WAW, MLC, or Both? Or Maybe WW? Need Help With How

[Bewas]

I was glancing back over your thread and saw something I must have missed previously.

One thing I remember that I kind of brushed off and now think has much more meaning is that when she initially dropped the bomb on me, I was crying of course, doing all the wrong things because of shock, I remember seeing little "smirks" on the side of her mouth she was trying really hard to stop. I yelled at her why she is smiling and she said she wasn't and then would turn her head. I'm thinking she was almost enjoying it looking back. That really seems like something a WW would do...it actually sickens me thinking about it now.

This says volumes about the status of your relationship. If she was trying to hide her smiles at watching your obvious gut wrenching pain........this woman is in deep. Her heart is not just cold.......it is frozen.

She hasn't really stated she "wants" in house separation, she just agreed to it fairly readily.

Let me tell you something, Bewas. You are struggling with accepting the reality about your W and the crisis of your MR. At first, you couldn't decide if she was wayward b/c you didn't have solid evidence of an A. An affair does not really determine if she is wayward. The waywardness begins in her heart/mind, and an affair is her outward rebellion against her M........just like some other actions are a sign of rebellion.

She hasn't really stated she "wants" in house separation, she just agreed to it fairly readily.

So now, you are saying that she really hasn't said the words "in-house separation". I think you are in denial and don't want to accept the truth. She agreed b/c she benefits from it. It eating cake for her. She has a built-in baby sitter, cook, and homemaker. She can go out at night and behave like Girls Gone Wild (GGW) and then go home and go to bed without having to deal with any responsibilities as a mother and wife. You are holding down the fort, while she goes out on the town.

You are living in-house S, whether or not the words were said. She wants a D, you begged her to stay, she is sleeping in a separate bed, and she often threatens to leave.

I found it unbelievable when she actually had the audacity to accuse me of being "spiteful" for acting like I was...I was like, seriously?? I suppose that's their own messed up brain twisting the narrative to their favor

Absolutely, she will twist everything around. Here is where H's mess up, b/c they get distracted (which is exactly what she wanted) and the attention on his behavior instead of hers. He starts trying to convince her he wasn't doing whatever she accuses.........and it is totally beside the point. She is the wayward spouse! You don't have to stand there and give her an excuse for how you reacted to her waywardness. Stay focused. If she says something about your attitude or actions, say nothing. Just give her a dry or nonchalant look and say nothing about your feelings or actions. This is not about you......it is about her!

I know going forward I cannot be afraid of her or fear her actually filing for the D, but I definitely will not help her with it.

What scares you the most? What could be worse than what you are experiencing right now? What will you lose that you haven't lost already? I'm not trying to be callous, just wanting you to talk about your fears. If you get a job, you'll probably give up at least 8 hrs a day with your son. If you split with her, you may lose 50% time with him. If I had to guess, that is your biggest fear, b/c your love & attachment is very deep. Just leaving him to go to a job every day would be difficult for you. I have a lot of empathy for you. None of this is what you want to face, but know your fear by name.....and how to face it. FWIW, we are here to support you as best that we can. We will share what we have learned, and hopefully, spare you a lot of mistakes and this MR can be saved. Realistically, there are no guarantees. She has a will of her own and you can't control her. However, your actions can be influential.

I want you to read a short little page on detachment. It's short & simple. Go to the top of your page to Search and type the word Peanut and enter. If you see my name in the list, click on it and see if it takes you to a copy of Peanut's definition of DB detaching. If it doesn't work, let me know.

Your first step is to learn what DB detaching really means. Implement the 37 rules. Any questions about them, ask me. The next thing we need to discuss is boundaries.

Thanks Sandi for all of your input and advice. I think it will be essential to me going forward.

I'll start from the top of your post and continue down.

In terms of her smirking during BD, I think that's what they were, again, I can't be 100% sure but that's what it seemed. Regardless, it was the coldness and determination of her that day was what was most scary. My question is, if in fact did smirk and take pleasure in my pain and is in fact as deep as you think, does this make my position that much worse or does it not really change my position either way as she is wayward regardless?

