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Agree with job and DNJ

W thinks I am a know it all

DB coach suggested a great 180

I actively practice being a know nothing

So

You fixed the water pressure

Awesome

How did you do that

O you took out the water filter

What does a water filter do

How interesting

Important thing is to be genuinely curious and interested

Be prepared for a potentially long and detailed discussion


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Hey Gerda. Thank you for asking the question about validating because I too struggle with that and Gordie, DNJ, and Jobs responses helped me too. My issue is that over the years, W has never really been one to open up about things so its always been me initiating intimate talks about things. Not in a bad way (R talks and whatnot), just me asking her about her day and how she feels about this, that, and the other. I think because of that, I've gotten in to the habit of being the one to talk...so when she does talk, I'm not used to listening without interjecting. I've been practicing it too. I think I'm getting better at it but it is still a conscious effort.

I totally agree about how to approach the filter thing. Guys like to explain things. You are right that if you question his decision it will probably backfire, but if you just ask him questions like Gordie posed, the reaction will be different. But like Gordie said, be prepared for a long and detailed response. Just try not to let your eyes glaze over while hes explaining it. wink

I'm really glad you got some time away. It sounds like it did you some good. You deserve it...hope you get some more soon!!

Last edited by sjohns6; 07/19/18 04:28 PM.

Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Gerda Offline OP
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Thanks, everyone, for this excellent advice. I am going to try it and, to keep some clarity in my foggy brain, I will imagine a little miniature set of you on my mantle watching the whole thing. Little teeny DnJ, Gordie, sjohn and Job the size of wine corks sitting on the mantle and shouting encouragement at me if I start telling things instead of asking things.

It's interesting how all three of you guys say the same thing about men liking to be asked questions. That makes so much sense with all I have learned about the male need for respect during my stand. It would be so nice to be able to do that regularly and without so much strategizing. Generally I am afraid to do too much of this -- or really just to talk to him at all -- because the talk always turns to demands for money -- I mean, we could start out talking about anything from strawberry shortcake to the war in Syria and the conversation will within a few minutes arrive at blaming me for his poverty and demanding money.

Also my main concern about this is that he has no idea what the water filter does. He already told me we don't need it because removing it "didn't change the color of the water." I think he thinks it's just to pull out rust or something. So the explanation may not get me anywhere unless it gives him the idea of looking it up.

Anyway, I will let you know what happens! Thanks, as ever, for the support.

Last edited by Gerda; 07/20/18 04:24 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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You can always plant the seed of what the filter is for. You could say something like: "h, isn't the filter used to filter out sediment and other stuff that could be harmful to us when we use the water? Do you think we need to investigate this a bit further?"


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hey Gerda, how are things with you? Did you ever have the water filter conversation?

Here's another guy tip...if you ask and we don't know, we may or may not give a BS answer to hide the fact that we don't know, but then we go look it up so that we can give a more educated answer next time. We love being asked, but we love being knowledgeable and right too. He took that filter out on his own accord being lazy, but its another thing to be asked to explain how something works. If he doesn't know he may give you a line of BS that you know isn't true but he will most likely then educate himself on it.

I read somewhere that there are 2 main things that men and women need to feel validated in a relationship, and the 2 aren't the same for men and women. Women need financial and emotional stability. For emotional, they need to feel heard and understood. Not necessarily for a man to fix her issues, but to listen and understand her. Financially she needs to feel secure. The man doesn't need to be the one to provide that stability necessarily, but she needs to have it. A man needs to feel respected and desired sexually. Those 2 things for each gender can vary from person to person as to what satisfies those needs, but those are the basic 2 elements that keep things healthy. So, asking your husband questions like that are a form of making him feel respected...and it helps to accomplish the goal of getting that filter back in without a big argument. I don't know that your H deserves you respect, but you've been standing for 5 years now so I assume you still want to be the lighthouse smile

You get any more free time lately? It seemed to do you good.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
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Gerda Offline OP
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sjohn, thank you so much for checking in on me. I read your post a few days ago here and was so happy that someone was thinking of me! It's lonely out here in LBS land.

