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#2812144 09/12/18 08:10 PM
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been hanging out in this forum for a while. finally got the will to
post my own stitch. been married for 16 years. been together for 22. dog died this year and that's when the spouse started to become a WW. April this year i caught them
both on my bed but according to her, nothing happened so i believed and forgave her. july came and that's when i got the ILYBINILWY spill. so now she's has forgotten everything, me, the house, our two dogs that are still alive and most importantly our daughter. the reason she gave why she became a WW, is because i wasn't there to mourn with her when the dog died March of this year.Me and my daughter were there with her when they put him to sleep. But that night I had to work. That's how I cope with losing a loved one. I keep busy. But for now she's still mourning the loss of our lovely dog, she's still holding on to his ashes and according to her she's still in mourning. But at the same time having an affair with a co-worker, because according to her, he listens to her, he makes her laugh. So for now I have gone dark. D13 turning D-14 this month knows all too well what is happening. W has asked her to lie for her whenever she hangs out with OM. Yet, WW still insists that I have exposed and destroyed D13's innocence by telling her about her A. Right now me and D13 are seeing different therapist. W comes to her sessions, but doesn't know that I see one myself. This is my stitch for now. Will try to expound more if there are q's. Very glad I found this place.


LBH (43) — WW(41)
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Welcome to the Board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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thanks


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Take your time to read what Cadet’s posted. Use the info as tools to work on yourself.

Welcome to the forum.
Keep posting.


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thanks neffer. as what my thread title states, i have been hanging out for a while. been reading every bit of info and applying them as means to work in myself.


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Hi Toenail,

sorry you're here. Mourning a dog stinks, but that doesn't justify an affair. Neither does some funny POS from work listening to her. She shouldn't be talking like that with him anyways.

You literally caught the OM in your own bed? I can't imagine how I'd react.

Has your WW mentioned divorce? What's your daughter say about it?


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Did you say you caught them in YOUR bed, and believed her when she said nothing was going on? What was her 'excuse' for another dude being in your bed with her?


Married: 15yrs
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over and ter...
told me she needed a hug from someone because she was still and still is in mourning. never mind that my daughter was just a couple of feet right next door. hard part about this is the POS was considered a real friend. can come and go
in our house anytime.
with regards to D, she has mentioned she wants out of the M, she felt suffocated. The reason being is after forgiving her. and being the nice guy that I am, I still let her hangout with POS. So i asked her maybe she can tone down the interaction with POS. I trusted her that much. Not knowing that I would've been played for a fool.
Regarding D13, she knows what's happening. she's hurting. and she's with me throughout this hurtful path her
mother is taking. We're in an in-house-separation, WW has been threatening to move out, for lik a lot, but hasn't gone through with it. She's scared probably that she'll lose her D13. WW doesn't come home when I don't work and we know where she is. But when i work she is home late. Probably also scared that if something happens to D13 she'll be blamed for it. D13 has also gone dark with her. WW hasn't even tried to talk to her, text her or even knocked on her door to let her know she's home.


LBH (43) — WW(41)
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over and ter...
told me she needed a hug from someone because she was still and still is in mourning. never mind that my daughter was just a couple of feet right next door. hard part about this is the POS was considered a real friend. can come and go
in our house anytime.
with regards to D, she has mentioned she wants out of the M, she felt suffocated. The reason being is after forgiving her. and being the nice guy that I am, I still let her hangout with POS. So i asked her maybe she can tone down the interaction with POS. I trusted her that much. Not knowing that I would've been played for a fool.
Regarding D13, she knows what's happening. she's hurting. and she's with me throughout this hurtful path her
mother is taking. We're in an in-house-separation, WW has been threatening to move out, for lik a lot, but hasn't gone through with it. She's scared probably that she'll lose her D13. WW doesn't come home when I don't work and we know where she is. But when i work she is home late. Probably also scared that if something happens to D13 she'll be blamed for it. D13 has also gone dark with her. WW hasn't even tried to talk to her, text her or even knocked on her door to let her know she's home.


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Originally Posted by toenail
over and ter...
told me she needed a hug from someone because she was still and still is in mourning. never mind that my daughter was just a couple of feet right next door. hard part about this is the POS was considered a real friend. can come and go
in our house anytime.
with regards to D, she has mentioned she wants out of the M, she felt suffocated. The reason being is after forgiving her. and being the nice guy that I am, I still let her hangout with POS. So i asked her maybe she can tone down the interaction with POS. I trusted her that much. Not knowing that I would've been played for a fool.
Regarding D13, she knows what's happening. she's hurting. and she's with me throughout this hurtful path her
mother is taking. We're in an in-house-separation, WW has been threatening to move out, for lik a lot, but hasn't gone through with it. She's scared probably that she'll lose her D13. WW doesn't come home when I don't work and we know where she is. But when i work she is home late. Probably also scared that if something happens to D13 she'll be blamed for it. D13 has also gone dark with her. WW hasn't even tried to talk to her, text her or even knocked on her door to let her know she's home.


I"m sure people with a lot more knowledge than me will be along shortly. My only advice is to listen to them. Try not to worry about her and him. Take care of yourself and D13.


Married: 15yrs
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took D13 today to her IC. apparently she hasn't tiled her about WW getting frustrated with her and slapping her. So IC told me that it needs to be addressed, and D13 has nothing to be fearful of. Hopefully it produces a positive outcome for D13 and WW.


