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A few months ago, my W told me she wanted to R. I broke one of Sandi's rules and I made the mistake of believing something she said. She said all the right things, but her actions were not aligning with what she was saying. I remember telling her when she came back that I needed 3 things from her to make this work. Honesty, Respect, and Loyalty. Over the next few weeks, I realized I was not getting any of these from her. Of course she said all the right things to get me to believe I was getting them, but her actions proved otherwise. Less than a month later, it was time for her to go again...


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

"Surrender to the Flow"...
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Originally Posted By: artista

I will put my two cents in... I am disappointed that you had the conversation/the reveal over the phone... Why? Because you put your foot down and said you wanted to have it face-to-face... She disregarded you and pushed for her way... And you gave in... Instead of working on detaching (you are not detached, no matter what you try to tell yourself) you are engaging with her... You did not put into practice what it is to be a man with balls, and she did not get the consequence of going too far... Neither of you are taking this precious gift of space and time and using it to your advantage... Every time you communicate with her, you take away from your opportunity to become that man only a fool would leave...

Honestly, I don't know what else to tell you... All I have is CUT THE CONTACT! ENOUGH... MY gawd, see if you can live through one entire day without her... I promise you, you will not die! You are a grown man, not a baby who needs milk from his mommy... You see? You don't need her to survive... But if you want her, you MUST DETACH... otherwise, you will surely face the same fate as Tate... A wife who files while you are still fully stuck on her...

--artista


Artista, I'm sorry I disappointed you and I know I had a lapse in strength. I completely understand your point about communicating with her costing opportunities to grow.

I have no problem living one day without her...I get it, I hope I have not given the impression I am arguing about the contact. I am clear, and have told her I want all the time until she returns.

I mentioned before that after the confrontation I said I needed time but didn't give a timeline. I didn't hear anything from her most of the day yesterday until the evening and then she tried to reach out. She called about the banking password (I won't text passwords). She tried to make small talk; I could tell she was trying to be extremely nice and then she sent out a feeler about traveling for Memorial Day. I shut it down and told her we aren't talking about anything like that until she gets home. She texted me after we hung up and said "It was nice to talk to you." It was then that I told her I want the rest of the time until she returns (which is looking like Friday, maybe Saturday) and am going silent. Yes, it is hard, but I am on board, okay? No contact. Today has been fine.


Now, aside from GAL, I am just trying to prepare for what she will try when she gets back. I feel like this is going to be very new territory and I hope to talk to Sandi (and anyone else with input) more about boundaries. I'm a little at a loss for what to expect going forward. On one hand, I'm trying not to analyze or predict anything, but on the other I feel I need to be prepared and am not.

I also have another problem. I believe my W. I know, I know, she's likely a liar. She only cares about herself and I am as suspicious as I could be. If I had to bet money, I am on board with all of you, I would do the logical thing and bet she is lying. The problem is my gut instinct is not agreeing. What do I do about that? Just try to ignore it? This whole time, my gut instinct has been congruent with the truth. I've known about the A, deep down, since day 1. I've known when she lies. Now, I'm worried my detector is broken.


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 616
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Originally Posted By: 44tries

I also have another problem. I believe my W. I know, I know, she's likely a liar. She only cares about herself and I am as suspicious as I could be. If I had to bet money, I am on board with all of you, I would do the logical thing and bet she is lying.


Rule #32. Do not believe anything they say and 50% of what they do.

See my above post...


Me: 38
W:31
Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4
M: 10 years
T:12 years
BD:Jan 3, 2018
W moved out: Apr 13,2018
Filed for D: Jun 2018
D final: Sep 2019

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I think one of the boundaries that you can establish is complete transparency. If she has nothing to hide she should have no problem agreeing with that. This will also tell you if your lie detector is broken or not. Also, her agreeing to complete transparency and you using it to snoop are two different things. If she agrees it will always be in your rights to do, but since she agrees to it likely you won't have to. If she balks that is a red flag.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Originally Posted By: mtb1981
A few months ago, my W told me she wanted to R. I broke one of Sandi's rules and I made the mistake of believing something she said. She said all the right things, but her actions were not aligning with what she was saying. I remember telling her when she came back that I needed 3 things from her to make this work. Honesty, Respect, and Loyalty. Over the next few weeks, I realized I was not getting any of these from her. Of course she said all the right things to get me to believe I was getting them, but her actions proved otherwise. Less than a month later, it was time for her to go again...


