Married 12 years, 2 kids. Wife gave up job to put me through school and had the kids along the way. Things seemed to be going smoothly until this summer. We went on vacation ans upon the return, W tells me she wants to separate and is in love with a family friend. It turns out this was strictly an EA.
I move out, file divorce then move back in to the guest room 2 weeks later. I initially don't know how to handle things then wise up and deflect any attempt to anger me.
We argue like cats and dogs for 2-3 weeks then suddenly start hanging out again. I stated helping more around the house and with the kids. Along comes 3-4 sexual encounters and going out on dates. Then I move back to the bedroom and we completely rekindle, put wedding rings back on and talk about filing a nonsuit for the divorce. It is filed, but just before processing i find she is still talking to the OM. She wanted to meet him in person to say goodbye. This stalls things because I found out by snooping in her phone and she doesn't trust me again.
Reading the common 6 stages of MLC I think she's in between withdrawal and acceptance based on past behaviors.
Here's the current situation.
Taking a "step back" in the relationship to see how it goes. We are both in individual counseling and hope to start couples sessions in the next month. She has been fighting mental illness (depression and/or bipolar) for years, but doesn't want to admit it.
She says marriage and family are the best thing for us but may want to be out on her own. Will not give a simple "yes" when prompted the question if she wants it to work.. She's been a SAHM for 8 years and wants to work so she can contribute. She swears it's not a death sentance for the relationship. When we arrived back together I admittedly smothered her with affection. It may have been too much. Some days are hot and some are cold. There is no sex or kissing currently. We are in the same bed and she has not asked me to leave. I was telling her I love her periodically but have stopped. I have tried peeling back on hand holding and hugging but she still allows it. We still go out on "dates" but little or no affection. She occasionally reverts back to earlier phases but quickly (in a day or two) reverts back to current phase and all seems ok. She has not talked to the OM in over a month. I hope for the best but am planning for the worst.
Some questions:
Would a MLC wife act this way if she knew she dis not want the marriage?
How effective is completely stopping all affection if she still allows it?
Do counselors typically pick up on MLC?
I plan on being supportive for as long as I can. I love her dearly and fear she will spiral out of control if I leave her.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Sorry you find yourself in this place in life. It is shocking and disorienting. First this may be hard to hear, but she is most likely nowhere near withdrawal or acceptance. Sounds like she is in early stages and is fighting the inner turmoil. What you are eeeing is cycling. So first and foremost detach and stop looking for signs. If you don’t you will find yourself whiplashed and thrown around emotionally.
Give her as much space as she needs. In fact try matching her exactly as how she approaches you. If she seems distant pull back, if she emotionally gets close match her and no more. Have no expectations, demand nothing, and show her no pain or concern. No “us” talk. She probably has a lot of inner pressure and anything you do will feel like pressure.
Having said that nothing you do will have much impact on what she is going through, she will need space and time. And despite the fact that you were most likely the person who helped her now you no longer can do that. Read the links above and learn as much as you can. And settle in for a long ride, stop trying to see how far along she is, it may be a longer process than you want right now.
As for therapists most are not aware of MLC, so beware. Find one who is and understands it rather than dismisses it as pop psychology. This will most likely be one that is older. Also marriage consoling is not productive, but if she is willing to go to individual but with a therapist wh can detect she is in a mid life crises may help. One that doesn’t realize this may do more harm.
The stages of MLC are just a guideline and timeline for the emotionally turmoil that crisis people are in. Each person is unique, therefore, their crisis will be unique because of their personalities and childhood experiences. My personal opinion is that your wife has slowly been entering into crisis mode and she's still waffling about staying versus leaving. From your posting, I do not see much in the way of replay. As the stages are linear, they can bounce back and forth from anger to withdrawal and back again. Depression is the main ingredient of MLC and when she does hit the really dark depression, she will withdraw from everyone and everything that she held near and dear. She's not done that thus far. When they have a crisis, it is because they weren't allowed to go through the normal "growing periods", i.e., 20, 30, 40, etc. We each go through this and if not allowed, well...a larger crisis will take place down the road. Also, MLC is about revisiting the past, a past that will take them back to the time where they were emotionally stunted. This can happen when an authority figure does not show them admiration or recognize them for what they've accomplished or who they are. It could stem from abuse of any kind...but they have to go back to that time, revisit it and face their demons before they can begin to grow up and heal from those things.
