Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster… sorry, this will be a little long, but my marital issues span 3 years…
A little background: Me 41, wife 40, 3 kids (10, 8, 8). Together 22 years, married 12. We were our each other’s first partner, and had a long distance relationship early on (living in 2 different counties), even though we’ve known each other all of our lives (our parents are friends), and she is originally from the same country as me until her family moved to the States when she was 10. I moved here following her 12 years later. Been living together since 2000.
Our marriage was never ‘awesome’. We used to fight and argue over small things, and we attribute this to our immature/young age at which we moved in together and married. On top of that, for 13 years, I have been less than ideal husband. Didn’t do anything stupid, never cheated, never abused her in any shape or form, but I had these negatives about me that did not make me husband of the year to say to least. I used to have an anger problem (I never hit here, but I did raise my voice and yell whenever we argued), was emotionally distant, not really affectionate, sour face, and in short – was not there for her emotionally, even though she put herself first for me all those years.
2015
In 2015, there was a huge blowout between my wife and my sister, during which my sister pushed her. This took place back in our home country where my family still resides (we were there on vacation). Being the mentally handicapped husband and Mr. Nice Guy, I was not firm enough against my sister, and was not protective of my wife, as she puts it. She says that that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. This is where things started going downhill between us, and we started growing apart. In that fall of that year, for my birthday, she bought me a surprise trip to the Caribbean. She claimed she wanted to prove to me how good of a wife I had in light of that incident with my sister. She wanted to ‘open my eyes’. In order to coordinate time off for that trip without my knowledge, she engaged the help of my co-worker, was is more than just a colleague (sits right next to me at work), but a friend too. This is where things really took a turn for the worse (for me). Their trip coordination, turned into a back and forth texting over general things. She met him for sushi once (with my knowledge), I couldn’t make it to be there too. This all started in 2015. When I confronted her after feeling her texting and outings were getting a little suspicious, she became very defensive, and claimed she has the right to have male friends and that nothing funny was taking place, and refused to cut off ties with him over my resistance. She mainly denied that it was even him she was talking to and occasionally seeing. She encouraged me to get a life (literally), get more social, find friends of my own (yes females friends are ok), and just let her be; give her space, get away from her. She claimed I was ‘suffocating’ her with all my questions and inquires, and it was just pushing her away further.
April 2016
I came across a text conversation she had with someone by the name of ‘Jessica’. I didn’t get a chance to catch ‘Jessica’s phone number, before she caught me going through phone. She grabbed the phone in anger, ran into the bathroom and deleted that whole conversation with ‘Jessica’, not before I’m sure letting her know that I’m on to them. She came out of the bathroom apologizing and trying to hug me, telling me she made a mistake. I was in tears, I was shattered, and that was just based on her talking to someone in somewhat inappropriate and confidential way. Didn’t even occur to me it was a man behind that alias.
June 2016
Found out that ‘Jessica’ was actually my co-worker (duh…. Stupid me), after gaining access to her iCloud ID. I tried to hide my discovery, but I guess the color on my face (or lack thereof) gave it way and she pressed to know what’s the matter. When I told her I know it was my co-worker she was talking to, she denied, blaming it on some stupid Apple glitch. I have a tech background, and know fully well, that was a BS excuse. Things escalated very quickly, and we decided that a divorce would be the best way, as we both appear to have grown apart in recent years, and especially after what happened in 2015 with my sister. I must mentioned that later on in the year, I did take fully responsibility for not taking a harsher stance against my sister, and not putting my wife ahead of her (more on that in a moment).
September 2016
While on a trip back to our homeland (just me), things blew up over chat (She demanded I cut ties with my sister). I did that to prove I have changed and that my W is my number 1 priority going forward. I also promised to work on myself and be the best version of myself I can possibly be. Fix all the things that sucked about me as a husband. We reconciled over chat, and by the time I returned back to the States, she couldn’t help but not keep her hands off of me. We made love (she initiated) the moment I walked in through the door from the airport. Things were ok for a few weeks, until I slipped, made some stupid comment about her sister, and the whole wound got reopened – my fault I take full responsibility.
Feb 2017
We had sex once, out of the blue, she initiated. First time since the previous summer when I got back from that trip. Feb. 2017 was also the last time we had sex since…. That’s 19 months now of sexless marriage, and counting… She claims she just lost her sex drive… (don’t know if it’s the truth or she gets her needs met somewhere else….)
September 2016 – July 2017
She continued to go out with friends. Some I’m sure were with girlfriends, other occasions I have reasons (based on discoveries I made) were with him. Meanwhile a divorced friend referred me to Michele’s DB book. I read it, along with other self-development books. I used that time to do a lot of growing internally, and realized that no matter how much I fret, complain, and accuse, I can’t: 1) control who she talks and sees 2) I have no right to tell her what to do (this is not N. Korea), and 3) worrying over her whereabouts and who she talks to only drives me crazier and does nothing to improve my own self being.
July 2017
After catching her on the phone with him, I sat her down and explained that I have done a lot of thinking, soul searching, and have realized that I can be a secured husband, that doesn’t and shouldn’t worry about what she’s up to. She again adamantly denied she was up to anything and wasn’t talking to him, nor seeing him. When I told her I eavesdropped on her conversations and that I KNEW she was talking to him based on the content of the conversation, she finally admitted. I told her that I was ok with her talking to him as much as she wants (as long as it’s platonic friendship of course), and all I ask was for her to be honest and forthcoming with me. I explained I have grown internally, was secure, and was ok with her talking to him, all I was asking was honesty. She finally broke down, and admitted that she has been indeed talking and chatting with him, but she only did in secret because she was afraid I was going to blow a gasket (based on comments I made back in 2015-16 during which I made it clear I was against them talking).
July 2017-Summer 2018
My self-soul search continued. I developed more security and have learned to understand that I can’t and shouldn’t work myself up over things I have no control over. I used that time to GAL. Things seemed to be getting on track, very slowly, but the arguments and accusations subsided a little bit. The problem however is that from time to time, I catch myself slip and can’t help by snooping around. Some of the things I found out (chronologically starting back in 2015):
1. Her outing didn’t always make sense (timeframe, her clothing, etc.) 2. I found an ‘anniversary’ card in her nightstand with his handwriting. Appeared to be written in a joking, yet loving matter. When I confronted her she laughed and claimed it was from one of her patients (She’s a nurse). 3. Found toll charges going towards an area where my co-worker lives, even though on that evening she said she was going to her female friend who lives 5 minutes away. Left around 4pm, didn’t get back until almost midnight… Also found a charge from a sushi restaurant not too far from his place from that night. She claims she ‘treated’ her friend to sushi – something she doesn’t usually do. When I confronted my co-worker he denied anything to do with her that weekend. Claims he didn’t see her, and never touched her (when I told him I was sensing something inappropriate was going on) 4. Found her wearing an XL Nantucket men’s t-shirt. She’s never been to Nantucket, but my co-worker spent his summers growing up there. When I confronted her she said her dad gave it to her. Something I obviously could have cross-checked with her dad, but I guess she knew I wouldn’t. 5. I could be wrong on this one, but at the time, I could have sworn she’d wear more-sexy underwear whenever she went on those outing. Not sure, I could be wrong on this one, but at the time I seemed she was. 6. For her 40th birthday party, my co-worker and his family were invited. They came over with a bottle of wine. My W was upset (“who comes to a birthday party with a bottle of wine?”), but seemed more upset with his wife about it, than him (“Well, she’s a woman, I’d expect her to pick a gift, no him). 2 months later, I’m at work, and she sends me a picture of a Dyson vacuum that her girlfriend supposedly bought her – delivered by mail (according to her they promised her that a gift was coming soon). Didn’t think too much of it, until a few weeks ago, I got on her Gmail account (she forgot to log off) and found out a purchase she made at a Home Depot nearby his place, with his name as the pick-up person. She’s always been very careful with spending, and especially in recent months since she has been between jobs and unemployed. I couldn’t figure out why she would buy him a power tool out of the blue and while unemployed, and counting every penny she was spending otherwise. That’s when it occurred to me that the vacuum was a late gift from him. When I went to check the vacuum’s box, the shipping label was ripped off the box. I assume it must have had his name on it. I decided to let it go and figured she must have felt obligated to buy him something for his birthday which was in June, after he bought her something. I’m not sure why she didn’t come clean about the vacuum, but my guess is that I would have questioned the nature of their friendship had I found out he spent $400 on her. I continued to ignore it and get over it mentally, until last night…. 7. She’s in a family plan with her dad. While stopping by at her folks place last night, I got a chance to login to their cellular bill and see her usage. There were 9 total phone calls over a span of the just the last 12 days, adding up to 55 minutes. 2 of those calls were made during a time she was out of the house with her ‘girlfriends’. One phone call was made at 6:50 in the morning (his commuting time). My daughter had previously told me that “mom gets in the car early in the morning and talks on her cellphone from her car, while parked in the garage”. To me, clearly it was a window of her catching him alone on his way to work, and she did it from her car so the kids couldn’t listen. When I confronted her about those phone calls early in the morning, she claimed she was on the phone with girlfriend from Texas who had recently had a baby and wasn’t sleeping at that hour. Said she did the talking from her car because she didn’t want to wake up the kids (I’m usually out of the house around 5am for the gym). So as you can see, there’s plenty of circumstantial evidence to raise smoke…. And when someone is secretive about their affairs (no pun), even after I assured her that I’m ok with it as long as nothing funny was going on, something just doesn’t add up.
This latest phone bill discoveries proves that: 1. She IS talking to him, despite denying talking to him anymore 2. The timeline on a couple of those calls coincides with 2 evening outings she made which didn’t make sense with the timing, clothing (underdressed on one of them), etc.
To sum things up, the last 3 years have been an absolute hell. A roller-coaster if you will. The highs are that I’ve grown and matured mentally, and learned to just let go and GAL. The lows are that when I trip, and start sniffing around, I come across all sorts of things that don’t add up from time to time, and raise suspicion. She claims she finds him like a female friend. That she talks to him on everything and anything that goes on in her life, nothing sexual, just a friend. But all those things I listed above, and I’m sure I’m forgetting some, just don’t add up. This sounds more than just platonic friendship.
When we get into a heated argument, she admits she has checked out, and that we have only 10 years until our youngest graduates from high school and we can go our separate ways (can’t afford a divorce with her being unemployed). I really would like to save this marriage, but I also know now, after doing a 180 that I’ll be ok no matter what. But I DO want to try and save the marriage. When things are calm we seem to get along great (minus the lack of sex or any affection). She seems lost as far as what she wants to do. She just knows that we need to learn to spend the next 10 years amicably for the sake of the kids, and to make things livable inside the household.
