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#2810326 09/02/18 10:33 PM
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Link to part 3: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2810319&page=1

Suddenly, I feel exhausted. Steve, I'm still trying to do this the best I can. I hope it's still going as well as it seems to be, although I really don't know. Just trying to be as consistent as I can, and definitely standing my ground in words and actions, validating what she says, and trying to make good efforts.

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"I'm going forward either way". I love it!


Together:20 years
M:3 years
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WW:40
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AC:5/18
BD:8/18
WW in full blown R w/ OM
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Great.

Went to visit a friend this morning and have coffee.

I didn't realize it was in the same neighborhood where W's boyfriend lived.

I also didn't realize that I would see her car there.

Or that I would run into him at the gas station about a half hour later.

Ugh.

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I would have flipped out on him. lol


Married: 15yrs
Ages: Me 49, W 44
Kids: S12
BD: around 4/14

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I wanted to. But I'm not going to start a fight.

He messaged her and told her that I was following him. She called me. I told her that no, I wasn't, and I explained what I was doing. Of course, I saw him again the next town over, and he was driving away from her place. I was going towards mine (we don't really live all that far away from each other).

But yeah. The urge to say something to him at the gas station was strong. I just walked past him and said nothing. But he did notice that I was looking at him hard. I went into the store, bought what I was there to buy, and then drove into another parking lot and sat there until he stopped watching me.

I definitely don't want to start more trouble. But I can honestly say that I wanted to. Badly. But I'm not going to go that route. I'm just going to leave it alone.

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As tough as it is to fight off the urge its not worth the trouble. Believe me, i know its tough. I love freedom and being woth my S too much. Good job on you for fighting that urge off.


Together:20 years
M:3 years
Me:40
WW:40
S15
A suspected:5/17
AC:5/18
BD:8/18
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This isn't getting any easier. In fact, it's getting worse. I thought it was getting better.

She finally told me why she was crying when she called to ask me to move in. Because she had just told OM she couldn't see him anymore because she was going to move back in.

But I stuck to DB. And it had the opposite effect. And now she wants to be with him without any care to fix anything.

I know it's not over. But I feel like I lost.

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She says "I miss what we had. But that's gone, and we can't go back, and there's no future with us."

I remember that the book said this was part of it. I just can't remember what to do now. I'm lost, and I need guidance. frown

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It always gets worse before it gets better. DBing isn't about "having an effect" on your WAS. It is about having an effect on you.

When she calls and wants to move back in....and you tell her to kick rocks....THAT is DBing working. You know what, you telling her that and REALLY MEANING IT will make her want you more. Counter-intuitive.

But when she wants to move back in, and you are open to it.....then suddenly she realizes that she can come back to you ANYTIME SHE WANTS. Guess what that does, that makes her run to OM.

I say this at least once a week if not more. If you are DBing to get her to change you will fail every time. If you are DBing to be able to move on with or without her, then you will always succeed. Note success here isn't that she comes back, but that you move on with or without her!


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Originally Posted by blakmac
She says "I miss what we had. But that's gone, and we can't go back, and there's no future with us."

I remember that the book said this was part of it. I just can't remember what to do now. I'm lost, and I need guidance. frown


What to do now is what you have been doing. Detach. GAL, 180. Be the best bm you can be. In other words, don't change anything.

You are in a very important spot bm. The WAW/WW has shown signs of wanting to R. Likely you got to eager to let her. Being eager to let her come back is the same a pursuit....and will usually send the WAW/WW running the other direction. Being unattainable has a better impact...but you have to mean it. Kind of like when you said "I am going forward either way." However, you have to SHOW that too. Seeing OM at the gas station and not even looking at him......that makes a bigger statement than staring him down. What was the purpose of going to the other parking lot?! It seems like you WERE following him. Even if you weren't, I would have got that impression if I were him.

Note even acknowledging if he was there was the way to DB....not staring him down.


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Hey blakmac, Steve is on the spot here! It’s about the feeling of loss. Greener grasses are far out into the horizon. You are not plan B. W’s loosing control. Just reinforce DB.

You know DB is for you. You are getting stronger.


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S: 18
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I know. Thank you.

I have to keep trying. Also, have to try not to fall apart at work. Heh.

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I picked S up after work today. W will be picking him up later. I'm going to do my best to be ok. But to be honest, I feel like this is going to be a difficult day.

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Just take a few deep breaths. You're going to be fine. Don't let her see any hint of weakness. I've read your sitch. You're doing way better than you think. My WW won't even talk to me, in fact she avoids me when I'm trying to avoid her. Just remember, silence can be louder than words. Don't set yourself back. Let it ride for a while. Be strong bm.


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Thank you. I really hope that I'm doing better than I think, because I feel like I'm in the depths of invading Normandy if Normandy were Hell.

She picked S up this evening. He wanted to stay, so she asked if they could stay for 5 minutes. I said that was fine. We all got on the floor, he and I played with his cars a bit. He was asking about how he got his name, so I told him about us picking it. He asked how he got into mommy's tummy. lol.

Well, anyway, they had to go, so I walked down and helped him buckle up. She got in the car. He said "daddy, are you gonna be sad because you're alone?" I said "Yes, but I'll be happy again when I see you next." He gave me a hug, and I said told him to be good, say hi to his friends for me, and give mommy lots of hugs. I waved politely as W drove away. She waved back.

After they left, I came upstairs and just exploded. I totally broke down in private. My strength and confidence wasn't anywhere near flawless. Far from it. But I did the best I could. And it went more smoothly than I had imagined it would. I was sure after yesterday she'd never talk to me again. Even more so about the fight today.

I don't believe I'm doing this well at all. But I trust you guys when you say I'm doing better than I think. I really, really hope I am.

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bm, you allowed her to suck you back in with the attention. Likely was her tactic. So just go back go NC. To GAL. To detaching.

You've got this.


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Thank you, Steve. That's what I'm going to do. Honestly, I need the space anyway.

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Originally Posted by blakmac
This isn't getting any easier. In fact, it's getting worse. I thought it was getting better.


You're only a few months in, it's far too soon to expect things to get better. Too many people come here wanting to know a trick or two to "put things back to normal" but that is not how this works. There are no magic tricks. You've got to spend long months (a year or more is really not unusual) laying the proper groundwork for a possible future recon. While you're laying the groundwork the trainwreck that is your W is going to continue to run off the rails. You have to stick to your game plan and let her flounder around trying to find her moral compass.

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But I stuck to DB. And it had the opposite effect. And now she wants to be with him without any care to fix anything.


DB'ing did not drive your W into OM's arms. Right now she wants to use any excuse she can to go back to OM. You're too cold and distant. Or you're too doting and smothering her. Or your socks smell. NOTHING you do right now is good enough for her. That's why you DB, because right this second you CAN'T make her happy. She's not wired for that. You have to find yourself and do your thing while she sorts her crap out.

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I know it's not over. But I feel like I lost.


You've got to drop your expectations that things will turn around in a few weeks or even months. You've got to take a long-term view. The fastest turnarounds I've seen here were in the 6-8 month range, but those were exceptionally short timeframes and unusual. Most take more like 18 months to 2 years. Just about every WAS says the stuff yours is saying early on. It's far too soon to know what the prospects for recon are.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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She finally told me why she was crying when she called to ask me to move in. Because she had just told OM she couldn't see him anymore because she was going to move back in.


Don't believe anything she says! That sounds totally WW bs to my ears.

You remind me so much of another poster and his WW. You don't or can't see how manipulative she is. She sets you up by throwing a few crumbs and then when you are let down, you blame it on DBing having opposite effects.

Here is the link to his first thread, if you want to read it. Perhaps you can see his W the way we could see her. I don't really know if he ever did. She worked him right up till they met in court.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=60803&Number=2757467#Post2757467


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Welp, everyone...I have no idea what is gonna come of this, but I may have ruined the entire thing.

The good news: I know who the mole is on my fb.

The bad news...well...I'm a total idiot.

After the whole "new bf thinks I'm following him" thing...I found him on fb and sent him a message. It said basically "Look, I want you to understand that I'm not looking to cause you any trouble. I'm not okay with what's going on, but that's not my call. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not going to be a problem." < not exact quote, but close

No reply. I didn't expect one.

Something felt off about the whole thing. Suddenly this dude is spending time with S, he's staying at his house overnight...and W didn't know him all that well.

I'm a dad before anything else. So I started researching the dude. Nothing wild, just some public records...just to make sure he wasn't a psycho. Turns out he had been in jail up until about a year ago for DWI, drug possession. Also...he raises exotic venomous snakes in his apartment. Not like pet snakes, freaking cobras and stuff.

