So keep in mind that my mom has not been diagnosed with NPD, but I can't find any other explanation for her behavior, which has been consistent over all her life.
Some of the key things she has done over the years - lie, manipulate, gaslight everybody. She thrived on create instability in relationships and then exploited them to create dependencies on her.
Especially with her children, she did this since we were children to ensure that we were dependent on her. So, I definitely believe that my co-dependency, NGS, and other stuff has its roots there.
The thing about having a NPD type parent is that it's extremely damaging to the children if there are no other positive influences to balance it out - and even then it's very difficult for the kids to escape unscathed.
My parents marriage fell apart when I was 8, but it was deteriorating for a few years. I had no idea what happened except all the lies she fed me about it. I grew up hating my dad and cut off contact with him for years. He went on remarried and had a new family and so it became easier for him I guess. I also think he was so broken by my mom's continuous lies, manipulation, and infidelity that he just needed to get away. I am a bit critical of that approach as I would never leave my kids. But anyways, that's what happened.
So I grew up hating my father and lost touch with that entire side of the family. I had loving relationships with others in my mom's side of the family, but she slowly destroyed all of that by lies and gaslighting me. It got so bad that I cut contact with them for over a decade.
Here's the reason why it's so damaging when it's happening when you're a kid - you have absolutely no reason to not trust your parent. You also have no marker for comparison and you are still so little that you have no discernment skills. So, I did not understand the magnitude of what was happening. And this went on for almost 3 decades.
But as I got older, the story just didn't add up. There were cracks in it and my mom's explanations and answers didn't make sense. I also got perspective when I had my kids because now I was weighing her life decisions, especially ones that affected us, through a different microscope. And they didn't make sense because they were bad decisions. One of two bad decisions is fine. But a pattern over 2 decades? Now that is not just some bad apples.
The other thing this type of parent does is not only create this crazy level of co-dependency with them, but you also become very fearful to do something that might upset them if they found out.
But when things didn't add up, and I thought about it intensely for a few years, I decided to break rank and contact my family that I hadn't spoken to in a decade. And they asked me if I was ready to hear the truth about everything. And I was. So, I went and saw them in secret, and we spent 2 weeks unpacking decades worth of hurt, trauma, and pain. I got confirmation that my hunches were right and what I learned was devastating.
I didn't find out till my early 30s and then I made the conscious choice of not having her in my life for my own sake but also for my kids. I vowed that my kids would have a fresh start to life without all of this baggage and if that included cutting her out, so be it.
So, when I say here sometimes that I am working through decades of trauma on top of BD to get myself healthy, it really is rooted in my childhood and the effects of this one person and what her choices meant for me.
She doesn't have real friends. She only befriends people who she can use for some reason, and usually it's money. She discards people once they're past their usefulness. She is promiscuous and has cheated on all her boyfriends with multiple men. She is obsessed with wealth and fantasies of luxury, but doesn't want to work for it. She gets involved with rich men who get her stuff and lives off their largesse. She's never really maintained her career or work life and just wanted a hand out.
Anyways, the moral of the story is that a NPD parent can have very damaging consequences on the child. If my father was actively involved, I don't know how things would've been. Even with loving family around me, she was able to exert unbelievable damage to my life.
So create a very stable environment for your son. Be an upstanding person with integrity and truth. I think only a parent can counter the other parent's behaviour and have the same level of weight. How you hold yourself up and what your values are will most likely keep your son more grounded. He will know that you are trustworthy and won't bull$hit him. Start it now so he will always remember that this is who you are. He will trust you as much as he trusts you, and if that remains unbroken over time, he will come to see the truth and reality as he gets older.
What I forgot to add - she fed me complete lies about her marriage and how it broke down. She blamed my dad for everything and I didn't find out the truth until a few years ago - he left her because she wouldn't stop sleeping with other men. So, I grew up hating my dad my whole life and last saw him when I was 11. I found out the truth a year after he passed away. She cost me my relationship with my dad and I found out too late to do anything about it. I realized that my dad showed amazing patience and magnanimity in front of her madness and cheating. So, the damage is life lasting. I am lucky to have recovered my relationships with other family members, but we all paid dearly for it in time lost. A time of my life when I really needed that family in my life.
Wow, Makia, that was friggin moving. Thank you for sharing this incredibly sensitive topic in your life.
It really helped to read this, because Firstly, it shows how much more commonplace it is to have families that need to deal with and cope with this type of toxic personality. It also shows that WIFE is going to be like this, and self-destruct her own life time after time again. Neither of these are comforting facts, but it helps me to understand what the long term may look like with WIFE, as well as the fact that i dont feel quite so alone having read this.
You bared a raw part of yourself here Makia, I am deeply grateful.
the portion regarding your father made me cry. I will not allow that to happen to My son and I.
it is staggering how a Mother could do these things.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Preface:WIFE does NOT like my brother or Sister in law. WIFE and I Started dating right at the exact same time my brother started dating who is now his wife. my WIFE and her became fast friends early on. Then WIFE chose her as a person close to me to triangulate VERY early on in our R. I think she did this to push my brother and I apart, or because she has this need to be superior to other women. Either way WIFE began antagonizing and triangulating my brothers girlfriend, and it became a bit of a war of attrition over the years I was with WIFE. She drove a wedge between my brother and I by having a drama war with my SIL. I believed my WIFE for years, and thought my SIL was the one who was manipulative and crazy. It wasnt until BD when people showed their colors. WIFE was shown to be the lying deceptive snake she is, and i found out my SIL was hands down one of the most forgiving, generous, caring people ever. Needless to say my WIFE does not like her for the fact that she eventually overcame and rose above WIFE's manipulations. WIFE also hates my brother for being the one person in my life to speak outwardly against her, and my brother has said some pretty harsh things to her in the past. My brother and I are closer than brothers, we are like twins. She tried to F**K with that bond, and it didnt go well for her. Long story short, WIFE has a PARTICULAR hatred for my brother and his wife.
