It's been an interesting day. I got a call from my real estate agent that saying the buyers pulled out of the original house I lost the bid on. They will consider an offer I put in before reopening it again. They will give it to me for asking. My dad and stepmother were in town for D10's dance recital and I got to take them to see it. They really love it and want to help me get it. So, we will go in full offer if we have to, but we are going to try to go 5k under asking. I can't believe it. This might actually happen. I will find out tomorrow. Bad news is my dad had a talk with me and said we will probably have to cancel the Niagara trip. He said we can maybe try next year. I guess I have to do what I have to do. This is really exciting, and also really scary.
Funny, also, at the dance recital, I took a picture of exH, OWW and D10. Never ever did I thought I would be taking picture of them as a family. It's not easy, I'll be honest. But it is what it is.
I do hope the tides are turning for me. I am ingrained to not expect a great outcome. Especially with men and living situations. I did worry about bumble guy today. He isn't all the communicative by text and my gut got a funny feeling. But he was at the pool all day and now he is hanging out with the guys. He sent me a pic of him doing a shot off of an ice luge..... and I said "Fun Saturday night!" He said "Not all that fun, you aren't here". So I feel a little better. I hate this part. Insecurity does get me. I did run through my head of any indication that he might not be interested. Oh, he showed some serious interest. I need to reel it in.
It's just so hard to not be hopeful good things are happening. I need to chill out and just see what happens.
Last edited by job; 06/10/1812:35 AM. Reason: added link to previous thread
It's been an interesting day. I got a call from my real estate agent that saying the buyers pulled out of the original house I lost the bid on. They will consider an offer I put in before reopening it again. They will give it to me for asking. My dad and stepmother were in town for D10's dance recital and I got to take them to see it. They really love it and want to help me get it. So, we will go in full offer if we have to, but we are going to try to go 5k under asking. I can't believe it. This might actually happen. I will find out tomorrow. Bad news is my dad had a talk with me and said we will probably have to cancel the Niagara trip. He said we can maybe try next year. I guess I have to do what I have to do. This is really exciting, and also really scary.
Funny, also, at the dance recital, I took a picture of exH, OWW and D10. Never ever did I thought I would be taking picture of them as a family. It's not easy, I'll be honest. But it is what it is.
I do hope the tides are turning for me. I am ingrained to not expect a great outcome. Especially with men and living situations. I did worry about bumble guy today. He isn't all the communicative by text and my gut got a funny feeling. But he was at the pool all day and now he is hanging out with the guys. He sent me a pic of him doing a shot off of an ice luge..... and I said "Fun Saturday night!" He said "Not all that fun, you aren't here". So I feel a little better. I hate this part. Insecurity does get me. I did run through my head of any indication that he might not be interested. Oh, he showed some serious interest. I need to reel it in.
It's just so hard to not be hopeful good things are happening. I need to chill out and just see what happens.
Firstly, thrilled for you about the house. Yeah! Go Ginger.
Lean back, be the quality lady you are and get on with your awesome life. You are enough.
It's dating, the flirting stage.
Flirt back.....
"Awwwwwww BG (bumble guy), one day you can demonstrate those moves to me!"
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I am pretty much an emotional wreck right now. Partially due to PMS, and partially due to all the huge changes. I have been having lots of anxiety lately, which isn't common for me. Some is job related (the people here are kind of nuts and keep Fing with me), of course, the house situation, I am so nervous. The guy thing, well, our first date could not have gone better, but boy is he acting strange. I don't know what to trust anymore.
I let out this guttural cry last night. I mean, everything just inside of me came bursting out. I felt an actually grip of fear and pain on my heart. I can't explain it. All this stuff is quite frightening I am not in this with anyone but myself and I am scared. Today I will know more about the house. I actually sold my dining set last night. Ex H and I bought this beautiful dining set when we got married. Not everyone's taste, but we loved it. I finally got to use it again with this house because there is room. There won't be any room in the next place so it was time to go. The china cabinet and the table and chairs sold for $500. FB marketplace is great, I had inquires within minutes, and a family who lives 2 mi. away, came to see it, said it was beautiful and they will be sending it back to Europe with family. he is picking it up on wed. I will probably sell my twin bed in the extra bedroom and maybe my extra sofa. More money for new furniture I'll need for storage.
I am need to just relax someone, but the anxiety and fear are kind of bad. I can feel my heart pounding in my chest. The last time I felt this way was with my stressful homecare/hospice job. Atleast I lost a whole bunch of weight from the stress back then.
We will see how things unfold today. It's going to be a very pivotal week.
I've found that when life becomes overwhelming, having a backup plan really helps. I keep an old shopping cart in my garage that's stocked with bottled water, a blanket, a raincoat and a handwritten cardboard sign that says, "Need money for food and dresses. God bless."
Moving, buying a home...these are are huge stressors and life changes. Feeling anxiety is normal ginger.
Im glad that a home is now a real possibility for you. Think in terms of real possibilities. Worst case scenarios and realize, no matter what happens you will get through it. Might not be ideal, but you will survive.
Although, i think everything will work out ok. And im excited for you. You will have equity!!! And as a aingle mom living in one of the most expensive areas of the country. That is awesome.
As for that guy, glad the date went well. But don't put all your eggs in one basket. Take it slow. Keep it light. As you get to know him i would try to find out
1. What hes looking for at this point in his life? Long term serious relationship or laid back party with friends causual dating lifestyle? Some guys at this stage dont really want a blending of lives. They dont mind monogamy but dont want committment either. I would find out, but maybe not the first few dates. Make sure you guys wamt the same things before investing.
2. Im a firm believer in waiting on the physical until you know what they are about. It keeps you less invested. It keeps emotions out of it while you are getting a feeling about what the person is like.
Kind of like a job interview. Find out what it entails before you start getting friendly with coworkers and patients.
Also, just like with jobs when you have other options..when you dont need that one you come across as more valuable. It kind of shines through. People sense it.
2. How does he share custody? This tells a lot i think.
Hello my friend. So lots going on in your life. I totally understand the anxiety. Purchasing a home is stressful..doing it on your own..doubly.
Here's what I know about you. You always land on your feet. You may worry and freak out some, but, when the time comes..you figure it out.
So trust yourself. You can handle anything. Just look at what you have already survived in your life. I am thinking that in the grand scheme of stuff you have overcome that this house is not nearly as monumental as the other things you have dealt with.
If this happens, you can do it, G. You will do it. I am not in any way trying to trivialize the scope of this. I just know you. You are Brooklyn stock.
You got this, sweetie.
As far as the guy, trust your gut. I am sure it was a great first date. If he is acting funny...it could be any number of things. Nothing you can really do about them, though.
You learned the ropes. Leave him to figure it out or not. You just keep going.
Still rooting for you over here..and saying a prayer.
Glad to hear the house is circling back around G, but don't underestimate the opportunity them coming back to you gives you, you don't need to just jump to asking price... Don't be afraid to lose it, doing so can lead to over paying, don't go higher than your comfortable with. They have had a sale fall through, a solid offer from you will look enticing to them, they want to sell as badly as you want to buy.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Ahhh, the guttural cry. Oh yes mine is more howling, distress.
Get it out, it's grief at it's most poignant. It's the scream in real life. I can't remember which film but one of the main characters used to go to the train line and scream.
It will pass. Peace will come.
You are making big changes to become a fully fledged independent Ginger with her own resources. This is a moment of rebirth. It's frightening I know and anxious making but it's terrific and wonderful too.
You got this.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
The trust in myself has been seriously tested over the last 24 hours. I got what my mortgage payment would be and it is higher than I thought. Pushing me to my total limit. My dad, of course, came out guns blazing, freaking out. So we had our differences last night. I am stuck making a huge decision which is so gray, and I cannot afford to be wrong on it.
Do I take the risk, take this house, praying nothing major goes wrong with it, because I don't have the emergency fund to fix anything major with that kind of monthly payment, or do I hold tight, risking not getting anything near what this house is?
It's a seller's market. Will the bubble burst anytime soon? I don't know. Basically, if I make this decision and I am somehow wrong, I get a huge "I told you so, sorry, can't help you"
If the numbers were absolutely too high, this would be easy. But they are on the cusp. DO I take a risk, or don't I? Do I just hope something else comes along as nice for much cheaper?
I really don't know and I have to decide ASAP.
My metal fortitude is weak. But I am from Brooklyn, and I have faced much greater challenges, and I have landed on my feet. Thank you UR.
As far as hatchet guy as I will call him. I did say something yesterday. I told him I was getting mixed signals and if he wasn't interested, he can be straightforward. He said he was and we had a phone convo last night. Dating, and online dating causes many challenges. After getting ghosted, or the slow fade, or seeing so many people's different communications patterns, you just don't know anymore. So we had a good convo, he is indeed interested, (scared I ruined it by saying something, but I am all for communication these days, and if someone can't handle honest communication, they aren't for me. he does have his son on a 50% schedule. He said the plus side is, and I didn't even know he did this Friday, is his brother rents from him and that means he has a built in babysitter. His brother watched his son last Friday. He puts his son to bed, is there when he gets home in the morning. So he said maybe he will see if his brother can do that Saturday night.
So much going on. I am mentally exhausted. I need some clarity, because I don't have that right now.
It's an easy decision. You have to get money from your Dad to buy the house and you're marginal with regard to the monthly payment. You can't afford the house. If you buy the house, you'll become a slave to the house. Why would you want to do that?
I think this administration reimplemented deregulation banking policies like they did before the last housing policy.
Anyone here know more about that? That could indicate another bubble.
Its definitly a sellers market. I am seeing shacks go for half a million. But theres also a lot of preforeclsures.
I guess you have to weigh what you would spend in rent.
From what i have seen, something always goes wrong with a home. You will have to put money in it. So if that will lead you into foreclosure i wouldnt do it.
