Is my W suffering from a MLC

[shepard]

Hello Andrew, thank you for reading my story and sharing your advice and experience with me. When i first came to these forums, i could not believe some of the stuff i read. As i compared symptoms and others stories to my own, i hoped and prayed that this wasn't truly the case for my W and our R. After reading at how terrible MLC is, i had begun to fear this could be the truth. The more irrational and emotional my W has become, its become harder and harder to not face the truth.

I recognize the road ahead will be difficult and it terrifies me! I am not prepared to face this, but i am trying. All i can do now is pray to the Lord to guide me straight and true, and to depend on the advice of the good people i have met here. Each day is a battle. Never in my life would i have believed this would happen. My W truly loved me unconditionally for as long as i can remember. Its hard to realize that isn't the case right now. So heartbreaking! Thanks again Andrew,, it is much appreciated.

[shepard]

Your MLCer may mask depression with what seems like indifference--or you may interpret depression as indifference. Being depressed feels like you are without a soul, a foundation, a way out and are stuck in the Wasteland. It feels permanent and thus hopeless. In Replay you may recognize the soul-void when you notice their eyes seem dead and they seem to act without a conscience. In Liminality depression becomes more overt and their entire demeanor is like the walking dead. They may seem restless because they want to stop moving and are immobile, unable or unwilling to drag themselves out of bed. Replayers may avoid eye contact, but as they become more proficient at deception, eye contact may resume. In Liminality they avoid eye contact not because they are lying and trying to avoid detection but because they want to disappear; they are trying to melt into the background. Depression may manifest as indifference or someone may interpret it as such. In a state of depression Self love lies buried beneath rubble and until it surfaces the MLCer is incapable of showing love for anything or anyone. There is no caring substance, understanding this can help you to avoid interpreting the lack of caring making it personal. It is not personal; he is dead inside.

[shepard]

I read the above article from another website yesterday. Considering since i previously commented on seeing this in my wife's eyes, and read comments from sjohn6 about seeing the same thing in his W's eyes, i felt the urge to share this with everyone. It truly shows how troubled they are right now.

Not much has changed in my sitch. Wife discusses divorce more and more now, which hurts everytime. The kids and i move out in less then three weeks, leaving her to her own devices. She asked me to let her know if i start dating anyone, and said i could not have sex with anyone else!!! She wants to divorce me and break up her family, and this is what she is worried about?? I am truly amazed at our conversations as of late.

The feelings of anxiety since BD are lessening more and more. I still love my wife deeply, but am eager to move on for now with the kids. The feelings are hard to explain, i am eager, but still frightened to move on without her. I guess that will get better once we are truly separated.

[MarvinF]

There are no magic formulas, there are no cures, there is not much you can do to change what is happening. Accept that this bomb started ticking many years ago, somewhere in the child or teen years of your wife. You happen to be there when it went off. Everything says detach, walk away (for now), save and heal yourself. Because you have to. For you and for your kids.

My experience with my wife (no kids) has been very similar, I am about 1.5 years ahead of you. But I will say this (from my perspective): there are things that may push her deeper and faster into this. I do not believe there is anything we as the LBS can do to prevent or help, in fact we HAVE to stay out of it for many reasons. They have to do this alone. But I do believe we can make the processes longer or deeper. This DOES NOT mean we are responsible or caused it. More that at a critical moment we may push things in the wrong way. Please realize this is only my belief and everything I have seen, read and experienced.

My advice to you right now is REMOVE yourself. Be the source of NO PRESSURE, NO STRESS, focus on yourself, show your wife no pain, no sadness. In fact just listen to whatever she says, do not agree or disagree, do not argue, try to convince her. Most importantly ask NO questions, specially about your relationship or the future. She has absolutely no ability or space for any of it and all of that is pressure when she already is exploding inside.

