ok folks - been reading the threads here for about 6 weeks and decided to post.
Here is the background:
Been together with the W for 17 years. Married for 14 with twin 11 year old boys. Had a great marriage and did'nt realize anything was amiss except as I look back we started to become roommates over the last year. Me travelling about 9-12 days out of town a month and kids in all types of after school stuff. So even when I was home we were passing each other. Anyways I digress - started out that she came crying one day and told me she couldn't keep going on and we needed to find us again. For 2 weeks we had an awesome time making time for us without always being with kids. After two weeks she freaked out one day and told me 2 magical weeks did not make up for the last year. Next day she took off her wedding ring. 2 days later came BD (3 months ago now) of EA and kiss of someone she was talking about our marriage problems with (had no idea). She broke it off and 5 days later wanted divorce.
So the spewing starts and the rewriting of our marriage history - ILYBNILWY bomb as well. Took me about a month of believing I was not a good husband until I realized this was not the girl I spent the last 17 years with. Started digging and learned about MLC and been doing everything possible to read up on it.
So here I am today - W was cycling a lot between "monster" and her, but in the last 4 weeks she has stopped talking about divorce. She has started crying a bit more and telling me that she feels like something is inside her she can't pin down that is eating her up. Has started to talk more positive about our old marriage and telling me she wants to be happy with me again, but she just can't find those feelings right now.
So she is moving out in 7 days - got a place of her own she is renting and taking some stuff. Feels very guilty about taking much of anything. We have been in separate rooms for 3 months, but since last Saturday (4 days now) she has slept next to me in our bed. Not a cuddle but in the same bed. Which is blowing me away because 2 months ago was" I cant be in same room with you, I don't want you to touch me, etc, etc"
So my question is why the big shift in behavior lately and the crying and the sleeping in our bed 5 days before she is moving out?? Feel like she has been in a low cycle MLC mood for a while now - i mean "monster" still pops out but for much shorter of a time. Seems like she is looking for lots of validation that I still want and love her too - which I am trying to give her when its appropriate - no clinging or begging for 2 months now - still do lots of "DIM" work since we have been at home together.
And next question is so how do I work this when she moves out? We will be exchanging the kiddos every other week so I am going to have to contact her, but I need to stay relatively "DIM".
Looking for suggestions and sorry if this is to much info.
Last edited by job; 10/24/1810:10 PM. Reason: added spaces between paragraphs
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
There are many kind and compassionate people here with much hard earned wisdom who can offer much guidance and support.
So why the big shift in her behaviour. The confusion from her of now sleeping in same bed, but two months ago can’t be in same room and don’t touch me, are signs of how mixed up she is. In MLC her emotional state is a wreck and cranked to 11, she will jump back and forth until she most likely runs in an effort to “find her happiness”.
As for why. Well that is the difficult part. Hard for us to know why they do what they do, when they don’t even know. Perhaps guilt, saying goodbye, old feelings surfacing, it is hard to tell. My own W cuddled next to me all afternoon playing cards with the family before, hours later, she blew up her’s and everyone’s lives at supper.
As for how do I work this when she moves out. You focus on you and your children. Nothing you say or do will have much effect on W’s journey - I noticed that you are not begging or pleading, good for you. Be kind and compassionate, speaking to her civilly especially in front of the children.
She has a long road to journey, and so do you and your kids. Look after and protect what you can, you and your children. You are the sane and stable parent now, it helps to keep that in mind when wondering how do I work this out.
KF, you are looking for understanding and I believe that is a good thing. Start to turn your focus on to what you need to.
Post often, ask any questions you like, vent, journal, whatever - we are here for you. And don’t worry about too much info, you have quite a ways to go before you reach that level.
Stay strong. Keep focused.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
In the moments where she spews and cannot stand you
She really feels that anger
In the moments she is nice and wants to sleep in your bed
She really feels that she wants to be closer to you
Some compare it to a teenager
Others compare it to a mental illness
My experience is that the MLC spouse really has some issues to work out
They often have nothing to do with the LBS
But you are the closest to the MLC spouse
So you get the most collateral damage
And what to do when she moves out
Detach and focus on herself and your kids
She is going to do what she is going to do
She may not move out
She may move out forever
She may move out and come back
That is why they say one day at a time
None of us know the future
So do take care of yourself
Physically mentally emotionally socially
Follow your conscience
Talk to a DB coach
Talk to a friend who has been through something similar
Get the support you need
You have already been through a lot
And it may get worse before it gets better
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
KeepFig, what Gordie and DnJ said are so true, the feelings and emotions of our Midlife spouses are shifting so quick, they are quick enough to confuse the left behind spouses. Right now, what you could do is try to calm down (which is pretty hard) and focus on you and the children. You may still love her but please from distance. You may be friendly but please set the boundaries. Please also learn that this whole process takes 'time'. It will be longer than we expected but you will survive. Do come to the forum when you have questions, there are great people here who could help with the midlife crisis issues. Please take care !!!
I have a DB coach and he helped me understand by explaining that my H had fallen into the white water rapids. That he was being tossed around and turned upside down. I was still in the boat and couldn't help him or I would too end up submerged in the rapids. BUT I kept looking over the side and insisting that he answered my questions about whether he wanted chicken or beef for his tea.
This is what it apparently feels like to be in an MLC. They cannot answer your questions or act like you want them to and when they can't even make those simple decisions it can be very humiliating. Humiliation never saved a marriage.
So you can choose to jump off the boat and perish yourself or sit steady and safe in your boat and hope that she finds a way to save herself and climb into your boat.
How difficult is it to keep your boat steady? Very! But it is the only way. You will be saved and she may be saved also.
Separation is difficult for it's own reasons but believe me that you could do it all wrong and still pursue even from a different location. It's just geography. It doesn't matter where she lives because SHE has to find a way out of her rapids. So, I see it as an advantage and it helps me remain distant and pleasant when there has to be contact. I personally, would find that very difficult if he was still here. Enjoy your peace and calm away from Ws turmoil. It is hers to own and sort out.
I agree with the others. . The MLCer is confused.. They want their freedom.. They want to have fun They may be conflicted they still love us too But the pull to play is great..they cant fight it They give up adult responsibilities to have fun I think they give up a lot Some give up their kids too Some spend money beyond their means They may hook up with younger friends, new clothes, new cars, jobs,tattoos, hair changes, gym ect.. Some turn to affair partners, drugs, alcohol or any other addictions to ease their pain The W you know is no longer in control.. The MLCer is in control and you will see glimpses of both people in her.
Usually they don't want help-Some will go to therapy and usually they stop or don't do the needed inner work to heal Most MLCers go through the tunnel into replay(fun and freedom)
This leads them to more pain but there is nothing we can do to help except be the strong rock -wait and watch Be there and support and validate when appropriate be the adult parent the kids need and do our individual inner work to heal ourselves
You wont know what she chooses now- some will return Some will not But It is not the fault of the LBS.. many of them have unresolved childhood issues that need to be addressed to heal. but most wont do this work because it is painful
keep posting and take care of you Lots of good information is here to learn about MLC
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I appreciate all the feedback folks. It does help to hear others. Tough day today. She is moving the last of the furniture she's taking. I couldn't be there to see it. She will be gone tomorrow. Told me last night again that she loved me but just couldn't find the feelings she used to have. Said she's sad to leave but feels she has too. She needs time for herself . Told the kids she was sad but it wwasnt forever. I told her I didn't think she would come back once she left. I know I shouldn't have said that but was vulnerable in the moment. Wants to come to the house on Halloween to take the kids with me. Going to let her for the boys. She still thinks she is going to come by and see the dogs and kids on my weeks before I get home. I told her she would have to schedule anything like that with me first. It made her very sad but it's boundary I have to set. Going to stop all calls or texts and try and go dim for the next several weeks. Wish me luck
It hurts when they say and do things that are out of the ordinary for them. However, the way she feels right now are her feelings to own. They tend to say the words "they have to leave" because they feel smothered and think that they will die if they stay. That is the depression talking.
