Don - I disagree with everybody here. You're overthinking. She's been hit with a lot lately with the ex's and also her girls just started school.
You've got just what you thought you wanted - a woman who is available for fun (but not too often) and doesn't demand anything of you. Enjoy it! Stop worrying so much!
The only thing I might change is, your default position is to go back to not contacting her. After reading here how many women really appreciate that simple good morning and good night text, may I suggest you just do that? Friendly, supportive, but not demanding. Maybe she is feeling like you're not paying her enough attention and mentioned something about that to D17, who is then feeling defensive of her mom?
The bottom line is - every time you spend time together everything seems ok. So you may just be overthinking/over-reading things in the meantime. Try being consistent - not pushy - with your communication and see if she responds to that.
And as for the cruise - stop worrying about it. Either you two will be good when the time arrives and you'll have a good time, or it won't work out and you'll be in the same place you were initially - single on the cruise with your pick of groupies. No worries.
I again want to thank all three of you for your input. I do value and honestly do try to see all views. I have to say, I by far identify and agree with KML's thoughts and suggestions - perhaps because I want to??? Who knows. Try as I may, I just can't seem to impress on everyone the dynamic of this cruise. You guys just can't seem to grasp how dicey this is - perhaps because you've never dealt with something like this. Going by myself was NEVER an option. Well, it was kinda presented that way early on but quickly became not an option and I was told that very clearly. That is because the price is the same for 2 as it is for 1 - other than taxes. What I was quickly told was if I don't bring someone - they will stick me with another single band member - from another band - likely someone I would meet for the very first time on the ship. Hell to the no! I don't know about you and women seem to be better at this than men but I'm a very private person to begin with . There is no way in hell I'm going to share a small cruise cabin with some strange guy I've never met. Would you do that???? Seriously? And what's worse now is if I go and she doesn't, and if I don't let them know ahead of time and just show up, oh trust me, I'll be toast because they will have spent $379 on a flight that never got used and will think I tried to pull one over on them. This is not some big corporate conglomerate here - this is a small travel agency ran by another somewhat established shall I say B or perhaps C level national musician from the east coast. He's still on television, has a tour bus, plays around the USA, is the real deal - or at least was years and years ago, but like a lot of these "stars" from the past try to do what they can to keep on keeping on into their senior years. You don't screw with people like this and if I screwed this up for the other guys, OMG, they will be PO'd and rightfully so. I already said something to another band members wife about flights that got me in trouble - evidently our deal included flights and their's didn't. No one told me it was a secret so how did I know not to say anything? Yet, I got yelled at for it and still do. So I already have strike 1!
As for not asking her, I said all along - even when others here said "don't wait, do it sooner than later" - that I'd wait as long as I possibly could, which is exactly what I did. I even thought they were pushing me needlessly until the air tickets came in within days of me providing the information. When I spoke with her about it, I stressed that I didn't want this to change anything. Perhaps it has? Who knows???
As for your comments Andrew, how do you see her clinging to me? She's distancing if anything. She's clearly not clinging - at least not to me. Clinging would be calling me, texting me, wanting to see me. She's done the opposite for the last week. If I'm missing something with this, please tell me what it is Andrew. This distancing kinda started last Wednesday and I did exactly what you said, just sent one or two texts a day of that nature. Here is one word for word: "Hey beautiful, hope your long day at work is going well so far. Maybe we can catch up more tonight? Have a great day Wild Girl." She did respond rather quickly with "Thanks you too!" certainly nothing wrong with that, but I can tell you from months of history, it's not typical of her. Even more untypical, I heard nothing else for a day or two. The next two responses days later were single words. So I don't at all see her clinging to me. Again, if I'm missing this, please clue me in.
As for stringing it along - she fully could say "Don, I think I'm changing my mind about going on the cruise with you." Right? Why would it be on me to cancel it on her - and honestly that's not who I am. There is no gun to her head here, she is a 42 year old manager of a salon/spa, she is more than capable of making her own decisions. I should not have to make them for her. That's not my role nor should it be. I've never lied to or mislead her about anything. In fact, if anyone could stand more, I'm pretty sure it's me!!!! If anyone says we are dating, she's quick to correct them. She's very quick to call me her "friend" or her "Buddy" - that's not me doing that.
