationship did you pass the leaderhip to her? - If you separated or divorced and ended up with the kids how would your life change socially and financially? - Do you really understand what GAL means? - I see your focus is Leaving the House or Not // Divorce // Kids // Consequences. What are your priorities? - Why are you forever setting ultimatums of one more .... Where do you draw the line? - Have you looked in the mirror and seen what was your part and what have you done to change?
The reasons for these questions is that many posts have been made with good advice but I have the impression you left out parts particularly about you and unless you study (not just read) the DB book and its principles, what you interpret and what they mean are 2 completely different levels.
we were already done" "If I were happy with a good husband I wouldn't have even thought about this."
Lol every cheating WAS says this. How could they justify their own poor choices if it weren't for what you did.
Quote
But I see that a lot of responses here warn not to move out.
In some places, it may hurt you, legally, to do so. But talk to a lawyer who will tell you if it is safe in the eye of the court to do so.
Don't worry about her visiting her father. Doesn't she know that she doesn't want to be like him in that regard?
A lot of WW's think their AP is their soulmate. Then one day, the WW ditches the AP when it gets boring or too messy or she needs money or realizes he is a loser or a smoker or drug user.
Yep, I just talked about this in RWAlan's thread the other day:
My wife doesn't need money lol. This guy got close because he was her manager and pushed her to further her career. All she heard at home is "why are you gone so much" while this guy was like "let's focus on you, we got this". I feel that's where they started bonding. I know the mind of a cheating man. My father was a habitual cheater. He would tell women whatever they wanted to hear and even led one along with the promise of leaving his wife. She loved him, he enjoyed being sexually fulfilled because that's where his wife lacked. I'm sure that the OM found what he needed in my wife which was a hot younger woman to have sex with and my wife believes everything he says and feels she loves him. Plus he is successful. I am successful as well so I know it's not necessarily that.
I will just GAL and stay here. I am going to make sure that I'm either always happy and doing things for and by myself. And that I will take care of my kids emotional needs. My daughters wanted on my gym membership and the wife always said no. Even though we can easily afford it. So in order to spend more time with them I added them to my membership.
So I will continue on the GAL and 180. I am not moving. I can't kick her out. If she leaves I will accept. If she is nice I will be cordial and brief. I'm going to do everything I want to do.
Anyone taken a trip by themselves while GAL? I want to go back to the Philippines and visit my friends I made there. Great people. Very hospitable and caring.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
So. Wife is back home from trip to see her dad. She is trying to make small talk but I am just short but showing her I am in a good mood. Been going out to the gym and with friends etc.
How often can I tell her that I am not in an open marriage? I want to tell her that because I know she's still talking with OM. She doesn't have much to say and neither so it at this point.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
How often can I tell her that I am not in an open marriage? I want to tell her that because I know she's still talking with OM. She doesn't have much to say and neither so it at this point.
You......are.....in an open marriage it seems. So what are you going to say to her, exactly?
Ok. I haven't actually said the boundary statement. But she got the hint. So I'll keep it to minimal contact. One word answers and being happy when I'm home and gone when shes home.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
How often can I tell her that I am not in an open marriage? I want to tell her that because I know she's still talking with OM. She doesn't have much to say and neither so it at this point.
You......are.....in an open marriage it seems. So what are you going to say to her, exactly?
Nothing. I just meant saying the boundary statement. I have said just about that so I'll leave it at that. And yes I am in an open marriage. This guy lives out of state though. Thank God.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
How often can I tell her that I am not in an open marriage? I want to tell her that because I know she's still talking with OM. She doesn't have much to say and neither so it at this point.
You......are.....in an open marriage it seems. So what are you going to say to her, exactly?
Nothing. I just meant saying the boundary statement. I have said just about that so I'll leave it at that. And yes I am in an open marriage. This guy lives out of state though. Thank God.
I mean, you should only state your boundary once. But...if you are in an open marriage, what does it mean to say that "you wont be in one"? What happens if she continues? What will you do to protect that boundary?
If she goes out of town again I am going to move out with the kids. I told her that already. Unfortunately, my wife is in full NPD mode. So she just doesn't care. I know she notices I'm doing a 180 because when I go do things with my kids or not come home she asks them where I am etc. She wont ask me.
My wife wont show remorse. I know I'm being impatient but every day I see her it hurts me badly. I am very hurt. I am trying not to slide head first into depression but i honestly dont know if i can do it. I'm seeing my IC today. I'm hurting today. This is affecting my job now. Unfortunately my current manager is an NPD woman. She has no care whatsoever what's going on with me.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
If she goes out of town again I am going to move out with the kids. I told her that already.
I think it would be VERY important to check with a lawyer first. Youve already said she travels almost 50% for her job. So....how can you expect her to not go anywhere all of a sudden? I have a hard time believing a judge would look fondly on you uprooting your children to go...where exactly?
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I know I'm being impatient but every day I see her it hurts me badly. I am very hurt.
This is very clear. I can see very clearly that you are acting in fight or flight mode. 100% emotion and adrenaline. Unfortunately, that doesnt work. You cant MATCH your WWs emotions. Instead, you should be calm, cool, collected, logical, thoughtful, etc. Take your focus off of her and onto you and your kids. What is best for the three of you. Work towards that. Dont use your pain as an excuse or a crutch. It's going to hurt regardless of where you are or where she is. And look, making any kind of big decisions while you are in this state is a terrible plan. You just dont have the capability to think rationally right now. Stop trying to DO so much and just relax, breathe, and...BE for a little while.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I am trying not to slide head first into depression but i honestly dont know if i can do it. I'm seeing my IC today. I'm hurting today.
This is an incredible place to start. What can you do about your own mood and wellbeing? What self-care can you do today?
Emotionally this is a terrible situation, but it sounds to me that legally you are actually in a very favorable situation if you play your cards right.
A disclaimer - following my advice will most likely get you divorced, but my views are that:
a. It is generally preferable to be happily divorced than miserably married, and always better to be happily divorced rather than miserably divorced.
b. You will be much more successful if you only try to control your actions that are under your control, and not try to control your WW actions or outcomes that are not under your control.
c. You really cant control the outcome of whether you stay married or get divorced, but you have a lot of control whether you are happy or miserable in either outcome.
d. The actions you need to take to be happy with whatever outcome arises are basically the same whether that outcome ends up being divorce or reconciliation, and it all boils down to putting yourself in the strongest possible position in terms of finances, custody, emotions and health.
So, to that end I have a checklist of actions I would advise you to boldly undertake if you were consulting with me: 1. Keep a journal documenting ever single parenting action you take. There should be a full entry every day, even if it is just "texted kids at their mom's"
2. Visit many different attorneys ASAP, especially any you can find with a "shark" reputation. You will get different opinions, you will also block your WW from hiring any of these sharks. Most nightmare divorces boil down to a nightmare lawyer.
