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Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2806216
08/10/18 03:18 PM
08/10/18 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 704
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focus22 Offline
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Originally Posted by DonH
I appreciate your story Focuss - I'm just not sure how it relates to me?????? I know that anyone who has had to go through living with an addict is scared by and from it. However, I don't think I'm even close to that here - other than my own personal history with opioid addiction - now in remission for coming up on 9 years.



Apologies for not explaining better, I'm a bit zonked...working two jobs in two different cities this month, so I'm pretty tired.

I think you mentioned some red flags, and comments that other people had made, and also talked about how easy things seemed to be? Did I remember that rightly?

That resonated with me. Of course, when I met XH, he didn't have 'alcoholic' tattooed across his forehead, and neither of us were thinking about M at the time. We just seemed to have such a good time together, and I was flattered by his attention. Before long, all his friends knew about me, and welcomed me into the fold like and old friend. I felt very accepted and very much at ease with all of his friends. I was super easy going, very go with the flow and just seeing how things were unfolding and enjoying myself.

At this point we were just going out (a lot) and having a good time. He seemed incredibly socially at ease with everyone he met, straight off, and would be the life and soul of the party whenever we went out. All of my friends were charmed by his extrovert nature. Then before long, two years had passed like this. I met his parents, the rest of his family, he met mine, all that kind of stuff. We never fell out over anything, argued or disagreed.

We were both young, so I thought that his drinking was because of this - a hangover from student days if you like. And I thought that he would somehow, at some point 'grow out of it' and become more of an adult...more responsible. Of course, he never really did. And it got to the point where other people pointed out how much he drank and how irresponsible he was/could be. This was years later though.

And the never disagreeing, or arguing, or falling out over things was also to do with being conflict avoidant (both of us) as much as being live and let live and easy going. Neither of us ever really learnt to talk about our feelings. Well, I mentioned how his drinking would affect me, but he just carried on as before and we never really learnt to talk about these things in an adult, constructive way (even if it meant agreeing to disagree). So you could say he was very selfish in that way, refusing to even consider another point of view than his own. But that's the benefit of hindsight.

Does that make more sense?


Me: 48, XH: 42
T: 18 years, M: 15 years

EA/PA 1: 6/2012
EA/PA 2: from autumn 2012-present

BD: 5/2013
ILYBNILWY BD & left: 10/2015

OW conceived: 8/2016
Born: 4/2017

H filed: 7/2017
D final: 28/12/2017
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2806592
08/13/18 06:08 PM
08/13/18 06:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,251
Midwest
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DonH Offline OP
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DonH  Offline OP
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Well, ya know it had to happen sooner or later... In a recent post I spoke about how Wild Girl and I have not yet even had a disagreement or argument/fight... I think that run came to an end on Friday - although I don't think it's that simple. Of course what I'm about to say has to include mind reading to a degree but I've also now seen her enough and gotten to know her enough over about 10 weeks to start seeing patterns. As I've always said, it's patterns and trends that I pay attention to.

So, what happened? I'm not totally certain. We had a great time last Monday as we were at our State Fair. I performed and was "working" for about 5 hours but then from about 4 PM to 11 PM we hung out and had a great time. I took her home and all was well. She said I could stay but I elected to go back home since the girls were sleeping and she had work early in the morning. She hugly thanked me for taking her all the way home (if you know what I mean) and all was good.

Thing is, while at the fair, she met some of my friends. I hung out with some of hers for several hours including her parents, aunt, etc. In the days that followed, both of us got a lot of feedback. A few of my female friends (who are going on the cruise) sent her friend requests on Facebook. Others told me how much they liked her. She got the same. Her friends we hung out with really liked me and told her so. Her mom then told a good friend of hers how happy she is that her daughter is dating me. My friends have decided she is going on the cruise whether I've decided or not. She is way a lot of fun - there is no two ways about it so from their view it's just another totally fun girl to hang out with. I just really get the feeling this again has scared her. Her mom saying she's so happy she's "dating" me when she's trying to play it off as we are casual friends who hang out, etc. I think she's feeling pressured and scared.

