First and foremost I do apologize for any sentences that makes no sense, as English is not my maternal language.
3 months ago, I was smacked in the face, when my lover, mother of my children, and partner in life decided sit me down in the couch and tell me, that she no longer wanted to be with me, and that it was over.
Background:
We have had a great run being together from age 17-30. We have experienced life together, but also apart as our educations and job gave us time apart. Unfortunately, I became sick 6 years ago, and I was not able to provide her with the love, affection and caring that she needed. I developed a depression, that kept me in a state of wanting to be alone and being "grumpy?" all the time. This came in periods, and she stood by me even though it was difficult. There were really great periods in between though, we actually talked in march 2017 about getting married in 2020. We have a 5 year old and a 1 1/2 year old and we bought a house 3 years ago. She said on occasion, however rarely, that she needed more affection and for me to share how I felt about her. I wasn't good enough to honor those demands clearly. However I did and do love her more than the moon and stars combined.
Back to the story:
I asked her on that night, if she had met someone else, because then I would not stand in her way, even though it killed me to see her destroy our family life - she said there weren't anyone else, but that she had felt unhappy for a long time, and that her feelings had gone.
I told her, that we had to at least try and fight for our sake and for the sake our kids. She agreed to go to a marriage therapist, and we did, 4 times. She however did not open up and talk about herself, but merely stated she was there for me to get on with my life in a good way. We had couples and individual sessions. Then on a thursday before we had our next session lined up, she went to work one night and said she would be late - i didn't think much of it, grabbed my pc and went online to do some work. She had forgotten to sign out of a social media - and there was the evidence. She had been engaging in sexual activities with a coworker for the entire time we had been going to a MC. I was heartbroken. I texted her and told her that I had found out, and I wanted her to come home so we could talk about it as adults. The answer was that she thought it was a bad idea and she was sorry i found out that way - I could call the therapist if I needed someone to talk to. In the evidence, there was a clear plan on how she was supposed to inform me about her new relationship at the next MC session, and they had been spending some time brewing that together.
I felt absolutely mortified - because for the 3 weeks we had been going to sessions, I worked my heart out trying to save the bits and pieces of my relationship, and did everything in my power to keep her stressfree, so she could work with herself - all while, this was going on behind me back. She later confided in me, that she and him had been starting this affair out emotionally in June 2018, and she ended it with me in august 18.
Then two months passed, where I was trying to figure out wether to stay or not because she kept giving me mixed signals. She would tell me we were over, and should sell the house and clear custody, and the next evening she would be crying her heart out telling me how much she missed me.
Then 1 week ago, I told her, that I could not keep this up anymore, and even though the kids are small, they are taking notice of the change in the way we are around each other. So I texted her from work, asking her what she thought was going on. She told me that she had shifted towards me, that she felt like she missed me again and it was really nice and it made her happy - my response was "that makes me happy too". The same night she was going to the OM, and she talked in the afternoon about how she would most likely be upset when she got back home, so i shouldn't stay up and wait for her. I left a note in her car that afternoon, saying that she should consider making a choice now, cause it was not healthy for the OM, me or her to keep this up in the long run.
The day after she wrote me, that she was in love with the OM, that all she told me was untrue, and that she only had feelings for me in a sense of safety and the story we share. I was once again shattered.
We live together while the house is selling, she is trying to be friends with me for the kids sake, and she drives out to the OM to engage in PA with him and sleep at his house, whenever his kids are not there. She recently signed up at a "house rental agency" to get an appartment. I wrote her an email today with an apology, because I told her some ugly things a week ago (the first and only time I lost my cool in this whole process), and I wanted her to know, that I was not that kind of a person. But it had me going because I was so baffled of the fact that she didn't even have it in her for one bit to pull the handbreak and evaluate the situation, fight for her family and kids or anything. She just up and left, and acted like I and "us" never existed.
Her response was: I understand why you became upset and hurt, there are so many feelings involved in this. I just want us to be friends going through this, but I understand if we can't be. Have a great day at work and a good workout tonight.
I don't know what to do anymore. Should I just give in and say goodbye? I feel like she was swept away by this predator when she needed love and affection the most, and he was right there when i couldn't be. Now im well, my medicine is working, and I have gotten my life back. I also started working out, running, seeing people and doing sports. She noticed all of this, and on more than one occasion told me, that she thinks that I look amazing, that all the things that annoyed her are gone but the feelings are gone too. She also said that she hopes i find another girl soon but not someone prettier than her.. She told me multiple times that the changes in me are surreal, but she never spoke to me about her true needs, and therefore i couldn't change before she ended it and opened her mouth. The changes were not hard to do, however I had no clue I HAD to do them because she didn't speak up.
I acknowledge, that a lot of this is my fault, but if there is any chance of salvaging our 13 years and start on a fresh, I would really appreciate the help.
Thanks, and sorry for my poor english.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Your second duplicate thread was deleted, have patience for your posts to be approved until you get off of moderation
I do apologize . I thought I accidentally deleted the first post (I read "past" the fact that the posts have to be approved by mods).
Thank you for letting me know about the duplicate thread.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I have begun applying the rules from the Sandi thread - She is acting friendly and asked me yesterday evening where I was going, and today she asked if I was going out, to which I replied, yes I am going out with a friend. She doesn't take any more interest, and I believe it is a matter of her just knowing if I will be in the house or not, nothing else.
I will enforce the rules, and focus on myself, since I have pleaded, begged and done all the wrong things already over the past 3 months, so this is my last shot at it, and whatever happens hopefully by focusing on me, I will come out stronger. She doesn't seem concerned or interested in me or my wellbeing anymore, and I have begun searching for a new living space for me and my two kids and I actually do not dread the idea, even though I of course wish that we will figure this out. She is very much in love with the OM it seems, and I don't know of it is infatuation / love fog, or if she really detached completely and just moved on.
Hoping for some input
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
She wrote me a text message today at work: She wants us to talk tonight about contacting more real estate brokers, so the house can sell faster.
She also wants us to talk about custody because her psyciatrist told her yesterday, that it was unhealthy for us to be in the same household anymore when we were splitting up (???? i don't get that advice - she also advised my ex to tell me that we should have a 7-7 days agreement with our kids because we were both great parents <-- the woman has never met me, nor is she a child specialist, how can she possible give that kind of advice?)
Basically she wants to talk tonight about making an agreement on who is in the house during the week, she wants to stay a couple of days, and then I can come and stay a couple of days - I think this will confuse the kids, but I don't know how to talk to her about this - In all honesty, I think if she is in such a rush, she should just move out ?
I am desperate for some insight / help / guidance????????
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Yes I did, and he advised me against moving out as well. I do believe I will be telling her tonight, that since she is the one to break up the family, it is only reasonable that she is the one, who leaves the family house until it is sold, if that is what she needs in order to heal.
I will be paying attention and showing her that I listen to what she has to say, and I will control my feelings, even if she acts out of way, however I will be firm on the fact, that I am not moving out, along as the house is not sold.
Im still so very baffled by the fact, that a woman can fall in love, and choose to ruin her family within 6 weeks. However I am beginning to realize that I have to move forward, and let her do her thing (even though it is really hard).
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Just remember believe nothing she says and only half of what she does. At this point she has no respect for you as a man and lying to you will be easy because of it.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Im still so very baffled by the fact, that a woman can fall in love, and choose to ruin her family within 6 weeks. However I am beginning to realize that I have to move forward, and let her do her thing (even though it is really hard).
Yes it is all part of the script and she is executing it perfectly.
Time for you to just not worry about her but worry about your children and yourself.
Work on your depression and be the best DAD you can be.
Read as much as you can here and you will learn that you are not alone.
I think the lying comes easy indeed, as I have caught her on multiple occasions spinning the truth in her favor. Any advice regarding regaining the lost respect, or should I just think of it as gone forever?
I am working on being the best dad possible, and I am eating my way through the many very helpfull articles and threads on the site. Thanks a lot for the input, it is really helpful.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
So we actually did not get to talking yesterday as she apparently got sick and had to drive home from work (she spent the remainder of the day on the couch with hot drinks and antibiotics after having seen the doctors). I had my hands full with kids and house, so I didn't initiate any talk.
When the kids were asleep I sat down in the living room for a cup of tea before heading to bed. She asked me a question regarding when the real estate broker would be here, but then she didn't say anymore. Her phone was going off the charts though, so I guess she had her hands full with the OM on there (trying not to care). I was drained so after 30 minutes of her not engaging in communication, I told her, that I was calling it a night, and went to my room and fell asleep.
This morning, she told me she had to go to the doctors again, and she insisted, that I felt her throat because she was sure it was swollen, She also wanted me to feel her forehead because she was sure she had a fever. I was unsure how to react, and therefore I just did what she asked. She sent me two messages this morning on snapchat (I believe they were just group snapchats - nothing personal requested or shared).
She seems very closed off, and I don't really know the abbreviations clearly yet so I don't know if I am dealing with a wayward or walk away wife (maybe someone here can help me?).
Its for certain though, that she is getting her emotional needs (and physical too) covered somewhere else, as we up too 3 months ago were always communicating throughout the day.
I responded to her snapchats with a "It was really a good thing you went to the doctors and got the medicine, since you were feeling so ill -I hope you feel better soon".
Don't know if I shouldn't have?
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Yesterday I went out and had a great night with a friend of mine. I actually managed to keep my head clear of what is going on at "home" for a couple of hours - it was only after I arrived home, that I realized that (It made me happy).
She made me a coffee this morning, in a cup that read "Worlds greatest dad". I don't think she did it because she likes me, I think it might be because she feels guilty? Anyway I said thanks, but didn't touch the cup.
She informed me, that she is going to heading out tonight (To see the OM) and she will be home later. I just said "Okay", and smiled, even though my entire insides were turning. I know she and I are no longer a couple, however we are living together, and have kids together. I feel really disrespected by the fact that she so openly goes out and get her needs attended to elsewhere. She will actually spend an entire hour running around the house, putting on perfume, choosing what clothes she looks good in, then walk around the living room, waiting for him to tell her she can now come over.
Do I fold my hand and just leave this mess? I really do not want to, and I think we can salvage things, however not as long as this OM is there (She is basically at his beck and call at this point, and I fear she will be for longer than it takes to sell the house, inform the kids, and shred what we could be forever).
Advice much appreciated as always.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Yesterday I went out and had a great night with a friend of mine. I actually managed to keep my head clear of what is going on at "home" for a couple of hours - it was only after I arrived home, that I realized that (It made me happy).
That's great. Do more of this. It gets easier.
Originally Posted by Hurt213
She informed me, that she is going to heading out tonight (To see the OM) and she will be home later. I just said "Okay", and smiled, even though my entire insides were turning. I know she and I are no longer a couple, however we are living together, and have kids together. I feel really disrespected by the fact that she so openly goes out and get her needs attended to elsewhere. She will actually spend an entire hour running around the house, putting on perfume, choosing what clothes she looks good in, then walk around the living room, waiting for him to tell her she can now come over.
She is not thinking about you. She has an exciting new romance to keep her busy.
How much you can take is up to you. If you want to salvage the M then keeping standing. This is where detachment and 180 fits in. Do more of that. Your W will do as she will do without little thought of you, the home you've built, and dare I say it, the kids. Any threats or statements of ILU will fall on deaf ears. Detaching and 180 is really to protect you. At first it's a good way of keep the fears and negative thoughts at bay. But.as you've discovered above, the more you do, the more you will enjoy it, and even look forward to it. Also, protect your kids. GAL with them too.
Today I woke up early, and packed my gear for a golf tournament I had signed up for. I had made sure the kids got something to eat, and told the old one (4 years old), that I would be gone for the day but I would be back to tug her in tonight. My ex decided to get out of bed 10 minutes before I left, as she had been out seeing OM the night before and came "home" late. She wished me good luck in my tournament and told me to write her updates of how things went - I didn't respond nor did I send her anything today.
I left at 7.00 this morning and weren't home before 18.30 - I had a great day and didn't think about my situation and ex before around 16.00. She put some calendar dates in our shared calendar (that we keep for things related to the kids). She announced there, that she would be going to OM tonight when I got home. It really got me somehow - don't know why its so hard after 3 months still.
I ended up winning the tournament and should be real happy, but my mood was really down and I had a hard town focusing on the happy things. I came in the door at 18.30 - youngest was tucked in, and oldest was really happy to see me. Ex greeted me in the door and immediately asked how tournament went - I told her that I won and that I had a great day - She then just threw herself at me and hugged me tight and told me how wonderful, and wanted to hear all about it and the reactions from the other players and people watching. I honestly didn't want to hug her, but I was caught off surprise, and I really felt like a looser after. I only told her in short responses how it went. She said "its so amazing, isn't it? or do you not care? - I care and I think it is really amazing she then said) - since i didn't really respond to her trying to make conversation.
She then asked me if I needed to shower before her - again I was reminded that she was going to OM. I went to the bathroom, and felt really disrespected, as she had laid out the clothes she would be wearing tonight, including the lingerie...
After my shower, I went to tug in the big one, and she proceeded to take a bath, and while I was tugging in the eldest kid, she took off. In the kitchen I found a note she made of things needed to be done, before the real estate broker gets her on saturday - she had already done some of the things (cleaning out some closets). She had thrown out a lot of stuff, and I needed a document she accidentally trashed, so I went to retrieve it - I found that the cards and notes that I previously wrote her, before I knew of OM were also just trashed (she even ripped some of them over). That made me a bit sad, as she had kept on to them for this entire time. Guess she just doesn't want anything to do with us anymore (no idea why she is so interested in my day then).
So all in all a good day, but im going to sleep sad and with a heavy heart - its taking its toll on me these days.
Advice appreciated as always.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
As for why your wife is being nice and interested in your day even though she's throwing away cards and stuff, this is something we see on the board relatively often--spouses who are through with the romantic relationship and marriage but still have friendly feelings toward the LBS.
In her mind, those are probably two completely separate things.
Don't try to read anything into it, and try (I know it's hard) not to dwell on it.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Am I dealing with a wayward or a WAW ? I don't really know how to tell..
Judging from my info posted so far, is this "relationship" totally doomed and should I just say goodbye and thanks for what was ?
I feel like fighting for this relationship though... she wrote today, calling me nicknames and acting all happy and friendly - All i could think of was that this morning, she didn't say good morning, however i woke last night from a shadow in the hallway, she was apparently looking at me and my daughter sleeping (she didn't notice I woke) she stood there observing us for 2 minutes after she came home from OM, before she silently went to the other end of the house to go to sleep - meaning of this ?
I found a old letter she wrote me 10 years ago, where I was about to leave her. She pleaded, begged and cried her heart out, asking for us to reconcile, and talk about things, not make hasty decisions and what not. I printed this out together with a letter stating, that I am going to be moving on now for the sake of myself and the kids - I have tried to reason with her (my bad), but she clearly does not see anything as long as OM is in the picture. I told her that multiple times in the past where one of us had found another, destiny lead us together again - always the same pattern - However this time is different since we now are selling a home, dividing the kids, and breaking a lot in the proces - I don't know if we are able to get back even if destiny shows us the way when her rebound ends - I am going to give her the old mail together with this letter tonight.