Also they are AMAZING Aunt and Uncle to S3. Like miles above and beyond the call of duty. SIL is who bailed me out when WIFE had me arrested. SIL has been my helper for court, and all legal issues. She is a rock, a titan of support and love.
Also worth noting my brother and I used to have a business breeding reptiles for exotic pets. We got rid of all our animals recently to make room for me and S3 at his house. WIFE doesnt know the animals are gone. She is going to look for any reason she can to discredit Brother and SIL's house as a safe living space for S3. It is clean, safe, has a nice yard, on a lake, and S3 and I have a loving support structure there.
Update: So last night WIFE texted me
WIFE: I got your new address in the mail ME: *No answer* (25 min later) WIFE: Im guessing you and S3 will be sharing the room that was the reptile room? ME: *No Answer* ------------------------------- This Morning at 7:45am
WIFE: *Sends Picture of S3 sleeping in PJ's at her mothers house* WIFE: Since you dont seem to want to believe me, here is a picture of S3 sleeping, at my mothers house, where we both still live, in his bed, which is right next to mine. Me: *No Answer*
Man, She really doesnt like to be ignored. admittadly this is the first time she has texted that i have truly ignored her. Anytime in the past i would wait hours, or even half a day, but I always caved and replied eventually.
She always texts about S3 so she feels ill be obligated to respond i think.
Im not answering. ------------------------------------------------------- Personal Update.
Still feeling clean, disconnected. i think ive made real detachment progress for once, just gotta maintain that forward momentum!!!
WIFE has S3 tonight. I think im gonna hit up the climbing gym. see if i can still send a 5.9 on first try. Double Dyno to Micro Crimper!
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
OK - I would just add that if she asks a question....like in the text about the reptile room you can answer with a simple "yes" or "no" but nothing more (and delay the response). Anything else that is a statement, or just information sharing there is no need. In the text exchange above it looks like you got asked 1 question and she sent 2/3 statements.
Detachment is not coming off as being pissed off, angry or cold.
I had considered answering "Yes" to the question about the room I am living in. I chose not to for 2 reasons.
1.) its the only other bedroom in the house, so its obvious that is the room S3 and I would be in. Shes asking obvious questions just to keep in touch. (same thing with how she had asked for directions to meet up with my parents, and claimed to have "Driving anxiety" when she wasnt even the one driving, and had her GPS. No need to contact me. These are just ways of seeing if I will respond)
2.) She has been very secretive and hiding the fact that she sleeps at OM's with S3, she is still denying this often.
I thought about saying "Yes" but then i realized it isnt directly about S3's CARE. She doesnt need to know details of my living situation. She chose not to be in my life, if she wants to "Guess" at where i am living as she puts it, she can guess all she would like.
I am going for cause and effect here, if she wants me to be open and candid about my living situation and where and with whom i spend time with S3, she will need to make the first steps in opening that line of honest and transparent communication.
In the last 2 days she has tried to lay down rules to me about how I date, what I do when with S3, tries to dictate terms of the Divorce to me and expects to have unfettered access to all the types of information she is deliberately withholding from me.
It needs to be established that I am not going to bow to her every demand, and if we are going to establish a quality co parenting relationship, it will be based on a give and take relationship, and i DONT mean she gives me crap, and i take it.
She seems to think the TRO gives her authority over any and all aspects of our parenting situation, but yet she has fallen behind on Daycare payments 2 separate occasions now, this most recent time she missed 3 payments!! That is $735 in missing tuition payments. She couldn't be bothered to bring S3 to a Dr appointment she had 2 months to get done, she shirks S3 off on her parents half the time she has him. I have this all documented and ready for court.
Joseph, I feel like her getting answers to non-essential questions like this is a matter of mutual respect, respect she will need to earn. I gave her respect and trust by benefit of the doubt when i claimed my love for her, and married her. She destroyed my trust and respect, and has a LONNNNGGG road to go to earn a modicum of either back.
If she can act like an adult for some time, perhaps i will become more open and communicative. Until such time however, as neither message she sent me was urgent or directly about S3's care, i dont see the need to give her the satisfaction of knowing i responded.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Just be careful that you don't go tit for tat and that you don't stoop to her level.
You live your life and you don't bow down to any of her demands. You do this though with a smile on your face and not acting angry, cold, or pissed off. Ignore the texts that are not actionable and those that are you keep it brief. Your choice, your decision.
In my sitch I had asked my EW to give me a heads up before she introduced her BF to our kids. She said she would but she didn't. When she told me about it I let her know that I was disappointed and frustrated with the choice she made but at the end of the day their was nothing I could do about it.
When I meet someone I could do the same thing and not let her know and I would do it just because she did it to me. As you say "Cause and effect". You stick it to me and I am now going to stick it to you. That's not me though, I will give her a heads up before my girls get introduced to another lady (it is the right thing to do whether or not she extended me the same courtesy). My EW will not sway me or make me move off of my core beliefs. I will do it because it is the right thing to do and her actions don't impact mine.
I would challenge you to stick to your core values of who you are as a man and not let her dictate what you will and will not do. IMO someone has to take the lead and show the path forward.
The more you poke her the more she is going to poke back and it just keeps on going until someone gets tired and says enough is enough.