Once she is gone, make the place your own, i.e., move furniture around, change up the pictures on the walls, paint/remodel, etc. The holidays are coming, make they extra special for you and the kids and it's also a good time to make new memories.
I'm glad you are allowing her to come over for Halloween, but you are right, it's time to set boundaries about coming into your space once she's gone. Set up a visitation schedule from the beginning and see how it goes. You can always tweak it if it doesn't work out for you.
Hang in there.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
You have a good plan going dim. Give her space and time, she needs both and lots of each.
She is probably going to appear and behave confused over the next little while until she fully enters the tunnel and starts running. She will say and do things and cause lots of stress. Try to relax and just breath. You will get through this.
As much as possible I would keep your expectations at zero. It is a bit of a strange concept at first - expect nothing and anything - just don’t focus on it. Focus on you and your boys.
I like the idea of having her over for Halloween - for the boys. She may be on time, or late. She may be angry, happy, sad, who knows. Try not expect the evening to go the way you planned it. Just go with the flow and make slight course corrrections if needed - for example getting out on time for kids to go trick or treating.
I know you are thinking about what you said during that vulnerable moment, maybe even beating yourself up a bit. DON’T!
No one thing you say will make or break this MLC.
It is a difficult idea in the beginning - nothing you say or do will affect her, and everything you say or do will affect her. It is paradoxical, and true.
So, be the best version of you possible. Look after yourself and your kids, and be the best you will be. Do it for you. Focus on that.
Best of luck KF.
I am thinking about you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
You found an amazing place to vent. Go to divorce groups and they also have dg4k Your kids will also need support.
Remember about you amd and kids. Is going be hard but we LBS must do.
I remember finding my d10 journal and d10 Blamed herself If I was smarter If I didn't talk back to mom If I got better grades, btw my d is straight A..
I knew my trio's where hurting I then realized Time to put my super hero cape on and not taken off I shifted to US not just me. We started GALWK, get a life with kids This help Us me seeing them smile was my best medication I needed And don't get me wrong I still have my moments but I have some amazing People here. To many to name but them simply writing to me helps me so much.
I hope they all know that.
So you are in a safe place to vent and speak your mind, your anger your sadness We are here.
But best advice be that DAD, W will regret of losing. It sounds crazy but I am a woman and everyone in school knows me as The lesbian, single hot mom and W was a fool to leave me.
I have had other moms ask me to dinner with all kids I was never this involved in my kids life I was so involved in Work, Making money, New car New clothes, My trio's having it all. And we still ended like this.
The best feeling you will get when your kids will look at you and say.
Mom/dad you where fun but now you a better Mom/dad I love this new person. I get butterflies in my stomach hearing them.
Is hard now easier said then done but you will get through and get there.
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
Well she moved out yesterday. I called her to see if she was done so I could come home. I knew it would be too hard to watch it. We were supposed to take the kids together to the haunted hayride that night but I just couldn't do it knowing she left. Told her we could do it next weekend if she still wanted - she did invite me which was weird (first time really she has asked me to do something with her and the boys). Anyways I was kind of short on the phone.
When I got home, I was a mess. To walk in and see sofa and dining room set gone - no beds or any furniture in their rooms anymore - it hurt bad, but I mustered with my brother and moved a futon to one room and the old guest bed to the other, so they would have a place to sleep - especially since they are spending the week with me starting today. I texted her that I was disappointed she took the dining room set since she said she was going to leave it and she started texted me back I told her she could take it - which I never did, but seems like she forgets a lot of things lately (probably classic MLC - i remember after not too long after BD she completely rewrote our marriage saying how awful it was for so long, etc, etc. And then like 6 weeks ago she was talking about how good most our marriage was and she didn't regret any of it except the last year we were like roomates. When I challenged her on what she said before, she told me she never said any such thing - and I was like when the one you love says something like that which cuts so deep - you don't forget). Anyways I texted her back it didn't matter and she started texting me asking why I hated her so much. I told her I didn't and she kept texting me when I wouldn't reply asking why I was so short and what was wrong. What's wrong?? You just walked out of my life - are you kidding me. I didn't write that obviously but told her "I was fine - just hit me harder than I anticipated" She told me it was hard on her too, but she understood. Well with all the moving she forgot to take pants for the boys and wanted to come back in the morning before church to get them pants.
Now it gets better - she calls me this morning to tell me she is coming and starts off with she doesn't have hot water in her new place so she is running late and won't have time to get boys to church and if I was going. I just couldn't go to church with them today - too hard, so I told her no. She asked if she could still come by and get some stuff because she left some stuff here. She got all upset when I told her I put the majority of it in the garage. Then she started to ask me if she could take the boys to hockey on Thursday since I normally don't get home until they have to be there at 6:00 and I told her I already made arrangements with someone to get them there and I will meet them (my brother), and then she started to cry - I told her I would see her later.
When she got here she was very cold and I could see her starting to cry as she was loading her car with more stuff from the garage. I asked her why the tears and she told me that she would never use the kids against me. I was like I am not using them against you. This is what YOU wanted. The kids and I didn't want you to run out on us. You told me we had our own weeks and now your upset that you don't get to see the kids on my week??? Told her sorry but this was her doing not mine. She then went on about how I could come over and see them whenever if it was her week and she wouldn't do that - my guess is this was so she could see them whenever she wants - But AM I WRONG here in keeping them when its my time? She wants no responsibility or consequences for her actions - like she can leave and still get to see the kids and the dogs whenever she wants when I am not around. I told her if she wanted to come to the house she would have to notify me and schedule it first - I feel like this is one of the only boundaries I can control right now. I told her I was sorry she felt that way, but that's how it was going to go. Then she said she knew I was hurt but that she wasn't trying to hurt me on purpose - okay that makes me feel better! Then she hugged me and cried and left.
So then I had to drop the kids off anyways to her new place for 3 hours to go to an engagement I could not get out of. I brought over extra clothes for the boys and when I was unloading the car and giving the clothes to the boys to bring inside she came out and I had one extra load. She said aren't you coming inside. I said NO. Seriously - I don't want to see our stuff in your new house or where you will probably bringing in new relationships (as MLCs do). I just didn't want the visual. She got a bit offended I think. I told her to drop the kids back off at 6:00 and I would be there shortly after. Anyways I went inside and was typing in my gps and she came back out and knocked on my window. I put it down and she proceeded to give me a box of cookies for the boys because she "doesn't want them to go bad". I told her - aren't you bringing the boys back to the house in an hour to get their costumes for the church trick or treat and she said yes - and I was like well why would I put them in my hot car for three hours when you could just drop them at the house?? She agreed - so was that a trying to validate and see if I was angry with her by coming back out of the house to talk to me???