Help is appreciated
Last edited by Hurt213; 10/29/1811:19 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I wouldn’t give her the old letter as I fear it would only push her away more. I believe this is in Sandi’s rules where she advises against showing spouse anything from the past (photos, letter, etc) and it could be construed as manipulation.
Right now she’s focused on the shiny new toy, and wants nothing to do old stuff. (You)
Keep your focus on you and you’re kids!
Me - 38 W-37 S6 M 10 years T 13yrs BD 3/18 W moves out 4/18 W files 7/18
Hurt, just caught up on your sitch. Sorry man, i know it is tough. When my WW (and I think your W is a WW) started lying, considering she'd always abhorred it, it was really tough.
Here is the thing. You can't believe ANYTHING she says. Positive or negative. The happiness at your winning the tournament. The nice things she does (only trust half of her actions!). The nickname calling in correspondence. Yes some of it might be guilt. However, a lot of it is probably manipulation attempts. Since she is so open about her relationship with OM.
I know you are looking for help. Here is how I would approach it.
Continue to detach. Please stop reading 10 year old letters. It doesn't help. I remember purposely, early on in my sitch, pulling out a poem she wrote me when we first got together. It really set me back in my detachment. sandi's rules say that the girl you married is gone! The point is that no matter what you shared before, how she felt before, how pious she was before, how moral she was before, she isn't that anymore. You are dealing with a completely different creature.
Continue to 180 on any behavior that contributed to your sitch. NOTE, this doesn't mean any of this is YOUR fault. There is plenty of fault to go around for both of you. However, SHE is the one that stepped out of the MR, and you are the one trying to work on it. So remember that. Recognize your poor prior behavior, fix it, but move on. Don't dwell on the "I was so bad" aspect of things. You can promise tomorrow, but you can't buy back yesterday (to borrow from Bon Jovi).
Keep GAL. Sounds like golf is a great escape for you. New rule: When you are out GAL do not visit this calendar app. That set you back during the tournament. Learn from that and grow. If the calendar app sends notifications, turn them off. You can always check it after GAL.
" In the kitchen I found a note she made of things needed to be done, before the real estate broker gets her on saturday - she had already done some of the things (cleaning out some closets)." DO NONE OF THESE THINGS YOURSELF. This is her endeavor, make her do the dirty work. So many LBSs think that if they "play along" it will make their WAS/WS reconsider. It won't. In fact, the thing that will make he reconsider is if she feels like it is all on her to do the dirty work of leaving. Don't let nice guy tendencies get in the way here. You want to command respect from her, it starts with not lifting a finger to help her leave you. Doesn't mean you actively try to prevent it, just that you don't help it.
And finally, on respect. People do not give respect, you demand it. When she starts to behave disrespectfully you walk away. "Sorry, I will not tolerate being treated this way." Said calmly, but firmly. Then just walk away. It will take a few times, but you need to be consistent.
Hurt, also part of the problem is you are still too interested in what she is doing. Digging through the trash (yes I know you said she tossed a document you needed.....but did you really need it? Or was it an excuse to dig through the trash to see what she tossed?), checking out her clothes on the bed, etc.....those are things LBSs do that set them back. You have to fake it until you make it. The first few times I wanted to snoop on my W but didn't allow myself too was tough. It was very difficult. But then it got to the point where I just didn't care anymore to check. Work on that. Ask yourself, would a man that commands respect dig through the trash? Would he check out her OM's clothes?
Finally, for the utmost in taking back respect....kick her out of the MBR. Next time she is out, whether with OM or not, gather all of her things and move them to another room. When she protests you firmly tell her: "I refuse to share the marital bedroom with a lying cheater." And then end the conversation. No matter how angry or mad she gets. She will get angry and mad....but she will also respect you. So do this at your next convenient opportunity.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Oh the reason you're dealing with a WW is because she wants to do whatever she wants to do (OM) AND still have you as her H. You need to show her that she can't have both. D'd or not.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Am I dealing with a wayward or a WAW ? I don't really know how to tell..
Probably a WW. They are usually the ones that engage in affairs while continuing "family life" at home.
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is this "relationship" totally doomed
No, marriages have come back from far worse than this.
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and should I just say goodbye and thanks for what was ?
Yes, you absolutely should. Because she is 100% done (for now, that may change in the future but it'll be a while). In her mind there is zero chance of recon. So you too should call it done and get about the business of moving on. Quit putting up with all her "playing house" BS.
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however i woke last night from a shadow in the hallway, she was apparently looking at me and my daughter sleeping (she didn't notice I woke) she stood there observing us for 2 minutes after she came home from OM, before she silently went to the other end of the house to go to sleep - meaning of this ?
It's classic cake-eating. Goes out for a fling with OM and comes home to see you in bed with D and stops to think "oh they look so cozy, that's sweet!" The term cake-eating comes from the old saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too" as you probably know. She's having her cake (OM) and eating it too (family life). But if you eat your cake how can you also have it? She only can as long as you allow it.
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I found a old letter she wrote me 10 years ago, where I was about to leave her. She pleaded, begged and cried her heart out, asking for us to reconcile, and talk about things, not make hasty decisions and what not. I printed this out together with a letter stating, that I am going to be moving on now for the sake of myself and the kids
Good, now throw both of them away. DO NOT GIVE HER ANY LETTERS. DB'ing is all about showing changes through ACTIONS. Letters and talking do not work with a WW.
Thank you so much for your replies to my thread. I was really surprised by how logically your approach seemed when I read it out aloud. I think I have been postponing detaching because I have been going around this the wrong way.. If I just show her, how much I can help out, how great I can be around the house, then she will leave OM and not have any feelings for him and come back.
I now realize, that the 10 year old letters, are in fact 10 years old, and should stay in the past. They won't do any good in the present as it won't be like we are reminiscing about good old times. You hit the nail on the head with the "going through the trash for a document - It really showed me how deep I have been in trying to hold on instead of letting go and moving on. That is definitely not who I am and not the values I hold deer and want to project on to my kids and the ones I hold dear in my life.
I told her that the real estate broker is coming this sunday, however I am not going to be helping out with her list of things shat she thinks needs done before he gets here.
According to Sandi rules, I should show that I am content, happy and moving forward - I should be nice and friendly - however I am having a real hard time figuring out where the "border" between detaching from our old life and showing her that I don't really care but still act friendly and nice. - You talk about throwing her out of the bedroom (we are taking turns sleeping in the bedroom of the youngest child - should I tell her to move there permanently, and is that not going against sandi's rule about being cordial and not arguing, being happy and content?
What about daily life? today we have gymnastics (don't know if that is the right word for it in english) with the little ones, and she wants to come, do I tell her, yes sure, lets go play family? or do I just tell her, we don't do this anymore? I am having a hard time finding the balance in this 180.. How much "family" do I play with her?
She apparently found my letter this morning when she packed the bags for work (yea she insists on packing my lunchbox still - should I just tell her; no thank you?" She asked if the letter was for her? (it was in an envelope with her name on it) - She seemed genuinely happy and interested in it, however I told her no it wasn't. She then responded "well, it has my name on it..." and then left it with that comment - should I just destroy the letter ? (the one that informs her, of the fact that I am moving on now with the kids because she is so infatuated and out of reach that we are not compatible at this point).
Tonight she will be going to OM again, and whenever she does, she becomes real distant and cold in the hours before leaving. Yesterday she wasn't going anywhere, and I had a late meeting a work, when I came home she had kept food warm for me in the oven, and sat down to eat with me.. I am so confused to this behavior. I just thanked her for making me dinner, and then ate and headed out to the gym.
I am confused
Last edited by Hurt213; 10/30/1807:48 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
My W was sleeping with me saying we were soul-mates before she left, only for me to later discover she had been taking money, clothes etc. to a new place planning to leave.
After she left she offered to buy nice things for me and arranged family days out together only for me to discover that she had tried to get me into trouble with the police.
I still can't comprehend that my best friend, soul-mate, wife could do such things.
she wants out right? Well, then not sleeping in that bed, in that bedroom, in that house are all a consequence of that choice. Let her deal with the consequence of her choice.
I'd say your W is welcome to go to gymnastics whether you want her to or not, right? It's her kids there right? So that would be ok to let her tag along with you to things you are doing. But don't plan anything around her.
Don't tell W not to pack your lunch, just pack your own if you'd rather her not do it for you. Do it the night before or something like that. Don't create conflict, just do your thing. I'd get rid of the letter. If you're writing her love letters while she's having an affair that just screams WEAK!!!! Get rid of it unless you like her running roughshod over you.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
So I followed your guys advice, and frankly I am tired of acting like a doormat. I came to the realization today, that I have become someone completely else during this process, someone who is definitely not me, and that is unacceptable.
I told her today, that she ruined the family, and therefore the consequences were as follows:
1. From here on out, I would be taking the bedroom and she can sleep on a mattress in our youngest kids bedroom. (She accepted with no protest).
2. I told her that she could take all her things from the master bathroom and move them into the guest bathroom (she accepted with no protest)
3. I told her that our joint account from here on out was only going to be covering the expenses to the house (yea I have been postponing this, thinking it was going to help me, if I kept supporting her financially aswell). All the expenses from the joint account that were not going to house bills, are now divided between us on our own personal accounts. She became real aggravated when I told her, that i weren't going to co-finance her new car anymore, and that she would have to pay that her self, since she wants to take the car + the debt when the house sells, and then drive off. I told her, there is no logically reason to why I would keep on paying half the cost for a car im not going to use, nor get anything out of when she decides to sell it at some point. She didn't agree but in the end said "fine - but she was clearly angry".
I don't know if I threw too much at her at once, I don't know if I [censored] up completely by doing this, but im confused, and needed to set some boundaries for once i felt.
Did I screw up?
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
We have had a great run being together from age 17-30.
Were there any previous boyfriends/girlfriends before dating each other?
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I became sick 6 years ago, and I was not able to provide her with the love, affection and caring that she needed. I developed a depression, that kept me in a state of wanting to be alone and being "grumpy?" all the time. This came in periods, and she stood by me even though it was difficult.
Serious depression is absolutely horrible. Many people do not understand it. To have a devoted companion is a blessing. I think it takes a very loving and patient sole to endure living with someone who has depression. Depression is often misunderstood and others may see you as lazy, weak, contrary, etc. Some spouses just get fed up with it. This leads me to make this statement. Whether or not your depression was a factor that lead to her losing certain feelings for you......it did not merit betrayal. You are not responsible for her affair.
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I asked her on that night, if she had met someone else, because then I would not stand in her way, even though it killed me to see her destroy our family life - she said there weren't anyone else, but that she had felt unhappy for a long time, and that her feelings had gone.
So, you gave her ample opportunity to reveal the truth, and she chose to lie to your face, and she continued living with you, as a W.
It is hard for H's to realize just how much respect his W has lost for him. In this case, your W is no longer hiding the fact that she's meeting OM. I doubt she's even considered how blatantly she's rubbing it in your face. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to smile and tell her to have a good time, when she's going out with OM.
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According to Sandi rules, I should show that I am content, happy and moving forward - I should be nice and friendly - however I am having a real hard time figuring out where the "border" between detaching from our old life and showing her that I don't really care but still act friendly and nice.
I did use similar words and how that could be confused or misunderstood in some instances. You show her that you don't really care, by refusing to get caught up in the drama, and refusing to fall for her manipulation tricks. How? By changing how you think and how you see her. You do it by not having any expectations whatsoever. In other words, you aren't always mentally weighing what "she" thinks about you. You stop mentally weighing if she'll like it or not. You stop worrying about her mood and how what you'll need to do to make her feel better. You'll stop putting her feelings ahead of everything else. You probably thought that was what you were suppose to do in a MR. However, at the current time, you need to direct your thoughts to the information you are learning, and how you will handle things as you go forward. No longer are you her puppet. No longer do you live to keep her happy and satisfied with her life, and with you. It's not your responsibility. It is your responsibility to make yourself happy, and to see to the welfare of your children. If and when she ends the affair and is willing to do the necessary work to have a trusting relationship.....we can talk about how to deal with it. For now, you have to see yourself as an individual rather than a "couple". You have to let go of your nice-guy tendencies and don't try to rescue her or make her feel a particular way. Stay focused on "your" day and "your" GAL, etc. If she does something that makes you feel disrespected, then speak up. Stand up for yourself. If she's being all nicey-nice, just go with the flow, but don't make it more than it is. It doesn't mean anything has changed.
In her mind, the M was over when she started her affair. She immediately placed you in the friend zone. She wants to keep you emotionally attached to her, but she doesn't want to be in a romantic relationship with you. While she has another man, she will not see you see with romantic eyes. She will not see you with romantic eyes as long as she feels disrespect for you as a man/husband. The only thing a WW truly respects is someone stronger than her. I don't mean muscle wise, but in other ways. If the H shows any doormat behavior, she is disgusted by it. She will take advantage in every way she can. And, that's one reason the H can't be bosom buddies with her. He has the idea it will lead to a reconciliation. However, if she is being unfaithful to him, she's just going to use him for a babysitter, cook & house cleaner, etc. In my opinion, in-house separation while she continues her affair......will never cause her to see you with respectful eyes. Does this make sense?
You determine the border by how it makes you feel. Boundaries are used to protect your feelings. If she's doing something that causes you to feel disrespected, then call her out about it. For example, laying out her intimate apparel she intends wearing while she's with OM, is a sign she is not considering your feelings. I'm not saying that calling her out will stop her from doing it...….but you can at least speak up. The ultimate disrespect is her cheating, and compared to that.....these other things may seem small. I tell people that if the WW does not have consequences for not honoring her H's boundaries, then their is no point in voicing them. Once she's in an active affair, she's not going to honor many boundaries, if there is no backlash on her.
I'm getting a little off the subject of your question. You want to know how to balance showing yourself as a confident, peaceful, man who portrays a positive mental attitude...…...and when he's going too far and looking like a nut. I get it. It's hard for me to know how to sum it up in a few words. I believe you have to determine how you are going to conduct yourself, and act accordingly, rather than conducting yourself to win her approval. We try to tell you how to be the best version of yourself. You determine what that best version is. She doesn't get to determine it. Make sense? I think this helps you find the border in many of these situations.
I also think all of this is particular difficult for a "nice" guy. If we tell him not to sweat the small stuff, he won't call WW's hand on anything. If we tell him to not allow the least little grumpy word, he blows it out of proportion. So, I guess you'll have to give us some examples and/or ask about particular actions.
He has to know his own self value and live by his belief system, morals, principles, etc. He has to base his decisions on these, rather than basing decisions or actions to appease his cheating, disrespectful WW. He has to stop doing the actions he thinks will "win her back", b/c it doesn't. It only pushes her further away. He has to have dignity. He can't compromise his integrity. He has to let her go, in the sense that he's not making her the center of the universe. As long as he feels desperate to hang on to her, he will not behave as an attractive male.