What I found is that the more I moved on and seemed happy (genuinely mostly, not faking it) and the more I pulled back and gave her all the space in the world the more it kept my wife from running away faster. Initially she disappeared (so will yours based on script), but I am very sure she will touch and go as she goes deeper and deeper into replay. It is almost like a child wanting to make sure the parent they hate is still nearby. My wife has said now that she is gaining some clarity that she always felt safe knowing I was somewhere in the distant. I believe by just moving on and not pressuring her I reduced her ability to push off our relationship, and it made it harder for her to put all her pain and unhappiness on our relationship. I was simply not there as she found herself not becoming happy. And I think one of the first steps in her started to try to snap out of it came when she realized I genuinely have moved away from her.

I am not saying this is what will happen with your wife, I do not think anyone can predict it. But I will say your best chance at helping her (and more importantly keeping yourself from being shredded by her actions emotionally) is detach, remove yourself emotionally and if possible physically. Do not engage her, but be kind, gentle and try to remind yourself no matter what she says or does she is in an incredible amount of pain and confusion.

[shepard]

Marvin, you are incredible! Some of the advice you have given since your first post is as though you know my situation exactly. I am guilty, about as guilty as can be. Going against everything i have read, all the advice given me, knowing better, i continue to pepper my W with the same questions over and over. I have literally driven her insane with guilt and questions i feel! I drive home from work telling myself the whole way, no more questions, and guess what i do? I guess somewhere deep down i continued to hope this MLC wasn't the case, that i could convince her somehow! That she would finally understand. Today i have realized i can't. She is absolutely blind to reason! The answers she gives have shredded me emotionally! I am literally a torn up paper puppet of my former self.

I have finally come to the realization that i am completely alone! My wife is gone right now and it hurts. I know now there is nothing i can say or do that will change her mind. I believe i have finally accepted it is time to take that first step. I will not ask a single question of her for the last three weeks i live with her. i wish i could have come to this realization earlier. To do exactly what everyone was saying, everything i have read. I am ready to emotionally detach, knowing deep inside my soul i love her more dearly than anything else in this world could. I pray to the good Lord that i have not destroyed the option for her to return home some day. Whenever that may be, i hope i can still be there waiting for her!

Before she fell asleep, i held her in my arms in our bed. I spoke softly to her face saying, "I am sorry for everything i have done recently to add to your pressure and pain. I want you to know that i love you with every fiber of my being! I believe deep down in your heart, you still love me, its just buried away deep down within you". She began crying and sobbing, which caused me to cry as well. As my tears dripped on her face, i told her that "I want you to know that i will focus on me and our children, to become the best father i can be. And that i swore to you and God, for better and for worse, that i will always love you. That you need to go on this journey and find yourself. I will go to sleep every night praying for you and will wake every morning thinking of you, as i always have! I will be waiting for you, patiently for you to come home to me and our children"

"I hope one day, when you rediscover yourself, you will find me again. That we can start over again together. We will be two whole new people then, whenever that is. You will have changed and i will have changed. But my love for you will not, and we can start all over again one day. So i promise you, i will be waiting for you, please come home to me one day"! She replied with, "ok, thank you". We laid together crying for a few more minutes before i left the room.

Life can be seriously brutal. I did not have the greatest childhood. I have seen some pretty sad and disturbing things through the years. From my biological father beating my mother on Christmas day, to coming home from high school to find my step dad murdered in our own home! I thought i could handle anything life through at me over the years. But this is by far the hardest thing i have ever faced! The old saying that God would never give you more than you could handle is something i have uttered to myself a lot of the years. I believe everything happens for a reason! I pray something great and beautiful comes from all of this. Its hard to believe that right now, knowing how it will effect my children. But i will continue to have faith, and believe in my marriage. I know my wife truly loves me, i just hope i am still around when she realizes it!

Thank you everyone! And thank you Marvin for telling me exactly what i needed to hear. Like i said, it was as if you knew i was withholding information about what was truly happening. You told me exactly what i needed to hear. I thank you for that. Have a good night everyone!

[MarvinF]

It is very hard to accept and parse this, believe me I understand. The person you shared your life with, completely trusted with, relied on, disappears in what to us looks like in an instant. But realize they have been disappearing for longer, we just did not notice. I reconstructed the timeline to two years before bomb drop when she started fracturing. In conversations with her subsequently she has confirmed as much. So to you it is new and a shock, she is already detached and gone.