Well tough night. First one just me and the boys with her gone. And it irks me to no end that she knows the boys go to bed at 9:00 and never calls them to say goodnight. When I am gone I always make sure I call. Instead - sometimes she texts them "i love you more than the world" but always 15-20 minutes after their bed time, so they never see it. And they are definitely hurting. Both prayed with me tonight out loud and all they wanted was for God to bring mom back to dad again. It crushes me - I don't even know what to say except we are all trying are best and that she loves them and so do I and its not their fault. And they always tell me "we know you still love mom too" and I tell them I do. I just pray to God to please answer my children's prayers even if he can't hear mine.
It's going to be a long haul folks. I just hope I am strong enough. Especially since I still haven't gotten divorce papers and thought she would definitely give them too me when she moved out. She filed the papers with her lawyer 60 days ago, and still nothing. She brings it up every now and then, but not lately in the last 4 weeks. Which is even harder because I am not sure what's going on. Early on she said she didn't want to separate and get it done as fast as possible because she is "superstitious" - which she isn't at all and that she wanted to start 2019 as a new person. But since filing I have heard about it less and less. She is Irish Catholic with parents married 45 years until her father passed 7 years ago - her family doesn't believe in divorce and I know she never did. And her mom is dead set against it - she has been saying since day one to separate for a while and see how that goes - so I don't know. I have tried to keep from talking to her family at all, but I do know she doesn't get along with her mom at all (she is classic critical and non validating of her daughter her whole life) but they have been talking at least once a week and my W said the other day I hope my mom's check comes soon because I am running out of money. So I am wondering if mom is giving her money to be on her own for a while with the caveat of separating - but I just don't know.
So I wait and I try and go DIM. Still have to see her for Halloween on Wednesday, and then probably going on the haunted hayride with her on Friday. So still going to see her twice this week. But in the meantime, no initiating texts or calls and only responding after ample time goes by. We shall see and wish me luck folks.
My heart hurts for what you and your kids are going through.
You made it through that first quiet night of her being out of the house. I am glad your brother is coming to stay with you for a week, that will help.
I can see that you are working on understanding this MLC nightmare, and I believe you are making great strides in that area. Understanding and living it are two different things, I think you are strong enough for both. It will be so hard, I won’t lie, very hard, continue to be strong.
You know that you need to go dim, for you and her. I do agree with sticking to the schedule regarding the children. Do not give in, she is baiting you into a fight. Just keep to the schedule and put the kids first. Of course the odd time schedules can be bend, but do not allow “you can come over anytime during my week”. That is not punishment, you dear KF need the space to heal.
All of us here have gone through something similar to what you are experiencing. I would not wish this on anyone. Please take care of yourself and your children.
I, and so many others, will be here for you. Share your successes, your pains, your confusion. Ask any questions, vent, anything you like. From my experience, this place has people who know what you are, and will be, going through, an invaluable resource.
There is much to pass along, but one can only take so much at one time, and I am running late again.
Go dim, focus on and protect you and kids, be easy on yourself, and just breathe. You will get there, you have time, don’t worry or rush.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ has given you excellent advice. Now, it is time to go dim. Do not be so quick in responding to her texts/emails. She doesn't need to see that you are sitting there waiting for them. She needs to realize that life goes on and you are busy doing other things.
As for the schedule for the children...stick to it. Do not waffle because she will then see that she can do whatever she wants. She needs to learn that schedules are to be kept and that this is the way it will be if and when a divorce may take place. You are not punishing her by sticking to the schedule.
I think you did quite well last evening and I am also glad your brother is going to stay for a while. You need the support and it's nice having someone there until you can adjust to your family not being there.
You are going to discover that your journey is very difficult, but you can accomplish so much as you walk the path. Do not fall for her "poor me" approach. She will become very good at pulling that card out and when she discovers that she can't use it, she'll become cold and angry. Don't take her bait. She will be looking for ways to bait you into arguments to justify, in her mind, why she had to leave.
Try to remember...she's not the person you knew and loved at the moment because she's the exact opposite (mirror image). Keep your expectations at zero because she will be forgetful, rewrite history and tell some tall tales.
For now, like DnJ posted, be easy on yourself, keep the focus on you and your kids, watch your bank and credit accounts and remember to breathe. There is no need to put a timeline on your healing as it will develop as you walk the path.
We are here for you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
thanks again DnC and job. Like I said always good to hear from others. Well here is the post for today:
So she texted me this am about putting money in the kids account for school lunches about 11am. I didn't think I really needed to respond because it was more of a matter of fact text and I was going to go halves on it later in the day. Since I was going DIM I decided to do other things (took a personal day to buy kids some furniture for their bedrooms). Anyways got caught up and was on the phone about 3pm and I guess she texted me again asking if she could come over to the house to get some stuff from the attic. Well being on the phone I never saw the text and she pulls up to the house (she doesn't know I took the day off) and there I am sitting outside when she pulls up - look on her face was priceless. Because I didn't answer she could come by yet. Anyways she gets out and first thing she says is "didn't you see any of my texts? I texted you a few times today". To which I replied I was busy trying to put together furniture for the boys so they could get their clothes off the floor and was on the phone a bunch - like a nice way of saying you are not my priority anymore - without being mean about it. She was not happy - started in with "you could have at least acknowledge you got the text - said OK or something." Told her sorry she felt that way but I was really busy. So she gets gets cold and angry and starts loading stuff into her car. Gets some stuff from the attic and I asked her if I could help. So I move some stuff into her car for her. So to break the cold ice - she is standing in the garage and I asked her how her day was. She starts telling me about some stuff at work, but I can tell she is thinking other things because start to see her eyes tear up.
So I ask her whats wrong and get this - she starts to tell me she doesn't know why I am so angry with her and feels like I hate her and I don't want to spend time with her. She brings up the fact that I didn't want to go to the haunted hayride Saturday night - which if you see my previous posts was the day she moved out. I told her I just couldn't I was to hurt coming home to see she had walked out of our lives and moved out. That I did want to spend time with her but I was trying to do it on her terms - no pressure. She said "I wouldn't have asked you to go if I didn't want to spend time with you." Then she asked permission if she could still come over for Halloween. I told her of course that I was leaving that decision to her but I would love to spend time as a family. I told her again I didn't want to pressure her and I was doing everything I could for her "happiness" and that I was not angry with her. She then asked if we could still go this weekend to the haunted hayride and again I told her that was entirely up to her, but I would enjoy spending time together if she wanted. Then she told me she told our boys that on her weeks with the kids she wanted to get together at least one day a week and have dinner together. I told her that would be fine. And then told her that I was taking the boys out Thursday night after hockey for dinner if she wanted to join us and she said she would love too. Then she says "I wonder if that's to much. Wednesday for Halloween, Thursday after hockey and then Friday the hayride." I couldn't tell if she was saying that to me or herself or both?? I just told her whatever she wanted to do.