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Tonight she will be going to OM again, and whenever she does, she becomes real distant and cold in the hours before leaving. Yesterday she wasn't going anywhere, and I had a late meeting a work, when I came home she had kept food warm for me in the oven, and sat down to eat with me.. I am so confused to this behavior. I just thanked her for making me dinner, and then ate and headed out to the gym.
This is the behavior of a WW. As long as everything goes her way, she's usually fine & dandy. Many WW's are very manipulative, and they know exactly what to do with the H to get whatever they want. If she's having sex with the OM, then she is usually going to be cold to her H. She does not operate logically. Everything is based on her emotions in that moment. Her H is not going to understand her up & down moods, b/c he's looking at her behavior to direct him about the relationship. That's why you cannot believe what she says, and very little of what she does.
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(yea she insists on packing my lunchbox still - should I just tell her; no thank you?"
If she wants to fix your lunch, that's fine...….just as long you as you understand it doesn't mean a thing. It is no sign that she still has feelings for you, or that things are better. It's just the way many WW's act, in order to keep the H emotionally attached.
By the way, WW's have very, very little guilty feelings. Why? B/c they see themselves as justified. Hopefully, some day she will feel remorse, but currently...….she doesn't. I talk more about this in my WW threads. This is the link to the first one:
Thank you so much for that very thoroughly written and very helpful input and insight into my very messy life at this point of time .
I honestly have been reading your post 3-4 times this morning, and every time I find myself nodding and realizing that both parts involving me and my WW are spot on.
I had a great sleep after setting boundaries and speaking up for my self yesterday, throwing her out of the MBR and cut her off financially.
And now it gets really interesting.....
This morning she came in, and told me, that she would not be leaving home sunday through wednesday, as she had planned to. In fact she would not be going there anymore. Then she burst in tears and excused herself. I asked her if she was okay to which she replied no, not at all.. I didn't respond to her answer nor did I comfort her in any ways. I just made breakfast for me and the kids and attended to their needs and my own.
She proceeded to delete all the calendar dates where she was supposed to leave the house to be with OM.
How do I proceed from here? I guess she is the one that i supposed to be showing interest in me if there is to be something to work on, and if not, then I just proceed with detaching, 180 and having the real estate broker over this sunday?
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Then she burst in tears and excused herself. I asked her if she was okay to which she replied no, not at all.. I didn't respond to her answer nor did I comfort her in any ways. I just made breakfast for me and the kids and attended to their needs and my own.
She proceeded to delete all the calendar dates where she was supposed to leave the house to be with OM.
You proceed with strength and zero toleration of this BS behavior. Writing on the family calendar nights she's staying at OMs. WTF? If it was me I would set that calendar on fire.
The tears are fake so I wouldn't put much stock into it.
You are on the right path. Boundaries, boundaries and boundaries.
Believe nothing she says, and only half of what she does. Now that you have grown back your balls and started to assert yourself, be prepared for her to go into stealth mode. Where before she was open and blatant because you were letting her get away with it, now she will probably be more discrete, and start hiding her rendezvouses.
At this point, most LBS ask "when will I know she really has changed and given up the OM". The answer is you will know when her behavior is consistent (no unexplained absences, etc) for a long period of time. Think months, or even a year or more.
Until then it is nothing more than lies and manipulations. So don't be ready to give in too quickly to "changes" she says she is making.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
According to Sandi rules, I should show that I am content, happy and moving forward - I should be nice and friendly - however I am having a real hard time figuring out where the "border" between detaching from our old life and showing her that I don't really care but still act friendly and nice. - You talk about throwing her out of the bedroom (we are taking turns sleeping in the bedroom of the youngest child - should I tell her to move there permanently, and is that not going against sandi's rule about being cordial and not arguing, being happy and content?
Some here do suggest kicking a WAS out of the bedroom. Personally my attitude is that YOU don't leave, but you leave it to them as to what they want to do. So personally I don't believe in kicking her out, but I fully believe in shutting her down if she tries to kick you out. The thing about dealing with a WAS is they think the LBS is controlling and manipulative. So to do a 180 on that you've got to leave her alone and let her make her own decisions whether you think they are smart or stupid, good or bad. She says she doesn't want to sleep in the same bed with you? Tell her you are not going anywhere, but that she is welcome to sleep there, or in the basement, or on the back porch or the roof or wherever. It's her choice. Same thing if she says she wants S or D, you tell her it's not what you want but you will respect her wishes and allow her to leave. But YOU stay put (assuming you can financially).
Anyway you did boot her out of the bedroom and I am not telling you that was wrong (particularly since she is a WW rather than WAS), now that you've done it then stick to your guns. Because consistency is very important, and very difficult for a LBS because they want to try every trick and technique they can to see if anything "works" (but it doesn't in the short term, because there is no magic trick).
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What about daily life? today we have gymnastics (don't know if that is the right word for it in english) with the little ones, and she wants to come, do I tell her, yes sure, lets go play family? or do I just tell her, we don't do this anymore? I am having a hard time finding the balance in this 180.. How much "family" do I play with her?
That's the correct word. OK so in general the rule is don't ask her out on dates, but if you are going to do something and she wants to come along then that's fine. But you go whether she goes or not. Your attitude should be you don't care whether she goes or not.
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She apparently found my letter this morning when she packed the bags for work (yea she insists on packing my lunchbox still - should I just tell her; no thank you?" She asked if the letter was for her? (it was in an envelope with her name on it) - She seemed genuinely happy and interested in it, however I told her no it wasn't. She then responded "well, it has my name on it..." and then left it with that comment - should I just destroy the letter ? (the one that informs her, of the fact that I am moving on now with the kids because she is so infatuated and out of reach that we are not compatible at this point).
Good grief yes, get rid of it! Where in the world did you leave it where she just happened to see it? And why? Ask yourself that, because I'm thinking you wanted her to find it. Do not ever discuss the contents with her. If she keeps bugging you about it just say you had written some thoughts down but in retrospect you realize it was more for you than her and you have since destroyed it.
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Tonight she will be going to OM again, and whenever she does, she becomes real distant and cold in the hours before leaving. Yesterday she wasn't going anywhere, and I had a late meeting a work, when I came home she had kept food warm for me in the oven, and sat down to eat with me.. I am so confused to this behavior.
Are you? Even though we just explained cake-eating to you? Because what you describe is 100% consistent with a WW's cake-eating practices.
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This morning she came in, and told me, that she would not be leaving home sunday through wednesday, as she had planned to. In fact she would not be going there anymore. Then she burst in tears and excused herself. I asked her if she was okay to which she replied no, not at all.. I didn't respond to her answer nor did I comfort her in any ways. I just made breakfast for me and the kids and attended to their needs and my own.
She proceeded to delete all the calendar dates where she was supposed to leave the house to be with OM.
How do I proceed from here?
You keep doing what you are doing and treating her like the WAYWARD wife that she is. Because she still is. It is not at all unusual for a wayward to put on this big act of "ditching OM" only to go deeper undercover with the affair. OM is like a drug and your W is an addict. All addicts can quit for an hour or two or three and make a big show of throwing out their needles and crying and saying they are done with it all. But then the withdrawals start, and 99% of them are right back at it.
So basically she has been moping around the house acting like a sad puppy for the last 24 hours. I suspect that it is in fact OM who ended things btetween them as she was really hooked on abandoning us all for her new endeavors with him.
Last night I arrived home from the gym to find her in the couch all packed up in blankets and looking like crap. I sat down for 30 minutes, had a bite to eat, and she asked me how my training went and acted all polite, but didn't talk at all about us or the OM, so I just ignored every urge to talk to her, and told her I would call it an early night and went to bed.
She was really active on the phone, and I saw that she were engaged in a heavy texting correspondence, so I suspect she is either trying to sort things out with OM or seeking support from her girlfriends - not my problem i told my self.
This morning she wandered around the house in a towel after having showered, I couldn't help but notice of course. I didn't say anything though.
Tonight she is going to be heading out to a mutual friends house probably to get emotional support - I am going to continue 180 and detach until she comes around, or not. Either way the house is going for sale on sunday.
I am 100 % positive that she is still in contact with OM on the phone (maybe elsewhere as well) so I am not having my hopes up just because she came home and said she wouldn't be going there anymore...
Am I doing the right thing?
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
The tears, taking things off the calendar, mopping around the house...….the whole thing is a performance for you. She knows you are a nice guy and she's going to push those NG buttons. As crazy as it sounds, she (the adulterer) wants you to feel sorry for her. She wants you to feel that you are being too hard on her. Listen, nothing is more self centered than a WW. Give her zero attention when she is crying and mopping. Let her have a pity party for one.
Here's the thing about WW's. The H has to behave as if he is fed up with her behavior. He isn't impressed or concerned with what he sees in her, until she's willing to do the right thing (end the affair). The mistake most LBH's initially make is trying to show his WW that they can save the MR, that he can be Mr. Wonderful, and live happily ever after. Some H's may actually try to compromise with the WW, even though he knows she's in an affair. These actions are not effective b/c it tells her that he is willing to endure her disrespect. Before he can have a successful reconciliation, she has to be convinced that he will not compromise with her adulterous behavior, and that he is not going to shower her with love while she disrespects him.
The H must set boundaries, but he must understand how it works before he starts shooting off his mouth. Boundaries are not to control what she does, but they are to protect your feelings. If she honors your boundary, fine. If she doesn't honor them, then there should be some sort of consequences. That's the only effective way the WW learns how to respect her H's boundaries. Therefore, before you start crowing about a bunch of "boundaries" to her, discuss with the board first.
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I suspect that it is in fact OM who ended things btetween them as she was really hooked on abandoning us all for her new endeavors with him.
Even if that's the case, it doesn't mean she is anywhere near being over him. Affairs are addictive, and she will try to keep contacting him. If he's really through with her, then she might try to find OM2. Just don't want you getting high hopes just yet. They may have had a "lover's spat". The last thing you need to do is comfort her for feeling so badly cause her & lover boy are finished (if that's the case). Neither should you act excited, b/c she will act even more wayward to prove to you that the M is over. Just don't show her any emotion one way or the other.
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I sat down for 30 minutes, had a bite to eat, and she asked me how my training went and acted all polite, but didn't talk at all about us or the OM, so I just ignored every urge to talk to her, and told her I would call it an early night and went to bed.
Fantastic!
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This morning she wandered around the house in a towel after having showered, I couldn't help but notice of course. I didn't say anything though.
Just act as if you don't notice a thing. Look, the H is the WW's backup plan, and she will do things to keep that backup plan secured...….if you know what I mean. If she feels her world is a little shaky right now, she could be thinking, "I better keep hubby interested so I don't kicked out to the curb". The WW wants what benefits her, and she's going to look out for number one.
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Tonight she is going to be heading out to a mutual friends house probably to get emotional support - I am going to continue 180 and detach until she comes around, or not.
You are probably correct about the emotional support from her friends.
What 180's are you doing? That's a good start, but you left out GAL. When you are truly getting enough GAL, you will feel differently about yourself (upbeat, confident, decisive, attractive, etc.). It is the ingredient that helps you more forward and upward.
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Am I doing the right thing?
Yes, as long as you don't have the mindset that you are trying to get good enough for her to pick you, rather than the OM. I think one of the traps that H's with NGS fall into the most when facing the possibility of D, is trying to get good enough to win the WW. It doesn't work. What does work is for her to see him being strong enough to dump her. As long as she sees him being the grieving H who is patiently waiting for her to come around...….she's not worried about him being there. Know what I mean? Remember, she's not the prize. You are!
So, if the house sells right away, what are your plans?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I will admit, that it made me happy that she announced that she would not be going to OM no more, however I see your logic, and I will continue, and am glad, that I chose to ignore her and that my focus is 95% (getting there) on me and my kids.
I am working out 4 times a week after work, doing gymnastics with my kids, being with friends and family in the weekends and I play golf 2 - 3 times a week. First I did this only to get away from home and I came to the realization that I lost out on a lot of time with my kids by acting like this. Now I try to include my kids a lot more in my GAL, and I seem to have found a nice balance (still work in progress).
My weeks are actually quite filled with activities involving both my kids, but also activities that are just for me and my friends. (golf, gym, going out).
If the house sells quick (as we suspect it will), then I will be moving into a rental close to my WW so the kids are close, and then I will proceed to detach, do 180 and basically my logic is - If she wants to be with me, she will have to show it. I fought for 3 months now, and it is her time to take over, if not, then I will find happiness elsewhere I am sure.
Most important thing for me right now, is the happiness and secured future of my two little ones.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
So much not has happened. I have been trying to detach, mind my own business and have fun with my kids.
WW has not been being OM as far as i've been concerned since she announced, that she would not be going there anymore.
Today she has frantically been cleaning the house and making ready for the real estate broker tomorrow. She removed several pictures of her and me, which hurt my feelings, but I did not mention it. She told me again the other day, that her feelings are gone, and she is unsure if it is possible for said feelings to return? - I had no answer to give her so I said, I understand your uncertainty, however I am in no position to tell you how the future pans out - life is about taking a leap of faith from time to time, however the decision lies with her.
Right now I feel like, she does not feel anything towards me, which is maybe caused by the fact that she is so full of feelings towards the OM even though they are not currently seeing each other. She also told me, that she really has a strong desire to live by herself, make all decisions by herself and so on (I find that to be childish, when you are settled with two kids and a family) - I did not tell her that of course.
Tomorrow the real estate broker gets here - she asked if we should watch a movie tonight. I have no plans, so I said that I didn't know yet, but maybe - bad idea? She is trying to engage in a lot of conversation - I am answering in short replies, but im trying to be contempt, happy and act like nothing is bothering me, even though the "deadline" of the house going for sale is really getting close now.
Am I throwing in the towel at this point?
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Yes she likely doesn't feel much for you right now but the problem is that's exactly what happens when anyone starts loving someone else has sex with them and then interacts very little with her H. Of course you can't tell her this! She still longs for OM. If he does stay away and OM2 doesn't appear then you may have a chance again if that happens spending time together is the best way for her to build back feelings - and they can come back, she just doesn't believe that.
So what do you do? I think you are already doing well. If you really have no plans and she asks to watch a movie MWD and DBing say to do that. Just dont put any expectations on this. Be light, upbeat and fun. This is a chance to show her what she'll be missing and for those feelings to return. Be the guy she fell in love with. A fun night with zero pressure or expectation may get her to think, hmmmm that was fun and I don't feel pressure, I'd like todo that again. If that happens enough it will help. Now if you do - no R talk no talk about the house or OM. Don't be her GF. If she goes there say "I thought we were just watching a movie" don't let her cry on your shoulder. This should simply be a fun date - that's it.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
She removed several pictures of her and me, which hurt my feelings, but I did not mention it.
Good!