The bad/sad/wrong part about this is all we can do is mind read - me included. Something is going on, but it's mind reading as to what. I have my own mind read as to what it might be with regard to me and something I may have said totally kidding, but even if I'm correct, it's only a fraction of the total picture. As is very often the case, whatever is going on very likely doesn't have much if anything to do with me. I'm sure many other things are a part of it. Hell, she may not even know why she feels the way she does? She may well just need time to sort it out or let it pass.
I am overthinking it too much - YET AGAIN. Nothing has to happen quickly here. I do think I have to agree with KML and wait another day or so, see if she contacts me and if not, just give her a few, light, casual texts or maybe give her a quick call. Perhaps it's time we do slow down a bit - and honestly it's the change that I sense more than anything. I just purchased a new iPhone 8 Plus - Yay Me LOL - to replace my nearly 6 year old phone. I was SHOCKED when I looked at my past stats for phone time.
April - 59 Minutes May - 130 Minutes June - 1,330 Minutes July - 1,259 Minutes August - 980 Minutes
Pretty obvious, hey? Perhaps we were in too much contact the first couple of months but honestly, it has just been natural and I think in part due to the distance. I'm sure if we lived closer I'd have seen her in person more than a couple times a month rather than spending 20 hours a month on the phone. KML is totally correct, I don't think we've even been together and not had a great time. Even times when she or I might not have felt like getting together but still did, time flies by and we both agree we had a really, really fun time. It actually did even happen again this past Sunday. I was not even going to stop back but forgot a few minor things and said I'd just swing by and have a beer with her... well nearly 5 hours later... Yet, I've not heard from her since my text telling her I got home - radio silence since then. That's the difference as even the last time she came out and we were together for two days, she called a few hours after getting home saying "I'm not even sure why I'm calling you but I just wanted to." That's what's now different. Then again, the kids are back in school and life is different as well.
Originally Posted by kml
You've got just what you thought you wanted - a woman who is available for fun (but not too often) and doesn't demand anything of you. Enjoy it! Stop worrying so much!
I think I need to print this out in huge letters and hang it on my bathroom mirror. I'm being stupid about it all. Whatever it is, it is, I will wait and see and if I don't hear anything by Wednesday evening I'll give her a gentle text and see what happens. Thanks again for your input everyone. Even if I don't agree I do look at it all and take it in - and by all means if you have more, or anyone who's not commented wants to, have at it!
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
As for your comments Andrew, how do you see her clinging to me? She's distancing if anything.
I perhaps expressed myself poorly. I'm not talking about current events, I'm referring to what I've read as a larger pattern / initial reaction.
Her very strong initial push to as some might say "seal the deal" combined with some fairly consistent (and inconsistent) efforts to keep you interested speak to something to me rather different than what a "normal" relationship would be. She is making what seems like a lot of effort to carve out time for you at the detriment of her relationship with her kids for example.
Because I have a tendency to use bad metaphors, you were perhaps a lighthouse in the storm. She knows you are a safe place to rest but is also pulled in other directions. She undoubtedly has other influences around her that you've mentioned that are encouraging her to spend time with you and to have a relationship but there is a lot of "noise" and she's unclear on what "she" actually wants. Hence the bouncing off the windows of the lighthouse and not really trying to find a way in. This is stretching it a bit far now - but perhaps she is self-medicating to quiet the noise and get away from it.
Is she feeling these theoretical expectations from you, from those around her, from herself? No clue.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Well, tonight starts my string of gigs through the next weekend - although one for tomorrow (Saturday) bailed yesterday Long story that just points to the hap-hazard, lackadaisical operations of the band leader for this one but I guess all things considered I should be thankful for the break.
Since re-meeting on June 9, this week has represented the very least in communication between wild girl and myself. Sort of amazing how things go from talking for hours several days a week together with a fair amount of texts, to near silence. Just as amazing is how that change has happened seemingly overnight. We did talk two days ago on Wednesday, with her actually initiating that. We were both watching the ballgame on television from our own respective living rooms. I kept it very casual and in fact thought we were done several times only for her to come back with another comment before finally saying goodnight like she often has. Then nothing yesterday although that's her 12 hour day at work so not totally uncommon.
My mom had her hip replacement earlier today so I'll update Wild Girl on that while on my way to her area to perform tonight at a wedding. I'm kinda sad that I don't really miss it all that much. Perhaps this has forced me to take off the rose colored glasses and look more clearly at what I saw and reported back in June when this all started. I'm not giving up, mind you, just that I guess if it were to stop completely, I won't be missing all that much. I honestly don't think that will happen. I more see that we'll cool things for awhile, they may pick up again and we'll just go on the cruise, likely have fun and rekindle or that will formally finalize it. I was very clear about her not backing out if she agreed to go so I highly doubt she will. Plus she just told her parents 5 days ago! The bigger dilemma would come should I meet someone else and have another 3 month run like this one. That would be difficult, but let's not put the cart before the horse.