Doodler, that 30 percent rule doesnt apply here. We make the same salaries sometimes less then other regions yet the the taxes, home costs are crazy here. Most people (professionals) work a min of 2 jobs to afford a home. Single income families are rare. Rents are insane and unstable as well. Like 1000 a month for an illegal 1 bedroom basement apartment 2 hours from the city 10 years ago in a poorer neighborhood and not including utilitites.
Thats why we have the reputation for rudeness and neurosis!
I spend a lot of time listening to Bloomberg's analysts and other economists - yep - I'm just that exciting.
Be prepared to yawn and fall asleep.
A key function of household affordability is the mortgage interest rate. It's taken as a given that rates are on their way up as the Federal Reserve normalizes rates and reduces their quantitative easing more. Here in Upper Middle Kanukistan the government has both allowed rates to rise and also introduced stress tests for buyers requiring them to be able to sustain a few extra points of interest before they would back the loan through CMHC (kinda like Freddie / Fannie).
I'm also hearing some disturbing noise about more investors going to cash and a "normalization" of volatility. We've been in this up cycle for quite a long time. Much longer than normal and a lot of very smart people seem to be bracing for a downturn. The risks of a downturn increase with the possibility of a systemic shock like - say a trade war between Western economies. There is also a lot of turmoil in parts of the world associated with oil production that increases risk of a systemic shock.
How will this affect house prices? In Brooklyn? I have no bloody clue which is why I'm intending on investing in a new quit to keep warm and a new roof to stay dry
But it can be a given that borrowing costs are only going to be going up in the short term at least.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I agree with Doodler. If you don't have savings to handle financial emergencies you're not prepared to be a homeowner.
Things happen. Roofs leak. Dishwashers break. Water heaters break. Pipes clog. You must be financially prepared to handle these things.
PLUS - you REALLY don't know where you want to be. You complain all the time about this town, so why buy there? Sounds like mortgage and property taxes and repairs and maintenance will be more than rent, I'd skip it.
You really only build equity a few ways: -Sweat equity - buying a fixer upper for a below market price and doing most of the work yourself. I've done this but it's exhausting and requires time and skills; your energy is better spent elsewhere right now.
-Buy and hold forever - yes, if you buy a house and live in it for twenty years you will have some equity - although it's not as good an investment as most people think. You're not in a position to make that commitment.
-Buy at the bottom of the market. This is tricky because most people don't have money when the market is down because the economy is also down. However you have pretty good job security in healthcare even in a recession so you might be in a position to take advantage of the next recession if you save up.
- Buy a property that is also a rental - like a place you can have roommates or convert a basement to an apartment or a duplex. Being a landlord has its own problems but you're putting their money to work for you.
juju is absolutely right. Unfortunately, in the region we live in, rarely is anyone able to follow the "rules" of home ownership. It's nearly impossible unless you have a 2 high earning income household.
I don't live in Brooklyn, anymore, although I am not far from it. You have to be among the rich and famous to buy in Brooklyn these days,
I am stuck in not the best spot. Leaving town is a non-negotiable for me. It is not a wise decision for my daughter. I would have to leave the state all together for it to have any positive financial impact, and that is just not doable thanks to laws and jobs and my daughter needing her father in her life. One town left, or one town right the prices are equal or higher.
I do not have the luxury of waiting for the market to be low. I will be kicked out of my home soon.
There is no rental in town any cheaper. I have the last one.
I would not be a landlord. I could go buy the house I live in now and become one. That responsibility is not physically and/or financially doable.
Well, my dad kind of decided for me. I withdrew my offer. It does not feel like the right move in my gut. I spoke with the mortgage broker and he honestly felt like buying this home was the right move. There were a lot of variables to be considered for the pros and the cons. It wasn't so black and white. But in the end, I can't make a decision that does not make the family comfortable.
My dear child told her classmate who we would be living next door to that we got the house along with every one else. She is heartbroken. I wish she hadn't said anything, but despite how many times I warn her to keep personal business personal, she has no filter and blurts everything out.
This has been a bad week.
I beg, please, just understand the right decision for my daughter is staying in town and not moving out of state. Sure, you can everything is a decision, but this is one that had to be made. It is not an option on the table whatsoever.
Well, looks like I'm late to the party but I think you made the correct decision - for whatever that's worth.
But perhaps now is the time to start planning better for the future????? By that I mean, what about socking away some additional money? And don't say it cannot be done because nearly always it can. It's amazing how when someone is making $90,000/year (not saying you) they sometimes think they can't cut or save. Then, they lose their job or get cut to $60,000 and manage to shrink their spending to fit their new income. I've seen this time and again where people will spend what they have but shrink it when they absolutely have to. We spend what we have. The trick is to shrink it when you don't have to. There have to be things you can cut - I know there are. If you could somehow put 10% of your income away for a couple of years you'd have a cushion, a fall back for house repairs, or a down payment. Financial planners can really help with this. I don't know enough about your specifics to say where this might be found. For some it's as simple as stopping Starbucks three or four times a week and going out to dinner three or four less times a month. It may be a different car and car payment. It might start with different car insurance, a cheaper cable or no cable plan. But specifics aside it can be done and would put you in a better place for the next time.
As for the moving - again, anything is possible. You may be choosing not to and with good reason, but people do it all of the time.
Finally, did you ever really check into this eviction thing? Ever listen to Handle on the Law? I'd put in the website but can't. Anyhow, I've heard him talk several times about this very topic and it is very city and state specific. I've heard him tell people who are about to or have purchased a duplex or 4 unit to just give up - there is no way they are going to evict the people living there based on the rules of their jurisdiction. In general, it's not really as easy as - "I bought the building and you have to go." It just does not work that way - with exceptions of the buyer is going to move in him or herself or they are doing a total remodel. If you have not fully checked this out - please do.
Don't set up strawmen to be torn down. "I will be kicked out of my home soon." And you are 100% positive of this why? Or "There is no rent in town any cheaper." Again, I'm sure there is - of course it may also come with trade offs, but it's likely somewhere.
I don't want to beat you up too bad here as I know how crappy this all is. But, everything happens for a reason. I can't tell you how many times I missed out on something only to find something so much better. Had I not missed out, I'd have been stuck with the inferior whatever it was. No one knows what the future holds for the market or housing or any of it. I'm of the mind that we still have a ways to go and have remained just as invested as I was 5 years ago during this run up. I moved a few things around but that's it. I know less about real estate but from what I can tell, we may still have a ways to go here as well. It's clearly a sellers market. Sadly, the better time to buy was a few years ago. That said, I think we'll be saying that again a few years from now.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
When people buy a rental unit (not saying you) they usually budget the mortgage payment and taxes as just 70% of the cost - with the remaining 30% going to maintenance and repairs.
So if this new place with PITI (don't forget the insurance) was going to cost as much as rent, (after figuring in the tax benefit which for you may not be that much as your taxes as a single mom are already probably lower) then renting is actually cheaper than buying still (because you dont have the additional 30% cost for maintenance and repairs).
I am on the opposite side. Take the risk, if you need to do so get a room mate.
Just do it, get on the ladder. And then chip away at the mortgage, sell second hand clothes on eBay, eat bread and jam. If an emergency crops up handle that bridge as you cross it.
My thoughts
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I can't really put us into tight of a spot because of my child. again, just me, whatever. Not her. There is no room for a roommate in the house. I couldn definitely cut down on some of the finer things in life, but we aren't living off of PB&J for the home.
Anyways, I don't have it, it isn't mine, and I have sold my freakin dining set, and now after tonight, there will be a big hole where that was. It's just all just driving up my anxiety, making me sad an overwhelming me. Luckily, I got my Xanax prescription refilled, had one and a glass of wine last night and actually slept through the night, which I never do.
I am also off tomorrow for a D10 school event in the morning, then I have a hair appt. Saturday morning, D10 and I are doing a charity grocery store bagging even in the morning. Should be fun.
I didn't hear from hatchet guy yesterday. Nor did I reach out. Whatever happens, happens. I guess I have enough on my plate.
And I'm going to be in Mexico in 10 days! I hope my liver is ready!!!!
Looks like good advice overall on the house stuff. I know little about it but earlier in the year I was taking a Dave Ramsey class to understand finances better. I also planned to get a house sometime this year but things change after taking the class and I realized it's just not the right time. A house is nice but you don't need it either, no need to keep up with the Jones. Renting is fine for a time if it's the phase you need to be in. As said above there's always options even if you don't think so right now.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
I know you want to purchase a home and finally get settled into one place, but it may not be the right time for you financially. Maybe it would be best to look for another rental and this would allow you more time to search for that special place.
I'd like to give you an example....I had new neighbors move in next door to me 2.5 years ago. They had rented for years. Unfortunately, after 6 mths, they admitted that they were house poor. They didn't realize just how much it costs to keep up a home. They had to purchase a new dryer, hot water heater, have the septic pumped and now the roof is leaking around the flashing. The yard is now a mess because both husband and wife are working constantly to pay the mortgage. They loved the home and thought it was in really good shape, or so they thought, because the previous owners had done a good job of hiding some of the issues.
Had my neighbors spoken to all of the neighbors, we could have advised them of some of the major issues with the home. They paid far too much for the place. A word of caution to you...when you do find a place that you are interested in, don't settle for what the owners and realtor have to say about the place....ask the neighbors. They will be able to tell you a little bit about the place as well. After all, they don't have a horse in the race for selling the place.
You have a vacation coming up...go and have fun. When you return, your battery will be recharged and you'll be ready to look for a new place to rent. Now that school is ending, people will begin moving around and hopefully there will be plenty of places to look at.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I tried to have the tough girl attitude about hatchet guy, but the truth is, I am hurt. I gave him the opportunity to tell me he is not interested but he pretended like he was and I haven't heard from his since. Since Tuesday night. ANd it hurts. I keep typing something to text him, mostly because I don't want him to have the easy way out of ghosting me. I want to call him on his cowardness. But I type it and delete it. What does it matter?
