Divorce and Acceptance part 3

[pinn]

Ugh Pax! Sending you hugs. I know how hard this has been for you. I hope it gets resolved soon. Hang in there!

[Brubeck]

Hi Pax,

Thinking of you. D@mn, these MLCers really follow the same pattern, and us LBSers seem to respond the same way as well.

The nastiness of the divorce does not equate to the level of unhappiness in the marriage. It just doesn’t. I think that is what I’m upset about right now. It didn’t have to be this way.... it really didn’t.

You're speaking for both of us. I've already forgiven my wife for divorcing me - because you can't force someone to stay someplace they don't want to be. I've already forgiven my wife for why she said she wanted a divorce - because I know I'm watching her on an MLC trainwreck. I can't forgive my wife for HOW she divorced me, that has been the hardest thing to deal with. I still get eruptions of anger at how destructive and nasty she tried to make it.

Based on the research I did on MLC (as well as depression), you are lucky to keep the good memories of your marriage. Should your H come out of MLC one day, he will struggle to remember a lot, including many years of his marriage. Depression and memory loss go hand in hand.

I just found out that he bought two investment properties after we separated. Of course he didn’t disclose this.

Please tell your lawyer this, if they don't already know. I don't know what the D laws are like in your corner of the world, but here in Illinois anything a spouse does with money during a marriage is considered a marital asset (money, property, valuables, etc.) I think only inheritances are excluded. Even if you're separated, you're still technically married, and any investments he made during this time might be considered a marital asset. Do not let him walk away with everything.

One he is soulless, and two he has money to get by.

Yes, indeed. The second half of that sentence drives the first. Expect his greed and desire towards money to continue well after the D is over. They will spend quite some time trying to buy happiness, because it's easier to do that for a moment of pleasure rather than acknowledge the giant black hole inside them.

Fight for what's fair, prepare yourself for some monstering on his end, and stay on the high road in your responses.

[Pax_luv]

Pin and Bru thank you so much for chiming in. I appreciate it.

I think I’m going through my own mlc right now.... ok maybe not full blown, but I definitely have the blues and I’m trying to make it better. As you all know, I deal with my ex’s shenanigans the best I can, and I’ve done a lot of work on myself over the last few years... but I think Ive hit a wall. I’m exhausted and sometimes the legal stuff just [censored] the life out of me. I’m not a high conflict person at all so this all has taken its toll. I’m so done.

There’s a lot of factors coming into play right now.... my birthday is coming up and it’s the age that I predicted I would be done having kids by. Well, i have no kids and no father prospects either. That is super depressing. I’m not sure it’s going to happen for me and it makes me so sad.

I’m at the top of my career in my job at my company. I won’t be able to advance further unless I change roles/ departments. I’m happy with my work, but I want to get new skills so I can be even better at it. I’ve been wanting to go back to school, but I can’t afford it. (Actually I’m not sure I’m even allowed to go back to school with the legal stuff that’s going on).

In any case, I could definitely use a little more income to feel more comfortable especially right now since I have thousands (plural) going out each month to pay for the accountant and lawyer. It stresses me out, but I’m scrappy and don’t spend too excessively. My once a week personal training just got eliminated and I’m sooooooo upset about it because it is a huge help to me personally and cheaper than therapy. But I have to do what I have to do. I must sacrifice.

Speaking of therapy.... I need to start going back and talking to someone...especially since I’ve been feeling a little low for a while now. I think it could help. Fortunately, I have it covered through my medical benefits so I will make an appt to just talk with someone. I don’t have anything concrete to say and I’m sure it’s all part of the grieving process, but I guess I’m looking for a little guidance to help me move forward since I’ve stalled out.

Back in 2016 when I was about 9 months into this mess a physician friend of mine recommended a self help conference for me to attend out of state. This 4 day workshop was sooooo beneficial, I’ve been thinking of trying to find a way to go back for the second part of the workshop that goes much deeper. Maybe it will be a birthday present to myself.

Going back to finances, I’ve been looking into side hustles so I can make just a little bit more money. I would love to try and find a way to reinvest it into some classes for myself as well.

And the draw to change up my personal appearance is also strong. I’m just feeling very unsettled with my self I guess. I’ve had feelings of depression for about 3 months now. At first I thought it was because I finished my goal of competing in a bikini body building contest. I just thought I had the post-show blues and my hormones were probably out of whack from the strict low fat diet. But a few weeks passed and it never really got better, however, i did find that I was eating my feelings away. A few weeks after that, I went to wedding with my best friend out of the country and we parlayed that into a mini vacation. I had the best time, but when I got back those feelings of sadness came creeping up again!! Arg.

Also, It’s been getting harder to get out of bed in the morning (I also blame that on the weather changing), and I even wore the same outfit to work 2 days in a row! That is terrible and I would never normally do it, but it’s all I could do to get going.

So yeah.... I guess the silver lining is, Im aware of these feelings of sadness. Pre and post bd I wasn’t aware of these feelings though I was definitely depressed in life.