In terms of me accepting the reality of my crisis, I no longer question the waywardness of my W. I still don't think she is actually in an A at this point but I agree, all her other actions are waywardness of heart. Even if she is in an A and is hiding it extremely well, it doesn't change the fact that I know she is a WW and I have my work cut out for me.

I think I misworded when i said she didn't say she wanted in house separation. She had definitely stated we are separated. What I meant was, she initially wanted to move out asap and get a new mortgage but when that wasn't going to happen easily she decided to have an in house separation with me for financial reasons. At the time it was my suggestion and I was surprised by how easily she agreed especially considering I thought it was benefiting me more than her at the time. I agree with you in the fact that she is cake eating. It for sure benefits her to not leave even though she threatens it often and then does nothing about it. I think she does actually want it right now as long as it will last. You are 100% correct in the fact she is cake eating and we are definitively in an in house S.

Yes, I definitely need to work on my reactions towards her when she questions me or tries goading me into a fight. I've looked over the dB detaching article and it's a great resource and something I need to work on.

Now in terms of what my biggest fear is. While losing my son full time and what this is going to do to him long term are major fears of mine, what seems to keep me up at night the most is the fear of having to start my life over again basically from scratch. It scares me. It scares me I may never find another person as amazing as she WAS. It scares me we could basically lose everything we've worked so hard for in the D. I know I need to be confident in myself going forward to overcome these fears but it's very difficult at this stage right now. But I agree with what you said, i really can't feel any worse than what I'm feeling right now.

I know there are no guarantees in this but I have to at least try and save this MR. As i stated earlier, I've looked over the dB detaching thread you said to and will study it.

I know for sure I need help with boundaries and consequences.

Thanks you for your continued help and guidance Sandi, it's going to really help me through this. I really need a solid plan of attack going forward.

[Bewas]

bewas, you really struck on something with the "gung ho on looking for a house and mortgage". Likely it was too much work. WWs are notoriously lazy about following through on things.

I've been seeing this a lot on the board and it finally made something make sense to me. My W said she was going to move out and was never really making to much of an effort. When I found out about the A, I told her to leave and she lived out of the van for about a month before she found a place. Whenever our sitch was discussed, I always said she decided to leave. Her version was that I kicked her out. My reply was always, no, you said you wanted a separation and were going to move out. You walked out on me and the kids. Her response to that was, she was "actively" looking for a place and I kicked her out. Any time it was brought up, the word "actively" was alway placed in front of looking for a place. In hindsight, it makes me wonder if she was ever going to move out or if it was all a bunch of BS or too much work. Sometimes I wonder where we'dbe if I didn't aske her to leave. At the same time, she was banging other dudes, so she had to go...

Its interesting you bring the fact that you wonder how your situation would be if you hadn't kicked her out. At this point, I have no evidence of an A with my W, even though I do believe 100% she is wayward at least of heart. I've been seriously considering asking her to leave (immediately at that) myself as the disrespect towards me is getting hard to stomach. She's the one always threatening to leave anyways. I just feel she needs to know her actions have consequences and things aren't going to be as easy as she thinks. I've been the nice guy for far too long and she has no respect for me anymore so this might at least give me some of my balls back. I am still deciding however if this is the best option right now or not.

[sandi2]

I have been thinking about starting a thread that gives a Plan of Action for the H of a WW. Maybe I'll work on it tomorrow, will see.

Did you find that page from copied from Peanut on detaching?

Okay, to start explaining boundaries (and I am not an expert), you first have to understand what they are and what they aren't. Think of a personal boundary like an invisible circle around you. This circle is to protect your feelings. Anything that crosses over that line, disrespects you.

You are the one who decides what is offensive/disrespectful to you. This should be based on your standards of values, principles, morals, religious beliefs, integrity, self respect, etc. If something offends you, then there should be a reason it is offensive. In other words, don't just go by whatever you feel that day, b/c emotions can be fickle. When it comes to your boundaries, they should not really change unless your beliefs change to support it. Does that make sense?

You cannot control other people actions. You only control yourself. In a relationship, you can tell the other person their actions are disrespectful toward you. They have the choice of honoring your boundary, or ignoring it. If you can't control anyone but yourself, what happens if your boundary is disrespected after you tell the other person their actions are offensive? You respond with some type of action.