My house, It was twice a tease. Now I just hang in balance. Renting isn't an option either. SO I hope for the best.
D10 had her wax museum so I took the day off. YOu know what? She never told her father about it. We have been working on the poster, the speech, the costume for weeks, and he had no clue. I leave things up to her to tell him. She doesn't even see someone who is involved in her life. Daddy takes her to parties and on vacations. Mommy makes stuff happen. I took her to the craft store to get her stuff to make him something for father's day. I have been watching her make him his gift.
Everything is a tease. I think something good is finally happening, then it really all is "haha psyche!" kind of moment and the good stuff I work towards disappears. The house, the guy, my family, everything.
It hurts. I've just been going through this for too long. I feel like I am just being punished all the time. Like karma keeps crashing into me with her bus. I feel completely undeserving of love and security.
I can't stop tears and I keep telling D10 It's something sad on TV. Maybe I'll take her for ice cream, even though I am fat, but it would probably make both of us feel good:) I did go to the gym and had a kick butt kickboxing work out. I let loose so bad, I moved the bag across the floor.
Hey girl - Just to give you a little opposite perspective on Hatchet guy (because I WAS you once):
My life right now is really full. Super full. So full that I was happy to just visit my Zlove Avoidant friend once a month, until he ghosted me (or fell and broke his hip and died in his apartment, I have no way of actually knowing).
So I met a new guy for a glass of wine and agreed to a date this weekend. But he spooked me by pushing to see me three times this week! I had to slap him down (points for him though, he took my bluntly worded "hint" and backed way off on the communication, so our date tomorrow is still on).
What this experience taught me though is that for those Love Avoidant guys, my perfectly reasonable, twice a week kind of texting might feel to them just like this new guy felt to me. It never feels good to feel pressure from someone you have just met.
Think about those girls we all knew and hated but envied that had all the boys buzzing around them. They never waited on a guy, they always knew another one would come by in a minute.
You need to fake yourself into that mindset. Plan dates for this weekend, with friends of other guys or whatever. Go out and be seen. Don't be too available if hatchet guy pops back up.
You only just met him so who knows what his trip is. You might never find out but I doubt it has anything to do with you since you had a nice date. Don't waste too much energy just keep moving forward,
You need to fake yourself into that mindset. Plan dates for this weekend, with friends of other guys or whatever. Go out and be seen. Don't be too available if hatchet guy pops back up.
You only just met him so who knows what his trip is. You might never find out but I doubt it has anything to do with you since you had a nice date. Don't waste too much energy just keep moving forward,
So much yes to this.
This is definitely something I've tried/am still trying to do...the fake yourself into that mindset.
It's really hard, and it feels like I'm such a fraud doing it sometimes, like it's not the real me somehow, that I can't keep it up for more than a few milliseconds, or that I'll be found out or humiliated somewhere along the line.
And then I noticed something interesting happening. At some point the fake it till you make it becomes your default mindset.
And I also noticed that you slip back into the worrying mindset less often. And when you do, you really notice it as it feels horrible, or downright weird, and like you're expending your energy in the wrong way...in a not constructive way, so you stop yourself from going down that route.
I'm sure it's something to do with how your brain works. Something to do with not being able to tell the difference between what you're imagining and what's actually happening in the outside world. Both feel as real to it, releasing the same hormones in your body.
I think that's probably why sportspeople visualise winning races and competitions and tell themselves how they're going to feel, or why performers do it as well. They're literally training their brains and taking control of their mindset.
I find it really, really fascinating. It's helped me lots and lots over these past few years.
One thing I've noticed about you is that you go "all in". In fact you probably eat tacos with both hands instead of holding your pinkie out dabbing at your lips with a napkin between bites
Who knows what's up with hatchet guy? I certainly don't. Given the dynamics of online dating and the fact that he sounded like a "catch" he may well have a half-dozen different women that he is spending time with. Take Dawn's example where she had a couple of different guys that she was seeing at any one time.
That's (from my outside view) the way it's done. In some ways it's a sad "pick me" dance but it does seem to be the way that people meet each other these days.
We all wish that our fairy godmothers would show up with some mice, a pumpkin and those helpful woodland creatures that do the dusting. One thing I've learned painfully over the last few years is the only thing that happens quickly is disappointment. I know you've learned that lesson even more than I have and I give you credit for still hoping and still trying.
Kudos to you and your D though for making a good life for yourselves. It sounds like she has clear and realistic expectations of both her parents. It's like I used to joke with my kids. If they want something done well, ask their mother. If they wanted it to get done, ask me.
((G))
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Holy Heck! Andrew, that may have been one of the best posts you've made. Especially "the only thing that happens quickly is disappointment." That is just so true - especially when one person is just causally letting life happen (potentially hatchet man) and the other is really, really hoping to find someone after striking out so many times (potentially Ginger). It's time like this that disappointment comes very quickly.
Ginger, I so get it - I've been there. It's like, when am I (when are you) going to get a break and things fall together? I just know how it goes. You meet someone that you are attracted to, then start making them into what you would hope they will be, but all along they are just living life and not a quarter as invested yet.
Many of us have said it before, you tend to go all in so fast. It's just you. That does not make you bad, but it may hinder things for you with guys. I know you don't think you are showing him you are that interested, but you are. We guys can sense it. I'm sure girls can too.
I can just recall times in my life. I remember meeting a cousin or something of a good friend of mine many years ago. We had casual fun in a group for a couple hours and I asked for her number and I think gave her a short kiss when we all parted. Well, I never called. It was not her, I was just living life. I didn't even think she would care or was that interested. She was soooooo upset as I heard later and I was such an A-Hole for not calling. She made it into so much more, after being divorced a few years prior. There was nothing wrong with her, I just didn't followup for whatever reason. It was totally ME. I also know that the times things have worked out, it's when I'm trying the least. Now, that has not gotten me anywhere as of late so I am trying more but I really have to temper it. But I can think back in my life and for the most part, the girls that didn't chase me are the ones I connected with more.
I know you know all of this. The hard part is really living it, feeling it, being it. I just so want to give you a huge hug and let you know I get it. I just know it's going to change, if not now, a few years down the road. D10 will not be D10 forever. You have so much life to go yet and she will not need as much of your time, etc. forever. The life you have today is NOT possibly going to be the life you have in 2, three, or five years.
As for hatchet guy, who knows? He could be a coward. Some guys would rather say they are interested because they don't want the fallout of saying otherwise. And some girls don't take it well - as many guys don't. You and I would just tell them - or at least most of the time we would. The best advice I can give you is to keep thinking "It's not me, it's something with him at this point in time" because the truth of the matter, that is very likely the case. It's not something you've done, not done, how you look, or any of it. One thing though, had you not had a 7 hour date with him, you may have left him wanting more and wanting it sooner. This has happened before but you keep doing it. Even if you are having a great time, you have to HAVE TO not give too much too fast. You've got to make these guys want you - come to you. You have to be a little harder to get. Doing otherwise just does not work 90% of the time.
Hang in there! Do something fun this weekend and take your mind off of it all! Because IT'S NOT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
haha, ANdrew, that is an accurate assessment, I do go "all in" What that does mean, is I don't do anything half-arsed. (except clean). I put my whole self into things, yes. Absolutely.
Unfortunately the things that have been happening are the straws that broke the camel's back. If you look at why I am so upset and frustrated, it isn't because of one isolated bad experience, it's over a long period of time.
I can't catch a break, even when I really feel as if I am "due" and took the precautions and did the leg work, and nothing ends up as it appears, and I simply find myself back in the same situation I was trying to get out of. The isolated incidences begin to weigh heavier. This goes for the house, the guy, everything.
Hatchet guy, well, by all appearances, I let myself take our great time for face value. I took Juju's advice, I even measured for values, good family, good father, ect. By all appearances, there is no reason why this should have went the way it did. But it did. ANd yeah, he probably has a whole bunch of women, who knows. I sent him a message yesterday saying " the signals are no longer mixed, they are quite clear, best wishes to you". Nothing back of course.
I am truly a genuine person. What you see is what you get, no games, nothing. I just keep having to deal with the most ingenuine people ever. I do have a hard time wrapping my head around not being able to trust someone at face value anymore.
Anyways, It is what it is. My deep sadness is truly a culmination of 10 years of trying to find a decent guy and an R to last longer than 6 months and not to be as special to someone as they are to me, where I am not so disposable. It's not this one isolated instance of a guy being a dick.
Will I never not put my whole self into something? Well, I don't know if I am capable of not doing that. But what I am worried about is I can't even trust the person I am being shown anymore. If things seem good, I can't even trust it anymore. ANd that's not who I am, but who I am going to find myself turning into.
D10 is of course with her father today, and I am going to my nephews birthday pool party. I'll be one of the few sans kids or husbands, but that's ok. The nice thing is I can just enjoy the sun, drinks, food, and not have to chase around any children, lol. On the other hand, I am the one who help the overwhelmed parents and let them relax while I take care of their kids.
I even find myself dreading going back to work a bit. I have ot make work work for me. I am putting my foot down on the way people treat me there, what I am willing to do, what I am not willing to do and I insist on getting out on time and letting others handle it.
And here I am scrolling through FB and my exH pops up with his friend. (I am FB friends with his friend's mom). He wasn't even home last night with our D. ( it was my weekend, but of course he gets father's day).
This happens more often than not lately on his time. It wouldn't bother me so much if didn't have such little custody time. This is the life he wanted. He got it!
Let me preface this by saying I am just about the least experienced dater ever, so maybe this is not how it works, but...
I don't understand why you are so quick to write off hatchet man.
Is a fast path the only possible path to a good thing? Can't you have a great date one week, and a few casual texts the next, and another date in two weeks, and gradually build a relationship?
Does it have to be all or nothing right from the start?
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Let me preface this by saying I am just about the least experienced dater ever, so maybe this is not how it works, but...
I don't understand why you are so quick to write off hatchet man.