3. File for divorce with primary custody and support. Get your older kids to write down their preference on living with you. Don't move out until you have papers filed, or you have your lawyer's blessing in writing. As to filing under adultery, that depends on your jurisdiction and the judge. Where I am it is a great advantage most of the time, but other places it is just extra legal costs.
4. I don't advocate full blown exposure like you see on other sites, but I strongly advise you to not keep her affair a secret from anyone. You must understand that she has been building a case against you for many months, and you need support from people who know the truth. Also, I believe you have a moral obligation to tell OM's wife.
5. Show your cards on exposing to her and OM's employer, keep this option as leverage.
6. Spend time with your kids, friends, family. Look for support. Work out to exhaustion every day using HIIT and heavy weights. Think about where you might want to live/move, change your hair style and buy new clothes that are nicer and younger than you currently wear, and smile at the check-out girl.
7. Don't send any communications to anyone that you don't want read aloud in court. And don't argue the case or any sort of logic with your WW, it will accomplish nothing and only do you harm.
8. Keep the car!
If you do all this, and do it right now while your WW is still infatuated with OM then this process will be wife will not even notice you leave, or she will find herself with the rug pulled out from under her and suddenly you look like the better options.
One more thing I purchased a very nice car for myself a few months back. At the time she told me to go ahead. But after she got deeper into the A she started complaining about it and telling me I need to sell it. I like my car and I take my son to the race track in it often. Should I sell the car?
We don't have financial issues BTW.
Well if you can afford to pay her for half of it then keep it.
Whether he spends the money on a car or it sits in an account, she's getting half.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Emotionally this is a terrible situation, but it sounds to me that legally you are actually in a very favorable situation if you play your cards right.
A disclaimer - following my advice will most likely get you divorced, but my views are that:
a. It is generally preferable to be happily divorced than miserably married, and always better to be happily divorced rather than miserably divorced.
b. You will be much more successful if you only try to control your actions that are under your control, and not try to control your WW actions or outcomes that are not under your control.
c. You really cant control the outcome of whether you stay married or get divorced, but you have a lot of control whether you are happy or miserable in either outcome.
d. The actions you need to take to be happy with whatever outcome arises are basically the same whether that outcome ends up being divorce or reconciliation, and it all boils down to putting yourself in the strongest possible position in terms of finances, custody, emotions and health.
So, to that end I have a checklist of actions I would advise you to boldly undertake if you were consulting with me: 1. Keep a journal documenting ever single parenting action you take. There should be a full entry every day, even if it is just "texted kids at their mom's"
2. Visit many different attorneys ASAP, especially any you can find with a "shark" reputation. You will get different opinions, you will also block your WW from hiring any of these sharks. Most nightmare divorces boil down to a nightmare lawyer.
3. File for divorce with primary custody and support. Get your older kids to write down their preference on living with you. Don't move out until you have papers filed, or you have your lawyer's blessing in writing. As to filing under adultery, that depends on your jurisdiction and the judge. Where I am it is a great advantage most of the time, but other places it is just extra legal costs.
4. I don't advocate full blown exposure like you see on other sites, but I strongly advise you to not keep her affair a secret from anyone. You must understand that she has been building a case against you for many months, and you need support from people who know the truth. Also, I believe you have a moral obligation to tell OM's wife.
5. Show your cards on exposing to her and OM's employer, keep this option as leverage.
6. Spend time with your kids, friends, family. Look for support. Work out to exhaustion every day using HIIT and heavy weights. Think about where you might want to live/move, change your hair style and buy new clothes that are nicer and younger than you currently wear, and smile at the check-out girl.
7. Don't send any communications to anyone that you don't want read aloud in court. And don't argue the case or any sort of logic with your WW, it will accomplish nothing and only do you harm.
8. Keep the car!
If you do all this, and do it right now while your WW is still infatuated with OM then this process will be wife will not even notice you leave, or she will find herself with the rug pulled out from under her and suddenly you look like the better options.
Good luck!
Or you can get the do-it yourself-lobotomizer- set and perform a subtle intervention while she’s sleeping. End of the problems.
Who’s next?...
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
So I got home after work and WW confronted me about wanting to discuss finances and divorce. I told her I did not want to discuss anything and she blew up on me. Started cursing. I just reminded her this was her fault. I said if she wants to talk it's not about the future and I'll listen if she can be cordial. But other than that she sent me a text saying "no f#$cking way I'm staying married to you".
I guess she went to an attorney today and gave her twisted side of the story. I have spoken with four attorneys. The only fight would be the kids. She wants me to love out so she can live here. I told her I'm not going anywhere.
I was aggravated but I didn't yell or scream.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
change your hair style and buy new clothes that are nicer and younger than you currently wear, and smile at the check-out girl.
I did that and got talking to a check-out girl who then asked for my phone number as we have things in common. We went out for a night and had a great time. She's exactly half the age of W, totally gorgeous really WOW, very intelligent, hard working doing the check-out job whilst doing studies, and we have so much in common it was incredible. She knew more about my passions than I did. No chance of R but we had a fantastic evening being sociable.
change your hair style and buy new clothes that are nicer and younger than you currently wear, and smile at the check-out girl.
I did that and got talking to a check-out girl who then asked for my phone number as we have things in common. We went out for a night and had a great time. She's exactly half the age of W, totally gorgeous really WOW, very intelligent, hard working doing the check-out job whilst doing studies, and we have so much in common it was incredible. She knew more about my passions than I did. No chance of R but we had a fantastic evening being sociable.
Nice. What's her number? Lol.
So if WW comes home and wants to talk about anything other than finances or divorce, for instance, any concerns she has about our previous marriage. Do I just listen and nod? She may.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Hey ST, I was born and raised in NM myself. Lived in the northern part of the state before I moved to the Northwest. I envy your easy access to red and green chile .
For your sitch, the best advice I can give you right now is to continue to post and read others' posts for insight. I would try to limit contact with your WW as often as you can. Whether she wonders or not, that's none of her business. She wants out, why should she care what you're up to?
You have a good head start in what is going to be a very long and painful journey (sorry). I have been told that in the long run, things will work out. I'm seeing flashes of that, but it is still a painful trek. I'm four months in to DBing after nearly 7 months of spiraling down.
Ok. So she wanted to argue. But, I deescalted her. I didn't talk about the future or love or finances or divorce. I asked her to just explain why she can't leave me be, aka not ambush argue. She essentially told me she feels like I'm trying to push her out and take all her money.