So, there ya have it. Maybe more depression than a full blown MLc, but I will say, I wouldn’t mind a fling with some hot young guy right now! I get why the mlcers do it!

Onwards.

Hope you all have a nice week.

[OneArt]

Ok, that's all the bad stuff. Now tell us all the good stuff. Even if you have dig pretty deep. You know its there.

[Pax_luv]

Hi OneArt,
You are right. The good stuff is there. I keep losing sight of it. I’ll get to good stuff momentarily...
This weekend, I caught myself telling my mom that I felt like my head was in the clouds... it was so foggy. I didn’t make the connection until the next day or two. Weird!!

Anyway, the fact that I’ve acknowledged that I haven’t been feeling so great has actually helped. I’ve been stir crazy and yet have zero energy to do anything about it, I haven’t been sleeping, I cry at the drop of a hat. I cried dropping off my dog with my ex. It’s not good. But I know I can make choices that will give me momentum in a different direction. I wouldn’t have been this self aware if I haven’t gone through what I have the last few years. That’s a blessing in itself.

So the good stuff....
I continue to be amazed how I am supported both personally and professionally. I’m not good at asking for help, so I am shocked that when I absolutely must lean on others, they are there for me. (My ex never was).

That always fills me with gratitude. I always feel a responsibility to help others in their time of need, and yet refuse to ask for help on my own. I think I’ve learned that people WANT to be there.

My friend recently gave me the best motivational speech. She knows that I’ve had such a hard time with the ex nonsense and she knows that I’m just done. (Background- I am in this financial purgatory that just keeps getting worse and worse. Im responsible.... I don’t deal with issues like this. I always have my act together. So, to have to deal with this is not OK by me. It’s a direct violation of my values and that’s what makes it harder. )

Anyway, she said- remember when the cubs had that rain delay at game 7 of the World Series? That’s where you are at right now. I know it [censored] right now, but you can come back and win this (meaning life)... this is just your rain delay.

It was so sweet of her, because I just want to be done with this financial torture. She knows how hard I’ve worked on myself, and all the sacrifices and tears up to this point, I can keep going and see this through the end. I have it in me. I’m just feeling very defeated. My ex seems so untouchable.

So, at the end of the day, Im trying to get that wheels back on the bus. Time to get back to journaling, and meditation, and time for myself to just breathe.

[OneArt]

Those are an excellent start and I'm glad that you can see that.

I hope Andrew comes along because he always talks about the Art of War, which I read so long ago I've forgotten it. But I think there is something there (or somewhere else) about not engaging in the fights you don't have to. Sometimes you just have to take the blow, sometimes you have to deflect it, sometimes you have to find another way, and sometimes, usually when protecting yourself and the things you value, you have to fight.

Is the situation with the ex one where you can just accept it and move on?

Is it one where you can do nothing and let him burn himself out with his hatred and vitriol?

With the very narcissistic ones you can't fight the fight. They love the fight. You also can't lay there. They love doormats. You have to outwit them or outlast them. Most of them are pretty shallow.

Do you need something specific from the case? Can you distract him away from what that is and make him think it is something else you really want and must have?

Are there deadlines pushing the action, or can you do nothing and wait and let him spin and burn himself out? If you can, that's what I would do (shall I say am doing--I've told my lawyer I won't spend one dollar unless I am absolutely forced to spend it. His case. He needs to move it forward. It's cheaper to just sit and wait.).

If you fight him blow for blow, you will lose. He will fight to the death, he will fight bloody, and he will cheat to win. If you can, do nothing. Just wait. There will come a time when he wants it to be done. When he wants it to be over. And then it will be over.

Don't show him stress. Don't show him fatigue. Can someone else exchange the dog so he doesn't get to see you cry. He doesn't deserve to see your emotion.

[AndrewP]

I hope Andrew comes along because he always talks about the Art of War, which I read so long ago I've forgotten it. But I think there is something there (or somewhere else) about not engaging in the fights you don't have to. Sometimes you just have to take the blow, sometimes you have to deflect it, sometimes you have to find another way, and sometimes, usually when protecting yourself and the things you value, you have to fight.

LOL - You called? My copy is the Lionel Giles translation. Also available as an audio book on Librivox which I'll be listening to this weekend. Only 13 chapters if you bypass the analysis.

A few things from Sun Tzu. Intelligence is key. The more you know about your enemy, his strengths and weaknesses the better you will do.

Always fight from a defensible position of strength. If you are challenged on ground that is not defensible, leave it. When you can, steal your enemy's supplies. That has a double benefit to you.

Never be in the path of a retreating army. They will destroy all in their path.

I did reasonably well in my divorce settlement because I knew or at least could strongly posit certain facts:
- She did not want to have her dirty laundry aired in court
- She wanted to preserve me as a Plan B despite the divorce
- She didn't want to "look bad" to our kids
- She expected to get her happily ever after with OM

I also did work on subtly hurting the relationship between her and her lawyer. I pointed out that her lawyer at that time was probably lawyer #4. They don't like clients who switch around. I also was able to catch her in a couple of large lies that she made to her lawyer. Lawyers "really" don't like clients who lie to them. This was a tricky one. I couldn't be subtle, but I also couldn't be too nasty otherwise I would have just been bitter and ignored. I was told later by my lawyer that the opposing lawyer really wasn't trying very hard.