First, it's illegal (even with a permit) to have those kinds of snakes in the city we're in. Second...who really keeps freaking cobras when they have a kid of their own?

I didn't do anything to them. Although I thought really hard about reporting the snakes to the police.

Nope. Instead I vented about it on fb. Mine. She's blocked.

An hour later I get a message from OM. He said he was sorry, he understood why/how I felt, and he has decided to call it off with her. Whether I believe it or not doesn't really matter...turns out they had told S not only his real name, but also a convenient fake name that S could call him. Yeah because that's not manipulative af...lie to the kid so he wouldn't have information to talk about. Not that I ask him, he's 4, he just talks about cool stuff like snakes and riding in fast cars.

Then W texts: "please, can you stop this?"

I just replied "I only vented on my fb. You weren't supposed to be able to see that."

A phone call happened. She was pretty devastated sounding. I assured her that my intent wasn't to cause trouble or to split them up, and I agreed to take the post down.

Today I picked up S from school. When she got off work, she came to get him. I made spaghetti for him (he loved it) and sent a bunch home with him so he could have it later if he wanted it. There was enough for S and W (I know she's broke, and I know it's not my problem, but I want to make sure S is ok). She barely knocked, only cracked the door and peeked in, then I told her she could come in while I get S ready to go. She would barely even look at me. I was going to walk S to the car and help him get buckled in the car seat and say goodbye to him like I usually do, but she said "No, we're fine." I said "Ok" then got a big hug from S, and I told them to have a good evening.

She. Was. A. Wreck. Like, she just got off work supposedly, and she looked like she had been though absolute hell there. Clothes were all a mess, no makeup, messy hair (honestly kinda cute...heh), blank expression, no eye contact...just like her entire world had just been effed up.

Well, next time background check dudes before you have them around my kid.

Really, I wasn't trying to start trouble. I learned who had been sending her info all along. Honestly...I may keep them around and just stop venting about it on my own fb. Or not. It's mine, and she doesn't get to pick what I post on it.

Some friends are telling me that I pulled some crazy stuff. I literally wasn't trying to. I almost feel bad about it...except that the crippling anxiety that's been with me since seeing her car at his house...is just totally gone. I didn't plan things to happen that way...but I also don't feel bad about it at all.

Will she come back? Probably not.

Does that matter more than making sure my S is safe around strange dudes? Hell no.

Since then, I'm not contacting her at all. Only when it's necessary about S.

She'll figure this out. She thought she was doing good, but then didn't really think about what the dude was like before bringing S around him...and now everyone knows the kind of guy he was. And how she walked out on our family so she could make decisions like this.

I feel bad for embarrassing her...although I didn't choose her path. I literally just wanted to vent what I found to my friends/fam. Well, maybe she'll wake up one day.

So I'm pretty sure that is gonna be a major DB setback.

On the other hand...S comes first. If he's not safe, then her opinions don't matter to me at all. When the safety of S in in question, she can get right out of the way.


Side note: honestly I don't think they're really gonna call it off. I think it was a bluff to protect OM's reputation, and he has a S as well, so my moral compass told me that it would be best to take the post down...although I still don't really care how W feels about it. Talking to the guy was interesting. I don't buy it...but he was very polite and even kind of took my side a bit. Which is probably the red flag...but you know? It doesn't matter.


Curious to see what happens next. Although I would wager that I'm gonna be a lot better off going forward mentally. Nobody puts S in harm's way and gets a pass.

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bm, I commend your for your stance in protecting S. S is still unable to fend for himself so you as his dad need to to step up- and did. When a childs well being is at stake there is only ONE answer- Save the child. Although it may not be textbook DB -it least the priority was taken care of. Keep strong!


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bm,

I am with LW, I applaud anyone that is protecting their child. So that aspect is commendable IF your actions were pure.

However, (here comes the 2x4s), I question that last if. Were your intentions pure?

First, why the forum you chose? Why FB? And if you don't feel bad about it (you repeated that many times in your post almost as if you were trying to convince yourself as much as us) then why did you take it down?

Were your intentions all about protecting son? Or was it more about getting at her? Breaking them up? Etc?

If it were all about protecting son, why not call the police anonymously to report the illegal cobra keeping? Why make a big public splash? What were your true motivations for taking the steps that you took.

bm, you would not be the first LBS that used the well-being of their child as an excuse to throw shade at their WAS and their AP. It is a common tactic. All I am asking you to do is to be honest with yourself about all of this.

For me the telling things are that
a) you took the post down. Sorry, but if I am not sorry about something I don't reverse course on it.
b) you don't believe that it is really over, but you sent S off, potentially to be around this excon and his illegal snakes, with your STBXW. I am sorry to be blunt bm, but is that really putting your S's well-being first?
c) Interesting timing. You've known who this guy was for a while now. But it isn't until she gets a date for the D hearing (before the deadline that you were counting down daily) and then you have your "chance" meeting with OM. Then just a few days later you run background checks (again after all this time) and decide to blow the whole thing up on fb.

It sounds to me that your upset about her acting on the D before the deadline and running into OM (again, I am not sure if you are being honest with yourself about the chance nature of that) caused you to take action. We talk a lot on this board about the illusion of action. LBSs often think they have to DO something, and that's usually when they do something to sabotage themselves.

So following your sitch recently, if put 2 and 2 together, you gave up on DBing because for a few weeks she showed some positive actions, you got sucked in, you put too much weight on the D filing expiring, and then you spiraled from there.

Just one question.....what happened to running things by this forum before acting? Why be so impulsive? You realize that after D, short of your XW dating a convicted child molester, there is going to be NOTHING you can do about who she takes your S around, right? Heck, you know this guy is an excon with illegal snakes and there is nothing you can do about it, short of reporting his illegal snakes to the authorities, which you seem unwilling to do!

Okay, said my peace. Good luck bm. We often tell posters here to be careful of the actions they take because the actions often lead them to what they fear most (getting D'd) and I fear that this flurry of activity has indeed sent you down that path.

I will keep you and your sitch in my prayers.


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P.S. On the FB issue....you knew you had a mole. You knew she'd hear about it. Be honest, it was lie saying you "thought she wouldn't see it".


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However, (here comes the 2x4s)


You know...I knew they were coming. Heh.

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First, why the forum you chose? Why FB? And if you don't feel bad about it (you repeated that many times in your post almost as if you were trying to convince yourself as much as us) then why did you take it down?


Good question. The reason FB was where I chose to vent about it was because that's just about the only contact I have with my friends and family. Friends are usually too busy (I should probably make more friends, honestly). My family all lives out of state, plus talking to them about this usually makes things harder for me because of THEIR emotional response, verbal overreaction, etc. I love my family, but they aren't exactly helpful in situations like this, so I just don't go to them for advice.

I took the post down because W basically begged me to. I debated not taking it down. I could tell when she called that she was seriously hurt by it. I didn't feel bad about making the post. I didn't feel bad at all about the effect. But I did feel bad about upsetting W. And I know that's kind of weak, in a way. Does she deserve it? Absolutely. Did I think she would get angry? Didn't care. Did I expect her to be actually sad about it? No. I may be a lot of things, but I'm not someone who wants to see her sad because of an action that I made...regardless of why I took my actions, all she's going to see is the things I did...not the things that she did to get to that point. Although I hope she considers that. But I took it down because it hurt me to know that I hurt her, and I respected her request.

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Were your intentions all about protecting son? Or was it more about getting at her? Breaking them up? Etc?


My intentions did evolve a bit. At first, I just wanted to know who this dude was that was spending time with S and sleeping with W. The more I found out, the more I knew that I had to get S out of the situation. It was never about getting back at her or breaking them up. Did it cross my mind? Not particularly. By the time I decided I needed to do something, I was beyond the point of caring about anything other than ensuring S's safety.

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If it were all about protecting son, why not call the police anonymously to report the illegal cobra keeping? Why make a big public splash? What were your true motivations for taking the steps that you took.


That was my first thought, actually. There are a few factors that went into that decision.

1) To file a report, they would need more than just "this dude posts pics of his snakes on social media". Since I had not been in his house personally, they would essentially have only social media posts and the second-hand information from a 4 year old source who thinks the guy has two different names. Not exactly a solid foundation for probable cause, but a solid foundation for thinking I'm crazy.

2) The stuff I found out had to be addressed. I knew that had I just taken it directly to W, she would have given me the "he's a nice guy, he made some mistakes, he's a good person, you're just jealous, quit being creepy, it's over" talk. She wouldn't consider WHAT the information was, only where it came from. And while the OM probably does take safety precautions with his snakes, accidents happen, and I would rather her hate me forever than lose S because she put him in a dangerous situation.