Thanks for this, mtb. You posted even before my last post where I talked about struggling with believing her. I KNOW all the rules, I am trying so hard not to believe anything. But it's hard to convince that deep down part of you. I'm working on it. Your story really helps. You are right ultimately it's the actions that will show the truth...I guess I will be patient and guarded and see what happens. I am doing my best to objective (detached) and prepared for anything.


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 249
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Originally Posted By: Steve85
I think one of the boundaries that you can establish is complete transparency. If she has nothing to hide she should have no problem agreeing with that. This will also tell you if your lie detector is broken or not. Also, her agreeing to complete transparency and you using it to snoop are two different things. If she agrees it will always be in your rights to do, but since she agrees to it likely you won't have to. If she balks that is a red flag.


Great advice, Steve. I will definitely demand transparency. Once she is back and we have contact again, I am going to ask her for proof of the conversation she supposedly had about ending it. And proof of when they last had contact. I agree this will really help set my gut feelings straight. Even thinking about it helps build suspicion because my W has always been very resistant to prying into her personal space. It is hard to imagine her just agreeing to show me messages, etc. But if she balks, you're spot on, all the alarms will be going off.


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
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Originally Posted By: 44tries
Originally Posted By: Steve85
I think one of the boundaries that you can establish is complete transparency. If she has nothing to hide she should have no problem agreeing with that. This will also tell you if your lie detector is broken or not. Also, her agreeing to complete transparency and you using it to snoop are two different things. If she agrees it will always be in your rights to do, but since she agrees to it likely you won't have to. If she balks that is a red flag.


Great advice, Steve. I will definitely demand transparency. Once she is back and we have contact again, I am going to ask her for proof of the conversation she supposedly had about ending it. And proof of when they last had contact. I agree this will really help set my gut feelings straight. Even thinking about it helps build suspicion because my W has always been very resistant to prying into her personal space. It is hard to imagine her just agreeing to show me messages, etc. But if she balks, you're spot on, all the alarms will be going off.


Ah this is good info. So you might want to tread lightly here. My W is the same way, she has always felt like her privacy was invaded if I asked to look through her phone. Of course, those that don't know us might say "well maybe she always has had something to hide". However, there are people that have hangups about this and you need to be sensitive to those hangups.

However, she needs to understand how you can't be sure of anything she says, since cheaters always lie, without proof.


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So how have you made since the last time you posted? NC, I hope.

As I said yesterday, I think we all are on the same page. I may adding too much, trying to prepare you. I don't want you getting confused again, okay? However, if you don't understand how or when something is to take place, just ask. If I know, I'll speak up.

Quote:
This is really good insight.. and also crushing for me. It kills me to think I made my W feel that way. And I can definitely see why it would cause such vulnerability to cheating.


Don't take responsibility or blame for her decision to cheat. Don't make statements to her like the one quoted above. I understand what you mean, but she won't be mentally/emotionally in a place to hear it, without taking full advantage of you. Many LBH's say something along those lines, thinking they are meeting the WW half way. No, he can't says things that sound as if he is taking responsibility for any of her bad behavior. Those were her free choices to make. Waywardness is not forced on another person. It begins with a negative mental attitude toward the spouse. It's like a lazer beam that is directed solely at him. She blames everything wrong in her life on him. The disrespectful actions begin to reflect what is in the heart, and finally rebellion acts out. Currently, she will want you to take blame for everything that went wrong in the MR.....including her A. It will be a big mistake if you agree. If there was ever a time you stand up for yourself, it is now. Do not give in or back down, thinking it will work out. It's only enabling her wayward mindset.