I actually laughed. I kept it brief and explained that I understand how she feels right now, I do not want to fight and that my goal is not to anger or hurt her. I asked if she was still talking to OM and she is. I gave her my opinion on that calmly and straight forward. As long as shes talking to him I don't want to talk to her about anything.
I told her that this person she is now is not my wife, but we can get along for the kids sake. I just set boundaries that she will not mistreat me or bully me into talking about the future.
She thinks that I'm backend trying to control her. I asked why and she didn't have an answer. I only talked to get her to stop causing conflict because I'm tired of it. She seems to have agreed.
I'm still retaining an attorney though.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
She got up way early this morning and left. Told D16 she had to go to work early. I know she drove to the airport. So shes going out of town for work again and to meet OM.
I need to know, should I tell OMs wife? I believe they may be separated.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
SoTorn... I would not contact the man’s wife... for a couple of reasons. 1. That is not DBing or GAL. That is being preoccupied with what she is doing and not working on you. Telling the wife would only push her towards OM not get in her way. It would escalate the situation so that they would be forced to make a choice and most likely it would be the wrong one. If you ever hope to R, let it be. It will die its own death. 2. Do you really need to cause the wife anymore pain? If they are separated, she is well aware the marriage is in trouble. Leave it be. I know if I was the wife, I would not necessarily want to know as I would be just trying to get myself together. Talking to you would just make it that much harder. She may also already know.
Years ago...in my first life, I was married to another man. About seven years into our relationship and two years into our marriage, I discovered, quite by accident, that my H was having an EA (and heading towards a PA) with a mutual friend. She was actually the longtime girlfriend of one of his best friends. Anyway, I was away at the time but made it known that I knew so when he picked me up at the airport a couple days later, it was a very somber ride home to say the least. I thought long and hard about how I wanted to deal with it. I decided that it was more of a symptom that something was wrong in our marriage than it was that either of them were bad people. So I addressed that. I acknowledged his unhappiness, we decided to work on the things that were missing and he ended whatever was going on. I also had a choice about whether or not to tell his friend, her bf. I chose not to. I didn’t tell him because I had chosen to see the A as a symptom and I had decided to forgive both of them (even though she and I were never really friends again). I had no interest in blowing up their relationship (they had kids) or causing any pain to her bd who I liked very much and who my H saw often. There were also many other friends in that circle who could have been drawn in and it had the potential to be very awkward and messy. I did not want to do that to any of them and create even more problems. So I took the high road and worked on my MR. A few months later, I was at a wedding with mutual friends and found myself sitting with her and her bf while my H was with the wedding party getting pictures taken. At some point, I got up to go to the bathroom and she followed me. When we got into the bathroom, she broke down. Apologized for what she had done...tried to explain it. I told her to stop, that I understood why it happened, that I was glad it happened because my MR was much better and I thanked her. She could not have looked more dumbfounded. I also told her that I forgave her. And I walked out of that bathroom with my head held high a much stronger, more at peace person. Now ultimately my H and I did divorce. It was a mutual decision. We wanted different things and were going in different directions. We separated for two years and then divorced when I decided to move. We amicably divided our possessions (there wasn’t much), traveled to the courthouse together, signed the papers and went out for lunch. The day before my move, we had one last lunch together and we parted with love. I cried as I drove out of town towards my new home as I was leaving my old life and heading towards a new one. He is still my friend and he and my H have actually emailed each other a few times and have a friendship of sorts. This past summer, me and my kids had dinner with him and his parents when we were vacationing. I am very proud of how we parted and of the relationship we have been able to maintain. I will endeavour to do the same with my H when/if we end up disolving our marriage - regardless of how painful it will be.
Anyway...my point is that life is long. You are hurt now. Please don’t make your decisions based on that hurt. Make your decisions from a place of peace and love and if you can’t do that now, put the decisions off until you can. You will not be sorry you did. (((HUGS)))
SoTorn... I would not contact the man’s wife... for a couple of reasons. 1. That is not DBing or GAL. That is being preoccupied with what she is doing and not working on you. Telling the wife would only push her towards OM not get in her way. It would escalate the situation so that they would be forced to make a choice and most likely it would be the wrong one. If you ever hope to R, let it be. It will die its own death. 2. Do you really need to cause the wife anymore pain? If they are separated, she is well aware the marriage is in trouble. Leave it be. I know if I was the wife, I would not necessarily want to know as I would be just trying to get myself together. Talking to you would just make it that much harder. She may also already know.
Years ago...in my first life, I was married to another man. About seven years into our relationship and two years into our marriage, I discovered, quite by accident, that my H was having an EA (and heading towards a PA) with a mutual friend. She was actually the longtime girlfriend of one of his best friends. Anyway, I was away at the time but made it known that I knew so when he picked me up at the airport a couple days later, it was a very somber ride home to say the least. I thought long and hard about how I wanted to deal with it. I decided that it was more of a symptom that something was wrong in our marriage than it was that either of them were bad people. So I addressed that. I acknowledged his unhappiness, we decided to work on the things that were missing and he ended whatever was going on. I also had a choice about whether or not to tell his friend, her bf. I chose not to. I didn’t tell him because I had chosen to see the A as a symptom and I had decided to forgive both of them (even though she and I were never really friends again). I had no interest in blowing up their relationship (they had kids) or causing any pain to her bd who I liked very much and who my H saw often. There were also many other friends in that circle who could have been drawn in and it had the potential to be very awkward and messy. I did not want to do that to any of them and create even more problems. So I took the high road and worked on my MR. A few months later, I was at a wedding with mutual friends and found myself sitting with her and her bf while my H was with the wedding party getting pictures taken. At some point, I got up to go to the bathroom and she followed me. When we got into the bathroom, she broke down. Apologized for what she had done...tried to explain it. I told her to stop, that I understood why it happened, that I was glad it happened because my MR was much better and I thanked her. She could not have looked more dumbfounded. I also told her that I forgave her. And I walked out of that bathroom with my head held high a much stronger, more at peace person. Now ultimately my H and I did divorce. It was a mutual decision. We wanted different things and were going in different directions. We separated for two years and then divorced when I decided to move. We amicably divided our possessions (there wasn’t much), traveled to the courthouse together, signed the papers and went out for lunch. The day before my move, we had one last lunch together and we parted with love. I cried as I drove out of town towards my new home as I was leaving my old life and heading towards a new one. He is still my friend and he and my H have actually emailed each other a few times and have a friendship of sorts. This past summer, me and my kids had dinner with him and his parents when we were vacationing. I am very proud of how we parted and of the relationship we have been able to maintain. I will endeavour to do the same with my H when/if we end up disolving our marriage - regardless of how painful it will be.