I believe, that by doing 180 and GAL, I have more than enough time to reel her back to me. But the problem is that I keep on stumbling, and every time I stumble, I sniff around and find something new that just makes me want to hire a PI and call her out on all her BS. I hate to be made a fool. I feel that by GAL, while helping myself, I also feel that I let her make a fool out of me. As far as my co-worker is concerned, he is the last person I’d ever imagine doing anything like that. A good, honest, family guy (3 kids of his own), friend, and a very paranoid person at it. Every time I got into an accusation session and she would tell him about it, he always freaks out, afraid he’ll lose his own family and job because of what I may do.
So what do I do? Continue with my 180 and GAL and let her keep on living this apparent nonsense, or call her out?
Thank you in advance for reading, listening, and advising.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you Cadet. I have read the DR book twice. and have been doing a 180/GAL for over a year now. Just not sure where to go with her, given that her sideshow is still live and kicking. Let it go and hope it either dies or just a platonic, friendly relationship (been 3 years now), or go full bore and dig stuff up to validate?
After 3 years, I would like to believe that either would have blown up in my face by now (confession or me finding something really incriminating), or it would have died. Neither has happened, which makes me believe (or at least that what I'd like to believe) that it's just an innocent friendship with some dirty humor mixed in, which I'm totally misinterpreting.
Then there is the lack of closeness. No sex and touch in 17 months is taking a mental toll on me. I'd love to know if she's not interested because she feels disconnected from me, or because she's getting her needs met somewhere else....
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Welcome to the board you are in great hands right now with experienced people who will give you advice. Three years is a long time to be living in a stressful situation.
The good news is there is a saying here "you have been giving the gift of time" and it sounds like you have a really long time (10 years) to turn this around.
The bad news is your wife is having an affair with your co-worker and is cake eating like there is no tomorrow. Make no mistake about it she is having an affair.
If you knew for sure and had 100% concrete evidence would it change anything for you? Is it a deal breaker? If it is not stop confronting her about it.
You can't make her stop, you can't control her the only person you can control is yourself. Focus on self improvement, exercise, eat right, learn new things, take up a hobby and completely take the focus off of her and the affair.
Read up on boundaries and comeback and post some boundaries you may want to set. Don't do or say anything to your wife until you post them here first.
You found a good place to Vent and get some advice and 2×4 we tell you the truth. So here is my thoughts
I was never the one to confront OW to me it wasn't worth it. I expected W wanted to fight for her. Not... I was like you I have grown mentally and I know my worth. I know I am a dam good W and mom.
So this is your coworker right. Many would say contact OM wife. Call him out on his crap. But many will also say No let her do her thing and GAL
So only you know what's right.
But most importantly you must protect your fiance. Your W not working take W name off Credit card. You don't have to even tell your W. I didn't tell my W my credit cards W was just an authorize user, W monster on how embarrassing it was getting things in store and when W went to pay it was declined. Yelp declined. My thoughts where hey you acting single you say we are not a couple so this is what couples do.
Trust me true colors and monsters will come out. MlC or WAW like to spend on OW or OM.
So keep doing you keep protecting your kids and your finances please Handle that.
And again if you feel is right to contact Wife of OM then do it you have the proof.
You seem like a nice guy. Is time to not be Mr nice for now...
Remember lots of rest, eat well, take care of yourself so you can be even a better version of yourself.
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
The bad news is your wife is having an affair with your co-worker and is cake eating like there is no tomorrow. Make no mistake about it she is having an affair.
If you knew for sure and had 100% concrete evidence would it change anything for you? Is it a deal breaker? If it is not stop confronting her about it.
I think if I came across concrete evidence that an intercourse was involved, that is something I don't think I can just move on from. That would be a big red line for me.
Originally Posted by LH19
Read up on boundaries and comeback and post some boundaries you may want to set. Don't do or say anything to your wife until you post them here first.
We are here for you. Get to work!
Will do, thank you very much
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Well the one thing you do know is she is not interested in you.
Have you read the pursuit and distance thread?
She herself does not know what she wants. During heated arguments (usually when I bring up the OM), she gets defensive with the ‘you’re suffocating me with the spying and accusations, and there’s zero trust between us’.
When I tell her I’d be interested in fixing this this marriage (without begging, just a matter of fact), and ask her if that’s something she feels worth fixing, she replies with “I don’t know how to fix this and I don’t know if there’s anything left to fix”. When I suggested counseling she said she is not paying a pro to tell her what she already knows. When I explain that a pro will give us a 3rd party, neutral POV, she negates it by saying she doesn’t care of anyone’s opinion. That only her opinion is what counts in her book.
But then, if we stay away from arguments for a 2-3 weeks, and communicate correctly with each other, and I don’t trip and come up with sort of accusation with regards to OM, she seems to be slowly opening up to me. She even said so herself…. We go well for a couple of weeks, I’m starting to open up towards you, let you my whereabouts and who I’m going out with, just for you to accuse me of doing something with the OM. That’s just reopens the wound, and I get into shutting down mode again.
My problem always seems to just let go of the spying and snooping. No matter how many times I swore to stop doing it, I see her do something that doesn’t add up (like talking on her phone inside her parked car inside the garage – clearly for privacy), and so I can’t help myself but blurb something along the lines of “so you talking to OM in your car, early in the morning while I’m gone to work” (kids are home). That’s a comment that gets her all worked up again, and we begin a new vicious cycle.
I mean, it’s been 3 years. Could it be that her occasional outing to meet him are nothing more than just a drink? 3 year affair without her finally coming clean about it, wanting to move on from me? 3 years without it dying? Doesn’t this whole thing sounds like friendly/platonic relationship? I’m ok, as long as it doesn’t get physical in any shape or form. She’s allowed to meet, see, talk to, and chat with whoever she wants, so long as it doesn’t turn sexual.
Last edited by Matrix5; 09/07/1804:16 PM.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Also, going dark is not an option for me. My wife is an extrovert. I'm an introvert. She claims that one of my minuses is that we never talk. I've always been a man of few words, whereas she's a person who loves to talk. If I go dark on her, she takes it as if something is wrong. Regardless of the facade I put up on my face. The moment I start ignoring her verbally, she senses something is wrong, that I don't want to talk to her, and that just pisses her off even more.
One of the rules was to be a man of few words. Let her do the talking. In my case however, that won't work. If I want to fix my marriage, I need to show not only happiness and content, but also the ability to converse with her.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
She is manipulating you. They are both cake eating big time getting the security from their marriages and the excitement from the affair.
Us vets know the signs we have read these stories hundreds of times. Most people are in denial when they get here because they just can't believe their spouse could ever do such a thing to them.
You need to try to take your focus of your W and place it on you and your kids. Dig down deep and decide if an affair is a deal breaker for you.
Be aware that most likely things have to get a lot worse before they can get better. Just prepare yourself for the long haul because I don't think things are going to change anytime soon.
She is manipulating you. They are both cake eating big time getting the security from their marriages and the excitement from the affair.
Us vets know the signs we have read these stories hundreds of times. Most people are in denial when they get here because they just can't believe their spouse could ever do such a thing to them.
You need to try to take your focus of your W and place it on you and your kids. Dig down deep and decide if an affair is a deal breaker for you.
Be aware that most likely things have to get a lot worse before they can get better. Just prepare yourself for the long haul because I don't think things are going to change anytime soon.
Isn't 3 years long enough for an affair to have played out? I mean at this point, can't it be just a friendship that will last years?
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
One thing I didn't mention was the charterer and the nature of OM. We have been sitting 3ft apart from each other for the last 10 years. I consider him more than a co-worker. He's a friend of mine. From a charterer standpoint, if he were a dog, I'd describe him as a half chiawawa for his nervousness and paranoia with regards to certain things, and half golden retriever, for his fun, laughing, loving, and goofy character - which is something I think my wife is attracted (I'm more of an introvert as mentioned in the OP). Yet, that's a guy that freaks out whenever W tells him I know they have been talking, afraid he'd lose his job and/or his family over this A.
Meanwhile he sits right next to me, and every time he picks up his cellphone to answer a text, I can't help but wonder if it's my W on the other side of that conversation. It would have been easier had he been in a different department or different part of the building. But the guys sits right next to me, and to make matter worse, we report to the same boss. If the A was to ever be validated and exploded, I would not be able to sit next to the guy. What do I do then? Let my personal life get into my professional life? Quick my job over this? I like what I do, I get paid well, and have been with this company a lot longer than he has.
I feel like turning around to him and ask him point blank: Are you screwing my W?!?! But I know nothing good will come out of such question.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Yet, that's a guy that freaks out whenever W tells him I know they have been talking, afraid he'd lose his job and/or his family over this A.
You don't see that as a sign of guilt? Look man I would love to be wrong but where there is smoke there is fire. Way too many things point to that direction.
I have no problem looking him in the eye man to man and asking him. I would be able to tell by his response and body language.
Yet, that's a guy that freaks out whenever W tells him I know they have been talking, afraid he'd lose his job and/or his family over this A.
You don't see that as a sign of guilt? Look man I would love to be wrong but where there is smoke there is fire. Way too many things point to that direction.
I have no problem looking him in the eye man to man and asking him. I would be able to tell by his response and body language.
Sign of guilt? Knowing the guy's thinking: "Great, I'm just talking to his wife and I'm about to lose my job over this. I don't need this, it's not worth it" - his exact words. And yet they continue doing it, albeit I have a feeling my wife initiates most of it.
Guilt for different people means different things on different levels. As I mentioned above the guy is paranoid by nature. He has too much to lose by screwing around with the wife of the guy that sits right next to him at work. His career, his own wife and kids, etc.
I’m not saying there’s nothing there. I have no doubt they meet from time to time. Definitely talk on the phone on a fairly regularly basis, and definitely text each other. But I don’t think he’s actually sleeping with her. That would be one step too big for him to take, given what he has to lose, and whose W he’s friends with. He freaked out from the mere mentioning that I know they have been talking, forget about potential sexual relationship.
I already confronted him a couple of years ago. His response was pretty convincing. He didn’t deny chatting with her, but he swore on his kids he didn’t lay a hand on her.
Am I 1,000% sure they are not sleeping together? No. I haven’t delved deep enough to find out for a fact. I keep on bouncing between GAL and snooping around. I feel that I do well for a while GALing and doing 180, but when I confront her about some circumstantial evidence, all she does is spit fire back at me, get defensive, and blames the failure of this marriage on me, for suffocating her and not giving her space. So at this point it all comes down to 1 of 2 options:
1. Continue GAL and 180, and REALLY let it all go, and let it play out however it plays out (though I must be candid: after 3 years I’m starting to lose my patience, even though I’ve only been GALing and 180ing the last few months). 2. Go full Magnum PI on her and uncover whatever there is to uncover
The way I see things, this is how it can all play out:
1. If I go GAL and 180. She may or may not come back. 2. If I go PI mode on her, she definitely not coming back, and may not even want her back, depending on what I uncover.
