Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster… sorry, this will be a little long, but my marital issues span 3 years…
A little background: Me 41, wife 40, 3 kids (10, 8, 8). Together 22 years, married 12. We were our each other’s first partner, and had a long distance relationship early on (living in 2 different counties), even though we’ve known each other all of our lives (our parents are friends), and she is originally from the same country as me until her family moved to the States when she was 10. I moved here following her 12 years later. Been living together since 2000.
Our marriage was never ‘awesome’. We used to fight and argue over small things, and we attribute this to our immature/young age at which we moved in together and married. On top of that, for 13 years, I have been less than ideal husband. Didn’t do anything stupid, never cheated, never abused her in any shape or form, but I had these negatives about me that did not make me husband of the year to say to least. I used to have an anger problem (I never hit here, but I did raise my voice and yell whenever we argued), was emotionally distant, not really affectionate, sour face, and in short – was not there for her emotionally, even though she put herself first for me all those years.
2015
In 2015, there was a huge blowout between my wife and my sister, during which my sister pushed her. This took place back in our home country where my family still resides (we were there on vacation). Being the mentally handicapped husband and Mr. Nice Guy, I was not firm enough against my sister, and was not protective of my wife, as she puts it. She says that that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. This is where things started going downhill between us, and we started growing apart. In that fall of that year, for my birthday, she bought me a surprise trip to the Caribbean. She claimed she wanted to prove to me how good of a wife I had in light of that incident with my sister. She wanted to ‘open my eyes’. In order to coordinate time off for that trip without my knowledge, she engaged the help of my co-worker, was is more than just a colleague (sits right next to me at work), but a friend too. This is where things really took a turn for the worse (for me). Their trip coordination, turned into a back and forth texting over general things. She met him for sushi once (with my knowledge), I couldn’t make it to be there too. This all started in 2015. When I confronted her after feeling her texting and outings were getting a little suspicious, she became very defensive, and claimed she has the right to have male friends and that nothing funny was taking place, and refused to cut off ties with him over my resistance. She mainly denied that it was even him she was talking to and occasionally seeing. She encouraged me to get a life (literally), get more social, find friends of my own (yes females friends are ok), and just let her be; give her space, get away from her. She claimed I was ‘suffocating’ her with all my questions and inquires, and it was just pushing her away further.
April 2016
I came across a text conversation she had with someone by the name of ‘Jessica’. I didn’t get a chance to catch ‘Jessica’s phone number, before she caught me going through phone. She grabbed the phone in anger, ran into the bathroom and deleted that whole conversation with ‘Jessica’, not before I’m sure letting her know that I’m on to them. She came out of the bathroom apologizing and trying to hug me, telling me she made a mistake. I was in tears, I was shattered, and that was just based on her talking to someone in somewhat inappropriate and confidential way. Didn’t even occur to me it was a man behind that alias.
June 2016
Found out that ‘Jessica’ was actually my co-worker (duh…. Stupid me), after gaining access to her iCloud ID. I tried to hide my discovery, but I guess the color on my face (or lack thereof) gave it way and she pressed to know what’s the matter. When I told her I know it was my co-worker she was talking to, she denied, blaming it on some stupid Apple glitch. I have a tech background, and know fully well, that was a BS excuse. Things escalated very quickly, and we decided that a divorce would be the best way, as we both appear to have grown apart in recent years, and especially after what happened in 2015 with my sister. I must mentioned that later on in the year, I did take fully responsibility for not taking a harsher stance against my sister, and not putting my wife ahead of her (more on that in a moment).
September 2016
While on a trip back to our homeland (just me), things blew up over chat (She demanded I cut ties with my sister). I did that to prove I have changed and that my W is my number 1 priority going forward. I also promised to work on myself and be the best version of myself I can possibly be. Fix all the things that sucked about me as a husband. We reconciled over chat, and by the time I returned back to the States, she couldn’t help but not keep her hands off of me. We made love (she initiated) the moment I walked in through the door from the airport. Things were ok for a few weeks, until I slipped, made some stupid comment about her sister, and the whole wound got reopened – my fault I take full responsibility.
Feb 2017
We had sex once, out of the blue, she initiated. First time since the previous summer when I got back from that trip. Feb. 2017 was also the last time we had sex since…. That’s 19 months now of sexless marriage, and counting… She claims she just lost her sex drive… (don’t know if it’s the truth or she gets her needs met somewhere else….)
