Separated - Patience & DB or Divorce?

[Did]

Previous thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2794150&page=11

Steve- You mentioned your wife would of given a 0% chance 4 months ago.. how are things going now? I looked at your posts but wasn't sure which one was yours.

My W birthday is June 12. I am thinking of asking her to talk around then... I have contacted a L and Therapist to just have someone to talk to and get some insight. Maybe I am just too impatient.

Talk- ask her: do you want to be married to me? Give me a reason to give this some more time... I expect her to say no and then go forward with mediation. I can say if she wants to work on our relationship whether we divorce or not she can come to me otherwise Its just done. I feel like Im holding on for no reason.

I've agreed to pay her rent and $1000 spending money as she was a stay at home mom and gave up her career. I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do. But I gave her my word and I will stand by it. It's a lot of money to just hand over with the alimony clock not even ticking.

[SteveLW]

Did,

Please do not start R discussions with your W. I can tell you that if you are looking for reassurances from her you aren't going to get them. Likely, if she is like most WASs, she will gladly tell you to do all the work for the D.

As for my sitch, I don't want to rehash it all here as you can read it on my thread, but we are into R and piecing right now. Things seem like they are in a good place, but I don't pick her brain about it, start MR discussions, nor temp check her. We are in MC, every other week, and continue to progress. I am seeing real consistent changes from her, things that were missing from prior to BD have now come back (hugs, sex, etc).

We aren't there yet and still have a lot of work to do. The key takeaway is that I saw little hope in Jan and Feb, before things started to turnaround in March.

[Did]

Thanks Steve whats your thread? Every morning [censored] but Im better once I get moving

[AnotherStander]

Talk- ask her: do you want to be married to me? Give me a reason to give this some more time... I expect her to say no and then go forward with mediation.

Well it's more than likely going to be "no" and as Steve said you shouldn't go there. BUT... sometimes the LBS just needs to hear "no" again to firm up in their mind that they really do need to detach and let go. So if you feel like you need to have that talk then go ahead, but go in expecting "no" to be the answer.

I can say if she wants to work on our relationship whether we divorce or not she can come to me otherwise Its just done. I feel like Im holding on for no reason.

Well that's part of the process- figuring out why you're holding on and whether it's worth it to you to continue doing so. You've been going through this for about a year, that's about the same time I started asking myself those questions as well. I think dropping the rope is finally just realizing that you're not going "back to normal" so it's time to move on, and if a recon opportunity comes up in the future then you'll decide what to do at that time.

[Zues126]

Talk- ask her: do you want to be married to me? Give me a reason to give this some more time... I expect her to say no and then go forward with mediation.

Well it's more than likely going to be "no" and as Steve said you shouldn't go there. BUT... sometimes the LBS just needs to hear "no" again to firm up in their mind that they really do need to detach and let go. So if you feel like you need to have that talk then go ahead, but go in expecting "no" to be the answer.

Don't start R talks or unless you want to experience the ultimate of jedi mind tricks. You won't know what hit you. You'll go in with the focus and grit of a bull fighter feeling prepared for anything. You'll come out defeated and wondering what happened to your plan.

Only in his wildest dreams would you be lucky enough to get a 'no'. In reality I have never seen these types of ultimatums amount to any clarity. Without exception the WAS just says something like "I'm still here, aren't I", and makes comments about how they're trying to get there but need time to deal with whatever they're going through.

If you want to file for divorce just do it. If you aren't ready to be out of her life forever then hold your horses a bit. But R talks are a great way to get everyone hurt, angry, confused, and more convinced their partner is an idiot and the marriage is doomed. I'd almost say R talks are an inhumanely painful way to execute what's left of your relationship. The divorce is like a firing squad. R talks are like being tied down and slowly eaten by ants.

[Did]

Thanks guys.

Steve I am reading your posts it seems youve come a long way... you were too compulsive for this stuff a while back. And Mach1 saying 48 hour rule before speaking. Man freaking patience huh? I need to do the same and really embrace this and be in for the long haul. Not listen to my mom saying I think you should get divorced. Its nice to find some one with a positive outcome so far... the thought of piecing, MR counseling, sex all seem so far out of reach. We havent been fighting and I guess were getting along better so thats a good step? I just dont want to be just friends with the woman I married and want to spend the rest of my life with and reach the dreams we had together. I need to work on detaching a lot. Going to finish reading your thread later.

Zeus thanks for your input. Im going to hold off on the R talk. I truly want us to get back together. I need to embrace DB harder. I keep slipping up as she sends me 7 pics today of D3 at amusement park with her and now is bringing food over for all of us to eat...I had oral surgery today and have stuff for her from meeting with lawyer.

Do I turn down these visits or just be the nice neighbor, happy but dont say much? She was offering to bring any food etc. I just said a visit with D3 would be nice.

She has so much work to do and so many changes to make if our R was to work.. I do also but Im at least aware of it and working on it. Maybe she is too but I just dont know. There used to be a lot more anger in her. Im just really lonely at times especially getting up each morning. And I know she blames me for just about everything.

