Advice Needed To Deal With WW - Part 2

[Bewas]

Original Thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2794981&page=1

Let the original thread get a little long. Forgot I needed to start a new one after 10 pages.

Formerly a question of whether or not my W was a WAW, and MLC or a WW. Well, I got my answer the other day explained in the previous thread. She is definitely a WW.

Anyways, thanks you all for your continued help and advice! Keep it coming!

[Bewas]

Bewas, I am a confronting fan myself. I confronted in my sitch. My only advice is that you NEVER let her know how you know. Just that you know.

WWs are notorious for going deeper undercover when you confront and especially if you reveal how you know. That was my mistake, and she slowly shut down any access I had. So if you confront DO NOT TELL HER HOW YOU KNOW.

Yes, this is something I'll need to figure out as I found out through our shared google account. If I tell her how I know, I'd be shut out. I wonder if that's for the better though in the end? We are separated after all and I can't actually control anything she does. Maybe it's best I don't know going forward. Especially if I am to move on and GAL. I could always just play coy with how I know I suppose. Let her figure it out. Or just drop red herrings in another direction?

But to reiterate what I've already stated, I plan on fully moving on as best as I can after this. The only thing I can control in this situation is myself and I've made huge strides the last month in figuring out what I'm going to do moving forward. With or without her I'll be fine. I think I've already become a better me in a lot of ways since this started. I think that's the realization I needed.

By moving on, I don't mean I'm giving up on her completely, just realizing I can't save her from herself and can't make her understand what she is doing to all of those who actually care for her. By me telling her I know, and basically acting as if I don't care, letting her know that I'm done now and she can do whatever she wants, maybe she thinks about that a little. Who knows. I'll be moving on regardless.

[Bewas]

Ask the hard questions, i didn't early on and paid for it.

Do you want someone who will betray your trust?
Do you want someone who doesn't want you?
Do you want to torture yourself everyday while the person you are suffering for walks all over you?

I kind of missed this the first time reading your post.

These are such important questions in a time like this.

Asking myself these questions at this very moment, the answer is no.
No, I don't want the person she has become. If I could get "MY" W back, of course I would want her...even half of what she "WAS", but not what she's become. This mindset of mine may change going forward of course towards her but the more I think of it in this way, the easier moving on will be.

[sandi2]

Gentlemen, I feel as if I am not being really heard on the subject of confrontation in this sitch. I am not against confronting the wayward spouse. I just think the LBS needs a plan beyond the confrontation. In other words, what is the purpose of the confrontation? If you are already separated and living in different houses, and you just want her to know that you are aware she lied and she is an affair (b/c it will make you feel better).....then knock yourself out.

[sandi2]

Where are you, Bewas? What's going on?

[Bewas]

Where are you, Bewas? What's going on?

Apologies,

Been incredibly busy the last few days and have not had time to post.

I did end up confronting her about the fact that I know she is cheating or at least in an EA. I honestly needed to do it just for me to feel better regardless. She of course still denies it even still, but gets EXTREMELY agitated when "cheating" or "affair" or even anything to do with being with someone else is brought up. She at first says it wouldn't be cheating anyways if she was as we are separated but then she also accuses me of cheating when she doesn't know where I am or what I'm doing. (seriously...hypocrite much?) I'm honestly starting to wonder if she may have done something even before this whole situation started and is projecting her shame and regret towards me as anger as a way to justify herself and her decisions. I don't know...just a feeling.

I'm done even trying to follow what she is doing at this point. I've completely detached the last few days. It's been easy at times and harder at other times. I've been happier lately as well. Been getting out and getting active a lot as well. I've decided to move in with family until the situation resolves itself one way or another as I can't live with her this way and to be honest...our house doesn't feel like home anymore. I just don't want to be there. She is also apparently still moving out of the house as well last I heard. I don't even care anymore. Maybe we will try to rent out the house until we can sell it for a decent price if she is moving out. Not sure exactly on this yet.

She had an extreme falling out with her family over the weekend apparently. It got REALLY heated. They are fed up with her recent behavior and disrespect as they see a huge awful change in her. Nobody can understand why she is doing this to her family and the complete disregard for her son in this situation. Her decisions baffle everybody. She basically got kicked out apparently and she proclaimed she is "DONE FOREVER" with her family now. She is losing more than just me in this situation it seems. Probably doesn't help my situation with her as she'll just blame me, but whatever, it's not something I can control. Seems like karma biting her in the a$$ to me.

It seems to me that from some of the texts and discussions with her, she isn't doing as well financially as she thought she was going to be. I'm not surprised. I was the one who handled the finances anyways so I knew this already. I think there are many more eye openers for her to come. Especially when she gets our son for her first week with him on her own. We'll see how much she enjoys that. She's never had to do it before on her own for an extended period. I don't plan on helping at all unless it concerns the actual safety of my son of course.

The fact that she is in so deep with whatever is going on with her that she would be willing to lose basically everything including her own family for this is mind boggling to me. But that's me trying to get in the head of a WW, which is quite impossible for someone thinking rationally to do. So I'll have to not do that anymore

So is it dark mode for me now? I'm assuming so.

Any more thoughts or advice on my current sitch' would be welcomed!

Thanks!

[SteveLW]

Bewas, a word of caution. The family thing also strikes me as showing how wayward she is. My W, at the height of her waywardness, threatened cutting off everyone in her family (mom and stepdad, dad and stepmom, and all of her extended family). This is part of the fantasy of waywardness. I am going to start completely over so I don't have to face anyone that might judge me negatively. I even remember after I found out who her EA AP was, and I ran a background check on him, I said to her "I would love to see you bring this loser home to your dad." I could see her deflate before my eyes. She knew I was right.

I also remember my cousin years ago, calling off his wedding to his longtime GF 5 weeks before the wedding. He told me, "I am going to move far away because everyone is going to hate me." Often times when people make selfish decisions they want to run and hide from those that they think will hit them with 2x4s. (Note, my cousin was doing the right thing in this case but still wanted to avoid negative kickback.)

Likely she is doing this with her family to avoid being guilted or scolded for or talked out of what she is doing.

And you are right, her accusing you of cheating is a total cheater move. This board is riddled with LBSs that were accused of cheating by their cheating S.

[Bewas]

Bewas, a word of caution. The family thing also strikes me as showing how wayward she is. My W, at the height of her waywardness, threatened cutting off everyone in her family (mom and stepdad, dad and stepmom, and all of her extended family). This is part of the fantasy of waywardness. I am going to start completely over so I don't have to face anyone that might judge me negatively. I even remember after I found out who her EA AP was, and I ran a background check on him, I said to her "I would love to see you bring this loser home to your dad." I could see her deflate before my eyes. She knew I was right.

I also remember my cousin years ago, calling off his wedding to his longtime GF 5 weeks before the wedding. He told me, "I am going to move far away because everyone is going to hate me." Often times when people make selfish decisions they want to run and hide from those that they think will hit them with 2x4s. (Note, my cousin was doing the right thing in this case but still wanted to avoid negative kickback.)

Likely she is doing this with her family to avoid being guilted or scolded for or talked out of what she is doing.

And you are right, her accusing you of cheating is a total cheater move. This board is riddled with LBSs that were accused of cheating by their cheating S.

In my W's case, she was really trying to hide the situation from her family as long as she could knowing full well what would happen when they found out the details. She just expected them to accept the destruction of her family for no good reason at all. It really blew up in her face now with them now that they know what's really going on. They would NEVER accept her bringing home anyone else other than me.

[sandi2]

So is it dark mode for me now? I'm assuming so.

Don't pursue her with contacts and conversations. Don't make suggestions, ask questions, talk about the M, etc. If she contacts you, just listen.....as long as she is being respectful. Otherwise, just follow a parenting schedule for the child.

Get a job ASAP. Continue GAL. Your W is going to need time to learn a few lessons from life's experiences. I think there is a good chance she will want to reconcile, but you need to stay out of her life until then.

[Bewas]

So is it dark mode for me now? I'm assuming so.

Don't pursue her with contacts and conversations. Don't make suggestions, ask questions, talk about the M, etc. If she contacts you, just listen.....as long as she is being respectful. Otherwise, just follow a parenting schedule for the child.

Get a job ASAP. Continue GAL. Your W is going to need time to learn a few lessons from life's experiences. I think there is a good chance she will want to reconcile, but you need to stay out of her life until then.

Thanks Sandi!

I'm glad to hear you think there is a chance for reconciliation. I'm not having any expectations of any anything right now myself though. I haven't been contacting her at all since I confronted her on the weekend. She been the only one initiating since. I've been trying my best to GAL. Some days are more successful than others. I do agree with you 100% that life's experiences are going to be the key I think to perhaps turning her around and out of this. This new life she is trying to have is not going to be as good as she already had it. She's already had a few good eye openers. Not enough to turn the situation around yet but maybe with time and enough of them, it might be enough. We'll see.

Thanks, and again, any more advice or input is always welcome!

[Bewas]

Days like today make it hard for me to see any light at the end of the tunnel in my situation.

She's being a bit of a b#tch while texting and calling me regarding bill payments (I'm not the one initiating this btw). I'm being very civil and not letting emotion get in the way but it's causing me to have to have extended text conversations. She did end up calling me in the middle of the text conversation and was really short with me. She was also calling while in the middle of an appointment with a client who could probably hear everything. She then told me to stop texting her...It was kind of weird tbh. She's trying to get me to pay more than my fair share of the bills but I'm standing my ground. I honestly think she's a bit overwhelmed by how many bills she has to handle by herself now. I guess that's her problem now.

I'm assuming issues like this are common in situations like mine. Even though I know she is WW, it still deflates me a little having interactions like this, but I suppose there isn't much I can do other than detach as much as possible and let her reap what she sows.

[Bewas]

So is it dark mode for me now? I'm assuming so.

Don't pursue her with contacts and conversations. Don't make suggestions, ask questions, talk about the M, etc. If she contacts you, just listen.....as long as she is being respectful. Otherwise, just follow a parenting schedule for the child.

Get a job ASAP. Continue GAL. Your W is going to need time to learn a few lessons from life's experiences. I think there is a good chance she will want to reconcile, but you need to stay out of her life until then.

Well, I just got an even clearer image of what's going on now. I know there is an OM now. They just recently connected on FB but from the messenger conversation, it seems they've been in communication for much longer. She was complaining to him about him blowing her off and he was defending himself staying his phone was out of reception at the lake and the only time he does is when he is golfing. There is only one way I can take this information. It's very scummy. He is like 6 years younger than her and seems like a douche bag but I'd bet money that he probably doesn't even know she has a baby son and is just freshly seperated. If he does, than he is an even bigger douchebag than I already thought.

I felt very sad last night even though I knew there was someone. It's only been a month since this started. Separated out not, we are still married and this is deplorable Imo. She doesn't even seem to give a damn about her son anymore. She's seen him for maybe a couple of hours over the last 2 weeks. Keeps making excuses to not have to take him for her week. I'm so disgusted with her right now.

I've already confronted her once about nude photos but should I do it again now that I know who it is? Would it even accomplish anything at this point? Maybe it would, I'm not sure. Would leaving it be just make it worse?

Another thing is, she has business payroll coming and has no idea how to do it, I'm assuming I should let her squirm and figure it out for herself right? I'm not feeling in a helping her mood right now anyways.

I'm assuming that detaching and how I act doesn't really change but it's going to be really tough acting upbeat and not angry around her. I can't help but feel that moving out myself maybe just made it easier for her to continue this? I guess she would have just found another means to do it anyways. I also couldn't be around her anymore anyways in a house that didn't feel like home anymore.

Any more advice for me would be so helpful right now. Thank you!

[joejoe1]

Since you have moved out don't confront her about her convo with OM. Don't give him any energy or power. The less you speak, care or worry about him the less energy he will start to have in your Sitch.

Now its time for you to work on and become a person only a fool would leave.

Do not help her with her responsibilities. Its her owns now, thats the choice she has made. True love is allowing a person to be themselves and chose for themselves. Don't step in to help her fix her mistakes. Let her fall, it will be hard to watch, but when she realize how much you have done for her, her fog will begin to lift and reality will start to hit like a ton of bricks.

