Gordie 21 going with my gut

[Gordie]

So w has been speaking very directly about enjoying the one on one and family time of late

And very indirectly about the things I have wanted

The first tiny hints of regret over OMs

And the most subtle suggestion that we should sleep in the same bedroom again

I have listened and let her say as much as she is comfortable saying but haven’t pushed for more

I of course want her to open up more

But know from experience this has to be at her pace and that when I press for more direct communication she retreats

All advice welcome

[scoobs7]

Your such a patient man. I wish i had your strength. Your doing well, keep it up, you doing brilliantly.

[Kyh]

I have listened and let her say as much as she is comfortable saying but haven’t pushed for more

Gordie, this is interesting as long as it’s genuine. I think what you posted above was perfect. Not pushing and letting her talk as much as she is comfortable with gives her a safe place. How are you doing? I’m sure it’s not easy for you.

[Gerda]

Gordie!!!! I don't understand why you are asking for advice at the end of a post where you describe the most perfect behavior a spouse could offer for an MLC on the way out of the tunnel.

You did everything perfectly.

In your writing, I always have this impression of this calm, totally unneurotic always-listening man with a beautiful soul and a joyful outlook on life -- I sort of think of you like Saint Francis, maybe even including the sandals! You know the prayer, "Stay awake, for you do not know when..." Well that to me is you, you are always AWAKE in that spiritual way. Even when you are suffering.

That is so inspiring to me.

I get a tiny glimmer in this post of yours that you are wanting to start pushing and that the advice you are asking for is just for us to say, no, don't push yet.

Not to get racy here, but there are times when waiting and going slow can be very exciting. So I would take that metaphor and run with it. Instead of seeing this waiting as possibly painful agony, see it as delicious agony.

Maybe if you read Hosea again -- Hosea waits on line with the other men who want to buy his W!!!! Talk about patience! But in doing so, he gets closer to God, and I imagine that after that kind of trust and self surrender and self sacrifice, and after some strangeness and awkwardness (what you are going through now and maybe for some time longer) the physical and emotional reunions with his actual W are equally mind-blowing.

That is what you are doing. Seems to me you are getting close, so just keep giving her a long long leash.

P.S. I had told myself that when I had to start a new thread, I had to write the faith story you asked for as the first post. I am not sure I have the time or gumption to do it with what is going on, but Job just told me to start a new thread, and I think it might be one of those times where I have to say yes to something my will says no to!

[DnJ]

Gordie - Things are really starting to look up. Many of those small incremental positive steps that MWD spoke about in a solutions journal.

Letting her speak as much or as little as she wants is great. Continue to not push. Think squirrel and how fast she’d run away.

Speaking directly about enjoying one on one and family time, very good.

Indirectly about things you want, you are at least in the mix again. Hints of regret over OM, man that is going to be a big one for her. Stay quiet, and stay patient. She is moving along.

As for the subtle suggestion to sleep in the same bedroom again. I am not even going to ask if you want too, I know you do. It is a matter of when is the correct time.

I recall a post of your’s (slightly tongue in cheek) about how you hoped for a reconciliation full of passionate love making and how you were unfortunately on a different path. It does look like you are a bit further down that path.

I also remember some advice from your coach about make her beg for it.

My take is be patient and let her discuss it with you when she wants too. Be prepared to go as far as she wants in the discussion with out pushing for more - that also applies to the physical aspects of this paticular side of things.

Too vague? Probably not.

You know what your goals are. How you picture your restored marriage - I don’t think it is sleeping in separate rooms. There are many steps along the way. Getting back in the same bedroom is a big one.

Keep unwinding your defences that you had to build up. Keep slowly letting your guard down. Keep slowly letting her in. You will have emotions no doubt about that, keep them away from her. Act as if. Proceed as if you know that the outcome will be exactlly what you want it to be. Listen to your deep beliefs and not your fleeting emotions.

That goes not just for the negative emotions. If thing continue, espically when one bedroom is established, I imagine there will be a rush of positive emotions - don’t get lost in it. Continue to be patient and not push.

Gordie you are doing great. It must be hard to keep expectations at zero. In truth I think maybe having a few tiny expectations of W is proper now. Nothing huge, just little things that she knows you expect of her. Something she can strive towards keeping. Perhaps this is to soon, I do not know, only you can decide.