Keep in mind the part you played......which was the passive, pick your battles, keep the W happy, yes dear, beta male characteristics. The more a man acts like another female, the less sexual attraction his W will feel for him. That's why I get all up in the air when men start talking about losing their best friend (their wife). She has other women who can be her best friends. The H should not be her BFF. His position (and her position) are uniquely established and designed by God to be loyal, intimate, sexual mates for a lifetime. They are more than partners. They are more than friends. They are lovers who are bonded together as one body. They have responsibilities in maintaining a loving and caring life together.....and to put it above all others. It takes a lot of effort to keep the flirtiness, playfulness, and sexiness in a lifelong MR. It takes a lot of effort to keep interested in what each other is doing, and to find a common activity you both really love doing together. It gets to be harder to find time to just be alone together and really pay attention to each other's emotional needs. If it stops, it won't be long until their daily lives and the sex becomes routine and dull.......and sex will probably taper off. They become more like roommates and learn to just "settle". Then if one spouse decides they can't live that way any longer and leaves......the left behind spouse will say s/he lost their best friend. What? Best friend! S/he needs to go back and review what a MR is suppose to be. Acting like a best friend, instead of a lover, is what got them into the mess in the first place. Calling your spouse your best friend is a demotion, IMHO. There is only one person who can qualify as your spouse.....and you're going to demote him/her to a friend's position? Anyway.....I'm getting away from my subject.

Quote:
Quote:
The most important thing needed is her willingness to do the necessary work. If she cooperates, then these other things will come........if her heart is right. As long as her heart is resentful and selfish......then those feelings won't come b/c you just can't have a loving, happy MR with resentment, selfishness, and disrespect in the heart.


And how will I know if she gains this willingness? She will say so?


It would be wonderful if she spoke up and said she was willing to do whatever work was necessary to save the MR. If you were to tell her how she had to stop bossing you around, expecting you to cater to her, stop interrogating you, drop the self entitlement, start showing you respect as her H and as a man.........she might she'll try or she's willing....IDK. Somehow, I don't think she's going to make it that easy. Even if she agrees to do whatever you may list as stipulations to reconciling......for her to actually "do it", is another matter. Lip service isn't worth a pinch of salt if there is no action to follow.

I kind of regret saying that willingness was more important than remorse and commitment, b/c I think it confused you. Maybe it confused someone reading it, I hope not. Anyway, let me try to explain better. When I was a WW and had joined the board looking for someone to help me decide what to do, I finally made the decision to "do the right thing" and end my affair and stay in my M. I was not remorseful. In all the things different ones said to me, trying to get me to end the A and give my M another chance, there was one question I was asked that stood above all the others. "Sandi, for now, can you just make the choice to do the right thing"? In other words, they weren't telling me what they thought the right thing was. They weren't telling me how I should feel about anything. They said to do what I believed was the "right" thing to do. Well, that had hit me hard, b/c basically, that is who I am. I am a "Thou shalt, and Thou shalt not" type of person. (I realize how that sounds, considering I was in an A at the time). I knew I had to get back to that person again. But at that moment, I was so emotionally low and so tired that it was so difficult to find enough willingness in me to just get to the first level of willingness. That's pretty low! I strictly made my decision based on it being the morally & spiritually right thing to do. And let me tell you, I felt as if I had just sacrificed my life. frown I had no hope, no positive feelings, and certainly no excitement! I was so depressed in the following days that my adult D called a friend who was a RN, and was told to take me to the doctor immediately.

The first thing I did was end the A. The feelings of remorse did not come for almost two years. It's a long story and I won't take the time to explain why it took that long. I'll just say that my H should have required much, much more from me than I gave those first two years. However, he sat back and let me do pretty much whatever I wanted.......as long as he knew I wasn't contacting the other man. I was transparent (not that he asked, b/c he wasn't the one here getting the tools), and I learned that much from the board. delve ally worked on showing outward respect to him. Eventually, I began to feel the respect I was showing. I worked on my heart.......which is why it probably took nearly two years. Just b/c I had made the decision to stay in the M did not mean all my waywardness went out the window! No sir! Plus, with waywardness, there is a lot of stubborn pride. Some people call it false pride. It's bad. It's what keeps a person from apologizing to the one they've hurt. And if you already blamed your H for you having an affair in the first place.......you aren't going to be very quick to offer a sincere apology. So, anyway, I was coming home from work every day and hitting the DB board. I would stay here until I couldn't keep my eyes open and then hit the bed. Get up and do it all over the next day. It was hard, b/c there's not a lot of advice on the board for waywards. Oh yeah, a lot of H's want to tell a WW the same stuff he wishes his W would do.....but they didn't have a clue as to the mindset of a wayward. So, we learned together. Since my H wouldn't talk, I learned more how he probably felt by listening to the LBH's on the board. That had a lot to do with softening my heart. I also had some terrific mentors, and at that time, we could contact each other privately. So it helped a lot.