I gave in easily on things that didn't matter to me. She roamed through the house "shopping" several times. I preserved her family heirlooms including plants until she could come for them. Those "defeats" cost me nothing I wasn't willing to lose. They also made me look very reasonable. Everyone was astounded by how "nice" I was. That made it easier to be firm on things that mattered - such as a clean break and getting her off my health insurance etc.

One thing that I also told myself was that there was nothing that she could do to me that could be worse than what she had already done to me.

I also focused on keeping the settlement as simple as possible. So we agreed that the value of property she took was roughly equivalent to what she left behind. I kept my pension (see Plan B comment). I am paying a fixed amount of support for a fixed amount of years where both parties will not go back to re-negotiate. If she ever did get in with OM (seeming more unlikely by the day) she would have both his and my money.

Since we both knew exactly what the financial position was, I laid it all out, made three offers and told her "That's all the water that's in the well" which she knew to be true.

Take from this what you will. There was a very good article on another site which instead of thinking about what was "fair" took the point of view of "what will you be willing to pay to have the pain stop". I can't link it but that perspective was very helpful to me.

You can fight and fight and pick your hill to die on. Or you can surrender the hill and live in the peaceful valley. I chose peace over victory.

You are also coming at this Pax from a different perspective than I did as I "lost" the most financially as the higher income earner. But I won a peace and a future.

[DnJ]

Well said AndrewP.

Pax_luv - my separation was over quickly. The outcomes was and is bizarre. I have no first hand knowledge in dealing with a spouse who is dragging things out and so narcissistic. From what you have said, and others have posted, it looks very trying and draining.

I am glad you recognize the depression you are struggling through. Letting others know that you would like support is not a sign of weakness. You are right, people want to help - do your part and let them know how they could help. Usually just listening is a great start. I know it seems strange but something like - I am having some troubles and I would really like to just tell you about them. It clearly shows you reaching out and what you need, and people love to help and feel useful.

Anyhow, I’ve been quietly following along and thought I’d pop in and say hello.

[OneArt]

Thank you Andrew, I knew I could count on you (and I'm glad you are finally showing how devious you are). Pax, I know you can't tell us the details but between your Art of War master and someone who knows a little about cluster B's and the law, maybe we could help you come up with a list like Andrew's.

[Pax_luv]

You guys...thank you so much for chiming in. I appreciate it.

I can’t really quote on my phone, but OneArt, you mentioned the narcissist and how they love the fight. Yes, that fits my ex to a t. He looooooooves the fight and loves the opportunity to think he has outwitted his opponents. That was always something that I thought was odd with his personality as I am the complete opposite. While I am empathetic, I quickly became a doormat with him. This was brought up in our counseling by our t, but he continued to blame me.
So, at the end of the day, like you mention OneArt, this is just going to have to be a situation where he burns himself out.

In terms of fighting, I’m still not on the offense... I’m still playing defense trying to protect myself from his bullying and lies.

Thanks for filling me in on the art of war, Andrew. Speaking of playing defense..... I am pretty familiar with who I’m dealing with so at least I have that on my side. I know some of the plays in His playbook. Had I not known what he was capable of, I may have made some pretty monumental mistakes early on... but because I knew he was manipulating me, I was able to stand up for myself, which caused a whole lot of fury on his end.

Thanks for the kind words DNJ! I appreciate them. The blessing for all of us is our ability to see things differently either in our current state or our future state. I appreciate the awakening and awareness that has developed as a result of the experience.


I can’t share too many details of the situation, but I’m in a community property state. He’s trying to ensure I walk away with zero, zilch, nada and I pay him spousal support. If you even knew the crap he has pulled, you would be floored. Our accountant uncovered some things I didn’t even know.

I hope I don’t offend anyone with this gender stereotype (I don’t mean to be offensive) but this guy is not a man. He’s a sorry excuse for a man. What kind of man makes the decision to divorce his wife, wipe out their bank accounts, lie, lie, lie, buy cars and houses (plural) after the separation and claim that the wife (who is literally barely living paycheck to paycheck) makes more than him and should owe him spousal support.... when he makes 4 times more than her. That’s not a man at all. Again... apologies for referencing that kind of stereotype... but he’s a dirtbag weasel. There’s no honor or duty in his veins.

So, a mini update.... recent developments have me suspecting that ex’s lawyer may soon be getting the boot. I feel bad, he seems like a nice enough guy. He’s probably not used to dealing with this caliber of human.

In other news, I’ve been working really hard on getting out of my funk and it’s helping. I’m still a bit stir crazy and want to switch things up (maybe throw caution to the wind a lil), but I’m not walking around with sheer sadness. I’ve been exercising, forcing myself to eat better, I’m reading, and just trying to take care of myself. It’s working!

That’s all I got for now. I, once again, am picking myself up by the boot straps and taking steps forward. I can do this.

Much love to you all.