Then she asked if she could hang out five minutes to see the boys when they got home from school. Since I was there I thought it was the right thing to do. She said hi to the boys in the garage and then we walked to her car. She told me she would never ask me to do something with her out of "pity" that if she asked me it's because she really wanted to spend time with me. I told her whatever she wanted to do, but I was doing everything I could to not put any pressure on her - basically ball is your court. I told her even though the situation was not good I did have fun spending time with her the last 2-3 weeks, especially the time we spent just the two of us. She said she really enjoyed it too and that it felt like it had been so long since we just hung out and had fun together laughing and talking. She had tears in her eyes and leaned over and hugged me tight - and of course commented how she couldn't remember how long it had been since she could wrap her arms all the way around me (i've lost 53 pounds in 3 months - divorce diet is not the best but I have taken up running and just ran my first 5k last weekend). Anyway we both laughed and she left.
I am going in with zero expectations this week. If it happens and she joins she does, if not I am not crushed. Ball is in her court. And by the way she texted me three more times tonight about beating my 5k time when she went running tonight. I did reply back and just told her good job but I would get there soon enough.
You handled things just fine. She's feeling the inch a bit in the fact that you aren't jumping to respond to her texts. Well, life goes on and you are busy getting things done for your kids and for yourself. She needs to realize that she is no longer number one on your priority list.
She feels guilty for what she's doing and she thinks you are angry w/her by not doing things w/her...but she needs to learn to understand that you have things to do that do not involve her any longer. You are playing mom and dad to your kids and that takes up a lot of time after you work a job.
Continue to be dim and let her text to her heart's content...but only respond when you are ready to do so. Do not be too chatty about what you are doing...she needs to miss you and be curious about what you are doing.
Hang in there!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
okay so is it just me or am I right to be disappointed? Third night in a row she hasn't called or texted her children to say goodnight. Just sad and all I am going to do is let her fall flat on her face. Kids are really starting to see it and I am sad that they are going to start resenting her, but I got to let her play her own cards. Just frustrating for me seeing how she does this to the kids.
You do not need to let your feelings dictate your actions
But for your own mental health you should acknowledge them
Disappointed angry sad depressed impatient disgusted
Do not stuff your feelings
Be more self aware
I am feeling disappointed right now
I am disappointed that the mother of my children does not call them daily
This disappointment is driven by an expectation
My expectation is that she acts like the w and mother I knew
Aha
She is no longer the w and mother I knew
I am actively trying to let go of that expectation
She does not want to act like a wife
She wants to live separately from me and the kids
But she expects me to act like a husband
And for me and the kids to be available for family time on demand
To return her texts promptly
For me not to be angry with her
Take your eyes off of her for a moment
How do I feel
What do I want
How do I want to live my life now
How do I want to parent my children
What are my expectations of myself
KF: She does not know why you are so angry with her
G: She wants to do anything she wants with no negative consequences
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie is right on the money. Feelings are not good or bad. There just are. Actions taken based on feelings is when good or bad comes into play. So a little more advice.
Do not react to her or her behaviour, respond to it.
Do not be quick in getting back to her, you own feelings will get in the way. Feelings are fleeting, let them settle, then respond from a place of compassion and reason. A pretty good rule is wait 24 hours, maybe even 48 hours before responding, for most things - you’ll know the items (like kids) that require a quicker response.
Again, do not worry about her and her actions. I know very hard in the beginning. Yes three days with out texting or calling good night. Unfortunately that is going to become the new normal for you guys. Be there for your two boys, at eleven years old they are just starting to see thing from their own viewpoint, becoming their own little people.
Young children are egocentric, everything revolves around them, is because of them - in their view of the world. They also do not realize where they stop and you or an authority starts, still developing their own indentity. You know, kids just do what they are told, until they start talking back - ah those years - gosh I hope they stop talking back soon .
So yes they will become resentful. Aren’t you resentful against your W? What she is doing?
You are a grown man with the ability to reason this out and are seeking help here and elsewhere, your children only have you. So, good on you for seeing this. Gently help your children, at their pace, with whatever their problems are at the time. Never break their trust, and keep your word to them - so because what you promise, I will try my best is sometimes a better approach then an absolute promise.
Children personalize this, heck we do also. Even my kids of, at the time, 15,17,19, & 20 blamed themselves for what Mom did. We talked and discussed things, her behaviour gave lots of questions, so no worries on how to bring up a topic. Your goal is to ensure your children know and understand that their Mom’s feelings and actions are not because of them, she owns all her stuff.
Don’t worry KF, your kids have a great role model - You!
I am glad to see you questioning and seeking understanding. That is a great way to solidify your new insights. You will keep getting reminded of certain things, again a very much needed support for the LBS. So, remember to focus on and protect you and your kids. Then start to seek detachment, eventually you will not feel frustrated with her actions, you can’t stop her anyhow, you will get there. For now - focus, and get you and your kids on to the new routines.
You got this.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
You've been give excellent advice...but one more thing...keep your expectations at zero of what you think your wife should or should not be doing. If you keep your expectations at zero, you won't be disappointed at anything she does.
She's a teenager right now and teens don't want responsibility...they want freedom to do as they wish.
Keep the focus on you and your children.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
It is definitely hard to watch our spouses change in such drastic ways especially around the kids We remember when they were the most devoted parents Once in MLC, they become pretty irresponsible with the kids some are worse than others We can only begin to believe it, once we start seeing it over and over
From my experience with my XH, He was attentive for the first year after BD Available for the 2nd, but much less and gone after that
Each person is different, but it is best to become the strong available parent and the kids will usually adjust and continue to thrive well
Try to only say neutral things about her or say nothing to the kids say nothing bad If they want to talk..validate but try not to throw your anger about the situation on them-
Im sorry I know this is hard
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
First thanks again for the advice Gordie, DnJ, Job, and PT. Love your alls words - helps calm me and get me through the day.
okay here's how Halloween went:
She came over early - which was okay because it was raining. She seemed a little defensive at first - I could tell because she didn't just walk in but knocked on the garage door. A little small talk and hugged both the boys. I figured I would lighten the mood and let her see I was in a good mood - and I was (didn't even have to fake it - was having fun with my boys), so I asked her about a contest she was running for "shoeboxes for soldiers". I think she was surprised that I asked her about it - because yes I do listen to everything she says and we had talked about it last week. Her school came in second, but I told her how proud I was of her. She brightened up immensely and we just started talking about stuff. Anyways in the middle of it she just walked over and hugged me and held - first time she's done that and not been crying about something. I was in such shock I almost didn't know what to do - seriously because one, I wasn't expecting it, and two, I had zero expectations. The only good thing was I didn't let my heart get too wrapped up in it, so I was kind of proud of myself. Anyways we just hung out for an hour while it was raining and talked and joked and laughed. The rain stopped and we took the boys out for some trick-or-treating. Joked with each other the whole way - just couldn't stop making each other laugh. In fact we spent more time talking with each other than our boys. Then eggshell moment - some of her students saw us out and one of the little girls said "is this your husband?" and she said "yeah he is". Was a little surprised by that - she didn't even hesitate. Anyways a little later on our walk through the neighborhood, she asked if I was still taking the boys on the haunted hayride this Friday and I told her I was. She asked if she could still go - I asked her if she wanted to and she said absolutely. Then on the way home she asked the boys if they wanted to do "breakfast with santa" which we used to do every year and frankly they are a bit old now, and they weren't sure. I told them we always went for me and mom and just dragged them along and we all chuckled and they said they wanted to go. I didn't say anything, and she says "well your dad didn't say if he wants to go." So I asked her if she wanted me to go and she said "yes if you want too.", so I said sure sounds like fun. Well she said goodbye to the boys and then a little snide remark - probably to test me - about she eventually needed to get her birth certificate and other vital paperwork at some point and then joked that she didn't want me using it to sell on the black market. I let it roll off my back and opened her car door for her and she got in. Told her I hope she had a good time with us and she said she did and I said goodnight. She texted me on the way home something funny and I thanked her for coming tonight and that "ALL of US are glad you did". She responded "it was fun" and that was it.