So, again what happened Friday? Well, she again called me Wednesday night, Thursday night and again Friday night - not me - HER. I could tell something was "off" right away on Friday. She was snippy, back to "I'm not sure about Sunday, plans might change" - you may remember she's pulled this several times now - seems to get really nervous and needs an out. By her own admission she has anxiety so I try to understand it. She then said something that I misunderstood and as honest as I can be, I may have said something insensitive - but not at all on purpose. Her tone immediately changed, she got very quiet and said "that was really rude" I'm like, oh, no that's not what I meant. But she was not having it. Now was this something to the level that went on with Ginger the same night and I'm just not getting it? Yeah, I guess it could be. She's just never acted this way. She after a minute of this said "I'll call you back". Of course that never happened. I sent a text again apologizing and saying that I may have blurted out something that I should not have but in no way meant it the way it was taken. I also suggested that she should know I've never said or done something to be mean or hurt someone, why would I now out of the blue?

I believe with all of my being she manufactured this because she needed distance. I swear it's the case. Things are going too good, everyone is saying so and she's not used to this at all. Remember right at the beginning I said I thought she was "broken"? This is what I meant. I left her alone on Saturday and did not hear anything. I can't remember if she texted me or me her on Sunday. We had a few exchanges with her giving me one or two words. "Yes", "Early" etc. I'm like, ya know, I'm way too old for this BS and I'm not playing these passive aggressive games so I just disengaged. Four hours later here come some pictures of a band friend of mine that was performing at an event a mile from her house. Then normal texts again with detail. She was leaving for family vacation "early" today with her daughters, parents, and other family. She will be gone until Saturday and I'll be leaving tomorrow or Wednesday. Might be good timing.

It's the pattern of this that bothers me the most. I'd say this is the third time she's felt the need to distance like this but the first time she picked a fight to do it. That said, I almost felt like she was trying to pick a fight with me a month ago - as in nearly 30 days to the day. Anyone see where I'm going with this? Things ended up fine but when she got home both of her daughters said she was really crabby. Do not flame me girls but is this PMS? I know you all hate it when guys call out behavior like this over PMS but I've had at least one GF a long, long time ago that I knew her cycle better than she did just by her behavior. And yes, she is right in the window for it - warning me about next Sunday.

So I'm just dropping back this week and will let her come to me. We are supposed to be together this coming Sunday, Monday and Tuesday including tickets to an event on Monday. She was already hedging on the Sunday, saying her vacation plans could change and they might stay longer. I would hope she's not going to bail on everything. If she does that might be it for me. I can live with no Sunday but I'm not burning over $100 in tickets for a slight disagreement that I've apologized for at least three times now.

Sadly, it makes me think, THIS is EXACTLY why I've not had a GF in so long. I hate this crap and really am too old for it. Just be honest with me or perhaps moreso with yourself. I know I can't know for sure but I am sooooo confident that I'm correct in my assessment about what is going on here. Now, that said, perhaps I was getting too attached as well - much on her lead. Again, it's not me calling daily, suggesting things like the three days this coming Sunday-Tuesday - it was HER idea. Yet, I am excited to see her and tell her so. Usually I'm the one needing distance - perhaps my comfort has come across as too desperate or needy or interested? Or is reality hitting her in the face and she's not ready for it? I also think she's not totally over the guy she was in love with her went back to his wife. Their baby is due anytime now. Or perhaps the baby arrived??????????? As for me she's constantly said that pretty much everything fits other than the age difference continues to bother her. This is also consistant with what she's told her friends - really likes me, get along great, etc. but the age difference bothers her. While the age thing is a concern it doesn't really "bother" me. What really does concern me, however, is the need for a 42 year old to be most attracted to and want to be with guys 10 years younger than her. What's that about? Again, I see that as dating boys rather than dating a man.

So I'm pulling back. What really stinks is I was told again last night they need names and DOB for the cruise. This time the head guy called our band leader for this info. They are getting serious. Of course the band leader followed with "What's the problem, you're taking Wild Girl, the girls (wives and girlfriends) already have decided she's your girl." I will feel like a total loser again if I have to say, nope sorry, WG is not going and I have to try to find someone else. It's at this point they will likely try to place me with another single member of another band - something I simply WILL NOT DO to the point I just won't go. That's PTSD for me as the last cruise I RAN a few years ago (nothing to do with music) I didn't go on for lack of someone to go with me. This part makes me really sad.