Let's bring it on down to a MR. To clarify by using the word "action", this is not to be interpreted as meaning you respond in any type of violence or abuse. If necessary, take the action to leave.

I believe most WW's have to experience some type of consequences when she shows disrespect to her H. The first time, he can tell her that is disrespectful and he will not tolerate it. The second time it happens, he needs to be ready to respond with some type of action that will result as a consequence for her.......in order to be effective. Of course, he can always walk away or leave the house, but he can't do that for everything or she'll just see him "running away", and interpret it as weakness (depending on the situation). And for nice guys, they have to watch their tendency to be passive-aggressive.

To use an example of a enforcing a boundary, let's say the WW calls her H and is yelling, cursing, and b'tching at him. He tells her he will not tolerate being spoken to over the phone in that disrespectful manner. She ignores him and continues to raise he!!. Does he warn her again? No! What can he do? He hangs up! If she calls again and starts the same stuff, he hangs up and doesn't answer again. No arguing, no negotiation, no more warnings.

That was a simple one, and the bigger the offense, the bigger the consequence should be. Some people might argue that it is punitive. I suppose you will have to make that decision. You are protecting yourself by doing something that clearly gives her the message that you will not be treated in that disrespectful manner. She doesn't have to agree or like it. She doesn't have to do it, but if she ignores your one warning......then there will be some action from you that protects your feelings from her disrespect.

Never say you will not tolerate some behavior, if you can't stand behind your word. In the link on boundaries, I think they use an example of the boundary "I will not stay in an open MR". Some newcomers with a WW in an A thought they would jump right on that one. Well guess what? The A did not stop and the newcomers were trying to back peddle, b/c they were not ready to carrying through with what they said.

What makes you feel disrespected? (You don't have to list those things here). Women can show disrespect for their H in many ways. The passive nice guy settles for her bad treatment, and some day she's showing him disrespect in front of his kids, his friends, his parents, his boss, strangers......and it gets worse as time goes on. We teach people how to treat us.

If you have questions, please ask.

[Bewas]

I have been thinking about starting a thread that gives a Plan of Action for the H of a WW. Maybe I'll work on it tomorrow, will see.

Did you find that page from copied from Peanut on detaching?

Okay, to start explaining boundaries (and I am not an expert), you first have to understand what they are and what they aren't. Think of a personal boundary like an invisible circle around you. This circle is to protect your feelings. Anything that crosses over that line, disrespects you.

You are the one who decides what is offensive/disrespectful to you. This should be based on your standards of values, principles, morals, religious beliefs, integrity, self respect, etc. If something offends you, then there should be a reason it is offensive. In other words, don't just go by whatever you feel that day, b/c emotions can be fickle. When it comes to your boundaries, they should not really change unless your beliefs change to support it. Does that make sense?

You cannot control other people actions. You only control yourself. In a relationship, you can tell the other person their actions are disrespectful toward you. They have the choice of honoring your boundary, or ignoring it. If you can't control anyone but yourself, what happens if your boundary is disrespected after you tell the other person their actions are offensive? You respond with some type of action.

Let's bring it on down to a MR. To clarify by using the word "action", this is not to be interpreted as meaning you respond in any type of violence or abuse. If necessary, take the action to leave.

I believe most WW's have to experience some type of consequences when she shows disrespect to her H. The first time, he can tell her that is disrespectful and he will not tolerate it. The second time it happens, he needs to be ready to respond with some type of action that will result as a consequence for her.......in order to be effective. Of course, he can always walk away or leave the house, but he can't do that for everything or she'll just see him "running away", and interpret it as weakness (depending on the situation). And for nice guys, they have to watch their tendency to be passive-aggressive.

To use an example of a enforcing a boundary, let's say the WW calls her H and is yelling, cursing, and b'tching at him. He tells her he will not tolerate being spoken to over the phone in that disrespectful manner. She ignores him and continues to raise he!!. Does he warn her again? No! What can he do? He hangs up! If she calls again and starts the same stuff, he hangs up and doesn't answer again. No arguing, no negotiation, no more warnings.

