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#2794206 06/05/18 02:21 PM
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Old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2793926#Post2793926

S17 and I have been having an issue on driving him to school. He started training pretty heavily for track and part of that was getting up in the mornings to get some miles in before school. There was a new trainer he wanted to work with that told him he wouldn't train him unless he followed a few rules and miles in the morning was one of them. I honestly didn't think S would follow through because he's definitely not a morning person and has trouble getting up for school as it was. But he did it and I encouraged him by getting up to run with him. I also told him I would drive him to school because with him running he has less time to get ready in the mornings. Problem is, he is late all the time. Originally, D15 wanted to leave at 7:00 because she likes to get to school early. We compromised at 7:10 but S is never ready on time and we're always getting to school in the nick of time which she hates. So, she started taking the bus again because she got sick of it. I have to follow up with S a lot to make sure he's coming, letting him know I'm leaving now, etc. to which he responds by saying "I'm coming" but really all that means is that he expects me to wait until he's finished. This causes ALL kinds of issues between S and I....what started off as me trying to encourage him has become an issue where he behaves totally entitled and gets really ticked if I leave. Yesterday I left him. He had the nerve to send me a text and tell me I was "unbelievable" that I couldn't wait two extra minutes. However, I didn't see that text and I realized I had forgotten my sunglasses so I turned around and came back. S said "oh I thought you left" I said "I did leave, but I forgot my sunglasses so I came back. If you're ready, come on.". Then I got in the car and saw the text he had sent me. I told him he had some nerve texting me on the phone that I pay for to tell my how "unbelievable" I am simply because I followed through on leaving him when he's not ready by 7:10. We argued on the way to school and he yelled at me something about how I couldn't wait just an extra TWO MINUTES. I pulled over and told him to get out and walk to school.
Today S goes out to the garage to ride his bike to school and there's no bike. He's not sure where he left it. So guess who ended up driving him to school after I said I wouldn't. The whole drive to school he kept telling me that he's never later than 7:15 (which is totally not true and many times if I don't go upstairs to rewake him, he wouldn't get up at all) and that if I would just wait until 7:15 this would be a non-issue. Mind you, this has gone from leaving at 7:00 to leaving at 7:10 to know him pushing me to leave a 7:15. And even if I agreed to leave at 7:15 and he was not downstairs so I leave at 7:16 he would still be mad that I couldn't wait "two more minutes".
This is obviously an issue I need to work out with S...but something that I thought was interesting was that I told D15 what had happened and she in response to S calling me "unbelievable" she said "Oh, he's using Daddy vocabulary". Consequently, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking.

Anyway, D15 has a soccer tournament this weekend and we all have to stay in a hotel room so I"m not looking forward so much to that. However, these are also the very things I think about when I think about physically separating. Our older two travel for sports a lot and we often have to stay in hotel rooms. If we were separated, it would be so awkward not only to be at all their functions together but separate and putting the littles in a position where they are there with one parent, but the other parent is there too and when we're in the same hotel but different rooms....it's just too much to even figure out how to navigate. Between all 4 kids we are gone every night of the week, so we would see each other constantly bc just bc it's one parent's night with the kids wouldn't mean the other parent wouldn't still come to the game/practice. So it would be this weird constant together but separate and putting the kids in a constant position where they are "with" one parent but also spending time with the other and I can just see having to constantly explain, "No, you can't leave with Daddy because you're with Mommy this week". How do people do this??????


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
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HelenaJ #2794233 06/05/18 10:17 PM
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Helena I'm just here to offer you my support- I feel you are in a very tough spot. I hope others with experience can weigh in. Stay Well!


M51 w50
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S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

LoneWlf #2794723 06/07/18 04:11 PM
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How are you Helena?

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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2794779 06/08/18 03:01 AM
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Thank you LW and thanks V for checking up on me.

Mostly want to avoid people and activities but I think part of that is monthly hormones. I cried twice yesterday and once already today. I see everyone here go through the ups and downs, some days you feel strong and some days you want to hide under the covers. Today I want to hide under the covers but instead I m on my way to Annapolis to tour the Naval Academy with the family and then headed to NJ for a soccer tournament for D15. I have been able to cope ok with my new circumstances as long as I m in my surroundings and in my routine. When I go outside of that I really struggle.

My sister texted me and wants to come visit. Unfortunately since she is my confidante, she pretty much hates my H. She can t come during the time he is out of town so she was wanting to stay at a hotel. I told her to just hold off bc the kids would wonder why she wasn t staying at our house and everything would just be weird. Like, I can t just ask H to stay home while we go hang out with her. So, feeling sad and isolated like things just keep getting worse.

I am hard on myself sometimes bc I won t accept these circumstances-we can t really go on unless I do. I feel like if only I wasn t so resentful and unaccepting we could at least have a pleasant daily life. Other days I m like eff him, he has created the saddest and ruthless terms for my life because of his pride and ego and the situation we are in is bc of those terms not my refusal to accept them. But then there ARE those things I did....it s a cruel back and forth dialogue inside my head that exhausts me and makes me feel like the most worthless person. I don t know how to stop it.

On a brighter note, as S5 built his Thomas the train tracks last night, he told us that he loves life.

Sorry to be Debbie Downer, that s why I haven t posted much, just not in a good place at the moment. I also feel like my situation is much different than what many here are going through and the ones who have provided feedback I think probably won t continue to do so bc my situation upsets them to the point that they can t help.

Anyway, V you mentioned having some feedback on a post from my last thread and said you would elaborate later. Did you decide not to intentionally or just been busy? I know you ve got your exam coming up any day now.

Thanks for listening and thinking of me.



Edit - bolded items are the reason that this post disappeared

Last edited by Cadet; 06/08/18 03:16 AM. Reason: restored post

M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
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HelenaJ #2794789 06/08/18 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
I m on my way to Annapolis to tour the Naval Academy with the family

Is someone thinking about going to my third favorite Academy?

Its a great place.

smile smile smile


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Cadet #2794797 06/08/18 03:37 AM
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Helena,

I havent commented at all because I am a newbie, but I have been reading your thread and quietly pulling for you. These ups and downs are completely normal. I get them myself. I would just say that the best thing I do is force myself to get out of the house and be social, exercise, and talk to others. Action is important, otherwise it is really easy to get lost in thoughts and cheeseless tunnels.

I would also say that your sister should come. You need that support, that confidante right now in your life right now. A week after BD my best friend flew down to spend the weekend with me, and that is the only way I survived it. I understand that she is angry at H, but can she really not control herself? If she is willing to come and help you, I think you should accept it.

Best of luck with everything, I am pulling for you!


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
D official 5/7/2019
Cadet #2794799 06/08/18 03:40 AM
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Gotcha, cant use even normal apostrophes, ok. Autocorrect is not going to like that haha.

We shall see about the Naval Academy, S17 got a letter of interest due to his mad skillz in track grin Ive been there several times, seen a few Navy football games, even got to see Army vs Navy from the box seats, that was pretty awesome.

Are you retired military? My sister is retired Air Firce and my sister in law is retired Navy. My oldest brother served 8 in the Navy and my Dad also served Navy although I forgot how many terms. I was very close to going Army ROTC but didn t due to some credits not transferring. Kind of glad that didnt work out lol

Last edited by Cadet; 06/08/18 03:44 AM. Reason: restored post

M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
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HelenaJ #2794804 06/08/18 03:49 AM
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I graduated from the USAF Academy and flew in the Air Force in my younger days.

Navy is a cool place and a great school been there many times.

The secret to getting into an Academy is to apply to one that is in less demand in your area.
I live near West Point and it is quite difficult to get into it around here.
I guess what I am saying is if you live near Annapolis he might consider applying to Merchant Marine Academy as there are usually less students that want to go there.


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Cadet #2794812 06/08/18 04:09 AM
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Cool, thank you for your service smile We must live in the same neck of the woods, I m considerably closer to the ocean.

Davide, thanks for posting. Yeah, I dont know about my sister, she has a tendency to make things about herself ha. I love her to pieces and am eternally grateful to have her in my life and she is absolutely my rock and best friend. With that said though, she told me she wants nothing to do with him and wont be in his presence and from my perspective even if she stayed with us it would be awkwardness on top of awkwardness.

Last edited by Cadet; 06/08/18 04:18 AM. Reason: restored post

M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2794816 06/08/18 04:16 AM
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Ok not posting anymore from my phone, this apostrophe thing does not get along well with auto correct! And I proofread but keep missing one!


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
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HelenaJ #2795056 06/09/18 06:52 PM
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I am checking in on you but am currently doing exams.

Stay strong

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2795159 06/10/18 02:24 PM
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No worries, I hope the exams are going well!!

Just got back from a long weekend in a hotel and Im exhausted. Had a nice evening last night by the outdoor pool and there was a grill at the hotel so H grilled burgers while I played Uno with the kiddos. We mostly try to stay out of each others way and we act like we are separated.

As I fall into bed Im just thinking that for whatever reason, my life was meant to take this turn. I dont know why yet but im trying to have faith that someday it will make sense.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2795178 06/10/18 10:38 PM
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Helena have faith know their will be better days ahead. Keep going!


M51 w50
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S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

LoneWlf #2796117 06/15/18 04:01 AM
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Ive been thinking lately about asking H if he would be willing to go to MC. Any thoughts on whether asking him this would be a productive thing to do right now? Or ever?


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2796119 06/15/18 04:11 AM
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My sense is that MC is only valuable if he wants to work towards saving the MR. (of course you can go on your own). I think asking a resistant spouse to do it is counterproductive because it is more pressure and pushes them farther away. My own WAW suggested MC but it became clear that she didnt want to work towards saving the MR but rather as a way to say all the things she was afraid to say to me (BD).

Of course if he makes moves towards R, then MC could be useful, and I think at a certain point necessary. But it doesnt sound like your H is there yet.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
D official 5/7/2019
Davide #2796218 06/15/18 01:37 PM
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Do not even begin to do MC with an abuser. They will develop that as a tactic to further abuse.