Anyway...my point is that life is long. You are hurt now. Please don’t make your decisions based on that hurt. Make your decisions from a place of peace and love and if you can’t do that now, put the decisions off until you can. You will not be sorry you did. (((HUGS)))
Thats what I figured. I have not told OM's W. I honestly am not thinking of telling her based on revenge. I just feel sorry for her. I feel bad that she is at home with two children by herself. Honestly the way my WW reacted when I had mentioned that she should know and that I knew her name and phone number, tells me that the OM is still holding onto his marriage and kids. I am sure he cares for them and doesnt want to hurt them. He is doing the same thing my wife is now, but from a mans perspective. My IC wanted me to tell everyone and go nuclear. When I explained what I was doing he told me that I was probably the strongest man he has dealt with and that what I am doing is unbelievable because mostly everyone either goes into full outright "save marriage pursuit mode" or they go into "Nuclear meltdown burn everything to the ground mode".
I am doing my best. Everyone going through this with kids knows how hard it is. My children are very stressed out because mom is acting so weird. I spoke with my kids this morning after she left. Unfortunately S11 and D16 know what she is doing because she pretty much told them. They are mad at her. I told them not to be mad because she isnt doing this to hurt them. I told them to just focus on school. I asked them to tell me that if they were getting to upset with the situation. My kids come first. I asked them how they felt right now. Right now they are mad at what she did, but they are ok with the living situation and still comfortable. I told them to not think or talk about anything that WW is doing and to just spend time with mom if she wants to do that, because their relationship with her is important as well. I told them that they need to keep in contact with me about how they feel. I need to know if they are too stressed out by the situation. As of now, they are mad, but they are not feeling like I do. I confirmed that my S11 and D16 are ok with her living upstairs and me downstairs. They understand that I will not fight with her and that I will not cause any issues to stress them out.
I told them to tell me if they just can't take it anymore. If they get too stressed out and it starts having a huge impact I will have to go ahead and do what I need to do to protect them. They are first, I am second. My MR is not even on the table right now.
Yesterday when the WW and I were talking she was stunned when I told her that I just want her to leave me alone and that we need to just make sure that we are co-parenting together and not separate. She asked "You are ok with co-parenting now and living like this?!?" I told her that my children were more important than anything right now and that although I do not agree to live in an open marriage, or agree that everything is just "ok", our situation is what it is right now and that if the kids are ok, then I will continue to focus on them.
Before we went to bed she asked "Why are you clinging to this so hard?" meaning our MR. (I was in full pursuit mode about a month ago) She stood there until I responded so I just said again that my kids and myself are my priority and that I have let her go. I told her that I feel that she is an adult and that I understand that she was unhappy and that I don't control her. I reaffirmed that I will not argue with her and again asked that she leave me alone.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
A few words of advice from personal experience as well as suggestions made here as well.
- Do not tell relatives, friends or spouse of AP about your problems. I fell into that trap and it does nothing but divert energies from your main goal which is the relationship. Do not even focus on OM. He is a distraction.
- To temp check the effect your situation has on the kids is complicated. Emotional outbursts or public displays of pain or sadness are like the tip of the iceberg. Kids are great at hiding emotions especially if they feel it affects the fragile relationship you have with your wife right now. I do not see them telling you they cannot take it anymore and that you both should separate. I am more inclined that that they will break inside before they reach that situation. Especially if you maintain a cordial and cold atmosphere where you just get along.
- The fact you have chosen an IHS means your chances of making it through this have dropped. The time span that something favourable will happen has increased. IMHO the biggest problem with IHS is that given the right ingredients your relationship reaches a stalemate. Her A may fizzle out she may adjust her actions towards you and your relationship may be more sustainable. She however (unless you did a great job on yourself) is still on the prowl. I found that these types of relationships turn into convenience relationships and peak out as friendly.
- One final point and it really is addressed more to you, stop "knowing". I personally see this in relationships, even "healthy" ones. I did it at the beginning of my situation and and have it done to me. Unless there is 100% proof of something we do not "know" where the spouse will be, will do or thinks. If you have ever done your share of snooping you will have had hits and misses. I sometimes "knew" she was going to meet OM when she said she was going to "B" and after checking up I was wrong. So stop "knowing" and even if you are right, so what. It is common knowledge she is having an affair and to have an affair, at least a physical one they must spend physical time together so don't fret everytime she walks out the door where she will go. Own it and work on yourself and your kids.
- About kids, much like when flying and they go over the pressure loss drill. You put your mask on yourself first and then you kids. Here is the same. To be there for your kids you need to take care of yourself first. So really learn the rules, principles and techniques and follow the advice.
I wish you well and hope you overcome your situation.
I am doing my best. Everyone going through this with kids knows how hard it is. My children are very stressed out because mom is acting so weird. I spoke with my kids this morning after she left. Unfortunately S11 and D16 know what she is doing because she pretty much told them. They are mad at her. I told them not to be mad because she isnt doing this to hurt them. I told them to just focus on school. I asked them to tell me that if they were getting to upset with the situation. My kids come first. I asked them how they felt right now. Right now they are mad at what she did, but they are ok with the living situation and still comfortable. I told them to not think or talk about anything that WW is doing and to just spend time with mom if she wants to do that, because their relationship with her is important as well. I told them that they need to keep in contact with me about how they feel. I need to know if they are too stressed out by the situation. As of now, they are mad, but they are not feeling like I do. I confirmed that my S11 and D16 are ok with her living upstairs and me downstairs. They understand that I will not fight with her and that I will not cause any issues to stress them out.
I told them to tell me if they just can't take it anymore. If they get too stressed out and it starts having a huge impact I will have to go ahead and do what I need to do to protect them. They are first, I am second. My MR is not even on the table right now.
Please be careful with how much you share with your kids. It sounds a lot like you are trying to "recruit" them. To paint your W as the bad guy and that the three of you are in this together. Im also confused by what you mean when they say they "cant take it." Why arent you doing what you need to do right now? You know what I mean? Like is picking up and moving out LESS stressful for them? I have my doubts.
Id also caution you to practice validation with kids as well. Let them talk and feel. The spot I bolded looks very invalidating. How can you help them understand and process their anger. Telling them not to be angry doesnt seem like a way that they will continue to open up to you.
I am definitely not trying to recruit them. I just want to prepare them in case something crazy happens. I don't want them to feel blind sided. When my parents fought over me, it really sucked for years and years and years because it was out of the blue. I am not fighting over them in court. In New Mexico, the older kid gets to decide where they want to live. If it heads in that direction my older daughter can choose whatever she wants. If she wants 50/50 custody so be it. If she wants to live with her mom, so be it. If she wants to live with me, so be it. I just don't want them stressed out. D16 is already in counseling because she has been feeling abandoned due to the WW directing all of her attention toward her work initially.
