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Re: We are moving forward on this journey together [Re: joejoe1] #2794601
06/07/18 05:49 AM
06/07/18 05:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,336
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Steve85 Offline
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Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Bluesun,

What do you mean by 6 years between BD? Are you and your husband recon?


I think she means he dropped a bomb, they rode it out, and 6 year later BD#2.


M(49), W(50)
D(15)
M-19, T-21
Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017

No God, no peace. Know God, know peace.
Re: We are moving forward on this journey together [Re: joejoe1] #2798248
06/27/18 11:12 AM
06/27/18 11:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 769
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BluWave Offline
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Quote:
BLU,

I really appreciate the info.

It amazes me that thru all the damage beauty can be had. After my wife and I recon, I was happy, then after a few months, I stop wanting to be in the M. I couldn't get pass the betrayal. I start to feel like she didn't deserve me. But she stuck by me thru all my pain. The other honesty, I was a truly sh!tty husband and father and I have to live with that as well. I treated her like deal and I sometimes wonder why she decided to come back to me after I treated her so bad and ahe wonder as well.

I also know now that I truly love her, before last summer I wonder if I did.

BLU, I'm glad you have stayed around. The recon thread is dead.

Can you answer, why you think my W stayed?

Did your husband and you go to any Marraige retreats, if so did they help?


joejoe, I think it is fairly normal to feel a tremendous amount of relief when they come back. The pain of being abandoned ends. After all, that has been our entire focus after BD, right? All we focus on (as do most of the posters) is if and when they will come back. As things settle down and we realize they are not going anywhere per se, we begin to feel more safe to allow our own emotional process to unfold more naturally. Of course there is going to be anger, resentment, frustration, a deep sadness, and fear. Ultimately, what we learn here (and in other M programs) is that over time the M becomes a more logistical choice and cannot be guided by any of the above feelings, ie the relief of them back vs the anger of the initial assault.

You have already identified that you were not the best H and father and that you played a part in her leaving. That is excellent! None of your mistakes can excuse what she did, however you know that there were two partners in this sitch. She was unhappy for several reasons. You could not control her leaving, just as you could not control her coming back, but you can clean up your side of the street. The best thing you can do for your M, your kids, but mostly yourself, is to learn from your mistakes. Look inside yourself. Be the best man you can be. Let this be your sliver lining in this very difficult time of life. When things feel hopeless, this is how I try and think about it. I am a better person because of the pain that I worked through. What doesn't kill me, will make me stronger. But I have to put in the hard work too.

Why do I think your W stayed? I have no idea! Honestly, I do not know her or you. Can you look inside yourself? Without over thinking it, why do you think she stayed? I had a gut feeling all along that my H would come to regret his decision and come back. I happened to be right. I think others here also happen to be right, and also some happen to be wrong. I don't know. People are complicated animals!

We did go to M programs. We went to M therapy weekly for almost a year. We also did Retrouvaille. It is hard for me to say how much they helped because had I been in the same sitch without them, my guess is our outcome would be the same. My thoughts are that anything that facilitates positive communication and supports the M, is a good thing! It certainly didn't hurt. For me, the biggest healer has quite simply been time. He has been back 3 years. I still have work to do. I happen to think that the more I look at myself and can be willing to be a better person (woman, mom, wife, friend, etc), the better off I'll be in all aspects of my life.

We can only clean up our side of the street! DB teaches us that. That is a very valuable life lesson that we all need!

Blu


“The more decisions that you are forced to make alone, the more you are aware of your freedom to choose.” — Thornton Wilder
Re: We are moving forward on this journey together [Re: BluWave] #2798483
06/28/18 07:28 AM
06/28/18 07:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 853
San Antonio, Texas
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joejoe1 Offline OP
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BLU,

Thanks for the awesome advice. I pray my feelings of having a missing feeling goes away.

DB is such an adventure and once our S come back we are stuck in should I or do I trust this person.

You have given me a bunch to chew on and come back to read. I have 4 boys to raise as well and they have become a higher priority in my life through all of this.

Seeing your strength in your Sitch gives me alot of hope.