Is a fast path the only possible path to a good thing? Can't you have a great date one week, and a few casual texts the next, and another date in two weeks, and gradually build a relationship?
Does it have to be all or nothing right from the start?
Valid question. I can see why you think that might be how it is with me.
No, I am not like that. I have so much on my plate, that constant communication doesn't work for me at all. But radio silence with no texts at all.... I am not into that. It's not all or nothing with me. But there has to be SOMETHING. I am not into nothing for a week then a last minute date sort of thing. Those days are over for me. Show an ounce of interest and effort. He had mentioned trying to get his brother to watch his kid so we could go out Saturday night. You think he would have told me yes or no? Nope, nothing.
If that makes me needy, then maybe I am? I just think there are certain manners to have. If you aren't interested, JUST SAY SO.
I realize I do not fit into today's dating world. There is a high level of inconsideration and disconnect. I don't want a relationship off the bat, I don't come off that way, but I want common courtesies. I am not someone you call up for a good time when you are bored.
I do have an expectation of being treated a certain way. I have been treated like crap from most men, and I don't want that anymore. I also have some sort of twisted expectation to be treated the way I treat them. Unrealistic, I know.
On last vent, then I promise to disappear until I have something good to say:
ExH spent father's day with his best friend who's mother I am FB friends with. So I pretty much saw his day on FB. ALl the little families there dressed matchy matchy, and I had to see my daughter, exH and OWW dressed to match. I saw this at my nephew's pool party and tears just started streaming down my face. Luckily, I had sunglasses on. It was like someone punched me in the gut.
It's one thing to have your husband cheat on you. Another to have him do it when you are pregnant. Then leave you when the baby is born. Then for that that woman. Then for him to marry her. And have them stay together. Then watch them be a family. It is actually gut wrenching at times. ANd just cruel. I wish some days he didn't have to marry the one cheated on me with. ANyone else. But not her. ANd then I have to be always gracious to her. Because she is my daughter's stepparent.
Cruel is the only word I can use. Oh, and painful. No matter how over him I am, I may never be over what happened to my family. It just isn't right.
Then I come home alone and just cry, and on no one's shoulder.
I sent him a total P/A text too, but I don't think he realized it. I said "Happy Father's day, I saw pics it looked like fun. Cute matching outfits" I couldn't help myself. He loved the gift. I brought D10 to the craft store for her to paint something for him and she chose a picture frame. Since I have no pictures of her and her dad, I told her to ask OWW for one to put int he frame. He thanked me for everything.
To top it all off, I broke out in some sort of rash from the sun which has never happened to me in my life.
I still feel like God is testing me to see how much I can take. I'm pretty much at my limit. Seeing them today, as a family, kicked my butt and opened some wounds.
I'll be back again when I have something good to say.
To top it all off, I broke out in some sort of rash from the sun which has never happened to me in my life
Disney rash - or golfer's rash???
I just learned about this over the weekend! It's really called vasculitis or Hypersensitivity vasculitis and happens in extreme heat while walking a lot - like in a theme park or golf course. Do you have red spots on your lower legs? I guess there is some cream you can put on it but really the only "treatment" is sitting in a cool place, resting/not walking, with your feet up? My somewhat lazy friend that got it while on a vacation to Hawaii totally used this as his excuse to lay on the couch and do nothing for several days! LOL
Not sure if that's what you have or not - just thought it might be... or because I just learned about it I jumped to this diagnosis.
Matching outfits - OMG, soooooo not me!!!!! LOL. Someday I'd like to see who came up with the "statistical fact" that R's that start as an affair hardly ever survive. How can it be then that your H's did and my exW is on year 12 (or for all I know even more than that) with her AP? Yeah, that happened, but would you really want him anyway? It so totally [censored] Ginger but you really should consider yourself luck you are still not dealing with all of his BS - and you will be once you find someone. You'll be so glad you are no longer with him and not care.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Someday I'd like to see who came up with the "statistical fact" that R's that start as an affair hardly ever survive. How can it be then that your H's did and my exW is on year 12 (or for all I know even more than that) with her AP? Yeah, that happened, but would you really want him anyway? It so totally [censored] Ginger but you really should consider yourself luck you are still not dealing with all of his BS - and you will be once you find someone. You'll be so glad you are no longer with him and not care.
First of all, G, ditto what Don said about considering yourself lucky that you aren't having to deal with his BS, at least from the standpoint of being his wife. You still have to deal with his BS related to your precious D, but that is a whole other issue.
Don, I agree about curiosity where the statistics are concerned too. My XH married his affair partner not quite a year after we divorced. While they have not been married real long (about 3 years), they are doing well, by all accounts. Of course, the way I see it, he was married to his first XW for about 17 years, me for about 9, so that gives her about 4 1/2 if his trend of cutting them in half continues, so we'll see. I don't care if he marries every other woman on the planet, I won't ever marry him or even be anything but necessarily cordial for the sake of the daughters and grandkids.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
I am not on any meds other than my usual Zoloft, so it was kind of weird. Only on my arms and just itchy. A little better today, thankfully.
I know I am fortunate not to be with him anymore. It just stings watching them play happy happy in their matching outfits. I think it's kind of balsy to do that with someone elses kid, but whatever. His marriage will most likely last, until something better comes along, but he is extra undesireable now, so, yeah,they will will unhappily ever after. My mom was my dad's second M and that was almost 25 years, and this year I think it was his 16th anniversary with #3? So the statistics really are crap.
Well, my cousin decided to hook me up with a coworker and I have a date Saturday night. he is a divorced father of 2 very young ones. he was an actor (been in soap operas) a minor league baseball player, but he is also a project manager where she works.
Oh, and he's black. I have never dated a black guy before. I've crushed on a few, but never dated one. he is into the white chicks, as his ex wife was one. I appreciated the immediate text, making a date, choosing a place he felt I would like according to what my cousin said.
So, if anything, I have a date Saturday night instead of staying in with my Netflix.
So, if anything, I have a date Saturday night instead of staying in with my Netflix.
And that date did not occur as a result of on line apps!!! Of course, as we've established, many times friends and relatives put two people together mostly because they are both single. But you never know.
Something I really admire about you G is while you do get down, pretty much no matter what, you always seem to get right back out there! That's an awesome trait!
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Hope the black guy turns out to be a good date. A couple things I've liked about black men: They like my curves (I'm carrying a few extra pounds right now but even when I was underweight I always had a booty. ) it's great to be with a guy who considers it an asset.
Women in general and black men have faced similar struggles to be taken seriously in the world and often I find a mutual understanding.
People of all colors come in varieties of attractiveness, but the handsomest men I've known have been black men.
(Speaking of which, a physician in a new practice nearby came by my office to introduce himself today. My oh my. Movie star handsome black man. EVERY woman in the office commented. Too bad he had a wedding ring on!)
There are so red flags to me that my cousin doesn't see as a red flag, because most people would think it is actually a great thing.
he was married in 2013, had 2 kids, divorced last year. The reason being? "It just wasn't working" They are very amicable.
To most, this is a good case scenario. To me? He's the type to throw in the towel when things aren't perfect. They had babies, for goodness sakes, how does it "just not work?"
That aside, my other dates haven't been all that good, my luck with men from every situation has s$cked, so I figure, I'll go out, give it a chance and see what he is all about.
I currently locked myself in my office because I am about to go ape sh!t on the social worker who runs so hot and cold with me and she had an outburst in the meeting this morning because I had said something she wanted to say. I would go to my manager on her, but she has been here 40 years, every one and their mother has went to HR on her I've been told, but not a thing has been done.
So, I either make enemies who will make my life heck, or I sit here and shut up and just go about my day, because I need the money, I have a child to feed and a house to buy.
Oh, so my landlord has only been showing my side of the house because the neighbors won't let him in. Someone wants to put in an offer but they won't unless they see the other side. He needs ot get cops to go in.
So, I have been letting him show the place whenever says make it hard for him. But he comes up to my door and asks and doesn't even call, so I can't avoid his phone calls. Then I feel like a real a-hole an di let him show it. But I was mad he scheduled more showings and at different times than he said on Saturday. I asked him to please not do that again. So, no on eis probably going ot want to deal with the drama of my neighbors which will affect the sale of the house. So hopefully, I still have time to bide.
less than 2 weeks until vacation. I need to decompress so badly because I am getting really testy and b!tchy.
he was married in 2013, had 2 kids, divorced last year. The reason being? "It just wasn't working" They are very amicable.
To most, this is a good case scenario. To me? He's the type to throw in the towel when things aren't perfect. They had babies, for goodness sakes, how does it "just not work?"
I'm with you, girl, the words "amicable divorce" almost always makes me pass up someone's profile, even though I imagine there MIGHT be some amicable divorces out there. But usually I assume those are the words of the WAS. And yes, with little kids, how do you not try harder?
Now I suppose, he could be a gentleman who is not willing to step out and say "she was a lesbian" or "she was an alcoholic". But yeah, I'd be asking him a lot of questions.
(I HOPE, for your sake, he's something like the doctor who came to our office yesterday - we are ALL besotted with him. Movie star handsome black Stanford grad with a super nice demeanor - my staff can't stop drooling lol).
Tomorrow night is the date! We spoke on the phone for an hour the other night. I got some more info on the divorce thing. He is quite well-lived this guy. We did really hit it off in convo and he texted me yesterday that he is finding himself pretty excited for the date. If anything, we are going to a really neat place which should be fun. I am even breaking out my new black dress.
At least he has been pre screened and I am not walking into the complete unknown. We shall see how it goes.
He didn't get into much detail yet. Basically they were an older couple when they got together, and she is a highly successful CEO. She makes 4x as much as him, but he also makes a lot of money. He said she kind of got married and had kids because that's what she was supposed to and she just didn't want to be married. She was also resentful of the fact she made more money even though he makes a very comfortable living.
Unfortunately they were an awful match. I know morally when you have kids, that you shouldn't have the luxury of deciding you wrong for eachother. But she didn't want to be married and he couldn't fight it.