There is no way that someone with this m8ndset can be brought to realisation. If you are hoping for the flash of I did you wrong an apology and a personality transplant. That isn't it.

Similarly never MC a wayward the process will be used to justify an A and to self soothe that they 'tried. And that it's all you.

That way lies pain.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2796244 06/16/18 12:52 AM
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You're both right of course. I know it would be a bad idea and deep down I also know asking would be for the wrong reasons....to rescue, give him a path back to the M without having to sacrifice his pride and to test the waters of how he's feeling. Bad.

So, I trudge on I guess. I will never be able to wrap my head around how much will power it must take for him to do this. I've said this before, that I waver between thinking it's admirable and sick. I mean, to walk away from someone who hurts you takes a lot of strength and courage...it's just really hard for me to see myself as someone who hurts. Maybe everyone who hurts someone feels that way? Reminds me of a quote from Fight Club where Tyler Durden says "No one ever thinks they are a bad person."

Anyway, today we are headed to DC, my D15 was invited to play on our area's semi-pro team in a game up there against their semi-pro second string so that will be fun to watch.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2796251 06/16/18 01:25 AM
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Oh and I do have some good news...I am a little closer to figuring out my unexplained abdominal pain. I think I mentioned here that I had an umbilical hernia surgery back in March and the dr did a small exploratory incision where I said I was having pain. That is a long story bc he initially told me I was having pain bc of the hernia but when I expressed doubt the morning of the surgery he agreed with me that upon a second evaluation, the pain was most likely not from the hernia. That is obviously not what you want to hear when you are ready to roll into surgery! was bawling and of course H was not with me bc of all that is going on between us so that was very hard. Anyway, I have to have a dynamic ultrasound but this dr says I STILL have an umbilical hernia and that there is a big possibility the pain Im having is from yet another hernia. Probably bc two of my four babies were big and both were two weeks overdue, had to be induced etc. D15 was 10.1oz lol and Im not a big person. Anyway, feeling hopeful that I might have some answered to this four year long unexplained pain. In addition to this, I have a fibroid on my uterus that is bigger than my actual uterus and so I will have to have that removed as well. My OBGYN wants to do a partial hysterectomy but I decided I dont want to do that....this might be too much info but Im saying it anyway bc some other women here might have insight...I cant see how an orgasm could ever be the same without uterine contractions?? I may never have sex again, but just in case right?! Anyway, Im very anxious to get that procedure done as well bc my stomach feels bloated all the time-OBGYN said my uterus is the size of a 4 month pregnant woman ugh. I like to exercise and keep fit so this stomach bloat issue makes me crazy even though she said you would never know Im hiding a fibroid that large. Praying for answers and healing soon.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2796312 06/16/18 11:11 AM
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Orgasm has nothing to do with uterine contractions. Orgasms derive from the clitoritic complex nerve structure.

The uterus has few nerve endings.

That's why female circumcision is so destructive to sexuality.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2796313 06/16/18 11:12 AM
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I know this because I have had a partial and my sexual orgasms are unaffected.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2796319 06/16/18 12:48 PM
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M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2796376 06/17/18 03:49 AM
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Oops, I must have forgotten the dang apostrophes bc I was on my cell phone. Basically what I said was that the uterus definitely contracts during a female orgasm and that maybe for some women the contractions aren't strong enough to feel but I definitely feel them and orgasm would definitely not be the same for me.

Anyway, was a very long hot day yesterday but the game was fun to watch. They lost 0-2 but I love watching her play, it's always fun. There were 8 of us in my minivan though bc I invited MIL and FIL and D15 brought her friend. Traffic was horrific as is always the case on 95 haha, so, it took us like twice as long to get there as it should have.

My interactions with H are extremely limited but I can see myself getting a little more detached, able to be a little nicer rather than seething resentment. Trying hard to let go and still be able to function...I'm not a depressed person and I usually have plenty of energy but I'm finding myself not wanting to talk to anyone, not wanting to go anywhere, not caring as much if the house is a mess, I just want to withdraw inside myself. My situation is so weird, I'm ashamed. Ashamed that my M has fallen apart and I don't even know what I would say if someone asked me what happened. "I betrayed my H's trust and then he emotionally left the marriage and said he could never give me his heart again"? Is that really my story? Is that how it ends? I feel like there is so much in between but that could simply be justification on my part.

Today the Littles came with me to buy fruit and I got Starbucks for the Bigs to bribe them to wake up haha. Then we made Daddy a fresh fruit breakfast. Next we go to Incredibles 2 and then we spend the afternoon at MIL's little beach or come back here if it's raining. Should be a nice day for him.

Happy Father's Day to all of you Dads who are hanging in there, enduring your personal struggles while trying to do the best thing for your kids. Cheers to you all.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2796542 06/18/18 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
My situation is so weird, I'm ashamed. Ashamed that my M has fallen apart and I don't even know what I would say if someone asked me what happened. "I betrayed my H's trust and then he emotionally left the marriage and said he could never give me his heart again"?


this is may be why you do not want to talk with anybody--you don't want to have to explain yourself in case someone asks... not wanting to go anywhere... could be you are feeling melancholy... blue...

not caring as much if the house is a mess: have you ever seen the movie Friends with Money? there is a character in the movie, played by Frances McDormand, who stops caring enough to wash her hair regularly... she finally admits that it's because she's just going to have to do it again the next day... what's the point? sometimes we get tired of having to do the perpetual...

--artista

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Thats part of it...how can you make any friends or let anyone get very close when your life is a mess like this? Idk. I feel like its a secret that needs to be kept, at least until I decide if I want to physically separate.
I havent seen that movie but I like her as an actress, sounds like it might be funny and I could use some humor!
I feel like Im in a bit of a catch 22 bc I dont see things changing between H and I while were living in this scenario. And id like to stay as a family at least until S17 graduates so that we can skip the awkwardness of being newly separated during the important milestone events of this year. But Im also really sad that were going to experience these important events in this way-so deeply broken on the inside. These events that should be really wonderful memories are going to instead be experienced with such a dark cloud hanging over. Some days I wonder if by holding on im delaying what could be a healthier R.
Ive been thinking lately that H is a way better DBer than me ha. He can act as if better than anyone I could imagine and does very well at treating me like the cashier. Hell offer to buy my wine if hes going to the store or make me something specific for dinner if hes already making it for himself....its like he already knows how to do all of these things perfectly that we all struggle with here on these boards...detach, differentiate, act as if, GAL, take the focus off the R....why does this make me angry?? It makes me angry that hes so GOOD at this. That he can be otherwise kind while simultaneously making me feel that Im simply unworthy of his love? And here I am, so ugly and full of resentment that its hard for me to even speak or look at him. If ive learned anything from my mistakes its been to handle even the darkest moments with integrity but yet here I am hating myself bc I just cant/wont behave the way I need to. I feel so completely less than.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2796613 06/18/18 03:56 PM
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Hi Helena,

It's hard having so many conflicted thoughts. Eventually you may need to separate from your husband to either reconcile or move on because it sounds like this stand-still has been going on for so long and isn't healthy for anyone, but that's understandable if you're waiting for your son to graduate. It seems cruel and especially hard when you're suffering so deeply and your spouse appears to be busy and doing fine on his own. I guess the one who withholds the love and affection is more empowered but with some effort surely you'll soon make some progress towards focusing on other things. Perhaps you first need to make peace with yourself and that can be the hardest thing to do. It seems you're actively thinking, posting here, and working on building up to making changes so you can at least commend yourself for that!

NicoleR #2796627 06/18/18 09:32 PM
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Your WH isn't DB he doesn't operate to restore R.

You Do.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


NicoleR #2797468 06/23/18 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Eventually you may need to separate from your husband to either reconcile or move on because it sounds like this stand-still has been going on for so long and isn't healthy for anyone


It's true that we are very good at stand stills. H has always been one to ignore when he is angry and I used to hate it sooo much. I would pursue him and ask him why he wasn't speaking to me, etc. But we've been together a really long time. I eventually caught on that nothing lasts forever and I just need to out-wait his nonsense and I would carry on and I sort of learned acting "as if" by default. The more I acted as if the more he did too. Something would eventually stop the stand off, usually just time and then conversing about normal stuff and then things would just get back to normal. I feel like our R has been filled with these types of head games-neither of us talks about how we feel, we just act as if we're getting along fine without the other person. I used to talk about how I felt but it's been so long I don't know how anymore and I don't trust how I feel....I look for external validation on whether how I feel is "right" or "wrong" because my feelings are never ever validated within this relationship.

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I guess the one who withholds the love and affection is more empowered

Story of my life.

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with some effort surely you'll soon make some progress towards focusing on other things

I registered for a ladies only handgun class, I've been wanting to learn how to use my gun. If I find it fun, maybe I can spend some time at the range occasionally.

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Perhaps you first need to make peace with yourself and that can be the hardest thing to do.


For sure. I don't know how that will ever happen, especially with H insisting that our problems are all my fault. And while I know that it's not ALL my fault, the breaking of the trust IS all my fault and it just doesn't seem to be repairable. There is no peace to be found.

Quote:
It seems you're actively thinking, posting here, and working on building up to making changes so you can at least commend yourself for that!


I'm not sure the changes I've made will bring me any closer to reconciliation, but I think I've conveyed the message that I'm done being beaten up over and over and that I've accepted if he wants to live as roommates there is nothing I can do to change it. I'm letting go. Hardest thing ever. It feels like it is my choice sometimes because I know some things would be easier if I would just "cooperate", but I know this is not my choice and I tell myself that on a daily basis.

Update:
H is out of town this weekend with S17 for track and I stayed home with the other 3. Last night we watched Peter Rabbit and had popcorn and snacks and tonight we're going to the men's semi-pro soccer game if it's not storming.
I don't see how much of anything can change. With H pronouncing that he is never going to trust me again and will never give me his heart again, what does "trying" even look like?? How do I "try"? That is a very serious question.