You will be out of her way, and the only person that will be around decor her to blame is herself, nomore Bewas.

Keep going forward. Find positive and happiness. I know that will be hard, but not impossible. The faster you get there the better chance you have of saving your Sitch.

[sandi2]

I've already confronted her once about nude photos but should I do it again now that I know who it is?

I asked you once before what were the benefits. You guys just assumed that was my way of saying not to confront. It wasn't. I was asking you a legitmate question........which you never answered. In the end, you just had to confront her for the sake of your feelings. Okay, so now she knows that you know. How's that work'in for ya?

So, here I am asking you again what benefit do you get from confronting her? Did it stop her from posting nude photos when you confronted the first time? Apparently not. So what do you expect from a second confrontation? You are separated!!! What can you do about her posting naked photos? Not a flipping thing!

When she left you, she was saying that whatever she does in her life is none of your business. You have no control over how she conducts her life. Get it through your head.

[Bewas]

Since you have moved out don't confront her about her convo with OM. Don't give him any energy or power. The less you speak, care or worry about him the less energy he will start to have in your Sitch.

Now its time for you to work on and become a person only a fool would leave.

Do not help her with her responsibilities. Its her owns now, thats the choice she has made. True love is allowing a person to be themselves and chose for themselves. Don't step in to help her fix her mistakes. Let her fall, it will be hard to watch, but when she realize how much you have done for her, her fog will begin to lift and reality will start to hit like a ton of bricks.

You will be out of her way, and the only person that will be around decor her to blame is herself, nomore Bewas.

Keep going forward. Find positive and happiness. I know that will be hard, but not impossible. The faster you get there the better chance you have of saving your Sitch.

Thanks for the great response and advice!

I've been leaning towards that this time, I'll say nothing in regards to the OM. She'll just deny it anyways. When I confronted her last time, it didn't really do much anyways. All it probably did was make it seem like I was still hanging on I suppose.

Yeah, I think she is on her own in regards to her payroll responsibilities. I'm not helping her with anything more going forward.

Thanks!

[ovrrnbw]

Sandi is right. You're going down cheese less tunnels. And it let's your W know she still has you by the balls. Tell someone else, go sparring, run 10 miles. Get it out another way Bewas. OR keep going down a cheese less tunnel.

[Bewas]

I've already confronted her once about nude photos but should I do it again now that I know who it is?

I asked you once before what were the benefits. You guys just assumed that was my way of saying not to confront. It wasn't. I was asking you a legitmate question........which you never answered. In the end, you just had to confront her for the sake of your feelings. Okay, so now she knows that you know. How's that work'in for ya?

So, here I am asking you again what benefit do you get from confronting her? Did it stop her from posting nude photos when you confronted the first time? Apparently not. So what do you expect from a second confrontation? You are separated!!! What can you do about her posting naked photos? Not a flipping thing!

When she left you, she was saying that whatever she does in her life is none of your business. You have no control over how she conducts her life. Get it through your head.

Hi Sandi,

Yeah, least time I did it just for my own sake but it didn't have any real effect on anything. I've decided I'm am not going to confront this time about anything. I'm also not going to help her with anything going forward at all.

I also thought I did answer your question from before in regards to why and the benefits, but if I didn't I apologize as I may not have.

You are absolutely right, I do not have any control over her life so I'll just stay out of it. It is very good advice that I'll have no choice but to follow. I think it's through my head now

Thanks!

[Bewas]

Sandi is right. You're going down cheese less tunnels. And it let's your W know she still has you by the balls. Tell someone else, go sparring, run 10 miles. Get it out another way Bewas. OR keep going down a cheese less tunnel.

I know, I know. You are all absolutely right. I see that now. I won't confront. I've seen first hand how it didn't really do anything for me last time anyways. No more cheese less tunnels for me!

Asking the question again has really made me realize this time what not to do thanks to all of the awesome advice!

Thanks!

[Bewas]

So I saw her yesterday and today while dropping off and picking up our son. This is the first time she's had him overnight on her own since this all started. It was also the first time I had been at my house for almost two weeks. The house was a mess and seems like it is abandoned in a way. It really seems like she only inhabits the bedroom and bathroom right now. There was no food in the fridge, and everything was pretty well untouched since I had left. She hasn't lifted a finger in there. I ended up cutting the grass as I do still own the house and wanted to at least upkeep that part. Our beautiful garden that she was so very proud of and loved taking care of has gone completely to weeds. A bunch of her projects that she had been working on before this all started have been just left abandoned. It's like everything that made her "my" W have just vanished.

I did not tell her anything in regards to me knowing about the OM and I did not help her at all with her payroll even though she asked me to help her with it. I simply gave her some of the numbers she would need and told her to learn how to do it like I did. She seemed peeved about that. I've been working on being more upbeat in her presence and I did better this time. I can still be better at it though.

I did notice that she ended up going to a clients place with our son in the evening and had her picture taken with him and posted to FB by the client. Today, I noticed that she had removed the OM from her friends list on FB. I'm wondering if she did that because she thinks I may be looking? Or another thing I am thinking is she wants to minimize the fact that she has a son to this OM. Doesn't want him seeing photos of our son with her. I have a feeling he may not even know. He probably doesn't even know how freshly we are separated. Just a hunch. A much younger guy than her is only looking for a fling and will have no interest in her with a kid IMO.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

[ovrrnbw]

Is your W still at your home or did she move out to somewhere else? Your signature coupled with your thread have me confused.

Hard to say what taking the OM off Facebook friends means. She could just communicate through a more surreptitious channel, and is just saving face since you confronted and she knows you may spread the word.

Don't assume anything, and don't worry about what you won't be able to know. Focus on yourself, you can control that! Good luck.

[Bewas]

Is your W still at your home or did she move out to somewhere else? Your signature coupled with your thread have me confused.

Hard to say what taking the OM off Facebook friends means. She could just communicate through a more surreptitious channel, and is just saving face since you confronted and she knows you may spread the word.

Don't assume anything, and don't worry about what you won't be able to know. Focus on yourself, you can control that! Good luck.

Apologies for the confusion, forgot to update Sig.

She is still in the house even though I've moved out. I had to, I couldn't stand being there with her. It also did not feel like home anymore. I asked her this morning when she dropped off our son what her plans were for moving out. She said she still wants to move out because she doesn't want the house either. I'm not sure I believe her, she's been spouting that since the beginning and has done nothing. Not sure I care either way.

Yeah, the OM being removed kind of stumps me. I guess I can't worry about it though as I can't control it anyways. It just seems odd is all.

Thanks!

[SteveLW]

My take on the FB friends removal thing of OM. Unfriending someone on FB is usual a passive-aggressive way of letting that person know you are upset with them. Most of the time it is a way to also get their attention.

So likely he pulled back a bit? Is he married? Maybe he started talking about wanting to make things work with his W. One of the big differences between women who cheat and men who cheat is that men are just looking for some strange. Women tend to be more emotionally invested in the A and want it to have a future.

So if he did pull back she could be unfriending him in an attempt to make him think she is disconnecting from him AND to get him to react "Why did you unfriend me? That isn't what I wanted!" I saw this with my friend when her OM wanted to end the A.

[Bewas]

My take on the FB friends removal thing of OM. Unfriending someone on FB is usual a passive-aggressive way of letting that person know you are upset with them. Most of the time it is a way to also get their attention.

So likely he pulled back a bit? Is he married? Maybe he started talking about wanting to make things work with his W. One of the big differences between women who cheat and men who cheat is that men are just looking for some strange. Women tend to be more emotionally invested in the A and want it to have a future.

So if he did pull back she could be unfriending him in an attempt to make him think she is disconnecting from him AND to get him to react "Why did you unfriend me? That isn't what I wanted!" I saw this with my friend when her OM wanted to end the A.

I'm pretty sure he isn't married. At least his profile said he was single. Although it was a bit outdated as he didn't seem to use FB much.
He has no other presence on social media that I could find either.

I really have no idea, but it's strange in that I couldn't even see his page anymore from her account. Like she was blocked or she blocked herself from it if that's possible. Not just unfriended but blocked it seems. I went on my account and could see his page just fine.

Thoughts?

[SteveLW]

So you are logging into her account?!?

[Bewas]

So you are logging into her account?!?

I used to do all of her business marketing from her account on FB. It's connected to her personal account. She hasn't changed any of the credentials. I don't touch anything, just look. I had been not logging in lately but I just had a feeling the other day to check and that's when I saw it.

This was the first time I've seen her slip up using FB. Maybe she forgot this time or got lazy temporarily. The FB messenger convo between them is still there though. Just cannot get to his page anymore from her account. Strange.

[Bewas]

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention about their FB messenger convo was that at the end she got his phone number to text instead. From the convo though, they had been in contact for much longer before this though. They must have been communicating a different way. Snapchat I'm thinking. I guess looking back at that, it could be why she either removed or blocked him to try to keep it hidden? Or maybe he blocked her? No idea.

[SteveLW]

Bewas, this is very unhealthy and will not help your sitch. I would highly suggest you stop logging into your account and snooping. It will derail you.

[Bewas]

Bewas, this is very unhealthy and will not help your sitch. I would highly suggest you stop logging into your account and snooping. It will derail you.

I do agree with you...I did stop looking at anything of hers completely for awhile but just had an urge to check. I do feel worse off now for looking, though at least I know now. I'll have to stop, it will make me crazy if I continue.

I have been GAL lately at least, as hard as it is. I think that's all that I can do for now.

[Bewas]

So I've been re-reading all of the DB'ing rules to dealing with my WW. I think I'm doing fairly well with most of them, however, I think I still need to work on some of them and could maybe use some advice.

"Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse."

For this one, I've told some select trusted friends and family members details of what's going on which I think is fine. The problem I'm having with this rule is the fact that her family has decided to side with me on this due to her actions and behavior which they've seen for themselves. She is a completely different person to them. They are absolutely amazing people and simply want what's best for their grandson and family. I never asked for the support, they just know what she is doing is wrong and cannot support it. They are babysitting our son for me while I'm working in their city and will help me in any way until this situation is resolved one way or another. She's already had a major falling out with them. Her mom told her she isn't welcome anymore and my WW said she is done with them forever. I know she blames me for this and just doesn't seem to understand why they aren't supporting her in this. Anybody with some logic would see why...

I know that maybe I shouldn't be accepting any help from them but I just can't help but think that I'd be a fool not to as it is for sure in my sons best interest seeing as they are insistent on helping. This would be regardless of how things turn out with my W. I do need to plan for a future regardless of what she does. I'd like to think that if the fog in her head lifts and she starts thinking straight again, she'll see who the real cause of it was.

Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

This is something I'm definitely guilty of lately. I'm making a concerted effort to not try to find out anymore as it's just making things harder for me to move on and GAL. It's really hard to not think about it though at times.

Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

I've been doing a good job of this lately in terms of acting as if I'm moving on. I'm no longer letting her walk on me or helping her with anything. The one thing I need to work on is being a little more upbeat in her presence as I find myself still at times being maybe a little bit to snippy, not really bad but I could be much better. Are there any tips for this?

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected.

This one goes right with the previous point of needing to be more upbeat around her even though I am not feeling it around her. I have actually been feeling happier lately, I just need to show it around her now.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

I do however feel horrible at times, thinking there is no possible way for this to turn around. Sometimes those thoughts just creep in and I can't help it. I'm pretty sure there are no real tips to help this other than time itself?

Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

I'm only guilty of this when she initiates it and I feel I have no choice, especially when it is due to bills and or our son. Not really sure of any other way around that? We do go most days with no contact whatsoever.


Now that we are physically separated (initiated by me to secure my own future and sanity regardless of outcome) there are only so many things that I can do in regards to DB'ing, but I do know that losses are coming for my WW one way or another. She's already lost her family due to her decisions and actions. She's lost all help from me for anything. She'll be losing her house and so many things she was so proud of having accomplished with it (she keeps saying she doesn't want it). She's not going to do as well financially as she thinks she is. She's going to have REAL difficulty raising our son on her own when it's her turn (she has yet to take him for her week...). She could even end up losing her business in the end if we do actually divorce. I wonder at what point she cracks? At what point does even someone with no logic see the utter idiocy of what they are doing? She can be a stubborn person but I can't see the full weight of all of this not hitting her at some point. Whether or not it comes with piecing us back together is another thing I suppose? It's something that scares me...