I have so much to say and think that I have been writing nothing at all, overwhelmed. But I did do a huge clean-out of my room (from which H has been absent for almost five years now), getting rid of millions of papers and just trying to make things uncluttered and free, as I am trying to be now.

About the filter -- I totally chickened out and haven't dealt with it at all. My H is so hyper sensitive that I am positive that anything I ask he will interpret as telling him what to do. He knows that I am always thinking and he is always furious at how capable and knowledgable I am so he will not even believe that I am asking for real. But I am looking for a window. In the meantime, he stopped going to our cabin, claiming he is too broke but I think maybe it's too lonely, who knows. I know I need to do something very soon or risk big problems as we have had a lot of renters there.

But something about your post really did hit me hard and I have been thinking about it. It's what you said about women needing financial security. I can't tell you how powerful is my PTSD about his demands for money or his demands that we rent out our apartment (where we live) and go out of town so that he can have money. I lose all confidence and feel like I can't breathe or that there is battery acid in my veins. I don't reveal this but it just destroys me and I have to pray it out for a long time but then I just fear it happening next conversation and so I avoid him a lot more than I would. I never thought about this in the way you said it, but when I read what you said about that, it hit me hard and helped me forgive myself -- or just to realize that this is a deep need, to feel taken care of by a man. I am very capable and do everything on my own since I was 15 because of my own parents divorce, but it was so incredibly nice when we were a team and when I felt protected by H.

But I will say this -- because I stand out of obedience to God and not because it makes any sense here or IRL, I realized that in this context to, I want to surrender that to God, you made me realize that this is a foundational need that women have, and that is why it hurst so much and why it is such a hard cross to bear, but that I can be freed from that too, if I wait on God's grace for liberation from that. This is going to be a huge thing for me to think about and pray about and work on, it is the gaping wound in me and what brings me the most fear, so you gave me a lot to think about with that one line!

Hope you are doing well, I will check out your thread tomorrow as I am about to collapse. Thanks for checking on me, I can't tell you how much it means to me -- or maybe I just did! : )


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Good morning Gerda

Sorry you chickened out. Don’t worry little teeny cork-sized DnJ is still encouraging you, still cares about you. (((Gerda))).

I do understand that you are, and he see you as, very capable. You are correct you must be sincere or he would see through it. However, and I guess I will humble myself in this, you underestimate the male ego. The drive to explain something is powerful, especially if it is to someone we care about.

A twirl of hair, a bat of eye lashes, an “I really don’t get this”, and the hook is set. Maybe not exactly that way but you get the idea.

If all you were interested in is getting filter installed you would just do it, or hire someone. I get that. You willing to try to involve H is a great. So more encouragement from me. What is the worst that H can do. You have spoken about it and expect it. Gerda drop that expectation, it becomes self fulfilling.

Like MWD stated in DB, go at this like you knew the outcome was going to be what you want. If you knew that H would be all receptive, agreeable, saw your point of view, and realized that he needs to put the filter back in - your conversation would be so much easier and different than what you are imagining or expecting. So do that - have the easier and different conversation. You may just be surprised at the outcome, and I truly hope you are.

Do not worry if things turn south, really do not worry. You will have at least planted seeds for next time. I also believe that your efforts will not go unnoticed, they may go unappreciated but not unnoticed.


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Gerda, I'm sorry to hear that you chickened out regarding the filter, but sooner or later you'll have to either just put it back in or step up to hubby to discuss. I trust that you will do whats best for the time, you seem to be a deep thinker that chastises herself in to doing the right thing at the right time regardless of the perceived outcome.

I'm glad I was able to help a little. Yeah, realizing how we tick and why is a big part of moving forward. I was surprised to read about that myself. It helped me realize that my W really didn't have many fundamental reasons for leaving. I probably could have supported her a little more emotionally in the time leading up to her MLC, but only a little more as the only real reason it might have slipped was that we have tween/teen children and are so busy. We did still spend time together, though. Of course thats a 2 way street...she could have made the move to close the gap herself as well, assuming she loved me. Financially we were fine. We both make decent money. Through her MLC she has provided me with no respect or made me feel desired sexually. So, here in MLC land, our basic needs from a relationship are not met even a little. It's a tough road to walk. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to walk it.