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Toe,

Hang in there, this stinks big time. I know this is my second go round in 10 years, not sure if I want to R this time. Similar sitch except I would be in jail if I caught them in my bed, M 17, S22 and S14 and both are old enough to understand what is going on for the last 4+ months, W away a lot of weekends and not really there when home mentally.

It's nuts how people in A really lose their mind and they place 100% of the blame on the partner for everything happening and cannot see one thing that they are doing wrong to their kids yet claim that is all they are worried about. Listen to what is been said here implement the tools, they do work. I am a bit impatient because it is the second go round, neither one of us need each other financially and I honestly want to be happy and this in home separation b l o w s.

I don't care male or female, you cheat you are a low life POS. If you want to go that direction end the R first or man up and fix your R. Detach, GAL, 180 do it all but do it for you, it works, if you honestly make the effort you will feel 100% better and will have no problem with the outcome of your M either way. Trust me I'm there, best shape of my life at 49, other women are noticing so I know she is, upgrade the clothes, wear cologne if you didn't before, get out and do things that you've been putting off, take care of your kids. Waiting to respond to texts and emails drives them nuts and I find myself not even reading them anymore for a good while.

It is hard to believe that that many people have such low morals that this many A happen but most of the sitchs are similar. You got to do what you can to shake them or do what you have to to move on. Heck my kids have been telling me to get a D and that they are ok with it because their mom has gone bonkers.

Last edited by lost8; 09/13/18 01:26 PM.

H-50
W-48
T-19
M -18
S23, S14
BD - 5/9/2018
OM discovered 5/10/2018

In house sep - 8/18/2018
Rope drop 2/15/2019
R'ing since 3/15/2019
lost8 #2812254 09/13/18 02:11 PM
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thanks lost. I've always been in good health. Lost 60 lbs 10 years ago and been in the best shape ever since. Been living healthy, running, mountain biking, hiking. Every time we go out with friends, i always got complimented on the way i look, dress and communicate with other people. Hence the frustration of her running away with POS hunts me because he's or maybe i should call him it, It is not even
half of the man I am. But then according to WW, he made her laugh and they shared problems. Too shallow. But then, days have been easier since she doesn't come home. Apparently she doesn't care about D13 so we have all the freedom to GAL. WW wants us out of her life, then of her life we will become.


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her loss, that not just what I am saying about my W, I believe it and that is what you need to move towards. I hope I have a lot of years ahead oh me and I'll be d a m n e d if I'm going to spend the time worrying about her coming back. At least in my situation I had to do a lot of thinking over the last 4 months and really ask myself was I happy before? Was the pain I was feeling after all these years really because she was my soulmate or because I was afraid to move forward on my own. How happy would I be if she did come back? I think she is actually doing me a favor! Obviously a soulmate would not do that to someone they loved and I'm not afraid to move on...looking forward to it.

As I say this my W has asked me to have a drink tonight. My response was sure but letting you know I'm not looking to get married just got out of a bad one...she laughed. And that's how I will approach any conversation with her. She destroyed the marriage so now it's just a drink.


H-50
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T-19
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lost, i always think that when the " butterflies die down" or when her "high" wears off, she would've lost everything. her daughter, family, life long friends, pets. and all she has is her low self esteem.


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Originally Posted by toenail
over and ter...
told me she needed a hug from someone because she was still and still is in mourning. never mind that my daughter was just a couple of feet right next door. hard part about this is the POS was considered a real friend. can come and go
in our house anytime.
with regards to D, she has mentioned she wants out of the M, she felt suffocated. The reason being is after forgiving her. and being the nice guy that I am, I still let her hangout with POS. So i asked her maybe she can tone down the interaction with POS. I trusted her that much. Not knowing that I would've been played for a fool.
Regarding D13, she knows what's happening. she's hurting. and she's with me throughout this hurtful path her
mother is taking. We're in an in-house-separation, WW has been threatening to move out, for lik a lot, but hasn't gone through with it. She's scared probably that she'll lose her D13. WW doesn't come home when I don't work and we know where she is. But when i work she is home late. Probably also scared that if something happens to D13 she'll be blamed for it. D13 has also gone dark with her. WW hasn't even tried to talk to her, text her or even knocked on her door to let her know she's home.

She's cake eating like crazy. Wants the OM and her married life. But then again you found her in bed with another man and what did you really do about it? I'm seriously wanting to know, and I want you to think about it. What were the consequences for her? You can't beat her or anything like that, but did you change your behavior after that?

The OM shouldn't be welcome at all in your home ever again, have you made that clear to him and your W? How good of a "friend" was he? Has he avoided you after this incident? Have you learned anything about "friends" of the opposite sex?

Next time your WW threatens to move out I'd tell her great, get out b/c I don't care to be married to or live with a cheater.

Don't plan your schedule around her to see her or be in the house together. Do your own thing, start your own life, maybe she'll want to be a part of it, and maybe not. Who knows?


H 34
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over, no i did not beat her up or anything. never lifted a finger on her. as for the consequences, i told her i was going to check her phone and she won't be able to hangout with POS. I did change my behavior after that. I became snoopy and kept on asking her q's in where she's been and who she's been with. That's when she felt that i had become vindictive and bully towards her. Hence she said she wants her freedom.
Nope, the POS wasn't welcomed to be at our house alone, but then I work nights and that's when WW involved D13 by asking her to lie for her.
Regarding being friends with the opposite sex, I've trusted WW too much. Look where it got me?Hard lesson but lesson learned.
I've already said my peace with her. she's not to know my schedule and I won't ask hers. she wants me out of her life, and that's what I am right now. Short convo only about D13. But then she doesn't even want to do anything about D13, she's scared of what she'll hear from her.
Oh well as what lost said, it's her loss not mine. As what D13 says, " she's my mother because i came from her other than that i have no relationship with her, she's not acting like a real mother should be"


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Protect your D. Get some boundaries about that. Did your W slap her? You can’t let her do that.

