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Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2806140
08/10/18 02:54 AM
08/10/18 02:54 AM
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Gerda Offline
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When I had trouble with my S13 last year, he had all these new friends and was running the streets and I could never find him -- it was so shocking because it was such a huge change from elementary school when all the moms knew each other and kept in contact and arranged parties, etc. -- but anyway I slowly but surely managed to get the number of each and every mom of his new friends and just started trying to make friends with them, have coffee, etc. And slowly I was able to get a handle on where he was most of the time through the other moms, and to kind of reach out for help at times.

Sounds like you are totally on top of it, but I was going to also suggest you could have an open house one day, like a pot luck brunch, and just invite all the parents of your kids' friends to hang out.

Also glad you were able to get perspective on the rest of it.

Today I once again heard my D9 telling my H that "if only Mama would let you take back (our business) with (his friend) then you could have money again." He had told her some weeks ago, as part of his recent campaign to justify his actions by feeding the kids with various rewrites of history, that I wouldn't let him "have it back." Meanwhile this is the biz I had to sell when he abandoned me to run it alone, he even got paid for his shares of the biz thought the biz was in huge debt; and then the buyers never paid me, so I have been in court for almost two years, as my own lawyer. My H decided one day this year that he wanted the biz back and could not understand any of the legal or financial reasons why this was not possible.

Well, the point is, I violated my own advice to you and told my D that I heard what she said to papa and that I had told her that that wasn't what happened and she was still talking about it, which causes problems. HOW HORRIBLE IS THAT?!!!!

Then I went into my room and beat my head against the wall, at least figuratively, for not trusting that God would put all lies to rest one day and just to beat myself up for being so wicked as to say that to my D. I feel so horrible about it. And it reminded me of your struggle to try to justify yourself and not appear as the bad one. It's a serious temptation, one I thought I was mastering but today realized I still struggling with.

You are doing great, sjohn!

Last edited by Gerda; 08/10/18 02:58 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2806224
08/10/18 03:46 PM
08/10/18 03:46 PM
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Posts: 208
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sjohns6 Offline OP
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Thanks Gerda. An open house sounds like a neat idea. My only issue is that the split between W and I is not common knowledge with all the parents. A couple of them know due to circumstances, and as time goes it will become clear to all, but if I do something like that now it would almost be an announcement that W and I are no longer together. I'm not sure if I'm quite ready for that. Maybe thats something I can work up to.

Thats a tough situation with your D and I know just how you feel. What I keep having to tell myself is that one interaction or conversation will not break things. We are humans and make mistakes...and we learn from them. If one interaction were going to ruin things, we would have been done with our situations long ago. We have just take today as an opportunity to do better than we did yesterday. Your story reminds me of something I am struggling with today regarding my family (FOO).

My sister is a high end hair stylist. The kind where women pay her a lot of money to do their hair and follow her to new salons if she changes salons. She makes quite a bit more money than I do, and I make a decent amount. Because of this, she always cuts our hair for free...either at one of our houses or at the salon. W and I have been together for 20 years, so she has been doing Ws hair for free for many years. I have sisters and W has brothers. For the last 20 years, my sisters have been like sisters to W, and her brothers have been like brothers to me. We are all really close. Since wife started MLC, she not only left me, but she distanced herself from my family and stopped talking to them. As a result, my family is very hurt by it. They not only get to see my family being torn apart and me being very hurt, but they are also losing a daughter/sister. Because of this, my sister does not want to see W. She does not cut her hair anymore, although I still take the kids to her and of course she still cuts my hair. There was not a discussion about it, it just kind of fell in to place like that. I guess W knows better than to try and sister would't if she did. My sister still loves her, but kind of hates her right now at the same time. She does not want to be fake with her. She doesn't want to act like nothing. Reconciliation between them is possible, but probably not any communication in the interim until a real discussion happens.

So, the kids will be going back to school soon and will need haircuts. My son contacted my sister about getting his hair cut. Sister was excited to hear from him and gave him a few times and said have your dad bring you up here. Son of course does not hear/read "dad" and think that it needs to be dad. On Wednesday W was picking kids up for her week and he mentions it with both of us there. For whatever reason, W doesn't seem to think too much about it saying, "I guess I could take you up there". Again, it is now her time with them. This puts me in a tight spot. I don't want to have to tell son that it isn't a good idea for mom to take you. I don't want my sister to have to tell him, or have to interact with W if she doesn't want to. So, at that time I just sidestep the conversation and say that its kind of late and my sister is working late. Its nice she offered for today, but lets just schedule something next week with her to make it easier.

Well, sister called me this morning and said that my son had called her yesterday and asked about getting hair cut today (today was one of the times she initially offered). Sister, not knowing the kids schedule said ok. She was asking me about where the kids were and if that meant that W would be bringing them. I tell her that they are with W so if they make plans for tonight then it would be W bringing them. My sister feel distraught over this. My sister has her house on the market and has people coming over throughout the day to look at it. I tell her to just tell S that it turns out that people are coming over to look at the house tonight and that it turns out that today is not a great day, and maybe we can schedule something in the next couple days. This excuse works well, except for one thing. I have plans to hang out with my sister tonight and her house viewings will be over by then. We will be lying to my son and doing the very thing he was wanting to come over for. I feel terrible about it. W is not the one discussing, son is so there isn't even much I can say to W about it. She is just willing to bring him. I hate it and am not sure I'm making the right decision. I have integrity and I feel like I am lying to my kids, even though I'm not even the one talking to them about it. And, I'm suggesting for my sister to lie to him. Its only a small fabrication of the truth to save feelings, but I'm a very honest person. I hate that I'm in a position like this. I know it will be fine, but I have to look at myself in the mirror and I like to live with integrity.