This has not been a hasty decision for him but rather something he's been feeling since the company party 4.5 years ago. Before he told me these things, I WAS trying. I was so frustrated and at times very hopeless because I could sense his feelings but tried to keep hope that it would change in time. We had a fine life on the surface but all the rotten underneath remained until he finally told me his decision (which was almost a relief because he would never admit the real reasons for his behaviors and so I kept thinking I could change it somehow). If I couldn't change things then, when we were still being affectionate and intimate, there is no chance I'm changing them now when I have one foot out the door-what good can come of this under these circumstances? I feel like nothing will be accomplished in this year except that I will get to spend it full time with my kids. Prolonging the inevitable.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2797489 06/23/18 02:33 PM
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Game got rained out, watching The Bachelorette with D15, dont judge grin


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2797532 06/24/18 08:42 AM
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Nice, relaxing day. Slept in too late for spin class so I got the van washed and went to Costco. Came home, cleaned the pool, blew up and cleaned all the floaties, swam with the kiddos and worked on my tan by default smile Might run later after the sun goes down. I try to run my route every day for the most part...little over two miles. Nothing super impressive, but like anything else, it's the consistency that counts! Rather than extend the distance, I try to work on my times. I was going to the track and doing sprints-sprinters are ripped. They look like they lift weights 24/7, but it's the difference between working fast twitch vs slow twitch muscles...hey. Maybe I'll go the track later and get back to it. Any other runners out there? Not that I classify myself as a runner....totally am not...but I do it anyway smile

H and S17 will be home soon. S17 qualified for regionals in all three events, but none of the events were great times for him overall. Running is interesting...can't figure out how to help him any more than we have. Some days are great for him and some days aren't. I suppose such is life right??

Hope ya'll are having a great Sunday.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2797998 06/26/18 10:56 AM
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It's been 44 days since I told H that unless he is serious about things being different between us than they are, I never wanted to discuss our R with him again. So, no relationship talk in about a month and a half. We haven't been intimate in....9 months maybe?

Today he came home from work whistling and singing as usual and that is really getting old. It's like really dude? Come on, so over the top.

Something weird...I can't find my divorcebusting book. I had it by my bedside with the spine facing the wall under some other books and it's not there anymore. I really don't think H has it....I must have misplaced it?? He certainly wouldn't take it bc he wouldn't know if I'd miss it instantly or not....but where did it go?? Weird. Maybe he knows how to act as if better than me because he read the book. Wouldn't that be something....

I was thinking today that I can't understand what makes some of the WAS's I read about here leave their kids like they do or pawn them off on other people when it's their time. It's unimaginable to me. I wouldn't ever ever leave without having a custody agreement in place where I KNEW my kids were coming with me, how often and when. They have literally become my reason for existing and they are the reason the decision to separate kills me so much. Just don't get it.

Anyway, I'm just keeping on. In addition to my gun class, I need to get involved in something else. You guys tried to tell me in the beginning to GAL but I was too afraid of the negative impact it might have on reconciliation. But I have to keep moving forward.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2798723 06/29/18 10:51 AM
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H had some clothes in his basket that he had told me needed to be rewashed (or at least I thought that's what he said). They sat there in the entryway for a week and I was cleaning up so I put his clothes in the dirty laundry and put the basket away. I woke up the next morning to a text that came through at like 1:20am saying "where are my shirts?" I got up and went into the bathroom and ran into his laundry bin and noticed that my clothes had been thrown on the floor from my vanity chair. I was pretty sure this was something he had done but thought maybe D15 put my clothes on the floor to sit in my vanity chair and paint her nails or something but she said no, she didn't do that. I said ok, I figured you didn't, I think I know what happened. She said what? I said I think Daddy was mad that I moved his clothes. She said he was probably drunk. I said no, it was just last night. She said again, he was probably drunk. Later that morning after D15 had left H asked me about his clothes and I said I thought you told me they needed to be rewashed so I put them in the laundry. The maturity level of...then he started talking over me, etc. He does no wrong you know.

As I go through this journey, I think back to some of the things H has said to me and I wonder what would have been a better response than what I gave. My H asked me a couple of months ago "Why did you do this to us?"....of course I apologized, said I never meant to hurt him I just lost track of time, same things I've said over and over. If he said that to me again tomorrow, is there a more appropriate response? It just seems like the way he talks to me, there is no good way to respond, no way to really communicate. I mean, as I think about it, it's not really a question is it? I mean, not one I can answer....it's a rhetorical question. Why am I just seeing that??


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2798730 06/29/18 11:36 AM
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Sometimes the things I post are just random thoughts, my intention is to use my threads as sort of a documentation of this year, one post is not necessarily related to another as I dont have an ongoing dramatic situation on my hands. I assure you Im an otherwise intelligent person smile. I dont get a whole lot of feedback-what are you guys thinking when you read my posts??


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2798742 06/29/18 03:06 PM
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Hi Helena I have been following your sitch and sorry you are going through this. i think it is a great place to journal here, few monthd down the lane you might see for yourself how much you have progressed and it will be a great morale booster. It is good that you do not have an ongoing dramatic high stress sitch, calm people make better decisions anyway. When i felt initially I was not getting enough feedback, I started participating and helping in other sitches and being more frequent in my updates. Hope that helps you too.

arsh18 #2798772 06/30/18 01:39 AM
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Hi Arsh, thanks for responding. Yes my situation is more of a stalemate I suppose....it's definitely still stressful, just not dramatic in terms of posting play by plays here and needing advice bc the truth is, H and I don't really interact. That is mostly my choice as he wants to pretend and play house but I do not. Based on some of the posts I received when H and I were interacting, it seemed that maybe most people thought my situation was dangerous to kids and I emotionally and that my M was not healthy enough to stay in. But I am still here in the M and I still need support as I go through it ya know?
I've been going through this for a long time and it always ends the same, whether it's with a counselor or my sister or here-people tell me that this is no way to live and that's as far as it goes. I know this, I know it's know way to live, believe me. It's horrible. But clearly there are things I need to change about myself that will allow me to see what everyone else sees.
Anyway, this is something I need to do on my own regardless. I guess if anyone wants to help or be a friend they either will or won't.

_____

I know that one of my biggest problems has been with setting boundaries in my R with H. He's very set on who he is and what he does and does not waver. So, if I want to be with him, I either accept or I don't. I was very young when I met him and didn't really know who I was anyway, so I became very fluid and "grew up" with his definitions and opinions simply because they were stronger than mine and I didn't (usually) mind. H has a lot of characteristics of personality disorder but I don't talk much about it because people automatically think you're labeling or blame shifting or just reaching for straws (someone once said that nearly everyone here labels their partner with some sort of personality disorder). But at the end of the day, it's my life and I know what I live with. I also understand that H can be an emotional abuser and an emotional manipulator. I just can't bring myself to label as one thing or another-I had the same difficulty with his drinking....I couldn't label him as an alcoholic because what does that mean exactly? He was drinking every other day, weird rituals/drinking days, passing out, refused to stop even though he knew he might lose me over it....I was googling al-anon and ways to cope and still could not label him an alcoholic.

So back to the boundaries. H drank heavily. To be fair, he never tried to tell me he would stop or cut back. I knew the problem. And I knew it before I married him. I desperately debated on whether marrying him was the right thing....did I want to live like that for the rest of my life?? I didn't really confide in anyone...someone not knowing about my situation once told me from her experience "alcoholism is a very secretive life". I thought in my head, yes it is. Needless to say, I married him. After we had kids he changed. He still drank heavily, but not so often to the point of passing out-he definitely restructured. And the ritualistic nature relaxed considerably....it used to be he wouldn't go anywhere on "drinking nights" but when you have kids and they are involved in things, it can't really be like that if you want to be an involved parent, which he did. He chose a more relaxed path where he could both drink and be an involved parent. But my dilemma was: do I marry an alcoholic or not? He's making no promises to stop, in fact the opposite. He tells me this is him, take it or leave it. Inside I knew I didn't want it...but I wanted HIM. So I married him and have tons of resentment mostly because I saw that he did change for something he cared enough to change for-our kids. But not for me.
Pornography...once again, he's never said he would stop or cut back. This is him, all guys do it, take it or leave it. I've googled relentlessly and sought external validation on whether it is "right" or "wrong". My inside and my heart says it is WRONG at least in the manner in which it occurs in my situation. But I have betrayed my own feelings by tolerating it because what is the alternative? To end the M?
I feel bullied into accepting things that don't feel right to me and that hurt me but the fact of the matter is, I've accepted it. I've created this life. Resentment has taken over my entire heart at times, clouded my judgment at times and has turned me into a person I don't want to be at times.
In this current situation, I have been given the guidelines by H for this new R. They are not acceptable to me. I have told him that and told him I would not live like that. And yet here I am. Living like that.
I somehow have to give up this vision of the perfect me, the perfect family and accept that it's broken. Very, very broken. And I have to find strength, like the super human kind, because to make my life right and live true to myself, my kids' will be turned upside down at least in the short term. What good mother who prefers to put her children ahead of herself does that? I have always been "laid back" and "easy going". I like that about myself. I don't create drama and try to tone it down when it appears. I don't know how to CREATE a situation where I turn everyone's lives upside down knowing that it is going to start drama, unhappiness and perhaps lifelong scars. I've always just dealt with things, obviously not in the best ways, and I've learned that sometimes indecision creates decisions...ones that are not always for the best. I do not choose to live in a house with my H and co-parent when there is no M. I do not want this. I've tried to create my boundaries the best I can without actually leaving, given that I do not want a D. 1) implemented no R talk where the intent is just to beat me up...no R talk unless he's serious about changing the way things are between us 2) gave him my rings back. He has told me we are no longer a couple and to me, this was the most obvious way to acknowledge that and 3) I do not interact with him, pursue him, talk to him, rely on him, ask his opinion, cook for him, buy him things, support him or anything else that a partner would do.
Some days I really really struggle because a voice in my head tells me that these "boundaries" simply give him what he wanted! I've simply accepted his terms.
The other voice in my head tells me not to think in black and white terms. The only options are not to "live with it" or to go. There must be an in-between, one where he feels the full consequences of his choices and perhaps he will change his mind. I just have to keep listening to this voice. I am not "living with it". I am accepting his terms full on in the short term, hoping he will change his mind and miss what we had....and in the long term, if he does not change his mind, I guess I will have to make the decision to go or else truly accept living with it. I am definitely the frog in the pot and the heat just keeps increasing.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2798803 06/30/18 10:36 AM
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Honey, that perfect R was a projection. It never existed.