September 2016 – July 2017
She continued to go out with friends. Some I’m sure were with girlfriends, other occasions I have reasons (based on discoveries I made) were with him. Meanwhile a divorced friend referred me to Michele’s DB book. I read it, along with other self-development books. I used that time to do a lot of growing internally, and realized that no matter how much I fret, complain, and accuse, I can’t: 1) control who she talks and sees 2) I have no right to tell her what to do (this is not N. Korea), and 3) worrying over her whereabouts and who she talks to only drives me crazier and does nothing to improve my own self being.
July 2017
After catching her on the phone with him, I sat her down and explained that I have done a lot of thinking, soul searching, and have realized that I can be a secured husband, that doesn’t and shouldn’t worry about what she’s up to. She again adamantly denied she was up to anything and wasn’t talking to him, nor seeing him. When I told her I eavesdropped on her conversations and that I KNEW she was talking to him based on the content of the conversation, she finally admitted. I told her that I was ok with her talking to him as much as she wants (as long as it’s platonic friendship of course), and all I ask was for her to be honest and forthcoming with me. I explained I have grown internally, was secure, and was ok with her talking to him, all I was asking was honesty. She finally broke down, and admitted that she has been indeed talking and chatting with him, but she only did in secret because she was afraid I was going to blow a gasket (based on comments I made back in 2015-16 during which I made it clear I was against them talking).
July 2017-Summer 2018
My self-soul search continued. I developed more security and have learned to understand that I can’t and shouldn’t work myself up over things I have no control over. I used that time to GAL. Things seemed to be getting on track, very slowly, but the arguments and accusations subsided a little bit. The problem however is that from time to time, I catch myself slip and can’t help by snooping around. Some of the things I found out (chronologically starting back in 2015):
1. Her outing didn’t always make sense (timeframe, her clothing, etc.) 2. I found an ‘anniversary’ card in her nightstand with his handwriting. Appeared to be written in a joking, yet loving matter. When I confronted her she laughed and claimed it was from one of her patients (She’s a nurse). 3. Found toll charges going towards an area where my co-worker lives, even though on that evening she said she was going to her female friend who lives 5 minutes away. Left around 4pm, didn’t get back until almost midnight… Also found a charge from a sushi restaurant not too far from his place from that night. She claims she ‘treated’ her friend to sushi – something she doesn’t usually do. When I confronted my co-worker he denied anything to do with her that weekend. Claims he didn’t see her, and never touched her (when I told him I was sensing something inappropriate was going on) 4. Found her wearing an XL Nantucket men’s t-shirt. She’s never been to Nantucket, but my co-worker spent his summers growing up there. When I confronted her she said her dad gave it to her. Something I obviously could have cross-checked with her dad, but I guess she knew I wouldn’t. 5. I could be wrong on this one, but at the time, I could have sworn she’d wear more-sexy underwear whenever she went on those outing. Not sure, I could be wrong on this one, but at the time I seemed she was. 6. For her 40th birthday party, my co-worker and his family were invited. They came over with a bottle of wine. My W was upset (“who comes to a birthday party with a bottle of wine?”), but seemed more upset with his wife about it, than him (“Well, she’s a woman, I’d expect her to pick a gift, no him). 2 months later, I’m at work, and she sends me a picture of a Dyson vacuum that her girlfriend supposedly bought her – delivered by mail (according to her they promised her that a gift was coming soon). Didn’t think too much of it, until a few weeks ago, I got on her Gmail account (she forgot to log off) and found out a purchase she made at a Home Depot nearby his place, with his name as the pick-up person. She’s always been very careful with spending, and especially in recent months since she has been between jobs and unemployed. I couldn’t figure out why she would buy him a power tool out of the blue and while unemployed, and counting every penny she was spending otherwise. That’s when it occurred to me that the vacuum was a late gift from him. When I went to check the vacuum’s box, the shipping label was ripped off the box. I assume it must have had his name on it. I decided to let it go and figured she must have felt obligated to buy him something for his birthday which was in June, after he bought her something. I’m not sure why she didn’t come clean about the vacuum, but my guess is that I would have questioned the nature of their friendship had I found out he spent $400 on her. I continued to ignore it and get over it mentally, until last night…. 7. She’s in a family plan with her dad. While stopping by at her folks place last night, I got a chance to login to their cellular bill and see her usage. There were 9 total phone calls over a span of the just the last 12 days, adding up to 55 minutes. 2 of those calls were made during a time she was out of the house with her ‘girlfriends’. One phone call was made at 6:50 in the morning (his commuting time). My daughter had previously told me that “mom gets in the car early in the morning and talks on her cellphone from her car, while parked in the garage”. To me, clearly it was a window of her catching him alone on his way to work, and she did it from her car so the kids couldn’t listen. When I confronted her about those phone calls early in the morning, she claimed she was on the phone with girlfriend from Texas who had recently had a baby and wasn’t sleeping at that hour. Said she did the talking from her car because she didn’t want to wake up the kids (I’m usually out of the house around 5am for the gym). So as you can see, there’s plenty of circumstantial evidence to raise smoke…. And when someone is secretive about their affairs (no pun), even after I assured her that I’m ok with it as long as nothing funny was going on, something just doesn’t add up.