I will tell you having zero expectations made the night much more enjoyable - because one, I wasn't amped up with expectations, and so my mood and my body language was just calm and fun and relaxed - I was having fun with my kids and I feel like it just rubbed off on her as well. And two, if it went bad, well that was too be expected so it wouldn't have hurt near as much. I think that helped with the hug too because I didn't get all, I don't know the words really, but missing her maybe, or like this was some type of love. Just felt like she was reaching out a bit to test me, to see if she was safe. Not sure but all in all I should sleep okay tonight. Hope everyone else had not a bad night too - signing off KF
Sounds like you and your boys had an enjoyable time. I think your W may have also.
It is not surprising that she seemed a bit defensive or timid at first, she has been out of communication for three days, she probably was wondering who and what she would find on the other side of the garage door.
To me, from your retelling, W appeared to be more of her “old” self, joking, hugging, having fun, even introducing you as her husband. I am sure you can see how confusing that must be for her, her struggling with her, too see which one emerges. Where that is going, and which version will have dominance - well that’s the big question. Keep expectations low and no pressure.
You did very well; zero expectations let that evening be whatever it was going to be, and it went in a good direction. Next time? Who knows. Keep the zero expectations, and just see what happens. I am glad this worked out for you and the kids.
In general there is no “right” way to get through this. Everything here, all the suggestions and advice is for the most important person in all of this, that is you. Of course, it is also geared to give the best chance at divorce busting and reconciliation - however first and foremost it is for you to survive and thrive this. Each of our paths traverse this terrain differently, with many ups and downs, switchbacks, and set backs. We just keep moving forward and eventually get there.
So, in my opinion, your Halloween was great. You had a good time, your kids had a good time. W was reminded of good times, perhaps. The big thing is how you felt, how you handled it. Sounded like there was focus on the important people and some detachment. Very well done!
Keep moving forward, keep focus.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Okay an update on tonight since I just got back and don't want to forget. So we went to the Haunted Hayride tonight. Things were pretty good. We talked the whole ride down (about 40 min) and we had a blast with the boys. Had some burgers there and the boys started talking about Thanksgiving break and that they would be with mom that week. She said they were and I didn't say much of anything. She then asked the boys if Dad could come over for Thanksgiving and we could spend it together. Of course they wanted me too. I just stayed silent. She then turned and said "you don't have to if you don't want or if you have other plans, but I am inviting you over." I told her sure if that's what everyone wanted. Then she said I had to bring the turkey fryer over. So I commented that she only wanted me to come because of how I cook a turkey - just joking. She said that she could cook one too but it wouldn't be as good as mine and that's not why she was inviting me. I just left it at that with a chuckle.
We went and got in line for the haunted hayride and took a family selfie - that was new. We were just talking about stuff and she asks me what cologne I was wearing. Um okay. So I told her it was one I thought she liked, and she said she did. I said really and she said yeah you smell good. Thought that was cool. Then we got on the hayride and she kind of curled in close, but I did not really do anything. She said she was cold, but as soon as we started moving she leaned back into me. First sign of affection she has really shown where she was initiating it. I just went with it and she seemed perfectly content. Anyways a fun night together and we stopped for ice cream on the way home.
Here is where it changed though - and it was my fault - I put on pressure though I didn't realize it at the time. Just as we were about 5 minutes from the house I asked her if she wanted to tuck the boys into bed since she was here and it was their bed time. She said "sure", but I could tell it was apprehensive the way she said it. When we walked into the house 5 minutes later, she called both the boys over and said goodnight and was like rushing to get out of the house. So fast she forgot some of her stuff. I told her thanks for inviting me and that we all had a good time. She said she did too and jetted out of here. I think she either felt guilty being in the house and seeing where she used to live and what she was doing to us and knowing she had a good time, that she had to get out - just too much pressure. It was okay - I understood, I just felt bad that I put her in that situation when I was just trying to be considerate to give her a chance to tuck her kids into bed. I still had a great time and I know she had some memories to take with her - I just enjoyed the time I got to spend with her. Any comments or suggestions please let me know. Again I wasn't broken when she left, so that's a win.
Also wanted to add that I was thinking back to the spewing and it's been at least 5 weeks I think since she has spewed anything bad at all. I mean I get the snide comments every now and then - you know the it's all about me and let's see if I can get a reaction, but nothing real horrible at all. Any ideas?? Do the low cycles really last that long? I also found out tonight that she hasn't been sleeping and is very tired. She told me she bought a box fan to help make noise to fall asleep and still has a rough time of it. An done last thing I forgot to add and I don't know where this plays into it, but my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer about a month after BD. I know this adds to her feelings of being scared - since I am, even though the type she has is 95% curable. She has to have surgery in about 2 weeks and 4 weeks of radiation after that. Anyone know how much a major life issue like this will play into the MLC??
Her diagnosis of breast cancer plays a role in her crisis. Even though she has a 90% curable rate, she is scared and most likely is running from it and yes, wants that one last shot at happiness and do the things that she always wanted to do, but couldn't. Be supportive and don't smother her. If she asks you to help her, I know you will...
She's got a lot on her plate, depression and her upcoming surgery, also her acting out towards you. When some people are in depression, they not be able to sleep and others can sleep all of the time. Also, if she's in crisis, there are times that they can't sleep because they can't shut their brains off. The demons come out to play when it's very quiet and they rumble in her brain all night long. Again, her upcoming surgery could also be creating some sleep issues...but time will tell.
For now...listen, validate and above all else, be supportive. Also, I know you are worried, but you've got to find a way not to over analyze her every move and comment. It's going to drive you nuts. Try to keep the focus on you and give her the space and time she needs.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Well was a tough day today - first one where I had to give the kids up for the week since we are spliting them 50/50 every other week.
I took the boys to church and packed their stuff into the car. Never heard from her, but figured she would show up and she did. She sat with us at church and it went well. Even though she sat on the other side of the boys, which I was expecting, she called me over to her half way through to talk to me. Anyways, after church I loaded the boys stuff in her car and she invited me to go to lunch with her and the kids. Had a good lunch and she sat next to me. She definitely made a sneaky effort to physically touch up against me multiple times - like she was testing me to see if it bothered me - even going so far to ask if it was bothering me that her legs kept rubbing up against mine. I told her it was fine and acted like it was no big deal - i kept the emotions under control. When we left the boys were sad and hugged me and told me they would see me next Sunday and said goodbye. She didn't say anything, just kind of turned and so I didn't say goodbye to her either. So I have seen this pattern of running though - everytime she gets close to me and seems like she is enjoying herself, she bolts at the end like she's telling herself you can't feel this way with him - weird.
Well did lots of stuff around the house this afternoon to stay busy and that helped. Just not sure how much I can do to keep myself busy this week - can only clean so much. Good news is I have to travel 2 days this week for work, so that will help. Wish me luck and I will post again later in the week - I'm sure I will need to journal to let some emotions out. Everyone take care.