3) I knew that no matter what action I took, W would be upset. Even an anonymous police report would have made her blame me for making the call. Even had it not been me, in her mind, it would have been because of me. So there wasn't any point to take an action with the intent of upsetting her, because she was going to be upset either way. She's not finished with being angry at me over the entire marriage. Adding more fuel to the fire seemed like a bad idea.

4) The "big public splash" wasn't that big or even that public. My FB privacy settings are pretty tight, and I don't publicly share my posts. That being said...my FB is restricted to people I've met in person and family. Yes, I knew that someone had sent her my posts before. Yes, I knew that (despite removing about 300 friends since this all started) they were probably still on the list, and likely family. After this post, one of her family members finally told me which person was sharing. My response was "I figured it was them. They are bad at being sneaky, lol." And yes, that person is still on my friends list.

5) The decision to make the post came at the end of the "how should I handle this" process, simply because I was frustrated. I knew that I needed to do something. Taking the info to W would have escalated the situation. Going to the police, even anonymously, would have escalated the situation. Showing up and handling it in person would have definitely escalated the situation. So, out of frustration...I gave up. I basically told myself "you need to get this off your chest, and there's no way this is going to go well, but you have to do SOMETHING."

So I made the post.

I posted to vent my frustrations, and I knew that it was likely to get back to her, but I didn't really care if she found out second hand or not. In a nutshell: "I've got this thing that's bothering me, and I'm going to talk about it, and if you happen to find out what I said, fine."

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you would not be the first LBS that used the well-being of their child as an excuse to throw shade at their WAS and their AP[\quote]

That's fair. Although this was more about getting angry about a problem, needing to fix it, and not really caring whether or not she gets dirty in the process. I didn't choose for W and OM to be together, and I didn't choose to separate them, either. That's beyond my control, and I don't want to be that guy. But if neither of them are willing to think about their actions and how that could affect S, eff 'em.

[quote]you took the post down. Sorry, but if I am not sorry about something I don't reverse course on it.


Normally I wouldn't, but I'm a sucker. She got hurt, I felt bad when I saw how sad she was. I shouldn't have felt bad.

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you don't believe that it is really over, but you sent S off, potentially to be around this excon and his illegal snakes, with your STBXW. I am sorry to be blunt bm, but is that really putting your S's well-being first?


I didn't "send him off". She came to pick him up after she got off work. It was bedtime for him. He takes meds that make him sleepy, and I had already given him that. But either way, all I know is that both W and OM told me they were done. Am I skeptical? Yes. Does that matter? Not really, because there's literally no way for me to control who she has him around other than keep him myself, which I would love to do, but I couldn't do it without help because of his school schedule and my work schedule (he starts just before noon, I have to be at work at 8, and I have no family/friends to rely on to help me with that, and we've checked into before-school care programs, but there aren't any for his age group at his school). I'm absolutely going to keep my eye on things though, now that I know. I don't think that just letting it go is a good idea, and I do intend to bring it up in court when the time comes.

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Interesting timing. You've known who this guy was for a while now. But it isn't until she gets a date for the D hearing (before the deadline that you were counting down daily) and then you have your "chance" meeting with OM. Then just a few days later you run background checks (again after all this time) and decide to blow the whole thing up on fb.


I get that. I've known his first name for a couple of weeks because S talked about him. I didn't bother to pursue information. In hindsight, I remember a month or so ago S talking about W not letting him go in his friends house because of snakes". I thought it was weird, so I had asked W what that was about. She said "(fake name) has pet snakes, I just went in to say bye while S was in the car, I wouldn't let him around them, that's dangerous." FFWD to later when S spends the night there. FFWD to S telling me about riding in the guys car. I thought it was weird that S called this guy two different names. W said it was two different people. S said it was the same dude. But I still figured that it was just S being confused about new people and names. Then the more I thought about it, the weirder it seemed. So I started looking to figure out what was up with the guy. FB search found him. Matched other social media accounts, found pics of the snakes. Thought back to a couple months ago where police found a loose cobra in town and had been looking for the owner. I figured I'd see if it could have been him, so I did some public records searches and couldn't find a permit, but I did find arrest/jail records. DWI and drug possession. At that point, I knew that W was going to just be dumb about it just so she could justify seeing him to herself.

Did the deadline have any bearing on it? Not particularly, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't bitter. I'm bitter, absolutely, but not malicious.

Running into OM at the gas station was accidental. I was in the store parking lot probably 30 minutes before he was.

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Just one question.....what happened to running things by this forum before acting? Why be so impulsive? You realize that after D, short of your XW dating a convicted child molester, there is going to be NOTHING you can do about who she takes your S around, right? Heck, you know this guy is an excon with illegal snakes and there is nothing you can do about it, short of reporting his illegal snakes to the authorities, which you seem unwilling to do!


ADHD. When I actually do focus on something, it's not always the thing I want to focus on, and it becomes very difficult to focus on something else. Focus for me is often involuntary. As is the impulsive overly emotional reactions. I do realize that there's nothing I can do after D, and I also try to realize that right now there's little I can do about it. I've already stated why I didn't make the phone call. If it persists, then I can always pick up the phone.

Morally, I have no problem with him having the snakes. I don't see it as anyone's business but his own. However, my S safety matters to me more than how I feel about W or OM, or how they feel about me.

That being said, I really hope this didn't wipe everything out. I understand it may have. But for S, that's a risk I was willing to take.

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bm, please go back and read your response. There are a lot of contradictions. "I didn't want to upset her." Then "I knew posting it on fb would get back to her and upset her/" Huh?

I think the whole problem stemmed from this:

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I basically told myself "you need to get this off your chest, and there's no way this is going to go well, but you have to do SOMETHING."


Note what I said in my first response about the illusion of action?? In DBing often the best action is NO ACTION AT ALL.

I am not going to lie, this is a huge setback. It also makes me question if you were really DBing as well as I thought you were all this time. I am guessing that the DBing you were doing wasn't for yourself, and was to try to manipulate her. I think you even recently said, after she didn't let the D expire, that DBing was having the opposite of the desired effect.

As I read your update, sandi's rule #37 was screaming from memory.......you worked hard all these last few months. I am afraid you backslid and undid all of that.

bm I will keep you in my prayers. I think what I am saddest for you is this:

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Does that matter? Not really, because there's literally no way for me to control who she has him around


So you blew it all up. Potentially ruined any chance of avoiding D. And still did nothing to ensure your S won't continue to be exposed to OM and his snakes. (Because I agree 100% with you that there is no way she is done with him over this. She will do what all WAWs/WWs do when the LBH snoops and confronts them about things......go deeper undercover.)

I am not seeing any upside here.

One final 2x4. This is all because you went back on your desire to stay off of FB. Look at your paragraph about OM:

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FB search found him. Matched other social media accounts, found pics of the snakes.



FB. FB. FB.

FB is all over this.


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Oh and go back up and read sandi's post right before your huge update.

Sadly, I don't think you heeded her advice. And sadly I think you are doomed to now suffer the consequences similar to the sitch she linked to you.


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bm, please go back and read your response. There are a lot of contradictions. "I didn't want to upset her." Then "I knew posting it on fb would get back to her and upset her/" Huh?


I didn't want to upset her. - True.

I knew that it would upset her. - Also true.

Posting would upset her. - True

If I post, the outcome (safety of S) will outweigh the cost (anger of W). - True


I get how those appear to contradict, but in my thought process, they didn't. Those aren't mutually exclusive things.


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Oh and go back up and read sandi's post right before your huge update.


I read it yesterday, after everything had already happened.

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I am not going to lie, this is a huge setback. It also makes me question if you were really DBing as well as I thought you were all this time. I am guessing that the DBing you were doing wasn't for yourself, and was to try to manipulate her. I think you even recently said, after she didn't let the D expire, that DBing was having the opposite of the desired effect.


I figured that it would be. But I also believed that some action, even if it wasn't the best one, was better than no action.

Realistically, would it stop them? Probably not.

Would it send a very clear message to W that she needs to THINK before she just randomly takes S around OM? Hopefully.

The DB was for myself. Of course, like some other posters I've read, I tended to fall into the "omg this isn't working halp" trap. It's hard to tell what will work and what won't, what IS working and what isn't, etc. when you're on the inside.

From the outside, it's often more clear. Inside...you've got a LOT of s#1t in your head clouding things up. Factor in something like ADHD and you've got a bomb.

Despite the nuke, I'm still going to DB. Probably harder than ever. I'm going to ride this out until the end, because I don't want to just give up and say "well, I effed up, guess I'm done."