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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Vanilla #2798881 07/01/18 08:31 AM
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We certainly never had a perfect R. Just a perfect family.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2798905 07/01/18 02:46 PM
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Helena,

I'm honestly not sure what to say about your situation. It sounds like you're not planning to leave your husband any time soon but there's also not much chance that the marriage can be fixed as things currently stand. It seems the days are passing by and you're reflecting on my aspects of the marriage and of yourself. It sounds like you've accepted a lot of your husband's behaviors. I wish he could appreciate you and want to fix the marriage just as you do. The way he's chosen to live seems cruel and doesn't seem to offer either you nor he a high quality of life. I hope someday you can find a way to break this cycle. There are a lot of limitations to a forum like this one but if you could see a counselor in real life then perhaps you'd get more useful feedback. I really hope it won't be too long until there's a breakthrough for you. I lived like this in a dead marriage with my husband for a few years and every night I fell asleep filled with sorry. It's a type of silent suffering that few can understand.

NicoleR #2799011 07/02/18 04:52 AM
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Hi Nicole,
Yes, after weighing everything out, it just seems to make the most sense to wait to make any decisions until S17 graduates. With that said, in my heart I do not think anything will change between H and I until and unless I move out....but I am also terrified to do that. He will make my life a living hell and try to intimidate me to no end if I make moves to leave. I'm very scared, not for my safety but for my well being. I make over twice what he makes so I am also very scared at what he would try to do to me financially...I'm literally scared motionless to be honest.
I have seen two IC's, I had to change once when I changed jobs to be more convenient to where I work. Honestly I don't find it very helpful because most people think it takes two to work on a M and they always just look at me like "well, this is no way to live...". Yes, I realize that, thank you. lol.
I feel pretty helpless to be honest. I feel scared, weak and alone and backed into a corner. I have no support network here whatsoever outside of H's family and I know I need to change that. But it's hard. I am depressed on the inside and to act anything other than that takes so much energy. You said it perfectly, this is a silent suffering. I don't even know what to say to explain my situation...I can't say my H has told me he wants a D....I can only say my H no longer wants a R with me. But he wants to stay in the same house for the sake of our children. Makes me seem like a pretty bad partner if my H wants nothing to do with me but makes him sound like a hero for putting his kids first. Great opener to make friends hey? I don't feel like anyone can understand what I'm going through, sometimes I'm not even sure the people here really understand and the ones that seemed to understand have left, saying pretty much what my sister said-until you decide to change it, nothing will change. I get that, but I'm too scared to change anything!!!! No one seems to understand how that feels. There is so much at stake. AND I never wanted a D, but now might be forced to take steps in that direction just to have some semblance of a normal life. My sister will not stay in the same house as H now and wants nothing to do with him, it's not appropriate to continue having conversations with my SIL about this because she is H's family, not mine and my best friend from my hometown is having her own issues with her blended family and hasn't been very talkative. She cannot understand either-she told me in every other area of my life I am smart and strong and independent and she says she can't understand why I let him do this to me. And many of the veterans here have said they can barely even read my situation much less help me. I just don't think I've ever felt more alone in my life. I'm so completely lost at where my responsibility begins and ends.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799033 07/02/18 06:27 AM
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Read your entire sitch, unreal is the first word that comes into my mind. Your H is not a man!!! He has abused you, you know this. You allow this for the sake of your children. You are staying until S17 graduates?

What will the reason be after that date passes?

I cannot believe how much you communicate with him. You know you are not following the advice given to you from this site... right?

I have three sisters and I would never let one of their H treat them like this. I would pay for her to move out.

Time for more GAL activities, what happened to the gun range?
Your S17 is a runner, every weekend there are running events sign up for a 5K even if you have to walk the end of the race. You could also voluteer at these races hand out water do sign ups, its a great way to meet new people. Bring all the kids they will love it.

Much peace to you, I think I live somewhat near you so I know there are races close by.


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
bhappy2 #2799102 07/02/18 12:14 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to visit my thread and spending the time to read it. I do know that H has been abusive, but I've also felt like I mostly deserved it and he absolutely feels that I do. I truly have difficulty seeing where my responsibility begins and ends as I have made a major mistake in my M. I know I don't deserve to be punished for it for the rest of my life but I get confused as to how much is "enough". I just don't know what's normal, that's what it comes down to.

Yes, I had planned to wait to make any decisions until S17 graduates because there are so many big events this year...the kids know we go to H and I's hometown every summer and they have made friends there and come to love it...I kept procrastinating booking the trip but they need to see my Mother too. She's really getting up there in age and I have no idea how many more times she'll get to see my kids. So we have our summer vacation, D8 goes to summer camp for the first time, S17 turns 18, D15 turns sweet 16, and S17 graduates and goes off to college. We had been talking about Disneyworld before all this happened and the little's keep asking when we're going....I keep wondering if I should give them that memory as a family. That's a lot of milestone events in a family and I just want to be as present as possible. Once S17 has gone to college, we'll obviously know where he's going, how much it will be and I'll have his senior gift paid for which is $300/month until he graduates (money I would need if H and I separated).

Quote:
I cannot believe how much you communicate with him. You know you are not following the advice given to you from this site... right?


I actually don't communicate with him anymore about anything besides the kids. Back in March we communicated a lot bc that's when he told me all these things...he was texting me relentlessly as he was out of the country. So we did talk a lot about the R and then he would text me randomly once he got home, mostly negative things but sometimes saying things like "I miss you in my life but understand your absence". I feel like everything he says and does is a manipulation. I stopped saying hello and goodbye, stopped telling him about my life, haven't called him in months, only text when absolutely necessary about the kids, I've found it very difficult to look at him or acknowledge him at all even when he's speaking to me but I've been working on that bc it's not a healthy thing for the kids to see. When I had surgery I asked his mother to take me, he said he felt like he should be there but he understood my decision. It's been over 1.5 months since we have talked about anything R wise and even before that it was him who initiated texts about it, not me. Kids have been all we talk about. Lately I have found that as I start to detach more (which is still sooooooooo far to go) that I am not as cold as I used to be and will acknowledge him more....tonight I told him I was keeping a migraine at bay and told him the details of how it came on this afternoon which is something I have not been doing...telling him personal things. Perhaps I need to stop that cold. Thoughts?

In relationship past, if H is upset with me, I have always been afraid to "escalate" things because he will always one up me. If I ignore him for an hour, he will ignore me for days and do whatever he can to make me feel left out. He's an extremely harsh person to be on bad terms with. However, I've just dropped the rope this time. At first of course when he told me he could no longer be a couple with me, I begged to work things out. But once he made himself clear, I stopped. I stopped communications, I gave him back my rings, I stopped inviting him to be a part of my life. Those are huge steps for me as I know there is no going back. I dove off a mini cliff and let myself fall and it was a really big deal. Of course he will never ever acknowledge my rings or the note that I wrote. It all still appears untouched. Head games from him. ALWAYS. But I did it and it's done and it was a stand I took for myself and my self respect.

Quote:
Time for more GAL activities, what happened to the gun range?

Exactly, this is exactly what had me so caught up in your thread, the way you've been able to move on with your life. The gun range is July 21st, looking forward to it. I run most days, running a race is ok and you're right, there are tons around here. But that doesn't get me involved with other people really...I need to build a circle. Difficult to plan on doing things with just me and the kids...H will most always come. He is very keen on being a "family" and to him, that's what we're supposed to be doing...being a family for the sake of the kids. I can't really tell him he can't come ya know? I take opportunities to do things alone with the kids as they arise, but can't really plan it if that makes sense.

I love my kids more than anything in this world and I loved my family and I loved my H. Being forced to make these decisions and having to be the one to carry it through even though it's not what I want is like the worst torture. And he will torment me every.step.of.the.way.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799113 07/02/18 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
I know I don't deserve to be punished for it for the rest of my life but I get confused as to how much is "enough". I just don't know what's normal, that's what it comes down to.


Of course youre afraid, but its time to put your foot down. You do not deserve to be treated like this, do you not think your children are seeing this? They are learning from your H that if you believe someone has done something wrong to you, you then torment them for as long as they can take it. Your life is worth living and being happy.

Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
We had been talking about Disneyworld before all this happened and the little's keep asking when we're going....I keep wondering if I should give them that memory as a family.


These are tough situations I get that, but you could do this without him. If you cant afford it then guess what the kids will have to wait.

Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
I actually don't communicate with him anymore about anything besides the kids.


As I read your sitch something stuck out to me, he texted you that he misses you and wants to be with you. You jump all over this, why? He is playing with your emotions, do not let him do that.



Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
In relationship past, if H is upset with me, I have always been afraid to "escalate" things because he will always one up me.


What are some of the things he would get upset with you, of course beside the kissing and time with coworker? Who usually would stay mad longer? I read Vanilla post all the time because they deal directly with abuse, and clearly he is doing this.

Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
I love my kids more than anything in this world and I loved my family and I loved my H. Being forced to make these decisions and having to be the one to carry it through even though it's not what I want is like the worst torture. And he will torment me every.step.of.the.way.


The best part is you used past tense when saying you loved your H, so do you love him or the idea of keeping the family together? You are deserving of being treated with respect even after what happened, you apologized enough. If you keep apologizing it will have no effect whatsoever.

It looks like you might live near NYC. If so I will give you plenty of recomendations for fun and inexpensive activities with the kids, make it know that H is welcome to come but if he says no then you go anyway. BTW I just ran a 5K that included a free BBQ and carnival to all the kids... it was great my D23 nd D19 ran with me. They both beat me and I called for a thorough investigation..LOL... great time...I am prob going whitewater rafting this Thursday, looks like fun..