M:34 W:34
T:8 M:7
S13, S10, S7, S1
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Re: We are moving forward on this journey together [Re: joejoe1] #2798703
06/29/18 08:24 AM
06/29/18 08:24 AM
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Posts: 769
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Sure thing :-) My perspective has changed with each passing year. That feeling that something is missing or off, does fade with time. A lot of this process just requires time and that part we have no control over. It makes sense that we have these guarded feelings; someone hurt us and we are naturally protecting ourselves. Some of that might even be subconscious, because in nature we (and all animals) have to constantly adapt to survive. I think it is a mild (or maybe severe) form of trauma and PTSD. Just seeing XOW a few weeks ago out of the corner of my eye, made my stomach churn before even processing the sitch and that she is no threat! ... Naturally over time, as the trauma/assault does not repeat itself, the feelings and triggers fade and eventually die. The feelings that something is wrong or missing is much less with each passing year.

There is also a grief process that in some ways has been like a death. The death of the M as we knew it before. It can be confusing because while the person is standing in front of us, the R we had with them is now changed. Personally, I have had SOOOO much sadness that my R with H was lost. the first 10-15 years together we had a strong romance, intimacy and attraction. It felt awesome. I was totally blindsided when BD happened. During the time we were separated, I wasn't able to fully detach and let go so I didn't grieve the end of the R. I have had to grieve while piecing something new with him. That has been very confusing at times. ... I would say go easy on yourself, and allow the sadness in. Take as much time as you need to process that part.

You mentioned that you have four boys. Have you thought about how much your own actions and choices will influence their future? What advice would you give them when they are grown men and come to you with these same dilemmas? What kind of men, husbands and fathers, do you hope they will be? Can you let the answers to these questions guide you? I think when we have so much emotions (triggers, trauma, etc) influencing our thoughts, it can be hard to make the decisions that we really want to make. My biggest goal has been the separation of emotions and choices.

My sitch, and this site, have really helped me try to separate these two things. It has taken me years to get to this place. If I feel hurt and triggered, and I think about the past, and my H simultaneously does something I don't like, my response can be more emotionally driven. There has been many times in the last 3 years that I have considered (and once even tried) leaving the M behind me. However, when I deal with the emotions separately, and allow decisions about my H and my M to be more based on the present and more logical, I respond in a way that I can feel better about. I then make better choices for me and for my Ds. This has been a skill set that has benefited me in other parts of my life. My goal is to master it because I recognize now how much of my life has been guided by my feelings and emotions!

I also wanted to add, that we often hear conflicting advice on if we should stay married because of the kids. We have all heard "we will stay married until the kids are adults because that is what is best for them." (in fact XOW said that years before her A with my H). And we also hear, "it's not good for the kids to stay M just for them, especially if you don't model a healthy R." I personally don't see this as so black and white. I actually agree with both. If both people are willing to stay in the M, really work on it, and model a healthy R, then I agree that is best for the kids overall. If they stay together, yet full of bitterness and resentment, that can be detrimental for kids.

What I have come to appreciate about my H (and I need to give myself some credit too) is that we are willing to work this out, even when at times we don't feel it. This has been a choice we have both made for our R and because we believe it is best for our kids. It's not one reason or the other, it is both. So we both have to commit to doing what it takes to make the adjustments. I am not sure we would be making these positive changes had the last 4 years not happened. So I consider that a silver lining. And maybe as time continues on, my idea of what it means to love someone will change too? I think this might be a more meaningful type of love than what we shared before; choosing someone when life is hard and still wanting change for them. I'll let you know when I figure it out ;-)

It sounds like your W is committed to making this work too. I would encourage you to hang in there through the hard moments, give it time, and keep challenging yourself to make the small changes you need to. Change for you, for your sons, and for the M. If time goes by, and you see her doing the same, then down the road you may be in an even better place.

Keep posting! People do read and it helps to process with others! This post helped me today too.

Blu


“The more decisions that you are forced to make alone, the more you are aware of your freedom to choose.” — Thornton Wilder
Re: We are moving forward on this journey together [Re: BluWave] #2798907
07/01/18 03:00 PM
07/01/18 03:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 853
San Antonio, Texas
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joejoe1 Offline OP
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BLU,

She is very committed. It's someone unbelievable sometimes. This month and week mark a year since BD.

