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Gerda Offline OP
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Gordie, I have prayed about this a lot. Not your request specifically, but about how powerful my testimony could be for others to hear. I feel called to tell my story, I do. But somehow I don't think I can do it yet. It is a very long story, for one thing. I would like to just tell it to someone and have it recorded; writing it is a whole other ballgame but I will try to do a short version some day soon. Thank you for the encouragement.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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RESTORED POSTING FOR GERDA

I was thinking of what Gordie said about music last night. It was the usual sad show at my house so I jumped in the car with D9 at 9 pm and raced across town to the fireworks, thinking alright, if these idiot men I live with wont do anything fun, I dont have to wait around, and we made it across town, found a parking spot and ran to the river, we sat on the grass with the breeze off the water and the lights of the city and everyone happy and in unison about something beautiful and all the boats passing. I felt so strongly that I was at least making a beautiful memory for D9, and then this song came on on the way home with my on-last-legs car chugging its way back across town. I blasted it and started singing along though I had never heard it before, and I felt like God heard my heart bleeding just exactly as I want to be understood. You have to listen to this song, it is the story we are living. If you google this phrase, I think you will go right to it. Flora Cash Youre Somebody Else Lyrics. This song is for all of us LBSers!

Last edited by job; 07/05/18 09:32 AM. Reason: removed numerical identifiers for special characters

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Gerda Offline OP
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I have been thinking about the whole active listening thing that we've been talking about over on Faceman's thread and a few others. I was trying to think of how I don't feel I am able to do this as well as I would like and trying to figure out why.

Part of it is that my H disappears a lot, even when present he is not present, and often he will not talk at all.

Other times he talks a lot.

But generally I have found that if I have any conversation with him that lasts more than 3 minutes, it will always always turn to his obsession with money and the idea that I am keeping him in poverty. I will not go into an explanation of that here as it is the subject of many of my posts.

But what I realized is that because of our terrible financial situation, and his belief that all of his problems are based on what he calls his penury, he is not able to vent anything without talking about that, and I am unable to validate it.

If he talks about his childhood or his dad or his dissertation, I am able to listen well and validate, but none of those topics ever goes far without returning to the financial one. Likewise I find myself unable to validate anything he says about God though I am able to not answer most of the time.

I wonder if there is a way for me to practice this kind of validating in my situation. I know all our spouses say a lot of insane things that we have to just take in and validate, but the financial one in my case would so completely destroy my life and my kids' lives were it to be played out that I guess I am afraid to validate any of it.

I wonder what advice my friends out there in LBS land will have, especially Gordie, DnJ, SBJ and Marvin F who seem to be able to understand and do this validating thing very well. I don't know if you need a more specific example of the kinds of things my H says in order to be able to weigh in.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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First your song made it to my playlist so thank you

Second not sure I am one to give validating advice

My d b coach told me

When I fight with her it makes her hold on to her position all the stronger as she really wants to win no matter how insane the argument or the game

Gerda controls me with money and is punishing me and making me live in poverty I cannot live like this anymore you say you are a Christian but Jesus did not treat people like this religion is the opium of the people and God is a fairy tale and we are going bankrupt and the bill collectors keep calling and all you do is run around like a chicken with your head cut off and why did I marry a woman like you and could I not have married a normal and sane woman to mother my children instead of this crazy religious freak

Can you just listen and look him in the eye and say nothing

And then he might say why are you looking at me like that or what are you thinking or do you not have anything to say

And then you can pause and slowly and calmly respond with kindness I am just trying to listen to you and understand what you are saying

And then stop talking and if the conversation is not over stay there actively listening open to hear more and if the conversation is clearly over than you can just leave the room

For me that is the best I can do when I cannot validate the crazy

He will know by your actions that he is being heard

I believe God wants to hear all of our rants no matter how irrational and I believe in the sacramental nature of marriage and that if your H is currently far from God the closest he can get to praying may be ranting to you and that you have the opportunity to be Jesus with skin on to him and hear his prayer not answer it but to hear it and as ciluzen says make him feel safe to be heard which in and of itself is a validating act


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Active listening is difficult at first. Learning to fully listen or read what the other person / party is saying is half of the battle. The hard part is to do that without forming your own opinion, feedback, or response until they have finished.

For example if I say 8 senstences to you and at sentence 3 you are already disagreeing and forming a response how well do you think the next 5 will be heard. Maybe sentences 7 & 8 have really good points and you would change your mind, but you cannot because you have already formed a response.

Basically that is it. It is hard work to be actively engaged like that and is not a normal way of communicating. I mean between friends you may miss a few points here and there but overall you are both on the same page. If you get into a more contentious issue or agreement - need to switch over to an engaged and focused mindset.