Of course, I might end up talking with her this weekend and whatever is bothering her could be passing and things could be back to normal - who knows? I think if anything I'm more sad about potentially losing SOMEONE to do what Wild Girl and I have been doing - less than losing Wild Girl herself. Make sense? And that may sound crass but I'm just trying to be as brutally honest as I always try to be. Of course we cold go right back to where we were in July and August as well - who knows? Time will continue to tell. Plus, with 10 gigs, well now 9, starting me in the face over the next 10 days, who knows who I might meet along the way?
Just thought I'd provide that update. Dang, I do have to admit that these are not nearly as much fun as some of the past Tuesday morning updates I've had. Once you start... LOL
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I was talking with a friend last night when I said "I really want June and July back again." Perhaps even August can be tossed in there as well - actually it should be. But starting with mid-September things have gotten a bit more poopy for me - and I'm not at all just referring to Wild Girl - although it's possibly, or likely related?
Music-wise I made it through my 10 or 11 gig string pretty well, but beyond that... Just not a lot of fun. Clearly I've got some sort of cloud over me. The main guy I gig with clearly has something going on as well and he's been zero fun to perform with. I won't go into details but he clearly wants to be any place else other than on stage. Well, to me, that's tough schnit. Suck it up buttercup and play to the best of your ability. Saturday was something else for my black cloud. Got yelled at from a cop which again too long of a story but none of it made any sense as he kept saying the road is closed and I can't get into the park where I was due on stage within the hour. Well dude, how do you want me to get to work - by helicopter. So after yelling at me he lets me in anyway! And I see all sorts of other cars driving in the same place. HUH? That gig was beyond bizarre in may ways and was capped off by going to the row of portable toilets before getting back on the road. I barely exit the little unit and some middle-age woman gets in my face and reads me out for banging on her urinal. I was stunned/shocked. I'm like, huh???? Lady I'm 50 years old (little white lie there) do you really think I'm going to be banging on urinals? Do you think that's my way of hitting on you or something? I just walked away making some choice comments about how crazy she is/was. I did have a couple good gigs thrown in, including getting to perform with a great blues guitar player I've not seen or played with in at least three years, so that was fun.
My mom's surgery got strange beyond strange and clearly I need to be more involved in the future. I'm not sure what all happened but after delaying her release date by a day and then another day, they wanted to send her to inpatient rehab for two weeks. This was not at all planned and a shock to my mom. My mom and dad just picked a name and went there. Imagine my shock when my dad shows up in my home office about three hours later in tears saying he signed my mom out AMA and had her in the car!!!! So this is where I got involved to try to straighten things out. She is doing much better at home with home rehab so it worked out, but could have been a real problem and was very much an eye opener to me.
I've got one more busy week of gigs here this week and weekend and then I'll be back to my normal pace. I've got to ride with the keyboard player going through whatever he's going through on Wednesday so maybe I'll find out more.
And then there is Wild Girl. I have no clue what is going on with her. We've texted on and off over the last week but not at all like had been the case in the past. She responds rather quickly and engages but has not reached out herself in at least a week if not two - not at all typical for her. I called her on Saturday as I was leaving one gig and on my way to the second where the cop could yell at me and lady accuse me of banging on her porta-potti I got VM and left a message. I was sort of surprised to get a text back within about 30 minutes saying "Sorry I missed your call, I was out shopping with D15 and now am at a house warming party. Maybe we can catch up later?" Hmmmmmm, sounds like the normal wild girl. I told her I'd text her when I was home later and she immediately responded "sounds good". I texted her after I got home, as I said, and have not heard from her since. She was very off the grid on Sunday and Monday - the days her and I would often get together. Of course that just made my mind wander.
So then... there is a friend of a very good friend of mine who was D'd this summer. I didn't pay all too much attention when my friend mentioned her to me but also included "I thought she would be really good for you but she says she's not ready to date yet." Other than thinking, that's a wise choice on her part, I didn't think more of it - until seeing her photo and finding out more. Wow, very, very much my type. I won't go into details as nothing is coming of it right now but it really showed me how much more this lady would be inside of my box and how outside Wild Girl is.