Last edited by job; 11/05/1802:50 PM. Reason: added spaces between paragraphs
She may have many games and confusing signals to navigate through Keep expectations at 0 they are confused and torn with their choices- they give up a lot to pursue a fantasy life as you read if it is true MLC, their fantasy new life rarely to mostly NEVER seems to work for them
instead do exactly as you did...be kind, validating and let go
do your own thing time will show you the direction she takes as well as your new direction the old M is over start with friendship. .you do your part to be a good friend-then let go
find new activities friends hobbies ect.. let her see a positive, active , busy social-you-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
PT - thank you. Anyone think that this is like "cake eating" with the physical touch and "tests" as I like to say, or could this be a way she is trying to reconnect and see if I am "safe" in some way? Like PT mentioned, if she is trying to be friends right now and playing games, I don't want to throw a boundry in there that shuts that down. Hard to differentiate between what could be "cake eating" and some type of reconnection even if it's small.
I don't see this as cake eating. What she is doing is temperature checking to see if you will still react to her actions. They do things like this to see if we are still there, right where they left us. It's typical behavior while in crisis.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job - thanks again. Got another question for you and PT, because I want to make sure I am making the best decisions:
So when she temperature checks - is it okay if she does that as long as I keep my emotions in check? Like if she hugs, or says nice things, or tries physical touches - as long as I never initiate it and am just kind and validate, but come off as no big deal - is that okay? Or do I just avoid it or tell her I am uncomfortable with it? I feel like its such a fine line. Believe me I don't do any pressuring anymore for the last 6 weeks or so - every call, text, spend time, has to come from her and I do wait unless it directly involves the kids. So as long as I do nothing that seems to be pressure - can I let her temp check and see that I am not exactly buying into what shes selling - I'm nice like a good friend. Thank you all.
Im not sure about the best reaction Job will know more
You many have to play with it.. To see what works to bring her closer and keeps her comfortably engaged without initiating anything
If someone hugged me,.I would hug back If she touches, smile If she compliments,.I would say thanks I would not initiate any closeness but I would compliment her if she does anything that deserves a compliment or thank her if she does something nice? without overdo like a new friendship-that's it be authentic where its appropriate for a MLC
One think I can recommend is getting your energy right around this situation This is something you can practice in your mind and it will help you heal for instance; If you think of her send her good thoughts and let go..over and over and over
If you believe in God.. Give him control on this situation use this time to change you- work on acceptance listen to upbeat seminars, Tony Robbins, Joel Olsteen Les brown all free on utube apply the principles of DB as well as all these seminars if you can- practice-practice letting go-read on detachment
Then become the H, a good friend, the person you want to be take this time to find yourself connect with kids watch any shared accounts and credit cards
take up a new sport or hobby make new friends
you don't have to be transparent with her you are free to create a new life while you explore any possibilities of reconciliation let her wonder a little after all- she moved out-
MLC takes a long time-sometimes 2-7 years or longer If she does return --of course most of us would have gone that route But if she does not, this time gives you tiem to recalibrate and create new
Not dating but just friends, activities healing seeking within ect… let her see a change a happier, posiitve new you-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
PeaceToday has given you excellent advice. You will need to experiment for a bit to see what works. Here's the fine line...if you do not accept her hugs, etc., she may view it as punishment for her expressing her feelings. After all, her feelings are hers to own at this time.
You can't go wrong in saying thank you when she does something around the home or for you. If she hugs you, there is no harm in responding to the hug. However, this is her dance and you can follow her lead. Do not initiate closeness...allow her to feel safe enough to come to you.
It is possible for MLC to last longer than 7 years, so you will need to buckle up for a bumpy ride for quite some time. Find things to keep your mind active. Any changes that you make are for yourself and you need to be happy w/them. Those changes will need to become a permanent part of your life and not just to win her back.
Hang in there...it's a marathon, not a sprint.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I don't think I have posted to you, but I've been keeping up with your sitch. I can relate to you and what you are going through. I guess we can all say that to some degree, but some of our situations are a little more closely related than others.
About 5 months ago my W moved out after a year and a half of live in MLC. Having to give up your kids for 50% of the time is hard. I used to have 50% of the responsibility 100% of the time. Now I have 100% responsibility 50% of the time. I miss my kids in the off week something fierce, but also feel conflicted when is time for them to go back to Ws because at that point I need a break. I hate needing that break and I hate losing my kids for a week. The struggle is real.
And temp checking with your W, those things can be hard. I've read so many scenarios on here with people doing one thing or another. What I have learned from my experiences is that a lot of it doesn't really matter. In the beginning, my W was still attached emotionally and conflicted with the things she was doing. During that time, we kept up a lot of pretenses. I needed them, and I think she was doing what she was used to doing. Like, hugging when leaving. Making me a cup of coffee when she made herself one. Kissing me when she left. I saw these as signs, but at least in my case I think it was more like habit for her. As she drifted further in to the MLC tunnel, a lot of that stuff stopped (at least for us). It was hard on me when the little niceties that we did for eachother stopped. But, I also realize that everyone told me it would get worse before it got better. Knowing that didn't really make it easier to experience, but it did give me a frame of reference as to what was happening.
I think a lot of these things will change for you as you move further along your journey and her on hers. Just remember through all of this that YOU did not cause this so as things progress in whatever fashion they do, that ALSO is not your fault. No one decision that you make is going to break this situation for you. Just work on being the best you can be for yourself and try and take your focus off of her for a bit. That is very hard to do, but it will need to happen.
I wish you the best in all this. You are in a good place with a great group of people that have been through all this and can offer you the best advice you can possibly hope to receive. I'm sorry you have to be here, but I'm glad that you are!
SJ6 - I appreciate the kind words and they do resonate with what I am looking at in the future. Yes it's hard, but I am just taking this time to go DIM and work on me. Funny how much they pursue when you distance - it really is a dance. I have not done anything in 2 days and she texted me 13 times yesterday and called (which i let go to VM and never called back) and 3 times today - might I add with pictures of her on both days. Just crazy stuff. Yes it's hard letting the kids go, but I know I get them back soon and that is what I look forward to. Just try to not think about the W and move on with my life. I know it will get harder soon enough and everyone's advice helps me prepare. Thanks again.
PT and Job - again thanks for the advice and I am trying to do exactly what you say. I don't look any farther than today and just take it one foot in front of the other. Looking any more forward than today gets the mind into the "what if's" and I just can't afford that emotionally right now.
11/9/18: So she stopped by the house to pick up the kids from the bus stop and I happened to be home, but I didn't know she was out side. She started texted me if she could use the bathroom - which I was so confused because I didn't realize she was outside the house, but she saw my car in the driveway. Eventually I realized she was outside and went out to get her and let her come in and use the bathroom. I started putting away the dishes and when she got out of the bathroom - she said "Thanks" and just walked out the door. Well I thought that was weird that she didn't even say anything else and didn't grab her mail on the counter. So after a few minutes I walked out to give her the mail.