Keep posting, there is no better site on the internet for help.


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
bhappy2 #2799115 07/02/18 01:39 PM
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Please put a signature on your thread.


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
bhappy2 #2799121 07/02/18 02:09 PM
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Bhappy,
You say you didn't think H is abusive there is different abuse. After lots of therapy I have been in a emotional abusive relationship and I can say this emotional abuse stays forever and breaks us to ourself esteem is gone. I am a strong business woman and I am now finding myself again W controlled everything and if W didn't get her way hell will break lose so what did I do I gave in to everything. Now I am seeing a little more clear I have removed my blinders. Sometimes we must do the right thing for your insanity.


At BD
Lesbian marriage
Me39,W36
S9,D9,S8 adopted all three
Together almost 10yrs
Bomb Drop - April 2017
W movedout - May,2017
OW June,2017
Currently 2018
Me40, W38
S10,D10,S9
marina7 #2799124 07/02/18 02:18 PM
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No I clearly stated H is abusive, I understand there are different types of abuse and I believe Helena needs to do more to stop it. Yes we all come here to save our M but we might just really save ourselves. Abuse is abuse whether physical or emotional. Her chldren should not be subjected to this!


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
bhappy2 #2799127 07/02/18 02:27 PM
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Am sorry BHappy I meant to say Helena,

And yes abuse is abuse speaking for myself I remember sitting in therapy and telling my therapist W is not abusive she never hit me. It took time to see I was in an abusive relationship.


At BD
Lesbian marriage
Me39,W36
S9,D9,S8 adopted all three
Together almost 10yrs
Bomb Drop - April 2017
W movedout - May,2017
OW June,2017
Currently 2018
Me40, W38
S10,D10,S9
marina7 #2799129 07/02/18 02:28 PM
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When I was typing the first time I meant to write. I agree with you bhappy


At BD
Lesbian marriage
Me39,W36
S9,D9,S8 adopted all three
Together almost 10yrs
Bomb Drop - April 2017
W movedout - May,2017
OW June,2017
Currently 2018
Me40, W38
S10,D10,S9
bhappy2 #2799195 07/03/18 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Of course youre afraid, but its time to put your foot down.


Do you have specifics of how I can do better or what I should be doing that I'm not?

Quote:
As I read your sitch something stuck out to me, he texted you that he misses you and wants to be with you. You jump all over this, why? He is playing with your emotions, do not let him do that.


I figured out very quickly that he was playing with my emotions. He's like every other WAS on here, he wants things his way until he starts to miss something and then tries to have things both ways. I never did jump all over it, in fact (at least it seemed to me!!) I squashed it. The specific texts were:
H: I really miss you in my life. But I understand your absence.

Me: You left me. I am not absent. You want a coparent, not a wife. At least with me. And therefore you don't have one. I did not mysteriously become absent.

H: I did not leave you. I just can't ever allow my heart to be crushed like that again.

Me: You did not physically leave me becuase you don't care enough about me to do t hat. You just left me in every other way. And Im actually starting to be ok with it, so just leave me alone. You're only texting me bc you're drunk anyway.

H: Agreed, I am sorry for violating your "don't text me anymore" policy. This is my only channel to express my feelings though.

Me: Unless you're serious about things being different between us than they are, I don't ever want to talk about our relationship with you again.

H: I won't text you anymore. I get it. You have made it very clear.

The next day he texted me:

H: Looking back, I said "agreed" to the fact that I had been drinking not to the fact that I agreed with any of your insane inferences. I am appalled that you would think this is something that I "want". I just wanted to clarify. I don't want to start anything.

Me: K, hope you feel better.

H: Nicely played.

Me: Well, you did call me insane. I'm used to that crap though.

H: I have no ill will towards you by any stretch. I actually had significant dilemma about adding "insane". But it don't matter.

Me: Ok, doesn't matter. Thanks for clarifying crap that doesn't matter.

H: You are so wise. I bow to your ability to crush the hearts you are entrusted with and still remain a victim. You are truly a gallant person. I am sorry that I did absolutely nothing to you. I am such a jerk.

I never responded and that is the last communication we had regarding "us" and that was on May 13th. Coincidentally, Mother's Day.

What are your thoughts on how I handled that? If you have suggestions, I really would love to hear it because I'm sure it will come up again at some point and I need to be prepared.

Quote:
What are some of the things he would get upset with you, of course beside the kissing and time with coworker? Who usually would stay mad longer?


He would get upset about different stuff and mostly frames it as me "not taking his opinion into consideration". Back when we very first got together, he would get upset if I wore certain jewelry (no sterling silver), listed to certain music (I was really only "safe" to listen to his music), etc. Once my Mom sent me money for xmas to buy myself a jacket that I liked but he didn't. We didn't spend xmas together that year, he would not return my calls. Over the top stuff. He changed as he got older, would get angry about different things....I bought a bureau for the front entrance once and he was very angry, didn't talk to me for days. Once I put some stuff in our shed and he took it all back out. At our old house, I had attic stairs put in and was then able to get in the attic myself and put things away and get them back out and he would get angry about that. One time we were at the mall and he had our son (who was just a toddler) on the second floor and I was on the first floor at the bottom of the escalator. I could see S toddling toward the escalator at what looked to me like a speed faster than what H could get to him...I yelled from the bottom, "H, grab him!" He was very angry with me, told me I acted like an idiot. There are TONS of examples where he has said things or acted in ways that are simply over the top. When he was so angry about the company party thing I had to ask my coworker about it because I didn't trust his reaction to it....he's just over the top, I can't think of any other way to describe it. And it always felt like he stayed mad longer than me...first of all, it was usually him being mad at me, so especially later in our M, I simply just waited for him to come around.

Quote:
The best part is you used past tense when saying you loved your H, so do you love him or the idea of keeping the family together?


There are definitely things I love ABOUT him. And I would do anything to keep our family together. I will not continue to give away my love to someone who's clearly said we won't be a couple again. I might have self respect issues but even I can see how self defeating that would be.

Quote:
If you keep apologizing it will have no effect whatsoever.


Exactly. One of the folks here at one point asked where my humility was regarding the mistakes I've made. I've been living in it for years....I've only just recently decided to make steps past it. I know it's hard to see the long term vision of where my R has been, so I don't fault that person for asking that, but I can't keep getting dragged back there. I have to move forward.

I actually don't live near NYC, on the east coast though near VA Beach. Lots of races, beaches, WV is right around the corner with skiing and mountains and white water rafting. Tons of things to do around here, no complaints there. Just need a female friend or two to do them with!


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
bhappy2 #2799198 07/03/18 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Please put a signature on your thread.


I've struggled with this a bit as I'm not sure what to say. There's been no BD, we are not separated, there was never a ILYBINILWY statement, no PA/EA in our current situation and I don't really know who the WAS is....him for emotionally leaving? Or me for considering physically leaving??

It's all very confusing to me. But I will continue to think about it and come up with something.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
marina7 #2799199 07/03/18 02:17 AM
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Thanks for stopping by my thread Marina. It sounds like you've been through a very emotionally difficult situation. I think it takes time, distance and experience to be able to understand all the things that have happened in a long term R. I have been with H since I was 17 so I don't know anything else, I have no frame of reference. And if we ever separate, I have a feeling I would easier see what others see. But in my current situation, all I know is what I know, and I know it doesn't feel right and it certainly doesn't feel good but I still can't quite label it anything.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799207 07/03/18 02:31 AM
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Cadet, if you see this post...I saw you mention on another thread that you can get old posts back. How far back can you go? I posted here 14.5 years ago after my indiscretion and I would love to get those threads back.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799220 07/03/18 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
Cadet, if you see this post...I saw you mention on another thread that you can get old posts back. How far back can you go? I posted here 14.5 years ago after my indiscretion and I would love to get those threads back.

They are likely purged, however what was your username?


Me-70, D37,S36
Cadet #2799221 07/03/18 02:58 AM
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I believe it was heatherg-I used my real name then.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799224 07/03/18 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
I believe it was heatherg-I used my real name then.

Here are all your posts still on the system

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=7705


Me-70, D37,S36
Cadet #2799228 07/03/18 03:06 AM
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Wow. Scared to read these. Thank you.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
Cadet #2799230 07/03/18 03:08 AM
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Hi Helena, your sitch is very different than the standard WAS BDs, I think its the standstill that is slowly eating you away. Like the others I do think physical separation will bring perspective to both you and H. You might realize the MR needs saved by and both be ready to put the work in or one of you may decide the separation should be permanent. But you will be putting things in action that you may not be able to undo. Are you ready to do this or would you rather wait as is and let time be the decider ?

HelenaJ #2799252 07/03/18 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
Wow. Scared to read these. Thank you.

It looks like by my calculations that you have 1158 posts (give or take) on the system out of the 1543 from that username.

That actually surprised me that so many were still here.

It includes your first thread from 2005.

Good luck reading them all.


Me-70, D37,S36
arsh18 #2799258 07/03/18 04:13 AM
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I'm afraid I may never get there Arshi. At some point I feel like I'm going to have to force myself. I feel like I've taken some steps in that direction already, done some things I can't go back from, letting this situation be fully what it is. I feel like eventually my life will stare back at me in such a way that I'll know I have to go. I hope so anyway, I just want some peace.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
Cadet #2799262 07/03/18 04:16 AM
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This is truly amazing Cadet. I had asked Virginia for these back in early 2015 and she told me they were no longer available. I feel like the universe wanted me to have these back today as it was a total coincidence that I saw your post on Matt's thread about getting old posts back.

I'm about to on a trip down memory lane and I have a feeling I'm not going to like it. I miss the people that helped me so much the first time around!


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799278 07/03/18 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
This is truly amazing Cadet. I had asked Virginia for these back in early 2015 and she told me they were no longer available. I feel like the universe wanted me to have these back today as it was a total coincidence that I saw your post on Matt's thread about getting old posts back.