So far, all I have is some circumstantial stuff and some clear cut stuff (phone logs). But I don’t have enough at the moment to call her out on anything without her calling me BS on the whole thing.
I’m leaning towards continuing with my GAL and 180. I mean honestly, I have a lot to fix about myself regardless, and if doesn’t end up saving this marriage, at least I can use my W as a guinea pig for the next R. I have to be prepared and be a better man for the next R.
Thoughts?
Last edited by Matrix5; 09/07/1807:20 PM.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Another thing I should have mentioned is that my wife has tried befriending his wife. She even took the kids and drove out to their house this summer to spend an afternoon with his wife and their kids (we were at work). I didn’t join after work, because it was a weeknight, and I didn’t want to drive out to his place, which is 45 minutes away each way without traffic. Also, because we are friends outside of work, they have invited us over to their summer house a couple of time last year. This year it didn’t happened, but my W wanted me to ask him and see if they’d have us for a long weekend (of course all I wanted to answer with was “why don’t you ask him yourself, since you two are such good friends”, but I knew I might as well shoot myself in the foot). I mean why would she put herself in such predicament? Me, him, her – one triangle, and if that’s not enough, have his wife there too…. For a full long weekend
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Your in denial my friend. Did you ever see The Godfather. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. If your so convinced it’s just a friendship then just accept it and stop bringing it up.
As for a PI, why would she ever have to know unless she was guilty? He finds nothing no one ever knows. She’s guilty it’s game over anyways.
Your in denial my friend. Did you ever see The Godfather. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. If your so convinced it’s just a friendship then just accept it and stop bringing it up.
I hear you loud and clear. The problem is that 3 years ago when this friendship started, I was outright against it, even if it was platonic and just pure friendship. Don't ask me why I was against it, I just was. That led W to go behind my back because her belief was (and still is), that this is not medieval age, and she has a right to befriend and hang out with whomever she wants, man or woman. That I don't own her, and have no right to tell her who she can and cannot hang out with. Back then I was against it. The fact that the guy was also my co-worker didn't make it any better for me, that's for sure.
However, I have made a complete 180 since, and have realized that she is right. I don't own her, she's not on a leash, and has the right to talk to and hang out with whoever she wants. The problem was, that I basically blasted her and blew up 3 years ago when she suggested that, and so she decided to go underground with it. The way she saw it was that she had to right to see whoever she wanted, but didn't want me to go apeshit on her every time she wanted to talk to him or meet with him. That led her to talk to him and meet him occasionally in secret. That in turn, once I did some sniffing around, led to believe she was having a full blown affair with him BECAUSE she was hiding it from me, and it all turned out into this vicious cycle. She hid it because she was afraid I'd blow up, and I figured she's hiding it because she's up to something, or else why hide it in the first place...
Last year, I sat her down and explained to her that I've realized that she was right, and I had no say in who she can and cannot see. I gave her my word that I will no longer care and will support whatever she wants to do (so long of course as it's nothing inappropriate). She was relieved initially, but as time went by, and as I mentioned in the OP, I kept on slipping and mentioning his name from time to time, or alluding to the fact the two are having an affair, or else, why was everything done in secret? She said she kept on doing it behind my back even after I gave her my word, because she didn't feel I was sencere in my promise - merely because I kept on mentioning him from time to time, and accusing her of screwing around with him.
Originally Posted by LH19
As for a PI, why would she ever have to know unless she was guilty? He finds nothing no one ever knows. She’s guilty it’s game over anyways.
Right, and that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid - the game over part. I figured I can always hire a PI and blow her story out (if there is one to blow). But I'm trying to save this marriage. The way I see it, hiring a PI is a nail in the coffin of this marriage (assuming she's up to something). And unfortunately due to several reasons (financial, kids, living place, etc.) a divorce is not something I want or can afford (both from a financial standpoint and because of a situation with the kids). And I don't want a divorce anyways, I'm trying to save the marriage. So given that for the time being, I'm 'stuck' in this situation, I figured why not try make things better. As it is there's plenty I need to fix about myself, regardless of whether I stay with the W, or end up living with another woman down the road. if I work on myself, GAL, and continue my 180 from the old shitty me, then I'm achieving 2 things: 1) there's a good chance she sees the new me and realizes I'm worth continued being married to, and we get this marriage back on track. 2) She moves on from me, but at least I use the time being, living with her, and using her as my guinea pig. - Sort of a simulator on how to act and behave towards a woman. The way I try to think of the whole current situation is that I'm telling myself she has moved on from me, and there's no hope to reconcile. I just use her now as my experiment for my next relationship should there be a need for one. If she sticks around and we turn this boat around, great. If she decides she has checked out, at least I'll be prepared with a better and improved version of me for the next woman.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Today while driving, she had mentioned that she had a conversation with a female friend of her who told her about all the male friends she has, and that her husband doesn't care that she hangs out with them. That he accepts it, and should he stop accepting it, he knows where the door is... When I agreed that her friend should have the right to hang out with them, so long as there's nothing funny going on, my wife shook her head and took it as an insult against her, as I was alluding again that she was up to something not kosher.
I asked her one more time to be open about it. That I promised her last year that I no longer care if she hangs out or talks to him, just be open about it. Let me know if she goes out to meet him, tell me. I asked her to give me a shot and try it out to see the response she gets from me.... time will tell, she seemed hesitant... she kept on saying that it doesn't matter because she doesn't see or talk to him anymore (lie) because I scared both of them. Of course I wanted to call her out on her lie, but I bit my tongue. Instead I said, "ok, in the case you choose to renew your friendship, I'm ok with it, just be open and forthcoming with me. She was hesitant, kept on saying they don't meet or talk anymore, and that it's hard for her to just take my word for it, because I've promised to be ok about it in the past, and yet kept on accusing her of doing different things with him behind my back.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Also, going dark is not an option for me. My wife is an extrovert. I'm an introvert. She claims that one of my minuses is that we never talk. I've always been a man of few words, whereas she's a person who loves to talk. If I go dark on her, she takes it as if something is wrong. Regardless of the facade I put up on my face. The moment I start ignoring her verbally, she senses something is wrong, that I don't want to talk to her, and that just pisses her off even more.
One of the rules was to be a man of few words. Let her do the talking. In my case however, that won't work. If I want to fix my marriage, I need to show not only happiness and content, but also the ability to converse with her.
Matrix I disagree somewhat on what you said here. I am an introvert as well and my wife is an extrovert. When I stopped pursuing and worked on GAL and I mean truly worked on it something changed inside of me. It was only when I accepted that my marriage had failed and my wife wanted a divorce that I was able to set things into motion. She was and could still be having an EA I confronted her, told her I knew and told her I have nothing more.to say on it and went on my merry way. I detached myself emotionally, I stopped snooping because let's face it what does it matter? You already know? Why keep torturing yourself? Why keep confronting? From what I read it's obvious. Now when I said I pulled back it doesn't mean I was rude or hateful or gave her any reason to ask me what's wrong, although she does from time to time, I just say "nothing" and smile and carry on. I was still respectful I still communicated but I gave her space I didn't bring things up that would create conflict. And it helped a lot she started bringing things up. I listened. I didn't turn around and start dumping. I didn't ask questions that were prying I just let things flow. And it's working for me this far. So please for your sake accept your relationship as it was is finished. You need a new relationship. You need to get to the bottom of why she's not attracted to you and change. No woman is attracted to a man who has lost confidence. Going that long without intimacy is absolutely not ok. I know its not easy but concede and accept what's happening and let her go and do it for your sake. What happens when you actually do might surprise you.
I asked her one more time to be open about it. That I promised her last year that I no longer care if she hangs out or talks to him, just be open about it. Let me know if she goes out to meet him, tell me. I asked her to give me a shot and try it out to see the response she gets from me.... time will tell, she seemed hesitant... she kept on saying that it doesn't matter because she doesn't see or talk to him anymore (lie) because I scared both of them. Of course I wanted to call her out on her lie, but I bit my tongue. Instead I said, "ok, in the case you choose to renew your friendship, I'm ok with it, just be open and forthcoming with me. She was hesitant, kept on saying they don't meet or talk anymore, and that it's hard for her to just take my word for it, because I've promised to be ok about it in the past, and yet kept on accusing her of doing different things with him behind my back.
Another thing Matrix you should stop engaging in her games. If she's lying, and you know she's lying, just say "look we both know that's not true but I don't want to talk about it" and shut it down. Go to another room and get busy. Go for a walk. Go clean the garage. When you say that and shut the door she may try persue you and continue denying it. Thats a guilt reaction. Either get away from her or change the subject. Tell her a funny story from your day. Bring up something about the kids. Engaging her in something you already know to he fact is sucking your emotional batteries dry. Trust me on that.
One last piece of advice. The OM your coworker is not your friend. You should disconnect from him completely. That will make him far more uncomfortable than you confronting him. If you can move work spots away from him ask to do so. You need to treat him like a complete stranger. Don't be mean to him. Don't be rude to him. Don't confront him. Just treat him like he's doesn't exist. Over time you will start to feel it in your heart. You may have to act for the first while but acting turns into true feeling if you do it long enough. He will probably mention it to.you wife if she says anything about it deflect it. You're your own person you have the right to choose your friends and the people you care about.
Also, going dark is not an option for me. My wife is an extrovert. I'm an introvert. She claims that one of my minuses is that we never talk. I've always been a man of few words, whereas she's a person who loves to talk. If I go dark on her, she takes it as if something is wrong. Regardless of the facade I put up on my face. The moment I start ignoring her verbally, she senses something is wrong, that I don't want to talk to her, and that just pisses her off even more.
One of the rules was to be a man of few words. Let her do the talking. In my case however, that won't work. If I want to fix my marriage, I need to show not only happiness and content, but also the ability to converse with her.
Matrix I disagree somewhat on what you said here. I am an introvert as well and my wife is an extrovert. When I stopped pursuing and worked on GAL and I mean truly worked on it something changed inside of me. It was only when I accepted that my marriage had failed and my wife wanted a divorce that I was able to set things into motion. She was and could still be having an EA I confronted her, told her I knew and told her I have nothing more.to say on it and went on my merry way. I detached myself emotionally, I stopped snooping because let's face it what does it matter? You already know? Why keep torturing yourself? Why keep confronting? From what I read it's obvious. Now when I said I pulled back it doesn't mean I was rude or hateful or gave her any reason to ask me what's wrong, although she does from time to time, I just say "nothing" and smile and carry on. I was still respectful I still communicated but I gave her space I didn't bring things up that would create conflict. And it helped a lot she started bringing things up. I listened. I didn't turn around and start dumping. I didn't ask questions that were prying I just let things flow. And it's working for me this far. So please for your sake accept your relationship as it was is finished. You need a new relationship. You need to get to the bottom of why she's not attracted to you and change. No woman is attracted to a man who has lost confidence. Going that long without intimacy is absolutely not ok. I know its not easy but concede and accept what's happening and let her go and do it for your sake. What happens when you actually do might surprise you.