So, what do you do? Give her plenty of space and no pressure. Do not pursue. No expectations as the woman you are dealing w/is now the exact opposite of the woman you use to know, i.e., mirror image. Has the spending by her ramped up? If not, it very well may...so watch your bank and credit card accounts. As for her spiraling out of control...if she is in crisis, she will do it no matter if you are there or not. There is nothing you can do to stop it once it begins. If you attempt to snap her out of it, she may come back to reality for a bit, but eventually she will enter it again and that time will be far worse.
I would suggest that you attempt to keep the focus on you and your children. Find things to keep yourself busy and just give your wife the time and space she needs. She may not show it, but she does feel guilty and ashamed for what she's doing...but it is something that she has to go through in order to grow up.
As for counselors recognizing MLC, many of them are aware of "changes in one's personality", but MLC is not a recognized disorder by the medical society.
As for showing affection to her...follow her lead. Actions always speak louder than words.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I've had time to think of a broader timeline of unhappiness.
June 2016 we move out of state. Denial: stops taking interest in cooking, family activities, pours resources into fixing up new house. Family Notices shed changed but cant place how.
Fall 2016: Anger: fights break out left and right. They escalate and are frequent. Extremely irritable, mentions feeling stuck and trapped and entertains getting a job.
Spring 2017 Replay: EA begins with family friend. Starts smoking cigarettes and marijuana occasionally. Jan 2018: says we need to separate and shes out of love with me. We work on things which seem to be getting better by spring. Things are stagnant but we march on with "normalcy" July 2018: withdrawn from family/friends for months. final bomb is dropped. I dont love you, get out of the house, I'm moving on with the family friend. No chance at fixing it. Family friend is 40 and lives with parents, has no job, does drugs, smoke like a chimney, anti government sovereign citizen. She feels he is her kindred spirit and soul mate, and is ok for children to be around. She is high class, wont even go to grocery store without being dressed up. Family is very upset and nobody can talk any sense into her.
Summer 2018: Depression: after I move in we have many heavy conversations. She feels like her life has been wasted and shes a failure. Marriage is a failure, kids will be failures. She wanted to be left alone, was secretive with phone and computer, locking bedroom door, etc...still did not want to talk about her problems. I was still the brunt for EVERYTHING. She has 3-4 horrifying, catastrophic breakdowns over the course of the month. Admits she is depressed and has thi gas she needs to work out. Her parents divorced when she was 3 and it took a huge toll on her. Was looking for a job then puts on hold as feelings start to change.
Withdrawal? August: things are better. We put house on market and reconnect. We go out for meals, sit out by the pool for hours every night talking and laughing. We get closer and closer, occasionally having sex. Still no kissing or "I love you" She meets with EA and sets up stage to end it.
Sept: goes to family members house for 1 week break. We flirt, text back and forth and she comes back stating she loves me, did soul searching and knows being together is best. Periodically asks if we moved to fast. I state we did it organically with no pressure and can work out kinks in counseling.
Oct: things going well. She has behavioral change, I snoop on phone and find she wants to meet with EA, and they've had a secret meeting spot and met 3-4 times during initial phases. She says loves me, wants it to work but we need to take step back and reevaluate, as I violated her trust. We took vacation together and did well. Later in month, she mentions work again. I stupidly ask if it's for her to be on her own and the lots of hell opened with irrational thoughts. Bankruptcy to get out of debt, struggling in a low paying job to teach herself lesson, focuses talk on negativity. Next day everything is fine.