I'm not quitting.

What I hope is (and believe me...I know just how unlikely/impossible this is) that W got the information, said in her mind "wow...what was I thinking?" and starts to make better choices. She gets mad and accuses me of trying to make her feel like a bad mom. She's not a bad mom, but she's a poor judge of character (including her own), and she is impulsive, and she is selfish. She loves S, but she doesn't think about these things before they happen.

I know that's unrealistic to believe. I don't believe that will happen. But I can hope for it all I want.

##########

On that note, W just texted me. She's wanting to bring S's bed, the kitchen table, and the couch to my place this weekend. The message: "I'd like to bring over some things this weekend to your house if that's ok and you want them. Let me know. S's bed, kitchen table, couch"


I have not responded yet. I have plans this weekend. Sunday afternoon, S will be coming over to my apartment. She is probably wanting to do that sooner than that time, but I will be in and out of the house GAL this weekend, and it's going to be very inconvenient to change my schedule around to make way for her.

In fact, I know I don't have to change any plans for her. She left.

Not only that, but I'm not sure who she's going to try to get help from moving that stuff upstairs. There are certain people that I wouldn't let into my apartment for any reason at all.

Anyway, going to try really hard to do better at this. It may not work, and I'd like some advice on proceeding and dealing with this furniture thing.

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I like the attitude of getting over this and moving forward with the DBing! Very well done bm. I know I was hard on your actions in your update, but now all you can do is move forward.

I would wait a while, and then tell her "That cannot occur this weekend until Sunday afternoon at the earliest. I am busy most of the time until then."

More than likely she won't respond.

But yes keep GAL (like this weekend). Keep 180ing (like no more snooping, avoid OM at all costs, etc). And definitely keep trying to detach. This latest incident proves you haven't detached......so make that your focus moving forward.

ONWARD AND UPWARD!!


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Indeed. smile

She definitely got a bit colder, but it could be the shock of stupidity. Dunno. Can't count on anything other than myself here, and even that's sketchy at best. lol.

Thank you, Steve.

I need the 2x4 once in a while. And I always kinda know when I need them...heh. They suck of course, but without correction we'd never learn anything.

I make some strange decisions that to most people seem pretty stupid/reckless/insane, but I do try to make the best choices given the circumstances that I can in just about every situation. Explaining them can be tricky though. Heh.

Either way, onward and upward!

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Ugghhhhhh...here we go...that was quick. Updates coming soon.

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Originally Posted by Steve85
I question that last if. Were your intentions pure?

First, why the forum you chose? Why FB? And if you don't feel bad about it (you repeated that many times in your post almost as if you were trying to convince yourself as much as us) then why did you take it down?


BM, I am right there with Steve, your entire post read to me like control, manipulation and passive/ aggressive behavior. What I can't figure out is if you are trying to deceive us or yourself that your intentions were pure. They weren't, and I'm sure on some level you know that. One thing I've got to tell you, DB'ing isn't very effective if you're not 100% open and honest with us and with yourself. Don't take that the wrong way, I am saying it in the spirit of helping you, not to make you mad. You did a lot wrong in that interaction and you need to own it!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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I hesitated to respond about the furniture. A bit later, I got another text.

W - I need to talk to you can you please call me asap

M - Is S ok?

W - Yes.

M - Is it about S?

W - Well, kind of. There are a couple of things we need to discuss and it's too much to txt. Will you call me or no?

M - Ok.

So I called. She started in about setting a mediation date and asking about when she could bring the furniture this weekend. I listened silently and didn't cut her off. I stayed calm, polite, and firm. I responded "I have plans this weekend, and I'm not sure of an ideal time. Most likely it would be Sunday evening, however I'll look at my plans and get back to you when I know when I'm available. As for mediation, I will look over my finances and schedule and let you know when I make a decision." She blew up. She started crying, and said "you always have to control me, don't you?" and then hung up the phone.

I didn't text her. I just let it go. I got another txt a couple minutes later.

W - Mediation costs (amt). I need to know what afternoon you prefer so I can schedule it. Either 9/19 or 9/10. We have to complete mediation and file the decree with the court before our court date.

> Note, she requested a date, but it hasn't been set yet afaik.

M - "I don't believe that our marital issues require a divorce for resolution, but I understand that you feel that way and I will not stand in your way. However, I am not prepared to agree to a mediation date at this time, so I will look over my schedule and finances when I get a chance and then get back to you about it."

W - I am prepared to pay your half of mediation. So pls let me know by Monday at noon so that I can be sure to get our spot.

> Note, this isn't a movie date. Plus she had just told me on the phone that she is being given notice of eviction on Monday, so her paying for it seems a bit silly. I hesitated to respond.

W - I've made storage arrangements for my things (note: I technically own half of these things) and won't be contacting you this weekend.

> Note, at this point I figured that she's about to try to ram this down my throat, so it's time to use the b@lls that I found recently and DB the hell out of this. I probably said too much, but I decided that some things needed to be made very clear. This time, no FB posts.

M - It is clear that you do not value my request for time to look at my schedule and see what works, nor do you value my feelings on the entire matter. I believe you are acting solely out of anger. I understand that you are angry at my passive behavior during our marriage, and have expressed my regret and have taken ownership for this many times. Despite this, you accuse me of trying to control you, which is completely false. I have respected your requests for distance and time, yet you have not respected mine at all. You continually make demands of my time and resources, and when I state that I have a need for time to consider your request, you demand that I act on your terms, and when I politely express my need for time to gather information you blame me for trying to control you and then change course without notice, which is absolutely disrespectful. You have not even once apologized to me for putting S and I through this process, showing that you respect neither my nor S's feelings. Furthermore, you have entered multiple A with multiple OM with no regard for my feelings at all, and also without regard for S's safety. So I will look over the information you have sent me when I have the opportunity and I will reach out to you when I have made a decision.

W - The mediation place needs advance notice to schedule, and they adv me to try to call and sched earlier in the week to ensure a spot will be available. This is the sole purpose of my request that you get back to me within the next 72 hrs. I understand you have plans this weekend with your friend, however I would appreciate it if you could find time in your schedule to get back to me.

M - My plans are my business, and you do not need to make assumptions about them. I have respected your privacy, yet you still have actively spied on my social media posts. My plans do not require your approval, and my sched no longer revolves around you. As I have said, I'll consider the information you have sent me when I have time, and I will let you know when I have made a decision.

M - Furthermore, I asked if the call was about S. You lied to me because you knew I would call you if it was. The call had nothing to do with him. It is clear that you have no respect for me, and that you chose to lie to me in order to manipulate me. That is insanely disrespectful to both S and I. You have shown that you are willing to use him to get to me. You clearly have no respect for him if you are willing to use him like that.

W - The D involves S, and the sooner it's over the sooner he will adjust. Also, I was trying to arrange a time to get his bed to you, which is also about S, considering our goal for a long time has been to reduce co-sleeping. We also didn't get to discuss everything I wanted to.

M - Because you hung up on me.

W - Yeah, well I'm working and I had to go.

M - S didn't request or initiate the D. Nor did I. This action is solely yours. Moving his bed wouldn't have been an issue had you not initiated this. You say you were trying to arrange a time, and when I said I would let you know what works for me, you became disrespectful and accused me of being controlling. That's not "arranging". It's demanding and manipulating. S would have no need to adjust had you not initiated this.

W - What do you feel is a reasonable amt of time to decide? Keep in mind, earlier this year you put my cat for free on FB bc I didn't respond to you within the same biz day. Let me know when you can.

M - You knew the cat was attacking S frequently before you moved. I requested rehoming the cat multiple times. Instead of respecting S's safety, you refused to address the issue. Instead, you chose to abandon the R, move to an apartment that doesn't allow pets, and you left the cat w/me to deal with. I decided it was best for S to give the cat away. My budget didn't allow for pet care, also. Bringing this up is an attempt to justify your demands, and it's neither loving nor respectful. It appears you value your opinion more than either my feelings or S's safety.

W - You accuse me of not regarding S's safety when you've repeatedly told me that you know I'm a good mom. Your feelings towards me aside, pls stop trying to build some sort of argument against me as a mother. We both know that he's safe w/me. If you're hoping to hurt me in court, you could just simply discuss w/me what it is that you want to gain from your public and personal attacks against me. It doesn't seem like you're txtng me to get anywhere, you're just trying to have your opinion in txt form. The amt of time you've spent txt me could have been spent analyzing your schedule. But I understand you have opinions you feel like you need to express. I hope you have a good day.