Sorry.....I didn't mean to get off into all of that ^^^^^^^^! blush

Anyway, I never want to imply that remorse is not important. If it doesn't happen, I am not sure if the WW ever has much compassion for her hurt H. I mean, I just don't know. What's to prevent her ongoing justifications and blaming him for her actions, rather than taking full responsibility? You see, I think there is a difference in regretting something you did......from being deeply sorry for doing it. When you are so sorry that you hurt your spouse in such a shameful & disgraceful manner that your heart feels as if it's breaking......that describes remorse, IMHO. There is no sense of self-entitlement, whatsoever. There is no haughty attitude. There is no anger, resentment, or bitterness. There is no pointing a finger at him and accusing or blaming. There is no scorekeeping. There is no thoughts of how she felt then or feels now. There is only concern for the betrayed and terribly hurt spouse. The cold, hard heart has finally softened. The remorseful WW doesn't have arrogant expectations! She doesn't lay down the rules for what she needs from her H! At least, not at that point in time. If truly remorseful, she only prays that someday he can forgive her. Hopefully, these feelings will lead to full repentance (which means turning away from what you were doing). IMHO, it's that remorse and repentance that really humbles the heart and makes it possible for the WW to start replacing those negative emotions for positive thoughts and feelings for her H and their MR. It is like growth. It doesn't happen all at one time. You see, a lot of LBH's don't realize that the WW has a tremdous amount of heart surgery that must be done, and then she has to go through the rehabilitation....so to speak. She has to get her heart & attitude right, and then follow through with the right actions.

Since only God can see the heart of man, we only have the outward signs to observe. So, here is what you look for if she is genuine about wanting to save the MR. Her attitude, words and actions are paralleled. They match. She isn't showing a bad attitude. She isn't saying one thing but acting quite another way. They all match.

Sorry for writing a book. No telling what all has been posted while I was rattling.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
So how have you made since the last time you posted? NC, I hope.


Yes, we are now NC. It was hard for me, and I still have anxiety about it because she was trying so hard to be nice and I shut her down (I know, I know, detachment and NGS issues right there). She told me she understands and will respect my wish, but she also said she would have her work pick her up from the airport instead of me. This is her doing her usual "I'm hurt and going to recoil" reflex, and just proves why the NC is necessary (she has no grounds to be hurt in this scenario!).

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
As I said yesterday, I think we all are on the same page. I may adding too much, trying to prepare you. I don't want you getting confused again, okay? However, if you don't understand how or when something is to take place, just ask. If I know, I'll speak up.


I really wasn't confused by you, I was more confused by AnotherStander. His post felt very harsh after reading yours and as I've described in my past few posts, I struggle with believing my W is so full of lies and zero remorse. I fully understand she is still self-focused and her heart is still WW. Anyway, the tone of his post made me think he meant go dark for longer than just while she is away. Like I shouldn't be talking to her at all even when she returns. Maybe I just misunderstood.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Don't take responsibility or blame for her decision to cheat. Don't make statements to her like the one quoted above. I understand what you mean, but she won't be mentally/emotionally in a place to hear it, without taking full advantage of you. Many LBH's say something along those lines, thinking they are meeting the WW half way. No, he can't says things that sound as if he is taking responsibility for any of her bad behavior. Those were her free choices to make. Waywardness is not forced on another person. It begins with a negative mental attitude toward the spouse. It's like a lazer beam that is directed solely at him. She blames everything wrong in her life on him. The disrespectful actions begin to reflect what is in the heart, and finally rebellion acts out. Currently, she will want you to take blame for everything that went wrong in the MR.....including her A. It will be a big mistake if you agree. If there was ever a time you stand up for yourself, it is now. Do not give in or back down, thinking it will work out. It's only enabling her wayward mindset.