I hope you are having a great Sunday!!


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
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Gerda Offline OP
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Oh gosh, DnJ, thank you so much for checking in and all the encouragement.

I am pretty low today.

S13 has been staying up all night, literally, playing video games and was horrifyingly vicious to me -- e.g., "Get the f- out of here, homeless a@@ b-ch," and then crawling into my bed at 5 am and crying and holding my hand til he falls asleep. I have been very frantic with worry and vacillating between dropping the rope and coming down hard; but my H is of course totally unsupportive and keeps saying to just let him choose his own destiny. Still dealing with all the other stuff with ACS and trying to find a new school for him and finishing the closet project by myself, etc. But I thought things were okay with H, I thought we were getting along and I had dropped the rope, was enjoying time housesitting nearby (not sleeping over but loving feeling like I had my own place and doing a lot of writing there) but would eat dinner sometimes all together and it seemed kind of okay.

I was away for a night with my D9 and my S13 stayed home. Yesterday I was returning to the city to try to catch up with family in town to see my brother (have never mentioned him because he rarely helps out with my kids so it's not like having a local brother would normally be). My H said he was spending the afternoon with S13, and I was glad. I get a text from S13 in early evening saying he was going with H and would be eating with him, and then a couple of hours later, a text saying, "I love you." This was so nice but really worried me, wondering if something was going wrong. Then he shows up at my aunt's place where I was seeing family! I was flabbergasted; and he was like my old S, fun and nice and polity and wanting to be with us though nervous and fidgety as he always is. But the second we leave, he tells me, don't worry, it's all going to be okay, but papa said a lot of horrible things about your marriage." My stomach just dropped out, it was like a mini BD. He told me all these things my H had said about how he wanted to leave the marriage, and that there was too much fighting (I never fight) and that we couldn't agree about money so he didn't want to be with me. Apparently s13 kept saying that he thought we should work it out, and that he didn't agree with my H about me or about any of that. My H kept telling him that he would leave once he has money and wanted to make sure my S would come to visit him. S13 was talking really fast and I could tell he was trying to make sense of all this but was completely freaking out but was trying to show that he was calm and sure all would be okay. It was a long walk home, and the whole way my S talked and talked and kept trying to put everything into this context that all would be okay, and kept saying that he was going to stop being so depressed and stop playing video games and just really rely on his family. He kept saying he would never want to leave me or live with his dad.

I truly had no idea what to say but tried to channel DnJ and Gordie in validating and reassuring.

When we got home, I went straight to my room and let the kids hang out with H. It was a fairly normal, if late, bedtime for my kids, and my son came to my bed and wanted to talk more and more. Now he was starting to freak out and said his heart was hurting and that he just wished the pain could go away and that he missed the old papa and wished we could be a regular family. He asked me to watch a manga show he loves, and I did. Eventually we fell asleep. He woke me at 4 in a panic, couldn't sleep, felt cold, his heart hurting, wanted to talk and talk more. He kept saying the same things over and over about wishing his dad was like he was before, "when he was fat," and that we could have a normal family, telling me that I could never die, etc. He said he had thought about killing himself before but would never do that now but he had to be around family, etc.

It was the most he has shared with me in years but it was so so so hard to take.

Finally I read to him and made him a hot water bottle and we fell asleep.

I am feeling a little like post BD and post BD 2, just anxious and terrified, trying to get my center back but mostly just worried about my son feeling this way and what to do.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Oh Gerda, that sounds really hard. I'm sorry that you had to go through that. Seeing our children in pain is the hardest thing. I'm glad he was at least talking. It sounds like he was trying to be "good" due to the bad news he heard. It doesn't sound like it was directed at him, but do you think that he thinks its his fault for what your husband told him. Kids internalize that stuff so much and his reaction sounds like he thinks if he behaves better then things will get better.

Sending you love today...let us be the lighthouse for YOU!!


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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