The WW and LBH are emotionally disconnected. The H tends to watch his W's reaction to almost everything said & done. My advice to you is to keep a poker face. She's not going to make any decisions based on your feelings, anyway. That may sound cold, but the WW is cold. This is not the same girl that you married.
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Am I throwing in the towel at this point?
What does that mean? Does it mean you stop pursuing her? Does it mean you stop trying to persuade her to change her mind? Does it mean you stop acting desperate? She knows you don't want a D. She knows she has hurt you. She has a mind of her own. You didn't give up...….she did. You didn't throw in the towel...….she did.
One of the biggest mistakes that H's make after the OM has dumped the WW, is allowing her to simply continue living with him......without requiring anything from her. Some H's think if the affair is over, then they can pick up where ever the MR left off. The WW would love those options! She doesn't want to be remorseful, responsible, accountable, or do any emotional hard work on her end. If the H "plays happy family" with her without requiring total transparency, MC, etc...…...it will only be a matter of time until things will fold. Why, b/c she is basically cake eating whenever she doesn't have to do the necessary work to help repair the damage she's caused. It's one thing if she is willing to do whatever is necessary...….but it's entirely another thing to just continue on as though nothing has happened. Make sense?
Until the house sells, my suggestion is that you don't discuss your feelings with her. If she wants to talk, then you listen. If you don't hear a very humble apology, and you don't see any change in her attitude toward you......then chances are she is holding out for OM. If the family eats together, then I suggest you try to have a pleasant atmosphere for the sake of the children. If you are watching tv with the kids, and the W joins, then fine. But for just the two of you to spend time watching tv together, or sharing much of anything else apart from the kids...makes a loud statement that you are okay with her. It gives her the message that you will settle for whatever she decides to give. That's why she is still voicing how she has no feelings for you, and how she wants to live on her own, etc. She is pretty sure that your feelings for her have not changed. Why do you suppose she senses that you want to keep the MR?
Don't tell her what you want, or even what you would need if the MR resumes......unless she seriously asks what it would take. If she goes to you and asks what she needs to do to make things right, then tell her what you need (whatever it is),.......and add that you'll need her willingness to be completely transparent (on your terms) and to cooperate with a MC. She can't dictate the terms, b/c she is the one who betrayed the MR. It will take time for her feelings to match her actions, but if she is "willing" to do the work, it can happen. It's not easy for the WW to agree, and she may accuse you of trying to control, having no privacy, etc. Well, that's too bad. If she wants a M with you, then she's got to forfeit privacy privileges until you decide she no longer has a hidden agenda. That usually takes 2-3 years, based on the accounts I've read.
Remember, you are not the cheater. Don't think by you agreeing to compromise with her will cause her to do the right thing or have the right feelings toward you. It won't.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So today we had the real estate broker come by and do a (i don't know the word for this i english) screening of the house to set a market value: We were pleased by the fact that we have a house that is sought after currently, and he thinks it will sell very quickly if he gets to put it out there (the price will even make it, so that both of us gets out of this without any financial set back). WW was very happy at first about the pricing and the fact that this most likely won't take long.
After the broker left, we sat down (WW's request), and we talked. I have been "taking over" the conversations for a long time, where when we talked, I would all of a sudden be the one talking, cause I would be voicing my own opinions - that changed today, I listened to her opinions, validated to the best of my skills and showed her, that I was actually giving her my 100% attention when she spoke.
First, we talked about the meeting we just had, and that we were content with the pricing and the fact that this wouldn't drag out (I told her, that if that was how she felt, then alright). She then proceeded to tell me, that she would really like it if we could wait until after Christmas to put the house on the market (she didn't want to give me false hopes for anything) but she was in "no hurry". I said I heard what she was saying, but I would have to think about it.
Then she began talking about me and her, and how things had turned bad, I just listened, and didn't try to alter her opinion. She then proceeded to talk about the OM, how he had given her the things I was not able to when I was sick and how she desperately had longed for it. How she had envisioned her and him being the future, and then how he had ended things and not her. They are not in contact as of now (but I know they will be no later than next week with work related stuff). She said she hated him for it and that she was sure, that he was clearly not over his divorce yet, however if he wrote to her, she didn't know if she would go back to him, however as of now, she really hated him - I just listened, but I absolutely did not validate or show sympathy towards that part of the conversation, I just let her talk.
She began talking about how, maybe her and I, really just would be better of, if we went on a holiday just the two of us to somewhere - because that was what had been neglected for so long. It had been all about the children and not us. I listened, and validated her opinions. She talked about how she was afraid to start over with me, because she would be afraid to meet someone, and then be a bad person and do this all over again (she then burst in tears), I just listened.
She talked about selling the house, buying an apartment, living there for a couple of years as a family, solving the puzzle, rekindle the flame, and then build a new house in a new town. I listened.
Tonight she came in and for the first time in 3 months, she tugged herself in next to me in the couch under the blankets, but then immediately fell asleep. I didn't read anything special into it, as the only thing im currently working is: 180, GAL, be the best dad I can be and detaching. The reason for this is also that she stated that she didn't know how she would respond if OM decided to reengage contact - I am not a standby, never will be so im staying on course.
As always, comments are REALLY appreciated and helps me a lot in this mess.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I am so glad, that I did not engage in her conversation yesterday. This morning she left for an early morning meeting. When i poured the cereal for the kids, her phone lit up, and guess what, OM and her apparently reengaged contact over night and are now snapchatting like mad. I would be lying if I said that it wasn't hurtful to see (mainly at this point, because she was so sincere that they were not talking anymore, and she lied straight to my face - I hate liars). She asked me what was wrong, and I said she was perfectly aware, but it didn't matter. She said she had no idea and if I was questioning the fact that she had a morning meeting. I replied that I didn't, and im sure she knew deep down inside what was wrong, and that it didn't matter anymore. Then she up and left in a hurry - She is displaying all the things we have discussed, and im so glad I didn't let my self get dragged back in - now off to a great day, won't be home before late tonight, and then gym time, and straight to bed - I don't even want to make the effort of sitting in the living room with her tonight, at this point she isn't really worth my time, and if she wants, she can ask for mine.
Have a great day.
Last edited by Hurt213; 11/05/1806:08 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
So she wrote me a text while I was in my car: She said that she had realized that OMs name was on her phone and I must've seen it as it said "xxxx is typing..." in a snapchat window...
She then wrote that she in fact did not have any contact with him since the middle of last week, and therefore she hadn't been lying to me about it yesterday. She told me that she didn't know where she stood with OM at this point in time, wether she wanted to be with him or not.
I did not respond to the text but simply deleted it.
I was fed up with the lying, so as you know from my thread, i kicked her out of the MBR last week. Yesterday we had a the broker coming by, so we had the mattress she is sleeping on in sons bedroom back in MBR so it looked nice. I told her yesterday that she could just sleep in the MBR, and I would take the couch (yea full retard move by me - weak and won't happen again). She left early this morning, so I pulled the mattress back into sons bedroom.
I then proceeded to remove all the things from her closets (clothes, underwear, jackets, shirts, the whole lot), i boxed it, and put it into sons room (he is 1 years old so it won't affect him). So now the only thing in MBR are my things.
I removed her perfumes, make up and everything that is hers from the master bathroom (as she had been putting some stuff back), and moved them back into the guest bathroom, now there are only my things in that wing.
She will be home today before me. I don't know if I reacted out of way, but as I see it. She is exploring (cake eating) and I am fed up with that behavior. She either chooses to be with us, or we do like this, and stop playing family.
I will be content, smiling and generally look happy around her - but I will tell her, that she can't have both things at once, and that is why I removed her things - bad idea? good idea?
Would appreciate some insight before I need to talk to her later .
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I so understand where the need to remove her things from your room came from. I have been there. I took down every photo of H when he MO. I didn't say anything, but I placed them all, still in their frames, in his wardrobe at the front where he would see them. He took these photos to his flat with him. I assume he has them in a drawer somewhere.
When 7 months later I found out he had started dating, I went into every drawer and photo album and shredded every single photo of us from before we had children. I kept the ones post kids as (even in my madness) I knew the kids would want these someday.
A part of me wanted him to know what I had done. To hurt him as much as he had hurt me. To show that I cared as little about our shared memories as he did. This is not detachment. Detachment is living the fullest life you can without caring either way how your actions impact her. It is to get to place, where her actions no longer impact you.
If you moved her things so you have a place which is just yours, away from the madness of everything, then it was the right thing to do. But if you did it purely to get a reaction, then you are not yet detached.
I would not mention it to her at all.
I found out recently (from our cleaner who saw him put them in his car) that he had been in the MBR for 2 hours before with the door shut and when he came out his eyes were red and he looked devastated. This did not bring me any satisfaction. Like many things I have done out of anger or spite, I wish I had not done it.
I actually had no intentions of getting a reaction out of her, by doing this. I am not trying to be cruel or get her to second-guess her choices - I am just fed up with having to look at her underwear, her new dresses, and all her different clothings that she lays out on the bed whenever she decides to go to OM.
For me it is about having a place for me, that is exactly as you described it, just a zone where I can go to, relax, and be me. I feel like im suffocating having to sit in the living room with her in this fake limbo state every night I don't have plans - i'd rather have the option to go be for my self.
I am done with being the nice guy who lets her cake eat (go to OM at night, come back and play family with us). I am and will continue to grow to be a person I like to be, I have dreams for me and my kids, and I will do anything in the world to make them happen. I won't let my thoughts be clouded by her yoyo treatment of me nor will I accept it anymore.
What im saying is basically, that I will threat her with respect, smile and let her talk if she wants - if not, then I will just do me and my kids thing, and slowly but steady go to a better place. I won't be the one engaging in anymore conversations about us, nor will I initiate conversations, but of course I will answer content and happy if the questions are valid. I will not interfere with her life, and I will speak up if she decides to cross my boundaries.
So the advice is not to tell her, why I moved her things out of the master bath/bedroom?
I hope it makes sense.
Last edited by Hurt213; 11/05/1811:42 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
She then wrote that she in fact did not have any contact with him since the middle of last week, and therefore she hadn't been lying to me about it yesterday. She told me that she didn't know where she stood with OM at this point in time, whether she wanted to be with him or not.
When I read comments like the one above I get very angry. You did the right thing and unless she is completely oblivious she will no why. I think you should have taken it further and moved it into the garage and asked her when she will be moving out.
Originally Posted by Hurt213
What im saying is basically, that I will threat her with respect, smile and let her talk if she wants - if not, then I will just do me and my kids thing, and slowly but steady go to a better place. I won't be the one engaging in anymore conversations about us, nor will I initiate conversations, but of course I will answer content and happy if the questions are valid. I will not interfere with her life, and I will speak up if she decides to cross my boundaries.
What do you mean treat her with respect? What would be a valid question? What are your boundaries?
So the advice is not to tell her, why I moved her things out of the master bath/bedroom?
She will know why. That doesn't mean she won't react to it. I suggest you have a statement ready, just in case. Something like, "If we aren't going to have a respectable M, then I see no point in sharing the MBR", or "I have decided not to share my bed with a W who doesn't respect me".
More than likely, she'll have some b.s. story.....and expect you to buy it. At this point, she must see you as a man who is rejecting her crumbs. Don't start telling her what you want, b/c she already knows. The less you open your mouth, the better. When she gets serious enough......she'll know what to do. Currently, she's playing you like a fool. All that bait she dangled at you was nothing but fool's bait. She will continue playing you, until you decide you are done with it.
I don't know your W, and she may come at you hard. I've seen some women put their things back in the MBR, and if the H tries to interfere, she calls the cops. You have to think beyond the action you've taken. There may or may not be any backlash. If she moves her things back into the MBR, so be it. You don't want it to lead to some type of domestic call to the cops, b/c it doesn't usually go in the man's favor. Be smart.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
She said she hated him for it and that she was sure, that he was clearly not over his divorce yet, however if he wrote to her, she didn't know if she would go back to him, however as of now, she really hated him - I just listened, but I absolutely did not validate or show sympathy towards that part of the conversation, I just let her talk.
GOOD! Validation has its place but NOTHING regarding OP should be validated, ever. It's OK to sympathize with her feelings in regards to why she became a WAS, but that doesn't mean you should validate the WRONG things she does after becoming a WAS.
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She then wrote that she in fact did not have any contact with him since the middle of last week, and therefore she hadn't been lying to me about it yesterday.
OMG. I swear the way some WAS's think is just astounding. She talked to him all night and all morning but that is OK because yesterday she hadn't talked to him a few days so technically it's not lying. THAT IS BS. Absence of info is STILL lying. The moment she reestablished contact with him and didn't inform you about it AFTER SAYING IT WAS OVER ONLY HOURS BEFORE she entered the Liar Zone.
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She told me that she didn't know where she stood with OM at this point in time, wether she wanted to be with him or not.
I did not respond to the text but simply deleted it.
That is good but you need to back that up with complete darkness. Zero contact, no cuddling on the couch, no long talks. Just shut the door on all of that because you need to send her a clear message- you want nothing to do with a lying cheater. Period.
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She will be home today before me. I don't know if I reacted out of way, but as I see it. She is exploring (cake eating) and I am fed up with that behavior. She either chooses to be with us, or we do like this, and stop playing family.
I will be content, smiling and generally look happy around her - but I will tell her, that she can't have both things at once, and that is why I removed her things - bad idea? good idea?
I think it's a good idea but I would refrain from putting on a happy face around her. Be stern and unmoving. You're sending her a message that the cake-eating is over. And that's a message she needs to hear AND see.
So I came home yesterday, and she didn't mention anything regarding the fact that I "moved her" out of the bath/bedroom. She served me dinner in fact, and told me she made my lunch for the following day. I said "thank you", and that was it from me. I then tugged in my kids and headed out for the gym and followed that up with a coffee afterwards with a friend.
When I came home around 20.00 p.m. she was on the phone with a colleague, who has been her support pillow through all of this according to her (surprise, she is also a newly divorcee).. She was acting and sounding all happy, and the spoke for 30 minutes, while I sat down and got a bite and got some late work done - then I proceeded to go to bed without telling her, i just left the room.
She is acting like nothing has happened - I am really putting up a "facade" showing her, that I will take no more, and I am not interested in small talk. She keeps asking questions though, but she really seems or acts to be not bothered at all by the fact that I "switched gears". This morning we exchanged what I think must've been no more than two words, and off she went. I know I shouldn't think about her feelings and doings, but im working on it - it is tough to just kill the switch. I will continue to pay attention to me and the kids, and only engage in conversations with her, when it is regarding financial things or related to the kids - is this the right way to go about it ?
Thanks
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
First time writing to you Hurt. Sorry and glad you are here
There are too many she on your posts. It’s about you now. Detach more, get your respect back. Keep reading the forum. You are being coached by the heavies here. It’s like riding a space rocket, feel the power.
Keep DB man, be there for your kids, keep posting. Remember it’s a marathon, you are not in a hurry.