Detach and GAL man. Be strong!
Be there for your D. She needs to be in a secure environment.

You need to be strong Toenail!
Sending you a big hug


WW H(me): 53
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thanks nef. yes the D13 is protected. And D13 already has mentioned it to her IC. and accordingly IC will need to report iif it happens again. IC will also inform WW about the whole thing.

We've already started detaching and GAL. Me and D13 learned more about each other for the past two months than the previous years when she was growing up. Funny that WW is worried about her innocence and yet didn't think about it when WW was asking D13 to lie for her.

Me and D13 are done feeling sad and angry. Right now we just laugh at WW's choices. Some days we don't even talk about her. So, life is good.

Thanks for the hugs!


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Sorry to hear about your sitch, it sounds as tough your W is using the dog's death as an excuse to have a little entertainment on the side. Not saying she's not mourning the dog, but the dog's death in and of itself is not a reason to cheat, nor anyone's death for that matter.

Last edited by Matrix5; 09/13/18 06:54 PM.

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matrix...that's what all her real friends me and D13 have been saying all along. if you think about it and i hope WW sees it this way,
"why was your family ruined? because the dog died." shallow?


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I didn't say you beat her. I meant that you can't beat her, but you still have to take some sort of action.

Your snooping and pursuit (AKA asking her where she's been when you know darn well) showed her that you are still hers, that she hasn't lost anything. A strong man does not worry about a woman who doesn't want him, and you are your WW are back to basic attraction 101 here.

You may have been vindictive, but you got married and both made a promise to forsake all others right? So it's not like you're being vindictive out of the blue. Of course she wants to run free and jump in the OM's bed, but what will you do about it?


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over...you asked me what actions i took after i found them both on my bed. and as i've said started checking her phone and asking her questions. and she considered it as vindictive because even though i forgave her i still have to keep tabs on her. and this happened april. july came and her spill of ILYBINILWY came. and that's when i found out that she was having an A. she said she wants her freedom, so she got it.
Two weeks ago, i said my peace about no contact and not being friends. She's been hounding me for a month about my work schedule so she can come and go as she pleases. D13 doesn't want her home, legally i can't kick her out because the house is both under our names. WW is only staying at night for selfish reasons, so she can't be blamed, god forbid, on whatever happens to D13.


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i've let her go. she hasn't been home for almost a week now. me and D13 doesn't care anymore. D13 now accepts the fact that she is not her mother that she once knew. don't know where she is, don't care where she's staying.


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Well that's all good. Keep working on yourself, for yourself and your daughter.


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thanks for the encouragement ovrr

Last edited by toenail; 09/13/18 08:05 PM. Reason: ovrr

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Hey T, your W is also D’s mother no matter her behavior. Remember that. You must be the lighthouse for your family. Your W is lost into the fog but it is a problem between both of you adult people. Don’t mix your D into your sitch. She is a child, she has to do all the teenager activities she uses to do. Don’t use D to bash her mother. I read she is going to IC, that’s good.

You are the responsible parent, you are the lighthouse.

Keep DB.


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Toenail, she really went off the rails. I mean laying down with OM in the marital bed when she surely knew you would be home soon, and with D just feet away, well it all just sounds like a "girls gone wild" situation. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing- playing with fire. And of course she's going to tell you it's all your fault. Don't buy into the BS. She's a classic wayward wife. If you don't know the difference between a WW and WAW then read around the forums, Sandi's posts in particular. Sandi does not pull any punches when it comes to WW's, she'll tell you tough love is the only approach with a WW.

Originally Posted by toenail
i've let her go. she hasn't been home for almost a week now. me and D13 doesn't care anymore. D13 now accepts the fact that she is not her mother that she once knew. don't know where she is, don't care where she's staying.


This is actually the best thing you can do right now. Leave her to the mess she's made. Her little fantasy is going to blow up in her face at some point and she'll likely come crawling back, but it could be a long time from now. But until then, just concentrate on you and D. Read DR and read the links Cadet posted for how to handle this. No begging/ pleading/ negotiating. Give her time and space.


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thanks nef. hate to admit it but D13 has been involved since WW asked her to lie for her. one example is when
WW decides to hangout with POS, she asks D13 not to tell me anything. so now, D13 is so angry with what WW is doing that she really feels bad for lying to me. WW thought D13 is innocent but D13 has seen , heard, and read things about WW's waywardness. i think IC helps D13 to share how she feels about what WW is doing right now. I can not control or tell D13 how to feel about it. she's in that age wherein she has to express her own feelings. and at the same time i cannot ask D13 to communicate with WW, if she doesn't want to, i cannot force her. WW has a lot of crawling to do just to have a small piece of D13'a heart. WW can keep on saying she loves her D and i can keep on reminding D that WW still loves her but at the end of the day, if WW can't even text D to at least say "HI" then there is nothing
i can do about it. I cannot be a doormat for WW to D13's heart.vindictive?

AS, i don't why i decided to come home early that day. usually come home at 6am. anyways, it has happened and I forgave WW then but with conditions. but being the "nice husband" i was, i still let her continue the friendship with POS. POS is also in a 13 yr relationship with someone and they're trying to have a kid. Hence WW and POS are totally leeching, preying on each other weaknesses. Which me and D13 really find it funny and sad for the both of them.