That was a simple one, and the bigger the offense, the bigger the consequence should be. Some people might argue that it is punitive. I suppose you will have to make that decision. You are protecting yourself by doing something that clearly gives her the message that you will not be treated in that disrespectful manner. She doesn't have to agree or like it. She doesn't have to do it, but if she ignores your one warning......then there will be some action from you that protects your feelings from her disrespect.

Never say you will not tolerate some behavior, if you can't stand behind your word. In the link on boundaries, I think they use an example of the boundary "I will not stay in an open MR". Some newcomers with a WW in an A thought they would jump right on that one. Well guess what? The A did not stop and the newcomers were trying to back peddle, b/c they were not ready to carrying through with what they said.

What makes you feel disrespected? (You don't have to list those things here). Women can show disrespect for their H in many ways. The passive nice guy settles for her bad treatment, and some day she's showing him disrespect in front of his kids, his friends, his parents, his boss, strangers......and it gets worse as time goes on. We teach people how to treat us.

If you have questions, please ask.

Hi Sandi,
Not sure if you got to read my post replying to a few of your questions a few posts back or not. There were quite a few questions I answered.

In terms of you making a "step by step" plan of action or something like that, would be incredibly helpful I think to not just me but many others.

I did read the detachment post you linked to. I think I have a fairly firm grasp of detachment now. Implementation will be a little challenging for awhile but I need to moving forward.

I have an idea of what my boundaries are but it will be applying the consequences to go along with them that will be challenging. Some are easy as you explained with the phone conversation example you used. For example, to me, her going out with her new "friends" I've never heard of before on a weekday while leaving me with our son and not coming home till around midnight I feel is extremely disrespectful towards me and I view as a boundary crossed for my W, separated or not. I'm just not sure what consequence I could use in this situation? Can I even use a consequence in this situation?

Thanks for your continued help with my situation Sandi, it is so very much appreciated.

[sandi2]

I believe I have read all of your posts, but if I have not addressed some of your concerns, you can point it out to me.

Something I want you to grasp about boundaries and consequences........and residing in a separation under the same roof. If you and W are separated, then she can go out wherever she wants and stay as late as she pleases. You are separated! The time to have set it straight was a long time ago. Once you are S, she's pretty much free to do as she pleases, as long as her interactions with you are not disrespectful and she is not harming the child. That is the disadvantage of separation. What's left as a consequence, other than D, b/c you are already S. So, if you aren't prepared to D, I suggest you not try to control it.

However, don't sit up waiting on her to get home! You can lock all the doors, turn out all the lights and go to bed. Don't keep her dinner warm, don't keep a light on, or make her bed all comfy, etc. Act as if it's just you and your child. Do NOT text or call her while she is out! This is very important. Don't check to "see if she's okay", like H's feel they should do. She has fired you as her H, so let her go, and let her get home the best way she can. Stop being available for her. You aren't her man servant or her daddy.

Don't wash her clothes, clean her vehicle and gas it up, clean up her bedroom/bathroom. Treat her like you are separated, instead of a M couple. Don't ask if she is going out, when she'll be home, and if she doesn't tell you she'll definitely be there for dinner......don't fix anything extra for her. Get the picture? Don't contact her at work to see if she's coming home.

Now, if she gets up one morning and has no clean clothes for work and pitches a raging fit at you for not doing her laundry......how will you handle it? B/c you should have a boundary in place to protect your feelings against verbal attacks. It might save a bad scene if you tell her ahead of time that since you are S, there should be some house rules, and you won't be responsible for her clothes, cleaning her bedroom/bathroom, servicing her car, etc. Don't be snarky about it, but I'll say more about house rules in a minute.

If she screams and yells or says disrespectful things (especially in front of your child), you can say: "I will not tolerate being verbally attacked (or however you want to state it)".
Then you walk away and leave her spewing like a mad dog, but don't stand there while she verbally beats you up.

If you are having dinner together at home and she starts causing a scene, get up from the table and leave the house. Leave her with the child and the mess. If in public, take the child with you and leave her to get home the best way she can. You are not going to be verbally attacked.

Does she do anything to disrespect you in front of others?

What else, besides staying out late do you feel is disrespectful?