M - I believe you are a caring mother, however your actions speak otherwise. What I choose to believe is personal to me. Unfortunately your actions indicate that you do not think about your actions beyond how they make you feel. My feelings have no bearing on facts. Allowing S to spend the night in a house full of venomous snakes shows poor judgment. As does letting him ride with a person with a DWI conviction. You demonstrate that you don't respect his well-being, nor my feelings. How I use my time is my business. I have stated that I would review the info. Please respect my request for time to process it.

W - Get back to me when you can.

M - *crickets*


====================

The manipulation attempts are deafening. LOL.

I don't plan to give her a response to when I want to mediate any time soon. Because I don't want a D. I'm not going to undo my plans just to make time for her to move stuff back based on her demands (even if she can only get help for about two hours Saturday afternoon, and no, she can't move it in when I'm not there...I want to make sure who is at my apartment).

The more advice I can get in a short time is going to help a lot. This is starting to ramp up, and I can already tell I'm in for a battle.

I said a lot. But I also stood firm. And I know that I said some stuff that made her feel less than thrilled. But I DO NOT want a D, and I DO NOT plan to help her. I don't understand the rush. Probably just to get it over with so she can feel honest when she says she's single.

That's not my game, and I'm not playing.

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My suggestion? Hire a lawyer. Personally I feel that your actions are rushing you quicker towards D and you need to be prepared legally.

Good luck bm.


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There's no possible way that I can afford a lawyer. Nor can she.

I don't really know the right answer here.

So, any idea if there are any people around that was able to make this work at this level? I don't imagine there are many, but I'll take any advice I can get.

Thank you, Steve.

Sandy? Any thoughts?

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Maybe I should just not respond to her in any way at all?

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BM, I advise everyone about to go through divorce that say that they can't afford a lawyer, that they can't afford to not have a lawyer. At least schedule a free consultation.


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Hi blakmac,

I have not followed your sitch,

I can't tell you if it was good or bad at saving M, but I liked the way you responded. Lots of truth darts.

I believe the truth will set you free.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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Understood.

Aside from the lawyer...I feel like I'm kind of getting abandoned here. frown

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BM

Have read a couple of your threads and your sitch is similar to mine in W has shown no respect whatsoever since BD and has only been self serving to whatever suites her.

I’ve tried those truth bombs via texts a couple months ago....it may feel good in the moment, but it set me back to the basement regarding progress.

I’m same way in standing for MR and want to make sure no stone, rock, or pebble is left.

I guess you need to determine what end goal is...

I’m not in favor of being friends with WAS after all she has put me and S thru. Yet W still envisions us going on family vacations together, expects me to live across street from her place, etc. All nonsense.

When w initially filed, she called to ask that I go pick up the papers downtown so she wouldn’t have to pay service processor. The way WAW thinks and acts is just wackadoo nuts.

I’m at the crossroads of ponying up for attorney. It’s been my saving grace at my stage as it really forces reality into WAS false reality.


Best of luck.


Me - 38 W-37
S6
M 10 years T 13yrs
BD 3/18
W moves out 4/18
W files 7/18

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Originally Posted by blakmac
Understood.

Aside from the lawyer...I feel like I'm kind of getting abandoned here. frown


Huh? Why?


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Hey BM, you are in an anger cycle against W. It’s logical to have hard feelings but you need to DB as many of us have tried to tell you. Avoid R talks. I know you were manipulated to have that last one but if that happens keep talk short and to the point. If it’s not related to your S then try not to have it.

Keep on detaching, don’t push away confronting her. You did well getting some boundaries securing your S sake.

Go and read again what AS and Steve have posted. You need to be consistent when DB.

Sending you a hug and hoping you have a nice weekend BM


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Thank you.

Steve, sorry. I just meant in general. Not specifically. I'm just frustrated.

W said yesterday that all she wants to do is to move on, finish the D, and be done with me.

I dunno. Kinda feel lost.

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One thing though that does stick out...in the middle of all of her ranting, she would sometimes make a comment, stop, and apologize for the comment saying "that was unfair, I'm sorry" or something like that.

I don't want to read into it. But it's definitely her normal reaction whenever she says something she knows she didn't mean. It's rare, but it happens more and more.

I don't get it. Why would anyone with so much hate, animosity, and without any concern for someone's feelings feel bad about anything they say at all? Why would they want to be rid of me, but still worry about what I say? None of that makes sense. I know the WW thing doesn't make sense, but this is just absolutely hell.

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Yesterday, I deactivated my FB for a while. I'm tired of every time her feelings get hurt that it turns into my fault.

Literally everything that upsets her is because of me, according to her.

It's exhausting to say the least. So I'm just going to take a break from saying anything at all.

I got word from W's aunt yesterday that W's grandmother is going into hospice today. Her family has always treated me like their own, and I love them all very much. So this is going to be a difficult time.

Another one of the things that have been stressing me out is that my daughter from my 1st M has been very sick. They live too far away for me to be able to be there, and that's always difficult (also something W likes to bring up...that I don't see them enough so I can't say she's a bad parent because it's hypocritical). She is a type 1 diabetic, and also just had to have her thyroid checked because of swelling, they didn't find cancer, but they found early polyps that can cause cancer. I have been keeping up with them frequently (since going to see them isn't something I can afford to do at all, I at least try to stay connected with them). I had told W a few weeks ago that she was going to get tested for that, and W had no response at all to it. None.

It seems that W has absolutely nothing except anger and hate towards me. At least, that's what she says. We did finally come to the conclusion that her main point of contention was that she would say that she was upset about something, and instead of fixing it, I would just get sad and sulk about it. So I get that, I was too passive.

She likes to bring up random things to try to make me feel bad. She brought up "her" cat that I had to get rid of after she moved out and left it behind (it kept attacking S, and I told her to come get it). To her, this is me not caring about her or how she feels, or the well-being of the cat.

Now she says that she actually tried to leave when she was pregnant with S. She had jumped out of the car and ran down the road. She said that was her trying to leave me. The sad part is that I remember what that was about...we were talking about pregnancy changes, and I stated something about how hormones affect women during pregnancy (not being flippant, but stating a medical fact) and that for some reason caused her to start hating me. Because I "ruined the magic of pregnancy", and since I had older kids she felt that I was "bringing up the sex life" of me and my first W. I wasn't at all, so I have always felt like this was a drastic overreaction that she's chosen never to let go of.

W seems to think that anyone who says/does ANYTHING that upsets her is trying to hurt her. She's also insanely co-dependent (doesn't need anyone, but can have sex with whoever she wants).

It's a lot of bs. I'm tired. Yesterday, I just wanted to give up totally on everything.

I'm going to pull back and just not talk to her. Which, of course, she also has a problem with. Yesterday she said "you have these cycles, you try being nice, and when I don't come back, you turn mean (as in, I put my foot down about my boundaries), then you feel bad and get quiet, then it starts over again, and it's annoying."

She did admit that the problems we had in the M were all fixable. But she says "the problems we have now since I left can't be fixed" and that had I "respected that the R was over when I left we wouldn't have these problems."

I still disagree.

I'm still a mess about it all. She seems to actually believe that nothing is her fault, and still wants to manufacture things to blame me for.

I know, that's what WW do. But it's exhausting. And honestly, it hurts like hell.

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I can't seem to get anywhere. If I'm on my ADHD meds, she says I'm "too aggressive", and if I'm not, I'm "too much of an emotional puddle".

This is effed up. I'm so tired.

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S is here now playing with his toys till W gets off work. I've spent a little time today packing up some of her belongings so that she can take them with her when she picks him up. I let her know I had them, of course she was offended because she's in the middle of being evicted from her apartment. She asked if I could hold on to them for a week or two. I politely said "I'm just tired of looking at them."

Today is hard. While cleaning I found some cards and wedding pics.

She's on the way to pick up S now.

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When W picked S up, I had the things bagged up by the door. She came in and played with S for a couple of minutes. I told her "I have some of your stuff ready for you. Please take it with you."

W - "I'm in the middle of an eviction, dude."

M - "I know. But I'm tired of seeing it all of the time. Please take it."

W - "Well, you can just look at it for another week or so."


Why can't this be easier? She knows it hurts me to see her things. I know she's in the process of moving, but I really can't do anything about her situation. It's not my problem to fix.

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Take her things and stick them in a storage area out of sight.

bm, sometimes LBSs play this game: "I want to engage you over something so I am going to make your stuff at my house an issue. However, I am not going to get it out of my sight, I am just going to continue to use it to remind myself of you, and complain about it every chance I get."