As always, and with much respect.

DnJ

[DnJ]

I forgot about the food thing.

Thanks for sharing that Gordie, I was curious too.

There are many hot button topics that people get very defensive over - politics, reglion, parenting, and food - to name a few. The fact that some people will shame someone for eating at McDonalds because they think it is unhealthy for that person. They think they know better, and people should just listen to their wise council. Ha! I just push my own button!

I do share Kyh’s assessment. Children have powerful memories tied to food. Eating is something we do a lot, and as a kid I recall eat you vegetables there good for you. So if it is something traumatic, just another thing for the addled MLCer to reconcile.

I totally laughed our loud when sjohns6 said he let his W have his half of the brussel sprouts. I am still giggling about that.

Have a great day.

[Gordie]

Scoobs not always as patient as I want to be but doing my best

Kyh I do think this is genuine and as things have been moving very slowly in the same direction and actions have spoken louder than words

Gerda thank you yes you are right I want someone to remind me that I have to keep taking this very slowly and at her pace despite my own desire to speed things up so live the reminder that a slow build up can be more exciting and rewarding

More later

[AndrewP]

Hi Gordie. I've been meaning to write to you on one particular topic for a while now but haven't.

You posted a while ago that your wife seems to be jealous of the attention you've been giving to the kids. I believe that this is probably a very real thing and something you should give some thought to. Since (as usual) I don't have much in the way of constructive advice for you, I'll tell you a story instead.

My daughter and I have always been very close - from the day she was born in fact. As she got older, she was my "adventure buddy" and we would do things together. At one point, my son started taking martial arts lessons on Saturday mornings. So to give my wife a break and allow her to luxuriate in a completely empty house, I'd take both kids in to town. Drop off son at his lessons, have breakfast at a local diner with my daughter, do the banking, pick up son and come home. My daughter and I both treasured those mornings spent together talking and doing the mundane.

After some time, my wife - perhaps projecting - told me that I was favouring one child over the other and that I should take my son out to breakfast every other week. He'd stopped martial arts at that point I believe. It was a painful exercise. My son is not a morning person. I learned that I would only get surly or angry responses to conversational questions until he'd eaten. I joked with him that I learned to keep my mouth shut until he'd had potatoes.

When both kids had moved out, my wife took over their place for breakfast, moving it to Sunday mornings. It became a tradition for us. One where I from time to time felt taken for granted for / taken advantage of as she would just assume that we would go out and that I would pay from my limited pocket money (we at this point were budgeting fairly carefully).

So - I wouldn't underestimate the power of a mother's jealousy of her children in creating tension in a relationship.

Just my 2 cents and perhaps something to discuss with your coach.

[bttrfly]

I have listened and let her say as much as she is comfortable saying but haven’t pushed for more

I of course want her to open up more

But know from experience this has to be at her pace and that when I press for more direct communication she retreats

All advice welcome

be honest.
be true to yourself.
keep validating.
keep being your awesome self.

you're doing great!
xoxoxo

[Gordie]

Gerda and thank you for the reminder of Hosea which is beautiful on so many levels



DNJ I find it amazing how you are so thoughtful about dang near everything I think we are around the same age maybe you are a little older but I feel you are so much wiser

So yes need to take things slowly as Gerda also said not too vague and letting the guard down also very slowly this is very tricky as I have started to feel what others here have written about that when the walls come down a little those feelings of LBS anger and resentment also well up

I read a slightly tongue in cheek book called f*** feelings which was intentionally provactife not in that feelings are bad but as you remind they are all over the place and not good guides to life

I think there is a difference in the going with my gut title which is rooted in deeper beliefs and convictions than fleeting feelings that if you know what I mean

And yes trying to keep expectstions low still

Re food that one really surprised me so was clearly a blind spot and a reminder of the futility of mind reading and attempting to pre emptively fix what I think is broken



Andrew yes Butterfly and your comments about jealousy re children is another eye opener and have been thinking more about that one where I can see looking back more clearly

I think there has been damage done in her wanting a fatherly love she lacked and I could not provide to her despite my own intuitive efforts to do so but that I did provide to our children

Not sure how to dig out of that hole but not going there now but awareness of the issue is a big first step