I understand. I will in no way, shape, or form accept any responsibility for the cheating. So far, she has not tried to place blame on me for that and seemed pretty clear about the fact that there was no excuse for it despite the issues with our MR. But I will be prepared.

Quote:

It would be wonderful if she spoke up and said she was willing to do whatever work was necessary to save the MR. If you were to tell her how she had to stop bossing you around, expecting you to cater to her, stop interrogating you, drop the self entitlement, start showing you respect as her H and as a man.........she might she'll try or she's willing....IDK. Somehow, I don't think she's going to make it that easy. Even if she agrees to do whatever you may list as stipulations to reconciling......for her to actually "do it", is another matter. Lip service isn't worth a pinch of salt if there is no action to follow.


I agree, I'm wary of her making it that easy because she is stubborn (you mention the stubborn pride...that is so her, even before all of this). I don't even know where she stands on the "wanting the MR" issue. She certainly seems to want some kind of relationship with me, but as usual, she isn't very explicit. I am no longer putting up with any of that wishy-washiness. I don't really know how to approach our conversation when she returns...I want to be in control, but I'm supposed to be waiting for her to explicitly ask for my forgiveness and ask if I will take her back right? Before I can give any stipulations?

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
I kind of regret saying that willingness was more important than remorse and commitment, b/c I think it confused you. Maybe it confused someone reading it, I hope not. Anyway, let me try to explain better. When I was a WW and had joined the board looking for someone to help me decide what to do, I finally made the decision to "do the right thing" and end my affair and stay in my M. I was not remorseful. In all the things different ones said to me, trying to get me to end the A and give my M another chance, there was one question I was asked that stood above all the others. "Sandi, for now, can you just make the choice to do the right thing"? In other words, they weren't telling me what they thought the right thing was. They weren't telling me how I should feel about anything. They said to do what I believed was the "right" thing to do. Well, that had hit me hard, b/c basically, that is who I am. I am a "Thou shalt, and Thou shalt not" type of person. (I realize how that sounds, considering I was in an A at the time). I knew I had to get back to that person again. But at that moment, I was so emotionally low and so tired that it was so difficult to find enough willingness in me to just get to the first level of willingness. That's pretty low! I strictly made my decision based on it being the morally & spiritually right thing to do. And let me tell you, I felt as if I had just sacrificed my life. frown I had no hope, no positive feelings, and certainly no excitement! I was so depressed in the following days that my adult D called a friend who was a RN, and was told to take me to the doctor immediately.


I think I understood what you meant. You were essentially saying that even if all her feelings aren't in the right place yet, the important thing is that she is willing to do the right thing and whatever it takes to try to get there, right? I have read a few of your posts where you describe what it was like trying to work your way back and how long it took. I think it is so admirable, but I admit I always get a little discouraged because I have to think you are a pretty rare person that was willing to make a choice, albeit right, that made you feel so miserable and for so long. Knowing my W's heart is WW makes me pretty unsure about her ability to do that, but I guess if you were able to do it, so can others.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
The first thing I did was end the A. The feelings of remorse did not come for almost two years. It's a long story and I won't take the time to explain why it took that long. I'll just say that my H should have required much, much more from me than I gave those first two years. However, he sat back and let me do pretty much whatever I wanted.......as long as he knew I wasn't contacting the other man. I was transparent (not that he asked, b/c he wasn't the one here getting the tools), and I learned that much from the board. delve ally worked on showing outward respect to him. Eventually, I began to feel the respect I was showing. I worked on my heart.......which is why it probably took nearly two years. Just b/c I had made the decision to stay in the M did not mean all my waywardness went out the window! No sir! Plus, with waywardness, there is a lot of stubborn pride. Some people call it false pride. It's bad. It's what keeps a person from apologizing to the one they've hurt. And if you already blamed your H for you having an affair in the first place.......you aren't going to be very quick to offer a sincere apology. So, anyway, I was coming home from work every day and hitting the DB board. I would stay here until I couldn't keep my eyes open and then hit the bed. Get up and do it all over the next day. It was hard, b/c there's not a lot of advice on the board for waywards. Oh yeah, a lot of H's want to tell a WW the same stuff he wishes his W would do.....but they didn't have a clue as to the mindset of a wayward. So, we learned together. Since my H wouldn't talk, I learned more how he probably felt by listening to the LBH's on the board. That had a lot to do with softening my heart. I also had some terrific mentors, and at that time, we could contact each other privately. So it helped a lot.