I also now know I will be alright without my W and I can take care of my boys without her. Its an amazing and saddening feeling at the same time.

Did you see pictures of messages that took you a long time to.het over? If so What Did you do to forget them or move on from them?

Did you and your husband walk on eggshells around each at the beginning of piecing and recon? My W and I didn't want to make to big of mistakes so we were kind of very careful with each other, that seems to be leveling off now.

Thanks BLU!!!


M:34 W:34
T:8 M:7
S13, S10, S7, S1
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Re: We are moving forward on this journey together [Re: joejoe1] #2800484
07/10/18 06:14 AM
07/10/18 06:14 AM
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Hi Joejoe,

How are things?

So it has been one year? Think of how much has changed in just one year. Things really do change, even when it feels like time is standing still or we feel stuck. Just remember, with each passing year, more will continue to change and unfold. We do not see a lot of stories about piecing or what happens years after BD, but often the LBS can be the one to change their mind. I have certainly had my doubts over the years, even with my H being committed to the M.

I think you are on target with your thinking. You know you will be okay without her and you don't need her. That is key, because you are breaking the codependency. The idea for a healthy marriage is not that we need each other, but that we both want to be together. I think all of us can be okay without our S, but we have to know it. It is amazing and liberating. It is also sad, as you say, and I think the sadness comes from looking at our partner with a different lens. They are no longer innocent and we now know they are capable of dishonesty and destruction. This is where time and patience come in. I have to often remind myself to judge my H based on his actions today and not only the past.

Pictures and messages. I am not sure what you have seen, but I am sorry :-( It is most def insult to injury to have seen evidence of the A. As if the imagination isn't painful enough, you also have some proof that you cannot forget. I was fortunate that the "evidence" that I found/saw was not too troubling and was mostly from her. I often suspecting that she was the one pursuing him and trying hard. His issue was more being spineless and allowing it, however the passivity is just as wrong or even worse IMO.

I once found proof that their s-x life was not working so well, so admittedly, I appreciated that. And, that has never been an issue for us. I found a little note that she left in his backpack and that set my mood off for a bit. In thinking about it now, it read like a HS girl fishing for attention. When he came back, he gave me all passwords so I went through and read every email between them. This did hurt and maybe I should not have. In another way, it actually helped because it reinforced my belief that their R was very lopsided. Most of the messages were her flirting, inviting him places, wanting to get together, bring our kids together, and even live together. He didn't reply much and I could see the ambivalence and avoidance from his end.

I do also have a lot of memories of our friendship when their EA got started and I didn't know, but my gut told me something was off. There are many painful memories of watching their interactions and feeling like something was going on. I would call him out, and he would deny, deny, deny. We would argue and the wedge between us widened. This viscous circle went on for many months before I learned about the A. It has been painful for me to accept that he could torture me so many times like this. And we have talked about it quite a bit.

In a nut shell, my perspective is that there were a hundred lies and betrayals. And each one felt like a thousand daggers. My H sees it in another way, and while I was resistant to accepting this position for many years, I have come to understand it better now. In his view, everything was lumped together and it was one giant lie and betrayal, each connected and all intertwined. He could not have had one without the other. Does that make sense? ... Can you think about each painful memory with your W and understand that they are all somehow attached to one difficult time period? Not just difficult for you, but for her as well?

Another thing I want to say is that an A is not as fun and glamorous as the LBS may think, or not according to my H anyhow. For him there was a constant feeling of shame, guilt and self-doubt. He knew it was wrong and wouldn't work, but he felt stuck. It wasn't so much about her and who she is, but more about him trying to run from his life. Can you try and see it that way? Was your W running from her life? What was she running from?

I'll be honest, my H did and still does walk on eggshells with me. I didn't and haven't. I was pretty darn piszed off and have been for years. If anything, I am getting better at and working on toning that back. I am not an easy person to live with or be M to. I have work to do too, even if I am not the one that had the A and left the M. ... I think it's okay to walk on eggshells for a bit. The painful feelings will come up and the triggers are intense. Go easy on each other. If you both want to be in the M and if you are both willing to make positive changes, then that is enough.

