Separated - Patience & DB or Divorce?

[SteveLW]

Im going to post and read and try my best. Its so freaking hard knowing Im going to pay a lot of money for her to live separate. And we are actually get along but I cant push or pursue. I can always make more money I love coaching kids which is what I do. I just have to accept the unknown. Appreciate the insight from all you more experienced DBers. I hope I get there one day. Im going to try. Im not going to file or do mediation unless she pushes it. I still love this woman but I want her to come to me... with passion.

I am on record as saying that this is a mistake. I know AS disagrees with me on this, but here is the deal. You had her right where you wanted her. She was not happy at her parents' house, but her only alternative to was to return home.

You keep saying that you'd have to pay support after D anyway, but that is after she does A LOT OF WORK to get a D. Most WWs/WAWs aren't willing to do that work. Personally, I would sit her down and explain that when you made the agreement to pay her rent and $1000 above that you were in a very distraught state and didn't realize what you were agreeing to. That her choice is to stay at her parents or return home. That you will not pay for her to leave you.

She may know about support and hold that over your head as a threat for D. However, there is a lot of water to go under that bridge before you'd be paying support. I know I said I wouldn't mention this again but you are clearly conflicted on this point since you mentioned it that way in the quote above.

Ok, that's the last time I will comment on it, for real this time!

[Did]

Thanks Steve. Yes I am very conflicted on it. I thought that for a long time- I had her right where I wanted her. She wanted to sell the house and would have no other answer, she owns it with me. I told her I would do it - get her own place out of her parents. She is grateful. Im not going to take that back from her. Our 4 br house also sold and settlement is June 28. We are splitting the profits, 45k each. I am getting a new place 30 min away its a 2 br condo. Probably a lot of mistakes. But she is no where near wanting to live with me or be with me. So I cant force her or control her with money isnt that just manipulation? She has said all along I try to control her with money and keep her in her parents house. A therapist said she should go get a place herself with our money and if I didnt like it we could go to court. She hasnt done that and has been at her parents a year.

Does anyone have examples or know anyone on her who R after being physically separated out of the house. Almost feel like I should be on the still trying after Divorce page. Its basically like we arent together in anything but legally.

[AnotherStander]

I am on record as saying that this is a mistake. I know AS disagrees with me on this, but here is the deal. You had her right where you wanted her. She was not happy at her parents' house, but her only alternative to was to return home.

On having the talk? No I don't disagree with you, I think if someone is standing for their M they should absolutely not temperature check their W, they should never initiate R talks, and if their W initiates an R talk they should simply listen and validate. But, LBS's have this overwhelming need to "know" (I remember it all too well) and often that drives them to temperature check despite our telling them not to. A lot of LBS's think that maybe, just maybe the WAS has changed her mind and is just waiting for the LBS to say something. So they have this overwhelming desire to ask. It never goes like they hope it will though. My point was just that if you can't stand it and you have to ask even though you know you shouldn't, well then go ahead and ask. Just don't be surprised if you're back here the next day saying "you guys were right".

[AnotherStander]

Does anyone have examples or know anyone on her who R after being physically separated out of the house. Almost feel like I should be on the still trying after Divorce page. Its basically like we arent together in anything but legally.

Yes. I just related this story in another thread yesterday I think, but I have a good friend whose W left him and moved in with OM. They sold their house and business and split the proceeds and didn't speak for 2 years. Then she pinged him and that led to convos and dating and 3 years ago they moved back in together and have been crazy-happy ever since. They never did get officially D'd so they didn't have to get remarried.

I have another friend that remarried his ex after being apart for 10 years.

Both of these guys were 100% sure their marriages were over and done and their wives wanted nothing to do with them anymore. So when I hear people here say that, I try to tell them that that's what they think NOW and that's what their W thinks NOW, but no one knows what the future holds.

I was helping my ex fix a hose bibb on the side of her house last weekend and told her I was going inside to get some tools. While I was in there she started talking to a pastor neighbor of hers. I came back out and was messing with the hose bibb but could hear them, she didn't know I was back outside. He asked if I was her H and she said "well, ex-husband but he's the most amazing person." 5 years ago she couldn't stand to be around me, now she's telling strangers how great I am? So what is my point, it is that this situation all of you are in is temporary. You may reconcile, or you may divorce, but this is just a transition time for you. In one of my favorite shows (Vikings) Rolo goes to the Seer to ask if his life is over because he's lost everything including his wife. The Seer laughs and says "Oh Rolo, if you knew what the gods have in store for you, you would go down right now and dance naked on the beach!" We are so blinded by our pain after BD that we don't see the amazing life that still stretches out before us.

[Did]

Thanks Steve and AS. AS the post you made was spot on. And in some ways gives me home. But years to wait it seems so long, I want more kids. I know this is where I am now. And I havent seen Vikings, I dont watch much TV but maybe I should. I can relate to that comment for sure. Theres a dad who I coach his son that just started dating his W or ex W after 4 years. He said his biggest regret is that they didnt have another kid right away. The hard part for me is trusting her. If we arent going to D and Im paying for her life I am going to blow through my savings. I guess I just need to get the separation agreement signed with the 3 month window and hope she is working by late summer. But yea Im really torn on what to do weve been stuck in limbo for a year. Ive almost texted her about this a couple times but deleted the texts - no R talks!

