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Doodler,
... And the appealing bank lady friend!! wink

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Andrew,
From experience with my mother' s second marriage ( i was 12 and she was a widow),during the dating period, i had a hard time accepting it. I am not sure why and i wasn' t the only one. Most of my brothers and sisters did to. FEAR.

FEAR of "her getting hurt?", FEAR of us being put aside?", FEAR of "my father being replaced or forgotten?".. no idea but it took a long time for ALL of us to open ourselves to him. One thing i do know, he made her happy. He cared about her alot and he showed her daily.

Now, my current position in MY life with children living with me.
I have dated a little. I could not let those men for an overnight in my home. It did not feel right.

I looked for man who had potential for a long term relationship yet i am the one who would not open my entire life to them. I sabotaged myself for failure and i felt those man did not deserve my confusion. I blamed "timming", my christian beliefs (vows) and my family values (father, mother and children). I battled with my faith. I know ex-h is not a fully healthy, stable man. I do not want the "walking on egg shell" anymore. I do not want a relationship with him and i cannot give his responsabilities and obligations to anyone else.

So i am going solo.

I refere to my childhood experience alot when i think about my children. How i felt or how i saw the world at their age..

I don' t know if this help. I hope it does. Thinking of you! smile

Oh, one more thing: i do not see depression in you. I see a normal up & down expected with these latest events you have encounters.

Careful with "self-medication" and poor choices. You do not want to live on these destructive path and show your son how to handle life.

Take care Andrew! (((Hugs)))

Last edited by job; 05/25/18 08:00 AM. Reason: added spaces between paragraphs
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If you had a look at my bank account you'd know that there's nothing untoward going on. I used to always say that people should never do anything that they are reluctant to explain to their maker, their auditor or their wife. Well, I'm agnostic, my taxes are filed and I'm divorced laugh

I just have to hold myself to higher standards without the levels of accountability that I had previously. I've done reasonably well so far I think. I've always known that I will make some poor choices but I also believe that doesn't give me a license to do so. It gives me an obligation to learn from poor choices and to try better. One evening with too much wine before work the next day doesn't make a lifestyle of debauchery. Water and dill pickles tonight as is my normal practice while I catch up on the forum and get ready for the next day.

exquisitetobe - Thank you for sharing your perspective. It is a bit different from your natal experience in that both of my kids' parents are still alive as is the situation for your own children. They are I believe fully aware of their mother's circumstances and what led to it. I don't know their opinions or how they are dealing with it nor what the story they may have heard from her is. I think for your ex that the behaviour was more overt and obvious to them.

I tend to forget perhaps how they have a different perspective on all this than I do. My daughter hasn't seen her mother since the fall of 2015 when we visited her as an intact couple for Thanksgiving. My son while he's been home didn't have a front-row seat to how his mother treated me nor of her infidelity. It was a fait-acompli the first time he had to deal with it which I believe was at this past Christmas when the three of them went to visit his grandparents before they died. I expect his mother did lie to him about the relationship she has and how it started. What he believed, I don't know.

To me, their relationship with their mother and OM should be separate from their relationship with me and any potential new partner. To them, it's probably muddled. I've tried to read up a bit on it, but haven't found anything helpful for dealing with adult children. Most articles focus on protecting younger children and not confusing them.

I do get the feeling that both kids would be perfectly fine if I continued along as single Dad. Not (probably) with any expectation that their mother and I will get back together, but because it's more "normal". I could imagine them feeling threatened if I brought someone new into my life especially if it was someone younger and with kids in tow. My SIL1 and I have had some discussions on how that may be causing issues between my ex and OM and his grown kids, their spouses and the grand-kids. He has a moderately substantial estate that they would inherit whereas I have a bow-tie collection and a comfortable rocking chair. There's enough money to clear the estate and provide them with a small rememberence but that's it.

I also know that they want me to be happy. I've talked to them honestly for 2 years now about me dating. I've even talked to S23 jokingly about some of the challenges that might exist if overnights happen and how he would need to stay with a buddy. There's a difference between the hypothetical and the actual though as you well know yourself exquisitetobe.

The best thing that you and I have both learned along with others here is that there is indeed no hurry especially considering the stakes involved. Unlike what I believe happened in the case with the OM, I don't have an aching void to fill. From spending more than half my life with her, I can't imagine my ex likes being alone for the amounts of time that she is.

The only deadline of sorts that I have is that this fall one of my nephews is getting married and at some point I'll need to know if I will RSVP with one or two.

I do in some ways wish that our society wasn't structured the way that it is where the man is obliged to make the first move. It was so much easier in elementary school where your friend would pass on a note to the person you were sweet on. And no - I'm not going to give you the details of any of the people involved laugh

And now, my lunch needs to be made, dishes done. S23 is out somewhere so I'll leave the porch light on for him. I think he has a second penny ante poker game going lately.