My only real advice I have is more patience and more time.

Keep posting. I think it also helps readers pull out of the mind set of just wanting their S back when they see what this process entails.

Blu


“The more decisions that you are forced to make alone, the more you are aware of your freedom to choose.” — Thornton Wilder
Re: We are moving forward on this journey together [Re: joejoe1] #2801798
07/17/18 05:59 PM
07/17/18 05:59 PM
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I knew something was going on with him (depression/replay) for about 2 years before he BD me in summer 2012,and fled. He was back one month later but had constant daily contact while gone; messages throughout the day. He is a clinging boomerang. Once he came home he went through major withdrawal and depression. He locked himself in the shed for months. We were on suicide watch. From BD until he was back in the house and in our bed was about 6 months. He was nearly himself but you could see a glimmer of something stirring underneath. His replay behavior came to a halt pretty well. He remained in this limbo state for about 5 years. Trying to figure out what to do with his life on a financial angle. I have health issues which also impact his emotional/financial security. He never left again, physically or emotionally....until financial insecurities reared again. I was hopeful the crisis was finally over...but it wasn't.

We have a business together and we tried a new idea in hopes it would be prosperous and would alleviate our financial dilemma, but it didn't. It hit his ego hard and he began pulling away. Major replay began even worse than the last time. He could feel it coming on because he said to me about a month before he snapped that he thought the UFO was coming back to take him, within a month the withdrawal escaladed until the point came that I literally saw the light leave his eyes and he said to me...are you ready for round two? The monster was back. He began selling anything not tied down, doing whatever he wanted with no recourse or concern. within 6 weeks of the snap, he was gone. contact was regular but not always daily but was for the most part. Before he left he told me not to make any decisions until he was back home. He said he was going away for 3-6 weeks and wants to fix everything when he gets back, that everything will be good once he is back home. He told me to make a MC appointment for when he gets back, which I did and rescheduled 3 times until he returned. (yes there is an alienator and yes I have been aware of everything)

He did come home after 6 weeks. When he came home we went to the MC, which he was very concerned about, he insisted to cancel it because he feared if we went for sure I would leave him, he even told our D20 that day prior to the appointment that for sure it was over, I was going to leave him if we went. He seemed very devastated by this idea. Everything went , ok. we didn't go back as he started cycling back into flee mode. Within 6 weeks he was gone again, he hinted at me saying he was going to be leaving for a couple weeks sometime this summer, that was the day he left. He came up to me and hugged me and said he was running to the dump/waste site, hours later when he didn't return I knew he had fled again. 3 weeks later he returned home. From DB/snap until now has been about 6 months.

He has been home now for almost a month. Trying hard to fix up the house and yard etc. Im not entirely confident he will stay, I hope of course but am scared every day he wont. He doesn't stay in the house, he stays in a small guest cabin we have. He keeps the door locked and says that is the only privacy he has. Every day he seems to be more and more involved with us, but is distant, depressed and guilt ridden. He has always been close with me and even through the worst of the crisis he shut out everyone else, but not me. That's why I think he is a clinging boomerang.

I am hoping we are in a stage of reconnect, I feel extremely anxious and wanting him to just hold me and tell me he loves me and everything with be ok. He does hug me and treat me kindly, with compliments and appreciation. But it is still distant, not kissing or intimacy like that.

In a way it would be easier if he wasn't so kind and connecting, it is hard to detach. I try and the second I do he recognizes it and questions me. People say you wont be of interest to the MLS but to be honest a clinger is different. He notices everything.

The first time he replayed the monster was present for about 2 months, and he was violent and angry/entitled. Between charmer and violent. This time monster was there but you could see the fear more clearly, it wasn't so angry it was obvious the fear. It was the same but different.

Gawd I miss my sweetheart. He is there but he is still out of my reach slightly. Im very lonely, and all I really want is him.I hope this is reconnecting, and I pray he will not leave again.
Love and Hope to everyone struggling with this.

Last edited by job; 08/01/18 11:54 AM. Reason: added spaces between paragraphs
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