WW actually told D16 that I had her followed because I am "paranoid she is having an affair". D16 asked for the truth and WW lied to her. D16 asked me and I told her that I would not talk about my marriage with them beyond what they can see. But D16 and D19 are not stupid. They know exactly what is going on, they just havent received confirmation from WW or I because its not their burden.
I didnt mean that they couldnt be mad. I just don't want them fighting with her. They can feel how they want. I just don't want them to go confront her or cause conflict because she reacts toward them just like she would me asking questions. The kids are entitled to feel however they want. I just asked that they don't try and pursue her or plead with her about anything. I do allow them to talk. I asked them to keep me updated on how they feel and if they have any questions or concerns they can bring them to me and I will talk about what I feel is appropriate. Unfortunately, they noticed all of the changes that I noticed as well, because WW is acting completely different than she ever has. WW is a completely different person, one that nobody recognizes.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
As a follow up to Amoawful's post, I would suggest you stop telling them how to act with regards to your wife, let them go through the pain and anger they will have. They need to ride this out as much as you do. Each one in his own way.
I also imagine that at some point your wife may find anger from her kids addressed at her and will try to involve you. I recommend you let her fight her own battles and do not get involved either to defend your kids' reactions or try to get them to "like" her. You have enough on your plate already.
In my own parents divorce the problems were never directed at me nor was I the cause but I still felt the pain of watching two people who loved each other now destroy each other. Watch how the bubble that I lived in of happiness and security was torn away. None of them were mad at me but i still faced the same results and consequences as well as watch helplessly as life as I knew it disappeared.
So no, she is not doing this to hurt them nor hurt you but she is hurting both.
A few words of advice from personal experience as well as suggestions made here as well.
- Do not tell relatives, friends or spouse of AP about your problems. I fell into that trap and it does nothing but divert energies from your main goal which is the relationship. Do not even focus on OM. He is a distraction.
- To temp check the effect your situation has on the kids is complicated. Emotional outbursts or public displays of pain or sadness are like the tip of the iceberg. Kids are great at hiding emotions especially if they feel it affects the fragile relationship you have with your wife right now. I do not see them telling you they cannot take it anymore and that you both should separate. I am more inclined that that they will break inside before they reach that situation. Especially if you maintain a cordial and cold atmosphere where you just get along.
- The fact you have chosen an IHS means your chances of making it through this have dropped. The time span that something favourable will happen has increased. IMHO the biggest problem with IHS is that given the right ingredients your relationship reaches a stalemate. Her A may fizzle out she may adjust her actions towards you and your relationship may be more sustainable. She however (unless you did a great job on yourself) is still on the prowl. I found that these types of relationships turn into convenience relationships and peak out as friendly.
- One final point and it really is addressed more to you, stop "knowing". I personally see this in relationships, even "healthy" ones. I did it at the beginning of my situation and and have it done to me. Unless there is 100% proof of something we do not "know" where the spouse will be, will do or thinks. If you have ever done your share of snooping you will have had hits and misses. I sometimes "knew" she was going to meet OM when she said she was going to "B" and after checking up I was wrong. So stop "knowing" and even if you are right, so what. It is common knowledge she is having an affair and to have an affair, at least a physical one they must spend physical time together so don't fret everytime she walks out the door where she will go. Own it and work on yourself and your kids.
- About kids, much like when flying and they go over the pressure loss drill. You put your mask on yourself first and then you kids. Here is the same. To be there for your kids you need to take care of yourself first. So really learn the rules, principles and techniques and follow the advice.
I wish you well and hope you overcome your situation.
Peace
Max
I understand. Honestly, the only reason I havent moved out is because it affects me legally with my children. Thats it. I don't want to put myself at a disadvantage with having any sort of custody with my kids. Also, I am absolutely taking care of myself. The hurt and waves of depression are getting further and further away. Me not pursuing my wife and me GAL is shielding me from her hateful actions and behavior, so its making me feel better more and more every day. I actually slept pretty well the last two nights. I havent slept well in a few months now.
I am not worried about what the wife is doing. She works with this man out of town. Every time in the past she has been with him when she has gone out of town. She is out of town again. I know she will see him. I don't care if she does because I accept that I can't do anything about it. The only worry I have is that WW went bonkers and decided to pack up and leave. That puts me at a financial disadvantage because I cannot afford my home and kids by myself. Its just not possible. Our lifestyle is set up so that it takes both of our income to sustain. If she just up and bailed out that puts my credit and finances at risk. I am not ok with that. I guess we will find out shortly here.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
If they can feel how they want then fighting with your W is a possibility. They have a right to know what's going on when things are beyond concealment phase and a right to be treated as part of a family that is breaking up.
In the same way it is your duty to protect them, it is your W's duty to care for their feelings as well when faced with the questioning. Whether she chooses to lie to them or tell them the truth or any other approach is her perrogative not yours.
If she turns on them it si your duty to defend them but not much else. You are not your W's advocate and can't fight her on the one hand and protect her on the other.
As a follow up to Amoawful's post, I would suggest you stop telling them how to act with regards to your wife, let them go through the pain and anger they will have. They need to ride this out as much as you do. Each one in his own way.
I also imagine that at some point your wife may find anger from her kids addressed at her and will try to involve you. I recommend you let her fight her own battles and do not get involved either to defend your kids' reactions or try to get them to "like" her. You have enough on your plate already.
In my own parents divorce the problems were never directed at me nor was I the cause but I still felt the pain of watching two people who loved each other now destroy each other. Watch how the bubble that I lived in of happiness and security was torn away. None of them were mad at me but i still faced the same results and consequences as well as watch helplessly as life as I knew it disappeared.
So no, she is not doing this to hurt them nor hurt you but she is hurting both.
Peace
Max
I know the WW already feels the kids emotions. I just don't want her mistreating them. WW cannot handle any sort of confrontation from anyone at this moment. WW can't handle being questioned. D16 had asked her why WW was always gone and WW reacted just like she does when I ask that question "Why are you trying to guilt me, you just give me a hard time about working hard for you, all you care about is yourself!" I don't want my kids to have to deal with that. I want them to spend quality time with their mom. I want them to have a good relationship with their mom. I don't want WW's negative reactive behavior directed at them. I can't handle my kids being mistreated at all. That will make me come right out of DBing and confront WW if I see it. Therefore, since I cannot control WW's actions, I have simply asked the kids to not be confrontational with her, because it will just blow up into an argument. Of course I can't control them, but they see that what I requested is rational.
I am going to take my kids to Main Event later. Its like Dave and Busters. So we have something to do tonight, it will be cool.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
When my parents broke up I went from not understanding about domestic finances to feeling the loss of being the "poorest" kid in the bunch when we went out. My mother worked 2 jobs, sometimes 3 and dragged me to 2 schools as well as leave me with family when she worked in the evening or have me for 2 hours in the waiting room while she finished work. It was then a night bus home in the cold and rain and then supper and bed.
