I mentioned to my S that mom was coming Monday- I also asked him for his input on how he would feel if I would invite W to stay for bbq because it was around dinner time? OR how would he feel if W asked if she could have dinner with us? His response was simply- I don't want to have dinner with her. Guess that was the end of our conversation.
My hope was to keep the family intact for a meal. Is that pursuit?
You can't keep the family intact with a meal, family events, celebrations, traditions, family vacations, or any other activity........when you try to include the WW. She tore it apart, so now, you and son will have to have a separate family unit from her. You will need to carry on and make new traditions, plan vacations, and have activities without her. Life doesn't stop simply b/c she is no longer there.
Yes, inviting her to anything is big time pursuit. Let me tell what pursuit looks like to a WW. Any show of interest from the H, is pursuit in the opinion of a WW. Any sign of concern for her.....with very few exceptions (when living under the same roof and she is too sick to cook herself some soup, it would be okay for him to fix some soup). Trying to just be friendly, can be interpreted as pursuit. The H who tries to comfort or show empathy for his WW, can be misunderstood as pursuing. When the H warmly engages in a conversation, the WW can see it as pursuit, if he gets too wordy or tries to carry on too long with the conversation. Initiating calls, text messages, emails, etc........or even responding with "wordy" texts, is a common mistake. Many talkative H's have to be very careful about using too many words. Sometimes, even a smile can be interpreted as pursuit.......like if you seem too excited to see her. Some of these actions may not be your definition of pursuit, or even an example given in a dictionary, ....... however, it would considered pursuing behavior to the WW. This is based on my own personal experience, what I have read and heard from other WW's, the information I've researched about wayward (or hard hearted) wives, and the countless stories I have read for the past eleven years.
The quicker you let go of her and stop trying to fix what she has broken, the faster you will get yourself together and start having a life again. Am I telling you to get a D and that there is no hope for the M? No, that's not what I am saying. You need to stop thinking like a desperate LBH, and start thinking as a strong, alpha male, who is independent of his W. And, who is not trying to save something with his WW.
Don't try to make her have regrets or any other feelings. Don't try to trigger memories in her. A WW sees right through those type of actions from the H. If anything, it makes her rebell worse. I don't recall seeing a newcomer who understood the mindset of his wayward W by the end of his first thread. The betrayed H will often learn from his bad experiences.......but in the beginning he just cannot accept that she no longer thinks, feels, or behaves like the woman he knew as his W. He doesn't grasp how illogical she really is. Even though he sees it time after time, he continues to believe she'll have the feelings of a normal human being.......a normal, responsible mother......a normal, responsible adult daughter (or whatever family ties she has)........etc., etc. She won't. Nothing will make sense to you. She is not the same girl you M, or else she deceived you for a very long time.
If she walked in today and announced she was back.....would you be excited? I'm sure you would tell us that you know it will take work......yada......yada......yada. But I wonder if you are so focused on getting your family back together (you, son, & wife), that you would see it as some kind miracle.....and be very happy about it. I don't think that will happen, but if it did......it would be very unwise to let her waltz back in without having met certain specifications, requirements (whatever you want to call it). She is very caught up in this new "religion".....maybe more than someone who is an affair. It's new, exciting, a little taboo in the eyes of some.....daring, etc. She gets a thrill and has emotionally invested everything to get fulfillment from all of this stuff. So, I would caution you about letting her come back too easily. I say that to anyone who has a WW, but this situation has another ingredient. She may never completely give it up. How would you feel about it, if she wanted to come home......and keep her new found religion? If things in her life got hard enough, and nobody else would take her in.......she might try to come home. It's happened in other cases. The unsuspecting, and/or uneducated H (educated in the ways of WW's) would be so happy to just get his W back home that he didn't question anything. Big mistake!
When she left, it was against what you wanted or had to say about it. If she returns to the home, it needs to be in accordance to what you have to say. IMHO, there should be no returning to the home without reconciliation in the MR, and a full understanding and agreement to the terms. If the W was wayward, it is my opinion, she should not get to call the call shots (terms). Sadly, too many H's are way too eager to just get his W back within the four walls......and the problems remains in the MR. Now this is something I've shared with you, but you don't need to repeat to her. (I say this b/c many H's repeat things from the board that should not be stated to his WW).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Everybody thank you again! Sandi those words were very tough to read. Is shows me I have a LONG way to go. Man it looks like she is DONE. This minimizes my hope- but as you all say, If i work on me to be the best me then in the end I still win with or without W.