I'm about to on a trip down memory lane and I have a feeling I'm not going to like it. I miss the people that helped me so much the first time around!

Just for the record the post on Matts thread was totally different than this.

His posts are stored away in a safe place because someone was stalking him.

Yours have been here the whole time just no one looked for them.

Sorry Virginia gave you that answer but sorry to say her tech abilities are well I better not say! smile


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Cadet #2799330 07/03/18 08:12 AM
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Re-reading these threads has been incredible. Incredible that so many things are the same, incredible how so many things are different, incredible that I'd forgotten some of the excellent advice I'd been given, incredible at how much I miss some of those folks and wonder how things turned out for them.

Still sooooo many posts to read but I am in awe. I actually sounded stronger then in so many ways. I've cried a lot, laughed a few times. Feels surreal to re-read memories and plays of events that I had forgotten and thought were gone forever. Things I can't even believe I would ever forget.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799333 07/03/18 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
I actually sounded stronger then in so many ways.


i have made this observation in my almost 3.5 years following the situations on this board... LBSs tend to cycle... they come here, read advice, start to apply it... in some cases, they see early results, and then they cave... they give in to WWS or WAS... and they no longer follow the advice, and WWS or WAS pulls away again... then the LBS comes back here, seeking advice, tips, etc... applies it... and cycles... and each time he or she comes back, he or she is weaker... i saw it quite notably in PsySara, Cherry and Chris--as well as in others... it's maddening as an observer...

--mis dos centavos...

artista #2799385 07/03/18 11:38 AM
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so much is the same as it was , but we had a pretty good 7 years before the company party thing happened and I was overall happy and accepting of the things I couldnt change. We all have those things in our M I think and ive accepted that my M is a little more challenging than most and I was doing ok. To be back in this position, this many years later is, just wow. On my old threads someone joked my then S4 might have a beard by the time H gets his act together. It was funny then. Now S4 is S17 and he has a beard and its not so funny frown

Still reading through everything.

Last edited by Cadet; 07/03/18 11:55 AM.

M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799414 07/03/18 03:03 PM
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Helena, (yes we now know your real name) you have given us so much more to read... ugh...lol... hope you are doing well tonight.

Have you forgiven yourself yet? Do you go to IC by yourself. I cannot tell you how important this was for me.

Please post more GAL stuff asap. Make plans and follow through.


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
bhappy2 #2799553 07/04/18 01:59 PM
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It is a longtime to spend in a loveless M Helena, if that is how you feel it has been, obviously you would be the better judge of it. In your heart you need to know you gave it your best shot, you made a mistake well hello you are human. Holding the guilt over you and punishing you by withholding love and compassion makes him just as much at fault. Bhappy has a good question for you, have you forgiven yourself? Do you think that you should be forgiven and hold H responsible if he has not done so?
- arshi

arsh18 #2799562 07/04/18 03:03 PM
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Sorry you guys, I will respond specifically tomorrow. I have been reading these old threads nonstop, I am in disbelief. I feel like im reading about someone else except I remember it all like it was yesterday! My H was horribly abusive to me and everyone tried to tell me that and I just wouldnt see it. Bc like V says once you know it you cant unknow it and I still wanted to be with him so I couldnt know it. I am an emotional wreck right now, reading this stuff has been so hard but I cant stop!


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2799584 07/04/18 11:22 PM
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Helena- don't beat yourself up. Practice self care. My prayers are with you.


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

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I am sorry for where you are now Helena. Like bhappy says, have you forgiven yourself? You cant go on carrying that guilt from the past. It gives fuel to all of the aftermath.

Stay strong Helena


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
HelenaJ #2799623 07/05/18 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: HelenaJ
My H was horribly abusive to me and everyone tried to tell me that and I just wouldnt see it.


i am so glad you said that... i have followed your situation this time around, and offered my two cents here and there... i came to a place where i could no longer offer my two cents because you and maybe one or two others would not take it for what it's worth--two cents... and honestly, i felt real anxiety reading your posts about your situation and reading your responses to those trying to help you...

during your current situation, i have come to regard your H as a horrible, awful person... and really, you do not need to hear that from me... he is your H and the father of your children... but reading your thread from several years ago, i now see your H as even more awful and horrible... he is not healthy, and now neither are you... and i know you think your children are not touched by your dysfunction, but they are... you really can't compartmentalize how your H treats you and his marriage, and how he treats his children... it all connects somehow... you cannot see it... but you will, eventually...

--artista--who is still hoping you will choose a healthy you, sooner rather than letting one more day go by, because do you really want to be here, in this same situation 9 years from now? that is what you are looking at... mis dos centavos... adelante...

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Helena- Haven't heard from you in a while - just wondering is everything ok?


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

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Helena, wow that's crazy you found your old threads! If I were you, I'd ask myself if I want to let another ten years pass and be reading your current threads and still nothing has changed? Hopefully after your son graduates you can make changes to get relief for yourself. Perhaps you can keep planning for that time and preparing yourself to be independent again so you'll be ready when the time comes.

HelenaJ #2801135 07/13/18 07:40 PM
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Would really like an update...


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
bhappy2 #2801193 07/14/18 03:38 AM
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Im sorry you guys, I am SO engrossed in these threads. There are soooo many posts and ive been all over the emotional map reading them. I still have three whole threads to get through....but I think its safe to say that reading them has changed my perspective pretty significantly. Have any of you read any of them? I would imagine its too much of a time investment.
My days are still going by much as they were before. Still no interactions with H. I have my gun class next Saturday. After I finish reading I will need you guys. And I really appreciate you checking up on me.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2801194 07/14/18 04:10 AM
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I have some free time tonight and I will continue reading the old threads.


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
HelenaJ #2801867 07/17/18 11:09 PM
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Well I finally finished reading them all. Reading it all back allowed me to see it all so much clearer. And to read again the advice that people have and hear what they were trying to tell me was so surreal because I can see now so much more clearly than I could then.

The crazy part is that I underwent so much personal growth, learned so much and broke some really unhealthy patterns. But when this thing happened at my company party, I was right back emotionally where I was before, like none of my growth had ever occurred! If I look back at the tone of my posts when I first started this thread, it could have been the same girl that started those threads back in 2005!! Rereading that advice and those thoughtful conversations and hearing and seeing my own growth take place over those three or four years was nothing short of amazing.

I will post a current update soon. And bhappy, no worries on reading the old threads unless you find them personally helpful to you. It was a HUGE time investment.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2802867 07/21/18 05:53 PM
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H, how are you doing? Please give us an update.


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
bhappy2 #2803569 07/25/18 09:49 PM
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Hi bhappy, thanks for checking in on me. I'm doing ok, some days are good but most are just ok and then of course some also suck. I'm also not 100% certain that my H doesn't know about this site and it makes me hesitant to post too much. Maybe it doesn't even matter.

We're still in limbo, and do not interact but the other night I got a really weird text out of the blue. He said:
"You have been tracking my phone. You are sick. You are the one with a suspect history. I have done nothing to warrant this. I researched why my battery was dying so fast. Guess why? It's constantly sending out a signal. I should be tracking your phone, but I respect your privacy even though I shouldn't. I am so pissed. You have ruined our marriage and continue to play the victim. What have I done to you other than try to make it work time after tie that you disrespected our marriage and crushed me. My blood is boiling. Just yesterday you said I should get my battery checked. What right do you have with your history? You need to do some internal reflection. I guess you need to find something on me to justify your destruction of your marriage. But guess what, it is not happening. I have done NOTHING. Nor will I. I have desire to. I am not like you."

You guys, I am not tracking his phone. At first I didn't even know what he meant, still not sure I do. The text came in at like 4am, he was still up drinking and I happened to be awake enough to feel the text come through on my watch and so I read it. I immediately got up because I was like WTH? He was outside and I told him I am not tracking his phone and I don't even know what he means by that. He said "Oh you don't track the kids phones?" So maybe he's talking about location? I thought maybe he was talking about tracking what he does ON his phone. Anyway, I said yes I track their phones but they have to voluntarily share their location with me?! I said "I don't even know what to say except that I am not tracking your phone and I don't care what you do. We are not a couple anymore."

Anyways, our R is very, very sick. When I read back through my old threads, I could see it much more clearly. I feel really guilty for my part in the downfall and that guilt and shame has kept me in a position where I take more responsibility than belongs to me. I can see that now. I don't know that H ever will as he consistently maintains that everything is my fault, I am sick, he's done nothing, etc. It's like a broken record at this point.

I went to my handgun class last Saturday and it was really good for me, I learned a lot and am now comfortable taking my gun out of the safe and unloading/reloading it. I will be going back to the range for a few practice sessions before I take the next class because I am still not entirely comfortable with the grip and it takes me too long to get it right. I'm terrified of slide bite bc I'm a big baby so I take a long time making sure my grip is right lol.

We are headed to our hometown for a family vacation toward the end of next week. I have a lot of anxiety about it but until I am ready to tell the kids about this mess, they don't understand why we wouldn't do what we always do, which is go on our usual vacation. Plus my Mom still lives there and she is getting so unhealthy, I just don't know how many more summers she will be around so it's very important for them to see her. I have adapted to our "situation" in our surroundings and in our usual routine. When we go outside of that, it is typically very very hard for me to cope with. So, I am expecting to have to repress and hide a lot of emotions until we can get back home. Ugh.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2803707 07/26/18 04:56 PM
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Helena, sounds like your husband was too drunk to know what he was talking about. I'd just dismiss him and not engage if I were you. You're brave to take a handgun class! I hope that becomes a good hobby for you. I hope the family vacation goes as well as expected. Perhaps you can spend time with your mom and it'll help take your mind off everything. I know the challenge of repressing your emotions. That happened on our last family trip last summer before my husband announced another separation. It's hard to enjoy any trip under these circumstances but your mom will be so happy to see you and your kids!

HelenaJ #2803709 07/26/18 05:02 PM
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It almost sounds like he is coming up with anything to make this seem like your fault, so that he doesn't feel as bad. My exF is doing the same thing.