This MLC journey is definitely not a sprint...but a marathon. You will need to dig deeper for patience and understanding. Read all that you can on MLC and depression. Visit the other threads because each and every poster has something to offer and you just might find some "pearls of wisdom" that will help you while you are on your journey.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Ive read a lot of stories here and many of them are slightly different
A DB coach once told me to notice the behaviors that pull them Closer as well,l as the ones that push them away This way I could practice the ones that seem to help with the R
Its hard to really pin down where we stand with the MLCer especially when she keeps expressing the desire to work at it and is willing to be with you- I don't have any experience with that end because when My XH left , he moved in with A partner, eventually M her and D her. But there was never any talk of ever coming back-
Job and Cadet probably know everything there is to know about MLC, You will see the road she takes, but it usually takes time if it is true MLC 2-7 years
As time passes, you will get information about her choices...In the mean time, it is best to focus on you and kids be supportive and cordial, helpful and follow her lead-
Be positive maybe take up a new hobby-You will know more later
It seems she could turn in any direction and she seems confused-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
So sorry to see you here, Hamburg. And to see you doing what all of us do -- think that the stages will last much shorter for your W because she is different. I was sure of that for my H. He was so wonderful and loved his family so much, I was sure that his would be shorter than two years. I'm heading toward year six now, and I would say that he had made some progress through the tunnel and then went back to replay this past spring and rebombed me. He just filed, and is doing it a horribly vicious and brutal way but refuses to leave.
No one is telling you that to scare you or make you feel bad, but to encourage you to stop noticing what she is doing. It's incredibly hard to do. From this side of the screen, it looks like you are extremely focused on everything she does and says and looking for signs that you won't have to suffer anymore. This will only hurt you even more than the suffering will hurt. (And it hurts, I am so sorry to admit it!) The best way to protect yourself is to assume this is going to take years, and make your own life. Don't notice the EA. The guy is such a loser, trust that she will figure that out in time. It's harder when the OP is not so clearly a loser, but even then, anyone who would be an OP is a disgusting person to begin with, and knows only the worst side of your spouse.
If she turns out to be a quick MLCer, wonderful. But if not, you can release yourself from the slavery of watching her every move/sign far sooner than most of us did.
If you are Christian, I recommend signing up for Rejoice Marriage Ministries. You will see a lot of cynical comments here, or doom and gloom. A Christian perspective is a good antidote to keep a clear head through this h#ll.
Last edited by Gerda; 10/29/1810:27 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
I am sorry you find yourself here. There are some very kind and compassionate people here with much hard earned wisdom willing to share their knowledge. You are among friends.
I will add my view and agreement with the others. As long as their is another person involved, your spouse is in replay. They have to sort out what ever troubles are driving them to these fixes. Your W has displayed quite a few replay behaviours so far.
This is a marathon and it takes a while. There are averages and statistics, but really no one can know when the MLCer will exit replay and start towards finding their way out. They may unfortunately bounce back and forth for a while also.
You have stated that W set up stage to end things with EA. Then a few months later started up again. Perfectly normal, don’t loose hope. Breaking up is hard to do. She will need to purge him and that will take time. Unfortunately, there is no way to know if she is actually working towards that or still running.
To your specific questions MarvinF and job gave excellent answers.
My own take.
An MLC W does not have a normal way they behave. No set behaviour to tell us what they are thinking or planning. They are confused, and running on pure emotions. Their behaviour will be all over the place. You cannot count on it to mean anything. Your W will adamantly mean and defend what she believes - right up till the moment she doesn’t. An MLCer can change views quickly and frequently, it is dizzying to attempt to keep up with them.
Asking the effectiveness of anything during MLC is pointless. Nothing you say or do will have much effect on her journey. She must go through this on her own time and on her own path. We really cannot speed it up.
From my limited experience most, by far, of the counsellors do not believe in or understand MLC. Most people do not. Until you experience this, see it up close, it sounds so unbelievable. Aside from places like this forum where LBS gather, heal, and share knowledge, folks just don’t know.
I do like your plan to support her during this. Remember you did not break her, therefore you cannot fix her. Give her space and time - lots of each. Focus on you and your two kids.
From what you have posted, to me it looks like W started to run / replay in spring 2018. Most times bomb drop signals the start of replay. The time up to then looks like the emotional turmoil that a trigger event started. Understand this is not your fault, she has damage deep inside which was destined to come out. This would have happen with or without you.
I do hope you continue post, share your insights, and ask questions. These are probably not the responses you were hoping for, I am sorry.
All these people are good honest people who deeply care. They have a lot of wisdom that was earned with sometimes a very high cost. I consider myself blessed to be within their company.
Take some time to consider what has been suggested.
I am looking forward to speaking with you again.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