Do you think if your H had demanded more from you, it would have helped your process?

My W seemingly offered a sincere apology, more than once...but I know it could have easily been more of an apology for herself that she got caught.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Anyway, I never want to imply that remorse is not important. If it doesn't happen, I am not sure if the WW ever has much compassion for her hurt H. I mean, I just don't know. What's to prevent her ongoing justifications and blaming him for her actions, rather than taking full responsibility? You see, I think there is a difference in regretting something you did......from being deeply sorry for doing it. When you are so sorry that you hurt your spouse in such a shameful & disgraceful manner that your heart feels as if it's breaking......that describes remorse, IMHO. There is no sense of self-entitlement, whatsoever. There is no haughty attitude. There is no anger, resentment, or bitterness. There is no pointing a finger at him and accusing or blaming. There is no scorekeeping. There is no thoughts of how she felt then or feels now. There is only concern for the betrayed and terribly hurt spouse. The cold, hard heart has finally softened. The remorseful WW doesn't have arrogant expectations! She doesn't lay down the rules for what she needs from her H! At least, not at that point in time. If truly remorseful, she only prays that someday he can forgive her. Hopefully, these feelings will lead to full repentance (which means turning away from what you were doing). IMHO, it's that remorse and repentance that really humbles the heart and makes it possible for the WW to start replacing those negative emotions for positive thoughts and feelings for her H and their MR. It is like growth. It doesn't happen all at one time. You see, a lot of LBH's don't realize that the WW has a tremdous amount of heart surgery that must be done, and then she has to go through the rehabilitation....so to speak. She has to get her heart & attitude right, and then follow through with the right actions.


I completely agree with your description of true remorse. What are the next steps for me if she doesn't seem to be there yet? Start with the willingness part? I'm just a little unclear if we can move forward at all if she isn't yet at this place. It seems almost impossible she truly could be this soon. I think she still has mixes of all of it. You said it took a long time before you had that breakdown apology to your H, but you were already piecing before that, right?

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Since only God can see the heart of man, we only have the outward signs to observe. So, here is what you look for if she is genuine about wanting to save the MR. Her attitude, words and actions are paralleled. They match. She isn't showing a bad attitude. She isn't saying one thing but acting quite another way. They all match.


This makes total sense. As I said above, though, it seems like this can't all be congruent immediately...she still has her bad habits and everything will continue to be up and down. I guess I'm still unclear what exactly my expectation and plan of action should be moving into this next stage. What is acceptable and what I need to draw a hard line on and say I'm not interested.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Sorry for writing a book. No telling what all has been posted while I was rattling.


Never apologize! I love your books smile


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
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Quote:
I don't really know how to approach our conversation when she returns...I want to be in control, but I'm supposed to be waiting for her to explicitly ask for my forgiveness and ask if I will take her back right? Before I can give any stipulations?


No, but we will get to all of that. I will try to get it written down in a better organization, than my usual rambling. I also want to touch on boundaries, so don't let me forget about it.

It's so funny (to me) what you said about Another Stander sounding so harsh compared to my posts. He'll probably agree that ithat s quite a switcheroo. I always thought he was too nice with his own WW, and too soft/nice in his posts to newbies...... but that was pre-divorce. However, post-divorce, he has toughened up, in my book. ( LOL) But he really is a very caring, very patient, good guy. (I almost said, nice guy). I just get tickled, b/c I think this is twice someone switched our roles and made him the ole tough-guy, instead of me. grin (I love it).

Quote:
I think I understood what you meant. You were essentially saying that even if all her feelings aren't in the right place yet, the important thing is that she is willing to do the right thing and whatever it takes to try to get there, right?


