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Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2816844
10/11/18 03:15 AM
10/11/18 03:15 AM
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DnJ Offline
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Hello Gerda

I read your latest post today at work and have been thinking about it all day. Most of what I was planning on writing job has laid out, very well I might add. I agree with her assessment of his probably reasoning for wanting custody. And Gerda, your H is just being a big bully - stand up to that doofus, you donít deserve to be treated like that.

I do want to speak about fear. You asked a very good question - what am I so afraid of? Your answers are all valid and real. Now let them go. Fear comes from focusing on something that might happen, a possible future event. Focusing on the future can lead to a lot of anxiety as well. The fear comes from within you.

I can almost hear you asking how do I let go of the fear.

From what I have read, you have some targets or goals - I donít want to have to sell the house. I donít want a bad custody arrangement, and such.

The mind is interesting in that do and donít both get similar though processes. What I mean is, if I tell you donít think of elephants, you are now thing of elephants. Your mind has to think about, conjure up, and then ignore what it is that you are trying not to think about. So the more you think ďI do not want to have to sell my houseĒ the more you think of having to selling your house and the more fear you create and more anxious you become.

How about these targets or goals:

I want to be strong.

I want to be confident.

I want to stand up to H.

I want to be happy.

Read then again, out loud. No really - out loud. It doesnít matter where you are, out loud.

How do you feel? Do any resonate within? Do those feel different?

How about:

I am strong and confident.

I am healing and letting go.

I will stand up to H.

I am happy.

I am being the best I will be.

Try reading them out loud - your brain processes information differently when read aloud.

These are stronger statements (I like these). These are goals to live up too.

At any rate, all of those goals have no fear feedback. I like goals that focus on what you are trying to achieve rather than what you are trying to avoid. Keep focus on attain instead of abstain.

I hope that makes sense.

Focus on what you need to do. Keep protecting yourself and your children. Attain your goals. Set small steps and work towards them.

Faith. I do not know the mysterious working of God and His plan. I do believe He is working within each of us, providing strength and hope when all seems lost, guidance and wisdom in the form of help and advice from others, and calming reflection when surrounded by the tranquility of nature. It is a matter of choice, of free will, to use the tools and help He has provided - or not.

I have no doubt that God was working within those that provided so much hard earned wisdom and advice to me. I chose to leap, to have faith, to listen - I gave myself to Him. I found and trusted some very good people, a great many of which are right here on this forum.

When in the thick of it - I remember not being able to see a way out. Looking back it is so obvious, it is hard to recall just how hidden the path was.

(((Gerda)))

All the best

DnJ


At BD
Me49, W46, S20, S19, S16, D15
M-26, T-29
Oct 8 2017 - Bomb Drop, Moved in w/OM, & Left Kids
Dec 9 2017 - Legal Separation
Currently
Me50, W47, S21, S20, S17, D16

I may give up, but not today.
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2816999
10/11/18 07:07 PM
10/11/18 07:07 PM
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Gerda Offline OP
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You have both given my food for thought as well as a big heap of love.

I did try your exercise, DnJ, and I will keep trying it until it works.

I will write more later but just wanted to thank you both for the support and also for how well you know me as far as how you write to me, in a way that you know will fit with my beliefs and therefore not allow me to be dismissive of what you are saying.

I think that if H would just leave and go far far away, I would be okay with it all. What is scaring me is him taking the children and also them having to go through the divorce horrors that are about to begin. Losing my house I am afraid of but ready to accept.

I am not sure how to do the things you say with the thought of losing my kids in any way. Last night while I was at the concert my son had a huge panic attack, H would not put D9 to bed and then when he finally did, after 10 pm after letting her watch TV all night. He went to sleep in D's room and S13 was ten feet away spiraling into a panic attack and begging me to come home early from the concert. I was gone for only 3 hours total and for most of that time, I was still not only navigating the parenting but then anxious and worried about my son to the point that I could barely focus on my beloved Ray Lamontagne singing his heart out.. So the thought of H having the kids overnight or of them having to go with him on these lonely father visitation times with him so crazy and toxic, that is what is killing me. The thought of starting a new life with just me and my kids and no H, that is actually appealing and even wonderful to me.

I want him to come out of this one day and come back. I still believe in God's power to soften his heart.

But I don't believe I can do anything about it, and so I want him to go. I just don't want to go through the battle to come.