Another really important thing to keep in mind. I suggest DO NOT even keep telling her you love her, you will be there for her, you will wait. All of these things things which would be supportive in a normal situation is pressure to her. It really is insane clown logic at work here. Say nothing, only listen, validate without agreeing or arguing. Do not share anything about your life or what you are thinking, just start moving on and live you own life. Words mean nothing but actions are everything. We all slip from time to time, we all messed up at the start, but now its time to get going.

Also always be happy, never say the smallest sarcastic or jabbing comment, it really seems they hear every little thing and will focus on and blow it out to be major (they get hurt easily). Really no contact may be a great option for a bit all around, shows her you are moving on and leaving her alone and will let you not be constantly damaged. Even over a year out small things my wife will do (which is in no way surprising) can get past my defenses and hurt. And this is when she is actively trying to reconnect!

[Gerda]

Amazing post, Rylance! I think it's good that you said all those things. Now you need never wonder if you weren't clear, and you have said exactly what was on your heart. As a woman, I can also say that that is every woman's dream to hear those words. I wrote my H a letter kind of like that after BD, and it gave me peace. If you are trying to please God first, I think your letter is great.

And I think her crying shows that she is hearing you from deep inside.

Maybe it will be easier to think of this as letting go and letting God. You've said your piece and left the ball in her court so you can leave her to God to work on and live your own life for your kids as best as you can. You can leave the light on so she can see it when she looks back through the dark at HOME. But it's true that once you've made that stuff clear, saying it more will only create a feeling that you are compelling something and add to her feelings of being caged. She is not being caged by you but she thinks she is, so you have to let her go so that she can realize that the cage has nothing to do with you but is a cage around her own soul.

You are doing great! Any woman would love to hear those words, so you can rest assured that if that didn't win her back, nothing can win her back until she realizes on her own what she left behind. I had cancer during my stand, a year after BD, and that didn't wake my H up; thinking of that can sometimes make me mad or bitter but if I am thinking rightly, it helps me understand that there is absolutely nothing I can do but live my own life as best I can and either way or not wait for him to come back. (I am waiting but very tired!)

[shepard]

Thank you Marvin and Gerda for your replies, advice and support, they are very much appreciated.

Marvin, i do realize this all started some time ago. The signs are so visible now, i just didn't know then. In some of our conversations, my W has told me these feelings all began 4 1/2 years ago, after the birth of our D. I don't know if she is rewriting history or what? I never felt she had lost feelings for me whatsoever over this time period. The title of my post was a question, "Is my W suffering from a MLC"?

I have matched up so much information that relates to my experience. But, she has told me she just started "falling out of love with me" over time, that her heart was like a roller coaster, her love was up and down. For me, i could not just "fall out of love" with someone that i have devoted my life to. Can the birth of a child jump start a MLC? She had a difficult pregnancy with our D. We even had the Down Syndrome scare while she was pregnant. My wifes body became seriously outta whack during this pregnancy. She also began suffering panic attacks trying to sleep at night near the end of the pregnancy. She recently went to her OBGYN who said her body is chemically unbalanced and put her on birth control to help restore the balance.

I believe she may have suffered from postpartum depression after the birth. I read awhile back that when postpartum goes undiagnosed, it can return stronger and worse. My heart wants to believe she is confused and lost due to an MLC, cause it hurts more to think she just "fell out of love" for no reason and began tearing our family apart. Is it possible for someone who has devoted 22 years of their life to just fall out of love? She always truly loved me over the years, i know this is true. She cared for me and our children so much. The woman she is now is so distorted! She even missed another of our Sons baseball games last night, an all stat tournament game. She admitted that our daughter was too much for her to handle the last couple years as a stay at home mother.

I am wondering if rewriting of history is at play here or not? Funny how all of this comes out after the discovery of her EA.

Gerda, thank you for what you said. I am trying to put her into Gods hands. My wife continues to think of herself as a "piece of s__t, with a black heart and soul" Not sure how such a beautiful woman became so harsh. Hopefully she will one day feel better about herself, for her and her kids sake.