Thanks Paul
What was the end result of your detachment? Where do you stand now with your wife now? Where does she stand with her OM?
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
I asked her one more time to be open about it. That I promised her last year that I no longer care if she hangs out or talks to him, just be open about it. Let me know if she goes out to meet him, tell me. I asked her to give me a shot and try it out to see the response she gets from me.... time will tell, she seemed hesitant... she kept on saying that it doesn't matter because she doesn't see or talk to him anymore (lie) because I scared both of them. Of course I wanted to call her out on her lie, but I bit my tongue. Instead I said, "ok, in the case you choose to renew your friendship, I'm ok with it, just be open and forthcoming with me. She was hesitant, kept on saying they don't meet or talk anymore, and that it's hard for her to just take my word for it, because I've promised to be ok about it in the past, and yet kept on accusing her of doing different things with him behind my back.
Another thing Matrix you should stop engaging in her games. If she's lying, and you know she's lying, just say "look we both know that's not true but I don't want to talk about it" and shut it down. Go to another room and get busy. Go for a walk. Go clean the garage. When you say that and shut the door she may try persue you and continue denying it. Thats a guilt reaction. Either get away from her or change the subject. Tell her a funny story from your day. Bring up something about the kids. Engaging her in something you already know to he fact is sucking your emotional batteries dry. Trust me on that.
I hear you. I gave both her and myself my word that I will not bring him up anymore in any shape or form. She was the one to tell me today about her female (married) friend who has male friends and her husband is OK with it, too which I simply replied with "sure, that shouldn't be a problem as long as nothing inappropriate is going on". She took it as a passive-aggressive comment directed at her. But both her and I know that she told me that story so as to show that unlike ME, other man are ok with their spouses having friends of the opposite sex. So I simply addressed that point to show that I'm ok with it as well, so long as it doesn't get sexual.
For the record, she's all for me to find friends of both sexes, not only males. She has no problem with me talking to other women or going out for drinks. She genuinely doesn't give 2 shits about stuff like that. She sees nothing wrong with it. She's very confident and have always claimed she knows her worth and if I think I can find someone better than her, then by all means, I'm free to walk away.
But to your point, yes, I have stopped bringing him up as of 2 weeks ago. I'm done obsessing over this [censored]. I have set my mind under the assumption that this marriage is over. I'm only in it it for the kids at this point and simply because I can't afford a divorce (from a financial standpoint). Going forward I will be working on bettering myself and use my wife as a mere guinea pig for my next relationship. If my GAL and 180 do the magic and resurrect this marriage, great. If not, at least I've practiced and improved relationship skills on my wife so I can be a better partner for the next woman who comes into my life.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
We are slowly solving things. She is attracted to me again sex is back on the table. As far as her EA she has brought it up and said she has no real interest in the guy. Perhaps she was getting something out of it she wasn't getting from me. Is it still going on? She said it's not. Do I know that with 100 percent certainty? I do not. I have no desire to snoop either. As far as I'm concerned he's not half the man I am. I am now secure with myself. If she did choose to divorce me for this guy I would give them 6 months tops, it would be a rebound to less, and I have a whole life waiting out there for me to live without her if that's what she chose. I love my wife and want my marriage but I can only make my own choices.
One last piece of advice. The OM your coworker is not your friend. You should disconnect from him completely. That will make him far more uncomfortable than you confronting him. If you can move work spots away from him ask to do so. You need to treat him like a complete stranger. Don't be mean to him. Don't be rude to him. Don't confront him. Just treat him like he's doesn't exist. Over time you will start to feel it in your heart. You may have to act for the first while but acting turns into true feeling if you do it long enough. He will probably mention it to.you wife if she says anything about it deflect it. You're your own person you have the right to choose your friends and the people you care about.
I wish it was that simple. Maybe it's because we sit 3 feet from each other is what makes it so difficult. Unfortunately, the nature of our job, requires us to only interact throughout the day, but to also be able to cross-cover responsibilities. Plus, if I were to "cross him out", I'll be seen as not a team member, which may jeopardize my job. Something which is absolutely out of the question. At this point in my life, I'll give up my wife before I give up this job.
I told my wife today that I will talk to him on Monday about me being ok with them talking or meeting up occasionally. Because she claims that I have "scared them away from each other". But I will also make it a point to him (in a nice calm way) that if he even thinks of doing anything dumb, it will turn out to be a very costly proposition for him (he's married +3 and needs this job just as much as I do). Of course I didn't tell her I'm going to make that subtle threat part). I'm still trying to formulate the right way to say it. I don't want to come across in a threatening, assholish way, but I do want my message to be firm and and direct, so there are no misunderstandings.
If you or anyone here have an idea on how should say, I'd appreciate it.
Thank you for all the input. Appreciated.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
I hear you. I gave both her and myself my word that I will not bring him up anymore in any shape or form. She was the one to tell me today about her female (married) friend who has male friends and her husband is OK with it, too which I simply replied with "sure, that shouldn't be a problem as long as nothing inappropriate is going on". She took it as a passive-aggressive comment directed at her. But both her and I know that she told me that story so as to show that unlike ME, other man are ok with their spouses having friends of the opposite sex. So I simply addressed that point to show that I'm ok with it as well, so long as it doesn't get sexual.
For the record, she's all for me to find friends of both sexes, not only males. She has no problem with me talking to other women or going out for drinks. She genuinely doesn't give 2 shits about stuff like that. She sees nothing wrong with it. She's very confident and have always claimed she knows her worth and if I think I can find someone better than her, then by all means, I'm free to walk away.
But to your point, yes, I have stopped bringing him up as of 2 weeks ago. I'm done obsessing over this [censored]. I have set my mind under the assumption that this marriage is over. I'm only in it it for the kids at this point and simply because I can't afford a divorce (from a financial standpoint). Going forward I will be working on bettering myself and use my wife as a mere guinea pig for my next relationship. If my GAL and 180 do the magic and resurrect this marriage, great. If not, at least I've practiced and improved relationship skills on my wife so I can be a better partner for the next woman who comes into my life.
What she said her friend told her is a bullshit rationalization. Most men don't mind male friends if it's done in groups ie co-workers going out for happy hour with a mix of people. I doubt her friend talked so ignorantly about it unless she has some sort of open marriage agreement. For a married woman to be spending time and talking daily to another man is weird and reeks of EA and maybe even PA. If it wasn't weird you would be allowed into that relationship. She wouldn't lie about it. She would talk openly about it and invite you along for the ride.
Stop telling her and promising her what you're going to do. Stop explaining it to her. She says " I think it's ok to have male friends" just say ok and go do something else. Or leave her vicinity. Stop telling her you're going to stop talking about it as long as she's honest. You are setting conditions and that's controlling and she will rebel. Actions are key. Simply stop talking about it. You don't have to tell her you are going to stop talking about it because you fail at that it breaks things down. Actions. Not words. Let he go give her free reign you can't control people. You ever seen that film no country for old men when the uncle tells Tommy Lee Jones "you can't stop what's coming, it ain't all waitin on you, that's vanity". That's the truth about things. You can't force your will on anyone.
We are slowly solving things. She is attracted to me again sex is back on the table. As far as her EA she has brought it up and said she has no real interest in the guy. Perhaps she was getting something out of it she wasn't getting from me. Is it still going on? She said it's not. Do I know that with 100 percent certainty? I do not. I have no desire to snoop either. As far as I'm concerned he's not half the man I am. I am now secure with myself. If she did choose to divorce me for this guy I would give them 6 months tops, it would be a rebound to less, and I have a whole life waiting out there for me to live without her if that's what she chose. I love my wife and want my marriage but I can only make my own choices.
Strong words my friend, amen to that, and I'll raise a toast for you!
If you don't mind me asking:
1. How old are you guys? 2. How long married? 3. Kids? 4. How did you find out about the A? Was it EA or PA? 5. How long did it last? 6. Was there anything specific that caused the A to end? Was it your GAL/180? something happened between W and OM?
Thank you very much
Last edited by Matrix5; 09/09/1801:50 AM.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Go find female friends. Take her challenge. Do it. GAL. She knows she has you where she wants you right now that's why she's saying that. Accept her challenge. I guarantee when you do it will wake her up in a hurry Matrix.
One last piece of advice. The OM your coworker is not your friend. You should disconnect from him completely. That will make him far more uncomfortable than you confronting him. If you can move work spots away from him ask to do so. You need to treat him like a complete stranger. Don't be mean to him. Don't be rude to him. Don't confront him. Just treat him like he's doesn't exist. Over time you will start to feel it in your heart. You may have to act for the first while but acting turns into true feeling if you do it long enough. He will probably mention it to.you wife if she says anything about it deflect it. You're your own person you have the right to choose your friends and the people you care about.
I wish it was that simple. Maybe it's because we sit 3 feet from each other is what makes it so difficult. Unfortunately, the nature of our job, requires us to only interact throughout the day, but to also be able to cross-cover responsibilities. Plus, if I were to "cross him out", I'll be seen as not a team member, which may jeopardize my job. Something which is absolutely out of the question. At this point in my life, I'll give up my wife before I give up this job.
I told my wife today that I will talk to him on Monday about me being ok with them talking or meeting up occasionally. Because she claims that I have "scared them away from each other". But I will also make it a point to him (in a nice calm way) that if he even thinks of doing anything dumb, it will turn out to be a very costly proposition for him (he's married +3 and needs this job just as much as I do). Of course I didn't tell her I'm going to make that subtle threat part). I'm still trying to formulate the right way to say it. I don't want to come across in a threatening, assholish way, but I do want my message to be firm and and direct, so there are no misunderstandings.
If you or anyone here have an idea on how should say, I'd appreciate it.
Thank you for all the input. Appreciated.
No one said to stop doing your job responsibly. Do your job. Communicate as needed. Keep it to the point. Be professional. But keep it to work only. I would highly advise you not to say anything to him about it being ok or bring up anything to do with your wife. You need to break this cycle it's gone on way too long Matrix.
Go find female friends. Take her challenge. Do it. GAL. She knows she has you where she wants you right now that's why she's saying that. Accept her challenge. I guarantee when you do it will wake her up in a hurry Matrix.
OK... Question is: do I tell her that I'm going to meet <insert chick's name> here? Because she claims she doesn't even care to know. Meaning that if I make plans, I don't even need to let her know whom I'm going out with.
