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#2790424 - 05/16/18 01:57 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: sandi2]
44tries Online
Member

Registered: 04/01/18
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: sandi2

No, but we will get to all of that. I will try to get it written down in a better organization, than my usual rambling. I also want to touch on boundaries, so don't let me forget about it.


Great! Can't wait to hear more and definitely won't let you forget about boundaries. I have read the boundaries threads a couple times now and will continue to do so.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
It's so funny (to me) what you said about Another Stander sounding so harsh compared to my posts. He'll probably agree that ithat s quite a switcheroo. I always thought he was too nice with his own WW, and too soft/nice in his posts to newbies...... but that was pre-divorce. However, post-divorce, he has toughened up, in my book. ( LOL) But he really is a very caring, very patient, good guy. (I almost said, nice guy). I just get tickled, b/c I think this is twice someone switched our roles and made him the ole tough-guy, instead of me. grin (I love it).


Haha, I can see the humor. I always really value reading what AS has to say, which was why I was sort of shaken by his seemingly harsh post. I do believe he is very caring and it was all well-intended. I think it was the part where he told me to shun any attempt at recon, while you were writing so much about that point. Again, maybe he just meant if she attempted recon before she got home, IDK.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Yes, exactly! I would not tell posters how long it took me to get to that point I was ready to put forth the energy and effort into my M again.......b/c I didn't want them to be too discouraged. But finally, I saw so many newbies in despair b/c they were not seeing I'm ediately turn around in their WW.

The wayward mindset does not just evaporate, like washing away dirt or something. If she doesn't have an authentic experience of remorse, then her heart will not likely have the same softness or humility and compassion that remorse helps to usher in. With or without remorse, it takes consistent work and time. You see, having remorse is needed, but it doesn't cure everything that's wrong with her.


I have grasped this. I have done my best to dispel any illusion of the "falling back into each other's arms" movie scene. Work and time, work and time...

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Let me warn you. Your work and her work are not going to look the same to one another. In other words, she may not think you are doing any work at all, and feel it's all on her to do the heavy lifting. You may wonder if there's any progress in her heart, if you can't see outward evidence. So beware of more resentment if that happens. It will be discouraging when she displays one of her old, unattractive habits. When she does (and know, it will happen sooner or later) your job is to call her out on it right then, and don't let it ride. I think I've said this previously, but it is important enough to say twice. It is going to be the hardest thing either of you have ever done.


I agree. I am ready. But, I am the one who has been putting in so much work and time already to get to that place. So, I think the biggest question will be whether she is anywhere near ready to handle doing the hardest thing she has ever done.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
here is where I hope I can be more encouraging than my own personal story sounded. I was a lot older than yand W, and I had physical problems that robbed me of energy and gave me much pain every day. Due the physical issues, I also suffered with depression, so after I ended my affair, the withdrawals could have been worse than some others experience, but IDK. I probably suffered longer in a depressed state b/c of the various doctors I was seeing and how they were yanking me around with this AD, then taking me off cold turkey and then another doctor putting my back on a new AD......it's a wonder I was able to pull out of it all all. So, I feel all of that affected my "recovery" time. I refuse to blame it all on those factors, b/c i refuse to make it easy by giving myself any excuses.

If I had been a young and healthy as your W, I can't help but believe I would have had more physical energy, which causes more a more natural desire to become involved and interested. A few years later, I went to see a hormone balancing specialist and was told he didn't know how I crawled out of bed every morning. He said, "Sandi, you are a trainwreck". He said my sex hormones were registering zero. I had never heard of such! But he wasn't laughing when he said it. Well, guess what? They make stuff to fix that little problem! blush I just wished it could have fixed some of the other problems as well. Oh, and the depression did improve.....although I still have to take AD's and pain medication.

I have always believed if my doctors had not been yanking me off and on those meds, that it would not have taken me so long to start responding. So, I hope you'll find encouragement in knowing you W is strong and healthy. That goes a long way when having to deal with mental/emotional issues in the MR.


