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Back to completing the responses -

JujuB, I wanted to say that it's hard to see my husband leaving as a gift, but perhaps in three to five years I'll be able to see it that way. One of the biggest areas where I struggle is with acceptance. It's hard to accept that this happened. Sometimes I still can't believe my husband is gone. Other times I can't believe he did all those bad things. Like many others say here, what happened to the person I married? It's like they become entirely different people. I'll keep trying to see his departure as a potential gift.

Vanilla, in response to your message from 13/5, you know I've asked the psychologist about this many times (is my husband a sociopath or some other clinical diagnosis?). Last summer my husband agreed to go on his own to a psychologist after I asked him if he would. He went on his own and I went to the same psychologist on my own, separately. I asked the psychologist if my husband had bi-polar, borderline personality, depression, anti-social personality, etc. and the psychologist always said no. He said he didn't detect anything like that in my husband. He said my husband is lost in life, isn't grounded, and doesn't know where he's headed. He said my husband is having a mid-life crisis. He said my husband felt guilty for hurting me and said many good things about me. Many of my friends who know my husband are physicians and they also haven't 'named' his behavior with anything like sociopath. They believe he's trying to make up for lost time by trying to live the adolescent life he never got to enjoy. My husband grew up in a war zone in an Islamic country and never got to have 'fun.' It seems all the temptations here in the US, namely easily accessible women, are more than my husband can resist. He ultimately decided marriage is a trap and he needs to go enjoy his time. So I don't know. Those who are professionally trained who know my husband haven't labeled him as an abuser nor sociopath. Perhaps they see things differently than how they sound here on this forum because they know my husband and I in real life. One thing I know my husband has though is ADHD and impulse control. He's admitted it himself but hasn't sought treatment for it. At the end-of-the-day, my husband lost his morals and ethics and sacrificed his wife and child to go have fun and be free. It might be easier to 'lock the door' if we didn't have a child together. I'll write more about my perspective shortly.

BluWave, thanks for taking the time to read! Yes everything you say sounds right. Bear in mind my husband left once before. He came back begging to come home, apologizing for everything and saying he'd kill himself. Sadly I made a huge mistake in letting him come back without checking to see if he'd gone through the sole-searching process. My therapist at the time suggested I not bring up the past and constantly make my husband feel guilty but I did exactly that along with letting my husband come back too easily. So now I learned the hard way. He left again and obviously didn't learn from his past mistakes. Interesting that your dad is from the Middle East. There are many respectable Middle Eastern men that take excellent care of their families. In fact most that I know are that way. I vetted my husband and thought he was among the best.

Maika, yeah, too bad I didn't learn that the first time my husband left. The commitment to change has to be based on actions over time.

Jim, I wish your wife would come to some realization but I guess while you're going through all these changes and improvements she's just sitting idle. Too bad because it doesn't sound like she's living the best and most fulfilling life that she could live. I hope you can do it though.

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All, I tried to respond to everyone and now I'll write a brief update. So last week my husband called me late one night. It was the first time in five or six months that he called at night. He asked how our daughter was doing and said he missed talking to her (sometimes she's not in the mood to talk when he calls). He asked if she's eating well. He said to please let him know if we need more money especially to buy her the best quality food. Then he said he's going to bed and said goodnight.

This weekend, 10 days after my husband last visited, he came back again. It was bizarre though because he spent most of the time at his family's house and only two hours yesterday and ten minutes today with our daughter. Tonight he passed by on his way to the airport for a few minutes. When he arrived I let him go to our daughter and I went to another room to sort laundry. He came into the room where I was and asked how I'm doing. He asked how my work is going and asked if I'd like him to clean my car the next time he comes. I said work is fine and no I will clean the car myself. I didn't say much else. I was already about to lose it because I felt so upset that my husband flew up here and spent so little time with our daughter. On the other hand, this is definitely a big change that he came to talk to me. He also said he'd like to start doing a FaceTime call with her every night around the same time (he's been calling sporadically and it's always just audio). After my husband left and presumably went to the airport I received a message from him that says "Thank you so much for taking care of her. You are doing a great job. She's a very special girl. I love her more than anything in this world." I responded "You're welcome. She loves you too." Honestly I have no idea what I should have said but I just wrote that.