The next day more and so on for a longtime. When I was able to I worked part time and contributed a portion to the home. There was a lot more sh1t to deal with when you have to stretch the income to make ends meet but that is my secret.
I understand that her leaving will affect your income and will change your lives but your lives will never be the same again anyway. In all of this the only images and flashbacks I have of their break up was the loneliness of not having a father, the fights and discussions I had to endure. The tense moments as well as being dragged into some of the battles.
My mind does not remember the financial hardship when it was my mum and me first but the emotional pain when they were together.
I have a friend who also packed all her stuff into a car and left leaving everything behind, just her and her 2 children for a new start. 2 years on and they are miles happier. Financially poorer but emotionally richer.
Sometimes the worst brings out the best in us. Children are stronger than you give them credit for, don't overprotect them. The bigger the bubble the bigger the bang.
I undrstand you dont want a confrontation between W and kids but unless they work their own sh1t out with all the consequences how will they have "quality time" if the built up emotions are still there and they have not cleared the air?.
Do you want them to have the same "cordial" relationship as per IHS or a healthy one? A healthy one can only be achieved if it goes through all the phases.
I undrstand you dont want a confrontation between W and kids but unless they work their own sh1t out with all the consequences how will they have "quality time" if the built up emotions are still there and they have not cleared the air?.
Do you want them to have the same "cordial" relationship as per IHS or a healthy one? A healthy one can only be achieved if it goes through all the phases.
Peace
Max
Honestly, I just don't trust the wife right now. WW has absolutely detached from the children over the course of the last year. She spends time with them but its just very robotic. She will take them to the mall or out to dinner and she just has nothing to say to the kids.
The kids know that they can tell her whatever they want, they can ask her whatever they want. Unfortunately, both WW and I had a major issue with communication and arguing to win. I don't want my kids trying to argue to win because it is very unhealthy for them. WW is too far gone mentally to have any sort of reasonable conversation with the kids about whats going on, so even if they did try and just discuss it with her, she would mistreat them. They understand that. I just asked that they keep talking to me so that I know they are ok.
I know I will be fine without her income. She is trying to "punish" me by removing her income. That will not work because I will make it work and I also have a ton of family who would be more than happy to help me. One good thing about our MR is that we were always financially responsible. I have minimal revolving debt. I have my house, my car and a small balance on a credit card. So there is no danger of bankruptcy or ruining credit etc. Thats just not something that would happen. WW is to proud to let her credit get ruined. We have never paid a single bill late in the last 21 years.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
So the WW just messaged my son and told him she had to fly out of town for work and will be back tomorrow. Aka she is with OM. God I want to message her a profanity laced message about what shes doing. But I wont. Blatant disrespect. Lying to her kids.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
That really s@cks. Just remember that you can't control her. You can only control your reactions and your own emotions. Show your kids a positive role model through your actions.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
I'm at Main Event with my kids enjoying my time with them. F@#k WW.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
So D16 and D19 are actually really pissed off that WW decided to lie to them about going out of town. Unfortunately, they have pieced together what shes doing. They asked her where she was and she lied. Then blamed me for having them ask when I did not. She full tilt thinks I'm puppeteering the older kids. I haven't told them anything. They just aren't stupid. They are fully aware she is lying now. They were texting her all night and she was lying to them. D16 finally told me she was texting WW before I went to bed. Kids are NOT happy with WW. I will no longer ask them to bite their tongue. They are old enough to figure it out, so they can say what they want to say to her.
WW will blame me for her lying to the kids and for them not being stupid and figuring it out. I didn't confirm anything. I can't do that. My poor kids.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
You have strong, clever kids, ST. They will help you get through this just like you will help them get through this. You keep being the best you can be. For yourself and for your kids.
SoTorn - I dont really have time to parse up the last few posts.
But my advice is to slow down. You seem very agitated, angry, and it reads like you feel you need to DO or SAY something immediately. My advice right now is to really focus on you and let your W do what she wants. I would also recommend to stop talking about the relationship between your kids and their mom. At 16 and 19, they are old enough to make their own decisions about their mom. Just say that their relationship with their mom is their business and that they will need to have that talk with her. Just keep your focus on you and let your W do whatever it is she is going to do.
I would also contact a lawyer and consult about what your choices are and what the ramifications are as far as living arrangements.
I'm detached fully. Fully GAL. Yes I'm angry but I'm not letting that drive me. Kids are talking to me about WW. I'm not going to just shut them down. The are free to say what they want now.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Hey ST, I struggle in same sitch, S22 knows all he had to be brought in early, S14 knew enough from hearing the arguments. I 2 am in IHS but we could both afford to leave but she won't and I won't because of custody issues. Biggest issue is S14 because WW went through her period of contacting him all the time with plans to be away for weekend. That upset him alot and he has felt like his mom has walked away from the family. Any hostility from S14 is blamed on me as guiding him through alienation which is not true.
It is a tough battle I admit, especially IHS but I know I have made strides. The advice here is good about GAL, you have to work on you. My attorney gave me same advice months back when I screwed up adultery charges. I said what can i do? He said call me if she moves out otherwise take care of yourself and your kids or you will go crazy.
It's an uphill battle I know but I am happier now and work with the kids to keep them as happy as I can regardless of the WW.
H-50 W-48 T-19 M -18 S23, S14 BD - 5/9/2018 OM discovered 5/10/2018
In house sep - 8/18/2018 Rope drop 2/15/2019 R'ing since 3/15/2019
Your kids are suffering, they will always love their mom. W is not a rational person now, you need to let her be, there´s nothing you can do about it. Be there for the kids just like you are doing now.
Keep detaching. Stay strong man!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Yeah man. I am just detaching. I have not contacted WW at all. I don't know if D16 is going to say something to WW tonight or not. She can if she wants, I will not stop her. I already have my plans for the night. Go home, say hi to my kids, go to the gym, go out with friends. I may take S11 with me to go out and eat dinner and hang out with friends. Most of my friends are in the car scene and my boy sure loves fast cars just like his dad.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Detaching takes time ST. It is not about having contact with W. You can have contact indeed. It’s about you not been affected by W actions. It’s a very important item in DB. Have you read what Job and Cadet posted about it? It’s really important.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Yes, I have read the rules and just about every single post on this site about a WW lol. I honestly don't want to have contact with the WW right now. She is not reaching out to me. I am not being rude or anything. I am just not in contact with her. If she doesnt talk to me thats fine with me. If she talks to me I will be short, upbeat and happy because I am happy with myself.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I'm honestly completely detaching. The only reason I mentioned where she was is because she hurt the kids by lying to them.