Amicable means they get along, but they aren't friends. Which I think is better than them being besties.
OK G, I found it....you silently lurking over here I am surprised you guys got into the whole D conversation. The last two girls I have chatted with have not even asked.
OK G, I found it....you silently lurking over here I am surprised you guys got into the whole D conversation. The last two girls I have chatted with have not even asked.
I'm glad we did, because it did bug when I found out he married in 2013, had 2 kids and just got divorced.
If you want a good laugh, I'll tell you my best OLD story.
I go on a date with this guy, not too attracted, but whatever. He mentions that he sees on my profile about my longest relationship being 10 years, so he inquired on the date. I simply told him I was divorced. So I asked him about the 10 year relationship he mentions on his profile.
He tells me that relationship was with God. He just left the priesthood 6 months prior! Trying to hide my shock was not easy. When he called me "Hot" during the date I was grossed out, I have to admit. You can tell he was ready to go for his first time!
Well, yeah I can understand why you would wonder about that. Definitely some red flags!
I am sure the priest had some pent up frustration that he needed to release......too funny! I actually feel kind of sorry for whoever was the recipient of that I also don't think you should be calling someone "hot" or handing out too many compliments on your first date.......maybe a "You like nice tonight" or "I really like that dress" would be about as far as I would go.
The girl I am going out with on Saturday I hadn't spoke to since Sunday so we went 3 days without speaking. I did tell her I would get in touch with her as we got closer to Saturday but I didn't give her a specific time to reach out. I think some times there is too much texting that goes back and forth which seems to kill some attraction. It's like why even have the date when you already know everything there is to know.
That is why I called that teacher out of the blue on the phone. She would take 2 to 3 days to respond to my emails, she did text my phone and gave me her number but if she was really that interested she wouldn't have waited that long. So I called to tip my toe in the water and when she didn't return my call that is all I needed to know.
I also don't think you should be calling someone "hot" or handing out too many compliments on your first date.......maybe a "You like nice tonight" or "I really like that dress" would be about as far as I would go.
I'm not so sure you are correct about this Joe and if some of the things I've read are correct, you are not. They claim that the "you look nice tonight" types of comments will put you in the nice guy friend zone with many women. G would have been grossed out regardless of what he said. It's not that he called her hot, it's that he just left the priesthood. Lol.
But again, I'm no expert on women - ain't that the truth. Lol. Maybe G can prove her perspective. You certainly have to guage who you are with, but I really believe as I've read that well delivered, respectful but still stimulating comments help to build attraction.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I agree with Joseph on this. It's gross when guys tell women they are hot on the first date. To me, it implies that the man is only interested in the woman as an object to satiate the man's need.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Some types of men are linear, if they think you are hot they will say so. It's their view of hot though and may not apply generally.
They think it's a compliment and it will endear you to them. It's a sort of verbal wolf whistle. I think look to the totality of the experience, even if he is on heat.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
That is totally gross. I've been very fortunate, all of my dates look like Winston Churchill in drag. I avoid the word "hot" at all costs.
I "thought" you were familiar
Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a proper version of the bow tie that Sir Winston wore? His official tailor flogs a version that has the wrong pattern. Not all navy blue polka-dotted bow ties are the same.
I of course have one that matches the many photographs of Sir Winston that he wore as a tribute to his father. I also used to enjoy a good cigar.
Sorry Ginger. This was more than a thread-jack - this was taking your thread in to the back alley, changing the tires, a fresh paint job and then offering it for sale at Honest AP's discount threads
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Ginger - sounds like his story could be plausible. As a feminist, it really bugs me that we often see here women that dump their husbands because they're not as successful as the wife. The woman knows who she married but then when she has kids, is resentful that in order to stay home with her kids they would have to live on his salary.
Now the only red flag is if he has a career where he COULD have made more than 25% of her income but chose not to step up when she had kids - seems unlikely.
Most likely she married him to have kids then resented that he wasn't a CEO who could support her in the style to which she had become accustomed if she wanted to stay home with the kids; or he wasn't sufficiently powerful to show off on her arm at business related events. So unfair but as I said, a story I've seen here a lot. As for the whole "hot" question - yes, women like compliments but the word "hot" on a first date implies you're only thinking about sex and not taking the time to get to know the person. You can say gorgeous or beautiful, but even then, don't belabor the point. I want to know a guy finds me attractive but I don't want to feel like he's only interested in what's on the outside and not on what's inside.
So, I had a fabulous, busy, very GAL type of weekend, in which I neglected all of my domestic responsibilities. I don't regret it though.
My date. Well, wow! We hit it off amazingly well. He was incredibly well dressed and quite a gentleman. We started off at this speakeasy, but it had a very loud jazz band, and we were basically screaming at each other. So we moved to a new spot which was a little more intimate, with good drinks and a DJ. Our conversation was great, we flirted a lot, and we were definitely very attracted to each other. At one point, 2 sisters come sit next to him at the bar and were totally flirting with him, even with me right there. He's a very friendly out going guy and was talking to them, but I appreciated the way, he put his hand on my leg when he did. He is well lived, very intelligent, had different hobbies and talents. Above all he is a very dedicated father. He did tell me that he had no plans on dating and soley focusing on his kids, but when my cousin showed him the picture of the "beautiful brunette" he figured he didn't want to miss an opportunity.
Yes, there was some serious kissing, hand holding, all of that. It was pretty electric. he even said "I am not going to have to beg to see you again, right?" We will be seeing each other on Wednesday.
My cousin is away, but we were talking yesterday and she said I didn't just set you guys up because you are both single. I set you guys up because I though you would be a good match.
So, I have a small bit of security that has come with my most recent dating experiences. But I am hoping this second date happens and it as good as the first.
And I am sorry if that sounds "racist" but I totally understand the allure of nice black guy. Never did I see myself with one (usually not attracted) but oh, I am really attracted.
We shall see where this goes. Trust me, I don't get my hopes up, because making it past date one for me no matter how good, rarely happens these days. But this one is pretty genuine.
That's great Ginger, very happy you had such a nice night. Where in Mexico are you going? I've always had a good time when I go there, beautiful water and very affordable pricing, good combination
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
So, I had a fabulous, busy, very GAL type of weekend, in which I neglected all of my domestic responsibilities. I don't regret it though.
HA! Same here, I needed to get my yard mowed but that didn't happen!
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Yes, there was some serious kissing, hand holding, all of that. It was pretty electric. he even said "I am not going to have to beg to see you again, right?" We will be seeing each other on Wednesday.
WOOHOO! So describe electric? I don't know that I felt that way on mine towards her. When she walked into the room I don't think she took my breathe away. Is that how it's supposed to feel? Maybe it was my nerves or I was holding myself back.
Yes, there was some serious kissing, hand holding, all of that. It was pretty electric. he even said "I am not going to have to beg to see you again, right?" We will be seeing each other on Wednesday.
WOOHOO! So describe electric? I don't know that I felt that way on mine towards her. When she walked into the room I don't think she took my breathe away. Is that how it's supposed to feel? Maybe it was my nerves or I was holding myself back.
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Well, I have been on a few dates in my time, and I either have a strong connection, or I really have none. It honestly hasn't served me well in my time, though. It wasn't like I wanted to rip his clothes off the second I saw him, but I was initially very physically attracted to him. Then as the night went on talking to him, the attraction got stronger. You could just kind of "feel" the connection.
it could be 2 things, J. One, you aren't completely open to someone yet. I think that attraction comes when you are completely open to receiving it. I happen to be very open to it, so when it comes, I let it in.
Also, it was your first first date in a long time. No reason for the first one to feel that way. Perhaps her strong interest in you is making you feel a little uncomfortable right now.
You should be going on some more dates, with other women. And I usually give the second date a chance. If I am not feeling it after the second date, I pretty much know it's a no-go.
That's great Ginger, very happy you had such a nice night. Where in Mexico are you going? I've always had a good time when I go there, beautiful water and very affordable pricing, good combination
I am going to playa del Carmen. I've been to Mexico once when I was dating my ex and he was a store manager and had earned a trip with his coworkers to mexico. he got very very ill, so we spent most of the time in the hotel room except for the first day. So I am looking forward to really experiencing it.
It's all-inclusive, so eating, drinking, swimming, and sunbathing are on the agenda.
Thanks guys, I am going to be cautiously optimistic about this one. It helps I have an inside as to what he is thinking. Actually beginning of the date he said he promised my cousin a selfie, and we took one and we are a good lookin' couple, haha! The next morning he sent it to me:)
I know I need to slow my roll, but I just really think I earned something somewhat real and I am hoping this has the potential.
Also, it was your first first date in a long time. No reason for the first one to feel that way. Perhaps her strong interest in you is making you feel a little uncomfortable right now.
I think you are right......I think her strong interest makes me feel very uncomfortable. She told me she is very picky and has not went on a lot of dates. She also told me I was a "unicorn". So yes, I am uncomfortable.
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You should be going on some more dates, with other women. And I usually give the second date a chance. If I am not feeling it after the second date, I pretty much know it's a no-go.
I agree, I would like to go on more dates. I just don't want to hurt anyone. I guess I really need to try and let myself go on the 2nd date. Not be all touchy feely but just embrace it more, try not to be scared.
She seems super sweet, nice, caring, was interested in my girls, is spiritual, is obviously into me, she has read the 5 love languages, is affectionate, etc. I felt really comfortable around her as well, that it was a safe place. I am sure she could tell that I was new to this and she was really sweet and not judgmental about it all.
I went into trying to keep things high level, not bring up my Ex, D or anything but she kept probing, wanting to go deeper. What happened? Why didn't it work?
It's my first date though, I just don't want to hurt her and string her along.
.I think her strong interest makes me feel very uncomfortable.