I think every newcomer H wants to do something that will control his W, and prevent her staying out late, seeing OM, etc. He can set a boundary about it, but what will he do if they are already S? Make sense? I suppose you could tell her you feel disrespected and she'll have to find somewhere else to stay, but if she's paying the bills or her name is on the mortgage.......what then? Can you immediately pick up the bills? What if she takes the baby? IDK, I'm just asking. I don't blame you for not wanting to live under the same roof and knowing she's out doing lord-only-knows-what till all hours of the night. But that's why I am in not in favor of in-house S. As some men have described.......it is soul crushing.

You are limited, but you aren't completely powerless.

I also want you to approach her about splitting evenings to take care of the child. You should have just as many free evenings to be free to GAL as she has. Maybe you and W could set a few house rules while living there as a S couple. Ground rules or house rules are not the same thing as personal boundaries. However, if those were broken, I'd certainly suggest living physically separated.

Some examples of house rules would be.......not bringing new friends over to hang out; not have adults over to spend the night; not having any man to come to the house to pick her up; and things of that nature. Both of you should agree on the house rules...and she'll probably have a few to add, too. These are not be seen as controlling, but to be respectful of the other spouse, since you are sharing the same house.

I hope I have not confused you, bouncing around the way I have. I just know what else to say about boundaries, until you give me something else.

A couple of things I want to mention that nice guys seem to do, and should stop. One is to stop apologizing for every little thing, hoping to make things better with her. Don't apologize for being angry. She wants to end the M and split the family, so it is okay to be angry about it. Just don't lose your temper and do or say something you'll regret.

When she leave to go out, don't look pitiful and try to make her feel guilty. Neither tell her to have a good time. That seems passive-aggressive, IMHO, when it's tearing up your M.

Letting her go means you don't rescue her or clean up the mess she's caused in her life.

Just my suggestion, I think you need to get a job ASAP, and prepare to support yourself. I have not seen successful in-house seperations lead to reconciling. I have seen the H get fed up enough he became the WAH, and it yanked his W around to his terms.
He didn't do it to get his WW back. He seriously became the WAH. She saw he was serious, and she realized she didn't want to lose him and their M. So, last I heard, they were still together. That's what I call dumping her a$$. It has amazing results.

[Bewas]

I believe I have read all of your posts, but if I have not addressed some of your concerns, you can point it out to me.

Something I want you to grasp about boundaries and consequences........and residing in a separation under the same roof. If you and W are separated, then she can go out wherever she wants and stay as late as she pleases. You are separated! The time to have set it straight was a long time ago. Once you are S, she's pretty much free to do as she pleases, as long as her interactions with you are not disrespectful and she is not harming the child. That is the disadvantage of separation. What's left as a consequence, other than D, b/c you are already S. So, if you aren't prepared to D, I suggest you not try to control it.

However, don't sit up waiting on her to get home! You can lock all the doors, turn out all the lights and go to bed. Don't keep her dinner warm, don't keep a light on, or make her bed all comfy, etc. Act as if it's just you and your child. Do NOT text or call her while she is out! This is very important. Don't check to "see if she's okay", like H's feel they should do. She has fired you as her H, so let her go, and let her get home the best way she can. Stop being available for her. You aren't her man servant or her daddy.

Don't wash her clothes, clean her vehicle and gas it up, clean up her bedroom/bathroom. Treat her like you are separated, instead of a M couple. Don't ask if she is going out, when she'll be home, and if she doesn't tell you she'll definitely be there for dinner......don't fix anything extra for her. Get the picture? Don't contact her at work to see if she's coming home.

Now, if she gets up one morning and has no clean clothes for work and pitches a raging fit at you for not doing her laundry......how will you handle it? B/c you should have a boundary in place to protect your feelings against verbal attacks. It might save a bad scene if you tell her ahead of time that since you are S, there should be some house rules, and you won't be responsible for her clothes, cleaning her bedroom/bathroom, servicing her car, etc. Don't be snarky about it, but I'll say more about house rules in a minute.

If she screams and yells or says disrespectful things (especially in front of your child), you can say: "I will not tolerate being verbally attacked (or however you want to state it)".
Then you walk away and leave her spewing like a mad dog, but don't stand there while she verbally beats you up.