[TBSakaJ9]

Now that we are physically separated (initiated by me to secure my own future and sanity regardless of outcome) there are only so many things that I can do in regards to DB'ing,

I actually think it is easier to DB while separated. If your doing it right she will have plenty of opportunities to notice your changes and she will have all the space she needs.

Also......please stop snooping!

On a side note...not giving up hope is a difficult one. When my EW moved out I thought for sure my sitch would end differently. Initially your hopes are very high that they will return then gradually the flame gets a little dimmer and a little dimmer as the months go on. Eventually it becomes about the size of a pilot light, tucked away in the back of your heart held under lock and key. You can keep on hoping as long as you want but you can't let that hope hold you hostage and prevent you from moving forward.

Does that make sense?

[Bewas]

Now that we are physically separated (initiated by me to secure my own future and sanity regardless of outcome) there are only so many things that I can do in regards to DB'ing,

I actually think it is easier to DB while separated. If your doing it right she will have plenty of opportunities to notice your changes and she will have all the space she needs.

Also......please stop snooping!

On a side note...not giving up hope is a difficult one. When my EW moved out I thought for sure my sitch would end differently. Initially your hopes are very high that they will return then gradually the flame gets a little dimmer and a little dimmer as the months go on. Eventually it becomes about the size of a pilot light, tucked away in the back of your heart held under lock and key. You can keep on hoping as long as you want but you can't let that hope hold you hostage and prevent you from moving forward.

Does that make sense?

Was your EW WW as well? Did she just not snap out of it? Just wondering as obviously, everyone's situation turns out completely differently. Some seem to snap out of it after some months and others never. I guess there are no givens in anything.

It does make sense but your last paragraph is kind of chilling in a way to me. While I know that I cannot have any expectations in my situation, the uncertainty is killer. I think it's still so fresh to me that I still have hope left. I know that as the months go on, I'll get less hopeful and I suppose it will be easier to move on that way.

[TBSakaJ9]

You will detach and the both of you will drift farther and farther apart.

My EW has not snapped out of it yet and it has been over a year.

This is more about her than you. You can DB your ass off and some will not return. You can also not DB properly and they will return. That is why you can only focus on yourself. Your W is going to do what your W is going to do.

Over time your emotions will subside and you will realize how mentally exhausting it is to always be dwelling on her. Your appetite will come back, you will sleep again, and eventually the focus you had on getting her back will slowly diminish.

If you DB properly you will become stronger, you will view your W in a different light and then you will start to question whether or not you want her back based on how much damage she has caused.

[Bewas]

You will detach and the both of you will drift farther and farther apart.

My EW has not snapped out of it yet and it has been over a year.

This is more about her than you. You can DB your ass off and some will not return. You can also not DB properly and they will return. That is why you can only focus on yourself. Your W is going to do what your W is going to do.

Over time your emotions will subside and you will realize how mentally exhausting it is to always be dwelling on her. Your appetite will come back, you will sleep again, and eventually the focus you had on getting her back will slowly diminish.

If you DB properly you will become stronger, you will view your W in a different light and then you will start to question whether or not you want her back based on how much damage she has caused.

This is great advice. Thanks!

[TBSakaJ9]

YW.....I would also tell you that the longer you try to control it the harder things will be for you. You just have to let go and free fall.

[Bewas]

So I've been re-reading all of the DB'ing rules to dealing with my WW. I think I'm doing fairly well with most of them, however, I think I still need to work on some of them and could maybe use some advice.

"Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse."

For this one, I've told some select trusted friends and family members details of what's going on which I think is fine. The problem I'm having with this rule is the fact that her family has decided to side with me on this due to her actions and behavior which they've seen for themselves. She is a completely different person to them. They are absolutely amazing people and simply want what's best for their grandson and family. I never asked for the support, they just know what she is doing is wrong and cannot support it. They are babysitting our son for me while I'm working in their city and will help me in any way until this situation is resolved one way or another. She's already had a major falling out with them. Her mom told her she isn't welcome anymore and my WW said she is done with them forever. I know she blames me for this and just doesn't seem to understand why they aren't supporting her in this. Anybody with some logic would see why...

I know that maybe I shouldn't be accepting any help from them but I just can't help but think that I'd be a fool not to as it is for sure in my sons best interest seeing as they are insistent on helping. This would be regardless of how things turn out with my W. I do need to plan for a future regardless of what she does. I'd like to think that if the fog in her head lifts and she starts thinking straight again, she'll see who the real cause of it was.

Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

This is something I'm definitely guilty of lately. I'm making a concerted effort to not try to find out anymore as it's just making things harder for me to move on and GAL. It's really hard to not think about it though at times.

Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

I've been doing a good job of this lately in terms of acting as if I'm moving on. I'm no longer letting her walk on me or helping her with anything. The one thing I need to work on is being a little more upbeat in her presence as I find myself still at times being maybe a little bit to snippy, not really bad but I could be much better. Are there any tips for this?

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected.

This one goes right with the previous point of needing to be more upbeat around her even though I am not feeling it around her. I have actually been feeling happier lately, I just need to show it around her now.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

I do however feel horrible at times, thinking there is no possible way for this to turn around. Sometimes those thoughts just creep in and I can't help it. I'm pretty sure there are no real tips to help this other than time itself?

Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

I'm only guilty of this when she initiates it and I feel I have no choice, especially when it is due to bills and or our son. Not really sure of any other way around that? We do go most days with no contact whatsoever.


Now that we are physically separated (initiated by me to secure my own future and sanity regardless of outcome) there are only so many things that I can do in regards to DB'ing, but I do know that losses are coming for my WW one way or another. She's already lost her family due to her decisions and actions. She's lost all help from me for anything. She'll be losing her house and so many things she was so proud of having accomplished with it (she keeps saying she doesn't want it). She's not going to do as well financially as she thinks she is. She's going to have REAL difficulty raising our son on her own when it's her turn (she has yet to take him for her week...). She could even end up losing her business in the end if we do actually divorce. I wonder at what point she cracks? At what point does even someone with no logic see the utter idiocy of what they are doing? She can be a stubborn person but I can't see the full weight of all of this not hitting her at some point. Whether or not it comes with piecing us back together is another thing I suppose? It's something that scares me...

Any more input or advice on this would be more than welcome!

[Bewas]

I've already confronted her once about nude photos but should I do it again now that I know who it is?

I asked you once before what were the benefits. You guys just assumed that was my way of saying not to confront. It wasn't. I was asking you a legitmate question........which you never answered. In the end, you just had to confront her for the sake of your feelings. Okay, so now she knows that you know. How's that work'in for ya?

So, here I am asking you again what benefit do you get from confronting her? Did it stop her from posting nude photos when you confronted the first time? Apparently not. So what do you expect from a second confrontation? You are separated!!! What can you do about her posting naked photos? Not a flipping thing!

When she left you, she was saying that whatever she does in her life is none of your business. You have no control over how she conducts her life. Get it through your head.

Sandi,

I have a question for you. I've recently been re-reading your threads about the LBS with a WW and there is so much info there it can be difficult to absorb all of the information.

One thing that kind of concerned me during rereading the thread is the timeline to recovery discussed. I probably missed a lot of it but some of what was discussed was a really long time. I know you stated a little earlier in my thread that you feel there is a good chance she will want to reconcile at some point. Was there something about my sitch in particular that makes you think that? I know that there are NO givens at all in these situations and everyone and every sitch is different. I also know that I can only control myself, my W is going to do whatever my W wants to do and I shouldn't actually have any expectations. But in your opinion, what kind of rough timeline to reconcile is average if it happens? Many months? A year? More? Is it even possible to put an estimate on something like that? Is it actually just a stupid question I am asking?

I've been really working on changing myself for the better over the past month or so and I think I really have changed in many ways. Some have been forced by the sitch but others have been a want. I've become more decisive, more independent, stronger willed, I certainly do not let her walk on me anymore, I am starting to get out more, I'm in the best physical shape I've ever been in due to exercise (even before meeting her), in turn it has made me more confident. I've been working a lot lately while waiting to hear back from a bunch of applications sent out in my field. Is there anything more I should be doing or focusing on in your opinion?

I'm in the end, really just wanting to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible going forward.

Thanks!

[sandi2]

One thing that kind of concerned me during rereading the thread is the timeline to recovery discussed. I probably missed a lot of it but some of what was discussed was a really long time. I know you stated a little earlier in my thread that you feel there is a good chance she will want to reconcile at some point. Was there something about my sitch in particular that makes you think that? I know that there are NO givens at all in these situations and everyone and every sitch is different. I also know that I can only control myself, my W is going to do whatever my W wants to do and I shouldn't actually have any expectations. But in your opinion, what kind of rough timeline to reconcile is average if it happens? Many months? A year? More? Is it even possible to put an estimate on something like that? Is it actually just a stupid question I am asking?

No, it is not a stupid question at all. It's just impossible to answer.

I've been really working on changing myself for the better over the past month or so and I think I really have changed in many ways. Some have been forced by the sitch but others have been a want. I've become more decisive, more independent, stronger willed, I certainly do not let her walk on me anymore, I am starting to get out more, I'm in the best physical shape I've ever been in due to exercise (even before meeting her), in turn it has made me more confident. I've been working a lot lately while waiting to hear back from a bunch of applications sent out in my field. Is there anything more I should be doing or focusing on in your opinion?

It probably does no good to tell you not to be motivated to change based on getting back with her. So, I won't.

The emotionally attached H needs to really move on with his life. Whether she eventually returns or not......he wins. Do you know what I mean? You seriously need to find yourself, independent of a relationship. Everything about you was linked to the relationship with her, and if you don't put forth a lot of effort to make a permanent change (in whatever got you to that point of losing who you were as a man)....you'll repeat the same mistakes.

((hugs))

[Bewas]

One thing that kind of concerned me during rereading the thread is the timeline to recovery discussed. I probably missed a lot of it but some of what was discussed was a really long time. I know you stated a little earlier in my thread that you feel there is a good chance she will want to reconcile at some point. Was there something about my sitch in particular that makes you think that? I know that there are NO givens at all in these situations and everyone and every sitch is different. I also know that I can only control myself, my W is going to do whatever my W wants to do and I shouldn't actually have any expectations. But in your opinion, what kind of rough timeline to reconcile is average if it happens? Many months? A year? More? Is it even possible to put an estimate on something like that? Is it actually just a stupid question I am asking?

No, it is not a stupid question at all. It's just impossible to answer.

I've been really working on changing myself for the better over the past month or so and I think I really have changed in many ways. Some have been forced by the sitch but others have been a want. I've become more decisive, more independent, stronger willed, I certainly do not let her walk on me anymore, I am starting to get out more, I'm in the best physical shape I've ever been in due to exercise (even before meeting her), in turn it has made me more confident. I've been working a lot lately while waiting to hear back from a bunch of applications sent out in my field. Is there anything more I should be doing or focusing on in your opinion?

It probably does no good to tell you not to be motivated to change based on getting back with her. So, I won't.

The emotionally attached H needs to really move on with his life. Whether she eventually returns or not......he wins. Do you know what I mean? You seriously need to find yourself, independent of a relationship. Everything about you was linked to the relationship with her, and if you don't put forth a lot of effort to make a permanent change (in whatever got you to that point of losing who you were as a man)....you'll repeat the same mistakes.

((hugs))

Thanks Sandi!

I hear you loud and clear. I do feel I'll be a better person once this is all said and done regardless of how it turns out.

[Bewas]

I found out through my good friend today that she has been using Tinder. My friends brother (who also knows us well) texted him asking if myself and her were divorced because apparently a few of his friends during a conversation brought up the fact that one of them met her camping and another met her through Tnder. Apparently she's telling everyone she's already divorced. Doubt they know she has a small baby. My friends brother freaked and apparently told them she's married. Details weren't given other than that. I'm not surprised, still disgusted though. It makes a lot of sense now.