She wants her freedom, i really hope she's happy. Just thinking that they're both looking back on they're
own shoulders thinking who would be the first one to cheat. HAH!

Last edited by toenail; 09/13/18 09:03 PM. Reason: D13

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update...
had to work tonight. asked D13 if she wants me leave her with friends, she said no, she'll be fine. not an hour later she got a text message from WW, this was after more than a month of not talking to her, letting D13 know that she'll be home late, and worded it in a nice way. WW was probably shook after she met with D13's IC. WW was probably made aware of how D13 told IC about the hitting incident.
Anyway, after asking D13 to reply, even just a simple "OK", she chose not to. And did not force her to.


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would just like to seek advice with regards to saying my piece with her. so i told her that i won't be friends with her, because real friends dont cheat, lie, abd disrespect each other. and she comes back to me with a reply, that it maybe so, and saying that i pushed her to have the affair because i wasnt there during one of her saddest days, thats whenthe dog died, and of course POS came to the rescue. another thing she said was that she didnt really feel forgiveness after catching her on my bed with POS. saying i was just bullying, mocking and vindictive towards her. as ive said , after i caught her , her life will change, i have to ask her q's about her days and who she hangs ouy with, and she considered that bullying. i guess my question is, do i validate this concerns of her or do i just let it go?

and shes still insistent that i exposed D13 to the "adult issues", because D13 read some messages on my phone, regarding POS. wherein she was already asking D13 to lie for her , prior to me discovering her A and D13 seeing my messages. do i respond/validate these issues?


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I don’t know about anyone else and thoughts on what age is appropriate, but after a few months I had to give some info to my S14 about what was going on. He noticed and was being affected by WW absence from the home and iradic behavior. I asked WW multiple times that we needed to speak to S together and she only chose to involve him when I filed for D the first time and when we were waiting for police after an outburst that she had. Both times were to place blame on me for what I was doing.


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thanks lost. actually D13 has a lot of information with regards to whats going on.WW told her that she is moving on with POS. But, WW blames me on why D13 acts indifferent towards her. D13 just , and am using the word HATE, so much. yet, amd being blamed for it. That am using D13 against her. WW doesnt talk to her, doesnt come home for days, and when shes home, puts no effort in communicating with D13. I am left to take care of D13, deal with her emotional issues and hurt , anger feelings towards WW. When WW shows up at D13's IC, D13 feels very upset, knowinv that after the session, or whatever advice the IC gives WW, its out of the door after the session. Frustrating!


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You pushed her? Ahhhhh, so it's all Toenail's fault is it? Which absolves Mrs. Toenail from all wrongdoing it seems. Well, now that her hands are clean, it's time for Toenail to atone for his misdeeds.

And she didn't feel forgiveness after being a cheating #$%!??? She deserved a slap right across the face when she said that. I'm not advocating getting physical, but my blood is boiling reading this.

You can't stand for this disrespect any longer. She had a dude on your bed and then told you she doesn't even give a damn that she did it. Tell her she is scum and leave her lying, cheating ass to sit alone next time. Or go to the OM's house for all you care. Her BS will catch up with her when you stop enabling her.

And as for D13, she told D13 in the first place right? So it's on her. Don't let her put it on you. Be firm, but don't argue incessantly about it. She will most likely continue to keep heaving the blame on you, just tell her politely that's not true and you aren't going to continue to engage her on that subject.

You don't validate any of her lies and BS. Only her feelings.

You are really going to have to toughen up, this woman is running roughshod over you.


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thanks ovrr.i think you need to detach from Mrs. toenail. she’s getting to you😂. Yup, that’s what she said, i was always vindictive and bully towards her because of my questions after the fact i forgave her. Nope, no comms with her equals no arguments. the only reason i asked if would help to validate what she’s yapping about. an 2 paragraph STFU/KISS.
Same thing i tell D13 as what youve said. We need to be tough, we need to be better than her. No need to be better than POS. We can kill a puppy and we’d still be a better person, i mean human than it.


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Keep DB T!

Validate if necessary but don’t get into arguments or R talk. You need to detach and GAL.


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thanks nef.


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WW been off work for 2 days. Note even a peep was said to D13. Thi wall separates them, since WW got kicked out of MBR. Just wondering how she can handle not communicating with D13. According to D13, she doesn’t care. Went mountain biking with D13. Netflix and chill.


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just journaling....

went out and spent the football sunday with D13 at a family friends place. Always nice being outside the house and talking to rational people.
Today was a good day!


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update...
WW hasn’t been home for a while. Bills need to be paid and she hasn’t throw in her share. I can afford it for a couple more months by myself, but after that, I have to fin another option. told WW that i will rent out the extra BR and make
$ out of it. She said no, she’s worried about D13’s safety, even though she doesn’t come home. It’s just funny to
see how she’s all worried about her and yet she hasn’t even tried to talk to her in months. And of course i would not jeopardize D13’s safety. should I ask her directly for the share of the bills, or do I just do it myself.


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You need to talk to her about finances IMO. Why finance her lifestyle? You guys have a joint venture on the home and the bills there. She needs to contribute or GTFO fully.


