The bomb woke me up, but she won't talk

[lusa]

She initiated a thank you hug tonight, I was surprised, its the first time its happened post BD. I havent let her go but I think I shifted enough in that direction for her to really feel it. A bit of that shift has stuck with me too.

I also feel more detached than ever although its not properly detached. Thanks to this board I have everything I need internally to properly let her go if necessary.

Ive just read the most powerful combination of words on this subject in Sandis reply to overrnbws post
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2795565#Post2795565

They will stay with me throughout this sitch to use if I need to.

Do you really want to end all this b.s.? Do you want to know the secret of how to get your W back? Do you really? I can tell you in three little words. I don't think you'll do it, but I can tell the secret. Let her go.

[sandi2]

It sounds as if you are feeling a lot better, and that's good news. Glad to see WW has soften a little. Let me give you fair warning about the holiday trip. This is not an absolute, but many times following a vacation, the WW will suddenly pull way back again. Even if she enjoyed the trip and got along with her H, if she's not ready for him to come back home.......or thinks he might believe they are getting close to reconciling, she'll detach, go cold, and send him spinning. So, don't be surprised.

I really hope you all have a great time. Don't let yourself get carried away and try to turn it into a romantic situation or attempt to reconcile. For goodness sake, stay away from any R talk. Just enjoy it for what it was meant to be........a fun family holiday. Let her see this new man she has put out there on the market......available.

As soon as you get back home, resume to your detached position. I promise, if she wants more, she'll pursue you. Don't be eager to accept any invitations from her when first coming back from the trip. She needs to work to get you back. Know what I mean? Make her work for you.......b/c you are worth it.

[lusa]

The holiday went as planned, as you stated a fun family holiday with no romance, R talk or pressure.
I know W enjoyed it very much although it was strange playing happy families while still being officially separated.

Since our return, we have spent sometime together and I have GALed all weekend at a music festival. She has voiced concern about me leaving the home earlier than expected last week to see a friend and calling in half an hour later than expected last night. This seems very strange and controlling for a W who apparently does not want to be with me.

I am resuming my detached position of never initiating going there and only accepting some invitations. I am still finding this really hard as its so counter intuitive. I am getting used to the fact there might never be any chance of R or even a discussion about it ever again.

The six month lease I took on a property is up next month and I am considering giving them notice that I will move out. I think for financial reasons, not R reasons, I need to move back to the family home whether she agrees to it or not. However I am not sure how to bring this up with her as I would prefer to do it with her blessing than without.

[AnotherStander]

The holiday went as planned, as you stated a fun family holiday with no romance, R talk or pressure.I know W enjoyed it very much although it was strange playing happy families while still being officially separated.

First, it's great that you were able to do this without putting pressure on her, well done. Second, YOU DON'T KNOW that she enjoyed it very much, or at all. WAS's are brilliant at "acting as if" while still being very done and ready to move on. It's REALLY easy for a LBS to get the wrong impression from this and think the WAS has changed their mind, and that results in temp checking which is usually a big setback. So don't watch her and try to read what she's thinking/ feeling, she WILL notice and that will feel like pressure to her. Remember this is a marathon, and that progress is all about baby steps. So celebrate the baby steps (such as the hug) internally but keep moving forward with your DB'ing.

She has voiced concern about me leaving the home earlier than expected last week to see a friend and calling in half an hour later than expected last night. This seems very strange and controlling for a W who apparently does not want to be with me.

It's not strange at all, when a LBS GAL's it's pretty common for the WAS to start asking questions. Again, don't misinterpret this. It doesn't mean she wants to get back together, she's just curious.

I am resuming my detached position

So I think you may misunderstand detachment, because you also said this a few weeks ago:

I have pulled back probably ten times in the last few weeks

Detachment isn't something you do now and then with pursuit in between. You don't turn it on and off. You either are detached, or you are not. I don't think you are yet, so that's something you definitely should work on.

I need to move back to the family home whether she agrees to it or not. However I am not sure how to bring this up with her as I would prefer to do it with her blessing than without.

It's been 6 months since you moved out? Do you have a L? This would be something to discuss with them, there may be legal implications since you voluntarily moved out and it's been so long. It's going to affect that conversation with your W. If you find out it's legal, then just sit down with her and tell her you are moving back in and when. Expect her to throw a tantrum, just tell her it's not a negotiation, you are just letting her know. If it's not legal, well that convo will be much different, you're stuck having to ask her permission to move back in and you are at her mercy as to whether she allows it or not.