Me: 40 yrs
W: 38 yrs
Together: 21 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 14 yrs
Daughter: 13 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2806257
08/10/18 06:19 PM
08/10/18 06:19 PM
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Gerda Offline
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It's okay to lie to protect your son.

But I think you should not have fear about your W or worry about your sister. They are grown women and have to deal with it. The more forgiveness, the better for everyone, especially your kids. I think you should stop trying to control every thing that happens or keep the worlds so separate. Just let everyone deal with both consequences and encounters and don't take on so much responsibility. Your sister is being a little selfish, she can handle the encounter and it will be good for everyone to get over that. I think you need to surrender the times W is with the kids to W and stop trying to keep the worlds so separate. The kids don't want that and you are never going to be able to control things that tightly anyway. Let the kids see all the grown-ups loving unconditionally, hate the sin and not the sinner.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2806264
08/10/18 07:40 PM
08/10/18 07:40 PM
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sjohns6 Offline OP
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hmm...Thank you Gerda, you are absolutely right. It never really occurred to me that I didn't need to keep the peace and save everyone from each other. I wonder why, it seems so obvious.

So, yeah...Ws days are her days. If my sister sees her, I'm sure she can handle it. And even if she can't and things get ugly between them, they are adults and that isn't my relationship to mange. I think I just try to take ownership of it because I am the one that brought W in to their lives. Even though that is the case, I am not the one managing the relationship, they are. I needed that perspective today. Sometimes its hard to see the forest for the trees.


Me: 40 yrs
W: 38 yrs
Together: 21 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 14 yrs
Daughter: 13 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2807477
08/17/18 02:12 AM
08/17/18 02:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 208
Texas
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sjohns6 Offline OP
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missing my wife today...


Me: 40 yrs
W: 38 yrs
Together: 21 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 14 yrs
Daughter: 13 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2807497
08/17/18 05:06 AM
08/17/18 05:06 AM
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Gordie Offline
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Sjohn6

Did something happen to make you miss her

Or just a feeling


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2807504
08/17/18 05:49 AM
08/17/18 05:49 AM
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Gerda Offline
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Oh, sjohn, I feel the pain in those four simple words!

It's funny how much I used to miss my H. I don't know if I am fully detached or if I just can't remember the real H, but I never miss him anymore. I miss being happy and feeling loved though. That feeling is a deep ache.

I think it is a sign of your depth and ability to love against all odds that you miss her. But I am sorry it hurts.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2807589
08/17/18 04:06 PM
08/17/18 04:06 PM
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FaceMan Offline
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I feel your pain. I can relate to exactly how it feels.

I miss my wife every day.

I can even be in the same room and miss her, she is so detached.

Does the pain ever go away?

Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2807629
08/17/18 08:20 PM
08/17/18 08:20 PM
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Posts: 208
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sjohns6 Offline OP
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Thank you guys.

I don't think so, Gordie. I guess I did have somewhat of a normal phone conversation with W. It was a rather uneventful call, but she was pleasant. It was mainly just about kid stuff, but just the sound of her voice reminded me of before. So, maybe just a feeling, but not just out of the blue.

Like you Gerda, I have slipped more in to the missing of the closeness and comfortability of our relationship and family unit rather than missing her directly. After almost 2 years of the way she is now, I start to forget what it felt like to be happy and loved by my W. My W has never really monstered at me verbally. She never gave me a list of reasons why I was at fault for things and never really condemned things I had done. For me it was just cold shoulder, distant, loss of intimacy, EA, and then moving out. No verbal blaming. So, I guess, having a conversation where she isn't being distant and cold turned in to somewhat of a trigger for me. Not a PTSD trigger for panic and anxiety, but a trigger for remembering the W that I love and miss. Not much to be done about it but recognize it and move past it.

I agree FM, I've had plenty of times where I missed her while in the same room with her. Its like a death of someone close to you, but worse. Death is a natural occurrence and is the end result for all of us. Losing someone is hard, but there is closure to it. This is similar but fresh every day without closure. Well, thats how it felt in the beginning, anyways. But, it gets better. I think the pain will eventually go away, but if we never reconcile I assume that there will be some sort of regret or longing that will never completely go away.

I'm not sure what exactly is good to share with the kids. I try not to dump too much on them, but I also want to be open with them about things. Last night after talking to W on the phone, D and I were in the kitchen while I prepared dinner. I told D that I missed her mom. I told her that I try not to let my interactions with her mom affect me, but sometimes it was hard because I have loved her my whole life and sometimes I miss her...but that I am working on being better about that. She replied with, I know dad, don't worry, it's normal. I love my daughter...

Last edited by sjohns6; 08/17/18 08:21 PM.

Me: 40 yrs
W: 38 yrs
Together: 21 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 14 yrs
Daughter: 13 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Re: making it about me... [Re: sjohns6] #2807642
08/17/18 10:27 PM
08/17/18 10:27 PM
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Gordie Offline
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Sjohn6

I struggle with what to share with the kids too

I err on saying nothing

But d b coach encouraged me to be a little more open with the older kids

To acknowledge the awkwardness of the present

My hope for the future

And reassurance that I am not going anywhere


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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