I've also been thinking about taking a concealed carry class. Just for fun. I don't even own a gun. :-)


Me: 35
XFiance: 40
Kids: 3 (His, Mine, Ours)
HelenaJ #2803987 07/28/18 01:48 PM
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Helena, I hope your vacation back home turns out well. Take the time to enjoy your mom while she is still around. Be thankful to be around friends and family and soak in all the LOVE that everybody gives you. If you can -consider it a time to recharge. BTW I myself was closest to my mom and took care of her when she was very sick - enjoy those moments. I often replay them just to remember her. Anyways, I hope all of it works out to your benefit. Blessings!


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

HelenaJ #2803992 07/28/18 02:10 PM
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Nicole, I pretty much did dismiss it bc I think you're right. It was just another drunken text telling me how sick and terrible I am. I acknowledged it in the moment and told him I'm not tracking his phone. It hasn't been discussed since. Personally, I'd be embarrassed, but that's me.

MMM12, H is very much in the assigning blame phase and I do believe he'll spend the rest of his life there. At this point, I'm questioning more what HE would have to do in order to ever get this R back on track. He's been so cruel and I'm not sure he's capable of love in the same way most of us give and receive it. He's absolutely a covert and introverted narcissist although I don't say that often bc people like to try to argue against it. Plus there's really no need to label him, he is what he is.

The handgun class was definitely good for me, if you have any interest in it, you should definitely try it. It takes your mind off of everything else bc you have to be fully present in what you're doing. When H and I went through problems many years ago, I took a karate class and made it to green belt. It was the same type of thing, you have to be fully present so you just forget everything else. I quit when H and I reconciled bc we started building a house and then I got pregnant.

H spends his days using an incredible amount of energy to be upbeat and happy, 99% of the time I feel like his parenting is simply to manipulate the kids and/or to put on a show in front of me. He absolutely must be the preferred parent at all times and if there is a flicker that perhaps he is not, he will step up gifts/affection/etc. I often wonder what he would be like and how he would act if I wasn't here. Last night I was sitting on the couch with S6 and he wanted H to come cuddle him also, so H sits on the end of the couch and pulls S6 all the way toward him. A few minutes later I got up and went into the bedroom. I just can't stand being around him, I really can't.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
LoneWlf #2803994 07/28/18 02:37 PM
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LW, Nicole, I will definitely make the best out of the trip. My best friend still lives there and we are staying on one of the Great Lakes so we'll be right on the water and the kids can swim. These are the moments I'd live for, before.

Journaling:
After reading all my old threads and really looking at the things H has said to me....I'm not really sure these boards are where I belong. I am not willing to do anything to "save" my M. My M is not worth saving frankly. The disrespect and contempt runs so deep, it cannot be dealt with unless both parties have a come to Jesus moment. I want to save it for our children but I simply can't do it by myself, it will take both of us no question. The light he sees me in is not who I am and I don't know who it is. It's made me feel completely crazy at times and I question myself over and over, maybe he's right. But when I read back my old threads, I see it's just more of the same. He's not right. I was a young girl trying to deal with very real issues. My H was an alcoholic even though when I read back I see that I could not bring myself to classify him as such. Everyone tried to tell me to go to Alanon, one person even got so frustrated with me that she left my thread because I made excuses not to go an excuses for everything. They were right of course but I was worried he'd think I was crazy. No doubt he would have. But he thought that anyway. I never went. Then we had kids and H put 95% of his focus on our S (now S17) and 3% of his focus on D (now D15) and 2% of his focus on me (which is when we were having sex). H has never admitted any wrongdoing that might have contributed to the downfall of our M. And we've been together 26 years. It's all me. He calls me delusional, sick, selfish, etc. and I always believed he thought that....and in order for him to think that, I must be doing things so very wrong and just look at all the wrong things I've done....no one else would have done the things I've done, what is wrong with me? And I would read books and come here and beg people to tell me what's wrong with me so I can fix it and our M can be happy again. And it all has to be things that are within my power bc H will not budge.....so the changing, the fixing, the willingness to admit wrong, all of it, it has to be something I can do on my own....couldn't someone just tell me how to fix it??
But when I read my old threads, he said all these same things to me back then too and I can see now that H doesn't say these things to me because he believes them. He says these things to me so that I will believe them. If I believe those things about myself, then H can be superior, he can dominate and control and use shame to keep me in my place whenever I start to remember who I am.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2804001 07/28/18 04:29 PM
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This board is not just to try and save marraiges, its to save us. The M being saved would only be a bonus. We have one life to live. I have read most of your old threads, no deserves to be treated the way your H treated you. Yes it takes two to make things work.

H, start doing things for you and your children, no one here condones D but sometimes it really is warranted.


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
HelenaJ #2804039 07/29/18 01:44 AM
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You need some space Helena to breathe and think things through. To really understand from deep inside what it is that you really need. Hope you have a vacation with the kids, make the most of it - arshi

arsh18 #2804085 07/29/18 05:47 PM
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I agree I need some space. Here's what I would LOVE to say. "H, the way things are between you and I is not healthy It's not healthy for either of us to live like this and I don't believe it's healthy for our kids to witness it either. I would like to move out and I will continue to pay half of the mortgage, the children's daycare expenses, their medical and all of S17's graduation gift (a trip to Europe). I want 50/50 shared custody and would love to have a positive coparenting relationship with you, similar to what we have now."

That's what I want. I think it's totally fair and would give us all some room to breathe. But in March when I tried to tell him that I was going to move out, he told me it was child abuse, that I was going to eff up our kids, that I was so sick to put my own happiness before our children's, that I was crossing a line I could not cross back from, that if I could do this I was a far worse person than he ever believed I could be, etc. He threatens me and intimidates me and it works. So here I am. Still. If I leave, I have to be prepared to D. And that's just a really scary and hard thing to contemplate. It seems so unfair to feel like my only choices are to stay like this or completely rip the family apart. But alas, those are my choices, as dictated by H.

Our 18th wedding anniversary was Friday. We are too far gone to acknowledge but it reminded me of our anniversary last year when I could feel all of this coming. H didn't acknowledge our anniversary and I remember going for a walk with him (nothing special, he was getting in his fitbit steps and I tagged along, ha) and I cried and told him how hurtful it was. He remembered, he just didn't acknowledge. There is a big difference there. He said something like "we're just so busy" or something but never tried to comfort me or make me feel better. That was one of the pivotal moments for me in realizing that I was being an idiot by hoping things would just miraculously change for the better. The next big thing was when he refused to let me take S17 to a concert. H made all kinds of excuses not to go so I was going to take S17 instead and H purposely sabotaged it by not picking up the little two when he was supposed to. When I talked to him about it later he said "We never discussed you taking S17" and I was like why do we need to "discuss it", what is there to discuss? He said something to the effect of he didn't want me putting S17 in a bad spot bc I could start talking and flirting with other guys and he will protect S17's heart even more than his own. I was like what?? The third big thing was when H sent me a text about "being interested", meaning he wanted to ML and I just felt a million miles away from him and I texted him back saying I just felt to emotionally distant to do that right now and he said he didn't feel that way but understood. Never came into the bedroom or cared that I felt that way, all that mattered to him was that he didn't feel that way. Then the fourth and final thing that happened where I just knew we couldn't go on was when I was making a very important job change. I am the primary breadwinner in our home, although H makes a good income. Even still, we could not afford the life we have without my income. So this job change was important to me, but more importantly, it was a big deal for our family and thus, if for no other reason than that, it should have been a big deal for him. My boss that I had worked for for 7 years had become increasingly abusive to the staff and although I was lucky enough to be mostly immune, I was sick of witnessing it. I was lucky enough to have two job offers to choose from, both at my current salary. H just couldn't be bothered to talk about it, whenever I'd try, he'd act uninterested or let the kids interrupt, etc. I remember mentioning that if this is the way things are between us, why, why do we bother?? No response from him. At that moment, as I made the decision on my own and transitioned into a new job on my own I knew I was just fed up. It's been 8 months since then and we haven't been intimate in almost a year. I wanted to wait until S17 graduates to bring up separation but now I'm freaking out about him going through his parents separating right as he goes off to college when he should be focusing on his own new journey. Maybe I should back it up a little in order to give him some time to get used to things before he leaves, maybe like after Christmas. I just don't know.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2804089 07/29/18 06:36 PM
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Helena - after reading your last post I sense a lot of raw emotions. I also sense confusion as to what your contemplated next steps should be. I strongly encourage you to pause- breathe - take some time to let your emotions subside before making any rash decisions. I too feel at times angered, hurt, frustrated and confused. It is at these moments I try to step away from the sitch - breathe and try to move forward cautiously.I hope this helps! Please know I am here to support you ! Blessings!


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

LoneWlf #2804090 07/29/18 07:05 PM
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LW, thanks. I dont know how people can make these decisions and not be raw and confused. I dont understand the WASs here, I never will. Given my tendency to put up with way more than I should, to take way more blame than I should and to continue to love someone I probably shouldnt, Im afraid im going to have to force myself bc I dont think ill ever be ready or ever know for sure. At some point I feel like ill have to make myself go. Or else ill be 50 and still in the same situation.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2804161 07/30/18 03:22 PM
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Helena, you're trapped in a lot of ways and there doesn't seem to be any easy way out. If you can find a way to avoid your husband and reduce the abuse episodes, and if there's no physical abuse, then waiting for your son to graduate seems like it'll benefit him. Your son has enough to handle at this stage in his life and a lot of change coming as he prepares to move out. That might be the best plan of action but it may not help alleviate your mental anguish though. It may be hard to appreciate the little bit if stability that remains in your home right now, but you may appreciate it someday because this might be the last year that your family is together. Perhaps you can think of ways to make the best of it. I see you still have little kids too - it's important to think what's best for them. Another ten or twelve years in a home with one parent who abuses the other and parents who have no functioning relationship, or two homes with parents who move on separately to rebuild their lives. It's an important question for all of us who have little kids and have ability to choose.