If you are having dinner together at home and she starts causing a scene, get up from the table and leave the house. Leave her with the child and the mess. If in public, take the child with you and leave her to get home the best way she can. You are not going to be verbally attacked.

Does she do anything to disrespect you in front of others?

What else, besides staying out late do you feel is disrespectful?

I think every newcomer H wants to do something that will control his W, and prevent her staying out late, seeing OM, etc. He can set a boundary about it, but what will he do if they are already S? Make sense? I suppose you could tell her you feel disrespected and she'll have to find somewhere else to stay, but if she's paying the bills or her name is on the mortgage.......what then? Can you immediately pick up the bills? What if she takes the baby? IDK, I'm just asking. I don't blame you for not wanting to live under the same roof and knowing she's out doing lord-only-knows-what till all hours of the night. But that's why I am in not in favor of in-house S. As some men have described.......it is soul crushing.

You are limited, but you aren't completely powerless.

I also want you to approach her about splitting evenings to take care of the child. You should have just as many free evenings to be free to GAL as she has. Maybe you and W could set a few house rules while living there as a S couple. Ground rules or house rules are not the same thing as personal boundaries. However, if those were broken, I'd certainly suggest living physically separated.

Some examples of house rules would be.......not bringing new friends over to hang out; not have adults over to spend the night; not having any man to come to the house to pick her up; and things of that nature. Both of you should agree on the house rules...and she'll probably have a few to add, too. These are not be seen as controlling, but to be respectful of the other spouse, since you are sharing the same house.

I hope I have not confused you, bouncing around the way I have. I just know what else to say about boundaries, until you give me something else.

A couple of things I want to mention that nice guys seem to do, and should stop. One is to stop apologizing for every little thing, hoping to make things better with her. Don't apologize for being angry. She wants to end the M and split the family, so it is okay to be angry about it. Just don't lose your temper and do or say something you'll regret.

When she leave to go out, don't look pitiful and try to make her feel guilty. Neither tell her to have a good time. That seems passive-aggressive, IMHO, when it's tearing up your M.

Letting her go means you don't rescue her or clean up the mess she's caused in her life.

Just my suggestion, I think you need to get a job ASAP, and prepare to support yourself. I have not seen successful in-house seperations lead to reconciling. I have seen the H get fed up enough he became the WAH, and it yanked his W around to his terms.
He didn't do it to get his WW back. He seriously became the WAH. She saw he was serious, and she realized she didn't want to lose him and their M. So, last I heard, they were still together. That's what I call dumping her a$$. It has amazing results.

Hi Sandi,

I think I'm starting to grasp the concept of boundaries better now. I'm realizing that I can't really enforce things like her going out now that we're S.

In terms of living together S, it is hell. I can definitely attest to that. She is just an aura of negativity and selfishness right now. I feel horrible around her. Even her family is just appaled at the new "her". They don't recognize her either.

I'm feeling more confident in my position of handling things on my own, I've been planning for her leaving as I don't want to be around the person she has become. I'm fairly sure she will leave if asked or demanded. I doubt she would take our son, she's not good with him to be honest and would be a drag on her. The plan would be split parenting according to her anyways.

Honestly, the more I think about it, her leaving is possibly the best way for her to wake up to what she is doing. She has no idea how hard it is to deal with our son full time or what I do for her on a daily basis or how much I actually handle with her business. She would never see me asking her to leave, I guarantee she thinks I'm hanging on. For her to deal with all of this on her own will be eye opening in my opinion.

Even in terms of the actual D if it comes to it will not go as she has planned. She has way more to lose than I do. This whole situation will not go as she has planned. She already had doses of it with things like getting a mortgage for herself, new vehicle, etc.

At this point I can't be afraid of actual separation. I think it's what she needs tbh. I really want to tell her I'm done with her [censored] and her disrespect and that I'm moving on.

Your thoughts?

[Bewas]

I believe I have read all of your posts, but if I have not addressed some of your concerns, you can point it out to me.

Something I want you to grasp about boundaries and consequences........and residing in a separation under the same roof. If you and W are separated, then she can go out wherever she wants and stay as late as she pleases. You are separated! The time to have set it straight was a long time ago. Once you are S, she's pretty much free to do as she pleases, as long as her interactions with you are not disrespectful and she is not harming the child. That is the disadvantage of separation. What's left as a consequence, other than D, b/c you are already S. So, if you aren't prepared to D, I suggest you not try to control it.