Detach and GAL. Stay strong.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
So yesterday I came home from work and took the kids to gymnastics. WW was having a mutual girlfriend over for dinner, and they cooked while I was out.
The girlfriend had informed me beforehand, of the fact that she found WWs behaviour repulsive, and that whenever she (WW) was seeking advice regarding her situation, she wouldn't listen, when the advice she got, was not compatible with her view on what was right to do - so the mutual friend was really fed up with her. She told me, that she was going to tell her straight yesterday night - I had dinner with them, which was surprisingly fun. We all had a good and light conversation. The mutual friend of ours, asked what I was doing for New Years eve, because if I didn't have plans, I should come and celebrate with them - WW instantly said, that we could just bring the kids fold-up-beds, and then we could all play games, eat dinner and celebrate (me and friend just looked at each other, cause nobody invited her in the first place - however she still acts like "its family time").
I left to GAL with some friends after having tugged in the kids, and left them to talk. Our friend texted me later, and told me that WW is not mad at me for having taken her things and moved them out of the bedroom, only problem is that it is hard for her to find her stuff when she needs them - but she understands how I need to get some space from her (what does this mean?)
She also said, that OM had texted her yesterday and once again "spread a doubt about wether he wanted to be with her or not", WW had said that he was clearly using her for his own needs, and would throw her away again as soon as he got bored, as he had already done twice - WW said that it was because he was confused. They apparently are going to meet in the near future and talk things through (Guess round 3 is inbound).
This morning, she hardly said anything, she even passed right by me, without saying good morning. She is acting really cold and distant, and I seem to be a nuisance to her at the moment.
I am finding it hard to figure out how to 180 correct since: being reserved, not telling her how I feel, not flirting enough and not showing her affection has been things she pointed out was missing, and was things she needed.
But it goes against the principles of showing her that im moving on, to give her those things, so how do i show her that i've changed, and am able to do those things but at the same time, i don't? I really need advice on how to 180 that behaviour.
Thank you.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
You can chase her but she wants to be with another man, sorry to tell you. So doing that you’ll push her away. It’s time to became amoafwl (a man only a fool would leave) and show her what she’ll miss. Keep DB at the max, the chance is there. Detach, GAL and move forward H.
Stay strong!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
I am finding it hard to figure out how to 180 correct since: being reserved, not telling her how I feel, not flirting enough and not showing her affection has been things she pointed out was missing, and was things she needed.
WTF? She is choosing another man over you who is apparently a Dbag. This is not a competition she is your W. Why are you having dinner with them? Sorry this is harsh but the lack of respect you have for yourself is troubling.
You have to find a way to get your mojo back. She has 0 respect for you and if she doesn't respect you she will never love you.
The girlfriend had informed me beforehand, of the fact that she found WWs behaviour repulsive, and that whenever she (WW) was seeking advice regarding her situation, she wouldn't listen, when the advice she got, was not compatible with her view on what was right to do - so the mutual friend was really fed up with her. She told me, that she was going to tell her straight yesterday night -
WHAT???? Why are you talking to W's gf? STOP THAT! Do not discuss your situation with ANY mutual friends. Come here or talk to someone who has no connection to your W.
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I had dinner with them, which was surprisingly fun. We all had a good and light conversation. The mutual friend of ours, asked what I was doing for New Years eve, because if I didn't have plans, I should come and celebrate with them - WW instantly said, that we could just bring the kids fold-up-beds, and then we could all play games, eat dinner and celebrate (me and friend just looked at each other, cause nobody invited her in the first place - however she still acts like "its family time").
So you kicked her out of the MBR and bathroom, actually moved her stuff out yourself, and now you're having a fun dinner and good conversation with her and her bestie. Does this sound like consistent behavior to you? Because to me it sounds like you are sending some very confusing mixed signals out.
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Our friend texted me later, and told me that WW is not mad at me for having taken her things and moved them out of the bedroom, only problem is that it is hard for her to find her stuff when she needs them - but she understands how I need to get some space from her (what does this mean?)
You kicked her out and she thinks you did it because you need space. What's hard to understand? Oh and in case I didn't say it loud enough STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR SITCH TO HER GF.
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I am finding it hard to figure out how to 180 correct since: being reserved, not telling her how I feel, not flirting enough and not showing her affection has been things she pointed out was missing, and was things she needed.
What you have to understand is she is a lying, cheating, WAS. She's telling you these things not because she wants you to fix them, but because she wants to lay the blame for her affair and bad choices on your doorstep. These are NOT things you want to 180 on right now, to her it will just look pathetic, desperate and like "too little too late". Plus it would just be inviting her to make you a doormat.
I can see how it is a complete retard move to set boundaries (kicking her out), to then follow it up by having a meal with her and our mutual friend the following day - however we are eating dinner together everyday for the kids sake.
I need to grab myself by the b@lls, and stop doing what I think she wants me to do - I need to 180 on that nice guy behaviour, and then do things that I enjoy for my sake, not hers. I have been having problems eating right for a long time due to chronic illness, and therefore I have been skinny and well not really taking good care of myself.
For the past 3 months since she broke the news, I have been heading to the gym 4 - 5 times a week and it has been my main GAL activity. I have gained 8-10 kg's of body mass, and due to low body fat, my workouts are really showing on my body which is a huge confidence boost. I have been engaging in small talk with some really attractive ladies at the gym, whom I would have never dared engaging just 4 months ago due to low self esteem.
Today she asked me to to groceries for her, and yesterday and all the days before, I would had just said "yes of course", however today I told her "I have plans with the kids, and you need to do them yourself", she then sent 3 texts and I just replied once with a "thank you" because she said, "I hope you have a good time, doing whatever you are going to do".
She has been trying to engage in ALOT of small talk tonight - saying how it will be nice for the kids to go to a larger city once we split up, because they will have more friends and better opportunities so basically she said it is a blessing that she decided to end the family life here.
She also thinks it is really nice that the broker valuated the house at a better price than we paid for it, so that she can get on her merry way with no debt. She asked if it wasn't wonderful - I said "I can understand how you feel that, however I don't feel the same, since I see the cost to the broker of 12.000 dollars as a complete waste of money we had been saving up. She didn't really care about that, she just wanted to get on with her life now.
I try to just listen to her when she talks, however I try to spend as little time in the same room as her as possible, and just acting content and happy when I am in the house.
Is there anything else I should be aware of / be doing differently?
I really really appreciate all the input and guidance, also the rough ones because I then clearly know that I did something wrong.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
For the past 3 months since she broke the news, I have been heading to the gym 4 - 5 times a week and it has been my main GAL activity. I have gained 8-10 kg's of body mass, and due to low body fat, my workouts are really showing on my body which is a huge confidence boost. I have been engaging in small talk with some really attractive ladies at the gym, whom I would have never dared engaging just 4 months ago due to low self esteem.
This is good stuff. You should be exercising your mind, body and soul everyday.
Originally Posted by Hurt213
Today she asked me to to groceries for her, and yesterday and all the days before, I would had just said "yes of course", however today I told her "I have plans with the kids, and you need to do them yourself", she then sent 3 texts and I just replied once with a "thank you" because she said, "I hope you have a good time, doing whatever you are going to do".
Great! "I have plans with kids" is a better answer.
I just want you to know that know matter what you think there is not anything you can do to change this around RIGHT NOW. You can really only make things worse. Take your W out of the equation. All you focus is on you and the kids.
Stay strong and take it one day at a time. I promise you that you will survive this and thrive if you do the work.
I need to grab myself by the b@lls, and stop doing what I think she wants me to do - I need to 180 on that nice guy behaviour, and then do things that I enjoy for my sake, not hers.
That's the stuff!
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For the past 3 months since she broke the news, I have been heading to the gym 4 - 5 times a week and it has been my main GAL activity. I have gained 8-10 kg's of body mass, and due to low body fat, my workouts are really showing on my body which is a huge confidence boost. I have been engaging in small talk with some really attractive ladies at the gym, whom I would have never dared engaging just 4 months ago due to low self esteem.
That's awesome too! Keep it up!
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She has been trying to engage in ALOT of small talk tonight - saying how it will be nice for the kids to go to a larger city once we split up, because they will have more friends and better opportunities so basically she said it is a blessing that she decided to end the family life here.
OK, well we do encourage listening and validating but to be clear, that doesn't extend to when she's spouting crap like this. I would be inclined to find something to do out in the garage if she starts talking like this.
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I try to just listen to her when she talks, however I try to spend as little time in the same room as her as possible, and just acting content and happy when I am in the house
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Good.
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Is there anything else I should be aware of / be doing differently?
Just keep in mind it's a long, long road. You are only a few months in which no doubt feels like forever to you, but it will take her many more months or a year or more to change her mind about you. So be patient, don't look for a lot of positive signs from her anytime soon, but don't let the negative signs bring you down because it's only a reflection of how she feels right now. It can and probably will change later.
Today was a tough day. I have spoken to our mutual friend, and told her that I no longer want / need information about WW, as it is actually not a help but it keeps me caught instead of being able to detach and find my self again.
She could see how that made sense, and promised not to relay any information regarding WW in the future, unless it was something that would be harmful to me or the kids.
She did text me (and thats when I replied the above), that WW and OM are meeting today in a forest to talk about their relationship, and that OM wants a third chance. This morning WW only had 5 minutes to help with the kids, because she was busy making herself "ready" in the bathroom. I tried not to mind and just have fun with the kids and make them ready for daycare.
When she came out of the bathroom, she looked amazing (hard to not see - yea im still detached i know, and I am working on it every day). She asked me about what my day would bring, and that today was going to be a long day at work, but her and her female colleagues would stay at school all day and have a great and fun day (yea this is when I really get angry, there is no need to lie and manipulate - I know this is the WW way, but it still hurts).
I am having a really hard time figuring out how to be around her, and maybe I am being a fool, maybe I am not understanding things right, but do I ignore her, when she asks me about things such as smalltalk and my job and whatnot? The last evenings I have been coming home from the gym and just headed straight to bed instead of staying in the living room with her - Is this what I should do ? I am still a bit confused. She is acting like she is just going to work, coming back home and being a family (cake-eating I know)... Or do I just answer short but in a happy mood?
I dont trust her one bit at this stage, I know I am in for the long run, I know I want to R as of now, but I am beginning to feel like I might be shifting - and therefore I need to attend to my needs, but I also have hope for the fact that she wakes up and wants to fight to get back on track (yes it would be her that had to prove that over a long time).
Today I am going to have fun with the kids, go to the park and feed the ducks, then dinner and when WW gets home I will be going to the gym. After gym I will be going straight to bed, I don't want to hear about her day (is this right?)
I feel like detaching = Having to ignore her requests to smalltalk, going around acting like she does not exist, even though we are in the same room?? I might be going about this wrong.
I feel more happy at the moment, looking forward to doing things on my own.
She requested that we waited till after christmas to put the house for sale, do I honor that request (if she wants to move out, she does the dirty work?) or do I push for a sale now, to show her that I am moving on ?
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
You don´t have to show her you are moving on H...you must move on now. Reinforce the GAL, get time for yourself. Don´t stay waiting for her and her schedule. She must face some family obligations too and you use that time to GAL, I mean GAL, not going to gym, GAL, catching butterflies, enlisting into volunteer firefighters or singing in a chorus. Get some social GAL by yourself, not a kids related activity.
Treat her like a good neighbour, smile but avoid her the more you can. No R talks, she is really WW. She is not your W now, she is not your friend, sorry man. She is the mother of your kids now. Hope she is able to acomplish the role.
Be there for your kids, but stand for yourself. You have the tools to get respect back, but it´s up to you. You are in control of your life. Get the strength and start moving forward.
I was a WW husband sometime ago. Of course I´m not proud of my behavior but let me say you that I recovered respect back for my wife when I saw her standing for herself, moving on and being the lighthouse for my family.
Stay strong H. You can do it. Go!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
I recovered respect back for my wife when I saw her standing for herself, moving on and being the lighthouse for my family.
HEAD SHOT
Above all you need to show her a man she can respect, even if she doesn't like your actions. Who will she respect? A man that respects himself! Ask yourself what that looks like....then do it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Today was a tough day. I have spoken to our mutual friend, and told her that I no longer want / need information about WW, as it is actually not a help but it keeps me caught instead of being able to detach and find my self again.
Great! Now be prepared to have to remind her a few times, because people like her thrive on gossip and it'll be eating her up not to be the center of attention.
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that WW and OM are meeting today in a forest to talk about their relationship, and that OM wants a third chance.
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today was going to be a long day at work, but her and her female colleagues would stay at school all day and have a great and fun day
Man this really irks me. I just hate hearing stuff like this, because it is SO INCREDIBLY DISRESPECTFUL to you! It would be better if she just said to your face that she's going to meet OM. All this sneaking around and lying is just absolutely disgusting. I hope you see that and agree with it, because that leads into this:
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I am having a really hard time figuring out how to be around her, and maybe I am being a fool, maybe I am not understanding things right, but do I ignore her, when she asks me about things such as smalltalk and my job and whatnot? The last evenings I have been coming home from the gym and just headed straight to bed instead of staying in the living room with her - Is this what I should do ? I am still a bit confused. She is acting like she is just going to work, coming back home and being a family (cake-eating I know)... Or do I just answer short but in a happy mood?
Because if you are DISGUSTED with her as you should be, then that should drive how you treat her. She doesn't deserve to be treated like your W, or even like a decent person. Maybe she was decent and will be again, but right now?
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I dont trust her one bit at this stage
Good, you definitely should not.
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Today I am going to have fun with the kids, go to the park and feed the ducks, then dinner and when WW gets home I will be going to the gym. After gym I will be going straight to bed, I don't want to hear about her day (is this right?)
Again, get disgusted with her! There is nothing wrong with that! Be completely turned off by her actions and disrespect towards you. Behave accordingly. Above all, respect yourself. Does someone who respects themselves allow themselves to be treated like this?
EDIT- just noticed Steve hit on the same point but in much shorter fashion, sometimes I get wordy
I sent the sales papers for the house to WW this morning with the following message: Hi xxxx. Here are the papers for the house, let me know if I should proceed with the sale immediately."
She wrote me a text instantly saying "weren't we going to wait with the sale for after christmas?"
I don't know what to respond....
She is currently still seing / in contact with OM, and I feel like im only giving her time to find a footing in the new relationship she is trying to evolve.
However if I push for the sale, then I am the one doing the dirty work?
Do I inform her, that I am not interested in delaying the sale, because it is only giving her time to evolve things with OM?
Im at a loss here, please help .
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I sent the sales papers for the house to WW this morning with the following message: Hi xxxx. Here are the papers for the house, let me know if I should proceed with the sale immediately."
She wrote me a text instantly saying "weren't we going to wait with the sale for after christmas?"
I don't know what to respond....
She is currently still seing / in contact with OM, and I feel like im only giving her time to find a footing in the new relationship she is trying to evolve.