This latest phone bill discoveries proves that: 1. She IS talking to him, despite denying talking to him anymore 2. The timeline on a couple of those calls coincides with 2 evening outings she made which didn’t make sense with the timing, clothing (underdressed on one of them), etc.
To sum things up, the last 3 years have been an absolute hell. A roller-coaster if you will. The highs are that I’ve grown and matured mentally, and learned to just let go and GAL. The lows are that when I trip, and start sniffing around, I come across all sorts of things that don’t add up from time to time, and raise suspicion. She claims she finds him like a female friend. That she talks to him on everything and anything that goes on in her life, nothing sexual, just a friend. But all those things I listed above, and I’m sure I’m forgetting some, just don’t add up. This sounds more than just platonic friendship.
When we get into a heated argument, she admits she has checked out, and that we have only 10 years until our youngest graduates from high school and we can go our separate ways (can’t afford a divorce with her being unemployed). I really would like to save this marriage, but I also know now, after doing a 180 that I’ll be ok no matter what. But I DO want to try and save the marriage. When things are calm we seem to get along great (minus the lack of sex or any affection). She seems lost as far as what she wants to do. She just knows that we need to learn to spend the next 10 years amicably for the sake of the kids, and to make things livable inside the household.
I believe, that by doing 180 and GAL, I have more than enough time to reel her back to me. But the problem is that I keep on stumbling, and every time I stumble, I sniff around and find something new that just makes me want to hire a PI and call her out on all her BS. I hate to be made a fool. I feel that by GAL, while helping myself, I also feel that I let her make a fool out of me. As far as my co-worker is concerned, he is the last person I’d ever imagine doing anything like that. A good, honest, family guy (3 kids of his own), friend, and a very paranoid person at it. Every time I got into an accusation session and she would tell him about it, he always freaks out, afraid he’ll lose his own family and job because of what I may do.
So what do I do? Continue with my 180 and GAL and let her keep on living this apparent nonsense, or call her out?
Thank you in advance for reading, listening, and advising.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you Cadet. I have read the DR book twice. and have been doing a 180/GAL for over a year now. Just not sure where to go with her, given that her sideshow is still live and kicking. Let it go and hope it either dies or just a platonic, friendly relationship (been 3 years now), or go full bore and dig stuff up to validate?
After 3 years, I would like to believe that either would have blown up in my face by now (confession or me finding something really incriminating), or it would have died. Neither has happened, which makes me believe (or at least that what I'd like to believe) that it's just an innocent friendship with some dirty humor mixed in, which I'm totally misinterpreting.
Then there is the lack of closeness. No sex and touch in 17 months is taking a mental toll on me. I'd love to know if she's not interested because she feels disconnected from me, or because she's getting her needs met somewhere else....
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Welcome to the board you are in great hands right now with experienced people who will give you advice. Three years is a long time to be living in a stressful situation.
The good news is there is a saying here "you have been giving the gift of time" and it sounds like you have a really long time (10 years) to turn this around.
The bad news is your wife is having an affair with your co-worker and is cake eating like there is no tomorrow. Make no mistake about it she is having an affair.
If you knew for sure and had 100% concrete evidence would it change anything for you? Is it a deal breaker? If it is not stop confronting her about it.
You can't make her stop, you can't control her the only person you can control is yourself. Focus on self improvement, exercise, eat right, learn new things, take up a hobby and completely take the focus off of her and the affair.
Read up on boundaries and comeback and post some boundaries you may want to set. Don't do or say anything to your wife until you post them here first.