Still, I'm getting ahead of myself here. It's not even close to playing out like that and I don't think it will. I truly think this is just a natural speed bump. It's how she and I handle it that will spell things out. And there you go - a poopy Monday update to add to the 4 or 5 really good ones I've had. I guess that's still not bad - one real pull back in 10 weeks along with 2 minor ones. We will see what this week brings and what happens with what I thought were firm plans for next Sunday-Tuesday.


DonH
Midwest
Me 55
WAW-EXW 54
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
3 actual GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2807689
08/18/18 02:14 PM
08/18/18 02:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,450
Mid-West
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Painter Offline
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Hi Don!

I haven't stopped by here in a long time, but had to comment after reading your updates. I'm glad that you have meet someone who interests you and that you have a great time with!

I think you've met a highly sensitive person. A few things you mention - anxiety, feeling guided by a relative who has passed (if I read that right), picking up on what people are like quickly - all sounds familiar. If I'm right, her hesitation and hedging could have to do with the anxiety, not knowing if she'll feel up to going out or traveling. It sounds like you are at the same pace and that's very comfortable.

Enjoy the ride and don't worry or speculate too much!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: Painter] #2807691
08/18/18 02:28 PM
08/18/18 02:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,093
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kml Offline
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kml  Offline
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K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,093
Quote
Sadly, it makes me think, THIS is EXACTLY why I've not had a GF in so long. I hate this crap


I've often said, I'm glad I don't have to date women , they're a PITA.

My women friends are limited to those who are more straightforward and blunt types like myself.

Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2807701
08/18/18 03:49 PM
08/18/18 03:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,298
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JujuB Offline
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JujuB  Offline
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Ok she sounds a bit like me with the sensitivity and with being a little bit messed up emotionally and with relationships.

I do believe hornones play a role especially when a woman is not entirely sure. This is true in my case.

I am just gonna offer this up based on me.... maybe she feels like you have a lot to offer her. But is not happy about something more superficial (you mentioned age) logically, this makes no sense to her. You offer her a lot. A good guy with stability. It would be stupid for her to not go for you. She knows this. But she is now on hyper alert for anything you do. Cause that would justify ending something that else wise is good for her. But another factor is there that is bothering her about you.

What was the comment? Or what did it pertain to. Sometimes women are also more sensitive to certain topics then men.

Another thing i note with you and my own experience and gingers... why is it that men like emotionally unavailable women? Im not emotionally available. Im admittedly being selfish and horrible post divorce. I have made superficial efforts and charm. No problems attracting men. But with my ex i was opposite. Very dedicated. And loyal and invested and he ran. Ugh...but i am bringing this up cause it sounds like you are going for soneone not truly available.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2807703
08/18/18 04:31 PM
08/18/18 04:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,298
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JujuB Offline
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JujuB  Offline
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I guess what im saying is, maybe shes just not completely into you. She knows she should be because you are a great guy and will be good to her. For sone reason this attracts you more to her, then someone that is actually into you.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2807735
08/19/18 12:38 AM
08/19/18 12:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,251
Midwest
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DonH Offline OP
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DonH  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,251
Midwest
Juju I agree with some of your observations but not all. She is not emotionally unavailable- at least I don't see that. She seems into me and tells her friends so. When we first went out she told me I was outside of her box. She's dated mostly younger, tall farm boys. Her last BF was 34. Most of the guys she didn't "date" she admits. I think there are many things. She thought i may be a player. She's been dumped by guys who go to another girl - like Ginger. She told me early on she's continuing to date me because I make her laugh show her a good time and treat her better and nicer than most guys. She then said after our third or so date that the more she gets to know me the more attractive I become. There is huge sexual attraction on both sides. Her daughters and parents like me a lot. So take away whatever baggage she has and things are good I don't think either of us thought it would go this far and thus long.