It's almost as I had such a fun summer and now I have to pay the price for it! I mostly really HATE just not knowing what's going on. I really can handle pretty much any truth, just talk to me - something I know I've told Wild Girl early on - yet she is who she is. But as I look at it closer, I'm not at all missing her - I'm missing what I had - namely someone to do things with and I won't lie, fun-filled sleep overs. If we were not tied together with this cruise I'm betting I'd not see her again, but as it is... Eventually this will have to come to some sort of conclusion. If she just wants space, I'm fine with that - just don't limp this along until December and then back out on me. Even backing out on me now I know will be headaches for me. I'm not good at waiting, but I have no choice so I'm back in no contact, at least for now.
It's sad on many levels - for example I'll be meeting the keyboard player 10 or 15 minutes from Wild Girls work and home. If this were back a month, I'd stop in , perhaps bring her lunch or even flowers or something - but clearly not the right move now. I'll get back later in the evening and could swing by for a little while since I've not seen her in person for a little over 2 weeks. Again, not something that makes sense now. What I'll likely do is wait to see if I hear from her or perhaps just shoot a quick little text on my way through.
I'll end here but my next post I want to expand on how all of this is just so senseless and widespread. As I read Joseph's thread on OLD and the craziness of all of that. I know I've said it before and I know many of you disagreed with me but I can't help but say that as a broad rule, the good ones are still married. That's not an absolute as I know there are those of us who are good ones yet still D'd. Nothing is absolute, but we make up the clear minority. There are perhaps 15% of us good ones who were D'd beyond our control. The fact still remains, 80% of the people that are out there and single and that way for a reason. They can't even engage in a healthy starting R. I really wonder who the real Wild Girl is? Is she the person I reconnected with back in June or the person I've experienced since mid-September?
Hopefully these black clouds will move on quickly. Oh, look, it's raining outside - AGAIN. LOL
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Wow, hard to believe but in just two days, this Tuesday, I'll have been D'd for a dozen years already. Where does the time go? I would not have known the date had I not looked here - and I'd not have looked here had my ex W's brother and my favorite member of that family not have died a few days ago - of, sadly, stage 4 lung cancer. More on that in a minute. I really have a great life - pretty much everything I've wanted. I'm very healthy, financially set, semi-retired for nearly 9 years already and for the last year mostly only doing band gigs and a few projects. I'm pretty much acting retired this past year. I've had a really great summer, thanks in part to dating and Wild Girl. Still, it's been 12 plus years since I've been in love. Yes, that's in part by my choice but if anything is missing in my life, it's a SO or someone to love me. The rest is near perfect.
Uncle M, as he was known by many, my exW brother, was a great guy and by far my favorite of the family. He helped me greatly during and after the BD with W - his sister. I've not kept in touch with the family other than my step kids and even that R has been less frequent over the years. I've not spoken to or seen my ex w in what might be 8 years. Uncle Ms funeral will be on the date of our D. If that's not ironic. Wonder if exW even realizes? The visitation will be at a newer church 5 minutes from my house - which is 25 minutes from where he lived and I'm out in farm land for the most part. It's odd that it would be so very close to me. I will for sure go. I'm actually totally fine with seeing everyone. I know they will all be surprised while exW will be majorly uncomfortable. Her AP I'm sure will be there as well. They have been married now longer than we were. So much for affairs not lasting huh? I'm still very pssd that I was not told when my X MIL died. That was totally done so exW would not be uncomfortable. Well not this time. Don't get me wrong, I want to go to pay my respects to a man I really did like very much and was great to me. The fact that it will make ex w squirm is just a bonus. My life really is great and it will be so nice to show up looking and feeling great and to see and talk with everyone. If I can somehow drop in hat I've got a 42 year old hottie going on a cruise with me, that will be total icing on the cake.