Yes I know technically I should move on and never accept my husband back. That's most likely what will happen regardless of what I want because there's no sign that he wants to come back, only that he's been warming up recently. Now that my husband left for the second time I know I can't let him come back easily, if he ever wished to return, because I saw what happened and he left again. This situation has been going on for a long time now. Where we each differ on this forum is in our philosophies about life and our expectations. There appears to be somewhat of a status quo about not taking back cheaters, liars, abusers, etc.. that haven't demonstrated true change and remorse. There also appears to be a general agreement that we all deserve a better person and that better people are out there to be found. I agree with those things but I guess I'm not at the point of 'locking the door to my heart' so my husband can never return. I'm trying hard to move on with my life knowing there's a low chance my husband will try to change. On the other hand, I want to work towards the best possible outcome for him, my daughter, and myself. I want to facilitate my husband and daughter having a better relationship. I want my daughter to see my husband and I communicate peacefully. I want to work things out with my husband so we can be friends and support each other. I want to give my daughter the best shot possible in life so I'm trying to give her my undivided attention and don't foresee bringing any new man into the picture for many years. There would be too much risk associated with that. I can't even imagine loving another man except for maybe one who I've known for decades but who isn't an option. I have to accept that my husband chose the wrong path for his life but he's the man that I loved. If, in a few years, he realizes his mistake and commits to change and wants to try again I'd be open to that if it happens through the involvement of an army of third parties like counselors, mutual friends, family, and religious community to create accountability and to make sure everything is fair. It's hard for me to say I'd never take my husband back because potentially we have up to 40 or 50 years of life remaining and it's hard to project so far into the future. I think my husband has a lot of growing up to do. I try to look at the big picture including the ten years of my life I invested into bringing my husband to the US and helping him establish a career, the fact that we have a daughter to raise, and the potential to change as we pass through several more decades of life. I want to be practical and realistic about the future. So I just don't know. It's hard to say I'd never try again with my husband but I agree that he'd either have to A) truly commit to the healing process and demonstrate long term change or B) we reunite in some kind of practical arrangement that gets negotiated for our daughter's sake only.

I just have no idea what will happen in the future. I'll continue to post here in hopes of helping others learn from my experience, just as many of you are doing. As I mentioned a few times in the past, if I were posting here a few years ago when my husband left the first time you would have seen that he came back and it would have sounded like a success story. A few months ago it sounded like we would be divorced within weeks. Now the future is open-ended. I kind of prefer keeping it open-ended. I'll still be sad if my husband files for divorce in the near future and if things deteriorate and I have to file for divorce I'll feel sad about that as well. As the DB book describes, there are different reasons why people might choose to stay married. I still have a hard time accepting divorce as our outcome but staying separated is ok with me for now.

My husband has done terrible things but in response I also became a resentful, cruel, controlling, and abusive wife for a period of time. When I die I have to be accountable for my own actions so I know I have more work to do on myself.

I don't want to ramble endlessly but to conclude, I agree with most of what you've all said and don't expect my husband to return, wouldn't take him back under any easy circumstances, but I want to keep the future open-ended. Thanks again for your input!

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Your current events resonate with me. My husband has been going through this crisis for 8 years now. He left for a month back in 2012 right after BD. He returned and then went through major withdrawn/depression. He was home, but not really home. He actually set up our shed as a make shift suite and stayed in there for 2 months. He then had some clarity and came back into our home. For years he cycled through depression and slight withdrawal after. However, he was almost back to himself but you could see the depression hidden beneath the surface. This past year I thought maybe it was finally over just to find out, nope. Major BD and gone again. Left for 6 weeks a text a few times a week, came back, moved to our commercial property and has been staying there since. I am praying it is a case of going through it all again to close the doors and face fears. For me it is the uncertainty that is unbearable. My heart breaks for you and your daughter, it is so hard on the kids.

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Hi Nicole,

I have tried to catch up on your situation. It was so generous of you to reply to my first post when you have so much else on your plate at the moment, thank you! It meant such a lot.

You are so clearly an couragous, compassionate and articulate woman. I think none of us want you, or your daughter, to have any more unhappiness.

I dont want to trivialise your situation but I am reminded of a story by Anthony de Mello.
Each day a bird would shelter in the withered branches of a tree that stood in the middle of vast deserted plane. One day a whirlwind uprooted the tree, forcing the poor bird to fly a hundred miles in search of shelter, till it finally came to a forest of fruit laden trees and he concluded: If the withered tree had survived, nothing would have induced the bird to give up its security and fly.

I have no idea in this story if you or your husband are the bird but I have a strong feeling that you and your daughter will find fruit laden trees either with or without him!

(PS: I hope for you that it will be with a fully aware, committed, intimate version of the version of him that you fell in love with, as you sound so genuine in your commitment to him)

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Nicole,

I personally believe in the mantra "when people show you who they are, believe them"

You aren't ready to let him go, and I hope one day that you are. Sure, I also hope one day, he turns out to be this very remorseful, sane, loving husband and father.

MLC, stressful job, who knows. But this is who he is right now.

May I make a suggestion? please don't take this the wrong way. Every other word is "my husband". If you try to roll your mindset off calling him" my husband" all the time, you might begin to detach a little better. Because he sure isn't acting like a husband.

You'll get to where you need to be in your own time. I just hope you chose to let him go before he ever comes back.