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update...
asked WW for her share of the bills and gave me an amount which doesn’t even cove 1/4 of the bills. Thru text messages I then told her it’s not enough, and she replied with a very insulting reply, “How much do you need? do i need to support you too?” that’s when i blew my top off. told her “WW you will not and do
not have the right to insult me and talk to me like am a POS, a scum, lowlife, predator. you can talk to it that way but not with me and my D13.”
She took both keys to a vehicle that we both have our names on. Proceeded to ask her for the key to that vehicle because legally i own it too. She wants me to be vindictive, and yes i will be. Just to top it off I also asked for the dogs ashes, since WW has been holding onto it. This is her reason why she had an A. the dog dying.
Then I proceeded to tell her that i will be seeking legal advice on how to proceed with this disrespectful attitude of hers. i will fight for my D13 since she hasn’t been involved in her life for months now. And after telling her those things, I felt a big weight off my shoulders. I know it will still be a long road but this way, i can protect me and D13.
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i forgot to mention, i finally felt what sandi keeps on saying on these forums “we need to take our balls back”


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thanks ovrr. i don’t think she realizes that we live in a community property state. what i own, unfortunately she owns too. and what i owe she owes too. WW is to wrapped with POS not thinking about this things. hence the seeeking of legal advice. thanks for the support.


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So get that legal advice and next time you can set some boundaries to protect you and your D. Keep detaching.


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thanks neff...
i have to work 4 nights in a row. i will give WW this whole week to decide in what she wants and to give me
the items that i have asked for, since she thinks i was vindictive with her, so i will be. on Monday i will get that advice.


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Just calmly tell her what her half of the bills is. Then tell her what she gave you. Then the difference. Tell her she needs to pay.

Get legal advice.


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ovrr... i did tell her last night. and the answer i got was, “ you want me to support you too?”. that for me is an insult. so i told her that she’s also accountable for credit card bills. i don’t need her support. i do good bu myself. i just want WW to share financial responsibilities equally. not even asking to support D13.


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You should be asking her to support your daughter b/c it's her daughter too. You let her slide on any one thing she's gonna know you have a soft spot for her. Give an inch...


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update...
WW came home today and had a talk with D13. i was out to work. D13 recorded the whole convo just in case something bad happens. WW asked D13 if she still wants WW to be part of her life. According to WW she found her own place, not knowing i just saw her this am, taking the same route to work as POS. back to their convo, WW told D13 that me and her are through. D13 says yes, she knows, but told D13 that she want her to stop seeing POS. Of course WW says, “ i hangout with him, but we are not together”.She still thinks D13 can be easily manipulated.D13 tells WW, “sure you’re not”.WW yells at her and tells D13 “my personal life doesn’t have anything to do with yours!” Proceeds to ask D13 if she wants WW to be part of her life. D13 tells her, “ i don’t care. it’s your life, do what you want”. WW starts crying, and apologizing to D13 about hitting her, and trying to justify that it wasn’t even a slap. After not getting the response that she wanted for D13, WW starts yelling “ what do the two of you want with my life?” and starts going upstairs.

with regards to bills, now WW wants to talk about it, how I wanted it split up. Will reply tomorrow when i get
home.

Just checked with D13. says she’s ok. Not affected by WW drama. hopefully


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Toenail,

I've been reading your thread and feel really touched by it. I have an S16 and although there is np violence and no cheating. My W and I separated in May and my S permanently lives with me. He is so angry at his mom for giving up. First thing I want you to know - it will not be easy! You are dealing with a teenager who has their own issues and adding to that- their world as they know it is falling apart. Get her to IC if you can. Do not let these negative thoughts reside and fester within her- better for her to get it out. If not IC go to a school councilor or clergy member if you follow the church or someone who can help. When you spend time with D - be present really be mindful of what she says and does. Let her know this is NOT her fault and she had no part in it. Reach for those memorable moments -try to give her positive memories that she can keep with her about this difficult time.Get connected with her friends it gives you commonality and things to talk about. Be vigilant for signs of depression- lack of motivation, over sleeping always in some sort of pain or discomfort- cutting, just to mention a few. Take her to the doctor if necessary. Make sure your D eats and sleeps well and one thing that I found helpful is to establish some sort of routine for them ( they may not be able to think straight with all that is going on). Know that it is beneficial to them to have a HEALTHY relationship with W but what my priest said was they are old enough to form opinions and process information for themselves- allow them to heal on their terms and in their own time frame. Last but not least - BE OPEN. Keep the door to communication open- keep mind open to signs both positive and negative and act accordingly. Keep your HEART open for both your D and your W. Love with all your heart!! Stay Well- Blessings!


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thanks for the encouragement lw. am glad to have found you in this thread, an LBH with a kid that was left by WW/WAS. D13 goes to IC. She already had a history of cutting prior to this dire situation. It was when her dog was dying. she was so distraught by it, that she expressed her emotions that way. So when WW decides to tell
her about her A, i did not hesitate to find her IC. She knows she is loved by me, and I assure her everyday that WW still loves her, even though in D13’s own eyes, she sees it differently in the way her mother acts towards her. I have already given up in changing her mind in her attitude towards WW. As what D13 told me the last time, when I asked her not be angry at WW, “ why won’t you let me feel what I want to feel?” and that got stuck in my head and realized that’s how the cutting incident happened, when she withholds her feelings. She still. any get over that fact that she is partly to blame for WW’s A. Every time WW hangs out with POS, she’s asks D13 to lie for her. Hence D13 holds herself accountable for that, she always says she should’ve told me.
I also could’ve been happier that I’ve know more about my daughter during this entire stitch, than the years i’ve taken care of her. Always staying positive despite the negative sitch. Being strong not just for myself but for D13 as well.


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Be there for your D, toe. She must keep doing IC. Try to keep your husband-wife sitch away from her. W is her mother, of course D loves her so understand D´s pain and deception. Don´t fuel that fire, I know you aren´t. Read Lone previous post.