This does help. It is my hope that youth and resilience will be a big advantage. Along with perhaps the fact that there have been far less years of resentment and hopelessness. Perhaps that is just wishful thinking, but I talked to my mom about her own failed MR with my dad (she was WW) and a lot of what she said was that their MR had died so long ago and there were so many years of emptiness, that was the main reason it was beyond repair, at least in her mind.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
I don't know how many hours ahead of the USA you may be, but I want to try and cover what we can, and have you ask about any concerns you still have. I want you to feel confident that you have got this. And don't worry about getting in control or saying certain things before she has a chance to get the drop on you, b/c you'll get to have your say. I don't want you wound so right you are jumping out of your skin by the time you lay eyes on each other.


It depends on your location in the US as well, but I am between a quarter to half a day ahead. I do stay up pretty late, so hopefully there won't be too much of a gap. I agree, I would like to feel confident smile. I am actively trying to avoid exactly what you described about being wound so tight. Thank goodness patience is a strength, not a weakness for me.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
There is a link on Cadet's page (his first post to your first thread) that talk about boundaries. How to state them, examples, etc. I plan to get into them more tomorrow. I will also try to have a more organize flow of thoughts, rather than my usual rambling. Until then, I hope you'll read that link on boundaries. You might want want to google boundaries for couples. I hope to explain the difference in having boundaries and giving ultimatums. We can work on just a few boundaries you'll want to establish.


Done, and will continue to do so. I'm hoping I can keep a few, big important boundaries and not have a bunch of little ones to try and keep track of. I liked how Mowgli said his boundary ultimately came down to respect. Everything else followed. Looking forward to fleshing this out.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
People coming back from this place you find yourself, often have the misconception they are both working to make one another happier, or be more romantic, or go on more trips, or some such stuff..........but they fail to do the inner work on themselves.......which will probably be different from each other. However, each of you must have a change in your own mindsets. You will need to refresh your mind almost daily on no more mr. nice guy. And, you need to set goals that will keep you on track, and not slip back into your beta behavior. There are forums and articles and books, etc. that help men learn how to be no more mr. nice guy and how to be the alpha, dominant male in their MR, and not fall into the trap of trying to appease the W to keep her off his case so that his life would be more tolerable.


Definitely, it will be a daily dedication. I will try and find more outside resources like you describe to help me. I have learned so much, don't plan on stopping anytime soon smile

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
I am tired and need to call it a night. I am going to the beauty parlor tomorrow and telling them to give me the works! (lol). But I'll save time to post to you, okay?


Thank you so much, Sandi. It means a lot to me that you set aside time in your day to post to me. I never take it for granted. I hope you thoroughly enjoy your pampering smile

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Oh, and about your gut feeling. Try not to worry about things like that. You say your gut says she is being honest. Okay, but you still aren't going to talk to her till she get back to the house. So, stay calm. If she is authentic, it will proves out soon enough. I just think you need to be prepared for different scenarios. We can get into it more tomorrow.


Staying calm. I have told myself exactly what you said, if she is authentic my demand for NC should not cause her to run away and crawl into a hole and never come out. My NGS causes me to be plagued with fear about this, but I knew if everyone here was telling me it needed to be done, it did. And I understand why.

She texted me today and said "My replacement will be here tomorrow. Should be home Friday or Saturday, will find out later today or tomorrow. Just updating you. Not trying to bother you. No need to respond."

I hope this means she is understanding and being respectful of my request. I did not respond anything even though I wanted to at least say thank you.
_________________________
M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018
Currently in an in-house separation

W began obsessively texting a 19yr old shortly after BD.
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018

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#2790443 - 05/16/18 03:39 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: 44tries]
sandi2 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 17021
Quote:
I agree. I am ready. But, I am the one who has been putting in so much work and time already to get to that place. So, I think the biggest question will be whether she is anywhere near ready to handle doing the hardest thing she has ever done.


Yes, you have been working hard for a long time to get to that place. Remember, 44, she hasn't been working at all. Her direction was going the opposite way. So, like I previously said, your part and her part (work) won't look identical. Sometimes it causes frustration for the H, b/c he can't see the struggle in her heart/mind. I don't know how addicted she was to the 19 yr old boy, but I'd say it was more about the thrill of the secretive contacts, etc. She will have to resist temptation to not repeat that behavior, and she may have other guys that she labels "just friends" she is texting. All of that has to end, and she may be very resistant and accuse you of trying to control her. The "control" card will be her most go-to response.

I'm going to attempt to break down some type of steps to consider in approaching her. I had bookmarked tons of old posts I had written over the past couple of years, but they were on another computer and I think they've been lost. I just thought it would be faster to copy and paste. grin However, I do need to try my best to focus on the first things for you to address with her, and try to keep out so much extra "explaining" (me, not you......well, maybe you, too wink ).