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Originally Posted By: NicoleR
Steve85, there are lots of men out there but there are only a handful in my life that appealed to me and I only had one long-term relationship before I met my husband that started out as friendship. I never went on a 'date' in my life. In my husband's country dating is forbidden. So I have no idea how I'd meet someone especially considering when you have kids you can't just move anywhere you like so it would have to be someone close by and fit a number of other criteria. It seems like such a remote chance and risk to think of someone new. I just can't imagine anyone else....


Nicole, all LBSs feel this way. After all we think who would want a divorced, single parent etc. However, it can and will happen eventually. You are young and have a full life ahead of you. Based on your history, you probably thought prior to meeting your husband that the likelihood of you meeting someone, falling in love and getting married was low too.

My point is that being so invested in someone else isn't healthy. I know because prior to meeting my W I was there with a girl (now woman) I knew since I was in grade school. Being that vested in someone gives them unique power over you, power that they really enjoy. Your H think she can swoop back in anytime he wants and you will accept him with open arms. Kayla (not her real name) felt the same way about me up to even just a few years ago. In fact, last time I spoke to her she was very cold because I had finally made it clear to her that there was zero chance of us being anything more than we currently are.

Don't give him that much power over you. For years I gave great girls that were interested in me no chance because they weren't Kayla. I gave Kayla power she didn't even realize she wielded, and that was not healthy for me nor for our relationship.

Look, I know telling someone that they should move on is a lot easier than actually moving on, but think about the power you have given to him. Does he deserve it?


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Bluesun, how do you do it? Do you have a thread here on this board that we can read?

Mum2Three, it's nice to think we could find the fruit laden trees. Having worked in war zones for most of my career I'm acutely aware that many never find such a place in this lifetime, but I think my focus is on doing the right thing, strengthening my faith, and purifying myself may offer the most direct path to a better place.

Ginger, I'm not sure what else to call him. Walkaway husband? Or 'the man who left?" I'm not sure but I'll try to make less references to him. Aside from writing here on this forum I've diversified my focus on my daughter, career, friends, activities, etc.. and try to limit the time I spend mourning this man but the pain is still there.

Steve, wow I wish to hear the full Kayla story sometime. You know there is another man in my life but I can't write about it here. I would never have an affair but it's an extraordinarily complicated and unprecedented situation that left even my therapist speechless. I wish there was a more private place to get advice about that. My friends who know are flabbergasted and are of no help. So I know my husband isn't the only man in this world. The void and loneliness is so hard to fill though. Many times I'd do anything to pick up the phone and call my husband but nowadays I call other people or no one at all. It's just that with a child it's no longer as easy as falling in love with someone and starting over. The child comes first and currently I have nothing to offer anyone else so I have to accept being alone. I had one long-term relationship prior to meeting my husband but prior to getting married I don't think marriage was really a priority in my 20's. I was too busy with school and career to think much about that. It all just changed when I met my husband.

All, I have to work on being a more positive person. That's one of the hardest things for me....I don't know about all of you. Many of you sound resilient and you're positive about your lives and futures after your marriages fell apart. I hope to figure out how to be that way too.

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Originally Posted By: NicoleR

All, I have to work on being a more positive person. That's one of the hardest things for me....I don't know about all of you. Many of you sound resilient and you're positive about your lives and futures after your marriages fell apart. I hope to figure out how to be that way too.


One thing that helped me with this Nicole is that realization that positivity or negativity is a choice! I grew up with a father who was very negative, and a mom who was very risk adverse. This had a profound affect on me where I was a pessimistic non-risk taker. I believe that caused a lot of trouble in my marriage since my wife was much more of a free spirited, go with the flow, everything will work out person.

I have spoken to my counselor about this too, and she reinforced that being positive was something I could CHOOSE to do. Even when my initial reaction was to be negative. It also helps to institute the 1 second pause technique before reacting. That way when my initial impulse is to be negative, I can catch it and think positively.

It takes work, but you can do it. In 6 months I have come a long way in turning around from a pessimistic, negative Nancy, to a positive, optimist. I have to say that my existence has been a lot more enjoyable. I think of it as Sadness vs. Joy in the Pixar movie Inside Out.


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Steve, thanks that is helpful. I will keep trying. I'm so glad to hear of your progress!!!

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Guys, my husband just called from his work to ask how I'm feeling today (I've been sick) and to say he's feeling so bad he didn't spend much time with our daughter this weekend so he'll be back within ten days and will spend the whole time with her.

I don't know. My sense is that he may not be trying to fix things with me but he's becoming cognizant of how his actions affect our daughter.

I'd also guess that the relationship my husband has been in with the younger nurse hasn't progressed, or isn't as serious now, because when he met her he disappeared for over a month altogether and could care less how that impacted us.

I'm not saying that anything significant has happened, but for members like Arsh and others who's husbands left angry and spiteful and blaming them and their kids for everything - I do think at some point these rogue spouses start to return to reality. I'd still love an apology from my husband regardless of whether we're ever together again but it may be a while before that happens.

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