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thanks nef.
that’s the thing i don’t fuel the fire. WW does it herself. When WW doesn’t come home and D13 asks if she is, of course i won’t lie to her. I always try my best to steer D13’s mind off the negativity, but it’s the elephant in the room. I cant help if she asks questions why WW is like this or like that. Just trying to be honest and strong in front of her.


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Keep the lighthouse shining


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thanks nef...
lighthouse is always and will always be shining. WW has a convo with D13 last night.WW mentions to her that she can’t stand this “house”. D13 answers, “well it’s home for me.”. WW continues to argue, “nomits just a house”D13 ignores her and leaves.


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Your wife is having a hard time, so keep that in mind when you interact with her. She's taking it out on others. Don't take what she says at face value. Tell your daughter the same.


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thanks ovrr...
convo for the whole week is about bills, nothing else. my messages to her are business type, no pronouns. straight up business. WW’s convo with D14 happened because, D14 said something about WW hitting her and of course IC has to stop/control it right away. Plus D14’s IC suggests to WW that she needs to build R with D14. WW probably got shook too about the hitting incident, that she doesn’t want to lose D14. WW apologized and was crying about it. Unfortunately D14 wasn’t buying any of it. WW did this to herself, and only she can fix it.,4


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journaling...
D13 turns D14 today. didn’t plan anything special. just got her an ice cream cake for breakfast. chicken wings and mac n cheese for dinner. her favorite food. was thinking WW might take her some place.she asked D14 if she wants to go out for dinner, D14 says, ”no thanks”.
D14 plans in having dinner tomorrow with some friends.


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toe,

My S when asked what he wanted for his bday recently replied- my family. I think he knows I'm trying my best. He did his best to downplay his bday -I wanted to do something special for him but he just said it didn't matter. Anyways stay connected -stay positive!


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thanks lw.
likewise with D14 she wants her family back. but every time, she thinks about what WW is doing, she loses hope, suddenly she has a negative outlook of the world around her. trying to keep her positive everyday.


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update...
went out to dinner with D14. had a steak, her favorite. she seems fine.


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toe,

She may seem fine on the outside. Just be mindful and present when you are with her. As I said before - reach for those memorable moments to connect with D14. Sounds like you guys had a great time - Keep it up !!


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update...
got a text message from WW last night about how she wants out of the M, because she doesn’t want to be with me and doesn’t want to deal with the bullying and immaturity. Had to reply to it. Told her, how not getting caught in bed, WW having an illicit A, her daughter seeing how she acts with POS, isn’t immature? Added, i forgave you and yet she still continued to hangout with POS. Long story short, ended my message with, D14 is being taken care of an immature bully, aren’t you worried about it! Maybe you need to step up.


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Told her too, if she wants to file for D, then she does it herself. It’s not the way Inwant to end this MR, but that’s where your mind is set at then do the necessary steps.


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A good response except for the name calling. Don't stoop down unless you just want a fight.


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thanks ovrr...
can’t help but call OM a POS. should’ve just said it.


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I was referring to you calling your W a bully.

As for the OM, I wouldn't even talk about him. There's no point.


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yup. thanks for that ovrr.

Last edited by toenail; 09/24/18 03:10 AM.

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update...
WW home after a whole weekend of NC with D14. She told D14 last week she has her own place and yet, she comes
home every am to shower and leave for work. hmmm...D14 knows she doesn’t have a place and just spending the nights with POS. must be tiring.


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It is tiring and stressful, for you and your daughter. Make sure you are standing tall for your daughter, she doesn't need to 2 dysfunctional parents.


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Originally Posted by toenail
update...
got a text message from WW last night about how she wants out of the M, because she doesn’t want to be with me and doesn’t want to deal with the bullying and immaturity. Had to reply to it. Told her, how not getting caught in bed, WW having an illicit A, her daughter seeing how she acts with POS, isn’t immature? Added, i forgave you and yet she still continued to hangout with POS. Long story short, ended my message with, D14 is being taken care of an immature bully, aren’t you worried about it! Maybe you need to step up.


First of all, no you didn't have to reply to it. Get that idea out of your head, that you need to reply to every crazy thing she sends you. Sometimes silence is the best reply of all. Second of all, if you replied, it should have been nothing but validation. "It sounds like you are frustrated because you feel I bully you and am being immature, I am sorry I make you feel that way." Note that you are not agreeing with what she said, you are simply acknowledging her FEELINGS which is what validation is. Why do you respond this way? BECAUSE IT IMMEDIATELY DEFUSES THE SITUATION. A fire cannot burn without fuel and oxygen. Take one away and you snuff out the fire. Your response simply threw more fuel onto a raging fire and left you both feeling angry and frustrated.

Last edited by AnotherStander; 09/24/18 08:24 PM.

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thanks AS...
need to be more patient....and validate more...she’s been sending me these messages, and it was the first time i replied...should’ve been more validation than adding fuel to the fire...this replying thing is where i get lost...next time will ask for advice in this forum before replying...would it be too late to validate her feelings?...just asking for a friend...
thanks again.


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thanks ovrr...
be assured that there is one properly functioning parent. i sometimes it was me that became the WS, i could’ve just walked away, and ever worry about D14. but i guess faith chose a better one or a rational one to take care, and be her rock. Being the best dad for D14 is one of the main goals of my DB’ing.
D14 will have her IC today. She has to read a letter that she wrote about her feelings towards WW attitude right now.
D14 is kinda scared, she just doesn’t want to get yelled at when she gets home. Going out to dinner after.Is it a good idea to ask WW to come with us? Been NC with her for a while now.