One really weird thing about yesterday though. I got a text from her claiming she wants to meet to discuss bills, separation, etc on Friday. Apparently, she no longer feels like going on a girls camping trip to the mountains with a bunch of her friends she's had planned for a couple months which was supposed to leave Friday. She also wants our son for the whole weekend instead which is weird as she hasn't really wanted him lately. I can't help thinking there is an ulterior motive to her wanting him. I can't put my finger on it. Also seems so unlike her to not want to go on the trip. I'm wondering if it's maybe too expensive for her now. I've already told her I had plans Friday and I'll have to see what I can do. I'm thinking of maybe not meeting her and pushing it later. I shouldn't have to adjust my schedule for her and she should know that.

Any thoughts or advice on these new developments?

Thanks

[joejoe1]

B,

You and your W are on different schedules and timelines, if hers inconveniences you, then reschedule. You should not jump and fill her every wish and demand. She has decided she doesnt want you for that.

Dont worry about her being on tinder. I know it will be hard, but its time to distance and detach yourself, so news like hearing about her on tinder will roll off your back like water.

[ovrrnbw]

I found out through my good friend today that she has been using Tinder. My friends brother (who also knows us well) texted him asking if myself and her were divorced because apparently a few of his friends during a conversation brought up the fact that one of them met her camping and another met her through Tnder. Apparently she's telling everyone she's already divorced. Doubt they know she has a small baby. My friends brother freaked and apparently told them she's married. Details weren't given other than that. I'm not surprised, still disgusted though. It makes a lot of sense now.

One really weird thing about yesterday though. I got a text from her claiming she wants to meet to discuss bills, separation, etc on Friday. Apparently, she no longer feels like going on a girls camping trip to the mountains with a bunch of her friends she's had planned for a couple months which was supposed to leave Friday. She also wants our son for the whole weekend instead which is weird as she hasn't really wanted him lately. I can't help thinking there is an ulterior motive to her wanting him. I can't put my finger on it. Also seems so unlike her to not want to go on the trip. I'm wondering if it's maybe too expensive for her now. I've already told her I had plans Friday and I'll have to see what I can do. I'm thinking of maybe not meeting her and pushing it later. I shouldn't have to adjust my schedule for her and she should know that.

Any thoughts or advice on these new developments?

Thanks

My first reaction is "forget" her. I'm pissed just reading that about the Tinder stuff.

Ask her why she wants your kid the whole weekend. If she can't explain it clearly, she's manipulating you.

What friends was she to go camping with? Good people who wouldn't approve of her behavior?

Do you have to meet f2f to discuss those things? It seems like she wants to see you squirm.

[ovrrnbw]

Oh yea, and the Tinder is going to bother you. You, like me, are not detached yet. Keep trying brother.

[Bewas]

I found out through my good friend today that she has been using Tinder. My friends brother (who also knows us well) texted him asking if myself and her were divorced because apparently a few of his friends during a conversation brought up the fact that one of them met her camping and another met her through Tnder. Apparently she's telling everyone she's already divorced. Doubt they know she has a small baby. My friends brother freaked and apparently told them she's married. Details weren't given other than that. I'm not surprised, still disgusted though. It makes a lot of sense now.

One really weird thing about yesterday though. I got a text from her claiming she wants to meet to discuss bills, separation, etc on Friday. Apparently, she no longer feels like going on a girls camping trip to the mountains with a bunch of her friends she's had planned for a couple months which was supposed to leave Friday. She also wants our son for the whole weekend instead which is weird as she hasn't really wanted him lately. I can't help thinking there is an ulterior motive to her wanting him. I can't put my finger on it. Also seems so unlike her to not want to go on the trip. I'm wondering if it's maybe too expensive for her now. I've already told her I had plans Friday and I'll have to see what I can do. I'm thinking of maybe not meeting her and pushing it later. I shouldn't have to adjust my schedule for her and she should know that.

Any thoughts or advice on these new developments?

Thanks

My first reaction is "forget" her. I'm pissed just reading that about the Tinder stuff.

Ask her why she wants your kid the whole weekend. If she can't explain it clearly, she's manipulating you.

What friends was she to go camping with? Good people who wouldn't approve of her behavior?

Do you have to meet f2f to discuss those things? It seems like she wants to see you squirm.

I'm thinking I am going to ask her why she wants him all of the sudden. I'm just so curious...I highly doubt it's just because she "wants" to see him.

The people who she was to go camping with were her "old" friends from before this mess. So yeah, I'm pretty sure they do not approve and would not approve of what she is doing. Probably why she is getting cold feet about trip. Still doesn't explain wanting our son...you think she'd be using the time to go on Tinder dates...

Hmm, we probably don't need to talk face to face but I'm reluctant to talk with her at all over the phone unless absolutely necessary due to her having a phone call recorder installed on her phone. I know that from our previously shared google account. Just protecting myself. Not that I would be saying anything bad but just in case. I'm not so sure it's about getting me to squirm, although maybe, the thing is, I'm fairly sure she knows she has nothing on me anymore and can't control me, so maybe it's an attempt to get some back. No idea.

[Bewas]

Oh yea, and the Tinder is going to bother you. You, like me, are not detached yet. Keep trying brother.

It does bother me, but not as much as I thought it would if that makes sense? I guess I've already resigned myself to the fact that she's become a sl#t overnight and there is nothing I can do about it. I knew she was doing something, this just absolutely confirmed it.

[Bewas]

B,

You and your W are on different schedules and timelines, if hers inconveniences you, then reschedule. You should not jump and fill her every wish and demand. She has decided she doesnt want you for that.

Dont worry about her being on tinder. I know it will be hard, but its time to distance and detach yourself, so news like hearing about her on tinder will roll off your back like water.

Yeah, I'm still deciding what to do in regards to meeting her. Not too sure yet.

I know, it doesn't really change much that I know she is on Tinder, it just confirms it. It doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would. I mean it does to a degree, but I hope to get to the level of not caring at all soon.

[mtb1981]

Yeah, I dealt with the Tinder thing with my W too. This was several months ago during the period of time she had me tricked into thinking she wanted to work on things. A friend of mine gave me the heads up when he crossed her profile. She of course fed me a bunch of BS that her and a friend both got the app just to see what it was all about and make fun of it. Whatever. When I really thought about it, it actually made detachment easier. Why would I want to be with someone that is actively looking to hook up with other people? Answer... I don't. I deserve better than that...

[Bewas]

Yeah, I dealt with the Tinder thing with my W too. This was several months ago during the period of time she had me tricked into thinking she wanted to work on things. A friend of mine gave me the heads up when he crossed her profile. She of course fed me a bunch of BS that her and a friend both got the app just to see what it was all about and make fun of it. Whatever. When I really thought about it, it actually made detachment easier. Why would I want to be with someone that is actively looking to hook up with other people? Answer... I don't. I deserve better than that...

For sure...I definitely deserve better than this.

[ovrrnbw]

Bewas, you should consider getting a call recording app too. Just in case.

[Bewas]

Bewas, you should consider getting a call recording app too. Just in case.

Sounds like a plan.

[Bewas]

There's been another falling out between my W and one of the last few members of her family still in contact with her and willing to help her out a little. She's been told she isn't welcome there anymore. Apparently she was just using them and they got tired of it. It kind of saddens me to see her doing this to herself. Kind of like how you see and addict spiraling out of control that you can't help. I'm still bewildered even now how someone can change so completely seemingly overnight and push everyone away who actually cared about them.

One thing that really bothers me about this is that of course, she'll blame me for all of it regardless. She thinks I'm feeding them all of these lies, etc, when it's actually her own actions and how she behaves around them that have turned them on her and in turn, she's turned on them. Her mom actually thought and asked her right at the beginning of all of this (when she initially told them) if she was cheating on me...and my W flew off the handle at that question. I guess that shows how much her family think of me. That's when things started to go south between them. All they really know from me are the basics of the situation.

I suppose the simple fact that her family would be willing to help me out regardless of the situation as long our son is my priority (my W knows this) would be enough for her to be angry with me even though, you'd think someone would actually start to question themselves in this case as to why everyone is turning on them...but I guess WW aren't capable of rational thought and are quick to blame everyone but themselves, especially the H.

I'm seeing her tomorrow to discuss some bill arrangements and to drop off our son for her first week with him since this has started. I guess I'm wondering, is it even worth me trying to explain her family situation to her to set things straight? Or would that just make it worse in that she wouldn't believe me anyways? Should I just stay the course in complete detachment and let her realize for herself at some point that she herself is the one to blame for the entire situation? She just seems to be going more and more off the rails every day and I can't help but think that this is a huge part of it.

[joejoe1]

B,

Please don't get in the way. Let her go. This is her journey. Don't try to explain her family situation. That's not you role or job, she had to figure this out on her own without you in her way to blame.

Oh, and if you try to explain to her she just will spew and show nothing but anger towards you. You are right, she won't believe you.

[Bewas]

B,

Please don't get in the way. Let her go. This is her journey. Don't try to explain her family situation. That's not you role or job, she had to figure this out on her own without you in her way to blame.

Oh, and if you try to explain to her she just will spew and show nothing but anger towards you. You are right, she won't believe you.

Yea, I figured that is the best course of action. It just [censored] because I can't help but think that every time her parents watch our son for me while I'm working (which my W knows) or do anything for me whatsoever it will just push her farther away. I guess when I think about it though, she really couldn't be any farther away anyways at this point and I perhaps shouldn't worry about it so much. It's all her doing anyways when it comes down to it. She's reaping what she's sowed I suppose.

[Bewas]

So yesterday was very very interesting.

We had decided that I was to drop off our son for the weekend and the whole week (finally!) due to her cancelling her "girls trip" to the mountains. I ended driving him back to our house where she is still currently staying. She had also stated that she wanted to discuss separation stuff like bills, etc.

When I got there, I noticed she had actually cleaned up the house a little, got things for our son that he'll need for daycare that he will soon be attending, she had even got groceries! I also noticed she had got an entire pizza for herself...which is odd as it had seemed like she had been basically starving herself lately and had gotten super thin. She at first didn't really seem to have a different attitude towards me. Still pretty standoffish and not friendly. Still the same old, "we should get things moving with the divorce", etc etc. But not seemingly doing anything about it herself. I'm certainly not lifting a finger when it comes to that any time soon unless forced.

As we got to discussing bills, I made it clear pretty early on in the conversation that she was to stop talking condescendingly towards me and show respect or else I am leaving and we would have to discuss another day. It actually kind of worked...I was surprised. I ended up having to "lay the law" down a couple times when it came to our bills as I had actually already calculated everything out myself and knew what was what so when she was trying to get me to pay for part of the bills from her shop, I had to put a stop to that pretty quick. I do hope I wasn't too stern, I wasn't angry or anything, just decisive and matter of fact. I made it known to her several times that this is the path she's chosen and it's her problem now, not mine. I also wasn't trying to be unfair or anything. I was also upbeat and laughed at things and smiled and played with my son.

I made it very clear that there were to be no renters in our house so long as my things are there and I am paying my half of the mortgage. I told her I'm not paying anything other than mortgage, land tax, etc. She didn't seem to like that idea but doesn't have much choice other than to move out then. (which all of the sudden doesn't seem to be on her radar) I had heard earlier last week through the grapevine she had asked someone to rent out our basement without asking me about it! Seriously... I can definitely sense that her finances are not going according to plan. I just have this feeling that she thought she would be so much better off without me that way because she somehow thought I didn't do anything and just leeched money (sigh, how stupid)...hopefully she is seeing that wasn't the case now.

Once the house bill discussions were finished I noticed she seemed very tired. She had put our son down for a nap and then she just slumped in the couch and had this kind of far away look in her eyes even though she was on her phone. Whether I should have or not, I did ask her "if you don't mind me asking, why didn't you go on that girls trip, you had wanted to go on that since before all this happened?" She replied, "I never really did want to go on that trip." To which I was kind of surprised. Then the real revelation...She stated "it's all been too much and I actually have been seeing a councilor" !!! I said that that is good thing and left it at that.