She has said she cant work (start business) or work on herself at her parents... with her mom, autistic brother who her mom provides badly for and stepdad who talks badly about her real dad. I think she could it but it would be hard. I think its going to be harder than she thinks either way. I am going to give her a little time at the rental maybe 3 months and see if she makes progress and wants to work on us. This means Im paying I need to get her to start working asap. I cant afford to pay for our separate lives long term. This is where meeting with L comes in.

I am going to get us both in for a consultation with the L. Saw her this morning hoping W and I will get unbiased quality information and try to be on the same page. Instead of my friends and family saying divorce her and if you want to start fresh later you can and her friends saying youre a doormat you deserve this and that you were a good W.

Continue reading and doing 180s GAL until then. I am also moving and buying a new place in a town 30 min away. Should be a lot easier to do new GAL activities once there with many friends and work associates in the area. Tough being in our house in suburbs not much here.

No more mr nice guy has really hit home. Thanks again... the input and your own threads and experiences are so helpful

[SteveLW]

Did, yes in the beginning I was too emotional and spiraled a lot. But as you see DBing working it starts to become easier. The first few times I left the house to GAL activities I was a wreck. But as I did it more and more, she started being nicer when I got home. That gave me encouragement to keep it up. I got to where I was fine when I went out and not worried about what she was doing, and still loved coming home, something I dreaded prior to BD.

Also, the better I got at detaching, the more she started to come to me, and seek me out. I distinctly remember early on, going into the bedroom to do some reading. About a 1/2 hour went by and she came looking for me. This was about 6 weeks in. Prior to that she never would have done that, nor cared where I was or what I was doing.

The changes are small, subtle at first. You question whether or not you are even seeing or experiencing what you think you are.

The other big change was about 2 weeks in I stopped saying ILY. It took about 2 or 3 days before SHE initiated it. I then let her say it first, for a long time before I started to say it first again.

DBing is completely counter-intuitive. You feel like crap when you start doing it. But as you start to see exactly what DBing experts tell you will eventually happen, it starts to get a lot easier.

Where I am today I would NEVER have thought I'd be. If you had told me in Feb that by June we'd be where we are I would have scoffed. But as you point out, all of those things that you feel like you'll never see again slowly start to return and you realize this stuff really works.

One thing I am fond of saying is that every sitch is unique. What worked for me may or may not work for you. DBing is trial and error. Do what works, don't do what doesn't. That said, pressure and pursuit NEVER work. Neither does talking. You can't talk your way out of what you acted your way into. But find what works and stick to it.

[Did]

Pressure and pursuit I made that mistake x10. I have stopped. But my situation is different since we havent lived in the same home in months. I cant just go read in the room and she will notice. I do that all the time but Im alone. I go for days barely reaching out via text we never talk on the phone. Its so far gone already. I have to really read that detaching thread again. Ill do it tonight.

I never had an opportunity to go out and GAL and come home to W at home. She left after I was working 13 hour days last June. And I am about to be working my busiest time of year this June. She is getting her own place she told me she is grateful today. We get along fine and Im calm, cool and confident.

She has been telling me Im hot and her mom says I cant have girlfriends because Im too good looking. But she doesnt talk about anything emotional she never comes to me for physical touch or affection. I havent said ILY in months. We have said well always love each other how were great parents so there are all these positives but she has these walls up or just doesnt have the feelings. It seems almost impossible.

When I was spending time with her at her moms and just focusing on D3 and not W that is what worked. She said she wanted to hug me and touch me more. I still think she is pretty messed up. But being a great dad and almost completely ignoring her worked. Talk about counter-intuitive. Ignore the woman I want to have children with the mother of my child Im very attracted to and one of the deepest most intuitive, intellectual people I know.

Im going to post and read and try my best. Its so freaking hard knowing Im going to pay a lot of money for her to live separate. And we are actually get along but I cant push or pursue. I can always make more money I love coaching kids which is what I do. I just have to accept the unknown. Appreciate the insight from all you more experienced DBers. I hope I get there one day. Im going to try. Im not going to file or do mediation unless she pushes it. I still love this woman but I want her to come to me... with passion.

[ovrrnbw]

She has been telling me Im hot and her mom says I cant have girlfriends because Im too good looking.

Barf

We have said well always love each other how were great parents so there are all these positives but she has these walls up or just doesnt have the feelings.

I'd stop saying this to her. It doesn't sound like she's being an example of a "great parent". You're reinforcing her self image as a good person, do good people act like she is acting?

She said she wanted to hug me and touch me more. I still think she is pretty messed up.

Barf. She's keeping you simmering on the back. A good eye roll, or sarcastic "OK" would suffice IMO.

Keep in mind what you want, and stay disciplined Did. Stick to it, good luck.

[Did]

ovrrnbw- Youre right I need to stop complimenting her and telling her good things as if Im going to get a normal response. Since she left me that doesnt make a great parent. Splitting a family with a man who is trying his balls off to work on himself and would do almost anything for his fault... But she really is a good mom to a fault, shes almost obsessive about raising our daughter.

I need to be harder to get and pull further away. Detach more. Going to read detachment thread now. Thanks