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SoTorn Offline OP
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Hello everyone,

Long time lurker, finally signed up. Desperately trying to save my marriage and family.

Back story:

I met my wife when I was 16. We are both 38 now. We had our first child at 18, married in 2001. We have three kids. D19 D16 and B11. We were a young couple and we both came from broken homes where the parents did not know how to communicate. We started at zero. Started off poor. Moved out at 18 and since then we have both worked ourselves into good careers and carved out a very nice life for our kids. We have been the standard the rest of the family holds themselves to.

That being said, unfortunately since we both had no idea how to communicate and we were essentially self taught on marriage and raising kids, our marriage did have lots of ups and downs. Mostly just arguments and conflict about stuff we were to be discussing and compromising on. My wife is very motivated.

Over the years I myself made a couple of bad choices. I did not cheat, but I did hurt my wife and I take full responsibility for that. However, in regards to the communication issues, conflict etc, I will only take responsibility for my part.

Late 2015 my wife had a talk with me about an issue we had, wherein she advised that she loved me and that she wanted to change to better myself and that our marriage would be better if I made the necessary changes. I did exactly that. I did not do it for her, but I was aware that I needed to mature emotionally so that I could be a better person for my family.

Since the beginning of 2016 I have been making a significant effort to be a better person, better communication etc. It was working very well and my relationship with my wife and kids was getting stronger. Unfortunately, wife still had issues with communication. Late 2017 my wife's company was bought out by another company. This afforded her a promotion. Unfortunately, a long with this promotion came a new manager for her. This man is 20 years her senior.

My wife's travel picked up from once or twice a month to about 50%. At first she was constantly in contact with me, always checking up, talking to the kids etc. Early 2018 I noticed that her new manager started taking her to dinner every single night they were out. A lot of the time in groups and the rest just them. This really bothered me. Unfortunately this made me very insecure. I started suspecting an EA about March 2018. Yet the wife was still checking in with me etc. But when she was at home she was distant. May 2018 she started with the red flags. Different grooming, started wearing sexier clothing etc.

Unfortunately, I started asking her if she was having an affair. At this time we were still intimate often and were getting along fairly well. So I believe it was an EA still. I went to the Philippines for a month in June 2018. When I came back she had a belly button ring and had again groomed herself differently. My wife is 5ft 10in. She is absolutely gorgeous. Prior to my trip I had started working on my fitness and lost about 50lbs before I got back from my trip.

When I got back, although we were still intimate, my wife's travel had picked up to about 75%. Same behaviors with dining out constantly. But she always kept me in the loop. Called me when she was at hotel. Would FB video me before bed etc.

Beginning of August 2018 she changed completely. We weren't intimate for a month. I assumed she had started a PA. But when questioned she would deny. I tried to approach with open arms for the truth. With forgiveness. Nothing worked. She did start being intimate with me finally but she just laid there, no emotion. I knew something was up badly. Shortly after I heard the "I love you but I'm not in love with you". That hurt.

Unfortunately I had not yet found this site so I kept asking her. About 7 weeks ago she stopped intimacy completely. She went out of town and was acting very odd. No more calling at night, staying out late and not answering her phone. I asked where she was staying and she told me. Called the hotel and she wasn't there. Instead of just doing g further investigation I confronted her. She denied and when she got home, about 6 weeks ago she moved into my daughter's room. That's when I found this site. She wouldn't admit to an A and kept telling me she needed space and maybe she would come back to me if I showed her change. I have changed a lot. I listen, don't attack, no complaining etc. I worked hard on myself.

I continued to ask of she was having an A with her manager. She denied. Her work got bought out again and he was no longer her manager. He moved back to California with his wife and two kids. He also has older kids with grandchildren.

She immediately scheduled "business" trips to California. I couldn't ignore it any longer so I started investigating. I found that she had booked a room about 5 minutes from this guy's house. She booked the room with two adults.

She still denied when I asked to please let me know. I decided to hire a PA and on the nights of October 31st and November 1st, I got confirmation of exactly what I suspected.