I'm just afraid she'll use it against me should it come down to a divorce. not necessarily as the mere cause for the divorce, but more so as a justification for her own actions. "if he does it, now I can finally do it with clear conscious".
You know what I mean?
Wish you and I could meet for a beer. Sounds like we have a lot in common. I wanted to send you a private message with my phone number so we can text (if you don't mind of course), but looks like both of us are newbies here on the forum, and PMs are disabled for the time being...
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
One last piece of advice. The OM your coworker is not your friend. You should disconnect from him completely. That will make him far more uncomfortable than you confronting him. If you can move work spots away from him ask to do so. You need to treat him like a complete stranger. Don't be mean to him. Don't be rude to him. Don't confront him. Just treat him like he's doesn't exist. Over time you will start to feel it in your heart. You may have to act for the first while but acting turns into true feeling if you do it long enough. He will probably mention it to.you wife if she says anything about it deflect it. You're your own person you have the right to choose your friends and the people you care about.
I wish it was that simple. Maybe it's because we sit 3 feet from each other is what makes it so difficult. Unfortunately, the nature of our job, requires us to only interact throughout the day, but to also be able to cross-cover responsibilities. Plus, if I were to "cross him out", I'll be seen as not a team member, which may jeopardize my job. Something which is absolutely out of the question. At this point in my life, I'll give up my wife before I give up this job.
I told my wife today that I will talk to him on Monday about me being ok with them talking or meeting up occasionally. Because she claims that I have "scared them away from each other". But I will also make it a point to him (in a nice calm way) that if he even thinks of doing anything dumb, it will turn out to be a very costly proposition for him (he's married +3 and needs this job just as much as I do). Of course I didn't tell her I'm going to make that subtle threat part). I'm still trying to formulate the right way to say it. I don't want to come across in a threatening, assholish way, but I do want my message to be firm and and direct, so there are no misunderstandings.
If you or anyone here have an idea on how should say, I'd appreciate it.
Thank you for all the input. Appreciated.
No one said to stop doing your job responsibly. Do your job. Communicate as needed. Keep it to the point. Be professional. But keep it to work only. I would highly advise you not to say anything to him about it being ok or bring up anything to do with your wife. You need to break this cycle it's gone on way too long Matrix.
The problem is that dude is a funny, goofy, and very social, outgoing guy that everyone in the office loves. That's also part of the reason why my W finds him fun to be around. Meanwhile, I'm the introvert on the desk. If word comes out that something is not right between us, I'm afraid that I'll be the one who people think is the problem.
Ok, let's say I don't say a thing and minimize my interactions with him to bare minimums work related stuff only. Say, he grabs me one day and asks 'what's the matter? Is everything ok?' - what should be my answer to him?
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
You don't have to tell her anything. "Going out with a friend see you later". That's it. Be polite and respectful. She might press you. Just go. Don't let her drag into a confrontation.
As far as the coworker who cares if he's the office good guy. He's a problem in your marriage. Who cares what people think. Find your value. Find your confidence. If he asks you what's up just smile and say "nothing evreythings great". It seems you're struggling with your confidence bud. That's going to keep pushing your wife away. Are you more interested in solving you're marriage problems or worried about what people at the office think? As long as you're courteous and respectful and in good spirits no one will think anything less of you.
You don't have to tell her anything. "Going out with a friend see you later". That's it. Be polite and respectful. She might press you. Just go. Don't let her drag into a confrontation.
As far as the coworker who cares if he's the office good guy. He's a problem in your marriage. Who cares what people think. Find your value. Find your confidence. If he asks you what's up just smile and say "nothing evreythings great". It seems you're struggling with your confidence bud. That's going to keep pushing your wife away. Are you more interested in solving you're marriage problems or worried about what people at the office think? As long as you're courteous and respectful and in good spirits no one will think anything less of you.
She doesn't even care to know. She'd never ask. All I have to say is "I'm going out", and she'll genuinely smile and say "great, enjoy!" she never probed, certainly not since [censored] has gone sour between us. She's treating me like the way she wants me to treat her - free space, and freedom to hang out with whomever we choose.
As far as the OM, on one hand I want to show confidence and keep the cards close to my chest. On the other hand I feel that if I don't at least tell him that I know what the [censored] is going on, I'll be taken for a clueless, ignorant, sucker fool.
Not sure if you've read through the whole thread, but him and his wife are also friends of ours outside of work. It's not an IF question, but rather a WHEN question where we will need to get together with the kids at some point. If I refuse for such get-together the wife will get validation in the form of "see? I knew you haven't moved in from this, and think/assume I'm up to something inappropriate with him".
The fact that I know him personally, both as a friend and a co-worker complicates things for me to no end. I'm reading about all the A's people here are dealing with, and I'm so jealous of all of you who don't know the OM/OW, and never have to cross paths with them. While, here I am, having to go to work every day, sit 3ft way from him, and interact with this guy who only god knows what he does with my wife (could be nothing, could be everything). I mean, every time he picks up his phone at work to text, I wonder "is he talking to her again???" when I'm home I have to witness her sitting on her goddamn phone, texting to no end, and then at work I sit next to the guy and see him on his phone as well. It's like no matter where I am, I just can't get away from this [censored].
Last edited by Matrix5; 09/09/1803:40 AM.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Good day. Went out for a run. Came back, we went for some errands in the city. On the way back, W, out of nowhere mentioned about a conversation she had with one of her female friends in which her friend told her, her H has zero issues with her having male friends and that if he doesn't like it he is free to leave...
I said I had no issues with it either as long as nothing funny is going on (mistake in hindsight). W took it as a passive-aggressive comment directed at her and OM. To which I had to explained again that I've moved on from this bullshit and encouraged her to try me out by telling me whenever she speaks, chats, or goes out to meet him (another rookie mistake). She didn't commit to doing so, just said it didn't matter because they don't talk anymore because of me (confirmed lie). Came home prepared lunch together, had lunch with the kids, then worked together on a household budget like she asked. Watched some TV in the evening. W went to sleep shortly thereafter, while I stayed up on the DB forum to refuel my mind.
Another successful day (other than those 2 small mistakes) of detachment and giving zero fucks about her A. I'm better than that, better than her morally, and have better and more important things to do and think about than this crap - like GALing and 180ing. I don't need to lie, hide, or be doing anything inappropriate. It's her predicament and a choice she made. I'm moving on. She can choose to join the trip or simply jump off this train...
#GAL #180 #DB #DetachYourself #AnotherGoodDay
Last edited by Matrix5; 09/09/1803:55 AM.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
The old bachelor saying is that "friends" are just girls you haven't slept with yet. For as long as you've let this go on, I'd bet they slept together.
"Friends" of the opposite sex are by and large inappropriate for married people and lead to human stupidity.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Matrix you need to decide if its more important to sort out your marriage or to maintain your friendship with the guy having an A with your wife. If you don't take action this might go on for years.
Matrix you need to decide if its more important to sort out your marriage or to maintain your friendship with the guy having an A with your wife. If you don't take action this might go on for years.
I hear ya pal. Just trying to figure out how to respond should co-worker sense something is wrong. Should I let him know what's on my mind, or just keep on dismissing him? Issue at hand is that I don't want to come across as anti social when the time comes to get together with him and his wife. I can't tell my wife that I'm ok with her outings and perfectly secure and comfortable with her having friends from the opposite sex, while at the same time tell her I refuse to socialize with them (OM & his wife and kids) because I think my W and him are having an A. Something which I've tried to play down as not something I care to not acknowledge out of pure indifference.
To my W, I'm trying to come across as believing her and giving her the benefit of the doubt. But it's not something she buys for the time being (mainly because I've shown in the past that it bothered me). Not that I care anymore what she thinks on whether I belive her or not, but every time I've raised suspicion or accused her, she got defensive and accusatory, telling me that this is why this marriage doesn't work... Because there's no trust between us, and we might as well go our separate ways. The problem is, as I've mentioned above, I can't afford a divorce at this point and I care about the kids wellfare. So for now I'm stuck in this dead end and am trying DBing/180/GAL.
thoughts?
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Just called the wife from work (she’s home) just to say hi. She presumably didn’t like the ‘down’ tone I used in my ‘hi’ to her (there was nothing out of the ordinary with my tone btw), and immediately responded in a nasty tone on her own.
She clearly is upset from something I did last night. Claimed I was quiet all of last evening and seemed ‘down’. I wasn’t down, I just don’t like to be taken for a ride while knowing that she’s in touch with the OM these days. So I’m playing the detachment method. She could also be pissed about something the kids had done this morning for all I know, and just uses my tone to blame me for her 5hitty life.
The problem with her is that she’s an extrovert and expects me to always be upbeat and talkative around her, and if I’m not (I’m an introvert) she immediately reads it as something is wrong, and demands to know what it is that’s on my mind (she of course assumes that I assume she has done something not kosher with OM). Now, I understand that part of DB, is to pretend as if nothing is bothering me. And most of the time I do maintain a ‘content’ face. But yesterday, while sitting with family relatives around the table, she caught me looking at her after she had just finished texting someone. Presumably the OM, based on her facial expressions. After everyone had left, I went outside to talk to my DB vet buddy on the phone. I went outside for an hour to talk to on the phone, to vet, and discuss DB….
Going outside, and away from everyone to get privacy is something she herself done plenty of times when she needed to talk to the OM.
Me disappearing to the yard for an hour I think upset her (good!). May be even made her question who I could be talking to all of a sudden in privacy for an hour….. When I came back inside, she was upstairs, but not before she locked the kitchen door and me outside with it. When I knocked on the door, asking for someone to open, she came down from upstairs and claimed she didn’t realize I was outside (BS). I don’t know the reason… maybe because she went upstairs but wanted to know how long I spent outside, she locked me out so as having to come down, let me in, and sort of time me to see how long I was outside. Not sure, don’t care regardless.
So back to this morning, I called her, and she answers in this pissy mood tone, claiming that she’s only answering me the way I answer her. She started going about yesterday, and how I was quiet and moody following some argument we had in the morning. I didn’t argue with her yesterday, instead I told her to cut it off because I’m not going into an argument with her. And so again this morning, I told her I’m not getting into an argument with her that my fighting days are behind me. I said it would be better off if we got off the phone and try to talk a little later when we she is in a better mood. 10 minutes later she calls me back and asks me “Are you ready to talk in a normal tone with me?” I said I had a normal tone during my first phone call but you were clearly caught up in something to do with yesterday. She of course tried to spin in on my usual shitty mood and the misery I live in. I told I’m not miserable anymore, my argument days are behind me. She then changed to fake-happy tone, asking me how am I doing…. This made me giggle and she didn’t like that. Asked if that’s how I work on the marriage as I have claimed in the past. I said: Honey I don’t work on the marriage, I work on myself. I’m trying to fix everything in me that was so bad all these years according to you, and that made this marriage suck. I’m fixing myself for either you or your replacement should there be one down the road.