I went out with three friends tonight after I hit the gym. It was a good night.
One question, I know that I'm supposed to still interact with WW. What if I dont want to? I can't stand who she has become. I pity her actually. I dont want to be rude but i literally dont want to even talk to her. Shes not initiating any contact at all. Which is fine with me.
I actually feel much better when shes gone. This shell of my wife garnishes no interest from me whatsoever.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I'm honestly completely detaching. The only reason I mentioned where she was is because she hurt the kids by lying to them.
I went out with three friends tonight after I hit the gym. It was a good night.
One question, I know that I'm supposed to still interact with WW. What if I dont want to? I can't stand who she has become. I pity her actually. I dont want to be rude but i literally dont want to even talk to her. Shes not initiating any contact at all. Which is fine with me.
I actually feel much better when shes gone. This shell of my wife garnishes no interest from me whatsoever.
Hi ST,
Detaching and GAL are about the results and not the actions. Going out with friends and living your life is the process but not the goal. Much like going to a gym and eating right is the way to lose weight but hitting does not mean you are.
I still sense anger,a desire for retribution and focus on your wife using the relationship with the kids as a front.
Oh I was going out to just de-stress and enjoy my friends like I should have been all along.
I dont know why you sense all of these things. I'm hurt but I'm not angry. I was upset that she lied to my kids because it hurt them. I have no desire to be vengeful or vindictive. That accomplishes nothing.
I have actually lost 80lbs since April. That was my goal and i accomplished it. Me getting out with friends is simply me making sure that I am being active and not subjecting myself to her hurtful actions.
I have not spoken with her. I had emailed her a while back stating that I dont agree on divorce but wont stop her. That I will not be in an open marriage and that I want to be friends but can't as long as she is speaking to OM.
She finally responded to it this morning. Same WW different day. The tone of her email wreaks of adversity and resentment for me simply spending time with my kids when she is out of town.
She is desperately trying to get me to talk about finances and negotiate something with her. I responded and just told her that I will continue to strengthen my relationship with my kids and I feel that is a good thing. I advised her that I wont discuss anything with her as long as she is talking to OM.
Last edited by SoTorn; 11/17/1805:24 PM.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I think that she may have retained an attorney and is trying to get me to agree to mediation. Should I just go through with it if she does?
I don't want her in the house but I don't think I can qualify for it if I buy her out. I would have to refinance it for its full worth, which would give me about $100K in equity split between us. I mean I would be fine making the payments, but alone I don't think I can qualify for that.
If this ends I honestly don't really want to live in the house. The house is our dream house that we finally built four years ago. If I leave she has to buy me out and split assets. If that happened I would have enough money to get myself a hour or something. She keeps bringing up 50% custody. There is no way that would happen with her traveling three to four days per week for her job/affair.
Should I just do nothing unless I am served with some sort of papers?
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
You can't stop her from getting the D if that is what she wants, so it is fruitless to try. That said, you can certainly let her take on all the work for it. Mediation is a much cheaper and possibly less contentious environment than battling it out in the courts. Some people refuse and hold out for the courts because that process can take longer and buy them more time. Personally, I would prefer to do mediation. Of course going to mediation does NOT mean that you have to agree to her all of her demands, or even agree to what the mediator says. You can go in and walk away at any point if you are unhappy with the process.
I don't understand why you won't discuss financial arrangements with her so long as she is with OM. That makes sense for discussing the relationship or possible R, but the financial stuff will have to be settled at some point. It seems like you are using that as a threat to try to get her to stop seeing OM. That is controlling. Stop trying to control her. If you want to just wait for her to file and deal with it all then, that is fine, but you will have to deal with the financials whether or not she is still with OM.
I hear you about the house. I am in a similar situation. I would just give it time and see how it plays out. If it ends up that you want to move out there is no problem. If you want to stay you can cross that bridge when you come to it. I don't think there is anything you can do right now to help that situation.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
So I get home and as I walk in my wife is screaming profanity at the top of her lungs at D16. I guess D16 heard her talking to OM and D16 told her that if she continues down this path that she will make sure that she never sees D16 again and that D16 and S11 will live with me for sure. Unfortunately instead of having a moment of clarity WW just started threatening to punish D16 and take all her stuff from her etc.
WW went ape sh*t. Screaming F@#k you at D16. I got D16 and S11 and left. Jesus. WW is waaaaaaay in fantasy land.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Full meltdown mode. But I'm not involved. WW telling her whole family how horrible I am.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
WW went ape sh*t. Screaming F@#k you at D16. I got D16 and S11 and left. Jesus. WW is waaaaaaay in fantasy land.
Fantasy land? Yikes. I feel for your kids! That's terrible. Very abusive, IMO. I hope you document all of her antics!
Yep.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
WW just got curb stomped by reality. I really hope that she at least caught a glimpse of what she has done to this family.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
You can't stop her from getting the D if that is what she wants, so it is fruitless to try. That said, you can certainly let her take on all the work for it. Mediation is a much cheaper and possibly less contentious environment than battling it out in the courts. Some people refuse and hold out for the courts because that process can take longer and buy them more time. Personally, I would prefer to do mediation. Of course going to mediation does NOT mean that you have to agree to her all of her demands, or even agree to what the mediator says. You can go in and walk away at any point if you are unhappy with the process.
I don't understand why you won't discuss financial arrangements with her so long as she is with OM. That makes sense for discussing the relationship or possible R, but the financial stuff will have to be settled at some point. It seems like you are using that as a threat to try to get her to stop seeing OM. That is controlling. Stop trying to control her. If you want to just wait for her to file and deal with it all then, that is fine, but you will have to deal with the financials whether or not she is still with OM.
I hear you about the house. I am in a similar situation. I would just give it time and see how it plays out. If it ends up that you want to move out there is no problem. If you want to stay you can cross that bridge when you come to it. I don't think there is anything you can do right now to help that situation.
I wont discuss them because she is using the fact that she makes more money to punish me.shes not trying to be reasonable. Shes pointing out that if I pay half of everything that she will have a bunch of money and I wont. I know its punitive because she has berated me for only making twice the median national household income per year by myself because I only have a high school diploma.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
So WW came home. Tried to draw me into a fight. Called me a piece of sh*t and that I will be sorry for feeding the kids bullsit.
WW feels that although she put the idea of an affair in D16s mind by telling her I had her followed and was paranoid she had an affair, that I am manipulating the kids by telling them lies.
When in fact my mother in law has been calling D16 and D19 every day trying to convince them that my wifes affair was an exit plan and that I'm a bad person and WW is justified in doing all of this.
So now that I found out MIL is trying to manipulate kids I am pissed. After D16 got into argument, D11 knows now because of their fight. I may have to take the kids down to the station to file a police report. I guess WW totally flipped out.