Bon soir.


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OK Andrew, the guy doesn't make the first move!

The gal shows interest (first move) and the guy then responds. The trouble I have found is the guy is so stressed he doesn't notice the interest or then over responds or even doesn't know how.

Can I suggest that you invest in a book or two or some time on YouTube looking at dating techniques? Several guys here liked models and I personally used the for dummies book. There are even pdf copies of some books out there on this.

I decided most important for gals was flirting and for guys just ask. The gal gives you a signal, you are interested, ask! She won't if she sees you aren't responding, and yes that's not next week responding, but at the time.

OLD has such a different dynamic, it's something I may explore. But every gal on a site is in the supermarket, coffee shop, DIY store etc etc at some time or another. She works in the bank or is visiting the dentist or...........

These folk aren't hidden folk.

I go jiving, salsa, West coast swing and that is a target rich environment. Attending beginners classes is fun and teaches a new skill. It's so fun.

Go out have fun and get dating. Know the signals.

V


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V 64, WAW


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Thanks V.

One thing I like about "the old fashioned way" is that it does give you a chance to get to know people without pressure. All of the women who are on my potential date list have known me for at least 2 and in some cases nearly 15 years. They know who I am when I'm not trying to be "sparkly" and it's probably the same guy now that I'm single.

The lady from the flower shop I probably won't see for the next month. I think she's having baby-sitter issues but you never know. Hopefully the lady at the bank will have the fresh baking she's promised me - yum.

Back in early 2017 I did ask the lady at the flower shop out and she originally said yes but then backed away from that saying that her life was "too complicated". Our interactions never changed. I like that and I expect she does too. At the time even though I knew I wasn't ready I was afraid to let a chance to get to know a very lovely lady slip from my grasp. She was pretty obviously (even to me) interested and I believe was being actively encouraged by her co-workers which included her mother all of whom vetted me with questions and conversations.

What I know now to be true is that it is a big wide wonderful world out there full of fabulous people. Some who may seem to be a good match may pass me by on my road but one may not. Jack 3 Beans wrote to me a long time ago when we discussed the odds and how they were low. I made the effort to go back and find his exact words - because they were so powerful and also so applicable at any point in my journey and are probably true for each and every one of us.
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
So about that pride thing.

Here is my horrible secret.

Cavet first.

I was going to be a better person no matter the outcome of this. I knew it. Even if she didn't come out of her MLC...I would be great.

Here is the horrible pride part.

I had a saying I used often. I'm not certain if I am going to say it 100% correctly.

Whether it is a 1 in 100 chance of saving your marriage or a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance of saving your marriage it doesn't matter the end number, what matters is the first number.
Be the 1.

My sin was knowing that I would be the 1. That was my pride.

Let it be yours.
I do still believe that I was my ex-wife's 1 best choice and who knows, maybe she will know that one day too. That ship has sailed. However I know myself to be a darned good choice for other people as well and that my ex isn't the 1 best choice for me. Perhaps she never was. Dunno. I can hope though that one day my own "one best choice" and I will sail alongside each other. More and more I'm getting open to that happening.

Since I'm copying my Monty Python collection at the moment ...

And now for something completely different.

I was wrong on Thursday night that S23 was at poker. I'd wondered because not only had he gotten home early but he had also shaved. Last night he mentioned that he had been out to dinner with his mother. He passed on a question about where one of her old digital cameras was. I looked baffled and said that everything should have been in the boxes I'd packed.

That's where it got a bit weird but not in an unexpected way. He said that his mother had been starting to unpack the boxes she had and hadn't found it yet. ???? It's been 18 months since she picked them up. I'm not surprised because "stuff in boxes somewhere" was her main organizational method (I alphabetize). It does make me think that perhaps she's settling in to her new life - whatever that may be now. Maybe she had kept everything packed because she was expecting to move in with OM or perhaps back home (?) No clue. Maybe she is in fact unpacking them at his place.

The good news is that it would appear that she's rebuilding her relationship with her son. He seemed quite relaxed and chipper - perhaps he's now come to terms with us being separate and maybe he's spackled over what could be considered her past mis-deeds. No way to know 'cuz I'm not going to ask.

I also just got word that she's gotten a new tattoo. A copy of a sketch that D25 did for her perhaps 7 years ago that was in one of the boxes. Perhaps she's working on that relationship as well.

Depending on how much intel he passed on - and he knows that I have no secrets - he knew that I'd gone to the court to pick up papers. My ex would know exactly what papers those were. He knows that I'm interested in dating but haven't. He knows that I still have bad days but also good days. He knows that I'm getting rid of the last of the "stuff".

Well - time for a shower and shave and then off to the bank which will hopefully include a withdrawal of fresh baking. Then groceries, flowers, beer store and home. A fresh scone for my lunch. Lamb stew with fresh biscuits is on the menu for this evening. And yes ladies - he "is" single ... laugh


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Hey AP, just dropping by your new digs!