She opened the window and I said why did you rush out? and she tells me that she didn't think I wanted to talk with her because my back was too her putting dishes away and I didn't say anything when she said "thanks." I told her, no biggie, but I wouldn't mind talking to her, that I didn't think she wanted to talk to me, because she just jetted. Anyways we talked about the week for a bit - her asking me how my week went (we hadn't talked really all week - DIM). Then she proceeds to compliment me on how good I smelled. Anyways, boys get off the bus and run up to me for giant hugs and kisses - I hadn't seen them in 5 days. As I was hugging them and talking to them I turned towards her and could see her eyes were all watery (don't know if it was guilt or she was happy seeing me with the boys or they don't get like that with her - who knows). So the boys get in the car and pop their heads out the back window and ask for kisses. So I give them kisses and here is where I totally muffed it - completely not thinking about it, I kiss my hand and put it on her cheek. I about had a heart attack after I did it, because it's the first time I have done anything affectionate like that and it was totally without thinking - like unconsciously did it. Well she didn't freak out - but leaned her head into my hand, closed her eyes and smiled. So I just said have a good night and she left. Was totally freaked, but I know we are going to make mistakes now and then. But I don't think it bothered her too much because she texted me about 10 times after that taking the kids to the haircut place and such. I just responded short to answer questions and that was that.
11/10/11: So I was talking to my boys this morning on the phone and my son's invites me over to my wife's place for dinner tonight. So I asked him if his mom knew he was inviting me and he told me "yes - she just asked me to ask you." So I finished up talking to him and asked to speak to his mom. I asked her if she was inviting me over for dinner tonight because our son just got done asking me. She told me "well if you have plans tonight I don't want you to break them." So I asked her again - do you want me to come for dinner and again she said not if you are going to break plans. I told her, "I wouldn't say yes if I didn't want to come", so she said okay I will see you at 6pm. Then she proceeds to tell me that the person she is renting the house from dropped off a 15 pound turkey for Thanksgiving, but she didn't know how her and the kids would eat it all. So I asked her, "well didn't you invite me to Thanksgiving last weekend?" and she says, "I wasn't sure if you really wanted to come spend it with me and you just said yes because the kids were there when I asked you." So again I told her I wouldn't say yes if I didn't want to. So she said okay.
So here's the dilemma - My same son that invited me told me the other day - "if mom invites you to do anything with her you have to say YES." When I asked him "but what if I have plans?", he told me "it doesn't matter - break them." I said why would you say that - that doesn't seem fair to whomever I had plans with. He tells me "because for the last several weeks, when you and mom are together, she laughs and smiles all the time and you guys just seem to have fun together." Wow - what do you say to that? Those 11 year old's are very observant I guess.
So with all that said - I told my wife I would come to dinner tonight - and I didn't really have plans except with my brother, so no big deal. Going to go with zero expectations and just have a good time with the kids and her and appreciate the time I get to spend with her. Again just a little scary that she has wanted me to do stuff with her the last two weeks now. It almost seems like she thinks I don't want to do anything with her - so maybe I am "DIMMING" pretty good right now - I back away and she dances towards. But I won't put pressure - that's why I already told her if she wants me to spend anytime together, she has to ask me. So we will see - wish me luck.
I'm glad you went. Hopefully everything went well.
If she asks you to do something, accept...unless you have other plans and I would advise her that you do. There is nothing wrong in being honest about other plans. She needs to understand that you are moving on w/your life and aren't sitting around waiting for her to call, text or invite you to do things w/her.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I think it is great she is happy when she is with you and your son notices it
But also agree to keep up GAL and not waiting around for her invitations
Tricky part is the no expectations part
How was dinner
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Okay - sorry it took so long to post because I got the kids back today and was having fun with them. OA, Gordie and Job - thanks for the words.
So to answer the question it went really well. I went in with no expectations and told myself to be upbeat and have a great time with the kids if nothing else.
Got to her house and the boys let me in. She had been cooking dinner and was in the dining room doing a jigsaw puzzle with one of my boys. I said hi to all of them and then put some things in her fridge for the dinner. My other boy was a bit sick with a cold, so I gave him some meds and we sat down to start watching a movie. About ten minutes into it my other son comes out and says why don't you go see mom and work on the puzzle, so I agreed.
I went in and we just started talking and working on the puzzle together, but talked and laughed the whole time. She asked me to pour us some drinks and I did. About 30 minutes later I asked what I could help with for dinner and started getting the table set and such. We all sat down to eat and she asked which boy was going to pray (which she hasn't done in a while because the prayer always ends with "i wish mom and dad were back together with us as a family" ). Well of course it did and she told my son "good prayer" (kind of blew me away). We had dinner and all talked and then the boys went back to watching their movie. Since she cooked I offered to do the dishes and she dried and talked with me. The boys asked for ice cream, so I ran out and got them all some and came back. After that, she and I started on the puzzle again just talking about the holidays and family. I let her do most the talking and me the listening.
In the middle of us talking she tells me "you don't have to stay if you have other plans." and I asked her if she wanted me to leave. She said "I just don't want to keep you if you have something else to do. I mean you are probably bored just doing a puzzle with me." I told her I would like to stay if she wanted me too and she said she did. Now all this is really out there because my body language and mood gave off nothing but being comfortable and having a good time and we were laughing away for a lot of the night - so not sure why she said that. Then about 20 minutes later she starts telling me about someone she knows at work who was texting her about the divorce they are going through and how lonely they are that shes has moved out and he doesn't get to see the kids - see where this is going?? So she tells me that he screwed it up by sleeping with someone else and not telling his wife while they are getting divorced and she found out and he screwed up, blah blah..And she says "well I told him if you ever did that I guess I couldn't blame you since we are separated right now, but would hope you would tell me if we got back together" - or something to that effect. I didn't say a word! I couldn't tell if this was her way of saying she might do something or trying to gauge whether I was - especially with the wondering if I don't want to spend time with her and been doing my own thing and not answering many calls etc, DIMMING. Every part of me wanted to tell her I would never do that - I'm married first of all, and second of all, she is the only woman I want. BUT I DIDN'T. Just sat still, and kept listening. So she had to wonder why I didn't say anything I bet.
We talked a little about her upcoming cancer surgery which is this Tuesday - she had not told me until last night the exact day and I kind of pushed her because I am concerned - she has been afraid to share it with me because her greatest fear is that she wants me to be the one to lean on and doesn't think its right with her leaving. She started telling me some of the other people she works with are going to try and bring her dinners next week while she is recovering. I told her the boys and I would be happy to bring her a meal over - but only if she wanted us to. She said that might be nice on Wednesday or something - nothing concrete. Then she told me she was going to have to tutor on the side because she needed money. I didn't say anything except she was a great teacher and she would be good at it. I mean I feel bad, but she left me and separated or accounts, so that's on her. Anyways we put the boys to bed and I saw she had put a picture of all four of us from about 2 years ago in a frame by each of their bed sides. Another thing that blew me away.
After that we just had drinks and talked and did the puzzle and hung out. It was fun - we kept laughing. Eventually I told her I was going to have to stop drinking or I wouldn't be able to drive home and she made a comment about I would look funny sleeping on the little couch in the morning. So I figured it was best to leave. Told her thank you for inviting me it was a good time and I left.
11/11/18 - so this morning she calls me about my son still being pretty sick and he didn't want to go to church and wanted to know if I was okay with that. I told her sure if he wasn't feeling good. She asked if I wanted her to drop the boys off and I told her I had to run some errands and I would pick them up at 11am. Went and got the boys and she had all their stuff packed for me. As we were leaving the boys almost didn't give her a hug, and I told them to say goodbye. Then I just turned to her and told her if she was scared about the surgery and just wanted to talk - she could call. She said thanks and gave me a hug and I left.