She just sent me a text that she took longer and If i was home > I texted back yes thinking she would come shortly. She never showed up so I called her because My S has a baseball game tonight.>It was very business like and simple . She said she was home and that She did not see my return text and got caught up in what she was doing. She wanted to come by tomorrow after work to pick up more of her things. Go through the basement of endless clutter. I was the first to drop the conversation saying alright me and S have to go. She said she will text me after work tomorrow. Pray for me b/c I find this is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life!!
M51 w50 T-20Yrs M-16Yrs S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up 1 Awesum dog BD 10/31/17 separate rooms 02/08/18 wife moved out 05/17/18
Vanilla and Sandi you guys give out some tough advice. I guess it is from a stance of tough love.
I guess I struggle to much from NGS- that is why I have trouble putting my foot down. My S knew my W was coming here today and it sort of puts him in a off mood. Last night he was the starting pitcher for his ball team - seems he could not get her out of his head. He had his worst game so far. This morning he said he did not sleep well and would not be able to concentrate at school b/c he was feeling empty and hopeless.
I told him to take his emotion and instead of keeping them inside to write them down. He wrote W a letter and showed me the partial draft. It starts..
Dear Stranger, The pain that you brought unto me never relents and stays with me 24hrs a day. Not an hour goes by where I do not feel every extreme emotion. I feel empty inside and not only do I feel emotionally empty but that I am just a beating heart with a hole inside me draining me of all that was good. Everything reminds me of the events in my life and I could I would escape it by walking to the end of the earth but I would still not be able to forget. I used to always have a smile on my face but now I walk through life feeling unsure of the world knowing there is a very few people I can trust now. I am angered at you as I feel as though you only care about yourself by giving your troubles to me.
This so far is what he showed me..
I feel so hurt for him...please pray for us.. also pray for my W salvation -Thank you..
M51 w50 T-20Yrs M-16Yrs S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up 1 Awesum dog BD 10/31/17 separate rooms 02/08/18 wife moved out 05/17/18
WW WAWs have a new reality. Anything reminding them of the past that doesn't support this new reality is a threat. Bad memories support the new reality. Good memories threaten. Pursuing threatens.
It like arguing politics. No amount of reason or logic will change their minds. They have to change their own minds. That doesn't mean we can't help.
The blueprints are in these threads. Our egos and intuition are our enemies.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
RR you say no amount of logic will change their minds.
I'm not sure how to encourage S on what to do with letter now. What is most devastating to me is how W walks around with no emotion almost oblivious to how anybody but herself is feeling. There is very little interaction with me ( that's good because I want to go dark) but she won't even try to reach out to S. Almost like its ok to sever the blood tie. My poor S has got IC but he still is struggling to make sense about whats going on. Anyways W is supposed to come tonight- wish me luck
Thank you everybody for your prayers and continued support- God bless!!
M51 w50 T-20Yrs M-16Yrs S15- mad at W for not trying and giving up 1 Awesum dog BD 10/31/17 separate rooms 02/08/18 wife moved out 05/17/18
This minimizes my hope- but as you all say, If i work on me to be the best me then in the end I still win with or without W.
My intentions were not to decrease your hope, but to explain that you are not approaching your sitch in the right way. The LBH could almost do the opposite of what his emotions tell him.....and come closer to doing what he needs to do when a WW is in the picture.
Think back to the days long before you ever had a thought about getting M. How would you have responded to some female who treated you like cr@p and than cheated on you? I'd be interested in knowing. Was she the only girl you ever dated? Were you ever in another long term relationship?
Currently, thinking of her in terms of her being your wife, can mess with your head. You'll still think of her as being the girl you M, and she is far from it. Neither will you be able to respond, approach, or interact with her the way you have done in the past. I can assure you that part of the problem today is how you dealt (maybe that's not a suitable word) or interacted with her in the past. Who would you say was mostly in charge? Who gave or apologized first?