Yes, Joseph - it does make one uncomfortable if your date seems more into you than you are into them. It can make you worry that their enthusiasm is for their FANTASY of who you are, instead of the real you, warts and all, because they don't really know you yet. STILL - isn't it nice to be validated? And isn't this better than a date finding you unattractive?
You're an adult dating an adult woman - sure, people's feelings can get hurt, but so long as you are honest it shouldn't be on you. I'm dating a guy right now who, to be honest, is not quite as handsome and devastatingly sexy as some of my past dates. But he's a solid guy with good values who actually wants to be in a relationship, and those other devastatingly handsome guys didn't work out so well, so I'm spending time with him to see what feelings develop. Right now his interest in me is higher than mine in him but not enough so for me not to give it a chance. (Secretly hoping that when the time comes he'll be really great in bed lol!)
Thanks K for the re-enforcement. I just need to remind myself that everyone knows the stakes in the dating game. This lady knows I am new in the game so she is aware of what she could be getting into.
I think it is happening to me again. Or I am just getting traumatized by my last few experiences.
So, cousin says he is a bad texter, which is fine. He did text me the morning after of the pic of us he took for my cousin. He wished me a good day and all that stuff. He texted me late at night after I had said something to him early in the morning, but he was over at his ex's house playing with the kids. I was sleeping, so I responded yesterday morning, early, when I have my 10 minutes of phone time upon awakening (sad, I know). Didn't hear from him all day.
So, then I have my inside and she did text him the morning after the date "so?" He replied "We had a lot of fun, I would ask her out again" and that was it. My cousin said he is not a kiss and tell kind of guy. So I left it alone and didn't hear from him all day.
We were going to see eachother on my kid free night which is tomorrow (and it turns out Thursday too) He told me wednesday should work, but here is Tuesday and nothing yet.
So, I am getting that feeling like this is happening to me again! Great first date, make a second date, then a freak out or something. But now I have no perception if my gut is right, or I am just paranoid it is going to keep happening.
It really stinks. Honestly. There are only so many times in a row this could happen and you simply let it roll off your back. I don't want to regret giving it another try after I get burned so much.
So, sometime today, if he doesn't text I am simply going to ask if we are still on for tomorrow. I feel my time is valuable and I don't want to get jerked around.
I hope my gut is just being confused over recent experiences and someone isn't dodging me again. I don't think he would, I think he would come out with it, but who knows.
Relax, girl! Have you never heard of the three day rule? Or playing hard to get?
Lots of perfectly good guys still wait three days after a date to call, so as not to appear over eager. YOU need to work on not appearing over eager. There's no quicker way to scare a guy off than appearing pushy. I know that your experiences have made you nervous but DONT let him see that!
About the whole hard-to-get business: it used to tick me off. As a feminist it made me mad that I was supposed to play that game. I'm not too good at it even now. However: the times when I have inadvertently been hard to get (because I've been really busy, or some emergency came up) I've seen men act much more interested.
One example - my recent second act with Love Avoidant guy that I had dated before crazy exBF. He and I had stayed in contact over the years with occasional texts and rare phone calls but I kept them to a minimum because I was with someone else. When exBF blew up Love Avoidant guy offered me his company; I thanked him and told him how nice it was to know he was there but wasn't ready yet. Several months later I offered to see him but he had a houseguest for a month. He called me after but I was busy. THEN he invited me to a dinner with friends at his house. Now, in all the time I'd known him I'd never met any of his friends! He was upping the ante to get me to come!
As it turned out I had to cancel because of discovering son's addiction and the intervention. Took a little longer before I was free to go visit him. By the time I did arrive he was dying to see me. None of it was on purpose, but just a reminder - men like to hunt. Don't make it too easy.
I agree G.....just a little patience. I can imagine that many times people get caught up in the emotions on dates and then the next morning or a couple of days later have a change of heart.
I am sure it's hard though especially after years of dating.
That's NOT what I'm saying. I doubt he had a change of heart - he sent you the selfie next morning. He's just a guy with a life who isn't breathlessly texting you. That doesn't mean he won't ask you out again - I believe he will but you have to appear less anxious and needy.
Let him contact you. You didn't set a hard date, so if he waits until the day of to ask you out, tell him you didn't hear from him so you made other plans. He'll learn soon enough to ask you out in advance.
Im sick of men and their hunting though. They want what doesnt come easy, but its not coming easy for a reason. When they have to hunt, they are gonna end up with
1. Either a woman that is going for other men 2. A woman playing games 3. A woman using them for dinners, gifts etc.
Ginger is a great catch and these men are just too stupid too realize it. So i agree, you have to play the game. Thats what makes you valuable to men. But it makes me realize how stupid the population is and its really fruatrating.
I empathize ginger. I really do. The more self serving you are, the better off you do on life.
Let's be clear - it's not only men who enjoy winning a woman over.We women often pass up the over-eager "good guys" for more challenging men that we have to seduce. Some of it's just human nature. And when someone is overly enthusiastic about us right from the start, we worry whether they are crazy about us or just their fantasy of us.
I'm dealing with that a bit with CMM - his total enthusiasm for a relationship with me was a little off putting. But I'm giving it a little time, because I do know that I'm a catch and why shouldn't he be excited about finding me???
Also - remember this guy wasn't dating. He wasn't actively looking for a soulmate. Sounds like he really liked you but he wasn't poised, ready to jump into a relationship so he might go a little slower than you expect AND that's ok! Give him some space. Don't be needy. Fake confidence until you make it.
Or sometimes the men get a woman who has a life and knows her value.
I dont think this is often the case. Look at ginger. How much more of a life can she get? She is an educated professional with a good skill set. Has lots of hobbies. Lots of friends. She is very attractive. Very outgoing.
I believe Her only obstacle is that she doesnt play the game. She is open about wanting a relationship and honest about her interest level and boundaries.
Men want the woman that doesnt notice if they are texting or calling. Well the reason these women dont notice is because they are already sleeping with other guys, or they are just not super interested. These women tend to be less emotionally healthy and are seeking and giving attention to the guys that use them.
But men dont get that, so they stupidly overlook a girl that knows her value and is just more open. They want the hunt. They feel they are getting their moneys worth that way.
So i agree with the concept that you have to recognize and play the game. Its a part of life. I play it on a daily basis at work, with my sons school district, with insurance companies etc. I would love to find someone that you didnt have to play the game with because it really is a silly part of the dynamics. How refreshing! But thats not reality.
Personally, i dont go for the type of guy i have to win over and seduce. I dont trust them and im not attracted to them. I dont want to ever feel the need to have to work hard to get a guy to notice me. I like the guys that seem trustworthy and enthusiastic.
Well I'm just saying - when I'm too busy to date a guy on his desired schedule, their interest in me inevitably goes UP, not down. I'm not saying Ginger doesn't have a life - but being TOO interested in someone new can scare them off, and being a little bit less available - even if in my case it's usually accidental - can be a good thing.
I know because I WAS Ginger when I was younger - it's only in hindsight that I can see that as a young woman, I was way too available and not confident in my own worth. Now I ASSUME that I'm all that and a bag of chips and any guy would be lucky to have me, and no surprise, they generally feel that way about me too! Not all of them are actually capable of relationships, but literally EVERY man I have dated since my divorce, at some point has said "I don't know WHAT your ex-husband was thinking!". (CMM just said this Sunday hahaha).
Confidence is attractive, neediness is not. It's ok to want him to step up to the plate but don't be needy about it - let him take the lead, and if he doesn't make plans in advance, don't be available - he'll learn soon enough to plan ahead.
This guy liked you, sent you the selfie, told you he was interested in another date AND told your friend he'd date you again. That's all good - don't scotch it by being pushy, have some patience.
I have been taking this all and such good opinions and feedback.
I really do not play the game well, nor do I have a desire, like Juju. I understand how not being so readily available or overly interested can diminish interest. But the one thing I cannot take is one minute the person is SO interested and the second I barely her from them.
I am stuck at a point where I really do think I am a catch (and thank you Juju). But I am left questioning myself in light of recent events. SO many different guys have so many different communication patterns and it is hard to reconcile.
This guy, whom my friend inappropriately nicknamed "hot chocolate" although he makes race jokes with the best of them..... actually said "You aren't going to make me beg for a second date, right?" I should have said "yup", haha.
I also do like guys who seem true to their word and somewhat enthusiastic. Not over the top love bombing kind, but excited to see me again.
That all being said, he did finally respond saying his week was good, but work was very busy...... and he asked if I am still free to meetup Wednesday. I told him yes and that I would be willing to go to his area (I like his area better than mine, it's trendier/more fun). he responded, "great! I have a couple of cool places in mind, what time are you available?"
So, I guess he is interested. I am learning, slowly. I've just dealt with so many dicks, sometimes I have a hard time distinguishing
G - I can tell you as a guy it is a fine balance to pursue but also not seem needy. All the self help books you read tell the guy to wait several days before making a second date and don't over pursue the ladies by blowing up their phone and getting to know them that way.
I also know that when I was out on my date Sat night I really wasn't that interested in the girl but I felt bad ending the date early so I saw it through. We did kiss at the end of the night but it didn't make my toes tingle.
I am not saying this is your situation but those are the things that went through my mind. Additionally she seemed very into me, texted me when she got home, and we also chatted a bit on Sunday. I tried to coordinate a second date with her yesterday but she never returned my text. I am not sweating it but obviously something has changed.
Again, not your situation but something similar to what you describe happened to me.
He also very well could have spoke to his buddies and they gave him some crap about playing it cool.
See? He came through totally appropriately. He is interested. Just let him take the lead.
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actually said "You aren't going to make me beg for a second date, right?" I should have said "yup", haha.
Yes! Playfulness like this is attractive! Guys like the chase so long as you're being playful about it. Use this line next time.
Btw - some people are texters and some not. I'm very busy at work and just don't have that much time to text - plus it could be a couple hours between a text and my response.
Here's my take - add and mix in with the others...