I went about getting a few more things done and a little bit later, I went back into our living room to let her know I'm leaving. When I went to the living room and I saw her on the couch...she just looked so very very tired and how should I put it...defeated. This is the first time I've seen so much damage in her armor since this started.
My parting words to her were, "I'm glad you are seeking counselling, you truly need it and I hope they can help you see some sense, goodbye." I spoke very calmly. She didn't even quip back or anything. Just looked at me kind of forlorn and again just seemed kind of defeated.

I'm trying to not look into this too deeply but is this perhaps the beginning of her at least understanding there is a problem with herself and not just me? If she is telling the truth about counselling, maybe it's possible. Is she perhaps starting to feel the weight of everything she's done? I think this week will be very telling in she has our son all by herself with no help at all. It will not be easy for her. Something I did every day while also working. I guess we shall see.

I 100% "won" the day in my opinion as I was the one leaving with my head held high. It felt good to not be walked on. It however, didn't really feel good to see her so defeated, even after all she's done. I guess that's normal human empathy.

A question I have is, would it be a good idea for me to text her something positive at all this week? Something along the lines of "For what it's worth, I'm glad you took our son for the week, he does need his mom." Or is that something I shouldn't do? If not that, would it be ok at least for me to check up on him after a few days? Like just text, "how has he been?" I am genuinely concerned about him and want to know...

Did I handle everything properly? Is my WW finally showing signs of cracking? Am I looking to much into this? Any advice and thoughts on this would be so very helpful.

Oh, and a last parting question...if she is seeking counselling as she says, is that actually a good thing for me as I'm not actually there to defend myself? Or will they just validate her and make me look worse? Anyone with any experience in this?

Thanks!

[mtb1981]

Remember Sandi's rule... Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does...

Don't read too much into any of it. Just keep on DB'ing. If she is softening up, it's too early to know. You'll know when she's ready, but it isn't right now...

[joejoe1]

B,

IMO, next time, I would layoff the comments about it being good that she is seeing a counselor.

You dis a good job sticking to your guns

Also, do ask her any questions about her life. It's hers and when she is ready to tell you about it she will.

In my opinion she is not sofening she is just wore down. Shes putting on an act that's hard to maintain.

You will know she is sofening when her attitude towards you lighten up.

One thing I suspect might be happening as well is her fantasy is crashing and reality is starting to kick her but some. But you have to start making smart remarks and stop being inquisitive about her life. Let the process Work. Get out of her way and let her go!

[Bewas]

Remember Sandi's rule... Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does...

Don't read too much into any of it. Just keep on DB'ing. If she is softening up, it's too early to know. You'll know when she's ready, but it isn't right now...

Yeah, i know I shouldn't read too much into it. I agree, she isn't softening yet.

[Bewas]

B,

IMO, next time, I would layoff the comments about it being good that she is seeing a counselor.

You dis a good job sticking to your guns

Also, do ask her any questions about her life. It's hers and when she is ready to tell you about it she will.

In my opinion she is not sofening she is just wore down. Shes putting on an act that's hard to maintain.

You will know she is sofening when her attitude towards you lighten up.

One thing I suspect might be happening as well is her fantasy is crashing and reality is starting to kick her but some. But you have to start making smart remarks and stop being inquisitive about her life. Let the process Work. Get out of her way and let her go!

Ok, so I'll stop making remarks about counselling and anything else to do with her personal life. I haven't really lately at all, just when I asked about her trip, but I shall refrain in the future.

I agree with you that she is probably just getting worn down right now.

Is it ok to check in on my son to see how he is doing at least once a week or something? I'm not sure on this?

Thanks

[Bewas]

So, yet more new developments last night.

She has now apparently blocked my account on FB for some reason. I'm trying to figure out why. I don't post often but I have been posting things with our son and a few things I've been up to. Nothing to do with her, just kind of my new gal stuff. Maybe she just doesn't want to see it or me doing things? Or maybe she doesn't want me to see what she is doing? Which if she doesn't want me to see what she's doing, that's stupid because she posts mostly through Instagram anyways and I can see all of that even if I didn't have an account.

I did notice however a photo that she posted on there through Instagram that had my son and one of her new besties which I despise...Maybe she didn't want me seeing that. I don't know. I'm more concerned now that she'll be hiding things from me in regards to our son too. I suppose I shouldn't bring this up with her either right?

Also, I found out from yet another person she's STILL trying to rent out part of our house even after I told her I was having none of that. How does she think she will get away with that? I'll never agree to a renter to help her out so long as I'm paying half the mortgage and my stuff is there. It's not happening. I thought I made it very clear the other day it wasn't something I was ok with. I guess it's like talking to a wall or something. Very frustrating.

She definitely isn't softening yet. Maybe getting worn down because she is losing control, but I think this is far from over.

[Bewas]

So, yet more new developments last night.

She has now apparently blocked my account on FB for some reason. I'm trying to figure out why. I don't post often but I have been posting things with our son and a few things I've been up to. Nothing to do with her, just kind of my new gal stuff. Maybe she just doesn't want to see it or me doing things? Or maybe she doesn't want me to see what she is doing? Which if she doesn't want me to see what she's doing, that's stupid because she posts mostly through Instagram anyways and I can see all of that even if I didn't have an account.

I did notice however a photo that she posted on there through Instagram that had my son and one of her new besties which I despise...Maybe she didn't want me seeing that. I don't know. I'm more concerned now that she'll be hiding things from me in regards to our son too. I suppose I shouldn't bring this up with her either right?

Also, I found out from yet another person she's STILL trying to rent out part of our house even after I told her I was having none of that. How does she think she will get away with that? I'll never agree to a renter to help her out so long as I'm paying half the mortgage and my stuff is there. It's not happening. I thought I made it very clear the other day it wasn't something I was ok with. I guess it's like talking to a wall or something. Very frustrating.

She definitely isn't softening yet. Maybe getting worn down because she is losing control, but I think this is far from over.

Just a little bump for some advice.

[OrangeK]

Regarding the house rental situation.
You set your boundary and told her about it. Stick to it.

In regards to everything else, Stop looking. Stop snooping. It only hurts, it doesnt help, and makes you seem weak when you (and you will eventually TRUST ME) bring up something and confront her about a social media post.
this well be translated to "OMG look how hes is stalking me and keeping tabs on me CREEPY!!" when she smears you to her friends.

Do yourself a favor, dont go on her IG, Snapchat, FB, Pinterest or anything else.
Nothing but pain comes of it, i have broken this rule several times and paid dearly for it.

I still have the illicit photos and videos WIFE had been sending to people in the past. I have kept them as a back-pocket thing in case i ever need proof of infidelity, but knowing they are there to look at gets very hard sometimes.
I gave the flashdrive containing them to my Sister in law for safe keeping, so i wouldnt be tempted.

Best advice, just stay the hell away from all of it.
Its snooping and pursuit. Refer back to Sandi's 37 Rules.
youre just hurting yourself bro.

[Bewas]

Regarding the house rental situation.
You set your boundary and told her about it. Stick to it.

In regards to everything else, Stop looking. Stop snooping. It only hurts, it doesnt help, and makes you seem weak when you (and you will eventually TRUST ME) bring up something and confront her about a social media post.
this well be translated to "OMG look how hes is stalking me and keeping tabs on me CREEPY!!" when she smears you to her friends.

Do yourself a favor, dont go on her IG, Snapchat, FB, Pinterest or anything else.
Nothing but pain comes of it, i have broken this rule several times and paid dearly for it.

I still have the illicit photos and videos WIFE had been sending to people in the past. I have kept them as a back-pocket thing in case i ever need proof of infidelity, but knowing they are there to look at gets very hard sometimes.
I gave the flashdrive containing them to my Sister in law for safe keeping, so i wouldnt be tempted.

Best advice, just stay the hell away from all of it.
Its snooping and pursuit. Refer back to Sandi's 37 Rules.
youre just hurting yourself bro.

This is yet again, great advice. I'm not actually so much concerned with looking at her stuff anymore as I had been. Just more curious as to the reason she would have blocked me all of the sudden. Can't figure out if it's to keep me from seeing her stuff or to keep her from seeing my stuff as I've been GAL lately? I suppose it could be both.

I want to ask her why but I won't as that wold just make me seem weak as you've said.

[Bewas]

So I've been thinking,

She is fast running out of support from anyone in her life who truly matters. She's pushed almost her entire family away and she doesn't have much contact with her old friends anymore.

About the only people in her life nowadays are her new "friends". I know for a fact that I'm dragged through the mud to them and of course they are going to validate her in those opinions.

I guess what I'm wondering is, at the end of the day, how important of a factor is that going to be? If she does end up cracking at some point, will she see them for what they really are? Especially if she starts maybe not seeing me as the absolute enemy anymore?

I know there isn't anything I can do about, just wondering how it's gone in some other situations for you guys in regards to this.

Thanks!

[Bewas]

So I've been thinking,

She is fast running out of support from anyone in her life who truly matters. She's pushed almost her entire family away and she doesn't have much contact with her old friends anymore.

About the only people in her life nowadays are her new "friends". I know for a fact that I'm dragged through the mud to them and of course they are going to validate her in those opinions.

I guess what I'm wondering is, at the end of the day, how important of a factor is that going to be? If she does end up cracking at some point, will she see them for what they really are? Especially if she starts maybe not seeing me as the absolute enemy anymore?

I know there isn't anything I can do about, just wondering how it's gone in some other situations for you guys in regards to this.

Thanks!

In addition to this question, I have another to add.

I've been very stern with her lately, very matter of fact. I've have been using words in our discussions like "I don't care, it's your problem to deal with now, not mine". I'm not angry when I'm talking, but is that a good choice of words to say "I don't care"? Should I be using alternate wording?

[joejoe1]

You are correct using "i don't care", isnt the best choice of words.

From now on validate her and say something like, I understand how that might make you feel and repeat the feeling she expresses. If she say mad, sad, angry, upset, tired, just repeat. And leave it at that. You are showing you understand as well as not showing the negative of not caring. Validating is not agreeing, it's just understanding.

And yes, check up on your son. Children are outside of DBing. Knowing hownis doing is a must.

And as for as her new friends, let her go with them, when Sh!t hit the fan let's see if those friends will still be there. When she need them, lets see who she reaches out too. Let her go. It's her LIFE and her CHOICES, allow her to deal with both without you getting in her way.

[Bewas]

You are correct using "i don't care", isnt the best choice of words.

From now on validate her and say something like, I understand how that might make you feel and repeat the feeling she expresses. If she say mad, sad, angry, upset, tired, just repeat. And leave it at that. You are showing you understand as well as not showing the negative of not caring. Validating is not agreeing, it's just understanding.

And yes, check up on your son. Children are outside of DBing. Knowing hownis doing is a must.

And as for as her new friends, let her go with them, when Sh!t hit the fan let's see if those friends will still be there. When she need them, lets see who she reaches out too. Let her go. It's her LIFE and her CHOICES, allow her to deal with both without you getting in her way.

I guess there is still so much I need to learn. The form of validation you laid out is something I read about earlier but forgot I guess. I think that would work so much better than saying "I don't care" while still holding my ground and keeping my boundary.

So I guess I'll send her a quick text in the next few days just asking how our son is doing. I really do want to know he is ok.

I do completely agree about her friends not really being there for her when she will truly need them. I see them as just using her anyways.

Thanks for the advice!

[STH17]

This is yet again, great advice. I'm not actually so much concerned with looking at her stuff anymore as I had been. Just more curious as to the reason she would have blocked me all of the sudden. Can't figure out if it's to keep me from seeing her stuff or to keep her from seeing my stuff as I've been GAL lately? I suppose it could be both.

I want to ask her why but I won't as that wold just make me seem weak as you've said.

I think the simple answer and all you really need to know right now is that she blocked you because she wanted to block you. I snoozed my wife and a couple of her friends on FB a couple weeks ago. It has helped me not worry so much about her. Your W made a choice to block you. You don't have to make the same choice. You don't have to let her choices influence any that you make for yourself. How will you choose to live your life and grow to be the man you want to be?