However if I push for the sale, then I am the one doing the dirty work?
Do I inform her, that I am not interested in delaying the sale, because it is only giving her time to evolve things with OM?
Im at a loss here, please help .
Hurt - from reading other threads the general advice here (and granted it is normally to be with D) is that we don't push for it if we don't want it, but we also don't stand in the way.
Things will evolve with OM regardless of whether you sell the house or not. What do you want? Do you want to sell the house or are you doing it to show her there are 'consequences'.
If it were me, and granted our sitch's are not exactly the same I would respond with a "I do not want to sell the house, but if you are firm that you want to sell it, then I do not see the point of waiting as we may not get another offer for some time."
I just composed a mail the minute before you posted unfortunately:
I summed up of the things "ready2change" wrote in another forum post.
I wrote her:
"Hi xxxx.
Here are my thoughts regarding the house and other aspects of this.
Look at the papers, and tell me what you think.
You have clearly expressed, that I am not to be a part of your life anymore, and that you want out of this.
Me: I agree, this is not working for either in the current way things are.
You no longer have any interest in me.
Me:I understand, and can see why we should no longer be a thing. We both deserve to be happy.
You express that you have lost yourself in this, and have lost other opportunities in life because you were with me.
Me: I agree, and think it is best if you figure things out, without me.
Me: I see many solutions to our problems. If this is the only way, that will make you happy. Then I won't stand in your way.
You said that our relationship became routine and it was unhealthy.
Me: I agree, i need and want more excitement in my life.
You expressed that our relationship developed into something you didn't expect.
Me: It surely was not what I expected either , and I never want to get back to that situation again.
You say, that sometimes you have feelings for me, and other times you don't - you don't know how to make those feelings stay.
Me: Well, I don't know how to make them stay, but I am looking forward to having my feelings of affection returned one day.
You told how you did things with me, that you didn't really enjoy doing, but you did it for me.
Me: I appreciate your honesty. Hopefully now, you will get to do things that make you happy.
You say so many things went down over the last couple of years, that you no longer can see yourself in this relationship. Me: I can't fathom that we made it this far. I wish relationships werent this complicated.
You expressed the fact that you love / loved me. But you are eager and interested in finding out what is out there for you.
Me: I am sorry you feel that way, but I hope you find what you are looking for."
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
These are statements she has made almost identical in the past, and then I found a validation thread when reading for a good advice, and I decided to validate her opinions in a written statement. I have not previously been able to answer her on them. She mentioned 3-4 of these statements yesterday evening, but I decided to go to bed, as I didn't know how to respond and found the conversation to take turn about us, and I was not ready for that.
Last edited by Hurt213; 11/09/1811:00 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Yes I did send it. (I might have made a mistake), however, I felt really good, because it lets her know that It is okay for her to do her thing, and I am doing mine (I am beginning to believe this myself) which is a big step.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I just composed a mail the minute before you posted unfortunately:
I summed up of the things "ready2change" wrote in another forum post.
I wrote her:
"Hi xxxx.
Here are my thoughts regarding the house and other aspects of this.
Look at the papers, and tell me what you think.
You have clearly expressed, that I am not to be a part of your life anymore, and that you want out of this.
Me: I agree, this is not working for either in the current way things are.
You no longer have any interest in me.
Me:I understand, and can see why we should no longer be a thing. We both deserve to be happy.
You express that you have lost yourself in this, and have lost other opportunities in life because you were with me.
Me: I agree, and think it is best if you figure things out, without me.
Me: I see many solutions to our problems. If this is the only way, that will make you happy. Then I won't stand in your way.
You said that our relationship became routine and it was unhealthy.
Me: I agree, i need and want more excitement in my life.
You expressed that our relationship developed into something you didn't expect.
Me: It surely was not what I expected either , and I never want to get back to that situation again.
You say, that sometimes you have feelings for me, and other times you don't - you don't know how to make those feelings stay.
Me: Well, I don't know how to make them stay, but I am looking forward to having my feelings of affection returned one day.
You told how you did things with me, that you didn't really enjoy doing, but you did it for me.
Me: I appreciate your honesty. Hopefully now, you will get to do things that make you happy.
You say so many things went down over the last couple of years, that you no longer can see yourself in this relationship. Me: I can't fathom that we made it this far. I wish relationships werent this complicated.
You expressed the fact that you love / loved me. But you are eager and interested in finding out what is out there for you.
Me: I am sorry you feel that way, but I hope you find what you are looking for."
Wow!!!! My H said almost all of these same things to me. They must be using the same playbook. Kuddos to you believing in yourself.
Original BD: 10/26/2017 PA: 10/2017 - 11/2017 Second BD: 09/15/2018 Currently: IHS M: 42 H: 45 S: 22 lives on his own D: 18 away at college S: 15 still lives at home - the only child we share together
At this point in time, I want to let go, and focus on me, my shortcomings (things i want to improve about myself), and let her know, that whatever she chooses to do is on her, as I am focusing on me. I tried to validate some of the things, I had no answer to previously.
I would prefer to R at some point, but as of right now, that is not on the table - therefore I wrote to her, with a validation of some of the things she has previously told me. I also sent her text from Flysolo, regarding the house.
If D is the where this ends, then so be it, I will hopefully be a strong and independent father and person when that time comes, because my focus is me and my kids, and not her and her opinions and me thinking about them and why she does what she does. Hope it makes sense?
Last edited by Hurt213; 11/09/1811:37 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
It seems you are in a hurry to go somewhere you don´t even know if you want to get there...
Take your time Hurt. Relax. I know it´s not easy. Then let restart from the beggining. Read Cadet´s first post. It has lot of info. Choose there what to read: Detaching, GAL, Validating. ...
You need TIME and PATIENCE.
Take your time.
No more R talks, detach please and get out of her way. You control yourself, nothing more, nothing less.
Keep posting, you´ll get the help here. Help yourself. You can do it man, be strong, be consistent with your actions.
Sending you a big hug ((((Hurt))))
You need to take your time, please understand it´s a marathon...
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Yes I did send it. (I might have made a mistake), however, I felt really good, because it lets her know that It is okay for her to do her thing, and I am doing mine (I am beginning to believe this myself) which is a big step.
Oh man. First of all, don't do big things like that without asking here first, we all would have told you to write it and then delete it, burn it or eat it. DON'T send stuff like that. She's not just a WAS, she's a WW. She's actively having an affair. Don't validate all the crap she's been spouting to justify her A.
Regarding selling the house, if you don't want to sell it then why are you doing all the work? If you do want to sell it then why do you care what her response is?
DB is a tool to improve yourself. If doesn´t matter if you want to stay into MR or not. It helps YOU.
Where in MWD writing does it say DB is a tool to Improve yourself rather than to save a M? To be certain many here have tried to turn it into that. Many have improved themselves, myself included. But I have to say I cringe when I see comments like this. The purpose of the book and methods is to bust a D. Sadly that doesn't often happen so the consolation prize is a better you. But I just don't think we should change MWD goals for her - nor let off the hook for techniques that dont always work. Just my thoughts on that. We dint get to put words in her mouth.
Hurt I am pretty sure it has been suggested to you before that you not rush to respond without getting input here first, yet you seem to want to do that. Why the rush? Did you really need to send all of that? His does it get you closer to your goal? What is your ultimate goal? We all know this is all so hard but you've got to slow down a bit. You've done well with many things but then set yourself back with others. SLOW DOWN. Post here first. THEN respond.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
If D is the where this ends, then so be it, I will hopefully be a strong and independent father and person when that time comes, because my focus is me and my kids, and not her and her opinions and me thinking about them and why she does what she does.
This is ^^^^^ this good. Read this. Write it down and put it in your wallet.
Oh, and no more long emails. Concise, to the point, business like but with a pinch of kindness.
DB is a tool to improve yourself. If doesn´t matter if you want to stay into MR or not. It helps YOU.
Where in MWD writing does it say DB is a tool to Improve yourself rather than to save a M? To be certain many here have tried to turn it into that. Many have improved themselves, myself included. But I have to say I cringe when I see comments like this. The purpose of the book and methods is to bust a D. Sadly that doesn't often happen so the consolation prize is a better you. But I just don't think we should change MWD goals for her - nor let off the hook for techniques that dont always work. Just my thoughts on that. We dint get to put words in her mouth.
You are right Don, just was trying to cheer up Hurt and take him away from certain mind games. My mistake, sorry.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
but she understands how I need to get some space from her (what does this mean?)
She's saying if you had any self respect (no offense) you would not want to be in close contact of her. You wouldn't want anything to do with her. It means that she KNOWS she doesn't deserve you! It means she KNOWS she is doing you wrong.
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She also said, that OM had texted her yesterday and once again "spread a doubt about wether he wanted to be with her or not", WW had said that he was clearly using her for his own needs, and would throw her away again as soon as he got bored, as he had already done twice - WW said that it was because he was confused.
Did she say this to the female friend, or you? B/c if she's saying this stuff to you, that's very unacceptable. It's bad enough she's running around on you......but she should not be discussing her affair with OM as though it was casual conversation over the family dinner table. Make sense?
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This morning, she hardly said anything, she even passed right by me, without saying good morning. She is acting really cold and distant, and I seem to be a nuisance to her at the moment.
Well......yeah! Look, a woman can only truly desire one man at a time. I'm not talking about getting horny or even having sex. She could have sex with a half dozen men in one day, but it doesn't mean she was in love with any of them. She can have sex with her H, and not be love with him. I'm saying if the OM is in your W's head/heart, she's not going to desire to be you the way a wife should desire her husband. I want you to remember what I've told you, cause she is going to play lots of games with you......I can almost see the handwriting on the wall. The sooner you get fed up and stop putting up with her cr@p, the better. The sooner you drop her, the better off you'll be.
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I am finding it hard to figure out how to 180 correct since: being reserved, not telling her how I feel, not flirting enough and not showing her affection has been things she pointed out was missing, and was things she needed.
Before making that statement above, you wrote about how your W was making plans to be with the OM again...….so you see the answer is to flirt and be affectionate? Even if this was a complaint previously, it certainly is not what you do when a woman is cheating on you. You aren't in a competition for your W! Why are you feeling the need to be good enough for her to choose you over the OM? There's something wrong with that picture.
180's don't mean you start doing everything to fix her complaint list against you. There may be a few things, but most things that would be considered something you'd keep strictly in a MR (like affection and flirting), you avoid until she ends the affair. 180's can be about most anything, but usually we think in terms of improvement as a man. You can improve as a man without flirting and giving her affection. As long as she's in an affair, you can't act as if you would if she wanted to be faithful to her H...….b/c she doesn't. See what I mean?
Look, you need to stop engaging as if you are trying to win her. Stop hanging out with her, or with her friends. Start leaving the house and getting a life apart from her. You can be friends who have no connection with her. Do you have male buddies? Hang out with them. Find things to do away from her. Don't discuss what you're doing, where you're going, with whom, or when you'll be home. You don't need what she's doing, nor the treatment she's giving you.
Are you having sex with her? This is dangerous when she's in an affair. Not to mention STD's, I remember a couple of cases where H's were duped into believing they fathered a child, only to discover otherwise, later. So, please be careful.
As for the letter.....well, you've already sent it. Guys feel better afterwards, b/c it acts as lever to release some pent up emotions. Anyway, I really hope you can muster the strength to walk away. I think that's the only hope of having a better future with or without her. Sometimes the WW has to see she has really lost her H out of her life, before it brings her to her senses. Even then, the H has to be very sharp and not fall into her web of deceit.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you very much for that very thoughtful insight.
Tonight I came home from a birthday party with the kids (first time WW was not attending a family party) - It was weird at first, but we ended up having a really great time, and actually I didn't think much of her.
When we came home, the house was cleaned, and WW was really interested in hearing about our day. I told her "We had a great time, thank you", and then I attended to my kids needs.
Later, when the kids were tugged in, she asked to talk to me, and I sat down and listened. Here are the major points of the conversation:
She told me, that she was currently in contact with OM (I almost upped and left the room, and told her, that I was not interested in any details, and if that was what this conversation was about, then we should just end it right here). She then rushed that, she was no longer head over heels in love, and that they were not going to be a thing for long (I then shut her down and said if she had anything of importance, that she needed to tell me).
She proceeded to tell me, that it had been difficult on her, not to be part of the birthday party today, however it had been nice to have a whole day for herself, something she had been longing for when we where together. I just said that I could understand how it must had been nice to have a day where you could do what you wanted to.
She also said, that she was firm on her decision to sell the house and move apart, as she had no interest in reconnecting and / or working on the problems we had with out old relationship. I said I understood, and that I too couldn't go back to the way things were, that I had found joy in the activities I had taken up since we parted, and that she had changed as well.
She said she didn't have the kids interest in this, and that her psychiatrist had told her, that if she didn't leave, she would be in a depression within the next 6 months. She has a powerful wish to move and be on her own (we have been together since young age), and she felt like it was very important to stand on her own legs, and make her own choices. I told her, that I believed differently when kids were involved, however I could see what she meant.
She said she didn't think she could be with me again because she had given her heart to someone else ( OM ) - I said I could understand how that could be hard to deal with.
Her psychiatrist had told her, that she was basically being pulled from between two strings 1. the urge to be on her own and 2. family life. If she didn't let go of the family life, the aforementioned depression would kick in.
The psychiatrist told her, that she would meet not 1,2 or 3 but maybe even more new men before she found the right one, but she had to let go and leave. <--- I failed in validating at this point unfortunately.
I told her that I found that advice to be real bad. We know what the problems in our relationship were, we should work to solve those. We have two little kids, and by leaving (even if just for two years), that would have great impact on them.
I told her, that I would really like to sit down with her and her psychiatrist, and maybe she could shed some light on why, she directly advised my WW to leave (I don't really think she did, and WW became a bit anxious at my suggestion) she told she would schedule a private consultation first, because things had changed with OM, and the situation was different now, and then after maybe we could do a couples session so she could get the psychiatrist to back up her statements.
All in all she seems to be firm on leaving us just to see how it is to live alone, even with the consequences it will have on the kids.
After that the conversation fizzled, and I said good night.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Well don’t buy that BS! You know, believe nothing...really a very rare psych. advice...c’mon...
Reinforce DB man, it’s going to rain waywardness there, get the umbrella and go GAL. Hey, you don’t validate everything she says. Just her feelings and to a certain extent. She’s making her psych responsible for her demands...
Set boundaries to protect yourself and the kids, detach and GAL. DB at the max!
Be strong H!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
So a couple of days has past since I last made a entry to my "diary". Things have been going in the same limbo state, not much has changed.
I have been focusing on enjoying my time with the kids and have been better at detaching from not only WW but also not workin when im not a work, which has been a problem for me. Everyone seems to be enjoying that, I know I do.
I had a good long session with my therapist (which relates to aforementioned depression), and the situation at hand is a part of those talks since it has such a huge impact on my mental state. I am in a good spot right now, and I have gotten some advices on to handle my self when I want to reach out to WW and how exactly to go about doing that in a way that does not make me smash my identity and self-esteem.