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update...
WW and D14 and her IC sat down together and read her letter to her mom. D14 got frustrated because she called WW a liar on her letter, and WW gave a snarky comment that she wasn’t. That was it for D14, she told the IC that she will
never put anymore effort in building their R. If WW wants to be part of her life, then WW needs to do all the work. IC agreed with her halfway, but advised D14 to not close her door totally. WW still blaming me for D14 being hostile against her. In the end, D14 has to at least let WW take her to school even for once a week and have dinner too. just to start rebuilding their R. D14 is feeling hopelesss and negative about the whole thing, with the way WW is acting.
Me and D14 also came into an agreement that WW looks really tired and beat.


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Hey T, remember you need to GAL. It’s an important part of DBing. Not only with D, you need to GAL yourself.

Stay strong!


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Funny my S14 is disgusted at his WW mom as well. I din't have to tell him he sees what is going on and they have the internet...they are pretty smart at that age and he feels the same.


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thanks nef...i am always GAL. hiking with pups,biking, watching football at the bar, gym. usually when i involve D14, it’s kinda wholesome.

hey lost. Still WW thinks i influence D14. it’s like, geez, she knows what you’re doing. but whatever, as i’ve said, D14 has kinda lost hope in improving R with WW. she will have to crawl on both her hands and knees to get back or at
least have a piece of D14’s heart.


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update...
D14 getting anxious about WW driving her to school. told her to just be civil. don’t react to whatever WW says, even if you feel it’s negative. just answer yes or no. WW hasn’t driven her to school or anywhere else in a long time.
Meanwhile, am off to the gym.


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Good job, Dad.


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thanks ovrr. just trying to be the best dad and best toenail at a fool would leave.

just a quickie, after IC is done with D14, she usually calls us,me and WW and let us know about D14’s progress, my quickie is, am trying to go dark, NC with WW, should i still be showing up to D14’s sessions? Last one, I was all dressed nicely, looked confident, and appeared happy, which i really was. As i’ve mentioned on my previous posts, WW looks tired and beaten, which D14 also noticed. Reason am asking is, I don’t want WW to think that am overly prepared or just pretending to be happy during D14’s IC sessions. I always try to look decent/nice every time I go meet D14’s teachers or her friends parents. Should I tone it down or should I just leave D14 and pick her up when she gets done so WW won’t see me?

Another quickie, should I be saying something during those meet ups with D14’s IC or should I just be silent? When I say something, It’s all about D14 and nothing else and nothing negative about either one of us. Just don’t like telling stories of what me and D14 are doing with our lives, that WW doesn’t know anything about. I think I know the answers to my q’s, just need somebody’s feedback. Gracias!


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A week ago, WW mentioned to D14 that she has found her own place. D14 figured it out right away that she just spends the nights with POS, because she still comes home early mornings to get ready for work, and another thing, WW never asked D14 if she wants to see her “place”.
She texts me the same thing, and this is where I said something wrong, she took both keys for a vehicle we both have our names on, and i asked for the spare key. I know i should’ve just let that go, but i slid down. also, i asked for her to not take the dogs’ ashes with her in her new home, as our home is his permanent home. too shallow on my part, and i realized that after i sent a text message.

i promised my self, from this day onward, i would reply to her messages, save it my phones’ notepad and save it instead of sending it. vindictiveness still gets the best of me, and i should learn to control it. validate, validate, validate. reply only when necessary.

As what AS said, no need to reply, dont add fuel to the fire, validate!

Last edited by toenail; 09/26/18 09:51 PM.

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update...
D14 hasn’t heard anything from WW about bringing her to school and having dinner with her tomorrow, Friday, as advised by IC. should i contact WW and ask her? D14’s IC has also advised me to stay away from their equation. I strongly agree with her, but at the same time D14 appears to be more frustrated with WW than anxious.


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update...
Finally made an appointment with L. not til the 9th of next month. whoah! seems like they’re all tied up. i’ve been reading a lot about how my state is a community property. what i own WW owns half and what I owe WW owes it too.
if i was an a-hole, i would go out today and purchase a bike. i miss the thrill and the speed. anyways, back to the L concern, it’s the custody with D14 is what i will be more focused about. Unfortunately i live in a no fault state. The L consult is not because i want to file for D, i would let WW have that luxury, it’s just to have some knowledge and power to know where me and D14 stand.


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No need to contact her. Your 14 year old probably knows how to make a phone call if she needs to. Don't try to be the "good guy" who's going to make your W have relationship with your daughter.


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thanks ovrr...
oh i wasn’t going to. WW knows D14’s number. and i am also done being a doormat for WW to have a relationship with D14. i have said this to WW, after A was discovered.


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Hey toe,

I struggle with how to proceed with my S16 also. What I think is we need to stay out of it and let it take its course with the hope for good outcome. What I have done which helped is transfer ALL the love that I had for W to my S. Be the BEST DAD you can be. Stay well!!


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S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
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thanks lw...

i have decided to take myself out of that equation. the way i see it, if i tell D14 to do something with her mom, then it appears like am ordering her.but if it comes directly from WW, then D14 sees it as asking or a request. I am trying to devote all my love and energy to D14 for a while now. being in this forums, and comparing my sitch to everyone else has made me realize, that our world, mine and D14’s will be better, a whole lot better.

good morning.