[lusa]

[lusa]

[lusa]

Thanks for pulling me up on the mind reading again AS I am trying to catch myself. I think I possibly have temp checked tonight and it has resulted in a big setback.

As I stated above a combination of my current financial situation and my lease expiring has lead me to bring up the fact that I plan to move back in a months time. I didnt check with a L first as it just came out. I did google it though and short of a court order its legal here in the UK.

Me I plan to move back in a month
W you cant just move back without a decision being made on the MR
Me we dont have to discuss that until you are ready, and i wont push for that discussion. I can move back before it happens.
W I just dont know about the MR, we have been getting on a lot better since the S it would confuse the kids if you came back before a decision was made
Me I need to do this for financial reasons
W thats a not good enough reason and if the decision is made to D then we would have to sell the house.
Me OK if necessary we will sell the house. Trying to prevent me moving back here isnt fair. I left at your request 6 months ago out of my love for you and the kids. You are the one that wants out of the marriage, you are the one who has had an affair, you should be the one to leave.
W F off

I then left quietly.
Now Im scared and I am wishing I had just properly followed Sandis advice and pulled back properly and everyone elses advice on detaching.

This is the first time weve had a discussion like this in 4 months and she doesnt seem to want me back at all. I dont know if I was taking my balls back or backsliding hugely. At least I didnt beg her and cry like i did at BD.

[lusa]

It's been 10 days since this conversation and we've been acting normally with each other. I have taken this as a good thing because I need to move back in and I would prefer to do it without any grief from her or attempts to stop me.

Apart from the EA, there hasn't been any disrespectful behaviour from her since shortly after BD. She knows I won't tolerate disrespecful behaviour or an ongoing affair, as I never have. She has been as careful as she can to hide the EA from me, which hasn't been too hard for her whilst we've been separated.

I am trying not to snoop but have found a piece of paper when putting the trash out yesterday. It seems to be notes she has written before a conversation with OM. This could have been written 6 weeks ago or 6 days ago.

It's not too legible but states something along the lines of:

Yes talking to me does not help
What we did was wrong, should not
We (you) need to step back for a good long time
Enough we need to stop
and I agree that yes I know its true, you're fine, this just needs to stop
stop worrying now and go and write your book.
It was timeless, unstoppable, overwhelming, beautiful, never wrong, funny, was so good.

First note I've seen like this since one written in March stating

"Have you done anything we spoke about yesterday, I've been baking cakes with S13 and D10. I'm trying, trying to distract myself from you"

I am doing my best not to mindread this, but it does look like she has started to come to her senses / feel guilty / do the right thing and at least attempt to end the EA. I have read every single thread on here for months now and I feel I know what needs to happen before we can attempt R. I know where my boundaries are and I am in no rush to initiate an R talk. If and when she does initiate an R talk I know what i'll need from her to consider us trying.

I don't feel any urgency anymore, my feelings swing from mild anger to apathy with the situation, much more apathy than anger now. She can no longer hurt me any further as the damage has already been done, I don't know if she has it in her to work on her resentment and eventually feel remorse for what she's done. I also don't know if she'll be able to admit her EA, be honest about it and cooperate in a transparency plan. The great thing for me is I regularly feel that I just don't care anymore.

[sandi2]

So, what are your plans at the moment? Do you intend to move back home? Will you be sleeping in the MBR?

If you intend to march back into the house, claim the MBR, and expect her to be transparent.......I think you will be faced with great opposition. With that said, I want you to understand that I am not opposed to the idea of a man going back to his house and rightfully claiming what is his. I am just saying that if his WW is not ready for him to return, he is in for a battle of wills.

Based on the stories I can recall where the H reclaimed his position in the home, the WW did not go down without a fight. You see, when the H agrees to leave the home at his WW's request, I believe she thinks that is the biggest step in her plan to gain freedom (getting the H out of the home). It is especially nice for her when the H is so willing to run her errands, do odd jobs around the house, chauffeur the kids, and then go back to his designated place at the end of the day. That is a lot of yummy cake for a WW! She sees herself holding the reigns of power in this relationship. If she decides to D, she already has the H out of the house, so the next step is just signing paperwork. If her affair doesn't gain speed, then she can keep the H at arms length, and still get served cake. She has the benefits from being legally M, and gets the affair partner on the side. So, if the H moves back home without her agreement, it really upsets her playhouse.