Confronted her with proof on November 2nd. She denied and denied. They tried to get some story together saying he was sick. So she stayed with him for a while and went to another hotel. I had to show some of what I have. Through the weekend she still denied. I had to let her listen to a recording of herself that I got ahold of, speaking with him, talking dirty and saying she loves him.

This absolutely devastated me. I am deeply in love with my wife. Now shes like a zombie roaming around the house. Complete full blown WW. I have tried to follow the steps on this site. I have had a couple of conversations with her that end up in blaming me. Typical behavior. Unfortunately during this last year WW has completely ignored the children. Since she has been emotionally and physically gone for them they no longer trust her. They rely on me 100% for them and our relationship is very strong.

Prior to confrontation I spoke with several attorneys. I reside in a no fault state. But since I have proof of an affair, can file under adultery as fault. That wont have anything to do with assets. But would help with custody.

Unfortunately the kids know. They noticed the huge changes in her and the older ones aren't stupid. I had just told them I need to talk on CD and they knew I must have confirmed something because they asked. I did not tell them yes or no.

Over the past week my wife has just sat in her room on her phone. I have been GAL very well. But shes in la la land badly. Bad affair fog. I told her that if she continues to travel for no reason that I am done. I can tell she wants her cake and to est it too. She was afraid that I was going to report this to her work and the man's wife. She could get fired for integrity reasons. The old me would have went nuclear. I did not. I did get angry when. she blamed me. But beyond that I told her that I don't want a divorce. She wants a divorce but wont fo it because the kids want to live with me. 16 year olds opinion would be deciding factor and she told me along with my son that they don't want to live with her. Unfortunately her WW syndrome is making her test them like she does me. Always blaming them for complaining about her, guilting her about working etc.

WW tried to tell D16 that I was paranoid and had her followed because I thought she was having an A. Daughter asked her to be honest and she lied. D16 pissed off even more now. D16 told mom that if there is divorce, D16 and S11 want to live with me. WW trying to get me to get divorce mediator. I told her that's not what I want. Told her that if that is what she wants she can leave. Bunch of excuses why she wont move out.

If we D I will get alimony, child support and a ton of her assets as she makes much more than I do. WW now wont talk at all. I have been trying to detach. I have written her a few letters that just explain to her that I am no longer pursuing her, that I am no longer allowing her decisions to affect my emotions. I will not take blame and just my perspective on the kids and everything. No threats or pleading. Just being honest on how her actions have affected the kids. What she has done to me etc. I have written two letters. Simply because she is ignoring the hell out of the kids.

Went to an MC who typically said "well she doesn't live you go get a D". No more MC.

Wife is currently traveling to see a friend in Dallas and then to see her father. My mom and dad know. Nobody else. Again this floored me. I am trying so hard to detach. Hard to stay strong. Show no emotions. But I have broken down in my room quite a few times. This is affecting me badly and making it hard to GAL.

I have nearly hit goal weight so I have been going to the gym more, hanging with friends more etc. I have been taking my kids to dinner and spending a ton of time with them. I know that it's just after CD still.

The biggest issue I need help with right now is that my wife is still in contact with OM. She hides in the bathroom. I told her that her remaining in contact in this home is disrespectful. We aren't fighting. She may think I'm going to report her to her work but I'm not. I'm not vindictive. Just hurt badly.

Right now she has zero consequences and will not leave. She has not scheduled another trip yet. Thank God he lives in another state. I want her to see consequences. I want to move out with my kids since she wont leave. But that would probably require me get an attorney on retainer. But she will not move out. Plus if I move out I'm sure she will immediately go travel.

Should I move out and take the kids now? And just hope she doesn't file or freak out if I do? She told D16 she did not want a custody battle. If I do move out should I only do it if she schedules a trip for work? In order for us to reconcile she would have to quit. That's the only way she would have no contact with this man.