Yes, exactly! I would not tell posters how long it took me to get to that point I was ready to put forth the energy and effort into my M again.......b/c I didn't want them to be too discouraged. But finally, I saw so many newbies in despair b/c they were not seeing I'm ediately turn around in their WW.

The wayward mindset does not just evaporate, like washing away dirt or something. If she doesn't have an authentic experience of remorse, then her heart will not likely have the same softness or humility and compassion that remorse helps to usher in. With or without remorse, it takes consistent work and time. You see, having remorse is needed, but it doesn't cure everything that's wrong with her.

Let me warn you. Your work and her work are not going to look the same to one another. In other words, she may not think you are doing any work at all, and feel it's all on her to do the heavy lifting. You may wonder if there's any progress in her heart, if you can't see outward evidence. So beware of more resentment if that happens. It will be discouraging when she displays one of her old, unattractive habits. When she does (and know, it will happen sooner or later) your job is to call her out on it right then, and don't let it ride. I think I've said this previously, but it is important enough to say twice. It is going to be the hardest thing either of you have ever done.

here is where I hope I can be more encouraging than my own personal story sounded. I was a lot older than yand W, and I had physical problems that robbed me of energy and gave me much pain every day. Due the physical issues, I also suffered with depression, so after I ended my affair, the withdrawals could have been worse than some others experience, but IDK. I probably suffered longer in a depressed state b/c of the various doctors I was seeing and how they were yanking me around with this AD, then taking me off cold turkey and then another doctor putting my back on a new AD......it's a wonder I was able to pull out of it all all. So, I feel all of that affected my "recovery" time. I refuse to blame it all on those factors, b/c i refuse to make it easy by giving myself any excuses.

If I had been a young and healthy as your W, I can't help but believe I would have had more physical energy, which causes more a more natural desire to become involved and interested. A few years later, I went to see a hormone balancing specialist and was told he didn't know how I crawled out of bed every morning. He said, "Sandi, you are a trainwreck". He said my sex hormones were registering zero. I had never heard of such! But he wasn't laughing when he said it. Well, guess what? They make stuff to fix that little problem! blush I just wished it could have fixed some of the other problems as well. Oh, and the depression did improve.....although I still have to take AD's and pain medication.

I have always believed if my doctors had not been yanking me off and on those meds, that it would not have taken me so long to start responding. So, I hope you'll find encouragement in knowing you W is strong and healthy. That goes a long way when having to deal with mental/emotional issues in the MR.

I don't know how many hours ahead of the USA you may be, but I want to try and cover what we can, and have you ask about any concerns you still have. I want you to feel confident that you have got this. And don't worry about getting in control or saying certain things before she has a chance to get the drop on you, b/c you'll get to have your say. I don't want you wound so right you are jumping out of your skin by the time you lay eyes on each other.

There is a link on Cadet's page (his first post to your first thread) that talk about boundaries. How to state them, examples, etc. I plan to get into them more tomorrow. I will also try to have a more organize flow of thoughts, rather than my usual rambling. Until then, I hope you'll read that link on boundaries. You might want want to google boundaries for couples. I hope to explain the difference in having boundaries and giving ultimatums. We can work on just a few boundaries you'll want to establish.

People coming back from this place you find yourself, often have the misconception they are both working to make one another happier, or be more romantic, or go on more trips, or some such stuff..........but they fail to do the inner work on themselves.......which will probably be different from each other. However, each of you must have a change in your own mindsets. You will need to refresh your mind almost daily on no more mr. nice guy. And, you need to set goals that will keep you on track, and not slip back into your beta behavior. There are forums and articles and books, etc. that help men learn how to be no more mr. nice guy and how to be the alpha, dominant male in their MR, and not fall into the trap of trying to appease the W to keep her off his case so that his life would be more tolerable.

I am tired and need to call it a night. I am going to the beauty parlor tomorrow and telling them to give me the works! (lol). But I'll save time to post to you, okay?

Oh, and about your gut feeling. Try not to worry about things like that. You say your gut says she is being honest. Okay, but you still aren't going to talk to her till she get back to the house. So, stay calm. If she is authentic, it will proves out soon enough. I just think you need to be prepared for different scenarios. We can get into it more tomorrow.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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