Last edited by Gerda; 10/11/18 07:09 PM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2817012
10/11/18 08:11 PM
10/11/18 08:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 25,434
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job Offline

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Gerda,

Your h's lawyer may have advised him not to leave the home. Why? Because it would look like he abandoned you, the children and his home.

I might be wrong in what I am posting, but you and your son sound co-dependent upon each other. You both have some issues w/fear, anxiety and panic. Given that your children are around both of you, they are picking up on all the tension, stress, panic, anxiety and yes, fear. It's not a good situation for any of you and I honestly do not know how to help you, except to say that you and your children (all of you) need to be in counseling to explore what is going on w/the emotions, etc.

If I am wrong, please correct me, but don't you and your h own another place? If so, what about selling it and splitting the proceeds? At least this might give you a bit of a breather from the $$$ he wants.

Think about this...if your tax returns don't look all that hot and you two owe money, then they may not help his case at all.

Just some random thoughts. I'll keep thinking and praying for you and your children.

Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2817208
10/13/18 01:09 AM
10/13/18 01:09 AM
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DnJ Offline
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Hello Gerda

I am going to add to what job has said. Your H probably has received advice not to leave as it would appear as abandonment. It is a tactic for his upcoming battle with you.

Earlier you mentioned how your sitch seems unique in that H is out of his mind but wants the kids, while most others abandon ship and leave the spouse with the kids. I agree that most would find the kids an unwanted responsibility, my W sure did.

So I propose that perhaps your sitch is not so unique and that H is just manipulating you. Either to hurt you, rattle you, get more child support and therefore more money, or something like that. From my own experience the kids were pawns to W and used as such, she offered them, all the responsibility, and all the property, and only took a small amount of money - all to get things settled fast.

That is a possible explanation.


I want to remind you about how I recovered / detached, you even mentioned it a few times. Be accurate.

Accurately looking at my sitch really made a world of difference on two specific fronts. The first is the most obvious - being accurate means you are dealing with what is actually happening, not denying or wishing for something else. You are facing the hard reality of the situation, looking at the facts.

The second big difference is within oneself. It is the fact that you are willing to look at things with accuracy and truth in the forefront. Once you overcome that hurdle, a new plane, a new way of seeing the world will open up to you. It is the way out of the fog.

The first, changes how you deal with things going on and happening around you. The second, changes how you deal with things going on and happening within you.


So letís look at things accurately. I appologize if this gets a bit strong, it is delivered with a big heap of love.

As job stated your kids are picking up all the stress, panic, anxiety, and fear within your household. They already have enough of their own, and kids may unfortunately internalize this and blame themselves.

I do not believe that things are too far gone with you and children. Hís behaviour is relatively new. You have been in a more equilibrium state or stalemate for many years. I would think that the kids panic attacks are a more recent occurrence and therefore more easily remedied.

Accuracy:

Originally Posted by Gerda
I think that if H would just leave and go far far away, I would be okay with it all.

A while ago that statement was all but impossible for you to say or even hope for. You have come a very long way, and are more detached than you realize.

Originally Posted by Gerda
Losing my house I am afraid of but ready to accept.

Look at that - acceptance. And with acceptance comes less fear. The way you simply state ...I am afraid of but..., and just added it to the end of the paragraph. This has a lot less fear than it used to, and it is because you are coming to terms with this possibility. However the big reason is what is not said above, you are coming to terms with the other possibilities and those are gaining validity within you - you may not lose your home, you are willing to fight and protect you and kids, etc...

Originally Posted by Gerda
What is scaring me is him taking the children and also them having to go through the divorce horrors that are about to begin.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am not sure how to do the things you say with the thought of losing my kids in any way.

Custody is a big source of fear, along with the unknowns of divorce and its outcome. Once it is resolved, settled, and whichever possibility becomes reality the fear created by an unknown future cannot exist.

I too worried about losing my children. Try not to worry, you will not lose your kids, they will love you, you are their Mom, regardless of where they reside and for how long.


Iíve done a lot of thinking about how did I become fearless? How did I let go of my fear?

My W hurt me more than anyone ever has, and I prolonged my agony and suffering. It really is true - let go or be dragged.

At some point down the path of withdrawal from the addiction, detach, let go, become indifferent, etc..., I started to see clearly and realized I survived and would be fine.

I figured out that W was not continuing to hurt me, was not causing my fear - I was. Yes, initially W caused so much pain and fear, but then I kept feeding it. I was hurting myself by being attached and not letting go. I was causing my own fear with my irrational projections of future events that are realistically unlikely to occur.