Don't play that game. Your not seeing her stuff isn't up to her, it is up to you. Stick it bags and boxes. Then put in an unused room, an attic, a storage area, the basement. ANYWHERE out of your sight.


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That's basically what I was working on. That's good advice, too.

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I just got word that W's grandmother passed this morning.

I'm not sure whether W has heard yet or not.

Her world is turning upside down. I know it's not my problem. But it still is hard to watch. Especially from a distance.

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Definitely could use some advice for this asap. W just texted me, she just found out about her GM. I responded "I just heard, I'm very sorry."

She called. She wants to bring S to me (or for me to come get him) so she can have some time alone because S isn't being cooperative and putting his shoes on, etc. She's a mess because of her grandmother passing. She txt again and said she's taking S to a restaurant. She wanted to bring him to my job and leave him with me...

I don't mind being there for family. But I really don't know how to navigate this successfully.

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After 20 min, W texted me again: "I'm gonna be okay. I don't need your help with S this morning."

Funny how she did, then she didn't.

I get the feeling that once again I'm the bad guy for not saying no, but also for not jumping and running.

Ugh.

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Her GM passing is a big deal. I would suggest moving mountains, and bending over backwards, to help her anyway you can.


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I was going to saybthe same thing but wanted to wait for a more experienced poster. I think you do whatever younhave to/can at this time.


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I know, that's how I feel as well. Unfortunately the task I was working on couldn't be put off, since it was critical. It took me another hour at least. But she waited 20 minutes to tell me not to bother her.

I'm picking S up from school today. I know she's probably going to be a wreck when she picks him up this evening. I wish that I could help her in any way necessary, but I doubt that she's going to allow me to.

I did contact her aunt, mother, and sister to express my condolences and tell them I love them, and let them know if they needed anything at all, they could contact me.

I know that W is probably not going to ask me for anything. And I know that if I tell her that I'm willing to help, she's probably just going to tell me how she doesn't need me for anything. But I'm willing to do whatever she needs me to do to help her out with this.

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Originally Posted by blakmac
I know, that's how I feel as well. Unfortunately the task I was working on couldn't be put off, since it was critical. It took me another hour at least. But she waited 20 minutes to tell me not to bother her.

I'm picking S up from school today. I know she's probably going to be a wreck when she picks him up this evening. I wish that I could help her in any way necessary, but I doubt that she's going to allow me to.

I did contact her aunt, mother, and sister to express my condolences and tell them I love them, and let them know if they needed anything at all, they could contact me.

I know that W is probably not going to ask me for anything. And I know that if I tell her that I'm willing to help, she's probably just going to tell me how she doesn't need me for anything. But I'm willing to do whatever she needs me to do to help her out with this.


Be the lighthouse. Be ready to help if asked. Don't leap into action.


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Originally Posted by blakmac

So I called. She started in about setting a mediation date and asking about when she could bring the furniture this weekend. I listened silently and didn't cut her off. I stayed calm, polite, and firm. I responded "I have plans this weekend, and I'm not sure of an ideal time. Most likely it would be Sunday evening, however I'll look at my plans and get back to you when I know when I'm available. As for mediation, I will look over my finances and schedule and let you know when I make a decision." She blew up. She started crying, and said "you always have to control me, don't you?" and then hung up the phone.


OK, well this part sounds fine, her reaction was dramatic but I don't think you said anything unreasonable.

All the texting afterwards though, that was too much. You're just pushing her farther away and not accomplishing anything with those exchanges. And you are only seeing your side of the story. When I read the exchange I see a lot of passive/aggressive comments from you and a lot of unfair comments using S to try and guilt-trip her. There is ZERO benefit to you in any of that, you are just making your R with her worse. You've got to quit avoiding and ignoring her, and then lashing out when she tries to talk to you about the D. YOU CAN'T STOP THE D. If she's hellbent on getting a D she will get it whether you cooperate or not. So you should cooperate. It's fine to remind her D is not what you want, but you should also tell her you will not stand in the way. If she asks for info, then give it to her.

What is your goal, to save your M? Before saying or doing anything ask yourself this question- "IS WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY/ DO GETTING ME CLOSER TO MY GOAL OR FARTHER AWAY?" I think most of your actions are pushing you farther away from that goal, if that is your goal.


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Quote
What is your goal, to save your M? Before saying or doing anything ask yourself this question- "IS WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY/ DO GETTING ME CLOSER TO MY GOAL OR FARTHER AWAY?" I think most of your actions are pushing you farther away from that goal, if that is your goal.


That's great advice. I think I heard it earlier, but I need to slow down more often and try to think before reacting.

I hadn't been avoiding/ignoring, but only responding when she reached out to me. The whole thing is confusing because it's hard to tell when to go NC and when not to.

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I tried to apply the advice when W picked up S. She informed me that she has to work later tomorrow and she probably won't be off early. And then she ripped into me.

The couch, S's bed, and kitchen table she offered to bring over this past weekend was brought up. She was mad that I didn't have time for her to bring it by when she wanted to, and her friend wants to buy the couch. I said politely that I'd still like them. She said "well, you can pay me for half of what it cost." I told her I'd be here Wednesday evening if she wanted to bring them by. I told her that I know she's going through a lot today...and she cut me off. She began yelling at me about asking her to take her things yesterday and how it's awful that I even asked her because of her moving. I told her she's welcome to leave them here for now. She claimed that when I asked, I was acting like it HAD to be done then (which I didn't, I had just politely asked, and when she objected I dropped it).

I didn't argue, raise my voice, or argue with her today. I waved politely as she left, she just stared at me like I was an enemy.

We did have a tiny laugh early on when she got here, but apparently us being able to smile and laugh throws her into a tantrum of epic proportions.

I feel like no matter what I say, how I say it, or even if I don't say anything is wrong.

I'm so frustrated. But at least I know that I kept calm and tried to listen and be caring about everything.

I dunno.

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W texted me after she left. She asked if I wanted some of the other things she has. I told her I would take whatever she couldn't use, and thanked her for asking me. I said:

M - I hope I didn't offend you earlier. I know today has been rough, and I'm sorry if I said anything that hurt or upset you.

W - I'm just tired of fighting with you, and I'm angry at you, so please don't take it offensive that I want to talk to you as little as possible, but I need to communicate various things to you.

M - I understand why you're angry, and I'm sincerely sorry for hurting you. I'm not offended, I understand.

W - Can you please request off for mediation? I will pay. I need to call and schedule it tomorrow. I was hoping to have an answer by noon today.

M - I will ask. I've set a reminder, I'll try to get that afternoon off. Try to get some rest tonight. You've had a hard day, and you deserve a break. I'll let you go, have a good night. And if you need anything, I should be around.



I really wish I didn't have to let her go.

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W texted me. She set the mediation date for next Wednesday. I thanked her for letting me know and told her I would add it to my calendar so I would remember to be there.

It's still sad that she's willing to pay my half of this, but she's also getting kicked out of her apartment for not paying the bill.

I know that means that in the future she's going to have trouble finding places she can live. Her mom co-signed for her apartment, so that's going to mess that option up for her.

I get the feeling that she's just so hell bent on getting this done that she's overlooked some major things...and now I'm at the part where I'm starting to come to terms with it being over. I'm trying to bow out gracefully (while still trying to DB). Even though I know I'll be D in about 3 weeks most likely, I get the feeling that I'll be plan J or something down the road. I don't know why I feel that way.

It hurts. But I'm going to be ok. Just going to keep moving ahead.

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Good job blakmac, sounds like you validated and kept your own emotions in check. Well done.


Originally Posted by blakmac
I really wish I didn't have to let her go.


Unfortunately you must. Maybe she'll come back some day, but for now you've got to let her go. That's the only path to future recon.


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bm, think about where you came from. I still remember her picking up your S, you trying to flag her down to talk, and her smiling wryly, waving and just kept going. Until you got to the point where she was calling, talking, hugging, wanting you to meet them for lunch, etc. DBing your butt off got you so much further ahead than you were.

And then when you stopped DBing, let OM get in your head, and you reverted on all those hard earned changes (just like sandi warns about), now you are facing your worst fear.

So what is the answer? Do what works! Stop doing what doesn't. What worked was DBing. What didn't work was not DBing.

So get back to it. Always be DBing. DB through mediation. DB through D. DB through coparenting. DB DB DB


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I guess I lost track of how to DB well.

I know I need to get this back on track. I know the D will happen, but I want to be the lighthouse.

I guess listening, not chasing, and cooperating are key.

Any other specific recommendations?

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She told me she had to work till 9 tonight (I'm picking up S from school), and she wouldn't be able to get off early. She knows I have access to her schedule through my work. She knows she's not scheduled that late.