[Bewas]

This is yet again, great advice. I'm not actually so much concerned with looking at her stuff anymore as I had been. Just more curious as to the reason she would have blocked me all of the sudden. Can't figure out if it's to keep me from seeing her stuff or to keep her from seeing my stuff as I've been GAL lately? I suppose it could be both.

I want to ask her why but I won't as that wold just make me seem weak as you've said.

I think the simple answer and all you really need to know right now is that she blocked you because she wanted to block you. I snoozed my wife and a couple of her friends on FB a couple weeks ago. It has helped me not worry so much about her. Your W made a choice to block you. You don't have to make the same choice. You don't have to let her choices influence any that you make for yourself. How will you choose to live your life and grow to be the man you want to be?

Well I suppose that is definitely the simplest answer. Of course she did it because she wanted to. I guess I'm just trying to delve into her mind a little too much at times. A lot of the things she does make no sense most of the time. She's apparently also blocked one of her brothers as well. Oh well.

[Maika]

You're trying to speculate and mind-read and you're not going to get an answer without asking her straight up. So, let it go. Take the simple answer and leave it at that. Trying to mind read and obsess over such stuff is not going to get you anywhere.

[SteveLW]

This is yet again, great advice. I'm not actually so much concerned with looking at her stuff anymore as I had been. Just more curious as to the reason she would have blocked me all of the sudden. Can't figure out if it's to keep me from seeing her stuff or to keep her from seeing my stuff as I've been GAL lately? I suppose it could be both.

I want to ask her why but I won't as that wold just make me seem weak as you've said.

I think the simple answer and all you really need to know right now is that she blocked you because she wanted to block you. I snoozed my wife and a couple of her friends on FB a couple weeks ago. It has helped me not worry so much about her. Your W made a choice to block you. You don't have to make the same choice. You don't have to let her choices influence any that you make for yourself. How will you choose to live your life and grow to be the man you want to be?

Well I suppose that is definitely the simplest answer. Of course she did it because she wanted to. I guess I'm just trying to delve into her mind a little too much at times. A lot of the things she does make no sense most of the time. She's apparently also blocked one of her brothers as well. Oh well.

When my niece left her husband, she blocked a lot of people on FB. I am not on FB but apparently there is a way to "block" people where they don't know they've been blocked or something? You don't see their updates or something. IDK, but she did this because there were people in her life on FB that wouldn't just blindly accept what she was doing. WAWs want acceptance and enablement, and cut out anyone from their life that doesn't provide that.

[Bewas]

You're trying to speculate and mind-read and you're not going to get an answer without asking her straight up. So, let it go. Take the simple answer and leave it at that. Trying to mind read and obsess over such stuff is not going to get you anywhere.

I know, you are correct. I wasn't planning on bringing it up or asking her anyways.

[OrangeK]

Bewas. Please, take it from someone with FAR more EXP in the field of pointless pursuit and mind reading, It simply isnt worth it.
I know its SO HARD to resist, i still struggle hard with this, it has taken countless sleepless nights and a whole lot of damn pain to get to the point where i realize ALL it does to mind read is keep you in the addiction loop.

Your brain is chemically hooked on WW, for the 5 min of relief (or more pain depending on what you see when you snoop)
you will cause yourself hours and days of needless pain.

In regards to the "I dont care" stuff, it still "shows" emotion.
If you really didnt care, you wouldnt need to voice that. It would be evident in your responses or lack there of.
Theres no need to be mean, callous, or (like i have a tendency to do) be passive aggressive and sarcastic.
It gets you nowhere.

How often do you read Sandi's rules?
They didnt REALLY start (i sya start because i still have miles to go in this regard) to sink in until i was reading them daily.
Or anytime i would start to spiral out of control.

Being STRICT with yourself about these things is your best way forward.

The faster you stick to this regimen, and REALLY STICK to it, the faster you will detach, and heal. and when that happens is when you may see the results you hope for.

I still have to wait and truly detach, I expect no good results, but im detaching for ME. not her.

One thing that helped me was to stop thinking in these terms, at all. Nothing but danger down this path,
"If i Do X will WW notice? what will her reaction be?"
"Why would WW say/post/text that?"
"Does she miss me?"
"XYZ proves she is still thinking of me"
"Does she regret this?"
or anything to that effect.

This is a hurdle i am still in the air clearing, ill let you know if i smash my knee on the hurdle. lol.

[Bewas]

This is yet again, great advice. I'm not actually so much concerned with looking at her stuff anymore as I had been. Just more curious as to the reason she would have blocked me all of the sudden. Can't figure out if it's to keep me from seeing her stuff or to keep her from seeing my stuff as I've been GAL lately? I suppose it could be both.

I want to ask her why but I won't as that wold just make me seem weak as you've said.

I think the simple answer and all you really need to know right now is that she blocked you because she wanted to block you. I snoozed my wife and a couple of her friends on FB a couple weeks ago. It has helped me not worry so much about her. Your W made a choice to block you. You don't have to make the same choice. You don't have to let her choices influence any that you make for yourself. How will you choose to live your life and grow to be the man you want to be?

Well I suppose that is definitely the simplest answer. Of course she did it because she wanted to. I guess I'm just trying to delve into her mind a little too much at times. A lot of the things she does make no sense most of the time. She's apparently also blocked one of her brothers as well. Oh well.

When my niece left her husband, she blocked a lot of people on FB. I am not on FB but apparently there is a way to "block" people where they don't know they've been blocked or something? You don't see their updates or something. IDK, but she did this because there were people in her life on FB that wouldn't just blindly accept what she was doing. WAWs want acceptance and enablement, and cut out anyone from their life that doesn't provide that.

Yeah, they just block you and you cannot connect with them in any way until they unblock you. They cannot see your posts and you cannot see theirs. You are not notified of it.

She definitely seeks to be enabled wherever possible but has been pretty much cut off from everyone at this point other than her new "friends". It's pretty sad tbh.

[Bewas]

Bewas. Please, take it from someone with FAR more EXP in the field of pointless pursuit and mind reading, It simply isnt worth it.
I know its SO HARD to resist, i still struggle hard with this, it has taken countless sleepless nights and a whole lot of damn pain to get to the point where i realize ALL it does to mind read is keep you in the addiction loop.

Your brain is chemically hooked on WW, for the 5 min of relief (or more pain depending on what you see when you snoop)
you will cause yourself hours and days of needless pain.

In regards to the "I dont care" stuff, it still "shows" emotion.
If you really didnt care, you wouldnt need to voice that. It would be evident in your responses or lack there of.
Theres no need to be mean, callous, or (like i have a tendency to do) be passive aggressive and sarcastic.
It gets you nowhere.

How often do you read Sandi's rules?
They didnt REALLY start (i sya start because i still have miles to go in this regard) to sink in until i was reading them daily.
Or anytime i would start to spiral out of control.

Being STRICT with yourself about these things is your best way forward.

The faster you stick to this regimen, and REALLY STICK to it, the faster you will detach, and heal. and when that happens is when you may see the results you hope for.

I still have to wait and truly detach, I expect no good results, but im detaching for ME. not her.

One thing that helped me was to stop thinking in these terms, at all. Nothing but danger down this path,
"If i Do X will WW notice? what will her reaction be?"
"Why would WW say/post/text that?"
"Does she miss me?"
"XYZ proves she is still thinking of me"
"Does she regret this?"
or anything to that effect.

This is a hurdle i am still in the air clearing, ill let you know if i smash my knee on the hurdle. lol.

This is such amazing advice, Thanks OrangeK! I know you've had a rough go of this and to hear your perspective of what not to do is always welcome.

It is hard to resist at times...but I actually have been much better about it lately. My snooping quite often a month ago has become almost no looking now. I was just curious as to why she would block me but that's just me mind reading and pointless. However...when I did look last, I found out she was trying to rent out part of my house from under me AGAIN...which is serious and nothing to do with DB'ing imo. Not trying to justify snooping because I know I need to stop completely regardless and deal with situations like the above as they come I guess.

Yeah, in terms of the "I don't care", I completely forgot about the form of validation I'm supposed to use when dealing with situations where I normally would use an "I don't care". I do think I've at times been a little passive aggressive, less so lately, just more stern. But I'm going to try the validation method next time I interact with her. I think it will be much more effective while not giving up ground.

I read Sandi's Rules but not every day. I think I'll need to start. It will help speed up my detachment. (which is happening more and more every day I feel) I have been going long periods without thinking about her anymore. Sometimes triggers still happen of course but not nearly as much as even a few weeks ago.

Of all the terms to think of you laid out, honestly, the only one I've been asking lately is "Why would WW say/post/text/ that?". I guess at times I do wonder if she'll notice something but it hasn't been the catalyst for me as much as just improving myself and getting someone else if need be, lol. I hate to admit it but I've been thinking of that more and more lately. I know she doesn't miss me right now, i know she isn't thinking of me, and I know she probably doesn't regret this right now so I have no point in asking those questions and I haven't been. The only regret she would have right now is for herself and the situation she's got herself into. Whether that changes remains to be seen I suppose.

Thanks and good luck to you clearing that hurdle!

[Bewas]

So not much new today on the sitch front.

She did text me this evening asking if I could take him earlier than anticipated this week. Friday evening instead of Sunday evening because she apparently works on Saturday. To her credit she said if I couldn't take him, she would have to get a sitter. I have plans already for the weekend and asked her to just try to find a sitter this time to which she agreed. I wasn't going to adjust my plans for her anyways unless it's an emergency.

I did end up asking her how our son was doing. I knew he was probably ok, just kind of needed to hear it. She said he was doing great and I said that's good to hear and left it at that.

[SteveLW]

Nothing wrong with asking about your S. In fact, this is where a lot of DBers get NC wrong. No Contact means you don't discuss anything BUT the kids with the WAS. Just don't ask how she is doing. Ever.

[Bewas]

Nothing wrong with asking about your S. In fact, this is where a lot of DBers get NC wrong. No Contact means you don't discuss anything BUT the kids with the WAS. Just don't ask how she is doing. Ever.

Yeah, it was something I wasn't sure on. I'm glad it's ok to occasionally check in on my S to make sure he is ok.

I'll have to make sure to not ask her about anything in her life. I guess I did kind of screw up a little when I asked her last weekend why she didn't go on the girls trip she was planning for months. I did find out she is "apparently" seeking counselling by asking that, which is interesting but I'm not sure it's true or not. All it did in the end is show I'm probably still interested at least a little to her.

I feel I'm now much better armed for our next interaction.

I'm assuming it's ok for me to ask her of her plans to move out or stay in the house though right? I'm not talking about harassing her about it or even going out of my way to ask, just when I see her and maybe bring it up. I kind of need to know stuff like that moving forward.

We haven't placed our home up for sale yet but I'm wondering if that's maybe something that should be done sooner rather than later? I don't think the reality of losing her home has fully hit her yet. She's done nothing to look for a place on her own. I personally don't care anymore, as I've decided to never go back to the town we lived in regardless. My W and I had talked in the past quite often about moving to where I am living and am going to stay from now on. I'll be happier here regardless. If she decides to come back, she would have to move to where I am. It's actually something she wanted way more than me in the past anyways I suppose.

I personally at this point have not lifted a finger in regards to divorce proceedings or even talked about it unless forced to. I'm letting her do all the hard work in regards to that. At least right now. I may hit the point months down the line if this continues and want to do it myself...

[Bewas]

Nothing wrong with asking about your S. In fact, this is where a lot of DBers get NC wrong. No Contact means you don't discuss anything BUT the kids with the WAS. Just don't ask how she is doing. Ever.

Yeah, it was something I wasn't sure on. I'm glad it's ok to occasionally check in on my S to make sure he is ok.

I'll have to make sure to not ask her about anything in her life. I guess I did kind of screw up a little when I asked her last weekend why she didn't go on the girls trip she was planning for months. I did find out she is "apparently" seeking counselling by asking that, which is interesting but I'm not sure it's true or not. All it did in the end is show I'm probably still interested at least a little to her.

I feel I'm now much better armed for our next interaction.

I'm assuming it's ok for me to ask her of her plans to move out or stay in the house though right? I'm not talking about harassing her about it or even going out of my way to ask, just when I see her and maybe bring it up. I kind of need to know stuff like that moving forward.