When we got in the car, I asked the boys if they had a good time with mom and they said yes - but last night was the best when we were all hanging out together. I said really. Then they both told me their mom asked them at breakfast if they had a good time when i was over last night - and of course they said the same. Then the boys tell me "mom said she had a really good time with you too." I was like what?? Then the boys said mom told us - exact words "I had a really good time last night with your dad." Blown away. I had to double take and make sure they were making it up to do what younger kids do and make you feel good and they both said they swore that she bought it up and that's what she said. So that's the story - and now starts a new week with the kids and her going through surgery and then she starts radiation - I know she is going to be off for a couple weeks, so just going to play it day by day - but I will be there for her while she is going through this if she wants me to be - regardless of what is happening.
Just not real sure how to play it now - as I don't want to DIM this whole time, because I feel like it would be very uncaring considering the circumstances. I will make sure I text her at least on Tuesday and I will initiate it to wish her well and prayers for the surgery and then will wait to see if she asks me about bringing the kids and dinner on Wednesday. ANY SUGGESTIONS on how to handle this situation??
Stop second guessing yourself. You handled that like a pro. You dealt with the scared little kitten and didn't rush in to save the day. You gave her space, you validated, and you were not her fixer. Let her deal with her consequences, mirror her behavior, and keep the expectations out of it. Keep reading Gordie's thread. I see a lot of him in you.
I agree w/OneArt. You did a great job handling the situation. You are still second guessing yourself and maybe even over analyzing everything. Relax, go w/the flow and trust me, you will know if something works on not. Just treat her life a friend for now...that is what she is looking for.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I missed the part earlier that she has cancer. WHAT THE HECK?!!!! I can't believe she is doing this while undergoing cancer treatments!!!!! That is truly a jaw dropper.
I think you are doing really well. Amazingly. And as is generally the case here, I am thinking, "What woman would leave a guy like that?!!!" You are clearly a wonderful man and dad.
But as a cancer survivor I have to say I don't think you should be dim/dark in that context of her treatment. I think you should offer to take her to the hospital and you should check in with her twice a day at least, you should bring food over that she can just reheat -- and not only for her when she has the boys but just in general, if she can eat, have food in the fridge for her, etc. You should do what you would do with a close friend who had cancer.
She is going to feel like crap; how can she possibly take care of the boys when she feels sick from treatments? It's totally insane to go through a separation when you are going through treatment, it shows how desperate she is to fix the hole in her heart.
I don't know, I would not hold back from offering help in the cancer context, just make it the tone of a good friend without romance in it and continue with the no expectations and the listening. But I would be there big time, cancer is horrible and scary. My H totally abandoned me during my treatments, that was year two of MLC. It was painful beyond imagining to be alone through that and that wound I have only been able to heal a little via my faith. I know it's totally her fault that she is alone but I would just encourage you to stay true to your values on that and not rely on MLC strategizing in the context of cancer except to avoid romantic implications in your helping and to give space when she wants -- which is what you would do with a friend who had cancer anyway.
And in the context of vows, yes, no matter what happens later, I would want to be the one who came and cared for my spouse, even when he broke my heart and didn't deserve it. Looking back on this later, no matter what happens in the end, I think you will be glad that you did.
Last edited by Gerda; 11/12/1802:40 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Gerda - I totally get where you are coming from. She said she wanted the divorce and filed paperwork about 15 days before she found out she had breast cancer. It is a 95% success rate for the type she has, but bottom line is she had already started proceedings before we knew. But even after all that she still moved out - only thing is she still has not served me papers and she filed about 70 days ago with her lawyer.
And I hate it going through things like this - I want to be there for her during this time - but it has to be on her conditions and I told her that. Like I said in the last post, her big fear is that she can't have me as her best friend and support because of what she did/doing, and so she doesn't want me involved because she says it's not fair to either of us. I told her I would be here for her - IF she CHOOSES me to be - I won;'t pressure her into it. But like I said, I still have offered to bring her dinner and to call me if she is scared and wants to talk. I told her I would be there for her. So that's why it's so hard - do I push being there regardless - even if she is to stubborn to ask for the care and help, or do I wait for her to ask. Ugghh!!. But your words help - I will push it without pushing the envelope - hopefully.
I would check on her periodically, just as you would a friend. I would offer support and any assistance that she may need and let her know that there are no strings attached to the offer of assistance. Right now, she has a lot going on and she's scared and she isn't sure what the outcome may be. So, as a friend, be there to listen when she wants to talk. Right now, she has to focus on herself and what she needs to do to get through the cancer situation.
Be that friend she needs at this time. If she says no, then back off...but if you leave the door ajar and give her the opportunity to think about your offer of assistance, she may take you up on it.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job - she did take me up on it. She asked the boys and I if we could come see her. We were going to bring her dinner tonight, but we got snow and the roads were bad, so she didn't want us to try. But she did ask if we could could come see her tomorrow. So we will see what happens - same thing with bringing her dinner since she is sore and tired and not moving around a bunch. Let you all know how it goes.
Well a little surprising tonight. I spoke with her by phone this morning when she called me to tell me the boys had a school delay because of snow. I already knew because the school called, but thanked her for the heads up. She asked if we could still do dinner tonight because she was going "stir crazy" sitting in the house healing from surgery. I told her the boys had hockey tonight, but I would text her and let her know where I was taking the kids if she was interested in joining us. She told me she would still like to do something for dinner. Also boys wanted to send her some flowers with a "heal soon" message so I sent them yesterday. Didn't make the card sound to pressuring - just said "heal soon - we miss you. Love the boys, the dogs and me. She texted me about 3pm today with a picture of the flowers and thanking me for how pretty they were - not expecting that.
Then to my surprise she shows up at the boys hockey practice about half way through - which I had no idea she was going to do. She sat down next to me and we talked a bit. She told me she was real tired and hasn't been sleeping much. I just told her I understood, and I was having some troubles myself. Then we both drove to dinner. Went pretty good - we had fun overall, but she was not very talkative - probably b/c she was tired - not going to read into it as she did just have surgery 2 days ago. She told me she felt good enough to go to work tomorrow and wasn't going to stay home. Again I just tried to do more listening than anything, but we had fun with the kids. I did ask her if she was sure she wanted me to come for Thanksgiving - and she got a little defensive and told me if I had plans I didn't have to come again. I told her I would like to come if she wanted me too and she said she did and then threw in the comment again about how I make a better turkey and than laughed and told me that's night why she invited me. We all left and she said goodbye to the kids and hugged them and said bye to me. She also brought us some homemade cookies which were really good.
Anyways when I was putting the boys to bed tonight, they commented how mom was kind of quiet - but, and I forgot to mention, they had both written her "get well" cards and the jist of them both was they wish she was at home with dad so I could take care of her and she would get better soon. Listen folks - I didn't write the cards. Just what my kids want and I wasn't going to tell them "no". Secondly, one of my boys who was hanging out with her while I was getting the other out of his hockey skates told me that mom said she was "lonely by herself in her house and wishes she had someone to hug." So not sure what to think about that one - just told him I'm sure she gets lonely when you guys aren't there. So that's all for now. I will get back when something else happens. Love to all.
You are doing a nice job in not pressuring her and being a friend. The flowers and cards were a nice touch and will give her plenty to think about in the days ahead.
Keep up the good work!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