I just really hate the lies.

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Originally Posted by blakmac
She told me she had to work till 9 tonight (I'm picking up S from school), and she wouldn't be able to get off early. She knows I have access to her schedule through my work. She knows she's not scheduled that late.

I just really hate the lies.


Unfortunately, you have to let it go. Lying is a major part of where they are at their waywardness. In my sitch, i didnt believe it was humanly possible to lie so much but my W has done it for over a year and a half straight. As you said, it doesnt matter if its easy to prove them wrong or not, they are going to lie. My W's lies were on par with something a 5 year old would put together, you could see straight through them and prove they were wrong in some cases. She still kept lying though. If i was you, id expect more of the same...lies.


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You're right. No reason for her to stop now.

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W picked up S. No fighting or arguing. She even asked if I wanted to come say goodnight to S after she got him in his car seat. She put on some music for him (although Believe by Cher seems a bit passive-aggressive lol).

I said goodnight to S, goodnight to W, and smiled and waved them off.

No arguing was nice.

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Bonus S time! W is bringing some furniture to my apartment this evening, and she asked if I would pick S up from school so she can have a little bit more time to get her moving done since she's on a tight deadline. I told her I'd be glad to pick him up.

It's nice to get along with her. I just hope that over time she comes around.

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Originally Posted by blakmac

It's nice to get along with her. I just hope that over time she comes around.


DBing and getting along will go further towards this than pressure, pursuit and fighting. So yes, keep it up!


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W called me. She had wanted me to keep S overnight tonight, but being a school night, work night, and having GAL plans tonight, I had to decline, however I agreed to keep him later than planned so she can get as much of her moving done as possible. He is likely going to be with me all weekend as well. We talked for about 20 min without arguing, and she said that she really appreciates that I'm trying to be cooperative. She had a bunch of things (logistics, etc.) she needs to work out with me, but she is running like crazy to make the move happen, so I told her that she can focus on the critical parts of the move, and we can work out the non-critical parts (where I'm involved) whenever is convenient for her. She was very appreciative of that.

Just going to keep trying to be calm, helpful, and respectful. It seems to work way better than anything else.

Still have DB to do, still have D to get through, but maybe we can be ok down the road. Who really knows?

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S got into some trouble at school, so W called me and asked if I could pick him up early. I did, and on the way home W and I talked about how to handle the situation, and we came up with an agreed plan so that we could be consistent with the discipline. Teamwork!

W brought some of our furniture back to my apartment. She also brought some other furniture that she didn't have room for at her new place. S's bed and the couch will be coming back soon.

She had been working hard trying to move her stuff all day, so I gave her a bottle of water. She still has another trip to make tonight.

She asked me not to look in the back of her car. I was like "well...alright". She told me that she had our wedding stuff in there, and she didn't want me to see it and get sad.

I laughed and smiled, and thanked her for the warning.

I wanted to say "this whole thing makes me sad regardless..." but I resisted. I stayed upbeat and polite. She did as well.

She accidentally drove off with my car keys though, and she had to bring them back. I thanked her for bringing them.

W - "Did you think I would just leave you stranded? I know you think I'm mean..."

M - *joking* "Well, you can be sometimes..." *laughed*

W - *smiled and laughed* "Well, you know...I'm not that mean."

M - "I know."

I waved politely and she smiled and waved back, then she drove off.


The only thing that was weird was that she had asked if S could stay the night at my place tonight. I told her that I had plans (true, but pending). Really, I would love S to stay, but I have work in the morning, and every time he's stayed during the week, she's taken advantage of me taking care of him and would show up late (or not at all) to pick him up after a long night of partying. I didn't bring that up, and she didn't take offense to my objection. I do have to make sure that I'm taking care of my job. It's been good for me to stay busy and productive.

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W wanted to have lunch today w/o S. She met me at the office and we took my car. We talked about her work schedule coming up, some logistics for handling S and his school schedule, and we had a couple of laughs. A couple of times the conversation veered a little close to flirting, she would smile, blush, and then say that she's getting frustrated and we need to stay on topic.

I know that what it LOOKS like isn't what I can trust. But it LOOKS like she's still hell bent on talking herself out of feeling anything for me. I can't tell, and it doesn't matter.

What matters is that we had a good lunch, no arguing, some smiles, and she gave me a big hug when I got back to work. That was nice.

I almost started to break down at one point when she mentioned (after a little flirty joking) that she was getting frustrated about the flirting and that I need to remember that we're not together, to which I said "I'm sorry, I am just having a nice lunch with you, and I don't think I'll have many more of these." I pulled myself together quickly, and she just looked at me like she regretted saying that, and we continued the conversation.

So far it's going smoother at least.

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Okay but next time she wants to have lunch you are busy!!!


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That sounds like a good idea. Also it looks like she may be getting the job in the office where I work, so that could be an interesting situation all around. Heh.

I did get some late night meme texts before bed. That was interesting.

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Today she called about S to make arrangements with me to help pay for day care. Since she moved two days ago, she would have to transfer schools and her work schedule doesn't really work for that. But Monday she has an interview for the job in my office.

She was going to her grandmother's funeral. I told her to be careful and give them a hug for me. She said "No. They don't even talk to me because of you (note: referring to me talking to them about what had gone on several months ago...as in, the conversations happened several months ago), and I don't want to talk to them if they like you, so no. Hug them yourself. I just want to get off the phone civilly. This is why I'm mad at you, because YOU pushed my family away from me (note: she always said she was never close to most of them anyway). F*** you!"

M - "I thought you said "civilly"...

W - "You know what...you're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that."

M - "It's okay, I understand. I'll let you go, have a good day."

I got home and a letter from the court was in the mailbox. We now have a court date. It's in 12 days.

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I dont have much to offer in the way of perspective, just wanted you to know I empathize with your sucky day. I know you were hoping the time would come and go for the court date so Im sorry that didnt happen. We cant know what the future holds but I feel like you should take some comfort in knowing youre doing your very best with the hand youve been dealt. Stay strong.


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Thank you. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing, and trying to make it through this.

Tonight, S was very angry and sad. I asked him if he wanted to talk about it.

S - "I want to live with you. I don't want to live with mommy."

M - "Don't you like your new house?"

S - "No. I don't want two houses. I only want one house."

M - "I understand. Have you told mommy that?"

S - "No."

M - "I see. Well, I know it's hard, but it will be okay. Mommy and I love you very much. I know this is hard. It's hard for everyone, but it will be okay. Just remember that mommy and I love you more than anything in the world."


And THAT is why this hurts so much now. I can't stand to see S hurting. I hurt, but that's nothing compared to how it hurts to see him hurting.


I'm hoping for the best. I'm just going to be a rock for him, and a lighthouse for her. That's all I can really do right now.

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The "rock" and the "lighthouse", those are exactly what you need to be. Keep doing what your doing BM.

As for the kids, its tough seeing them go through this. At first I was so hurt and pi**ed that i had to deal with my WW, but then i realized my S was going through it too. Just thinking of how she was ruining his innocent childhood made me 10x angrier sbout the whole situation. Im trying to be the best dad possible, and also let my S know he didnt cause any of this...because hes hinted that he thinks some of this is because of him. Im glad you are doing the best for your S too, keep it up!


Together:20 years
M:3 years
Me:40
WW:40
S15
A suspected:5/17
AC:5/18
BD:8/18
WW in full blown R w/ OM
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Well, here's an update.

S stayed with me Friday night. W was late to get him, but she showed me her phone, the time was all messed up on it and the alarms didn't go off. So it was legit. Saturday, after dropping S off, I came home to get ready for my HS reunion. W called and asked if I could bring some medication that she needed from my place, so I took it to her. We were talking about money and logistics, and she kind of had a moment where she just decided to be mad...so I left politely.

The reunion was totally awesome. Saw a lot of old friends that I've missed a lot, did a lot of joking and catching up, and that was great.

Got back super late last night, ended up barely getting any sleep, but it was alright. I got up today, went grocery shopping, then S came over and we hung out most of the afternoon.

Since W figured out that she's ADHD, she started taking meds.

OMG. What a huge difference! She was in a good mood, she talked to me kindly, was extremely polite and considerate, and she even found a silver quarter today and gave it to me (I ended up paying her for it, just to keep stuff from feeling too weird). I asked if she had started taking meds for the ADHD, she did. I told her that I could tell because she was talking to me differently than she had in forever. She said "is that good or bad?" I said "It's good."

So now I'm thinking that the situation HAS a solution, I'm just hoping she realizes it at some point.