However, don't sit up waiting on her to get home! You can lock all the doors, turn out all the lights and go to bed. Don't keep her dinner warm, don't keep a light on, or make her bed all comfy, etc. Act as if it's just you and your child. Do NOT text or call her while she is out! This is very important. Don't check to "see if she's okay", like H's feel they should do. She has fired you as her H, so let her go, and let her get home the best way she can. Stop being available for her. You aren't her man servant or her daddy.

Don't wash her clothes, clean her vehicle and gas it up, clean up her bedroom/bathroom. Treat her like you are separated, instead of a M couple. Don't ask if she is going out, when she'll be home, and if she doesn't tell you she'll definitely be there for dinner......don't fix anything extra for her. Get the picture? Don't contact her at work to see if she's coming home.

Now, if she gets up one morning and has no clean clothes for work and pitches a raging fit at you for not doing her laundry......how will you handle it? B/c you should have a boundary in place to protect your feelings against verbal attacks. It might save a bad scene if you tell her ahead of time that since you are S, there should be some house rules, and you won't be responsible for her clothes, cleaning her bedroom/bathroom, servicing her car, etc. Don't be snarky about it, but I'll say more about house rules in a minute.

If she screams and yells or says disrespectful things (especially in front of your child), you can say: "I will not tolerate being verbally attacked (or however you want to state it)".
Then you walk away and leave her spewing like a mad dog, but don't stand there while she verbally beats you up.

If you are having dinner together at home and she starts causing a scene, get up from the table and leave the house. Leave her with the child and the mess. If in public, take the child with you and leave her to get home the best way she can. You are not going to be verbally attacked.

Does she do anything to disrespect you in front of others?

What else, besides staying out late do you feel is disrespectful?

I think every newcomer H wants to do something that will control his W, and prevent her staying out late, seeing OM, etc. He can set a boundary about it, but what will he do if they are already S? Make sense? I suppose you could tell her you feel disrespected and she'll have to find somewhere else to stay, but if she's paying the bills or her name is on the mortgage.......what then? Can you immediately pick up the bills? What if she takes the baby? IDK, I'm just asking. I don't blame you for not wanting to live under the same roof and knowing she's out doing lord-only-knows-what till all hours of the night. But that's why I am in not in favor of in-house S. As some men have described.......it is soul crushing.

You are limited, but you aren't completely powerless.

I also want you to approach her about splitting evenings to take care of the child. You should have just as many free evenings to be free to GAL as she has. Maybe you and W could set a few house rules while living there as a S couple. Ground rules or house rules are not the same thing as personal boundaries. However, if those were broken, I'd certainly suggest living physically separated.

Some examples of house rules would be.......not bringing new friends over to hang out; not have adults over to spend the night; not having any man to come to the house to pick her up; and things of that nature. Both of you should agree on the house rules...and she'll probably have a few to add, too. These are not be seen as controlling, but to be respectful of the other spouse, since you are sharing the same house.

I hope I have not confused you, bouncing around the way I have. I just know what else to say about boundaries, until you give me something else.

A couple of things I want to mention that nice guys seem to do, and should stop. One is to stop apologizing for every little thing, hoping to make things better with her. Don't apologize for being angry. She wants to end the M and split the family, so it is okay to be angry about it. Just don't lose your temper and do or say something you'll regret.

When she leave to go out, don't look pitiful and try to make her feel guilty. Neither tell her to have a good time. That seems passive-aggressive, IMHO, when it's tearing up your M.

Letting her go means you don't rescue her or clean up the mess she's caused in her life.

Just my suggestion, I think you need to get a job ASAP, and prepare to support yourself. I have not seen successful in-house seperations lead to reconciling. I have seen the H get fed up enough he became the WAH, and it yanked his W around to his terms.
He didn't do it to get his WW back. He seriously became the WAH. She saw he was serious, and she realized she didn't want to lose him and their M. So, last I heard, they were still together. That's what I call dumping her a$$. It has amazing results.