We haven't placed our home up for sale yet but I'm wondering if that's maybe something that should be done sooner rather than later? I don't think the reality of losing her home has fully hit her yet. She's done nothing to look for a place on her own. I personally don't care anymore, as I've decided to never go back to the town we lived in regardless. My W and I had talked in the past quite often about moving to where I am living and am going to stay from now on. I'll be happier here regardless. If she decides to come back, she would have to move to where I am. It's actually something she wanted way more than me in the past anyways I suppose.

I personally at this point have not lifted a finger in regards to divorce proceedings or even talked about it unless forced to. I'm letting her do all the hard work in regards to that. At least right now. I may hit the point months down the line if this continues and want to do it myself...

In addition the above, Do you think that even if my W struggles pretty badly with our S for her first whole week with him by herself (which I think she will tbh), she probably won't say anything to me about it I'm assuming? Even just out of pride? I also have been pretty unwilling to offer help of any kind lately as well...

Thoughts?

[Bewas]

Nothing wrong with asking about your S. In fact, this is where a lot of DBers get NC wrong. No Contact means you don't discuss anything BUT the kids with the WAS. Just don't ask how she is doing. Ever.

Yeah, it was something I wasn't sure on. I'm glad it's ok to occasionally check in on my S to make sure he is ok.

I'll have to make sure to not ask her about anything in her life. I guess I did kind of screw up a little when I asked her last weekend why she didn't go on the girls trip she was planning for months. I did find out she is "apparently" seeking counselling by asking that, which is interesting but I'm not sure it's true or not. All it did in the end is show I'm probably still interested at least a little to her.

I feel I'm now much better armed for our next interaction.

I'm assuming it's ok for me to ask her of her plans to move out or stay in the house though right? I'm not talking about harassing her about it or even going out of my way to ask, just when I see her and maybe bring it up. I kind of need to know stuff like that moving forward.

We haven't placed our home up for sale yet but I'm wondering if that's maybe something that should be done sooner rather than later? I don't think the reality of losing her home has fully hit her yet. She's done nothing to look for a place on her own. I personally don't care anymore, as I've decided to never go back to the town we lived in regardless. My W and I had talked in the past quite often about moving to where I am living and am going to stay from now on. I'll be happier here regardless. If she decides to come back, she would have to move to where I am. It's actually something she wanted way more than me in the past anyways I suppose.

I personally at this point have not lifted a finger in regards to divorce proceedings or even talked about it unless forced to. I'm letting her do all the hard work in regards to that. At least right now. I may hit the point months down the line if this continues and want to do it myself...

In addition the above, Do you think that even if my W struggles pretty badly with our S for her first whole week with him by herself (which I think she will tbh), she probably won't say anything to me about it I'm assuming? Even just out of pride? I also have been pretty unwilling to offer help of any kind lately as well...

Thoughts?

Just kind of a bump for the above questions/observations.

I was asked to go to a golf driving range with my brother and sister in law last night. My goodness did it trigger way too many memories for me considering I taught my W how to golf...it was very difficult. More difficult than I thought. I guess I still have a ways to go towards detaching completely.

I've been getting this feeling that I should be checking in on my house more than I have been...I just cannot trust her in regards to either my things which are mostly still there or her having people over which I do not approve of being in my house, I feel I should have the right to restrict who enters my home considering I'm still paying for it do I not? Any thoughts on this?

The last few days I've been thinking that the only way I'll be able to let her go fully is to find somebody else...I've just felt so lonely and that is when the thoughts start to creep in. I also feel on the other hand that it is way too early to be jumping to someone else. I'm very confused right now as the situation just feels so hopeless right now with her. I've seen a potential wearing down of her but then the next day I'm blocked on FB. I have no idea what to think anymore. My mind is like a yo-yo at times, jumping from a scr#w you W mode to a wanting her back and forgiveness mode. I've been avoiding the idea till now but is it a bad idea to go on even just some friendly dates?

I just feel very lonely and lost today...

[SteveLW]

I would not say anything to her about moving out. Also, you moved out to give her space. Don't start micromanaging. Most here will agree that you SHOULDN'T move out, but now that you did you can't act like you still live there.

If you want to do anything, move back home. Take back the MBR. She can either stay or go from the MBR. (Many here will advocate booting her from the MBR if she is in an active A, but you don't seem sure of that.)

And no she probably won't admit that she struggles with S for a few days. WHy does that matter?

[Bewas]

I would not say anything to her about moving out. Also, you moved out to give her space. Don't start micromanaging. Most here will agree that you SHOULDN'T move out, but now that you did you can't act like you still live there.

If you want to do anything, move back home. Take back the MBR. She can either stay or go from the MBR. (Many here will advocate booting her from the MBR if she is in an active A, but you don't seem sure of that.)

And no she probably won't admit that she struggles with S for a few days. WHy does that matter?

Yea...the only reason I did start staying somewhere else is that it fit my situation for the future far better than staying. Way more opportunity for me if I stay where I am currently, especially job wise. I suppose that it would have been better to stay in regards to the situation with my W but there were other concerns to think of as well. I'm not "technically" moved out as I haven't moved any of my things or even said I was moved out. Just been staying somewhere else for now.

I could move back, or even move back part time I suppose (a day or two a week), there is nothing she could do about it. Maybe I should do that so I can go over all my things and kind of assess them anyways. I am as of now not sure of any active A's. I'm sure there was though at some point.

It doesn't really matter I suppose if she does struggle with our S. It is just another reality of the situation she's caused for herself though.

Thanks for the input Steve!

[Bewas]

The last few days I've been thinking that the only way I'll be able to let her go fully is to find somebody else...I've just felt so lonely and that is when the thoughts start to creep in. I also feel on the other hand that it is way too early to be jumping to someone else. I'm very confused right now as the situation just feels so hopeless right now with her. I've seen a potential wearing down of her but then the next day I'm blocked on FB. I have no idea what to think anymore. My mind is like a yo-yo at times, jumping from a scr#w you W mode to a wanting her back and forgiveness mode. I've been avoiding the idea till now but is it a bad idea to go on even just some friendly dates?

Just throwing this one out there again...

[TBSakaJ9]

My personal advice would be to not do it. IMO you need fully heal and learn to be on your own and be happy on your own before you entertain being with someone else.

I would recommend that you don't short change the process and heal through another person. This should be one of the most motivating and rewarding times of your life, an opportunity to come out on the other side stronger than ever and I would hate for you to not do the work and take full advantage of this opportunity.

With that said if you chose to do it then I would recommend that you be completely honest with the person and let them know what you can offer. Also, if you chose to do it please don't short change the process.

I did not start to date until a year after my W moved out and our D was finalized for about 2 months. For me I drew strength from waiting.

[LoneWlf]

Bewas- I feel you should not add another person to you life when you head space and and heart space are under turmoil. That being said - consider your self as a plant and one of your branches has been pruned. First thing that must take place is the healing of the severed area. Once the severed area is covered and healed then the plant continues to function. After a certain period of time when all healing is finalized then you will see a small bud forming in the same spot or some where close fostering growth of a new branch. B- just like the plant we are severed ( Broken relationship). just like the plant we need to heal and become functional and healthy. Once this is completed we are ready for new growth. Hope this helps. Stay well!

[OrangeK]

Bewas - I was really overcome with the desire to get out and meet someone else, it was all i was thinking of for a solid few weeks.
Then i got on the dating Apps.
It was just another distraction, and most women i talked to would turn tail because i insisted on being transparent about my Sitch.
I did meet a few and went on a few dates, at first all i could do was compare them to WIFE.
Then I had a few decent dates, and eventually hooked up with a fellow Mid-Divorcee.
We still talk here and there, but we hang out twice after hooking up.
It just wasn't the right time.
Once the excitement wore off (quickly), i think we both realized we have little in common and are both better off just doing our own thing.

I have since resolved to leave it all be.
I deleted my dating apps, and i am resolved to meet the next woman in my life organically and by chance.

They say "when you arent looking for love is when love finds you"
This is actually how i would delightfully explain my meeting WIFE, but that was before i knew she stalked and targeted me and chose to engage with me, when i thought it was just "Serendipity" we met.
I havent given up hope on TRUE LOVE finding me when I am ready, and not expecting it.
I dont think what WIFE did will happen to me again, lightning rarely strikes the same place twice.
However I am much better educated and aware of the red flags to look for should it happen again.

Moral of the story,
Dont find someone new to GET OVER your EX.
Someone will find you when you have gotten over your EX and your value is displayed.
I dont know how they do it, but women can smell a broken heart like a bomb dog.

[Bewas]

My personal advice would be to not do it. IMO you need fully heal and learn to be on your own and be happy on your own before you entertain being with someone else.

I would recommend that you don't short change the process and heal through another person. This should be one of the most motivating and rewarding times of your life, an opportunity to come out on the other side stronger than ever and I would hate for you to not do the work and take full advantage of this opportunity.

With that said if you chose to do it then I would recommend that you be completely honest with the person and let them know what you can offer. Also, if you chose to do it please don't short change the process.

I did not start to date until a year after my W moved out and our D was finalized for about 2 months. For me I drew strength from waiting.

This is good advice. There is a large part of me that is screaming at me to not do anything right now because it's too soon. It's the smaller, more unreasonable lonely part of me that is screaming the opposite. You make a great point in saying not to "heal through another person", I think that is a great way of putting it. I am feeling better at being alone, it's more the being "happy" alone right now that's the problem.

I think for now, I'm not going to do anything and let the process play itself out for awhile before attempting to date. I guess it's only been a little over a month and a half...anything can happen yet. The damage a WW can do in that short a period is staggering though.

I'm not sure I'd be able to wait a whole year to date tbh. I'll probably re-evaluate my sitch month to month and go from there. How the next few months play out is anyone's guess.

[Bewas]

Bewas- I feel you should not add another person to you life when you head space and and heart space are under turmoil. That being said - consider your self as a plant and one of your branches has been pruned. First thing that must take place is the healing of the severed area. Once the severed area is covered and healed then the plant continues to function. After a certain period of time when all healing is finalized then you will see a small bud forming in the same spot or some where close fostering growth of a new branch. B- just like the plant we are severed ( Broken relationship). just like the plant we need to heal and become functional and healthy. Once this is completed we are ready for new growth. Hope this helps. Stay well!

LoneWlf, this is an amazing way of putting it. thank you!

[Bewas]

Bewas - I was really overcome with the desire to get out and meet someone else, it was all i was thinking of for a solid few weeks.
Then i got on the dating Apps.
It was just another distraction, and most women i talked to would turn tail because i insisted on being transparent about my Sitch.
I did meet a few and went on a few dates, at first all i could do was compare them to WIFE.
Then I had a few decent dates, and eventually hooked up with a fellow Mid-Divorcee.
We still talk here and there, but we hang out twice after hooking up.
It just wasn't the right time.
Once the excitement wore off (quickly), i think we both realized we have little in common and are both better off just doing our own thing.

I have since resolved to leave it all be.
I deleted my dating apps, and i am resolved to meet the next woman in my life organically and by chance.

They say "when you arent looking for love is when love finds you"
This is actually how i would delightfully explain my meeting WIFE, but that was before i knew she stalked and targeted me and chose to engage with me, when i thought it was just "Serendipity" we met.
I havent given up hope on TRUE LOVE finding me when I am ready, and not expecting it.
I dont think what WIFE did will happen to me again, lightning rarely strikes the same place twice.
However I am much better educated and aware of the red flags to look for should it happen again.

Moral of the story,
Dont find someone new to GET OVER your EX.
Someone will find you when you have gotten over your EX and your value is displayed.
I dont know how they do it, but women can smell a broken heart like a bomb dog.

This is very very good information OrangeK.

I don't think I'll be opposed to dating apps when the time is right, I think it's just not now. I think I'm seeing from all of the responses so far that it is way too soon for me to be delving into this. I think it's important I asked the question though as it was something that had been bothering me lately especially.

I do love the line of "Someone will find you when you have gotten over your EX and your value is displayed". Hopefully this will be sooner rather than later for me. lol

Thanks!