When she's not on meds, everything she says feels loaded, hurtful, and downright venomous. On the meds...she's a lot more...calm, collected (despite the symptoms being more noticeable when the anxiety isn't nearly as prevalent), and just...nice.

Even to me.

I know that it would take an absolute miracle for her to consider dropping the D, and that's not what I'm expecting. Although if her meds start correcting some of the anxiety/depression/rage, then maybe there's hope after all. At least at some point.

I really don't see things changing. But at least there's that.

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blakmac Offline OP
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Mediation is tomorrow.

I'm not ready for this.

I'm just not.

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Hang in Blakmac I don't have advice for you but you have my support.

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Originally Posted by blakmac
Mediation is tomorrow.

I'm not ready for this.

I'm just not.


Keep DBing even in mediation. You got this man. Dig deep and show her that confident, in control, attractive side. Remember, D is NOT the end, it is a step in the process. Too many LBS hang too much significance on D. We just had a poster comeback after being D'd for a year, and his WAW is trying to R. ANYTHING can happen before or after D.

I just told another poster the other day, D is not worse that BD. It is not worse than the day the WAS moved out. Etc........

If you survived all that then mediation is nothing in comparison. So go in there and OWN it!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Blakmac,

Hang in there. Be strong in there. You can do it.


Sending you good wishes.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
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Stay strong man!


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
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Thank you, everyone.

So...

I'm getting full custody. It's temporary until she has a permanent house and permanent job, and then we can reconsider 50/50. The snake stuff...the huge emotional mistake...apparently that was a good call, because that plus all of the moving S around sealed the deal to the point where she couldn't do anything but agree that the points were valid. She'll have full visitation with no restrictions on when those times are, however I have the right to say no, and I can choose who S stays with if neither me nor her are available.

She will be paying half of day care costs and also child support.

I keep the car. Car note, too.

I opted not to make her pay half the credit card debt. It wasn't going to make any real impact on anything, anyway, but with CS and the daycare split, that will help a little.

Pretty much everything else is 50/50. Nothing really to argue over.

She did try to get a gag order so I couldn't say anything at all about the D, or her, or parenting choices, but I had to tell the mediator "this is stupid, and it shouldn't even be up for discussion at mediation, because it's not why we're here." The mediator agreed, and she dropped it.

So, before I left the mediation room, her sis txted me something to the effect of "you're a manipulative b*****d and you should kill yourself". I told her sis that I was sorry she felt that way.

What W doesn't realize yet is that I still don't intend to FORCE S to live with me and cut her off. I want her to step up and be the best person she can be for S, and get her life under control. I think she got the message loud and clear. I'm fine with her spending time with S, and I wouldn't try to stop her. But the poor decisions where he's involved are done, and while I will be playing it cool, I retain the authority to cut it all off. I hope I never have to do that.

I'm still going to DB. I'm terrified that I won't be able to do this single dad thing well. But at least I can ensure that better decisions are made where S is concerned, and that's all that really matters.


Love you all!

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Congrats Blakmac!

It sounds like you handled it really well and came away with a huge win in terms of custody.


W 34 Me 42
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0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
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Well Done bm- you will do fine as a single dad - Look how you handled looking out for your S with the snakes. Stay positive!


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

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Moving forward with your head up.

Not bad at all, right?

Yes, keep DBing!


WW H(me): 53
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Quote
What W doesn't realize yet is that I still don't intend to FORCE S to live with me and cut her off. I want her to step up and be the best person she can be for S, and get her life under control. I think she got the message loud and clear. I'm fine with her spending time with S, and I wouldn't try to stop her. But the poor decisions where he's involved are done, and while I will be playing it cool, I retain the authority to cut it all off. I hope I never have to do that.


Can you expand on this a bit? I am not sure what you mean. First, full custody is temporary. This means at some point she is going to come for 50/50 custody. Are you consulting with a custody attorney to make sure you have a legal standing for this?

Also, she has full visitation rights, but you can say no. I assume you mean that through this power of no you will try to control her decision-making. Is that what you are talking about? I assume you are talking about her having him around OM and the snakes. Again, you may want to consult a custody attorney because I am not sure OM having a criminal background (short of child molestation) nor a few reptiles in aquariums give you the "authority to cut it all off".

blackmac, I fear that you are going to try to use custody of your son in order to try to control your STBXW, and to punish her for things you don't like especially in relation to OM. That is not the right approach. Notice, I didn't even say not correct, though it is also not the correct approach if you ever hope to R with her someday. But it is also morally and ethically wrong to use your kids to get back at your WW. I hope I am reading all of this wrong, but it does seem that you are trying to exert control over her through your S.

Finally, I would be ready with a lawyer. I know you said you can't afford one, but I have a feeling, based on your STBXSiL's text message, that this fight is not over. (By the way, I would have advised you NOT to respond to STBXSiL but well done on just validating her in your response.) As she tells people her side of mediation she is going to get a lot of advice to get a lawyer and fight.

Last edited by Steve85; 09/20/18 12:27 PM.

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Can you expand on this a bit? I am not sure what you mean. First, full custody is temporary. This means at some point she is going to come for 50/50 custody. Are you consulting with a custody attorney to make sure you have a legal standing for this?


Sure. Since this was mediation, we negotiated the terms. She asked for 50/50. I said that would normally be fine, but because of a few issues I had concerns about S safety. The mediator wanted to know what points I had, I explained, and then W immediately said she would agree as long as it's not permanent. I said that was reasonable. No, I haven't consulted an attorney, however where we live, this is legal.

Quote
Also, she has full visitation rights, but you can say no. I assume you mean that through this power of no you will try to control her decision-making. Is that what you are talking about? I assume you are talking about her having him around OM and the snakes. Again, you may want to consult a custody attorney because I am not sure OM having a criminal background (short of child molestation) nor a few reptiles in aquariums give you the "authority to cut it all off".


I have no plans to try to control her decision making. I plan to let her make whatever decisions she wants. Pet snakes are fine. Pet venomous exotic snakes are a safety risk, and even with a permit they are illegal in the town, and even W admitted that the point was valid. The point wasn't to say "look what she is doing", it's to establish proof that she HAD done this stuff without thinking of S's safety. There were other points. Moving S around and getting evicted probably weighed far more heavily, tbh. As for OM, this is one OM of many. We had a standing court order that explicitly said NOT to have S around people she was hooking up with between 10 PM and 7 AM. She knowingly violated multiple rules in the order.

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blackmac, I fear that you are going to try to use custody of your son in order to try to control your STBXW, and to punish her for things you don't like especially in relation to OM. That is not the right approach. Notice, I didn't even say not correct, though it is also not the correct approach if you ever hope to R with her someday. But it is also morally and ethically wrong to use your kids to get back at your WW. I hope I am reading all of this wrong, but it does seem that you are trying to exert control over her through your S


I completely agree with you. This decision wasn't made to try to control W. It was solely made to ensure that one of us could look out for the well-being of S. And since she demonstrated that she was more interested in how she feels at any given moment, I stepped in and decided that I would be the adult and do whatever I have to to ensure that S has something stable in his life. I understand it's ethically wrong to use kids, but I have no intent to do that. I plan to not shake anything up unless there's a seriously good reason. I love W, but if I have to choose between making the right decisions for S's safety and well-being or R, I'm going with S. No question.

I completely understand how it sounds. I assure you that my intent isn't control of W. I don't want that. I want to be sure my S is safe.

Quote
Finally, I would be ready with a lawyer. I know you said you can't afford one, but I have a feeling, based on your STBXSiL's text message, that this fight is not over. (By the way, I would have advised you NOT to respond to STBXSiL but well done on just validating her in your response.) As she tells people her side of mediation she is going to get a lot of advice to get a lawyer and fight.


D court date is in 6 days. She couldn't get an attorney because she doesn't have the money. Nor do I. And since it was a negotiation, she could have said no. She freely chose to agree, and we both signed and notarized a contract stating that the decision was final and could not be revoked. That agreement is set now. So Wednesday, the judge will sign the final declaration, and it'll be enforceable.

She had the chance to fight it. She chose not to, and honestly it surprised the hell out of me.

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Stay strong blakmac! Sounds like you will come through well on the other side


Me - 38 W-37
S6
M 10 years T 13yrs
BD 3/18
W moves out 4/18
W files 7/18

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bm, I hope you are right. Just be ready for anything. The SiL's text is foretelling.


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Oh, SiL is vague ranting all over her fb. It's kind of silly.

She must not understand that mediation agreements are agreed upon by BOTH parties.

She's saying basically that I'm lying, being manipulative, beating W down...none of these things are true.

I didn't make the decisions she made.

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