Basically, I was advised to tell her, that I was in no way agreeing with her choices at this time in place, however I was not going to try and change her beliefs, the choices she makes are her to make, and thats it. "If you love something, then set it free to choose for itself", basically. The thing was, that I appear to be pushing whenever I engage the conversation, so I should wait for her to reach out.
So yesterday, she asked if we could talk about something related to the kids and their spare time activities this week, and I agreed. Turns out it was a logistical problem and we quickly sorted it. I then told her the above mentioned, and she was surprised (at least acted surprised). She asked if she had been brought up in any other contexts in my conversations, and I said that she was a part of the process, but not the endgame, a piece of the puzzle one might say.
She was very curious, and I answered some of her questions, but I steered clear of things related to me and her. (My therapist, basically has been stating from day 1, that she is in no way able to give a clinical assessment of my WW, as that would require her to have her in her clinic and watching/talking to her in "real time" (don't know the word). However, there are patterns to why people do what they do, and she and I have been talking about those.
WW was very interested, and actually said that she would like to talk to my therapist, because she could see some valid things, that she hadn't really thought about.
Then she proceeded to tell me, that OM was only interested in a relationship with no strings attached, and she didn't know if she want to be with him - I told her, that I already told her, that I didn't want to talk about them, and I would have no part in their drama. I told her to respect my wishes, if we were have conversations regarding anything but the kids. She said she was sorry. Then she said, that she was really afraid of the fact that if she went back to me, then she would fall back in the old relationship with all its hardships. (She has actually gained a lot of independence, matured and is another woman right now) since we ended things. And she was terrified to loose those values, because she really loved that about herself. I told her, that I had noticed how she had "evolved", and that it was nice for her, and I could understand her fear of loosing herself.
She said in relation to the above fear, that even if she didn't end up with OM, then she would probably not want me, because of how she perceived herself since it ended. I validated her, and then said, you can't go back to something, since that is in the past. You can start something new, and by already realizing what was wrong, you get a head start on your present and future. All of that is for you to figure out.
She thanked me, then I headed out to the gym. When I came back later, she asked if I wanted toast bun (well I don't know if thats cake-eating?), but I accepted and she made me a meal (not putting anything feelings into that), and sat down on the couch for 1 hour (she usually goes to her room after 21.00 - most likely to text with OM), but she didn't go until 22.00.
Not putting anything in it, just journaling.
Today I am going shopping for some new clothes, getting a haircut - then gym tonight, and a coffee with a friend later.
Saturday we will be attending a children's birthday (my oldest friend and the wife is a close friend of WW) so we will be going together - No expectations or anything, its purely to do a good thing for the kids - do I need to take special precautions to anything?
Thanks.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Hurt...that was hard to read. It reeks of waywardness. Personally I would ONLY speak with her about the kids. If she says OM, "I'm not sure I'd want you back", etc...I would be GONE, ain't having/listening to that crap! Take back your self-respect, she's free and clear to have her own thoughts, but don't sit around and validate that nonsense.
Keep doing you and for your kids. When someone like Neffer is telling you that you're hearing BS and to "get an umbrella", heed his words!
And don't let her cook for you. Best advice I ever got on here was to go in a straight line in the opposite direction from my W. Right now you are allowing yourself to get tangled up in your W's wayward web.
I just ordered "Divorce Busting" and "The Divorce Remedy" through a friend of mine, so that WW does not catch on.
What exactly is the difference between the two? and should I just had ordered the one (Divorce Remedy) seems to be a newer version? Just wondering if I am buying two nearly identical books?
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Hurt, it's unbelievable the way she flaunts her R with OM in front of you, definite waywardness and rebellion being expressed there as Ballast said. I think just in general you are talking too much to her. I would suggest keeping convos very businesslike and brief. She's trying to keep you on as Plan B and so far you are taking the bait. Time to put an end to that.
Originally Posted by Hurt213
I just ordered "Divorce Busting" and "The Divorce Remedy" through a friend of mine, so that WW does not catch on.
What exactly is the difference between the two? and should I just had ordered the one (Divorce Remedy) seems to be a newer version? Just wondering if I am buying two nearly identical books?
DB came first, DR is basically a slight re-writing of DB. Michele wrote that she felt that some people were misunderstanding some of what she wrote in DB, particularly in regards to how long it takes to turn things around (some people were getting the impression it can be done quickly). So she wrote DR as a revised version of DB to clarify some of those things.
I will try to keep my conversations with WW at a minimum. She informed me today, that she will be heading out (that is how she express that she goes to OM) this friday - we have split the weeks into 7/7, so this is her week to do what she wants, and I am basically having the kids, even though we live together. So she is free to do so, however it is so freaking disrespectful, and I don't know how to do anything other than ignore it, as I basically can't do anything.
I am also really frustrated by something that might seem harmless.. She was, for a long time, against birth control pills, after we had our daughter, as there were many side effects, and she basically told me that I should get an vasectomy (I believe it is called), because we were sure we werent having more kids. I was thinking long and hard, but decided not to (luckily), and we then used traditional birth control (read the old good rubber dubbers), as there was no way she would return to pills. Today, I went to get a folder in our office space, and in her open work case, there was a box of birth control pills. Apparently she began taking them again yesterday (im guessing so she can satisfy the OM). I know, this is none of my business, and I should detach like hell, but holy fk.. that set me back, because she seems to be a completely different person / beast as of now.
She even tried to engage in small talk with me from the minute I walked in after work, and for the next hour, she was talking about her day, what people did and say, and how and what she had been doing - I just said "mmhm".
I am really trying to follow the advice for LBS with a WW from sandi2, where you are to completely show WW that you are done with their ugly behaviour, and that you don't care what they do, but you do you. But im struggling as you can see.
I wanted to confront her so badly with the information that she had reengaged in the OM affair for the third time now. (if you can call it an affair after her and I ended our business), and I wanted to confront her about being on birth control after our many conversations regarding them. I did neither because I was instructed to always come here for advice before I do such thing.
She told me that she had been together with her girlfriends in the weekend, and had told them, how she had ended things with me, and was now going to be a single mother. Her girlfriends had been appalled by her doing, and urged her to think about things according to WW. To me it seemed like, she didn't really pay attention to what they said, instead she seemed to be enjoying that they had their full attention on her, and that she was somehow special. It is sickening.
Tonight she is out with other friends, and she said she was going to tell them as well, that she had ended our family life. It is like she is getting a kick out of this, more than facing the reality of what she is actually doing.
Sorry for the rant, but needed to vent...
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Sorry Hurt. I was thinking how tough it is to have my H moved out but I think your situation is worse. I wish there was a quick remedy to all of this pain but there isn't. Try to set your boundaries. Be pleasant but not too friendly. Start working on self-improvement... read, journal, post, go for walks/runs...whatever you need to do. And then get the heck out of dodge when it is her week home. If you hang around when she is there, she will definitely be cake eating because she will get her week off AND have her H at home to help her with everything. It [censored] for the kids but this won't go on forever. You need to do what you need to do to keep yourself reasonably sane. Hang in there. Her world is not going to be this rosy for long. You are doing things the right way and she is not. That will catch up with her sooner or later. You will be better off in the long run whether it is with her or with someone else. (((HUGS)))
I would be very careful what you share with your WW. I would not tell her anything your therapist says, unless you are instructed to say it.
Look Hurt, this living arrangement is very unhealthy for you, especially considering your history with depression. When she lives under your roof and is going off to sleep with OM for a week at a time, it's like shoving your teeth down your throat. How will she gain any respect for you, as long as she sees you sitting back and enduring this onslaught of disrespect from her? It's not going to happen. Not from a wayward W.
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I wanted to confront her so badly with the information that she had reengaged in the OM affair for the third time now. (if you can call it an affair after her and I ended our business), and I wanted to confront her about being on birth control after our many conversations regarding them. I did neither because I was instructed to always come here for advice before I do such thing.
It's not enough to just confront her! She would lie her way out of it, and make you doubt your own sanity. WW's do it all the time. It's called gaslighting. You have to do more than just confront her. You need to dump her and tell her you are through with her, instead of trying to say things to convince her to stay in the MR. You need a plan. IMHO, you should tell her to pack her things and get out. Tell her to go stay with her girlfriends, OM, or whoever....... cause you don't want her. That's how you have to say it. You don't want her. This is the only type of action that will win her respect. If you'll stick to your guns and not go weak and try to talk her into trying to work on the M, this will work better than anything else you could do. It will probably take a physical separation and some time for her to see that you aren't going to chase her, but nothing you could do would be more attractive than for you to walk away from her.......(except kick her out).
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She told me that she had been together with her girlfriends in the weekend, and had told them, how she had ended things with me, and was now going to be a single mother. Her girlfriends had been appalled by her doing, and urged her to think about things according to WW. To me it seemed like, she didn't really pay attention to what they said, instead she seemed to be enjoying that they had their full attention on her, and that she was somehow special. It is sickening.
That's b/c what they tell her makes no difference. It's what YOU tell her that counts.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I informed her, that the way she had been treating me for the past 3 months, and the way she continued to, was beyond any level of respect, you could give to another human being. I was seen as less than dog [censored], and this was the end of it. I could never had done to her, what she did to me, and i've had it with her.
I told her that 4 months ago she wanted me to do a vasectomy, because we werent having any more kids, and now she were on pills, even though that was such an issue - That her behaviour, lying and manipulation was repulsive and disgusting and that I wanted her to find another living space, because I didn't want anything to do with her.
She was trying to excuse herself, but I bit her off with "I don't want to hear it, goodbye".
She didn't say anything more to me, but attended to the kids needs, and then left.
Now comes the part where I don't try to talk or engage in ANY activity with her, it will be hard but it is the only way to keep my self sane at this point in time.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
I have a question regarding interactions with my ex, after having followed your advice (told her that I am done with her, that she treated me like garbage, and that I want nothing to do with her - and told her to find another place to stay).
She was very clear the other day, that even though OM didn't necessarily work out, she wouldn't want to be with me because of the things that didn't work out in our relationship (mainly me becoming ill, not giving her the opportunities to travel and see things. She also thinks, that because she is 31 and has the kids, the house, and the job - that she is missing out on life, and that it will be great for her to get her own place, decide things for herself and live by herself) <-- Is this a WW or simply a WAW that tells me that she is done and that I should really just let go (I am going to now anyways, but im curious to the things she told me) She said that her psychiatrist had told her to leave me, because she would end up with a depression within the next 6 months if she didn't. And that all the things she felt about living by herself were great, and because of that, she should indeed be leaving the relationship.
There will be times where I will have to interact with her (us both being in the house for example). I will try to to GAL as much as I possible can to avoid being near her, and I really will make the best effort I humanly can to walk away for my own sake, and let her choose to reach out if she chooses to, and if not, then I am on route to bigger and better things im sure.
But she has refused to leave the house previously, and she might again, and then I will have to see her from time to time, as I am home (can't GAL everyday), I also need to just spend time with my kids in our "safe and relaxed" environment aka home.
So when those situations occur, how do I engage her if she reaches out and wants to smalltalk about everyday business? how to act around her in general?
Do I show her, that I am cold, not wanting anything to do with her anymore?
Do I act content, happy and cheerful but without the need to look at her or talk to her?
Do I act content, happy and cheerful, and listen to her, and smile at her?
This is really hard for me to figure out.
I understand that the only way forward for us, is to go our separate ways for now, and I will be pushing for ending this inhouse seperation, because it is really unhealthy and it is fundamental for her cake-eating.
I really need some guidance in how to act as of now because I will have to fake it to make it for a while, I now it gets easier with time, but for now, I will most likely screw up without the correct guidance.
Thank you so much.
Last edited by Hurt213; 11/14/1810:05 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Now comes the time to replace words with action. Keep detaching, fake it till you get it. You both talk only about the kids, GAL when she is charge of them. There you treat her as a friendly neighbour.
You need to be strong H. And cool, calm and collected.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
I was at her moms today with sick D. And I spilled the beans (might have been a huge [censored] up - but I couldn't control my self anymore) I told her, that WW had been being this other guy since July, and That I had known all the time, we had been visiting MIL. She was appalled, by her daughers actions. I told her not to do anything with it on my behalf. I just wanted her to know why I was not attending any more family things, and that I had given it my best to try and save our family. She knew that was true.
I just removed her from my Netflix account, my Spotify account - wrote a text, telling her that before I leave today, she will have called the bank and our phone provider and have all her personal bills removed from our joint account, furthermore her phone is part of my subscription, this will also have changed before I leave the house.
From now on, I will be going detach, gal and 180 mode. There is nothing more for me to do, so I will focus on me from now on, and my kids.
After this happens tonight I will follow your advice neffer.
I will treat her has a neighbor, and try to be calm, cool, relaxed and collected. <-- Do I act as though life is good, and I am happy around her? or that I am angry with her, and that she gets the feeling of backing off when she is around me?
Last edited by Hurt213; 11/14/1810:48 AM.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Firstly, you have stood up for yourself. No matter WHAT happens with your W, you have to know you could not have continued to live with such disrespect. You have a tough sitch and took action for you.
Telling her MIL...so that's counter to the rules so to speak, BUT I can understand your impulse to do so. A man/woman can only take so much disrespect. Thing is while I know that had to feel good, it fashions you a victim and is a set back if you have hopes to save your MR. What is done is done, you can't change it, BUT I would second Neffer's admonition to you to be calm, cool and relaxed and keep the family out of it.
How do you act? It would be too fake to pretend life is roses right now, it would also be counter-productive to be hostile. You act as though you are living for YOU and your kids ONLY! You will have to fake it to make it when/if she goes out, but otherwise you are accepting of the reality of your sitch, staying polite, respectful so long as she is polite, respectful to you and you focus on what you need to do for your life. You be a realist, self confident, forward thinking gentlemen what she does is outside of your control/thoughts. Unless and until W's actions show change to you, you are living for you and your kids only.
That's my .02 which I hope helps you some. Praying for you buddy. Other vets I'm sure will chime in with great advice.
What B says H. Add GAL GAL GAL. GAL for yourself. Get out of the house when she is in charge of the kids, meet people, keep your mind busy. And be mysterious doing that, it´s your life now. She needs to see that. You are moving forward. Her loss.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Okay, good job! You already look more attractive. It doesn't mean she's going to fall into your arms right away, it just means you look more like a man b/c you are taking back your b@lls.