I have never been so sad in my life. I look great for only me now. Thanks everyone.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
D Filed: March 27, 2019
Joined: Nov 2018
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SoTorn Offline OP
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To add to this. I am fully prepared to accept that if I move out with the kids that she may file for D. But, she is terrified that our entire family will find out she had an A. She has a perfect and highly regarded reputation with all of our family and friends.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
D Filed: March 27, 2019
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,174
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Sadly ST... I’m not sure what I would do if I were you. I know how you feel though. It hurts like hell to feel so strongly about someone and have them turn away. I think you can’t worry what she will do and you need to do what is best for you right now. I look great for only me now too. But that is just for now. No one knows what the future will bring. Focus on you and the kids. Easier said than done, I know. My H moved out before I even knew what was happening so I didn’t have to face anything like this. Perhaps some of the people on here who have will have some good advice. Sorry this is happening to you and your family. frown

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SoTorn Offline OP
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Yes I am absolutely devastated. I knew this would happen. I felt it. I have great intuition. I knew this man was pursuing her madly. Plus she likes to drink and I know that the first time they started PA she was probably drunk. But then she went full tilt into it. I know she is conflicted because I tried to ask when she first initiated PA and she said shes not ready to talk about that. I have had some normal starting conversations where she seems to understand how badly she messed up. The crappy thing is that my wife has stubborn pride. She has never made a mistake of this magnitude. She has always been a great woman and great mom and this A made her regress back into what feels like a teenager on strike.

Should I completely ignore her? Or is it ok to be cordial and send texts for good morning and goodnight? I don't want to push her further away but shes gotta face the music. There are three options I believe will happen if I move out and take the kids. The worst would be she hits the fan and goes on a legal warpath, the second is that she simply doesn't care and does nothing and the third is that she gets a good jolt on the consequences. I may call another attorney just to see what I have to do. One good thing is that I get unlimited attorney hours as a benefit from my work. Up to $300/hr. So I have legal protection.

I did buy the DR book as well. She was digging through my room looking for leverage and saw it. I honestly don't know what she would find. She thinks my past mistakes that everyone knows about would make me look bad. I have no concern with looking bad because everyone in my life sees who I am now. Everyone but her. I am going to IC Wednesday. I may need to see the doctor as well. I am having really bad nightmares and insomnia. I know she has insomnia. She is right above me. At least I'm in the MBR.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
D Filed: March 27, 2019
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 2
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SoTorn,

I just read your story. You seem to know the lingo around here, and I imagine you even predict some of the advice you will get. Your WW definitely has the WW script done pat.

I think you need to read the validation links. You need to avoid getting sucked into arguments with her and this will help. Consequences are tough when divorce is not on the table. But you do need to create consequences for her.

I would make myself scarce if I were in your shoes. GAL when she is home. You can do that with and/or without the kids.

Has your W said she wants a divorce? I didn't see that mentioned.

You need to stop the pressure. You don't seem to be too bad on pressuring her, but it seems like you have pressured some. MWD lists a bunch of different forms of pressure in the Divorce Remedy book.

As for moving out, only you can decide that. You'd have to talk to an attorney or two first. I'm of the opinion that the person who wants out should get out. Anyways, sorry you are here. I've been where you are, it started earlier this year for me. I'll tell you that the best thing for me and my situation was stopping all pursuit and GAL. It makes you feel better, it makes the WAS wonder.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Also,

don't completely ignore her. I don't think you're there yet. But definitely stop with the loving husband type of texts. Good mornings, how are yous, and I miss you's are for loving wives - not cheating wives.

Don't let her see the DR book and clear your browsing history. I've always posted from an incognito window personally.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by SoTorn
...Long time lurker, finally signed up. Desperately trying to save my marriage and family....

Welcome. Sorry you find yourself in this sitch.

Quote
The biggest issue I need help with right now is that my wife is still in contact with OM. She hides in the bathroom. I told her that her remaining in contact in this home is disrespectful.
What is the rest of your boundary? What action will you take if she continues?


Quote
Should I move out and take the kids now?
No. Stay in the house.



I am not sure how much of my quote threads you have read, but I world start here and dig deep into them:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2045336#Post2045336


I wish you well.




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Originally Posted by SoTorn
Should I completely ignore her?
No.

Quote
Or is it ok to be cordial
Yes. Treat her like a hostess at a restaurant.