For H, listen to him fully then when he is done paraphrase back what he said. It will force you to listen without your voice speaking in your head, and it will confirm to H that you were listening and validate him.

One part of validation is validating or confirming the accuracy of something. We really cannot do that with the crazy bogus stuff our MLCer rant about. It is not factual.

However the other part of validation is showing recognition that their feelings or opinions are valid or worthwhile - to be heard. That we can do.

So validate what H says and feels - H, I am sorry you feel that way.

If he is more receptive to your feedback you could add to it.

H, I am sorry you feel that way, but you know that is not true. You are not living in extreme poverty, penury as you say. We have a roof over our heads, food on the table, clothes in our backs, a pretty decent financial life.

You could even remind him of the spreadsheet or financial planner appointments. I think it is best to be cautious with these, you do not want to escalate his ranting. As I said you need to see how receptive his is being at the time.

I do hope that made sense. Do not be afraid to validate him. You are acknowledging his feelings not the accuracy or truthfulness of his view.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Gerda,

Gordie and DnJ have given you excellent/sage advice. Listen, listen and listen and then repeat back to him what you have heard. Now, maybe he will contradict you a bit on what you heard, but that's okay. Don't argue w/him, just listen and validate.

We, as humans, tend to hear what we want to hear and don't always listen to the full extent of the sentences/comments that people make. It's difficult to listen and not come back w/a response before the person is finished...but we all can do this...it takes practice, but it can be done. Also, if you listen closely, sometimes you will be able to hear more than you think because they do like to tell on themselves and we just have to learn how to sift through the words.

Again, excellent advice from Gordie and DnJ!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Gerda Offline OP
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Thanks, Gordie, DnJ and Job for the active listening tips. I have not had to practice these the last couple of weeks that much because I went away with kids to my favorite place in the world for a week and had just one phone call where I had to practice that, and then he left town when we got back. It has been wonderful being on my own. I feel so free being away from the MLC darkness! I can see so clearly how badly I am treated and how I truly need to have better boundaries so that I can feel this good even when he is back. I have been practicing ignoring crazy e-mails and texts and it has been great, thank you for encouraging me and teaching me how to do that, Gordie and DnJ!

Today I got a note from H that he had fixed the washer at our mountain cabin (which is mostly used for rental income for weekenders) and restored pressure that was always not there by removing the water filter. I knew this was not a good idea but practiced what you all told me and just wrote one line saying it was great that he fixed it, and thank you so much. I figured I could wait on figuring out the need for the filter. I asked our handyman about this and he said that without a filter, our water tank will stop functioning, etc. So this will become very costly to protect his ego, and if the tank fails when a renter is there, DISASTER. If I tell H that I asked the handyman, he will get furious and go back to the usual tirade about my emasculating him. These are the kinds of things that happen where I can't just listen because the practical effect in our world affects the only income we have. I know he will not be able to go to our cabin very much once he starts teaching again, so I thought I could wait until then and just restore the water filter and he wouldn't really know.

But I am hoping you have some other ideas for me.

I want to post about all that has been happening and all my thoughts and hear your ideas about it all, but I just feel so overwhelmed at the thought of that. I wish we could just sit here at my table and have a tea or a stiff drink (maybe in the background listening to some of the music you were surprised I listen to : ) ) and talk it out that way. But maybe another day I can write more.

Praying for you all.

Last edited by Gerda; 07/18/18 04:34 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Gerda,

Why not pose a question about the filter to your h? Something like, "h, if the filter is not installed, what will happen to the tank? Will the tank stop functioning? What purpose does the filter serve in the tank? Do you think we need to look into this a bit further? If you pose questions that he can think about versus telling him, he may take the questions, mull them over and then figure out that the filter needs to be in there for a reason.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Gerda Offline OP
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Job,thank you so much for weighing in. My H is so hyper sensitive about being emasculated that I think even if I ask those questions he will get furious and say that I always undermine him and question his decisions. But maybe there is no other way to even broach the topic, and I have to try to remember to be detached no matter what he responds since I can't let this thing go so far as to require me to buy a new water tank and system just to protect his foolish ego.

I am going to try your idea unless anyone else has one! Maybe if I combine the questions with a compliment about how good he is at figuring stuff out, I can make through without too much damage!


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Gerda, men just love explaining things. smile Big secret we do that to mostly explain it to ourselves.

Ask questions that will allow H to explain how the system works, what the filter does, and why it is needed. Hopefully he will explain to you (and himself) that the filter is needed.

Job’s advice is right on the money.


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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