First, prepare yourself by proper sleep, good diet, and excerises. Don't let your thoughts turn into fears by going off into the land of "what if". We can cover a few scenarios, to maybe help you feel more comfortable.

Second, once you have an idea of what to cover in the initial approach, practice in front of a mirror. Practice looking calm, confident, and in control of yourself (not trying to control her, just yourself). Practice various scenarios and how you will handle it.

Third, the day she arrives, wear something that makes you look and feel like an attractive male. I don't want you to be too obvious, like you are trying to impress her. This is for you.

Since she has been behaving more nicely the past couple of days, I feel like that may be the approach you see in her. That will be nice, but don't mistake niceness as meaning anything positive. The greatest scenario would be to see her humble and remorseful.......and maybe, who knows......you'll see it. I am just a bit reluctant to believe her feathers won't get ruffled and she'll resist some things you want from her. So, even if she comes home and is nice.......just be cautious.

I would not start in on her the minute she walks in the door. Give her time to unpack, rest, drink or eat something......maybe rest, whatever. I feel she'll say something about the situation first. Which is fine. As long as she is calm and stating her views, let her have her say. Just don't let it distract or confuse what you will do. okay? She may have decided she wants a physical separation. If that's the case, then I think you'll have to agree and begin making preparations to do it. I hope she won't suggest "in-house" separation, b/c they are disastrous for a LBH. But, I'll get to this in the scenarios.

I suggest you start with the ultimate objective, which questions, "Do we save our marriage, or do we get a divorce"?. Then tell her that, for you, there will be no in between methods.......like in-house separation. You both are all in, or all out. Before making the final decision as to whether or not you both work to save the M, you tell her what you will need in the relationship. Don't refer to it as stipulations or even requirements. These are the things you will need, to stay in the M.



I have to leave for a little while, and then I will return with more.
_________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

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#2790483 - 05/16/18 06:07 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: sandi2]
44tries Online
Member

Registered: 04/01/18
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: sandi2

Yes, you have been working hard for a long time to get to that place. Remember, 44, she hasn't been working at all. Her direction was going the opposite way. So, like I previously said, your part and her part (work) won't look identical. Sometimes it causes frustration for the H, b/c he can't see the struggle in her heart/mind. I don't know how addicted she was to the 19 yr old boy, but I'd say it was more about the thrill of the secretive contacts, etc. She will have to resist temptation to not repeat that behavior, and she may have other guys that she labels "just friends" she is texting. All of that has to end, and she may be very resistant and accuse you of trying to control her. The "control" card will be her most go-to response.


I can be patient and not get frustrated. My struggle will be with being too nice. I agree about the control card--she hates being "restricted" as she calls it, she is stubborn and has always been that way. What is my response when she tries to play the control card?

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
First, prepare yourself by proper sleep, good diet, and excerises. Don't let your thoughts turn into fears by going off into the land of "what if". We can cover a few scenarios, to maybe help you feel more comfortable.

Second, once you have an idea of what to cover in the initial approach, practice in front of a mirror. Practice looking calm, confident, and in control of yourself (not trying to control her, just yourself). Practice various scenarios and how you will handle it.

Third, the day she arrives, wear something that makes you look and feel like an attractive male. I don't want you to be too obvious, like you are trying to impress her. This is for you.


Got it. I can do all of these things. I'm tempted to probably do too much "other" stuff, like make the house spotless, bathe the dogs, wash the cars (she has been mentioning this for awhile)...etc. Obviously, I will not have the house messy but how much is too much? I feel like I shouldn't wash her car...but I'm not going to just wash mine..so maybe not at all?

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Since she has been behaving more nicely the past couple of days, I feel like that may be the approach you see in her. That will be nice, but don't mistake niceness as meaning anything positive. The greatest scenario would be to see her humble and remorseful.......and maybe, who knows......you'll see it. I am just a bit reluctant to believe her feathers won't get ruffled and she'll resist some things you want from her. So, even if she comes home and is nice.......just be cautious.


Noted, I think the same as you. I think she is genuinely trying to be nice--she was putting on her "first-date" level effort--but I can easily see how as soon as something rubs her the wrong way, she will lapse. Again, since this is somewhat expected, what is my response?