Every woman who is in a female-male relationship wants a dominant man. Not domineering, but dominant. If you don't know what I mean, google how to be a dominant man in your relationship, or how a husband acts like a dominant male in marriage.......something along those lines, until you get sufficient information. I wish I could tell what site to pull up, but I can't. Just look around. Also, check out the alpha man. Don't fall for any of that "pick up artist" cr@p. I'm talking about how to be a real alpha man in a real relationship.......not picking up a one night stand. If the message is to single guys about dating, move on. There are some fairly decent YouTube, too.
If you are a man with Nice Guy Syndrome, you'll need to read everything you can find on the subject. You can't nice back a wayward W. She'll try to eat cake every chance she gets, so you have to toughen up and learn how to avoid some pitfalls. Depending on how manipulative she may be, as to how much tough love you'll need to apply.....but there is only one thing all WW's respect. Strength! She needs and wants a man who is stronger than she is. She tested you throughout the MR, and saw you were weaker and would not stand up to her. Therefore, she lost respect, and that caused her to lose attraction for you. So, in order to get her back.....you'll have to be much stronger than you've ever been, and then keep it up if she returns. If you can't, you might as well close the books on this M.
One of the first things nice guys usually ask is, "How can I show her I am stronger if we aren't living together"? "How can I show her 180's, if we never see each other"? I'd first say if that's the case then you are lucky. Then I'd say you need time to learn how to deal with a barracuda......so, don't worry about not seeing her enough, if that's the case.
Besides, if you are truly getting a life like there is no tomorrow, she'll hear about it and check to see what's going on. By "check", I mean temperature check you to see how emotionally attached you are to her....and it doesn't usually happen like the H thinks it will. She'll find some reason to contact you, and when she does, you need to be ready. Most H's will report how badly they messed up when the WW temp checks and he'll say it caught him off guard. Once you get a better understanding (well, scratch that, b/c you'll never understand, but you'll learn more what to expect). I can't say it enough.....get informed.
I believe there is a difference in the wayward wife and a W who was basically driven away from her H, due to his cruelty, imprisonment, addictions, some impossible situation, etc. In other words, the wife who has to leave to protect herself and her children from the husband.....does not have a selfish, hidden agenda. The wayward W is all about herself. She has a huge sense of entitlement, and is motivated by pure selfishness. We have seen some WW's even placing her desires above the welfare of her children. I fully agree with the DR book's advice for the WAS. However, MWD does not separate the wayward from the others, just in case you wonder. She does not use the term "wayward", that I am aware. There are a couple of things I don't think works with a WW. (1) You can't be "friends" with a wayward. You can be polite and civil. Maybe some day down the road, you can even be friend-ly when you have to interact. However, you can not be her friend. I can explain more later, if you'd like. (2) You cannot draw the WW into reconciliation by doing more family activities with her. If living under the same roof, some things can't be helped (such as eating the evening meal). However, if physically separated, then there should be no problem in not doing any activities as a family with her. You may foresee it as such, but we can discuss it as those things come up.
I have several threads on the mindset of a WW, and what H's should do and not do.....if you'd care to read them. I'll try to answer any questions you may have. I don't pretend to know all the answers....and sometime there's just no way to explain crazy.
Your W's mindset is not logical, therefore, you cannot reason with her. Don't even try.
If I could only write one statement to LBH's with a WW, it would be, "Stop trying to save a MR with a wayward W". Do you find this shocking to read on a D busting board? Well, read it again.....and again..... until it makes sense.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
WW WAWs have a new reality. Anything reminding them of the past that doesn't support this new reality is a threat. Bad memories support the new reality. Good memories threaten. Pursuing threatens.
It like arguing politics. No amount of reason or logic will change their minds. They have to change their own minds. That doesn't mean we can't help.
The blueprints are in these threads. Our egos and intuition are our enemies.
RR please don't put the walkaway and the wayward together. Cheaters cheat because they are entitled jerks, they have scrambled eggs for brains. Walkaways are usually more depressed and are thoughtful.
Just saying
Mari
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