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She was very clear the other day, that even though OM didn't necessarily work out, she wouldn't want to be with me because of the things that didn't work out in our relationship (mainly me becoming ill, not giving her the opportunities to travel and see things. She also thinks, that because she is 31 and has the kids, the house, and the job - that she is missing out on life, and that it will be great for her to get her own place, decide things for herself and live by herself) <-- Is this a WW or simply a WAW that tells me that she is done and that I should really just let go
She is not simply a WAW. I don't know what she thought married life and raising a family was going to be like, but she is in a fantasy. I don't know many 31 year old wives/mothers who get to just travel around like they are single. Apparently, she feels that she missed out on her time of being single and living on her own. I remember going through a period where I kind of regretted getting married so young and not experiencing a couple of years on my own, but I fell in love young and wanted to get married......so we did. Shortly thereafter, the kids came along. That's called married life and having a home & family. If a woman is going to be a wife and mother......then she should conduct herself in the appropriate behavior for that role. Your W is not just rejecting you.........she's rejecting and rebelling against her marriage and family's lifestyle. I don't know if she'll keep her kids or want to leave them with you most of the time so that she can run around and do whatever suits her fancy.
As I've said previously, nothing may bring her back into the MR, but if there is ever a chance......it would be b/c you finally stood up to her and she finds respect for you. She may not tell you, and she may not do any action that indicates she respects your decision......in fact, she may act as if she's angry (some WW's do), but in her heart, she KNOWS you are 100% right, and she can't help but respect you for taking a stand. Women are designed in such a way that they respect the man who stands up for himself, and who are confident. Those are admirable male traits.
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She said that her psychiatrist had told her to leave me, because she would end up with a depression within the next 6 months if she didn't. And that all the things she felt about living by herself were great, and because of that, she should indeed be leaving the relationship.
Well, good, now she has her "psychiatrist" telling her she needs to leave. Personally, I think she is telling you these things to dig you, b/c she knows it hurts.
Are you certain this is a certified, board licensed, psychiatrist? Or is this some "counselor" she calling a psychiatrist? B/c the things she's claiming is coming as advice from the psychiatrist, seem questionable. It sounds more like something your WW uses to needle you. Of course, she may have some feminist counselor who is telling her to ditch her family/marriage and go out there and find whatever makes her happy.....regardless of the cost. Unfortunately, there are such dreadful people in offices who have a 8X10 document on the wall, stating they are some sort of counselor. That doesn't mean they are pro-marriage, or that they've had anymore additional training than a school guidance counselor.
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There will be times where I will have to interact with her (us both being in the house for example).
I thought you made it clear that she was to get out. When you make these ^^^^^^ type of statements, it sounds as if you mentally see yourself continuing to stay in the house with her. However, if she's there, I suggest you keep interaction down to just what is necessary. You've told her to leave, so no chit-chat over the newspaper is necessary.
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I will try to to GAL as much as I possible can to avoid being near her, and I really will make the best effort I humanly can to walk away for my own sake, and let her choose to reach out if she chooses to, and if not, then I am on route to bigger and better things im sure.
Hurt, this can't be a "try". You have to do it. You do it by sheer "will". Your feelings may not be in it, at first, so you "will" yourself to get out of that house. If you do nothing but walk around Walmart, or sit at the Tasty Freeze, or reading at the library......get out of that house!
Now listen, I want you to erase something from your dialog......for a while at least. I've noticed you using the phrase of "reaching out". Forget it. It's a trap when you have a WW. You don't need to reach out to her, and if it appears she's reaching out to you.......run, b/c it's a temp check. Okay? Forget this stuff about "reaching out". It's not going to happen from her heart for a long time. If you keep playing your cards right, it may shorten that time by cutting out some of her game playing......but we'll have to see. Nice guy H's are always seeking some small sign of his WW reaching out to him. She is wayward! (Look up the definition.) It's not going to happen while she's wayward and getting the best of both worlds.
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But she has refused to leave the house previously, and she might again, and then I will have to see her from time to time, as I am home (can't GAL everyday), I also need to just spend time with my kids in our "safe and relaxed" environment aka home.
Key word here is "if", b/c we know yet. If she doesn't leave after you've said all of that to her.......then I would forget the "friendly neighbor" stuff. You just keep the atmosphere civil and tolerable. B/c you've told her to get out! Therefore, why should you make things all fun & comfy for her? See what I mean? I'm not saying to be a jerk, say derogatory things to her, or see how hateful you can show out.............I'm just saying to stop playing Mr. Nice Guy with her.
Of course you will need to spend time with your kids. If she's there, then once they are in bed, you can tell her you are going out and then leave the house. Didn't you say she was already taking a full week as "her free time to do whatever she wanted"? Well, if she's not staying there for a week at a time, you use that time taking care of the children. If she's there.......then leave after the kids are in bed. If she doesn't like it, she can get a baby sitter. You can take your kids and go do something with them, if she is hanging around the house. But, she doesn't get to go along with you. If you've told the woman to get out, and she won't..........then don't let her tag along and play like one big happy family who are going out together. If she asks (and many WW's do, b/c they are manipulative and feel entitled), you simply tell her "no". Am I making sense? When you told her to get out.....you meant for things to make a significant turn, and if she stubbornly stays there out of entitlement, or whatever......it doesn't mean you have to partake in things with her, or vice-versa. And, with holidays coming.....she'll try to take advantage, if she doesn't leave.
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So when those situations occur, how do I engage her if she reaches out and wants to smalltalk about everyday business? how to act around her in general?
You don't "engage" her. You are putting a stop to all of that. Beginning now, you stop engaging her. You aren't trying to act like the guy who is trying to make his M work. You've dumped her. Kicked her out. Get the picture? That's not suppose to be the same picture she sees of a guy trying to make his M work. That's okay, b/c that's what you want her to believe. WW's have to believe they have lost (really lost) their H, before reality begins to hit them. So, don't engage in small talk. If there is something to discuss about the kids, then keep the discussion short and walk away. Don't try to keep the conversation going. If she "reaches out" in small talk (this a temp check from her), you show no interest whatsoever. Why? B/c you are not going to simply settle back and fall into the same old pattern again. You've told her you don't want her around.
Did you ever have a girl hang around you at school (or where ever) and you weren't attracted to her? Yeah, well, that's how you need to act toward your WW. She can't hold your interest. You don't find her attractive. You've confronted her and talked the talk.......now walk the walk. Way down the road, when she has changed, apologized, asked for forgiveness, (and a bunch of other things I'll talk about much later)......then you can be the H who lovingly engages with her. At the moment, those type actions are not going to work.
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Do I show her, that I am cold, not wanting anything to do with her anymore?
Isn't that what you told her, when you confronted her?
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Do I act content, happy and cheerful, and listen to her, and smile at her?
Not so much happiness and cheerful b/c she's there, but more about your life in general. Like you are happy with the man you are becoming. You are happy with your kids. You enjoy the time of year, whatever. It's not about her. You are not particularly happy with her, b/c you've told her to get out.......and she's refused (if she's still there). So, don't make your cheerfulness about her. Make sense?
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This is really hard for me to figure out.
It's b/c you have read a lot of information in a short period of time. When it comes to individual's personal situations, some of the advice has to be fine tuned. Some people fail to realize that as your situation changes, it may require your actions to change as well. I'm not suggesting you act like a beast if your WW is there. I can't remember the ages of your kids, but you have to take that in consideration. If they are young and emotionally sensitive, then you don't want to do something that will traumatize them.......(like having a screaming match with your WW in front of them.) Just be civil with your spouse when they are around, for their sake. That doesn't mean you use it for an excuse to get kissy-kissy and cozy up next to her on the couch. Even if she tries it, you need to be strong enough to tell her it isn't going play that way. All that would be is temp checking or manipulation. It would not mean she had changed her feelings. It may be how nice guy H's fantasize of his WW making up with him, but in the real world it's not going to happen for the right reasons.
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I really need some guidance in how to act as of now because I will have to fake it to make it for a while, I now it gets easier with time, but for now, I will most likely screw up without the correct guidance.
I'm trying to address the things you bring to the board. If you don't understand what I am saying, please tell me. I'm sure my style of writing has flaws, and I know some people misunderstand what I mean in some of the things stated.
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I was at her moms today with sick D. And I spilled the beans (might have been a huge [censored] up - but I couldn't control my self anymore) I told her, that WW had been being this other guy since July, and That I had known all the time, we had been visiting MIL. She was appalled, by her daughers actions. I told her not to do anything with it on my behalf.
That's okay. It's going to make WW angry, but that's okay, too.
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I just wanted her to know why I was not attending any more family things, and that I had given it my best to try and save our family. She knew that was true.
Good job. Now, you won't have to endure the painful experience of going to her family's traditional holiday stuff and playing happy family, and you can create new ones, or go to your family. Your WW wanted to keep her affair and the separation a secret from her family. She has to learn there are consequences to her actions.
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I just removed her from my Netflix account, my Spotify account - wrote a text, telling her that before I leave today, she will have called the bank and our phone provider and have all her personal bills removed from our joint account, furthermore her phone is part of my subscription, this will also have changed before I leave the house.
Okay, I'll guess she'll know you are serious. She's probably going to be angry about it, so brace yourself. Just be careful, and don't trust her to do the "right thing". Many WW's have wiped out their H's bank accounts, and maxed out his credit cards. So, make sure you've protected yourself.
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From now on, I will be going detach, gal and 180 mode. There is nothing more for me to do, so I will focus on me from now on, and my kids.
And that's how you get to cheerful and happy.
Wow! I am proud of you for undertaking this tough job. I'm sure it wasn't easy.
Tonight, be prepared for most anything from her. Silence, tears, coldness, pouting, tantrums, whatever. All those type of behaviors are manipulative. So, if she's crying, don't go try to comfort her, b/c the tears are selfish tears. They aren't b/c she's remorseful of how she's treated you, or her affair, or leaving her kids. She may not even show up for a few days, that's okay. Just watch your bank account. I suspect she's going to be pretty angry.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So yesterday I stood up for my self, and then I went to work.
She wrote me 3 messages - One being about how she didn't find it alright, that I had informed her mother - I didn't answer. Second one being about how she dont even know if there IS another man in the picture, again, I didn't answer. Third text was about her doing groceries, and if I needed anything - I didn't answer.
Later she came home (and I have [censored] up I think), but I told her, that im not a cruel person like she has been to me (she is a teacher and has meetings wednesday, thursday and friday afternoon), so I would be picking up the kids, stay with them and having a good time, and when she gets home I will be leaving the house (I know I shouldn't be the one doing that, but I needed to clear my head, and show her, that I ment what i told her, when I said I was done with her.
So... I did.. When she came home yesterday, I packed my gym bag, packed my necessities, and kissed and hugged my kids. My 1 year old, came down from WWs lap, and ran across the living room, gave me a huge hug and waved while he said daddy. My daughter gave me a kiss and said bye bye.
I could see from the corner of my eye, that WW was smiling and found it to be real cute (I disliked her satisfaction). I didnt speak one word with her the entire time, and I didn't say goodbye - I just took my bags, and left.
I then went to the gym, and afterwards I headed out to my sisters place where I spent the night.
Today I will pick up the kids, have fun with them, and later when she arrives home after work, I will be going again - I know I should stay and she should go, however she isn't going to I think, and I need to get a good headstart on my new behaviour towards her, so it is needed for me to get out a couple of days).
Tomorrow after work, she will b going to OM, and I told her I think she should find another place to live - I doubt she is going to, however I will be at the house again come tomorrow, and then I will show her, that I am done with her, but also show her that I am contempt, happy and moving forward through my actions. I will try to GAL as much as possible, and not stay in the house with her after the kids are asleep.
I haven't heard from her since the 3 texts yesterday, and I won't lie, it is really hard - and my mind is constantly processing a lot of stuff about her, however I know this is the best way to detach.
I do believe this is the space she needs (and me too) - And I really can't stand the disrespect of her going to see OM anymore while we live under the same roof.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Disrespect is seeing OM while still M. You need to be strong H, no steps back. Time and patience. Keep DB.
As stated in the beginning of my threat, we aren't married, but have been living together for 13 years, and practically as if married - Just for your info, if you had missed it. So in fairness she is my ex, as she ended things, but we still live under the same roof, I don't know if your advice still applies.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
and then I will show her, that I am done with her, but also show her that I am contempt, happy and moving forward through my actions.
Hurt...show YOURSELF! By the actions that you take for YOU she will get the message. A strong, focused man takes action for himself without regard to what others may think. YOU not her.
No matter married or not, you have little ones who need both of their parent's love. Prayers to you and your sitch.
I had a great day at work. After work I visited my dads place and we talked for a couple of hours, mostly about sports and regular guy stuff, but also a bit about WW, I tried to keep it civil, him.. not so much. They resent WW for what she has done and is doing.
After the visit, I went to pick up my kids, and we went for a walk in the city and looked at the beautiful christmas lights. I bought a pair of shoes, that I have been wanting for a while.
WW texted and asked when we would be getting home, so she could prepare dinner for the kids. She then asked me when we came in the door, if I would be going tonight again - I just said "yes". I told her some information that I had gotten in the daycare that she needed, and else I talked with the kids. I bathed the kids, then I sat down for 30 minutes with my kids and just laughed and had a good time. The youngest was really tired so I went into his room to tug him in (WW sleeps in there and has all her possessions there). I noticed next to his bed, that there was a suitcase packed. I had a look, and yea [censored] me, I shouldn't have. It was filled with lingerie and stuff. She is going tomorrow to OM, and apparently its only to get laid, and then she planned on returning home.
I was really angry, even though im trying to play it cool.
I told her to come into the kitchen and said that I ment every word I had spilled yesterday about being so through with her. That it was so disgusting that she went out and did this is OM, who was not even into her (I SHOULD NOT HAVE TALKED ABOUT HIM, I know....) I said that our finances were being distributed and I needed her at the house saturday morning to do that (I also need to hit the gym). Other than that, I was not kidding when I informed her that she should find another place to stay, cause we didn't need her at the house. I also told her that I would not be coming to her mothers after the birthday party, and her mother knew why (She just smiled like "whatever"). Her answer to my statements were just "yes / no", and she didn't care at all.
She then said that she owned half the house, and therefore could come and go as she pleased - I didn't answer. I told her that the last nail in the coffin, was her getting on that birth control pill. Then I left and now I am at my sisters where I will be sleeping before going to the house tomorrow as she is "elsewhere until saturday".
In the car, I received a text from her saying: "listen up - not that I in any way owe you an explanation. I have NEVER asked you for an vasectomy, other than in good fun (<-- lie). Because nobody knew what the future would bring. We often talked about this. The fact that I started on these pills on advice from my doctors, while I am still medicated because of acne, so that it doesn't resurface after, is completely my own private business. You don't have to answer. You are going to interpret the things your own way anyways".
So yea, great day - really bad 2 hours at the house - I lost my cool unfortunately, however I did not bend on my arguments regarding that I am completely done with her and what else I told her yesterday.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
. I thought I accidentally deleted the first post (I read "past" the fact that the posts have to be approved by mods). 
I get it. It's hard for me to know how to sum it up in a few words. I believe you have to determine how you are going to conduct yourself, and act accordingly, rather than conducting yourself to win her approval. We try to tell you how to be the best version of yourself. You determine what that best version is. She doesn't get to determine it. Make sense? I think this helps you find the border in many of these situations.