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
I would not start in on her the minute she walks in the door. Give her time to unpack, rest, drink or eat something......maybe rest, whatever. I feel she'll say something about the situation first. Which is fine. As long as she is calm and stating her views, let her have her say. Just don't let it distract or confuse what you will do. okay? She may have decided she wants a physical separation. If that's the case, then I think you'll have to agree and begin making preparations to do it. I hope she won't suggest "in-house" separation, b/c they are disastrous for a LBH. But, I'll get to this in the scenarios.


Agreed, I will give her her hour wink I hope she will initiate first, but maybe she will be thinking that all my "think time" means I will have something prepared, IDK. Regardless, I won't let her distract me. Once I have my game plan and have practiced, this will be fine. I would love to hear more about possible scenarios. Based on her eagerness to plan trips, etc. I'm hoping she isn't already thinking along the lines of physical separation...however, this could change when she realizes I am going to force a "one or the other" on fixing the MR or D. Or maybe NC will change her whole attitude and she will be closed, who knows.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
I suggest you start with the ultimate objective, which questions, "Do we save our marriage, or do we get a divorce"?. Then tell her that, for you, there will be no in between methods.......like in-house separation. You both are all in, or all out. Before making the final decision as to whether or not you both work to save the M, you tell her what you will need in the relationship. Don't refer to it as stipulations or even requirements. These are the things you will need, to stay in the M.


This helps a lot. I can start to see the backbone of what I am aiming for. It does make me nervous about ultimatums, I thought those were supposed to be avoided? But I agree, I'm not really interested in in-between methods (or I shouldn't be, anyway...). I hope you will help me with my "what I need" list, I want it to be well edited.

Looking forward to hearing more...thank you so much again smile
_________________________
M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018
Currently in an in-house separation

W began obsessively texting a 19yr old shortly after BD.
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018

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#2790490 - 05/16/18 06:32 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: 44tries]
LoneWlf Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/18
Posts: 108
44 here is your chance to get you BALL$ back. I know it easy for me to say but I also know we are all pulling for you. You have some incredible people in your corner now its up to you . As I tell my S- You either GIVE UP or MAN UP? Time to MAN UP! Good luck!!
_________________________
M51 w50
T-20 yrs M-16 Yrs
S15- pissed at W for not trying and giving up
1 awesum dog
BD 11/31/17
separate rooms 02/08/18
wife moved out 05/17/18

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#2790505 - 05/16/18 07:52 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: LoneWlf]
Ste7e Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/18
Posts: 133
Just want to chime in and say that Sandi's advice on this thread is really helping me too. I wish you luck 44 you got this!
_________________________
M 40 W 34
Together 7 Married 2
No Kids
BD 1/21/18 need space
Moved out 2/28/18
ILYBNILWY & Asked for D 3/28/18
no EA/PA

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#2790506 - 05/16/18 07:55 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: LoneWlf]
44tries Online
Member

Registered: 04/01/18
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: LoneWlf
44 here is your chance to get you BALL$ back. I know it easy for me to say but I also know we are all pulling for you. You have some incredible people in your corner now its up to you . As I tell my S- You either GIVE UP or MAN UP? Time to MAN UP! Good luck!!


Thanks, LoneWlf! I'm definitely not giving up...so man up it is! I got this.
_________________________
M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018
Currently in an in-house separation

W began obsessively texting a 19yr old shortly after BD.
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018

Top
#2790533 - 05/16/18 10:08 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: 44tries]
44tries Online
Member

Registered: 04/01/18
Posts: 207
Thanks, Ste7e!!
_________________________
M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018
Currently in an in-house separation

W began obsessively texting a 19yr old shortly after BD.
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018

Top
#2790535 - 05/16/18 10:27 AM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: sandi2]
sandi2 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 17021
If you give in too quickly, you'll likely experience a period of her showing better behavior, followed by a quick return of the old disrespect and self-entitlement attitude. So, you must be firm. If your WW says she is truly sorry and wants to work on the MR, let her know that you need to see some things change, to feel confident about her decision. If she starts telling you what you need to do for her.......just let her have her say. Depending if her attitude is okay. If she says she doesn't know what she wants, then tell her you know what you don't want, and proceed to tell her the following. At whatever point, the following boundaries need to be stated......if you mean it. If you won't stick to your resolve......then what's the point, right? She cannot think she can return to the same old behaviors and keep the M.