You found a good place to Vent and get some advice and 2×4 we tell you the truth. So here is my thoughts
I was never the one to confront OW to me it wasn't worth it. I expected W wanted to fight for her. Not... I was like you I have grown mentally and I know my worth. I know I am a dam good W and mom.
So this is your coworker right. Many would say contact OM wife. Call him out on his crap. But many will also say No let her do her thing and GAL
So only you know what's right.
But most importantly you must protect your fiance. Your W not working take W name off Credit card. You don't have to even tell your W. I didn't tell my W my credit cards W was just an authorize user, W monster on how embarrassing it was getting things in store and when W went to pay it was declined. Yelp declined. My thoughts where hey you acting single you say we are not a couple so this is what couples do.
Trust me true colors and monsters will come out. MlC or WAW like to spend on OW or OM.
So keep doing you keep protecting your kids and your finances please Handle that.
And again if you feel is right to contact Wife of OM then do it you have the proof.
You seem like a nice guy. Is time to not be Mr nice for now...
Remember lots of rest, eat well, take care of yourself so you can be even a better version of yourself.
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
The bad news is your wife is having an affair with your co-worker and is cake eating like there is no tomorrow. Make no mistake about it she is having an affair.
If you knew for sure and had 100% concrete evidence would it change anything for you? Is it a deal breaker? If it is not stop confronting her about it.
I think if I came across concrete evidence that an intercourse was involved, that is something I don't think I can just move on from. That would be a big red line for me.
Originally Posted by LH19
Read up on boundaries and comeback and post some boundaries you may want to set. Don't do or say anything to your wife until you post them here first.
We are here for you. Get to work!
Will do, thank you very much
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Well the one thing you do know is she is not interested in you.
Have you read the pursuit and distance thread?
She herself does not know what she wants. During heated arguments (usually when I bring up the OM), she gets defensive with the ‘you’re suffocating me with the spying and accusations, and there’s zero trust between us’.
When I tell her I’d be interested in fixing this this marriage (without begging, just a matter of fact), and ask her if that’s something she feels worth fixing, she replies with “I don’t know how to fix this and I don’t know if there’s anything left to fix”. When I suggested counseling she said she is not paying a pro to tell her what she already knows. When I explain that a pro will give us a 3rd party, neutral POV, she negates it by saying she doesn’t care of anyone’s opinion. That only her opinion is what counts in her book.
But then, if we stay away from arguments for a 2-3 weeks, and communicate correctly with each other, and I don’t trip and come up with sort of accusation with regards to OM, she seems to be slowly opening up to me. She even said so herself…. We go well for a couple of weeks, I’m starting to open up towards you, let you my whereabouts and who I’m going out with, just for you to accuse me of doing something with the OM. That’s just reopens the wound, and I get into shutting down mode again.
My problem always seems to just let go of the spying and snooping. No matter how many times I swore to stop doing it, I see her do something that doesn’t add up (like talking on her phone inside her parked car inside the garage – clearly for privacy), and so I can’t help myself but blurb something along the lines of “so you talking to OM in your car, early in the morning while I’m gone to work” (kids are home). That’s a comment that gets her all worked up again, and we begin a new vicious cycle.
I mean, it’s been 3 years. Could it be that her occasional outing to meet him are nothing more than just a drink? 3 year affair without her finally coming clean about it, wanting to move on from me? 3 years without it dying? Doesn’t this whole thing sounds like friendly/platonic relationship? I’m ok, as long as it doesn’t get physical in any shape or form. She’s allowed to meet, see, talk to, and chat with whoever she wants, so long as it doesn’t turn sexual.
Last edited by Matrix5; 09/07/1804:16 PM.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
Also, going dark is not an option for me. My wife is an extrovert. I'm an introvert. She claims that one of my minuses is that we never talk. I've always been a man of few words, whereas she's a person who loves to talk. If I go dark on her, she takes it as if something is wrong. Regardless of the facade I put up on my face. The moment I start ignoring her verbally, she senses something is wrong, that I don't want to talk to her, and that just pisses her off even more.
One of the rules was to be a man of few words. Let her do the talking. In my case however, that won't work. If I want to fix my marriage, I need to show not only happiness and content, but also the ability to converse with her.
M (LBS): 41, W (WAS) : 40 M: 16Y, T: 22Y Kids: 11, 9, 9 A: since 2015 DB: since July 2017