I find it amusing that one moment (during bad arguments) she’d tell me this marriage [censored] and doesn’t work, that it’s over, and we only have to be amicable around the kids and until the kids graduate school a few years down the road. And then the next, she’s all of a sudden concern with my demeanor, wants to know what bothers me, and asks me if that’s the way I work on the marriage…. I mean if you have checked out, why do you even care about me and my marriage-fixing techniques? That just tells me she has not checked out, just lost…. Thoughts?
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
It's ok to pretend and act sometimes it gets us through to a point where if you do it long enough you start to feel it. I'm not a professional Matrix I'm just sharing what's working for me. It's not perfect yesterday I fell back into some of my old ways in the morning and it triggered my wife and she was super mad all day and looking for a fight. Even though she was yelling at me I help my temper and listened and in the afternoon I cornered her before she left for work and asked her what's the problem. She was mad but she told me. Ok good now I know what I need to do.
It's sounds like she's adamant about having her cake and at the slightest indication of you GAL and 180 she immediately tries to pull you back in. My advice to you is try calling her less. Don't be constantly calling and asking how she is. If she calls be polite and friendly but keep the chat to a minimum especially if she's trying to pull you back in. If its about the kids it's ok be to the point and end the conversation first. "Hey I need to go I need to take this call" or "hey I'm tied up right now I have to go". Ignore some of her calls and hit ignore and send her to voice mail. Give time before calling back even an hour or two "hey I saw you called what's up" and if she's calling to manipulate you just say "sorry super busy here I need to run I will talk to you later". Keep pulling back. Free yourself. Focus on yourself focus on your kids. You are a good guy you deserve the best in your life. Detach yourself emotionally it will take time but it's liberating and she will sense it in you and may panic. Rid yourself of your fears. You can't force change in her she needs to change and this has gone on far too long. When you hit that point where you have accepted your situation and realized you are powerless to change it unless you change yourself you will feel free. Have a great day.
Reading all these posts gave me flashbacks of my situation years ago and I would agree with others here that she is cake-eating, big time. She gets to enjoy all the benefits of "family life" at home, and "romantic life" outside the home. Keeping that status quo seems to be her goal. When she's concerned about your mood, she's actually just concerned about rocking the boat of the situation she currently has.
Just think of Occam's razor -- The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. Given all the evidence (circumstantial or otherwise), It seems the simple explanation is that she's having an affair. You're jumping through hoops to rationalize this as just a friendship that she's trying to hide.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
It's ok to pretend and act sometimes it gets us through to a point where if you do it long enough you start to feel it. I'm not a professional Matrix I'm just sharing what's working for me. It's not perfect yesterday I fell back into some of my old ways in the morning and it triggered my wife and she was super mad all day and looking for a fight. Even though she was yelling at me I help my temper and listened and in the afternoon I cornered her before she left for work and asked her what's the problem. She was mad but she told me. Ok good now I know what I need to do.
I agree, but I feel that when I’m nonchalant, friendly, cordial, and amicable in my interactions with her, I enable her to continue with her nonsense. I feel like I’m being taken for a ride. OTOH If I show discontent, she starts pressing to know what’s bothering me, and asks “what have I done now?” (A related question), etc.
So while I want to show content and happiness, I’m pretty sure she reads it as “oh good, he’s happy, there are no frictions around the house, and I can continue doing what I want to do” – and that’s a problem for me. I hate being taken for a ride, and be made a fool. At the same token, if I come up with accusations yet again, or better yet, with clear cut evidence, I’m pretty sure putting the last nail in this marriage’s coffin. Yes, she’ll say that I caught her or whatever, but she’ll quickly dismiss it and say “it doesn’t matter. There’s no trust between us, and we need to go our separate ways right now.”
The problem is that:
1) I can’t afford a divorce from a financial standpoint 2) We were planning to move to a better town with better schools for the kids’ sake. So a divorce, kills that plan and the kids end up suffering.
Originally Posted by paulzee
It's sounds like she's adamant about having her cake and at the slightest indication of you GAL and 180 she immediately tries to pull you back in. My advice to you is try calling her less. Don't be constantly calling and asking how she is. If she calls be polite and friendly but keep the chat to a minimum especially if she's trying to pull you back in. If its about the kids it's ok be to the point and end the conversation first. "Hey I need to go I need to take this call" or "hey I'm tied up right now I have to go". Ignore some of her calls and hit ignore and send her to voice mail. Give time before calling back even an hour or two "hey I saw you called what's up" and if she's calling to manipulate you just say "sorry super busy here I need to run I will talk to you later". Keep pulling back. Free yourself. Focus on yourself focus on your kids. You are a good guy you deserve the best in your life. Detach yourself emotionally it will take time but it's liberating and she will sense it in you and may panic. Rid yourself of your fears. You can't force change in her she needs to change and this has gone on far too long. When you hit that point where you have accepted your situation and realized you are powerless to change it unless you change yourself you will feel free. Have a great day.
I hear ya, some good pointers, and I’ll address them in order:
1. Calling less – going dark on her she interprets that as me being upset about something (most likely with the A). Same goes for me trying to be a man of less words around the house. She comes at me “What’s the matter now?”’ 2. If she calls and I ignore her call, she’ll make this passive-aggressive comment the next time we talk “I called you”. No [censored] you called me, there’s caller ID these days. I know you called me. You telling me you called, is a passive aggressive comment, implying I was too ‘busy’ for you to answer, or didn’t want to answer at all…. I don’t know if she thinks I ignore her, or just pure curiosity as to what I may be up to that I couldn’t answer the phone. 3. It’s not really fears for me. It’s more about anger and frustration about being made a fool. When I don’t tell her that I know, but rather continue to be nice towards her, I feel as if I just enable her to continue eating her cake. And who knows, she seems so comfortable and nonchalant while eating her cake, that maybe really just having a platonic relationship, and doesn’t give a [censored] if it bother me or not, because she knows it innocent friendship. Same type of friendship she encourages me to have with women as well. She sees nothing wrong with those (cross gender friendships).
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Reading all these posts gave me flashbacks of my situation years ago and I would agree with others here that she is cake-eating, big time. She gets to enjoy all the benefits of "family life" at home, and "romantic life" outside the home. Keeping that status quo seems to be her goal. When she's concerned about your mood, she's actually just concerned about rocking the boat of the situation she currently has.
.
Perhaps, but how do you explain her adamant statements during big blowouts, such as the likes of “this marriage is beyond repair”, “we need to go our separate ways now”, “I don’t think this marriage is worth saving”, etc. I mean these are pretty big statements to make if you’re not willing to back them up. The last blowout we had, she actually suggested we get the D process going the very next morning. The only thing that stopped it in its tracks was my comeback comment: “Go find a job first, because I can’t afford paying you alimony”. Of course she took it as me thinking of her being a leach, and trying to screw me over. I simply explain that that was not my intention. That if she wants a divorce, I will sign the papers only if and when she manages to find a job, because I can’t afford it financially at the moment. So I don’t know how content she is at this very moment about this cake-family life balance you mentioned. I think she’d be glad to be out the door if we had the money to proceed.
Originally Posted by mindsin
Just think of Occam's razor -- The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. Given all the evidence (circumstantial or otherwise), It seems the simple explanation is that she's having an affair. You're jumping through hoops to rationalize this as just a friendship that she's trying to hide.
You may be right, but explanations and guesses alone will not cut it. I would need clear cut evidence. And since for the time being at least, I neither can afford a D, nor want the kids to pay the price for it, I am forced to live with the current situation. The only thing I can do is learn to adjust and shift my focus away from her. Keep on telling myself she is as good as gone for me. That she now has a life beyond me, and that’s ok. That if she wants to see other men, she is free to do so and I should be perfectly ok with it. It’s not easy but I think I can do it. The biggest obstacle believe it or not, is not dealing with her, but rather dealing with the OM at work. I don’t know how to balance being nice and cordial with not speaking to the guy who’s been sitting next to me for the last 10 years. The guy who ‘used’ to be one of my best friends. I want to get the impression that I’m upset about something to do with him, but I don’t want him to turn around and tell our mutual boss that I have turned into this prick all of a sudden.
I KNOW that he’s suspecting that something is wrong on my side and that it has something do with him, because he sees me sitting quietly the whole day, not exchanging a single word with him, yet he won’t ask what’s the matter. In the past, during periods in which he was not in touch with my W, and would see me down for whatever reason, he’d inquire very quickly with sincere concern. Now though, after the recent bout of interactions he had with my W, he’s not asking me a thing. He just ignores my moodiness and continues to act and behave as if there’s nothing wrong. I’m willing to bet a few Benjamins that my W had told him not to ask anything, afraid that I may be onto something. So he probably thinks that by ignoring me and my deafening silence towards him, it will just get wind down at some point, and I’ll return to be the old me towards him…. Let me tell you, I won’t let that happen. I don’t think I will necessarily corner him and press him to admit anything, but I won’t just drop it. He NEEDS to know that I at least know something. That I’m upset about something, and that that issue has something to do with him.
I actually kind of like it. I feel like he’s feeling panicked and keeps on having this back and forth with her, and together they try to theorize on what to do next. Between me running late a couple of nights ago on the way home from work, or chatting in the yard with ‘someone’ (thanks again for listening Mindsin) on the phone for over an hour…. Good! Let them wonder. She may be thinking I’m either onto something or working with a PI.
Last edited by Matrix5; 09/10/1807:09 PM.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
I agree, but I feel that when I’m nonchalant, friendly, cordial, and amicable in my interactions with her, I enable her to continue with her nonsense. I feel like I’m being taken for a ride. OTOH If I show discontent, she starts pressing to know what’s bothering me, and asks “what have I done now?” (A related question), etc.
So while I want to show content and happiness, I’m pretty sure she reads it as “oh good, he’s happy, there are no frictions around the house, and I can continue doing what I want to do” – and that’s a problem for me. I hate being taken for a ride, and be made a fool. At the same token, if I come up with accusations yet again, or better yet, with clear cut evidence, I’m pretty sure putting the last nail in this marriage’s coffin. Yes, she’ll say that I caught her or whatever, but she’ll quickly dismiss it and say “it doesn’t matter. There’s no trust between us, and we need to go our separate ways right now.”
The problem is that:
1) I can’t afford a divorce from a financial standpoint 2) We were planning to move to a better town with better schools for the kids’ sake. So a divorce, kills that plan and the kids end up suffering.
Matrix you are running in circles bud I hate to say it. Taken for a ride? She's been taking you for a ride for years my friend. If you keep pursuing she will continue to do what she's doing. I think if you truly disconnect you will see something entirely different from what you are expecting. I feel for you bud but I can't give you any better advice you know what you need to do.