[ovrrnbw]

Bewas,

I have to say that I would continue to detach. If there is every a chance to get her back it is really to let her go. I listed to a podcast of the show Relationship Alive with Neil Sattin. He hosted Chris Selter of exboyfriendrecovery.com. His mission is just what his website name is. He collects data on millions of breakups and the number 1 way people got their ex back was by letting go of them and not contacting them. Crazy right? [censored] right?

You ready to do what works? I spent so much time trying to make sense of the things that will never make sense. I should have focused that energy on my GAL and detachment and my boundaries. Bc my WW came back, but then ran off when I made it so easy for her.

You aren't ready to date. Period. You just want a distraction, understandably so. Focus on healing and improvement instead.

[Bewas]

Bewas,

I have to say that I would continue to detach. If there is every a chance to get her back it is really to let her go. I listed to a podcast of the show Relationship Alive with Neil Sattin. He hosted Chris Selter of exboyfriendrecovery.com. His mission is just what his website name is. He collects data on millions of breakups and the number 1 way people got their ex back was by letting go of them and not contacting them. Crazy right? [censored] right?

You ready to do what works? I spent so much time trying to make sense of the things that will never make sense. I should have focused that energy on my GAL and detachment and my boundaries. Bc my WW came back, but then ran off when I made it so easy for her.

You aren't ready to date. Period. You just want a distraction, understandably so. Focus on healing and improvement instead.

I am ready to do what works and I have slowly been detaching. I'm not quite 100% there yet at detachment but it is getting closer. I also know that none of what she does makes any sense so it's best to not dwell.

I know I'm not ready to date. It's the lonely part of me that comes out sometimes that wants to. My head and heart both know I'm not ready yet. I'll wait till I'm healed. I think only I'll know when that is.

Thanks for your amazing advice!

[SteveLW]

The issue of dating comes up quite often on the forum, and it is a natural instinct to start dating when the WS is out gallivanting around. The temptation is also there from a "I can use dating to get over S" standpoint. The problem is it doesn't usually work that way. Also dating adds complications to the S. It can have a negative impact on R chances, and it is generally a bad idea. Also it isn't really fair to people you are dating to thrust them into an emotional situation especially if you haven't fully dealt with your emotional baggage from your sitch.

My advice is to stay away from it until you are D'd, and have emotionally moved on from your S.

However, everyone's sitch is different and not all rules apply to everyone, but OK's sitch is a perfect example. I hope OK doesn't mind me saying this, but I don't think he was emotionally ready when he took the plunge, and that became apparent after he took the plunge. The "I need to touch something soft" is a base instinct that as humans, believe it or not, we CAN control. We aren't animals who give in to every whim our body chemistry throws at us. We are rational, sentient beings that can process our thoughts and emotions in a way where our actions are still under control. Anyone that tells you otherwise has an agenda that they are playing too. Usually an "I want what I want" agenda.

I'll try to type some more regarding some ground rules for dating once it appears your MR is over, but this is already too long!

[sandi2]

The last few days I've been thinking that the only way I'll be able to let her go fully is to find somebody else...I've just felt so lonely and that is when the thoughts start to creep in. I also feel on the other hand that it is way too early to be jumping to someone else. I'm very confused right now as the situation just feels so hopeless right now with her.

You do not need to get into a rebound relationship. I would hate to fall for a man and then learn that he had used me to get over his wife. You need to get out of your house and get a life. GAL.....don't get a relationship. Do you have any buddies? What do you do for fun? Sports, hobbies, adventures?

Just a suggestion, but you might want to checkout a few videos on co-dependency. Your quote above sounds like a person who doesn't know how to make himself happy and needs to be in a relationship to give him an identity.

[Bewas]

The issue of dating comes up quite often on the forum, and it is a natural instinct to start dating when the WS is out gallivanting around. The temptation is also there from a "I can use dating to get over S" standpoint. The problem is it doesn't usually work that way. Also dating adds complications to the S. It can have a negative impact on R chances, and it is generally a bad idea. Also it isn't really fair to people you are dating to thrust them into an emotional situation especially if you haven't fully dealt with your emotional baggage from your sitch.

My advice is to stay away from it until you are D'd, and have emotionally moved on from your S.

However, everyone's sitch is different and not all rules apply to everyone, but OK's sitch is a perfect example. I hope OK doesn't mind me saying this, but I don't think he was emotionally ready when he took the plunge, and that became apparent after he took the plunge. The "I need to touch something soft" is a base instinct that as humans, believe it or not, we CAN control. We aren't animals who give in to every whim our body chemistry throws at us. We are rational, sentient beings that can process our thoughts and emotions in a way where our actions are still under control. Anyone that tells you otherwise has an agenda that they are playing too. Usually an "I want what I want" agenda.

I'll try to type some more regarding some ground rules for dating once it appears your MR is over, but this is already too long!

Thanks Steve!

You put it a great way and when I really think about it, it wouldn't be fair to try and date someone with the mindset I have right now. It definitely would be baggage at this point as I'm for sure not emotionally ready. I think it was as you say, the chemical "loneliness" and human desire that was creeping in on me. I guess it's still WAY too soon to know if my MR is actually over or not. It's only been a little over a month and a half so anything can happen yet. I suppose I have seen at least a wearing down of W to this point, so who knows. Maybe she will still come to her senses. Maybe the weight of reality is starting to bear down on her now, who knows? If I did throw someone else into the mix, that would just way complicate things for everybody involved.

I'll just continue to focus on healing myself and detaching more and more.

Great advice like this is why I post here! It does truly help.

I look forward to your "post MR " dating advice

[Bewas]

The last few days I've been thinking that the only way I'll be able to let her go fully is to find somebody else...I've just felt so lonely and that is when the thoughts start to creep in. I also feel on the other hand that it is way too early to be jumping to someone else. I'm very confused right now as the situation just feels so hopeless right now with her.

You do not need to get into a rebound relationship. I would hate to fall for a man and then learn that he had used me to get over his wife. You need to get out of your house and get a life. GAL.....don't get a relationship. Do you have any buddies? What do you do for fun? Sports, hobbies, adventures?

Just a suggestion, but you might want to checkout a few videos on co-dependency. Your quote above sounds like a person who doesn't know how to make himself happy and needs to be in a relationship to give him an identity.

Hi Sandi!

"Rebound" is exactly what it would be...and I think the message is loud and clear to me that it isn't what would be good for me or fair to anyone that I would date right now. The way you put it "used me to get over his wife" is pretty powerful to me and something I wouldn't ever want to do to someone. In a way, I feel I'd be stooping to my W's current level if I did that.

I have been GAL. Actually a lot lately. I've been getting out a doing things almost every day, usually with good friends or family. Exercise and getting outdoors have been hugely great for me. I'm now EASILY in the best physical shape of my entire life and I wasn't exactly a slouch in that department to begin with. I'm still not quite to the point where some of my previous hobbies are interesting to me again. Such as when I went golfing with some of my family the other day, it triggered a lot of "memories" of my W as I taught her how to golf and made it hard to focus. On the other hand, I went to a movie with some friends earlier this week and was actually able to enjoy and focus throughout the entire movie which was a first for me since this all started. So that was progress I think

I will check out some videos on co-dependency like you suggest but I do think I know how to make myself happy, it's just not all there yet. I was a happy independent person before I met my W and I think I can be again after my W regardless of what happens. It is definitely a process though...especially after being one part of what I thought was a solid whole for 12 years, to being ripped from that whole and now feeling like half a person. I'll get to feeling whole myself again, it will just take longer than a month and a half.

Thanks so much for the advice Sandi!

[Bewas]

Heard from a family member today that W has changed her Instagram name to just her first and middle names. Apparently her FB name is still the same. I didn't look at this myself, haven't been snooping and am trying not to look into this too much or mind read but it is just another one of her social media distancing moves of late.

My thoughts right now are that I would love nothing more than to just sit down with her and explain everything to her and try to just talk to her like we used to. Find out why in the h#ll she would actually do this. FULL DISCLOSURE, This is just what I would love to do, not what I'm going to do. It's just the rational part of me that's craving that understanding right now. I don't even think she truly knows why she is doing this tbh. I know that it would accomplish nothing but set me all the way back to square one both with her and with my own detachment. This limbo period of pulling completely back and "going dark" can be tough to manage at times.

Sigh...one day at a time. It is slowly getting easier.

[bhappy2]

Bewas, I have read your sitch and sorry you are going through this but its time for you. Call some friends and start going out and doing things. The GAL aspect of this process is quite amazing when fully realized. It has changed me forever and I am currenlty getting invited to friends of friends parties that I dont even know.

You found a paper in the garbage? Really... now you are a detective, then you had to decipher it... Bewas get it together NOW.

Get your mind off your W, the sooner the better. And to the person who is offering you info about W on the social media name change, I would simply say thank you but from this point on I would prefer you keep that info to yourself, what is going on between me and my W is a private matter. Then I would block her on every single outlet, period end of story. You are moving on right?

[Bewas]

Bewas, I have read your sitch and sorry you are going through this but its time for you. Call some friends and start going out and doing things. The GAL aspect of this process is quite amazing when fully realized. It has changed me forever and I am currenlty getting invited to friends of friends parties that I dont even know.

You found a paper in the garbage? Really... now you are a detective, then you had to decipher it... Bewas get it together NOW.

Get your mind off your W, the sooner the better. And to the person who is offering you info about W on the social media name change, I would simply say thank you but from this point on I would prefer you keep that info to yourself, what is going on between me and my W is a private matter. Then I would block her on every single outlet, period end of story. You are moving on right?

Hi bhappy2,

I have been GAL a lot lately. Still finding my way through it a little but it's getting easier every day. I can imagine it gets great once you hit your stride with it and aren't dwelling on things anymore.

Not sure what you mean about finding a paper in the garbage? I think that may have been someone else's sitch you are referring to? Not saying I haven't tried deciphering things (mostly social media stuff) but that wasn't me in this case

I wish I could COMPLETELY cut her out of my life, but due to our son, I'll always have to deal with her in some capacity. I agree with you though, I do need to be moving on regardless.

Thanks!

[bhappy2]

Yes I did mix up the other persons with you...sorry about that.

[Bewas]

Yes I did mix up the other persons with you...sorry about that.

No worries, I kinda figured it was a mix up

[sandi2]

I have been GAL a lot lately. Still finding my way through it a little but it's getting easier every day. I can imagine it gets great once you hit your stride with it and aren't dwelling on things anymore.

From the LBS success stories I remember, they all claimed that when they started GAL like there was no tomorrow, that's when their life got better. Even those who wrote back and said although the D wasn't busted, they were doing really well due to GAL. In fact, many of them said they were better than just doing "well".......they were happy!

[Bewas]

I have been GAL a lot lately. Still finding my way through it a little but it's getting easier every day. I can imagine it gets great once you hit your stride with it and aren't dwelling on things anymore.

From the LBS success stories I remember, they all claimed that when they started GAL like there was no tomorrow, that's when their life got better. Even those who wrote back and said although the D wasn't busted, they were doing really well due to GAL. In fact, many of them said they were better than just doing "well".......they were happy!

Yeah, i definitely feel better when I'm GAL. I'm actually out go kart racing today with friends. Something I've never done before. I still at times feel anxiety when I'm out. It's still hard to completely control. I do know that it is the best way forward for me regardless of what happens. I'm glad to hear that being truly happy again is something I can look forward to if I keep it up

Thanks Sandi!

[sandi2]

I do know that it is the best way forward for me regardless of what happens. I'm glad to hear that being truly happy again is something I can look forward to if I keep it up smile

That's why I appreciate former members coming back and telling newbies how there is life after S/D.

[Bewas]

I do know that it is the best way forward for me regardless of what happens. I'm glad to hear that being truly happy again is something I can look forward to if I keep it up smile

That's why I appreciate former members coming back and telling newbies how there is life after S/D.

For sure, I think newbies like me come here in such a dark and lonely place that its hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. To get the perspective of those who have both had their situations saved or not and still turn out happy and living good lives is awesome!

Thanks Sandi!

And now I think it's time to start a new thread. Will start a new one soon.

[Bewas]

Link to Part 3: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2801329&#Post2801329