I learned that I would be fine with or without W. Currently it is without, and I am fine.

I will be fine with or without kids around. This was a good thing to learn, they are going to leave someday and I will be fine.

W caused me so much pain and fear, there is not really anything else that can cause more. Therefore there is nothing to be afraid of, besides it is in my head anyways.

As Iíve said before, once youíre on the other side of all this youíll look back and it will be so obvious. When you finally see it, there is no going back, you get it, you are fearless, you are free.


Here it is.

Gerda, you the most important person in all of this. You are more important than a house. You are important than H. You are more important than a marriage. You are more important than your children.

That last one is difficult, and true. You are more important than your children. You must be healthy for you and your kids. You have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. You save yourself, then your can save others.

You lose the fear when you realize your importance and take back control of your life. It is not quick, and it doesnít happen over night. However, it can happen, it is a matter of choice.

Your health and wellness is most important, you are most important, everything else is secondary. You have to be alright. If you can see that, those fears will just become concerns. That is a bit more than semantics. Fear is paralyzing and debilitating. Concerns are something you can deal with and manage.

Then without fear you can tackle those concerns. Interestingly you have a much better chance at achieving your desired outcome when you are clear headed and not clouded by fear.

Realize your importance, focus on you, detach, let go, loose the fear, find indifference, find forgiveness, etc...

Gerda, I have read every word and post you have wrote and I believe you are closer to getting ďitĒ than you realize.

You are more important than fear.

Drop the fear, pick up yourself.

Itís important.

DnJ


At BD
Me49, W46, S20, S19, S16, D15
M-26, T-29
Oct 8 2017 - Bomb Drop, Moved in w/OM, & Left Kids
Dec 9 2017 - Legal Separation
Currently
Me50, W47, S21, S20, S17, D16

I may give up, but not today.
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2817283
10/13/18 09:03 PM
10/13/18 09:03 PM
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Posts: 412
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Gerda Offline OP
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Gerda  Offline OP
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DnJ, I don't know why I would be shocked that you took so much time to write all this for me; your kindness is famous at this point. But I am still shocked. I am so lonely a lot of the time, and even a couple of lines on my thread are such a lift; but this post is above the above and beyond. I have to read it at least three more times before I comment. I like everything you say but I don't know if I have the ears to hear yet.

And I get the oxygen mask metaphor but I have always hated it, even when my marriage was intact and I wasn't Christian. It seems to ask the wrong question to me. Have you ever read the story of Chiara Petrillo? I think she gets closer to what the actual question is.

As for my kids, if H was H, I would be okay when my kids were with him. But if H were H, he wouldn't be doing this. The man in H's body is to my mind very dangerous, and the thought of my kids being with him for more than a few hours at a time scares me not for me but for them. I want to protect them from him. I grew up with a crazy parent. It is incredibly damaging, and I am sure that part of my current fear trajectory is just that old wound flaring up.

I will write more later but I wanted to thank you so much for reading every word I have written and for thinking about my situation with such compassion and understanding -- and for inspiring me with a possible fear-free future, even if I don't understand how yet to do what you did.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2817284
10/13/18 09:07 PM
10/13/18 09:07 PM
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Gerda Offline OP
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Gerda  Offline OP
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Job, I really appreciate all your thoughts and ideas and how much care you show for me. If I could, I would sit down at the table with you here with a big pot of tea and a big slice of this pie I am going to make right now --

http://www.asunflowerlife.com/2012/07/marion-cunninghams-crustless-coconut.html

My mom used to make this pie, and I always think of her when I do. She was my first MLC experience, from the ripe old age of 13-18 or maybe 21, I experienced what I know now was her MLC and the horrors of my parents' divorce. As I wrote just now to DnJ, I think half of my current fear/anxiety/pain is just the remnants of that. My H's MLC is a double whammy because it's also a huge trigger for my own past pain growing up with someone just like that. I'm not sure she came out of it, at least in terms of understanding what she had done; but she was a lot nicer later. But when she died, I was able to forgive everything, to see all that was good about her, and to regret not being able to when she was alive. (I hope she knows that now.)

Enjoy the virtual pie and sending you love and thanks, will read what you wrote a couple hundred times. Also read Jack the Bean's sticky three times last night, it was almost as helpful to dispel my pain fog (at least for a few hours) as doing the Divine Mercy!