* "In order for the MR to go forward, there are some behavior patterns that must change".

* "I will not stay in a MR where I am disrespected in any fashion".
"I will no longer tolerate your self-entitled attitude. I will not be treated as if I owe my services to you, expected to wait on you hand & foot, or give accountability. I will not tolerate you treating me as if you are my mother, my commanding officer, or my employer. Are we clear, so far? If you aren't willing to change this behavior, then we need to end the M, right now".

Side Note: If she is not willing to do this much, then there is no point in trying to discuss anything else. There is no point in discussing the affair, or bringing this & that up, b/c it all boils down to one word........disrespect. So, if she starts talking about how you made her feel, yada, yada.......just look firmly at her and say, "This is about what you are willing to do to save our M. If you can't treat me respectfully, then we need to get a divorce, because I will not continue tolerating it".

* "I will not stay in a MR with private and/or inappropriate friendships and/or affair". "You have betrayed my trust, and you brought OM into our M. We either go forward committed to being faithful, or we end the M now. If there is to be a M, then there will be no more private/secret texting. If you are not willing to be transparent in our M, then say so now".

Side Note: If she tries to turn this around and bring up how you've been so secretive lately, just hold up your hand in the stop position, and say, "That was after learning of your affair. You've talked a lot about your feelings, and I had hoped for once you would consider my feelings. I did nothing that was inappropriate or disloyal. I have never had an inappropriate relationship with another woman. I have remained faithful and loyal to you, although you made it clear that you did not want to have sex with me". If she accuses you of wanting to punish her, just say "No".

The statements in bold are boundaries. However, don't mention them being boundaries to her. You are simply stating what you will not tolerate in your life. That is what boundaries do. They protect us. That is why countries have boundaries; our property has boundaries; and we have personal boundaries for how others treat us. We don't allow people to just treat us any old way. Right? We either push back, or we remove ourselves from the situation.......but we don't simply ignore it or comply.

For now, these two boundaries are the most important. I am going to send this on to you, b/c I don't want to accidentally lose it. If you have questions, please ask.
_________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

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#2790542 - 05/16/18 12:03 PM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: sandi2]
sandi2 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 17021
Well, I lost my post. cry
_________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

Top
#2790550 - 05/16/18 01:37 PM Re: Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV [Re: 44tries]
sandi2 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 17021
Quote:
I agree about the control card--she hates being "restricted" as she calls it, she is stubborn and has always been that way. What is my response when she tries to play the control card?


WW: "I won't let you control me"!
You: "I am telling you what I will no longer tolerate, if we are going to stay M. You are free to decide if you will cooperate or not. If you have no intentions to show respect, that's your choice, but I have choices also. I will choose to get a divorce, rather than tolerate further disrespect".
WW: "Well, this is the way I am, so if you don't like it, then you are welcome to leave".
You: "Then I have my answer, and I see no point of continuing this discussion any longer".
WW: "Oh, that's typical. If you don't like something.......just walk away. Go into your bedroom and shut the door.
You: "I wanted an answer and you gave me one, so that's fine".
WW: "What about what I want, huh? What about my feelings? You didn't even care that I was stuck over there by myself. You waited till I was alone, and then you chose to lash out and punish me. You don't know what that did to me! You didn't even care enough to to just respond to my text".
You: "Look, we both are at a crossroads. I needed time to get my head clear. Before getting into saying things we might both regret latter, the first decision to make is whether or not we save our MR or get a divorce. I am telling you what I cannot tolerate any longer. You have the same right to say whatever you want. However, if you know at this moment you will refuse to change your behavior toward me........then I think it is pointless to continue".

So, she will either give you a straight answer, or she try to wiggle out and find an alternative solution.

WW: "I couldn't wait to get back home and be with you. I wanted us to make love and tell you how sorry I was for everything. I dreamed of us taking a little trip......like a second honeymoon, to start over. Then I get here and find you cold and hateful, yelling ultimatums at me, before I can even tell you how I feel. But.....I guess my feelings aren't important to you. Maybe you are right. Maybe we should just get a divorce".

See how that was worked by your fake W (me) in her last response? ^^^^^^^. It is to make you regret what you've just told her and how you handled yourself. She is giving you a picture of something beautiful and than you got into a hurry and messed up everything. It's designed to put you into pursuit mode. Don't do it. Remain calm, whatever happens.