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update...
WW drove D14 to school and D14 wasn’t happy at all. told her to be just civil. begged me to pick her up later, and i will. reminded her that she still needs to have dinner with WW. D14’s answer to it is just order to go, eat at home, spend 5 minutes with her of no talking. then go to her room. Didn’t make any comments to her plan. All i said was, you need to have an R with WW. She just grunted.


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update...
according to D14, drive went well. she rode at the back. WW asked her why shes sitting at the back, D14 didn’t say anything. WW offered to pick her up after school, D14 declined. when she got off, WW said ILY, D14 just laughed and proceeded to walk to school.
Am off to work.


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That sounds like my interactions with D15 every day. ☹️


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hi steve.
D14 explains the laughter is more of a sarcastic one. “she hasn’t talked to me for a long time, never asked how i am, haven’t acted like a mother for months, suddenly she says ILY?! wanted to say something, but i didn’t want to ruin my day.”


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update...
D14 off to a party, asked WW if she could pick her up. WW, reply was, she can’t, she’s not D14’s slave. D14 very pissed! now i have to get off work and pick her up.


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Be strong, be your daughter's dad. Don't worry about how your W is messing up. It won't do a damn thing for you. So be positive bc you can be, and make a good life for your kids.


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thanks ovrr.
i am, we both are, everyday just trying to be better and stronger. it’s just mind boggling that WW attends D14’s IC and yet she doesn’t listen/follow through with the IC’a advise / recommendations. What WW wants is for D14 to do the needed work to fix their R, and i know it’s not just up to D14 to do all the work, WW has to do something else.I would like to say something to WW during D14’s IC, but am conflicted if i need to say it. it goes something to this effect;

LBH; hey WW, we need to address the elephant in the room, and that is you’re having an A. and your D14 hates whatever you’re doing. You just cannot force D14 to fix your R with her, because you’re in a situation she despises. You just cannot assert your authority as a parent by yelling or raising your voice at her. The minute you hit her, you became equals, yes you are her mother and according to her she came out of you and that is how far she thinks your R is with her. Truthfully, as long as in you’re in this A, she won’t and will not put any effort to fix on whatever R you force her into.
According to you, you found a place of your own, and yet after days of being out, you come home, shower and get ready for work. D14 knows you are living with POS, apparently you haven’t invited her to your new place and she’s asking me if i know your address. I think you just need to be honest with her, stop the lies and just maybe your R with her might still be salvageable.”

Anybody have any thoughts/comments/suggestions? Should i just not say anything?

Last edited by toenail; 09/30/18 11:55 AM.

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Yep. Don’t say it.

Selfishness, lack of responsabilities, that’s wws world. There’s no need to confront. It’s her state of mind.
Protect your D, be there for her, you are her role model. You can’t save WW if she doesn’t want to save herself. It’s her voyage.

(((Hugs)))


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Toe, the way I see it WW knows all this and has set out on her path. None of us can help our WASs or drive sense into their dimwit skulls. Every time I see WH coming over to pick up Ds I wonder how he lives with himself. Putting their own children in harms way is their own choice. We can only minimize the damage they are causing. Don’t confront her there is nothing to be gained

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thanks nef. thanks sia.

just wanted other people’s opinion, since i feel like the IC would be a better forum to voice our opinions. And yes, i would just be a quiet, happy, confident me during D14’s IC sessions. D14 told me the other day that she feels that WW going to D14’s IC is a waste because at the end of it, WW doesn’t apply what IC has told her, or doesn’t do anything at all. I feel that D14 is really building up the hatred towards WW that she’s reaching the point of no return.


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you’re absolutely right neff! the selfishness with me, i can live with it, it’s the way it affects D14 that gets to me. I can go dark, detach, NC, but when she does things that bothers D14, that’s when i crumble. WW doesn’t have anymore sense of responsibility towards D14! just kills me.


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off to work. just being positive. and staying strong. here goes anothe week!


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update...
went to see my IC today, and he gave me. very sound advice with regards to helping my D14’s R with WW. according to him, since am doing NC with WW, it is hurting my D14 in the long run, “monkey do, monkey see”. If I don’t talk to WW, D14 follows my lead as I am the responsible adult in her life right now. IC suggests to sit down with WW and tell her that we need to communicate better, as our NC is hurting D14. My question now is, do i do it or is this counter intuitive to NC?. i love D14 and i don’t want her hurt or ruined, and i also would like it if she has an R with WW. if i should do this, do i text her? email? handwritten letter? or just sit down with her? i would be approaching it this way, hopefully somebody chimes in:

LBH: WW i am angry and hurt at what you’re doing right now. you can call it what you want but for me and D14 we see it as an A. but i am going to be the better person here and let you know that we are destroying our D14 by not talking. We need to better communicate. If you can’t or you won’t we can ask a mediator (IC) to be in the middle of it.The way I see it, because I am engaged with you even for just a simple convo about D14, she follows my lead. So to stop the further harm that we’re doing to her, we need to change our dynamics.


i don’t want to appear weak, begging or pursuing, hence am here to ask for help.


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Take my advice with a grain of salt, i dont have any qualifications to give anyone advice. I dont know if your W cares or not, but id be hesitant to add that your D14 follows your lead. That opens you up to blame down the road when something else goes wrong in their R. I may be thinking of the way my sitch usually goes, but just food for thought. If your W is anything like mine, youll get blamed for any and everything.


New Thread:

just hanging 2 - help with WW

Last edited by job; 10/01/18 10:22 PM. Reason: add link to new thread

Together:20 years
M:3 years
Me:40
WW:40
S15
A suspected:5/17
AC:5/18
BD:8/18
WW in full blown R w/ OM
Still under same roof
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