Quote
and send texts for good morning and goodnight?
No this is pursuit. She has disrespected you.

Quote
third is that she gets a good jolt on the consequences
This is what you want to happen. All at once. The quicker the better. Collect all you options. Think. Make a decision. take action.

Quote
I may call another attorney just to see what I have to do. One good thing is that I get unlimited attorney hours as a benefit from my work. Up to $300/hr. So I have legal protection.
Get a list of quiestions and protect yourself legally. Understand your legal rights.

Quote
I did buy the DR book as well. She was digging through my room looking for leverage and saw it.
No biggy. We recommend keeping it to yourself.

Quote
I am going to IC Wednesday.
Good decision.


Quote
I may need to see the doctor as well. I am having really bad nightmares and insomnia.
Yes. Meds help during this. Keeps you level headed. I had a pill that let me sleep 8 hours straight. OMG that was the best.

Quote
At least I'm in the MBR.
Perfect.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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SoTorn Offline OP
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Thanks everyone.

Yes when the PA started she started saying she wanted to separate and end things but without the D word. However, now that I caught her she is saying she wants a divorce. She was gas lighting me badly. She felt that even though I had asked her to be truthful, me having pinpointed the truth without proof, about having an A with OM, that her gas lighting and him being out of state was enough to keep me feeling like I was just insecure. She was absolutely shocked that I hired a PI. She actually yelled at me "I can't live with you because I can't trust you now that you had me followed"

I responded with "wow, you actually feel that I wronged you by catching you cheating"

Prior to confrontation i had removed exactly 50% of our liquid assets into a new account under my name. My attorney advised me of that because she was threatening to take the kids, the house, our money etc. In New Mexico its 50/50 no matter what.

I get all the usual statements and questions when we do speak. "Why do you still love me?", "How do you still love me?" "This is not fixable" " we were already done" "If I were happy with a good husband I wouldn't have even thought about this."

Rewriting of history "you never helped with the kids" "you never cleaned the house" "you never ADD HERE"
Yes I have a very difficult time not going into pursuit mode. I miss my wife badly. More so because we were still for the most part getting along, she would still come home and hug me, kiss me and was intimate with me, and within two months we are now here.

My boundaries I have told her were that she needs to end the affair. I told her that every day she is in this affair she hurts me and her family. I told her that if she wants a divorce she needs to do it because I don't want that. I told her that its disrespectful that she is still speaking with OM, especially in our home and that if she can't cut it off, she needs to leave.

I told her that if she doesn't prove she cut it off, or if she truly does not wish to reconcile and will not end the affair that I will be moving out with the children. For example if she just sits around and does nothing and plans business trips anywhere I will assume that he is going to be there since I know he feels she is his now. If she does that I will leave with the kids. Pretty much if she wont end it then her consequence is her family leaving her.

Legally both parents have to agree that the other parent can take the kids. Unless there is something to protect the kids from. I don't feel that this is a safe environment for them because she is not emotionally stable. She is having mood swings where she will attempt to take interest in the kids lives, but then just criticizes them for not living up to her expectations. She was quite a drinker as well but then she started to hide it. Has only been drinking before I get home or up in the room. Tossed out her huge wine cork collection.

She even threatened to get me fired if I told her job about their lack of integrity. I will try and get ahold of the same attorney tomorrow so I leave. I want to leave while she is out of town. I believe that the only consequence she would truly notice would be me moving out with the kids and then she would be in our big house alone. But I see that a lot of responses here warn not to move out.

What can I do to interrupt her "have my cake and eat it too" mentality. Another worry is that she is visiting her father. Her father had an A and abandoned them when they were little to move with his OW and to pursue his job. She literally repeated what her father did less abandoning us. But I honestly think she is considering just saying " screw it all, nobody wants me here anyway "

If I don't move out the only "consiquences" left are me telling OMs wife and reporting them to her integrity line". My poor children. They miss their momas much as I do.


M:16
T:21
H(me) 38
WW: 38
S11 D16 D19
Red Flags of A: March 2018
ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018
BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018
D Filed: March 27, 2019
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Last edited by Cadet; 11/14/18 06:58 PM.

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