You cannot force transparency. A transparency plans requires the agreement & cooperation of a W who is willing to do whatever is necessary to save the M. If she has not agreed to end her affair and go NC with OM.......then the H would be setting himself up to look rather ridiculous, by laying out a plan of transparency for her. There is no way she's going to be transparent, when she's not willing to end the A and work on her M.

If the H tries to reclaim the MBR, the W may physically fight him, or she may call the police. We hear more & more of this type of WW reaction when the H tries to force his way back into the MBR, or force her to leave it. So, think carefully about the hill you want to die on.

Know the law. If you have a lawyer, check to make sure of your rights before you try to physically move your things into the house. There are some crazy laws, so don't assume you can do whatever you want, just b/c your name is on the mortgage. You don't want to be arrested for trying to enter your own house.

So, every man has to decide what is best for him. If he goes back to the house, he should not be navieve and expect his WW to be happy about it. I don't suggest he move his things back into the house without telling her, b/c that pretty much begs for war to break out. Also, if he has to sleep in a separate bedroom, he needs to weigh those options and determine if he is gaining or losing ground by moving back. I'm just saying he needs to think before leaping.

[lusa]

So, what are your plans at the moment? Do you intend to move back home? Will you be sleeping in the MBR?

My plan is to move back into the family home I have lived in for 15 years. I’m not sure whether it was right to leave in January but I am sure it is right to go back now.

I have given notice on my tenancy so have to be out in the next 3 weeks. I have also given notice to WW that I will be moving back in. This was met with resistance, where I think I held my ground, but it certainly wasn’t agreed to.

It hasn’t been discussed since, except the next day on the phone where WW requested, the next time we discuss “us” should be out of the house as she said d11 had overheard, which I don’t think was true. I wasn’t discussing “us” just informing her I need to move back in. I am in no rush for an R talk, that can happen if and when she’s ready. The problem is she feels any talk of me moving back is tied to an MR discussion/decision so I have realized it is too much pressure to bring it up again. I have stated what I need to do and now feel that is enough.

It has now been nearly two weeks since the discussion without it being mentioned again, even though we have been alone together in the house quite a few times. I feel it’s good she hasn’t initiated a discussion intended to deter me, My plan is to move back in over the next 3 weeks and enjoy spending more time with my kids, fixing my house etc, regardless of what she does.

I have been virtually living there anyway, just not sleeping and waking there and this whole time has been in complete harmony with no pressure or pursuit. I think we both would go so far to say we've been consistently getting on much better than the entire 12 months leading up to BD. I think this is down to my DBing, following the rules, and implementing consistent 180's concerning patience, communication & parental responsibilities. Thanks to so many kind people on this board, i'm in a much better place as a person than I was a few months ago.

I am pretty sure she has gone NC with OM and is dealing with the withdrawal. I certainly won’t initiate an R talk and I'm in no rush for her to. Re transparency, I won’t even mention the word, unless we are at a point where she is really asking what I need from her to rebuild trust and stating that she is willing to do anything necessary. She is leaving her phone out and her pc on much more now and has never been very good at hiding things anyway, so it might not be needed

I realize this is a marathon, and that the mess of the EA needs to be resolved before she can work on releasing her resentment and consider working on our MR. I am ready for this process to take many, many months and won’t be surprised if it doesn’t happen at all. I’ve made my peace with the fact it’s out of my control and she has to make her own decisions on her own journey. I have also dealt with my anger with what’s happened, or for kids sake I wouldn’t be moving back in.

There certainly could be some resistance to me moving back into the MBR. I have a plan to clear some space in the attic, so if necessary I can sleep up there. I would prefer to be in the MBR, especially now I realize how symbolic it is, but I’m not going to die on a hill for it. I will let her have it for now if it’s that important to her, but won’t volunteer that information up front.

I’ll check with a L regarding the legality of me moving back. But I know for a fact if she tries to legally stop me I will properly implement the LRT and go darker on her than I ever have with everything except kids necessities. Me enabling this cake eating in the throne of power has to stop whether I am living there or not.