You've pretty much been doing the same thing, pretty much the same way (when you are really into the guy) and getting the same results. So in this I know we agree. Right? And how has that been working out for you? Again we agree. Right? So it's then a no brainer that if you keep doing the same things, you are going to keep getting the same things. Can we still agree?
You darn right you should have told him he was going to need to beg for a second date - even if you did it in a fun, suggestive manner. Call it a "game" I guess but it's no more a "game" than the LRT or 180s or acting as if or any of the other "plays" from the MWD "playbook."
I'm headed to my thread to relay my surprise to my third date with wild girl. I will be beyond floored if she does an about face on me, but I'll tell you, multiple times while we were together she dropped comments as if to say I'm going to need to beg her - well perhaps not beg - but she's not just assuming another date. For example, I'm betting I could have gotten her to stay over a second night (read my thread) yet when I told her, after she had left, that I was restocking my fridge with her fav beverage, she said "no rush." Oh really, Don thinks, after being in the mindset that it would be sooner rather than later when we'd need them. She nicely changed that dynamic and did it several times. In fact, we have no firm plans to do anything next, yet both of us assume that will happen - but are not blowing each others phone's up making it happen.
People that are too available just come off as either needy or not having any life. It's way easier when that's really the case - ie after having lots of time, I'm slammed this week through Sunday and still am getting requests to do things (not all dates, just "things"). I'm authentically busy which is much more interesting than - "I'm open any day or night this week, what do you want to do?"
In the moment, both men and women can get caught up. It's when that moment has passed that more rational thinking takes over and too much too soon becomes a real turn off. Then there is this, and not all guys do this on purpose or as players (clearly some do but not all) and after you sleep with us, we often move on. A good friend, drummer in a band I was in for a long time, used to always say "why do you want to climb the same mountain twice?" Clearly he WAS a player but you still get the point. You'll do much better by "fooling around," even naked, than having full on sex early on. They will clearly come back for more and earn it if you make them, but will just as clearly take it and move on if allowed to.
I think maybe the best advice I can give you right now and this will go to most everything is whatever time frame you think is appropriate, TRIPLE IT!!!! If you think he should have texted in a day - tipple it before getting concerned. If you think you are done waiting and are about to say "goodbye and good luck" after 5 days, wait about two weeks. If you think you should sleep with him on the second date - wait until the fifth or sixth. I am dead serious on all of this and anything else time-based. It's just you. Someone else's 5 days is like 1 or 2 days to you.
I'd also suggest you strongly listen to what KML is telling you. You are getting the female side from someone who has lived it and thinks she was much like you when she was your age. I think she is spot on.
This is your time to shine and not make the same moves you've made over the last couple years. Doing what feels wrong to you is likely what you need to do - it's just like DBing!!!!
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I can tell you as a guy it is a fine balance to pursue but also not seem needy. All the self help books you read tell the guy to wait several days before making a second date and don't over pursue the ladies by blowing up their phone and getting to know them that way.
If you want someone, tell them. Games are for kids, no?
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
If you want someone, tell them. Games are for kids, no?
I agree with this 100%.
To those that say 'everyone plays games' I would point out that many people don't, and many people find it extremely distasteful. In some ways you get to decide if you want to play games and attract a game player, or not play games and attract someone that appreciates the sincerity. I wouldn't do well with anyone trying to modify their normal behavior to create a pursuit dynamic. People that think that way wouldn't be a good fit.
I guess I'm not particularly impressed with peacocking or tingly feelings. I look at relationships as climbing a mountain. When you climb a mountain you are going to have your life in their hands and visa versa. It's going to be a serious expedition. Are you going to choose your partner based on how skinny or tall they are? Whether they have a teasing manner that allows you to simulate overcoming rejecting to mitigate some self esteem issues? Or are you going to partner with someone that knows how testing it will be to scale a mountain and who you can depend on with your life?
Don, I appreciate your thoughts. Personally I'm not sure about the 'if you keep doing the same thing you'll get the same results'. That's a nice phrase that is often applicable, but it doesn't apply to every situation. In sales if I fail to close a few deals in a row that doesn't mean I change my entire process and start playing games with customers. It means that it's a numbers game and even a solid approach will only lead to a 20-40% closing rate. With dating I don't think there's a way to guarantee a lifelong partnership on a first date, so just because she's met a few people that don't appreciate her doesn't mean she's going about things totally wrong. And I don't think of DBing as game playing at all, 180s are for us to be better people, LTR is all about detaching for ourselves, and stopping the damage we are causing to ourselves. GAL is for us. Sure, there is an awareness of interpersonal dynamics, but I don't think of that as game playing. To me games are more manipulative and insincere. DBing is about becoming a better person and then sincerely being different.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
you should have told him he was going to need to beg for a second date
There is nothing more unattractive than having to beg.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
you should have told him he was going to need to beg for a second date
There is nothing more unattractive than having to beg.
Oh good, Jeep's back. Literal much? Because yes, KML and I were suggesting that Ginger demand he get down on his hands and knees, kiss her feet and beg for the opportunity to be in her presence again. That, of course, would be unattractive. Said correctly, it would be fun and flirty and appealing... very likely build attraction.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I don't think it's playing games to just cool your jets a little and avoid coming off as needy or pushy. Remember, I'm BAD at playing games - but once I was genuinely too busy, or if I'm not actually that interested, it's AMAZING how that usually INCREASES interest on the part of my date.
And one good way NOT to come off as too needy for a woman is to take things a little bit slow. (I don't always follow my own advice on that but I'm tough enough to take the consequences when it doesn't turn out lol. And I don't expect that to be a good approach if I'm hoping for a long term relationship with someone rather than just a fun time.)
you should have told him he was going to need to beg for a second date
There is nothing more unattractive than having to beg.
Oh good, Jeeps back. Literal much? Because yes, KML and I were suggesting that Ginger demand he get down on his hands and knees, kiss her feet and beg for the opportunity to be in her presence again. That, of course, would be unattractive. Said correctly, it would be fun and flirty and appealing. very likely build attraction.
Quite possible. And yes, Im back for now. I wanted to pop in and tell doodler about the impending next step in mine and HQs relationship marriage .
Now back to chasing, if its seductive and admitted to be a joke, then yeah its all good and fun. However, women who make men chase them for their attention are the masters of the game players and quite frankly, attention hos to put it mildly.
In all fun, yeah as part of their norm, no and I say no because no one should have to fight attention.
Please refrain from using special characters in your postings. The system is having some issues and special characters tend to trigger disappearing postings. You can read more about this glitch at the top of the forum and Cadet has a nice thread link within my thread advising posters of the glitch.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I have been busy all day trying to explain to a husband that his wife is dying and he is being selfish and torturing her by not letting her go (not in that way, I assure you) often in my job, I am psychologist, mediator, truth breaker, and it gets emotionally exhausting. I am also probably the most qualified one ot have this discussion as a former ICU and Hospice nurse. These people are physiatrists and rehab specialists where people get better. I then went and burned some of my stress off at the gym.
Anyways.... I have been taking in the wonderful discussion my dating life seems to be sparking. I have to say I agree with both sides. I don't like the game, I like be straight forward, I like making my needs and wants clear, but I also understand the pursuer/distancer dynamic. I try to make the right balance.
However, in between work and the gym, my cousin texted me telling me she heard from him. He said some nice things about me, that he does want to see me again, but said he is not ready for a full on relationship and wants something nice and easy. He is open to it in the future, but to take things very slowly. I am not supposed to know he said this, and she encouraged him to be honest with me directly.
So that got me thinking about what he said and what you guys said. I distinctly retraced all interactions to see if I even gave a small hint of wanting something big right away, or seeming needy or desperate. Not a One! I have not been doing anything wrong, there is nothing I would change, that's why I don't change anything. Even though I keep getting the same results, I really don't think it is me.
I was flirty and fun, and I follow the lead of my date. I read their cues. Men do send mixed signals, I'll tell you that much. I gave nothing to indicate that I am looking for anything fast.
I do think this really does have to do with him and not anything I did. he just got out of a marriage. This was actually something I was concerned about going on this date (my gut is always right, I am very intuitive)
I have to decide how I am going to proceed. The truth is, I am looking for slow, fun and easy. Someone to go out with, share interests with and have fun with. Who I happen to be attracted to. But eventually I do want it to become a partnership. If there is no end game and he is like "no R at all" then there is no point of me going on. But he is open to it.
What does full blown R mean anyways that he is fearing? A demanding woman who wants all his time? because that isn't me. I have a job, I am raising a daughter by myself and I have friends. DO I like common courtesy's that my friends and I even have with eachtoher? Yes. My friends and I stay in touch, ask how we are doing, make plans, sometimes last minute, sometimes planned. DO I want to be someone's last minute time filler? No.
It is what I want, and who I am. I have pretzeled myself only to what a person is willing to give me and I don't think that's fair. But I am not pushing for anything, and I don't think I gave off any vibe that I was. Him moreso than I if any.
Maybe having feelings scared him. I dunno. But I really couldn't change much about how I interact with guys that wouldn't be true to myself. I think maybe I just haven't met my match on that page.
See, I AM a woman who knows her worth and isn't confused. I know what I want for myself, I know I don't need to get there fast. I know I really enjoy just dating. But when guys come off all worried and warning about relationships, that is kind of a turn off for ME.
So, my plan. Go on tomorrow's night date. Be cool, see how the conversation goes. If we decide to just date, then so be it. If I find my needs aren't being fulfilled, I will end it myself. I will go to Mexico, have a good time with friends, and not contact him.
I just realize I don't really don't need to change the core of who I am. It just might be harder to be find someone who is comfortable with me being comfortable knowing what I want and being comfortable with where I am at in life.
And that will most likely be the person for me. No matter how long it takes for him to find me.
That dynamic is so true kml. I mentioned that in my post as well. When im detached or too busy, suddenly i get increased interest.
This is annoying and something i really dont like about men. They like to say they dont play games but i think its an inherent quality in the majority of them.