Last edited by Gerda; 10/13/18 09:10 PM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2817350
10/14/18 02:03 PM
10/14/18 02:03 PM
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Gordie Offline
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Gerda

I am sorry to hear of all your pain

I am sending you a virtual hug

I know there are the abandoners like DNJ Oneart Butterfly

My w was not one of them

She thought she would be happy if she just got rid of me

She would keep home and kids and I would disappear

As you know I did not play along

She did not like that one bit

It ruined her fantasy

You are in the worst of the storm

Your H is still clinging to his version of reality

And your actions are clashing with it

Stay strong

Remember the persistent widow

It will eventually get better


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2817354
10/14/18 03:39 PM
10/14/18 03:39 PM
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Hello Gerda

As I said it may be a bit strong, and comes with a big healing helping of love and care.

Donít worry about not having the ears to hear it all yet. I know I didnít - well actually I thought I didnít but one does hear, it just takes time to process.

By the way that oxygen mask metaphor, Iíve always hated it, I still do. However, as much as I hate it, it is true. Even now, and should be knowing better, I like to fight it.

Come on, I am a strong and confident man again. I can save my kids and others first, I have reserves, I can make it. Well, no. That is not how things work. I found that out - the hard way - much very hard wisdom being passed on right now. smile

Perhaps I can find a better metaphor, although I think the problem is not in the words, it is within the listener (me).

You touched on something - possibilities. I believe in possibilities, it is where Hope lives and resides. I can see a fear-free future for you, for sure. Find that possible future, hope for that future. You donít know how to get there and that is fine - you make your own path, you follow that hope, and you will get there. I know it is possible!

Maybe you do not see it, but from my side of the screen you are making progress. I am looking forward to reading about your successes and overcoming of obstacles. I mean that Gerda.

DnJ


At BD
Me49, W46, S20, S19, S16, D15
M-26, T-29
Oct 8 2017 - Bomb Drop, Moved in w/OM, & Left Kids
Dec 9 2017 - Legal Separation
Currently
Me50, W47, S21, S20, S17, D16

I may give up, but not today.
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2818448
Yesterday at 05:22 AM
Yesterday at 05:22 AM
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Gerda Offline OP
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DnJ and Gordie, I keep reading your last posts, they are sustenance in two very unique voices and perspectives, but both so clear and true.

Gordie, yes, that persistent widow!!!! But you know lately I keep thinking that I have to trust God even if it seems like he is not listening to my requests, that if I follow him, he will meet me there, even if the path leads to the pit, like the girl with the string in The Princess and the Goblin. When I think like this, I have peace and total trust and no fear-- e.g., that I may have to walk straight into the furnace, but He will meet me there if I walk the path He set, and that I will find myself totally transformed in Him, even if I don't find my H there too.

DnJ, you definitely know my weaknesses, and I am glad you know my strengths as well, and that you take the time to remind me of them. You are helping me more than you know!

I have things to say and report but am drowning in work and trying to prepare my motion for my first court date. I reconnected with an old friend whose wife hit MLC at the same time as my H did (but she immediately left him and kids and had baby with OM) and he has been giving me all his documents and motions, etc. He had a good lawyer too, and his process took 3 long ugly years. He has been so so helpful, and his docs are almost a template for me.

Last edited by Gerda; Yesterday at 05:25 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: Brave Little Gerda Gazes Into the Endless Tundra [Re: Gerda] #2818484
Yesterday at 05:47 PM
Yesterday at 05:47 PM
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Posts: 602
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DnJ Offline
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Good Morning Gerda

It is nice to hear from you, I was a little concerned, I am a passionate individual especially with someone or something I care about.

Wow, your friendís W left and had a baby with OM, and three long years. This MLC extracts such a toll from all involved. I am glad they are willing to share their knowledge and template documentation with you. You are being cared for having them in you corner.

It is not surprising you are next to drowning in work, you have a lot going on. Make sure you schedule some Gerda time every now and then. Easier said than done - I know.

Best of luck with the first court appearance. Stay strong, donít waiver - just do what you have to do. After you can let the emotions out.

How are the kids doing with all this? A lot of ďnewĒ information is now out in the open. I do hope they are managing alright.

Thinking about and praying for you and kids.

DnJ


At BD
Me49, W46, S20, S19, S16, D15
M-26, T-29
Oct 8 2017 - Bomb Drop, Moved in w/OM, & Left Kids
Dec 9 2017 - Legal Separation
Currently
Me50, W47, S21, S20, S17, D16

I may give up, but not today.
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