Hope that sheds light yet then what else is up? Im not sure. She well may be looking for an excuse to run since she's scared. The comment I made was on the phone. She told me her mom told a friend of hers how proud she is of her and happy she is dating me. I blurted out without thinking "why would she be proud of you?" I really meant why would she be proud of you for dating me. I'd never say there is no reason to be proud of her for other things - never. I apologized hugely but she still stuck with that was rude. So now she's on vacation with her family and claiming her parents like her siblings much more than her. Said it's always been that way. She told her dad and he said she was acting crazy. Her ex put her down. So knowing this my comment really could have hurt her but man I'm only human! I miss spoke. I've never said anything like that - even kidding. She is almost like get them before they get to you.

So has she just pulled it together these two months and now the real her is coming out? I know she has the baggage but figured she sees I'm not a player etc. still i don't see this being a love connection but still think we can spend more time together and who knows. It just is a turn off. I'm still willing to give her a chance here but won't put up with this forever. Again Its been good and a lot of fun for the most part other than the last 10 days has just been different. If this is the real her I won't keep good my. If she had an off week and it dies not repeat again soon I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I've not connected thus well with someone in a year or two.

I think the next few days will tell. I'm fully intend to discuss it with her. I just hope she does not bail. It's odd to me how she can say we had such a great time on i day then do a week of being distant. Then again we are both on vacations and both have been busy with only texts. I'll know more Sunday afternoon.


DonH
Midwest
Me 55
WAW-EXW 54
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
3 actual GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2807838
08/20/18 12:39 PM
08/20/18 12:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 97
Australia
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devvo Offline
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Posts: 97
Australia
I'd say your instincts are spot on - she is being unreasonable. Even if it is PMS, do you really want to go through this (and much, much worse as she starts to feel safer) every month? She's fun, yes, but is she going to be somebody you can live with and tolerate for a long time?


Me:54 H:54
S:21 S:19
M:24 T:26
BD:Aug 15
D:Sep 17
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2808296
08/22/18 07:55 PM
08/22/18 07:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,251
Midwest
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DonH Offline OP
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DonH  Offline OP
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Okay so here we go. Just the fact that it's Wednesday before I'm posting means I'll likely have good news - and I do. But wow, there is so much here and so much to learn from - at least for me to learn from. I'll lead with the biggest news. Things are back to normal with Wild Girl and I finally did it - I have my cruise date. She is beyond excited and likely renewing her passport this week. smile

So what all happened? I'm not sure and it's complicated to be sure. I was right about some things, wrong about others. I'm very happy how I handled it. It remains to be seen if this is something that will repeat and is the real Wild Girl or if it was just timing and happened as an occasional thing? I'll be watching for a repeat there is no doubt. I had already said we had not had a single disagreement or fight in the 10+ weeks since we started going out. So I guess one in that time is nothing to get too excited about. It clearly worked out well and has both of us understanding the other much better and has clearly brought us closer - though I'm a bit more hesitant and pulling back slightly - but that again is me as the closer she gets, the more cautious I will get.

Okay, so my comment really did hurt her that badly. Should it have? Well on balance, I don't understand it fully, but other pieces I do. It was not an act on her part it was not her trying to manufacture, etc. I think other things going on in her life, including hearing her ex love had his baby, effected it. To her credit I do have to say she never got mean or pissy or inappropriate. It was never anything like "you're a f'n [censored], I don't want to see your ugly face again" type things. Instead she texted, "that really hurt and I don't feel like talking now. Have a nice night." I do have to give her some points for that. I think she employed more game playing and such later on with short texts, etc. Although even that, I found out later was also partly in response to my short texts back to her. However, in person, it was clear how much this bothered her. It was written all over her face and body language. This is why I so badly wanted to confront her in person and not on the phone and certainly not on text. She freely admits that her ex H did this to her and she believes somewhat her parents did was well. Her Ex TRIED to hurt her. He purposely said really mean things to try to tare her down. That's not at all what I did. I just misspoke. However, she thought I was just trying to get out of it by claiming I misspoke when I really deep down felt that way. I clearly do not but I get after what's gone on why she'd feel that way. It is yet again why I told all of you here I thought she was "broken" when I met her. This is that broken part coming out. She has such little selfasteam and just feels like "why would anyone be proud of her." So when I said "Why would your mom be proud of you?" without adding in "just for dating me" it really, really hurt her. All she heard and all she kept replaying over and over was "why would your mom be proud of you?" Those are her issues and I totally get that. It's why I say she is broken - and I'm not a fixer.