She has talked about there not being any alimony by next year she will be making money and that this is temporary - me paying for her. That she would feel terrible collecting money from me if she is making good money. I said something about alimony only being after divorce and if she is so sure thats what she wants what are we waiting for (probably a mistake). She hasnt pushed for D at all since I told her I would help her get her own space. She felt like I was controlling her with money and keeping her stuck in her parents house.

I know she doesnt want to be with me right now or she would be. But we have also been getting along a lot better. Since I stopped pursuing and pushing my agenda- our MR / family. She has been thanking me, grateful, respectful - saying she wants to respect me when I call her out for coming over leaving dishes or mess after packing for example. She recognizes all my changes and thinks how admirable it is. She also mentioned us dating again in the future the other day which was a complete surprise. She has said her switch flipped and she was so hurt / damaged / etc it may take years for her to heal. I respect that because she tried really hard and literally gave me everything. And now she doesnt really have anything.

All that being said, she still is very secretive with her phone, wants her own place and does not want to be with me. She says the only thing that helps her is alone time. She is sensitive to people and calls herself an empath. She feels peoples energies and used to tell me what I was thinking and feeling sometimes before I even recognized it - years ago. So I do believe her that she wants alone time. She is not out having a lot of sex or using a ton of money. I dont know what shes thinking but shes not being a horrible crazy person. She has our daughter almost every night. She did leave me but deservedly so I kind of sucked as a husband. I was unable to forgive myself for my mistakes until recently but I didnt know any better. I never learned emotional intelligence, how to be a good husband, dad and wasnt self aware. I made money played sports and generally tried my best, I didnt cheat yell or physically abuse her but lied and had to work on my mental health and grow as a person. Im working on it and the post from AS gives me a lot of hope.

Im a deeper person since the separation at least... so I have had my birth chart done, I talked to a psychic and I see an intuitive energy person as a mentor. I have been told by all 3 of these separate people that Im going to have at least two major relationships or that there is a great love, the love of my life in the future- if I can get there. I am supposed to be a leader and life coach. So I am trying to clear myself and better myself in hopes of getting to this great future. Then there is the fact that I am still clinging on to hope with my W. Struggling with detaching. I love her Im attracted to her shes the mother of my daughter and I have been sure I want to have more kids with her. Family is very important to me and not having D3 in my house daily hurts a lot.

Anyway thanks all for being there. Appreciate this group a lot.

[Did]

I think I should move forward rather than clinging on to the marriage. I dont know the best way to do this. I feel a sense of negativity and dread of going back to W. She would have to make major changes in the way we interact for us to love each other again. I just dont see it happening. I have a meeting with L for us scheduled for 6/26. I will try my best to detach lovingly and see if she comes to me. But she only talks about life plans like schedules, housing money etc. She doesnt ever talk about relationship, emotion etc. So I will let it lie and if nothing changes plan on putting things in motion to dissolve our marriage at the meeting.

I will probably waiver on this and post here a lot... but thats what my intuition is telling me. I keep clinging on the marriage and idea of her. She is not the person I married. She left me and hasnt wanted to work on us. She wants money and support but what does she give me. I want someone excited to share the future with me. I want more children. I have a lot to offer and I have forgiven myself for my mistakes. I understand now that most of my mistakes were because she never heard me. I withdrew more and more because my needs and desires were not met and I stopped fighting for what I wanted because she would always reason her way to win an argument.

Thanks for the support.

[SteveLW]

Did, your focus is on what your W would have to do. But what about what YOU would have to do? In my experience, if one spouse makes positive changes usually the other one will follow suit. There are times when the other won't, but the old cliche of "if you want a better marriage be a better husband/wife" has a lot of truth to it.

The problem you are experiencing is a lack of patience. You see, you can't fix in weeks and months, what it took years for you to get into. Spouses do this all the time. They've been a lousy spouse (I am not accusing you here just making a point) for years, and then when they get a bomb dropped they think that a few weeks of good behavior should fix everything.

This is especially true of LBH with NGS. And you do seem to have a healthy case of NGS. So you make positive changes, expect your sitch to turnaround on your timetable, and pull the plug when it doesn't.

I know, I was where you were. But one thing kept coming back to me: if we did end up D I wanted to be able to look my daughter in the eyes, and with all honesty and sincerity tell her that I did everything within my power to save the MR. I wouldn't be able to live with myself IF I couldn't do that.

[Davide]

Amen to what Steve said.

Patience is the hardest part of this whole damn process. Remember your timeline is most likely not the same timeline as your wives. She has to complete her own journey.

I have no idea if my wife will ever be open to R. No clue, and there have been no signs. Regardless, I know that I have 9 months before she can divorce me, and I want to be the best, most fun, attractive, positive person that I can be in that time. If she chooses to walk away from that, its on her.

Trust the Process.

[ovrrnbw]

Did, I know you're going through a very hard time. But the stronger you go after EITHER choice, the better you will look and feel. Only you can decide what is best for you.