So this is the 'other side'!! Seems very friendly and I love the chat about dating styles! I am so not there yet but if and when I do I can see that there is lots if advice and tips on this board to help those of us who have been out if the dating game for a while!

Strange that exW is only just emptying boxes now, 18 months later. It's just as bad as my H leaving all the stuff he collected in February in his car boot for three months!

I just wanted to say also that I appreciate you continuing to visit the other board. We would miss you if you didn't!!


((AP))


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

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Coly! Thanks so much for the visit and the kind words.

I can't speak for your own situation but it may be similar. I feel that my ex leaving her stuff here for so long and then drawing out the divorce and such was nothing more than an exit strategy for her in case things didn't work out with OM. I was (and am) boring and reliable and a convenient "appliance" and backup plan B.

So - back in the day I was perhaps right that those crumbs I cherished and preserved so much was an indication that she hadn't completely let go of me.

I have no idea what she believes now though, or if my speculative mind-reading is correct or not. I just need to keep moving forward.

In a bit of news, I found out yesterday that my ex has gotten a giant tattoo on her forearm professing her love and devotion to her children. Being as OM is a pretty conservative semi-retired business man this perhaps will not go over well. Funny how a bit soon after she left and I think I was still connected to her Facebook she posted something about the love of family and named her sister, brother and niece and not her own children - and certainly not me.

Perhaps not all is wonderful in fairy princess land. No way to tell - not my circus anyway. This is a pretty loud announcement to the world that she's remembered that she has kids at any rate. I expect that dinner with S23 on Thursday was to show off the new artwork.

It would be good if she started spending time with S23 regularly. Perhaps as the MLC narrative goes, she's reconnecting with her kids.

The neighbour who was telling me about the tattoo was pretty disgusted and made a point of mentioning how she couldn't even bring herself to go to the store that my ex works in since she found out what happened.

In actual important news, I didn't get my fresh baking on Saturday. The nice lady teller was there but looked frazzled, apologized again and mentioned that she had just had some surgery done. I reassured her that I was not annoyed in any way and wished her a speedy recovery. She looked to be in a fair amount of pain and discomfort. I didn't press for info that is none of my business anyway. I do hope that it was only something minor. As a single mom to two busy boys she's got enough on her plate without being incapacitated. Fortunately she has very supportive parents living close by to help out.

Being as she's kept me waiting for this long perhaps she'll make up something extra nice. Then I would just need to make sure I get some before S23 dives in. I just checked the cookie tin which had been filled on Saturday and it is almost empty already.

Well - time to make my lunch and do up the dishes. I get to sleep in tomorrow morning as I'm visiting our sulphuric acid plant tomorrow and it's a much shorter drive. Afterwards yet another session of tattoo removal - it's almost gone now and dinner with a good friend.

TTFN


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I bet as a single mom that just had a surgery, she would love a small bouquet of flowers with a get well card, and a number left in case she wants to grab some coffee with you when she feels better...just saying. Shes sending the signals.

Regarding wayward wives.... they really are that selfish and entitled to think that they can leave you as plan B.

Sadly, we all like to romanticize that they came out of their fogs. Not true. Not one bit. Im aquaintainces with one. And i just cant believe the entitlement. Its like watching a made up character on tv that i think cant be real.

Anyway, she left her husband and is dating. Shes finding out that at her age, the guys shes dating dont really want to combine finances amd blend house holds. The successful and better looking ones anyhow.

She actually told me, that she will give it a few more years and then move back in with her ex husband as a companion even though she doesnt love him anymore.

Whem we first come on here, we all like to think they are in mlc or depressed or having some foo issue or drug like induced addiction to an affair partner that they will come down from.

Nope. I think they are just self serving and calculated in their actions.


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Originally Posted By: JujuB
She actually told me, that she will give it a few more years and then move back in with her ex husband as a companion even though she doesnt love him anymore.


That's hard for me to wrap my mind around. Does she assume that her ex-husband will be waiting for her return with his arms wide open?

I don't know how other people feel, but my XW caused enough destruction the first go-round. There's no way I'd do a second round with her. She's shown me who she is and what she is; why would I want that in my life?

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doodler - From what I've read here and elsewhere it seems that many spouses who wander off to play with the fairies have their heads rammed so far up their @ss that they can barely see their own sh!t and assume that we are just sitting right where / as they left us.

I am of course paraphrasing the more learned members of this and other forums.

Does my own ex believe that? No clue.

Is it true? That's a question that bothers me still.

I know that for me I have certainly changed in respect to my understanding of and requirements for a relationship. Things that she would have no way of knowing. But am still basically the same guy who can be relied on to kill spiders (if there's absolutely no option to carry them carefully outside) and open jars.


On BD
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BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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