Speaking of Wild Girl, not much has changed. Today marks three weeks since ive seen her. She continues to respond enthusiastically to texts but we've not had a long conversation about anything. I recieved my new passport on Friday and sent her a pic. She again said she is "really busy" and "feels like she is never home". She said she was going to try real hard to call me this weekend but warned with my gigs and her girls having homecoming plus her working this weekend plus a football/baseball party on Sunday it may not happen. She said "hopefully she can call me on Monday". Something has clearly backed her off. She has always spoken about us being casual - which I'm totally fine with. But at the same time we'd talk for hours several times a week and txt often, including a few sexts here and there. She'd tell her friends about me and think of me often. All of that has ground to a halt for nearly a month now. Still, when we do communicate and when I saw her last, things were mostly normal. That's the odd part - going from before to now. Thing is, what we have now is not all that abnormal for a casual R. If anything the level of intencity before was likely a lot. So, I'm just staying backed off and letting her have space. That's pretty much all I can do, even though I really do miss the connection and communication. So often something will happen or I'll think of something and ill want to tell Wild Girl about it. I really miss that and hope it returns. Even though I've never thought of her becoming a major LTR, I really do see her as a long term friend or FWB is perhaps more likely, but not closing the door that more could happen. I really enjoy spending time and talking with her. It's weird to have gotten along so well every single time we were together, have a strong sexual connection, really enjoy our conversations, and then without ever having a fight or falling out at all, have things cool off so fast. I really just wonder WHY? Why does this happen so often to so many of us? WHY??? I just don't get it. Still, I believe it could all heat up again just as abruptly as it cooled off and still am hopefully we will have our typical great time when we are together for 10 days in January.
I guess it just goes to show, whether a 25 year R or a summer fling, you just never know when someone will change their mind or have their feelings change. I was a bit fearful that it would happen to me, as it has in the past sometmes. At least that didn't happen. Lol. I'll let ya all know how the funeral goes and if I get a call from Wild Girl.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I am sorry to hear about Uncle M. I hope it isn't awkward with the exW, but I bet it won't be. it's usually only as awkward as you make it.
As far as WildGirl. I believe she is doing the "slow fade". She's hoping eventually it will just die so she doesn't have to do any dirty work. I wouldn't even send the random texts and just stop communication. See what happens. I am glad you can recognize the fun in it while it was happening. I don't think she is the one for you, and she doesn't sound much like fun anymore. If it wasn't for the cruise, would you just end it?
Sorry DH....my favorite uncle died about 5 years ago and he was like a father figure to me. It was really hard so my condolences to you.
I kind of concur with G........I would recommend reaching out to her and trying to coordinate a date or meeting. If she blows you off or gives you the "I am too busy" or something excuse then just retract the offer and tell her that when she figures out her schedule to give you a call and after you do that just walk away....ball is in her court. If she really wants to see you then she will make it happen and find time in her schedule. Good luck!
So sorry about your BIL. CMM has been having a difficult week
As for Wild Girl - sounds to me like what we have here is two Love Avoidants in a relationship! You may want to google Love Avoidants. Fairly typical is you will have a great time together (Love Avoidants need love too, as my friend once said, and they can be very seductive) and then you don't hear from them for a while once their needs for intimacy have been met.
Exhibit #1 - when I was dating (ok, call it "seeing") my old Love Avoidant friend earlier in the year. Our time together was great - great conversation, great sex, lots of laughter, he's very compatible with me and I enjoy him a lot. But the minute it seemed like I wanted anything more (I didn't - my expectations of him were set appropriately low as I knew him from a previous round of dating) - but I think me inviting him to share a fancy hotel room that I got for free while teaching at a conference a short drive from where he lives spooked him. So he has ghosted me since! God bless him, I know he suffers from periodic severe depressions and it's possible he just sunk into one of those. But I think it's most likely that he just felt himself starting to care a little too much about seeing me and had to run back into his cave. I don't take it personally at all.
Just pointing out that IF she is a Love Avoidant, things might have been getting a little too good and that cruise might feel like it's a big expectation.
Exhibit #2 - a guy who I call my "Coffee Buddy", not someone I dated but used to chat with at Starbucks in the mornings before work - he was a Love Avoidant and explained to me once why he doesn't usually call a girl for a date until the day of or the day before. He said "If I make a date on Monday for Friday night it hangs over me all week like a dentist appointment. What if I don't feel like going out on Friday when it rolls around?"
So I guess my point is this: Maybe she's just an avoidant in which case this is just normal behavior - get a little too close and pull back. Doesn't mean she doesn't like you or enjoy your company. I'd quit making ASSumptions and just take it easy, see where it goes.
I got VM and left a message. I was sort of surprised to get a text back within about 30 minutes saying "Sorry I missed your call, I was out shopping with D15 and now am at a house warming party. Maybe we can catch up later?" Hmmmmmm, sounds like the normal wild girl. I told her I'd text her when I was home later and she immediately responded "sounds good". I texted her after I got home, as I said, and have not heard from her since. She was very off the grid on Sunday and Monday - the days her and I would often get together. Of course that just made my mind wander.
LOL