NicoleR #2805237 08/05/18 10:02 PM
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Checking in from the shores of Lake Huron. Vacation has been bittersweet as I knew it would be, so nothing unexpected.
Times like this, in our hometown where there is lots of history and we have full days to spend with our children, it would be obvious if there were a chance of reconciliation. Instead it's obvious that there isn't.

H


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2805242 08/05/18 10:19 PM
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Hang in there. Enjoy the vacation as much as you can. We are pulling for you.


W 34 Me 42
Married 7 years together 8
0 kids 1 beloved dog
BD 4/6/2018
I moved out 4/7/2018
I moved back in alone 8/05/2018
I file 3/06/2019
D official 5/7/2019
HelenaJ #2805250 08/05/18 10:55 PM
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Helena, things aren't always obvious. Your feeling of hopelessness reminded of this, it may be dumb and it may just make you laugh, but I'm posting it here b/c it did something for me when I was/am feeling similar...

Ended up on a crossroad
Try to figure out which way to go
It's like you're stuck on a treadmill
Running in the same place
You got your hazard lights on now
Hoping that somebody would slow down
Praying for a miracle
Who'll show you grace?
Had a couple dollars and a quarter tank of gas
With a long journey ahead
Seen a truck pull over
God sent an angel to help you out
He gave you direction
Showed you how to read a map
With a long journey ahead
Said it ain't over
Oh, even in the midst of doubt


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
HelenaJ #2806451 08/12/18 07:28 PM
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H, Just wondering how you are doing?


M:52 W:49
D:26 S:24 S:23 D:20
ILYBNILWY 5/28/17
Still living together
W filed 1/5/18
W moved out 8/24/18
D final 9/18/20
HelenaJ #2806683 08/14/18 02:42 AM
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Thanks you guys for the words of encouragement and for checking in on me. We are home from vacation and back to work. Im doing ok, detaching quite a bit. Decided to get involved in my sorority alumnae club, going to the annual meeting this Sunday. Other than that, I have a lot of intense emotions that come and go but words escape me. I just dont seem to want to talk about it. Im not sure what that means.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2806710 08/14/18 10:29 AM
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Welcome back H, Good to see you are getting out and involved with your sorority one more thing to keep you occupied.
I too struggle with these intense emotions mostly between sadness and anger. I try to let my anger fuel me to do better in what I do - sometimes it helps. I know we have a long way to go but we have to remain steady and positive. my prayers are with you and your family. Blessings.


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

HelenaJ #2806920 08/15/18 02:43 AM
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Helena, I think we all have periods of feeling disaffected because we get so burned out from feeling bad all the time. I hope as you detach you're able to also gain a new perspective about your situation and see it in a different light. Perhaps seeing it more from a distance will help you to better plan how to proceed after your son graduates.

NicoleR #2806951 08/15/18 11:32 AM
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Hi Nicole. I certainly hope that detaching will help me see things from a new perspective. I'm doing fairly well with it, most of what he does or says doesn't concern me. The one thing that continues to be very difficult for me is actually having to be the one to initiate a separation. I'm very concerned that my kids will see that and think that I am the one who doesn't want our life. And the way that H has framed it all is so very difficult. If I choose anything other than to stay, I am putting my own happiness above my children's, which is of course not something a Mom would typically choose to do. I am really struggling with this, I don't know how I would be able to deal with their emotions if they were negative toward me. My kids are my reason for everything, especially now that there is no M left. So can anyone tell me how I can possibly shatter their lives? This will always be the hardest part for me and from where I sit now, I can't see what my future looks like because I don't know that I will ever be able to tell them that I am leaving their father.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2806953 08/15/18 11:41 AM
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Oh and bhappy, if youre reading, I think I am going to do a 5k in Sept 1 with S17 and following your lead with no alcohol until after that. I drank enough on vacation anyway grin


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2806984 08/15/18 02:21 PM
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If I choose anything other than to stay, I am putting my own happiness above my children's, which is of course not something a Mom would typically choose to do. I am really struggling with this, I don't know how I would be able to deal with their emotions if they were negative toward me. My kids are my reason for everything, especially now that there is no M left. So can anyone tell me how I can possibly shatter their lives?

Hello Helena, One of the things I feel very strongly about is that once you have kids you forfeit the right to play the " me first - me only card" You always have to put the kids first -they never asked for this. For my sitch as you have been following my S doesn't want any interactions with W. I have tried to facilitate but I now know to stay out of the way. My S has only visited my W place once for a meal where he said he doesn't even remember how his mom looks because he did not want to look her in the eye. For me that would be the ultimate rejection and having to live with out interaction from my S would result in slow painful death. I do not have an answer but pray that you and your family find a peaceful solution for you all. Blessings!


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

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LW, I dont disagree with you about not getting to play the me first card when you have children. Actually, I dont think ones life is lived in the most fulfilled way by putting me first in general, but thats just my opinion. There are sort of two different mes....the sort of outside one which should be as unselfish as possible, but there is also the internal one that needs to be protected and this is the self I mean when I say, for instance, I need to be true to myself. Does that make sense?? Circumstances would have to be pretty extreme for me to agree with someone leaving their marriage when they have kids. I view my circumstances as pretty extreme and I dont see myself as insisting on being first (even though I do believe spouses should place one another first). My H has already left the M and knowing that has made it next to impossible to back to living as a happy family the way we once were. I have a lot of guilt for not being able to ignore what I know and somehow get back to where we were. But I am human and I just cant pretend and it has nothing to do with a need to be first or even a need to be happy. Its more of a need to LIVE, period and be true to that inner me that says there is something very wrong with the way my H is treating me. As for the atmosphere inside the home, H and I have a lot of power struggles about anything and everything that I might have an opinion about and my R with my children is also very heavily influenced by H. Even still though, if H said hed had a change of heart or wanted to try again or wanted to go to counseling or showed any signs of wanting to R, I would. But short of that, how does one proceed in this situation?


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2807058 08/15/18 04:58 PM
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Helena,

I appreciate your latest post. And it read like a open, honest stream of consciousness. It was very heartfelt and I think you captured what a lot of posters think and feel.

But I approach life in a pretty simple way.

1) ALWAYS do the right thing.
2) When tempted to do the wrong thing, see rule #1.

I feel that today too many people do what they want to do. Or they do things because they think others want them to do it. Or they do it in order to manipulate someone else. This board is FULL of people struggling with these tendencies.

I adhere to the above for one simple reason....because doing the right thing is the right thing to do.

This is what I aspire to. I make mistakes. I stumble. I fall. I sin. I am not perfect, but that philosophy is what I strive for every day and every minute.

Because when you do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, and for no other reason, everything else falls into place. (Please note, this doesn't guarantee a problem free life!)


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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Thanks for posting. If only we knew for certain what the right thing is in difficult circumstances. Some right things are always right and never change regardless of circumstances, but those are like the Ten Commandments ha. Much else in life is grey and open to interpretation. I think honoring our vows and having at least a healthy interacting family, if not happy or healthy marriage, is still the right thing and I would choose that if I could. But I dont think we can get back there. Im not going anywhere, there is still time for him to change his mind. I dont think he will, but nonetheless, there is time. Much like you did with the one year timeline you set for yourself, I am waiting with the end in mind. As H and I drift farther and farther apart, our interactions become more and more strained and we are struggling, even as a family. Im not sure that I believe anymore that staying together as we are is best for the kids, we are simply deteriorating and there’s no other way to put it. That is why the marriage is the foundation of the family. Without it, well, I guess you become us. Our dynamic is sad, weird, tense, harsh, and most of all extremely unfortunate bc it doesnt have to be this way.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2807200 08/16/18 03:27 AM
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Helena, I think your plan of action should depend a lot on the level of abuse you endure with your husband and whether he abuses the kids. If the house is generally peaceful (like no shouting, verbal insults, physical violence, etc..) and the kids are happy and thriving with both parents then you may be better off waiting indefinitely to separate. If your husband is bullying everyone in the house though, including yourself, and the overall dynamic is negative and everyone feels afraid, then you and the kids might both be better off leaving.

Another consideration is how separating or divorcing will affect you and your kids financially and logistically. Is it a practical option? Will you be able to maintain your kids standard of living when they're with you?

Finally there's the question of whether you plan to start dating right away and seek to re-marry. If so then you may wish to think how that will affect your kids and also consider the risks of starting over with someone new who will have their own baggage and flaws. If you don't plan to date or re-marry then there's no pressure for you to divorce quickly for that reason.

Some of your misery might be reduced as you further build your own new life right within your current home. You can probably do a lot of things like the sorority alumni group to stay busy and active so maybe that'll help, but the key factor seems to be whether your husband is an abuser and if you need to separate for the welfare of yourself and the kids.

NicoleR #2807248 08/16/18 12:49 PM
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Please start a new thread. You've reached the 100 posting/reply limit for this one. Thanks!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
HelenaJ #2807653 08/17/18 11:11 PM
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Hi Helena, probably this thread will be locked before getting my message through. Just wanted to say, keep strong I know how hard it is and you have been at it for really so long. Living through physical separation, I can tell you one thing. It is good for you and absolutely not good for the kids in my opinion, unless of course there is a screaming match between the parents every day and there is no peace, it is always better for kids to have both the parents together. Contemplate on what you need for yours and their happiness, whatever you decide we know you would have done for the best. Hugs.

HelenaJ #2808229 08/22/18 03:07 PM
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Helena- Just checking in to see how you are doing? Hope all is well- keep us posted. Blessings!


M51 w50
T-20Yrs M-16Yrs
S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up
1 Awesum dog
BD 10/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

LoneWlf #2808443 08/23/18 04:13 PM
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Thank you guys for checking in, I will start a new thread tonight.


M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
HelenaJ #2809293 08/28/18 01:19 AM
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Last edited by HelenaJ; 08/28/18 01:20 AM.

M: 43, H: 44
Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs
S17, D15, D8, S6
Still living in MH
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