There was a kind of recent post in oranges thread in which a bunch of guys talked about how they never pursued the nicer girl that liked them. Instead they thought she was pathetic amd went for the girl that used them to get herself secretly pregnant. Amd cheated as well!
As you know, I've recently started dating Caterpillar Mustache Man. He's not quite my usual physical type. (Last 3 - no, 4 men have been 6'3" to 6'6", broad shouldered athletic builds and handsome. CMM is slender and wiry like a runner, not as handsome although nice enough, and looks older even though he's still younger than me).
However CMM seems like a genuinely nice and sincere guy and I am enjoying his company and seeing where this goes. Tonight he told me he wanted me to "be his girl".
Flashback: third boyfriend back, I was dating Mr. Big Lots and a few dates in, I was so enthralled with how sexy he was I blurted out pretty much the same thing, that I wanted him to be my man. This was before I understood that he was a total Love Avoidant. But when I heard those words from CMM in pretty much the same situation I felt probably the same way Mr Big Lots did. It felt like pressure, mostly because he's just more willing to jump in with both feet than I am.
So, in regards to this guy you're seeing Ginger: give him some time and space. He IS at a different stage than you and it may take a while for him to get comfortable. And, I suspect you're right, to see you're not crazy or high maintenance.
Remember too that he got badly used in his marriage and will be a little gunshy.
I feel so exhausted today. I have really been thinking and I just feel down. One date and this guy is already pulling the distancing "I don't want a real R" thing right away. I do not need someone doing the pull back game after ONE DATE. H never even told me a time and place yesterday and I know he could have easily, as he was texting with my cousin. Around 10pm, I simply said " hey there. When you know when and where, just let me know!" and nothing.
I am tired. My friend made a good point. The beginning is supposed to be fun, you should be excited to see eachother, you shouldn't even be thinking about how you don't want a relationship and just go with the flow. HE was the one who said on the date that he wished we could have gone out Friday so we could have seen eachother Saturday too. Now this?
Honestly, all I date is love avoidant men, scared, playing games, pulling back, when quite honestly, I don't put pressure on. I am tired of knowing men are scared to have something with me eventually IN THE FUTURE.
I feel as if I lost the excitement of going into tonight. I am so tired of following everyone else's lead. One date, and I just wanted to be excited for the second and be myself, now I feel like I have to watch everything I do.
We will see. But I don't have much hope. I think this will not be good for ME. to worry about another commitmentphobe and if I am doing something wrong.
I just want to have fun, and I just want to be me.
You mentioned in your earlier post that if you don't get what you're looking for, then you'll just end it yourself... So let me ask you, what are you going to end?
There is nothing to end, you have just met, barely talked (actually seems more info being passed on by friend than between you two, which by the way I would recommend stopping that), and have plans to hang out. Ginger, one of the best things that happened to me was deciding to stay friends with GG after being friend zoned. Our dynamic has completely changed, all the stress and thoughts about doing the right thing went away and now we just have fun. It has put less pressure on me to find someone to fill that void, and I enjoy having her in my life even though we aren't romantic.
You're not going to get what you want from him right now, he's not going to call you every night or text you every morning, he's not going to ask how your day was every day, and although you say you're busy and not looking for that, I think you are.
So don't tell him you are ending anything, just end your expectations and enjoy it for what it is. If nothing else, he will fill a void in your life that will take some pressure of the next guy you date.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
The thing is, I don't want anything from him right now aside from dating and seeing it where it goes. But he is already putting out there he doesn't want anything.
I don't need a phone call every night,am I a woman who like so to know someone is thinking of them even if it is a towword text. Yup. Not a deal breaker though. It's the deliberate pull back that I am so intuitive to (because I am a highly intuitive person).
When I say I'll stop seeing him, it means if it feels bad and not good, I will end it. Because the beginning of dating should feel good. Something to look forward to.
I'm not telling him anything, just going to go out tonight and hopefully have some fun.
And you are right, my cousin doesn't need to go in between us anymore. It's not helping.
Again, Ginger - you're way overthinking this, you're just at the second date stage.
At this point, you shouldn't be worrying about whether HE will want a relationship, you should still be in the mindset of "I'm going to learn more about this person and see whether I think HE is worthy of a relationship with ME".
For all you know your cousin may have been telling him how excited you were about him and that might be scaring him. Or he might not quite be over his ex. Or he might just be freaking busy. Wait and find out without jumping to so many negative conclusions.
As for the texting business - sure, when I was in a relationship with crazy exBF I liked that he texted me every morning and night. But now it kept kinda creeps me out if a new date wants to text me like a boyfriend when we've just met. You should be suspicious too of any guy who would come on that strong after a first date. This guy sounds fine so far, just wait and see what happens. You're creating a self fulfilling prophecy by being so anxious.
Once again, a lot of great thoughts here. Very good Cocunut! You seem to be picking up what many of us here have over the months and years.
I have this so clear in my head (whether I'm right or wrong) but hopefully I can get it down on "paper" here. To start Ginger, I very much agree that this is a lot about HIM. That is something I always believe and tell people. When things happen it's always so much about what is going on with them rather than the other person. Still, what we do can influence others. That's kinda of at the heart of DBing - we can't change the other person but if we change how we react or what we do, that may produce changes.
Hot Chocolate may well not be ready for a big R. I know I would not be in his spot. Thing is, we've all heard stories or experienced when people say "I'm not looking for an R or don't want anything serious" and then 6 months later they are engaged to someone else. They often claim, "it just happened and we fell in love." So who knows what's going on with him and it may well may not have much if anything to do with you.
That said, I know you think you are not giving off any signs but you are. I'm positive you are, you just don't know it. Just like you say you are very intuitive - so are others. Many guys, including this one here (ME) can sense it - or at least we think we sense it.
Something like 85% of communication is non-verble. So it's not only what you say, it's what you do, how you act, how you respond. Then it's what others say. I have no doubt your cousin knows you very well, sort of like some of us here, and she/we have heard you speak about how much you want someone in your life. He could get that vibe from her - or she could have came out and point blank said it.
Then, I'm not sure if you even notice it but you contradict yourself very often. You say you don't care, but you really do. You say you are not looking for someone to text you in the morning but say how much you want, enjoy and need that. You just wrong this:
Originally Posted By: Ginger1
The thing is, I don't want anything from him right now aside from dating and seeing it where it goes. But he is already putting out there he doesn't want anything.
Read what you wrote: You don't want "anything" and he's putting out he doesn't want "anything" --- so you both don't want the same "anything" - right? So what's the problem then? It would appear you both want the same thing - but that's not true - YOU WANT MORE. and guys are sensing it. They just are. We all see it here, you admit it. You can't hide it even if you think you can. If you really didn't want "anything" you'd be thrilled that he doesn't either!!!
I'm dealing with that right now with Wild Girl - or at least think I might be. She SAYS, when she speaks, she's all casual and "maybe we'll go out again sometime" and all that stuff. Yet other things slip out, like her D17 coming home while she and I were on the phone and says "hi Don," as she walks by her mom on the phone. Now D17 and her grandparents have known me or at least who I am for several years but I've not talked much on the phone with Wild Girl for her D17 to just assume it's me. She assumes it because of what her mom (WG) is doing, saying, etc., when I'm not around. I offhandedly mentioned the 5 Love Languages and if she had ever heard of it. She had not. I pretty much left it there and what does she send me but the results of her 5 LL quiz showing Words of Affirmation followed by Quality Time. I had mentioned I still do a weekly radio show. She mentions using my "radio voice" and I come to find out she searched out and found the show archives on-line and took a listen. These things speaks to me. It tells me she's more interested than she's trying to play cool about. If she wasn't, she would not do these things and many others that I could list. Her words to me say "lots of guys out there, I don't think I'll ever find love, I'm really busy, but I had fun hanging out with you," (doesn't even want to call it dates) but her actions say "I think I really like this guy and wow, could this really go somewhere." At least that's my perception - and "perception is reality," as many have said.
You on one hand say, it's all casual, I am too busy, blah, blah, blah, but in the next breath say how you will have to end it with a guy you've only had one date with. That right there speaks to how you view it in your head. You are already in an entry-level R with him in your head - that's what you would end - this one sided budding R in your head. If not, what is there to end, as Coconut pointed out.
I'm not trying to beat you up here or force you to defend, just get you to be open to the possibility your true wants, needs and feelings are showing through. In the end, I agree with you that you do need to find someone that wants what you want and will give you what you are looking for. You should not have to pretend to be someone else. But any guy that will be this much in after one date is going to be bad news. That's what you got from FF. He went all in with you from nearly day one - and accelerated through what could have been a year's worth of dating in three months. That's what happened with that last longer term R with the longer distance guy. I am just so fearful that, yes, you can find a guy who goes 0-60 with you in the first week but will he be a truly solid great guy? Solid, quality Rs take time to build.
I'm no expert here. None of us are - or at least most of us (some are pretty good though). So I can't really guide you properly. I just can't help but think that when you really get to the point where you say, "I really don't care, I'm just truly going on a date," and really walk that talk, that's when it will happen for you. It's no different than those who try to detach but the spouse knows they really have not. Finally they get to the point where they really do drop the rope - and that's when the spouse sees the pressure is gone and the dynamic changes.
This is all so much easier said than done. I know this. But I so strongly feel and think it. Just like you are getting a feeling about this guy pulling away - he's getting a feeling about you wanting more.
I want so badly for you to find the love and piece in your life - that level of comfort you are craving. I know it will happen too. It just may not be here just yet. Hopefully you'll be able to give this guy the time and space he needs. And that's not a lot at this point. That doesn't mean you don't see him. It's not an all or nothing - or does not have to be. It just can't be forced and one great date, I've found my man. Just go out and have fun. Drop everything else. Let him do whatever he's going to do. It's not YOU - it's HIM. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Just let whatever is going to happen, happen.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Last edited by job; 06/28/1808:36 AM. Reason: added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