Thanks again everyone. Have a good weekend.

[MarvinF]

It is possible for people to fall out of love, but that process takes time, makes sense, and there is no bomb drop. So only you can tell, is that what happened or was there really the bomb drop process? Does she show anger and resentment and rewrites past? Yes if it is MLC they rewrite the past and that is part of the incredibly confusing and disorienting process. It had me off balance for a bit because I trusted my wife so much I did not thing she could be distorting reality. But once I regained my balance I could see she had rewritten a low. And it did start with less, and it got both more dramatic (from I need space, to I do not love you, to I never loved you as it went on) and it extends further and further in the past (at its worst she said I had ALWAYS trapped her and she was NEVER happy, which I know is not true). As she is getting a little more clear whenever I point out what she has said she truly does not remember and is confused by it. So you do have to be careful and this is one of many reasons to go no contact. Over the past year I always gained clarity whenever I was not interacting with her. Being around her caused her confusion to confuse me and I was questioning things I know to be true (like I would have noticed over 22 years if she NEVER loved me, I am not a moron).

So step away, go no contact, then look back and see if you really believe she does not love you. She does NOT love you RIGHT NOW, right now she probably HATES YOU. My wife even right now will launch into saying things like you are repugnant and I find you repulsive. Ten minutes later she will say she is going miss me terribly because I am leaving. Their beliefs are VERY REAL the moment they feel it but not stable and not necessarily the real truth. There is really something coming up from a past period of time, it is almost like another personality from an earlier time overlays and hijacks the person. One thing I read said it very well, it said what would a teenage version of your wife think of you if she found herself married and with kids with a guy your age?

[shepard]

Thank you Marvin for replying again. I enjoy reading your advice and experience. Yes, there was definitely a bomb drop! I am no moron either, January was one of the best months we've had and was an exciting time for us. We had goals established and within reach. Things were looking so good for us. By the time April hit, she dropped the bomb on me with the "ILYBNILWY" speech. A few days later i discovered the EA. If i had knew that our marriage was going south, i wouldn't have lost nearly 70 lbs in less than two months with a trip to Urgent care for a 141/92 blood pressure! Talks quickly went from "i need space", to "i need a separation" to the divorce talks!

Shortly after the EA was discovered, i looked at potential Apts for me to move in to. She told me at the time that "this was not what I (she) wanted". Shortly after, she began saying she needed to find her own Apt and move out. I was stunned at how easily she came to the decision to abandon me and our kids. Her finances are low so she wasn't really able to move out as she wanted. She even asked me to help her financially to find her own Apt, which i declined. I thought the idea of the kids seeing her move out was heartbreaking. I decided it was better for the kids and I to leave and she could stay with her parents, which she agreed to. I read an article about "planting ideas" in their heads. In anger, i was the first one to bring up divorce. She was stunned when i first mentioned it. Now she believes its what she wants.

She does keep saying that she "feels like a prisoner" and says "I was too controlling". I never once in our 22 years told her what she could or couldn't do. I swore long ago to not follow the same roads my father and step fathers lead. So, i do believe that she has been rewriting our history.

She missed another of our Sons baseball games Friday night. That hurt cause this was the start of the All Star tournament. She used the excuse that she needed to stay home with our daughter, even though mother in law asked to watch her for us. She went to bed at 7:30 and slept till 8 Saturday morning. She woke up in a very bitter and angry mood. Irritable at me and the kids. She cleaned house for a bit, before laying back down. She refused to do anything with us ALL day. Literally laid in bed all day, then slept through the night.

Second game of Sons tournament was today, which she thankfully attended. She was in a far better mood today, calling me "Hun" several times. I have finally been able to avoid asking her questions. When we came home, she laid in bed next to me saying, she didn't want me to get upset "IF" she asked for a divorce. I said i understand how she feels, but don't believe itz the right choice at the moment.

I move out in two weeks with the kids, so she will get her space and separation soon, as wanted. I am trying my best to avoid questions and keep to myself, to only interact when she initiates it. I am trying my best to follow yours and everyone else's advice. I thank you all for your time and input. Have a great week everyone.