Hi Sandi,

I think I'm starting to grasp the concept of boundaries better now. I'm realizing that I can't really enforce things like her going out now that we're S.

In terms of living together S, it is hell. I can definitely attest to that. She is just an aura of negativity and selfishness right now. I feel horrible around her. Even her family is just appaled at the new "her". They don't recognize her either.

I'm feeling more confident in my position of handling things on my own, I've been planning for her leaving as I don't want to be around the person she has become. I'm fairly sure she will leave if asked or demanded. I doubt she would take our son, she's not good with him to be honest and would be a drag on her. The plan would be split parenting according to her anyways.

Honestly, the more I think about it, her leaving is possibly the best way for her to wake up to what she is doing. She has no idea how hard it is to deal with our son full time or what I do for her on a daily basis or how much I actually handle with her business. She would never see me asking her to leave, I guarantee she thinks I'm hanging on. For her to deal with all of this on her own will be eye opening in my opinion.

Even in terms of the actual D if it comes to it will not go as she has planned. She has way more to lose than I do. This whole situation will not go as she has planned. She already had doses of it with things like getting a mortgage for herself, new vehicle, etc.

At this point I can't be afraid of actual separation. I think it's what she needs tbh. I really want to tell her I'm done with her [censored] and her disrespect and that I'm moving on.

Your thoughts?

Just a little bump for my last post here. Need to know if this is my best course of action or not. I would like to think that DB detachment could work while living together S but I'm not so sure. If the only way for her to truly snap out of this fantasy she is in is for her to feel the reality of what she is actually doing, I think she needs to leave in my opinion. I just don't want to pull the trigger on this plan and figure out later I should have done something else or waited.

Thanks!

[Davide]

I would imagine that it would be WAY harder to detach while sharing a house. Distance has helped me somewhat and it is still the hardest thing ever.

That said, I wouldnt push her to leave unless you feel like you need to for your own sanity or because she is abusive in some way. I have seen my W only 3 times in 6 weeks since BD and wont see her again for at least 2 months. I have made great strides, and it would be cool for her to be able to see them.

Just my 2 cents.

[hoosjim]

I have seen the H get fed up enough he became the WAH, and it yanked his W around to his terms.
He didn't do it to get his WW back. He seriously became the WAH. She saw he was serious, and she realized she didn't want to lose him and their M. So, last I heard, they were still together. That's what I call dumping her a$$. It has amazing results.

^^^Yup. My sitch.

Hmmmmmm... To Sandi2 you listen, yes? Jedi mind tricks work not on a WW. Experience loss, they must.

[sandi2]

So I've been thinking, does a person having a predisposition to mental illness (ie: moderate to severe depression) make the mental shift to being wayward more easily? I ask because my W has always been really affected by depression from before I even knew her. She's also had severe postpartum depression to which I do not think she's ever recovered completely? I'm just wondering if a connection has ever been able to be made?

Is there a history of mental illness in her family? I apologize if you've mentioned this, but did her OB/GYN prescribe meds for her postpartum depression?

It seems the majority of cases (on the board) about a WW........did mention they were experiencing depression on some level. I mean, they are unhappy in the the MR, which affects pretty much everything else. So, JIMHO, it would certainly make sense. It sure doesn't help the situation any. There have been several newcomers to ask similar questions.

Waywardness is not a disease or something forced on a person, but if they are already dealing with a mental health issue.......then it could make the situation more complexed. When suffering with additional issues, it could slow the recovery, reconciliation or piecing time. In some cases, it may require a change in medication or therapy, before the woman would feel ready to emotionally invest in the MR.

Look, if you don't want to ask her to leave, don't do it. That is a decision only you can make. Don't just look for an action to cause a reaction in her. Do what is best for you and the child. Look at it from that point of view.

These types of situations usually get worse before they get better. It may take lots of reality to shake her fantasy, or it may take a long time. If you aren't sure about an affair, then you may want to wait until you know for certain. The other day you started a post by saying she was definitely having an A, then came back and said you had misunderstood what you saw.

A lot of information is thrown at the newcomer. Take time to digest it before you jump off into something you are not prepared to face. So, don't ask her to leave, at the moment, b/c I'm concerned you are acting out of your emotions.