I really think she is so afraid of being hurt that this is why she won't admit she is "dating" but also wants to get them before they get her. She admitted it's not only with me she tries to play down the dating thing, it's with everyone. It was very interesting and nice to see her open up to me about some of these things. I really do think she has been waiting for me to break up with her or change into someone else - so much that any little thing triggers her. So if we are not really dating, we can't break up so she can try to make it no big deal - when really, it clearly is. That's her issues, not mine. It's part of why I still think this will never turn deeply serious, but that's also what keeps me "safe."

I waited until a few hours before she was leaving to bring up the cruise. This was mostly because I was still not sure but also because I didn't want that to effect or change anything. Interestingly enough even after that she asked "What happens if one of us meets someone else or something?" I of course took that to mean, what if she meets someone else. After I further questioned her on that, it because clear what she really was saying and asking was "Are you going to find someone else and drop me?" That was clearly her worry. I think it still kinda is as she's hesitant to tell anyone yet. The broken part of her thinks, this is too good to be true, he's going to find someone better and tell me he wants to go with her. That's what has happened to her in the past with guys. Does this not sound like at least a few people who have been here on the boards with us? I assured her I don't play those games. I would not be that mean to invite someone on something like this than tell them I changed my mind. I said if we start fighting or no longer want to see each other that's a different story but short of that I'm not looking for someone better for this. So on the outside, she has this tough exterior going, saying we are just hanging out, and everything that goes with it, when on the inside I really do think she's thinking, I really like this guy I hope he doesn't hurt me like the others have. By the time she left it was clear the old Wild Girl was back and more open and clearly even more connected to me. Of course, then love avoidant Don kicks in. Typically I have an urge to reach out after we spend a day or two together like this but this time, I was very content. Of course she called and we had another deeper conversation versus just our silly fun banter.

I am very happy how I handled this and somewhat happy with how she did. I could have escalated things and was even suggested by a few to just call her on her crap right away, not wait, and not let her get away with anything. I've never really heeded this statement I'm about to make but it really hit me in this case - you never know what someone else is going through that is effecting how they are acting. Ever hear people say that? "He's acting this way because of what he's going through." That was clearly the case here and what I think a good partner does is they are there for that person. That's what I tried to do. All that said, I also told her very clearly that she should not mistake my kindness, compassion and understanding for desperation or weakness. I was very clearly about this and I could tell she knew I was not playing. I also told her that the time may come when I'm going through a rough patch and I fully expect her to do the same for me. That's what being a couple and R's are all about - even though we are still at the friends stage and I still just don't see a LTR here but both of us are clearly in each other's life at this point in time for some reason. It's almost like she is relieved that I asked her to go on this rather big event five months from now - like she had the revelation of OMG, he really does like me and really will stick around for awhile and not dump me like these other guys have. She may have been waiting for the other shoe to drop - and will no doubt now think that shoe will drop at the end of January after the cruise is over. Who knows. But for now, if we do end up going, and I see absolutely no reason we won't, she will end up being the longest dating period or whatever you want to call it I've had since my D 12 years ago. An 8 month R of some sort I guess. Good way to get my feet wet again if nothing else.

I do have another pretty cool story about two friends that I'll share next time. I also have all sorts of sub stories that could come out of the last days and week. Just so many learning lessons. I just don't want to make this post any longer right now. So there you go... it's clearly all still to be continued... for at least another 5 months it might appear. And, perhaps best of all, you guys don't have to listen to me b@tch and complain about that stupid cruise anymore!!! LOL

Last edited by job; 08/22/18 09:02 PM. Reason: edited a word

DonH
Midwest
Me 55
WAW-EXW 54
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
3 actual GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: Getting Back to my Old Self [Re: DonH] #2808298
08/22/18 09:01 PM
08/22/18 09:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 25,425
Maryland
job Offline

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Posts: 25,425
Maryland
I am glad that things have worked out and the cruise is on. I think you handled the situation w/class.

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