You didn't deserve to be left either, get that garbage out of your mind. Your WW would love you to think that. You think she is perfect? No, she's done a lot wrong too.

[Did]

I have been focused on what I can do and what I can control for months. Im still focused on it. I had IC today. Ive done therapy pretty consistently the last year. Yes Im not a very patient person. And I need to work on that. Im trying to trust life and not control everything.

I dont trust W and havent since first PA when I saw her phone. I think she is probably still lying "not to hurt me". When in reality its manipulative. I used to be really anxious about what she was doing. I still care but much less than I did in the past. There is no way to communicate through these issues at this point. We are moving to different homes thats a fact. Im paying for her place and we are meeting with L towards the end of the month. Ill probably talk about mediation then if nothing changes. Sometimes my daughter says we should live separate. Kids are really intuitive. The marriage is broken. Theres no trust. Theres no passion and nothing coming from her to me as far as emotion, communication, attraction, interest etc. I tried for months and the pursuit pushed her so far to anxiety and walled up etc. Ive stopped trying.

Im making changes and focusing on being the best father and man I can be. But she never said she wants to try to work on the relationship even when we started counseling 10 months ago she has never said she wants to work on the marriage. I just cant see her saying she wants to at all. She has said she thinks its amazing how great a dad Ive become or its admirable how much Im changing and growing. She sees my 180s. She talks about my looks but has said her attraction is about emotion as most women are.

I know I know dont believe what she says. But her actions show all she cares about is getting her own life (and seems entitled that I pay for it while she slowly figures it out- no real steps to start working) and our daughter. She has been obsessed about her since she was born. I love my daughter dont get me wrong and Im a great dad. But W is controlling, perfectionist babies her etc.

W hasnt worked in about 2 years. I may stipulate that she is going to work at least 20 hours a week or earn a minimum of $2000/mo in our separation agreement. I cant control her but she needs to get with reality. I want to be with someone who is excited to be with me. Excited for our future and not barely able to function in society. I took the blame for a lot of this and for a long time I thought everything was my fault. I had so much regret and helpless feeling that I had physical symptoms in my neck and back. She was/is damaged and fragile etc but Ive worked to forgive myself. I see a lot of it was me withdrawing because I was never heard in the marriage. Things like dating or sleeping in the same bedroom I said my piece I wanted a better relationship. I thought everyone should be equal in the family not daughter rule everything and no time or effort for marriage. We argued she reasoned her way to win the argument per usual and we fought. I backed down to keep the peace and the marriage died. It was her decisions to not sleep in the same bed and cosleep with daughter, not to make it a priority to date or do anything together since our daughter was born, to leave and affair down. Then come back and push to jump right back into the relationship and not heed my words of we need to take it slow. She has never listened to me and I believe it shows lack of respect. I know that if we were ever to be together I would need to be heard or it would never work.

Im trying to be true to myself. Im focused on me, my work on myself, career and daughter. No my 180s arent complete. But I am working on it consistently to be my best self. She has at least an emotional relationship with OM and probably physical and just lying to me. We dont talk about it she sends me text to prove shes with girlfriends as if it matters. I dont fight about it or ask what shes doing she just tells me Im going out with GF1 or GF2. Maybe she is telling the truth I trusted her completely and she very easily could be completely honest. But she hides her phone and I havent trusted her since seeing her phone when I first fount out about PA.

Im about to get her a place I know I can say no OM will be there while our daughter is there according to the L since I will be on the lease. What am I going to stop by and check if a guy is over there... thats not me.

Yes I relate a lot to NGS like all of it. I am learning a lot about myself. I dont deny that at all Im embracing it and recognizing things I need to work on.

David maybe its different where I live but she can divorce me anytime. She hasnt pushed it but probably only because Ive agreed to give her some money at this point and help her get out of her parents house. If we divorce there is a 90 day cool down period. I was thinking maybe give it 90 days then another 90 if we file...

OVR- I dont blame her for leaving honestly. I have told her that multiple times in the past. I wont say it again. Whatever the reason, I was depressed and like a dark cloud a lot of the time (her words). Maybe she could/should of done therapy with me, there were lots of other options for sure.

It would be such a radical change for her to be the person I love and want to be with. Its like a lot of people say Im in love with the idea of her. And who she was, not who she is. I cant imagine her as the loving wife I knew. She is cold and anxious can barely deal with life or conversating with me. Shes scared all the time around me. She never was good at second chances or forgiveness, could never kiss and make up. Never any make up sex. She seems all set and 100% focused on separate futures.

Either way Im just going to work on myself and try to detach further and further away. She asked what I want to do for daughters birthday today (Aug). Her parents got a place at the beach for two weeks. We used to always get our own place or stay with them and do daughters birthday at the beach. I guess Ill get an airbnb and go down for a day or two or something.

W birthday is 6/12. She got me a nice card and wrote a note on mine. Well she wrote an impersonal note then went and added to it while at our house just before giving me the card. Daughter and I got W a card today from her... not sure if I should get her one from me or just do nothing. Wish her happy birthday.

Thanks guys sorry for rambling here.