WW believes that everyone in my family is now out to get her and that I'm trying to get people to choose sides. So I'm sure WW is telling all two of her family members that I'm evil, devil in the flesh.
I can't believe that my MIL thinks I bugged her house and her phone. Jesus. I am seriously beginning to believe that WW may be suffering from a serious mental health issue.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I wont discuss them because she is using the fact that she makes more money to punish me.shes not trying to be reasonable. Shes pointing out that if I pay half of everything that she will have a bunch of money and I wont. I know its punitive because she has berated me for only making twice the median national household income per year by myself because I only have a high school diploma.
She berates you for only making $118K, am I understanding this correctly?
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
I wont discuss them because she is using the fact that she makes more money to punish me.shes not trying to be reasonable. Shes pointing out that if I pay half of everything that she will have a bunch of money and I wont. I know its punitive because she has berated me for only making twice the median national household income per year by myself because I only have a high school diploma.
She berates you for only making $118K, am I understanding this correctly?
Correct. I also insure my entire family and pay for mine and her families cell phone service. WW is completely convinced in some worthless idiot.
D16 has a counseling session at 11. WW invited herself to go. WW, and now her mom and brother are desperately trying to convince the kids that I am lying to them and that she has done nothing. Even though she opened the gate for D16 knowing about this, she keeps telling them stuff like "i didn't love him anymore so i wasn't cheating "
It's really sickening how the WS can get so delusional that they are trying to convince everyone that the truth isn't real.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
It’s a part of the script in which everything was always bad and your 100% at fault for everything that caused the detriment of your MR. Any logic or reasoning is out the window in her emotional state. I know that’s how my W treats me.
Me - 38 W-37 S6 M 10 years T 13yrs BD 3/18 W moves out 4/18 W files 7/18
Yep. It's a mental health issue. So today when I got up WW immediately ambushed me asking about how much I ran up the credit card. WW is convinced I'm just going nuts and spending drives of cash. I calmly explained that it's my card and I will use it and that I'm sorry if she feels I'm plotting against her when I am in fact not.
WW tried to again tell me I was puppeteering the children. I advised I'm sorry she feels that way but our children are old enough to know right and wrong and that the children unfortunately saw her true colors last night and that the perspective the kids have is based solely on her actions.
I told WW that I'm not taking blame for anything happening right now and that I know who I am and so do my children. I advised her that she got herself into this situation and that it's her responsibility to repair what she has done. I left it at that.
WW left for a while. Therefore I went to my moms with S11 and D19 for a while. WW messaged me asking where S11 was. I waited a while and advised "with me". I left my phone on silent and she had messaged four more times "where are you?" I never responded. Came home and WW is sitting in the room on her phone as always.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
WW just got curb stomped by reality. I really hope that she at least caught a glimpse of what she has done to this family.
ST, first very sorry you're going through this. It's especially difficult when the WAS tends to be violent. Second, no she's not getting a dose of reality. That's not how it works. She still thinks everything is your fault. You've got to completely remove yourself from the equation (go dark as possible, contact limited to kid exchanges and info), and for months and months, before reality will start setting in for her. Third, talk to your L about her behavior. He/ she may recommend that you start documenting all of this and maybe even recording it. Her behavior is not normal for a WAS, so please don't think this is just a phase to work through or something you have to live with. It is NOT. It sounds to me like abuse, and you do not want her abusing your kids under any circumstances. Talk to your L!
WS's project all of their negatives onto the LBS. This is to be expected, so handle it calmly.
I felt like you were maybe puppeteering the children, so just make sure you aren't. I don't know if you were or weren't, but just be careful. Be the sane one at all times.
Also, use less words in responding to her.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
WW just got curb stomped by reality. I really hope that she at least caught a glimpse of what she has done to this family.
ST, first very sorry you're going through this. It's especially difficult when the WAS tends to be violent. Second, no she's not getting a dose of reality. That's not how it works. She still thinks everything is your fault. You've got to completely remove yourself from the equation (go dark as possible, contact limited to kid exchanges and info), and for months and months, before reality will start setting in for her. Third, talk to your L about her behavior. He/ she may recommend that you start documenting all of this and maybe even recording it. Her behavior is not normal for a WAS, so please don't think this is just a phase to work through or something you have to live with. It is NOT. It sounds to me like abuse, and you do not want her abusing your kids under any circumstances. Talk to your L!
Oh I know this okay take a while and that there is a slim chance of hope.
D16 told me that in her IC session with WW, WW broke down crying and said she was "so sorry". D16 asked her for what and WW said "for everything ".
I know her mind isn't anywhere near where it needs to be for her to recognize how badly she messed up.
Unfortunately, WW and I are both off and home today. I'm getting out for some chores. WW cant even look at me and is acting super timid and meek.
I'm continuing NC unless something necessary comes up. I had to get something from her bathroom so I was polite and asked before I went into her room.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
WS's project all of their negatives onto the LBS. This is to be expected, so handle it calmly.
I felt like you were maybe puppeteering the children, so just make sure you aren't. I don't know if you were or weren't, but just be careful. Be the sane one at all times.
Also, use less words in responding to her.
I'm not puppeteering the kids. I'm just spending time with them. Please understand that along with ignoring me for 1.5 years, she did the same to the kids. So they talk about her to me a lot. I stay out of the meat of what's happening. I just tell them that we both love them and that we will all be fine.
Also, I didn't just start taking my kids out. This is a normal thing for me. I have been the only parent home 100% of the time while WW travels. So I'm always doing things with the kids.
I'm dark on WW. No contact and minimal words if speaking is necessary.
Kids are at school. Im going to run some errands.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Im so done with the BS talk about everything I have done and need to change. I used to get angry but laugh inside now and actually feel bad for the b**** that she is living in that reality and feels that way.
H-50 W-48 T-19 M -18 S23, S14 BD - 5/9/2018 OM discovered 5/10/2018
In house sep - 8/18/2018 Rope drop 2/15/2019 R'ing since 3/15/2019
ST, you're over 10 pages, time for a new thread! Go ahead and start a new one with the same title and "part 2". For your last post in this thread link to the new thread, and for your first post in the new one link to this one.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
D16 told me that in her IC session with WW, WW broke down crying and said she was "so sorry". D16 asked her for what and WW said "for everything ".
This happens a lot. Often when the LBS sees this they think the WAS has had a breakthrough and is experiencing remorse. That's not what it is though. It is just an outpouring of grief because she knows she's hurting everyone. BUT SHE STILL FEELS JUSTIFIED IN HER ACTIONS. That's the difference. Eventually she'll hit bottom and start feeling remorse, but not yet.
.