Matrix you are running in circles bud I hate to say it. Taken for a ride? She's been taking you for a ride for years my friend. If you keep pursuing she will continue to do what she's doing. I think if you truly disconnect you will see something entirely different from what you are expecting. I feel for you bud but I can't give you any better advice you know what you need to do.
Maybe ‘taken for a ride’ is the wrong phrase to use. I don’t mean to say that when I’m home I run around her with my tail between my legs, my tongue is out, and I let her make a doormat out of me. Not even close. But when I follow the 37 rules, particularly with respect to the following 3 rules:
Originally Posted by 37 Rules
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold
I feel as though she gets the impression that I’m now Mr. nice guy, and I’m content with the status quo.
That’s what I mean when I say I feel like she’s ‘taking me for a ride’. She gets to eat her cake, while seeing me ‘content’ with the current situation. In other words, I don’t break her balls about who she talks to, and at the same time, I’m a very pleasant person that has finally ‘realized’ that it’s ok for the situation to continue as is, and have backed off of her. I feel like if don’t show discontent, she gets the idea I’m ok with her cake-eating – that’s what I mean by ‘being taken for a ride’.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Perhaps, but how do you explain her adamant statements during big blowouts, such as the likes of “this marriage is beyond repair”, “we need to go our separate ways now”, “I don’t think this marriage is worth saving”, etc. I mean these are pretty big statements to make if you’re not willing to back them up. The last blowout we had, she actually suggested we get the D process going the very next morning. The only thing that stopped it in its tracks was my comeback comment: “Go find a job first, because I can’t afford paying you alimony”. Of course she took it as me thinking of her being a leach, and trying to screw me over. I simply explain that that was not my intention. That if she wants a divorce, I will sign the papers only if and when she manages to find a job, because I can’t afford it financially at the moment. So I don’t know how content she is at this very moment about this cake-family life balance you mentioned. I think she’d be glad to be out the door if we had the money to proceed.
Alimony is granted only if it's in the divorce decree. If she takes pride in being independent (i.e. not a "leach"), then that works in your favor. If you can both agree on terms, then there's no need to even get an attorney involved. I did not seek alimony in my divorce even though I probably could have pushed for it due to my ex-wife's income being much higher than mine. The judge even double-checked with me and made me aware that if I refuse alimony, then I waive the right to request alimony indefinitely. It was never my intent to "screw over" my ex-wife and I don't want any money from her. I do just fine financially on my own. So I declined.
I cannot say for sure whether or not she is content with the situation. If I were to guess, I'd say deep down it is causing her a lot of stress. She probably wonders how long she can continue this double life of pretending to be your wife while satisfying her need for emotional (and possibly physical) intimacy with another man.
Originally Posted by Matrix5
You may be right, but explanations and guesses alone will not cut it. I would need clear cut evidence. And since for the time being at least, I neither can afford a D, nor want the kids to pay the price for it, I am forced to live with the current situation. The only thing I can do is learn to adjust and shift my focus away from her. Keep on telling myself she is as good as gone for me. That she now has a life beyond me, and that’s ok. That if she wants to see other men, she is free to do so and I should be perfectly ok with it. It’s not easy but I think I can do it. The biggest obstacle believe it or not, is not dealing with her, but rather dealing with the OM at work. I don’t know how to balance being nice and cordial with not speaking to the guy who’s been sitting next to me for the last 10 years. The guy who ‘used’ to be one of my best friends. I want to get the impression that I’m upset about something to do with him, but I don’t want him to turn around and tell our mutual boss that I have turned into this prick all of a sudden.
I don't think you're doing your kids any favors by staying in a miserable marriage. Your daughter will learn how a man is supposed to treat his wife by how dad behaves towards mom. Is your current dynamic with your wife the example you want to set? Think about it.
Even though my kids went through a divorce, they now spend time in two households where the adult couples are in a healthy loving relationship. They show zero negative psychological effects of being in a split family and are very outgoing and happy whenever I see them. I don't know, maybe I just got lucky with how things turned out. But when mom & dad are happy, the kids are happy -- even though mom and dad are with other people.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Originally Posted by ] Alimony is granted only if it's in the divorce decree. If she takes pride in being independent (i.e. not a "leach"), then that works in your favor. If you can both agree on terms, then there's no need to even get an attorney involved. I did not seek alimony in my divorce even though I probably could have pushed for it due to my ex-wife's income being much higher than mine. The judge even double-checked with me and made me aware that if I refuse alimony, then I waive the right to request alimony indefinitely. It was never my intent to "screw over" my ex-wife and I don't want any money from her. I do just fine financially on my own. So I declined.
I cannot say for sure whether or not she is content with the situation. If I were to guess, I'd say deep down it is causing her a lot of stress. She probably wonders how long she can continue this double life of pretending to be your wife while satisfying her need for emotional (and possibly physical) intimacy with another man.[/quote
She said she doesn't look to screw me should we get a divorce. But I know with her part time job, there is no way she can sustain herself and the kids on her income alone. There's no doubt I'd have to chip in as far as alimony goes.
[quote=mindsin] I don't think you're doing your kids any favors by staying in a miserable marriage. Your daughter will learn how a man is supposed to treat his wife by how dad behaves towards mom. Is your current dynamic with your wife the example you want to set? Think about it.
Even though my kids went through a divorce, they now spend time in two households where the adult couples are in a healthy loving relationship. They show zero negative psychological effects of being in a split family and are very outgoing and happy whenever I see them. I don't know, maybe I just got lucky with how things turned out. But when mom & dad are happy, the kids are happy -- even though mom and dad are with other people.
You keep on forgetting that we are trying to get out of this town and to a more expensive one for its school system. She has already declared that if we get a divorce she isn't going anywhere because there's no way she can afford anything in that new town. That we either move together for the time being and for the kids' sake, or we go our seperate ways now, but she gets to stay in our current town - something I am absolutely against. I need the kids to go to a better school system.
As far as the kids suferring from all of this. They're not, certainly not the twins. We don't really argue on a regular basis, and if there one, we make sure it is not done around the kids. The kids only see the 'good' stuff behind us. It's not easy, but we try - for their sake.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
I called her from work for the usual “hi, how are you” morning call… She was upset with my tone (which was no different than any other day), and claimed she was tired of my miserable tone. I said she was just upset about an argument we had the day prior (money related). We ended the call on a bad note. When I came home, I tried talk to her to get to the bottom of what was bothering her. That didn’t go well, and I ended up spilling the beans on everything that I knew and found out. She of course tried denying everything in a dismissive way, but that’s what liars do when they can’t come with a valid answer.
I told her I was sick and tired of her lying. That at this point in our marriage the only thing I’m concerned with is working on myself, but will not allow her to do any nonsense on the side while we’re married. I said I have no problem with her talking or seeing my co-worker for drinks and chatting, but she has to be open about it. I told her lying have achieved nothing but put my imagination into overdrive, and in turn caused me to snoop around in anticipation of the worst. I tried pressing her to the corner by making sexual accusation to see if she breaks and tells me something I don’t know, but she was appalled by those, saying she was disgusted by me for even insinuating she would do anything like that. There was a clear difference in her answers and tone between denying the birthday gifts, texts, and meetings, and denying the sexual accusations. To the former, she just kept on dismissing me with “Get the F out of here” and other non-sensible dismissive answers that a liar tells when they know they got caught red handed. But when I started making accusations of her sleeping with him, she turned really pissed, appalled, and disgusted by that I would have suggest something like that. I said her own behavior was disgusting, and that if she doesn’t come clean, I’m done, and left the house to talk to a friend about all of this.
Confronting her and spilling the beans was not something I planned on doing, but I got cornered with her accusations and complaints about me, and just spilled everything about what I had found out in recent days, and have been holding in for too long now. I just couldn’t hold it in anymore. I felt that me GAL and doing 180 for months now, was either going unnoticed or ignored, while she was getting to have her cake on the side. I finally reached breakpoint, and realized that if I don’t put her on the spot and put an ultimatum, I will lose my mind.
AS mentioned above, I left the house for a couple of hours to talk to a former, fellow DBer who happens to be a good friend of mine. While talking on the phone with him, I realized that for the first time in many months I felt relieved. Relieved that she now knows that my patience has run out. That if things don’t change, I’m willing to walk away for good. I came home 2 hours later and she was already asleep thank god, because I was not in the mood to continue arguing.
Tuesday 9/11
After spending the night in the guest bedroom (to show her how disturbed I was with her behavior), I left for the gym at 5am. At 7am, as I arrived at work, she called and asked me in a reconcilable tone to come home so we can talk about the R and see how we can fix things. Mind you, that was a very different tone, than the accusatory and resistant tone she had used the night before. Where Monday night she claimed she had nothing to fix in this marriage because she had done nothing wrong, now she wanted in on the repair work… I left work to deal with that. When I got home we hashed things out more, during which I explained that I refuse to be taken for a ride, ignored, and or have my efforts go unnoticed. She was in tears, said she was looking for love, and wasn’t sure if she can find it with me or anyone for that matter at this point in life (I’ve suspected she going through a MLC for a while, could be that too).
I said I’m willing to give her all the love she deserves, but I refuse to be lied to, ignored, and taken for granted. I also told her she deserves to be happy, and if she believes I cannot make her happy, that I fully support us going our separate ways. I said I’m whole and ok with either decision we make. I’m willing to change, and put effort, and give her the love she deserves, but if she doesn’t want it, or not willing to be transparent, open, and honest with me with regards to her social life, I’m walking out. Left it at that and went downstairs to have breakfast.
Half hour later she came down, in tears, said she wants to work on the marriage. That’s a complete different tone than what she had from the previous night in which she claimed she had no part or responsibility in fixing this marriage, that she had done nothing wrong, that I’ve wronged her for 13 years (I have), and it’s all my responsibility. Now it seemed as though she was fully aware of the way in which her secrecy caused me to pretty much lose my mind and sabotage my efforts in trying to repair this marriage (through working on myself). I said that I’m going to work on myself, and make improvements FOR myself. She has the choice to either stick around and reap the benefits, or decide I’m not good enough for her. Regardless, I said, I will be improving myself for either you, OR your replacement, should one come down the road. I told her she sounded very conflicted in her tone, and should take time (days if needed) to think about her decision, that I’m not rushing her into anything, or forcing her to stick around if she doesn’t feel right about it.
She calmed down a bit, had her own breakfast, and then went upstairs. I was exhausted at that point from the previous sleepless night, and went upstairs to take a nap in the guest bedroom. When I woken up a few hours later, she suggested we go for a walk, which I agreed to. We hashed out everything else remaining during our walk. During which she revealed all the stuff I was accusing her of (the texts, the couple of outings, the gifts (she just felt bad he bought her a gift (they were invited to her birthday party but came empty handed), so she felt obligated to get him something as well for his birthday). I again, made it clear that I’m ok with either decision we make. I want to stay married, work on myself, and give her the love she deserves, but I will NOT be taken for a ride. The secrecy and the lies must stop. That I’m ok with her having platonic, harmless friendships, but she needs to be open and 100% transparent about. She agreed, and we decided to move on from this.