Quote:
I'm tempted to probably do too much "other" stuff, like make the house spotless, bathe the dogs, wash the cars (she has been mentioning this for awhile)...etc. Obviously, I will not have the house messy but how much is too much? I feel like I shouldn't wash her car...but I'm not going to just wash mine..so maybe not at all?


Good grief, man! You aren't getting ready for your first date, your WW is coming home.

Some people may see this and think you have many lovely attributes, but I don't. I see a H with a lot of NGS.

Quote:
Noted, I think the same as you. I think she is genuinely trying to be nice--she was putting on her "first-date" level effort--but I can easily see how as soon as something rubs her the wrong way, she will lapse. Again, since this is somewhat expected, what is my response?


Follow through with basically what I sent in the previous post. If you think I was too shaped tongued in places, you can bring it to my attention, or give a better example. I realize it sounds a lot more like ultimatums than boundaries. I just think you need to be that firm and not play pattiecake with her.

The very best scenario would be if she came home and humbly apologized and ask for your forgiveness, and tell you she wanted to work together in having a good M. If (and that is a big IF) this should be the case, then you can ease into the same conversation, but maybe say it more tenderly. Make sense? I don't think it will take long before you'll know how sincere she is.

Quote:
Once I have my game plan and have practiced, this will be fine. I would love to hear more about possible scenarios. Based on her eagerness to plan trips, etc. I'm hoping she isn't already thinking along the lines of physical separation...however, this could change when she realizes I am going to force a "one or the other" on fixing the MR or D. Or maybe NC will change her whole attitude and she will be closed, who knows.


Since she's in the military, what kind of trip could she plan?

I will role play with you (me being the WW or the H, it doesn't matter). Tell me what role you want. I had written out some scenarios in the post I lost, which is probably for the best.....since I they may have sound a bit sharp.


Quote:
This helps a lot. I can start to see the backbone of what I am aiming for. It does make me nervous about ultimatums, I thought those were supposed to be avoided? But I agree, I'm not really interested in in-between methods (or I shouldn't be, anyway...). I hope you will help me with my "what I need" list, I want it to be well edited.


MWD says in her DR book that if you give an ultimatum, be prepared to back it up. I say the same goes for boundaries. (You can't always just walk away and think the person will respect you for it). The differences in the two is the ultimatums don't give much of a choice. The recepient hears, "Do it my way, or else". Some people don't believe boundaries should have consequences. Well, I do. What good are they if they are dishonored and there are no consequences?

Here is how I see it. You tell her what you will not tolerate. Now, she can do whatever she chooses. Of she chooses not to honor your boundary, then some action should take place as a response. Since it was your boundary, you are the one to choose the action. You said you would not tolerate disrespect any longer. So, the ball in your court. What will you do? If you've already announced what you'd do.......then you best do it. If you didn't say what you'd do......you still need to show action.

To me, ultimatums are saying do it my way or else. So, that may seem how my examples sounded to you, IDK. At this point......and how she pushed this to a head like a nasty pimple.....I think you should be firm in your delivery. If you want to call it an ultimatum or whatever.......it doesn't really matter. I think it will have about the same effect. All I ask is that you don't walk around in your house crowing about this & that being your boundaries. As long as you know what they are, that's the important part. If you use these two examples I sent previously, then you'll need to be ready to follow through if she won't agree to cooperate in showing you respect.

In many ways, this is another confrontation. Only this time, you are hitting hard, and there is just one answer you want to hear. Which is, "I am willing to cooperate and work to save our M". I will be surprised if it's that easy. I don't think she'll be that straight forward about it. Giving her a chance to saying something first, will give you a better idea of what she's thinking. Her waywardness is still there, I'm pretty sure.

Quote:
This helps a lot. I can start to see the backbone of what I am aiming for. It does make me nervous about ultimatums, I thought those were supposed to be avoided? But I agree, I'm not really interested in in-between methods (or I shouldn't be, anyway...). I hope you will help me with my "what I need" list, I want it to be well edited.


I will be glad to help. I don't think it's necessary to present it at the same time you tell her the first two boundaries. Once that conversation dies down, and if it seems to go well and she's showing positive signs of cooperating, then you might suggest that each of you make separate lists of what you need in the M, which the other spouse can provide.
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It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

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