Shortly thereafter, back home, I went into the kitchen where she was making dinner for the kids, and she came and gave me a kiss on the lips. Something she hasn’t done in almost a year. I was shocked, to say the least. The rest of the evening went by nice, we sat in the kitchen and just chatted about different things.
I’m giving this one last chance. If she goes underground on me again, I’m out.
Wednesday 9/12
Decided to talk to my co-worker as well. Made it clear that I have no issues with them being friends, so long as nothing funny was going on. He immediately said that whatever friendship he had with my wife was purely superficial and revolved around stupid day to day topics (household, money, politics, etc.). Also said that his friendship with me, and our employment is 10 times more important to him than whatever he has with my wife. He offered to disengage contact with her immediately so as to not cause any further problems. I told him not to do because I’ll then get an earful from her about me intervening in her social life and ruining friendships. I told him that she is more to be blamed here because she is the one who kept everything one big secret.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Hopefully this is all now behind us. Going forward, I need to make sure I give her the best husband she deserves because I have not been one for the first 13 years, which in pushed her to check out of this marriage. My goal now is to get her to be physical and intimate with me again. I have a feeling it won’t be easy, but hopefully through successful GAL and 180, I will be able to change her view of me. Wish me good luck….
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Hopefully this is all now behind us. Going forward, I need to make sure I give her the best husband she deserves because I have not been one for the first 13 years, which in pushed her to check out of this marriage. My goal now is to get her to be physical and intimate with me again. I have a feeling it won’t be easy, but hopefully through successful GAL and 180, I will be able to change her view of me. Wish me good luck….
Please reexamine your goals. Let me try to rewrite this so that you can see what you should be focusing on:
Quote
Hopefully this is all now behind us. Going forward, I need to make sure I am the best Matrix5 I can be....FOR ME. My goal now is to start MR 2.0, since the old marriage is dead and buried. I have a feeling it won’t be easy, but hopefully through successful GAL and 180 and detachment (IE self differentiation, I will be able to live up to the goals and ideals I have for myself. By doing this the hope is that my W will take notice, and she will be physical and intimate with me again someday, and we both will have the marriage we both deserve! Wish me good luck….
Last edited by Steve85; 09/13/1805:51 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Keep DB M. You need to show a different Matrix. Don’t pursuit, detach and GAL as Steve says. And believe nothing that they say...(yes, what your W and your/her friend/EA say). You need to act with confidence and set some boundaries. Remember boundaries are about you and your environment. Get her respect.
Be patient. It takes time. You can do it M.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
As I stated to a poster earlier I have been on these boards for almost 4 years and can read these sitches very clearly. This is more then likely manipulation on her part to ease your mind so she can continue to cake eat.
Your buddy and her will most likely take this A further underground. When a woman has built a wall around her heart over the years, the wall does not come down overnight.
You seem to be willing to take the blame for your M being the way that it is right now. Can I ask you what you think you did?
Hopefully this is all now behind us. Going forward, I need to make sure I give her the best husband she deserves because I have not been one for the first 13 years, which in pushed her to check out of this marriage. My goal now is to get her to be physical and intimate with me again. I have a feeling it won’t be easy, but hopefully through successful GAL and 180, I will be able to change her view of me. Wish me good luck….
Please reexamine your goals. Let me try to rewrite this so that you can see what you should be focusing on:
Quote
Hopefully this is all now behind us. Going forward, I need to make sure I am the best Matrix5 I can be....FOR ME. My goal now is to start MR 2.0, since the old marriage is dead and buried. I have a feeling it won’t be easy, but hopefully through successful GAL and 180 and detachment (IE self differentiation, I will be able to live up to the goals and ideals I have for myself. By doing this the hope is that my W will take notice, and she will be physical and intimate with me again someday, and we both will have the marriage we both deserve! Wish me good luck….
I understand I need to GAL and do a 180. The only problem I’m having with GAL is the detachment part. She is an extrovert and likes to talk. I’m an introvert. If go quiet on her (detachment) she thinks something is wrong or something is on my mind again. I need to master the fine balance between showing that I care about her and her needs (something I didn’t do for the first 13 years of our marriage), and GAL. That will take some practice.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Keep DB M. You need to show a different Matrix. Don’t pursuit, detach and GAL as Steve says. And believe nothing that they say...(yes, what your W and your/her friend/EA say). You need to act with confidence and set some boundaries. Remember boundaries are about you and your environment. Get her respect.
Be patient. It takes time. You can do it M.
Thank you for the encouraging words. Again, my biggest challenge right now is tending to my wife’s needs, learning to listen, pay attention, compliment her, be supportive, etc. – all the things I neglected for the first 13 years of our marriage. What makes things complicated for me is how to achieve all of those while showing detachment. If I detach, she thinks something is wrong. She wants us to talk more, she likes to converse, she wants to feel like she has someone to talk to. If I go dark emotionally on her, she thinks something is wrong. That’s also part of the reason why she felt the need to have someone else to talk to in the first place. I was a shitty listener for 13 years, mocked her and her sense of humor, her wants, dreams, etc. I was a pretty big [censored].
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Hopefully this is all now behind us. Going forward, I need to make sure I give her the best husband she deserves because I have not been one for the first 13 years, which in pushed her to check out of this marriage. My goal now is to get her to be physical and intimate with me again. I have a feeling it won’t be easy, but hopefully through successful GAL and 180, I will be able to change her view of me. Wish me good luck….
Please reexamine your goals. Let me try to rewrite this so that you can see what you should be focusing on:
Quote
Hopefully this is all now behind us. Going forward, I need to make sure I am the best Matrix5 I can be....FOR ME. My goal now is to start MR 2.0, since the old marriage is dead and buried. I have a feeling it won’t be easy, but hopefully through successful GAL and 180 and detachment (IE self differentiation, I will be able to live up to the goals and ideals I have for myself. By doing this the hope is that my W will take notice, and she will be physical and intimate with me again someday, and we both will have the marriage we both deserve! Wish me good luck….
I understand I need to GAL and do a 180. The only problem I’m having with GAL is the detachment part. She is an extrovert and likes to talk. I’m an introvert. If go quiet on her (detachment) she thinks something is wrong or something is on my mind again. I need to master the fine balance between showing that I care about her and her needs (something I didn’t do for the first 13 years of our marriage), and GAL. That will take some practice.
Listen and validate. She'll love it!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Today I will commit myself to detachment. I will allow myself and those around me the freedom to be as they are. I will not rigidly impose my idea of how things should be. I will not force solutions on problems, thereby creating new problems. I will participate in everything with detached involvement.
Today I will factor in uncertainty as an essential ingredient of my experience. In my willingness to accept uncertainty, solutions will spontaneously emerge out of the problem, out of the confusion, disorder, and chaos. The more uncertain things seem to be, the more secure I will feel, because uncertainty is my path to freedom. Through the wisdom of uncertainty, I will find my security.
I will step into the field of all possibilities and anticipate the excitement that can occur when I remain open to infinity of choices. When I step into the field of all possibilities, I will experience all the fun, adventure, magic, and mystery of life.
As I stated to a poster earlier I have been on these boards for almost 4 years and can read these sitches very clearly. This is more then likely manipulation on her part to ease your mind so she can continue to cake eat.
My wife is a very social animal. She likes to have a lot of friends, especially those who like to talk as much as she does. He is like that. One big funny, talkative goofball. I spoke to him (as mentioned above), and he offered to disconnect contact with her immediately, as it is unmaterialistic to him compared to his friendship with me, our careers, and his family life. He said he is happily married, and doesn’t need any issues in his own life. I actually had to talk him out of it, because I didn’t want my wife to feel as though I’m sabotaging her social life. There’s nothing wrong if they chat on BS stuff like household issues, kids, money, politics, or just joke around. I honestly don’t care. I USED to care 3 years ago, and that’s the reason she went underground – she didn’t want to me to get pissed off, while she still believed she had the right to speak to whoever she wants. It took me a couple of years to grow a pair of balls, and realize this is not N.Korea, she’s not a dog on a leash, and I can’t tell her who she can and cannot talk to, and be friends with. It’s the chicken or the egg issue – I used to not like it, she went underground, I started snooping and suspecting, I found out, then blew out, and she went further underground.
I needed to make myself clear that unlike in the beginning, I now had zero issue with that friendship, I do have an issue with the underground part. I also made myself VERY CLEAR that if she goes underground on me again, I’m out. She promised to be open going forward. Time will tell. At the end of the day, if this marriage falls apart because she had gone underground again, I had nothing to do with it, and can walk away with a clean conscious.[/quote]
Originally Posted by LH19
Your buddy and her will most likely take this A further underground. When a woman has built a wall around her heart over the years, the wall does not come down overnight.
The problem with him is that he is too friendly and a nice guy to tell my wife to take a hike. And if they do go underground again for whatever reason, even if there’s nothing funny going on, I walk away. Simple as that. I made it very clear to her. I will not tolerate lack of transparency.
Originally Posted by LH19
You seem to be willing to take the blame for your M being the way that it is right now. Can I ask you what you think you did?
I really hope I am wrong but tread very lightly.
Just to name a few, in no particular order:
1) Never met her affection needs 2) Wasn’t a good listener 3) Rarely complimented her (if at all) 4) Made fun of her 5) Put my family above her 6) Let my sister get physical with her, and didn’t really do anything about it (other than telling my sister she can’t do that, which was obviously not enough) 7) Raise my voice at her 8) Talk down to her 9) Anger issues
In short, an [censored]….
I have spent the last year doing a 180, but she seems to have lost interest in me, although she says she has noticed the changes. I just need to be patient. I know that even though I’ve wronged her for 13 years, I am a new man now. If she feels that my efforts are too little, too late, just let me know now, so I don’t have to waste my time and efforts in vein on her. Someone else will benefit from the new me.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
You need to detach. Read again LH last post. Doing your list puts pressure on your W. It is counter intuitive I know but what have you got after doing your 180? More distance...
Again, read what Cadet posted when you came here. You need to detach, GAL and become amoafwl. Of course it all takes time, so take your time and, as Cadet said, use it wisely.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Matrix, great advice from Steve, Neffer and LH19. You're at a critical junction, stick to your DB'ing for now and don't believe anything coming out of her mouth. She has to show you commitment through actions. Be receptive but cautious. Expect her to waffle between pursuing and pushing you away for quite a while. If after a couple of weeks she still seems receptive to recon, then look into MC and Retrouvaille. Good luck!
