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J9, I guess I'm not pursuing, I'm not pressuring, but I am still allowing pleasant interactions between us to happen. Leaving the light on, so to speak. I don't know if I'm rationalizing, and letting her have her cake and eat it, though, and whether that makes me less than a man a woman would be a fool to leave.


On a related topic, I'm meeting W for lunch to go over dividing our assets before we meet with the mediator on Friday, where we will hopefully come up with a negotiated settlement. We're really just going to discuss the value of her house, so it shouldn't be contentious. We'll see.


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Jim, there is nothing in DBing against pleasant interactions. The key is that you don't initiate those interactions. Let her come to you. Otherwise it is pursuit and pressure. But when she initiates, for crying out loud, BE PLEASANT!! LOL Detachments is not being mean, or ignoring, or pouting. When you are pleasant with her when she initiates interaction THAT IS THE EPITOME OF BEING A MAN A WOMAN WOULD BE A FOOL TO LEAVE.

I really think the term detachment confuses most LBSs. That is why I prefer the term differentiation, or self-differentiation. It really is about finding happiness internally, not externally. It is about not giving anyone the power over your mental well-being. That you will be happy, healthy, pleasant, upbeat, and optimistic no matter what anyone else (including your S) says or does.


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Originally Posted By: Steve85
When you are pleasant with her when she initiates interaction THAT IS THE EPITOME OF BEING A MAN A WOMAN WOULD BE A FOOL TO LEAVE.


Thanks Steve. Your post really helped put this issue into perspective. Especially the line above.


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Had lunch with W to discuss settlement. I got a little emotional on the way over, but when I got to the diner I was solid.

She sat down. We ordered. We talked for about 30 minutes over our food, about our kids, the issues they are having, what's going on in their lives. We talked for a while about her house and the problems she's having with her A/C and furnace. I tried to be supportive and just listen.

We had to discuss some things so we didn't waste time with the mediator, and I wasn't sure how long it would take, but it turned out to be only a minute's worth. She totally agreed with me about how to value her house, and the conversation moved on. We could have had the conversation via a 30 second text, but I was worried we were going to argue for an hour. I brought all sorts of supporting documents. It turned out to be a non-issue. We stayed for another hour just chatting.

Two things struck me as we were finishing up. First was that nearly all of the issues and problems we discussed were the direct result of her deciding to divorce and move out. I thought about bringing that up, but in the end figured she simply wouldn't hear it if it came from me.

The second was that we were having trouble over a few days getting together to discuss this and she suggested I could take her to lunch for her birthday tomorrow. I already had plans, so I told her so, sorry. I'm having lunch with two of our best friends. When I realized that, it kind of made me sad, but then the vindictive side of me hoped that she would ask about my plans, and I could tell her. She didn't ask, though.

Also, I just think it's strange that she asked to go to the movies on Monday, and then suggested I take her for lunch on her birthday.


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Yes all that is interesting Jim. And while it certainly seems promising, it is too early to tell if maybe she is regretting her decision. Likely she is trying to remain friendly for the kids' sakes. And that is not a bad thing either. Since it will give you opportunities to show her of the new man you are becoming.

Is she doing anything other than this meeting to move the D forward? Looks like she filed going on 2 years ago? That seems like an awfully long time. Obviously that feet dragging on the D, coupled with some of her recent behavior suggests that maybe, to steal a line from AS, she is realizing her new life isn't going to be all unicorns pooping rainbow skittles.


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Jim,

You said the divorce will be finalized soon, right? I guess you'll find out as the final papers are processed if she has any regrets because the reality of actually being divorced will surely hit your wife whereas all this time it's just been one long detailed process to get to where she wants to be. Her life doesn't sound that great from what you've said. It's not as if she has an amazing boyfriend and she's traveling around the world and living out all her dreams. It sounds like she spends a good amount of time alone.

If you and your wife spent 30 minutes talking over lunch and then another hour after settling the house issue that doesn't sound to me like two people who are about to get divorced. It sounds like two people who are on a date. I'm not sure how often you and your wife did that before you separated?

It's hard to understand the reason for this divorce. It sounds like you've changed a lot for real. If you've changed then why does she still need to divorce you? I hope she's thinking those thoughts but we have no way of reading other people's minds. Perhaps she's content to just be divorced friends, or maybe after divorce she'll finally realize what she's done. The stories about people who divorced and then got back together are alluring.

I just noticed one thing in your signature - your wife appears to be older than you. This is interesting because as a man you could probably find a younger woman in her 30's or 40's whereas your wife at almost 60 might not have so, so many opportunities to date younger men. It just seems so strange for her to let you go. There's no affair on her part. We don't even hear of a MLC. It's not just strange because of age but because you've also been loyal, worked on changing yourself, and you have kids and such a long history together. You and your wife are kind of outliers here on this forum because your reasons for getting divorced don't seem warranted. They just don't seem to be so bad that they can't be fixed in counseling or with better communication. It's just odd. Perhaps I'd have to go back to read your old threads to remember more of her reasons but it really does sound like you've changed.


I wish the whole divorce thing could just be cancelled and you and your wife could start over but I guess it's not helpful to get too optimistic about that just as the divorce is about to happen. It would be nice though to see more signs of regret on your wife's part and effort from her side to take responsibility.


Keep us posted!

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Solid observations here Nicole! I agree, the lunch sounds more like a date than a D logistics meeting. And very good point about the age thing, and the opportunities for men and women of certain ages and prospects for future relationships. In fact, another author I read (not MWD) points out that often WWs will initiate D and then cold feet for the very dynamic you point out. Men seem to move on to post-D relationships much easier than women. IN the US, women make up 50.8% of the population so that might have something to do with it too.

Regardless, Nicole is right, as the D becomes more real, that reality will be something your W has to face head on.


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Originally Posted By: Steve85
it is too early to tell if maybe she is regretting her decision. Likely she is trying to remain friendly for the kids' sakes. And that is not a bad thing either.


There was not one indication of regret on her part.
I don't think it's just remaining friendly for the kids' sakes.
We've always gotten along very well, even through the D. This whole process has been weirdly amicable.


Originally Posted By: Steve85
Is she doing anything other than this meeting to move the D forward? Looks like she filed going on 2 years ago? That seems like an awfully long time. Obviously that feet dragging on the D, coupled with some of her recent behavior suggests that maybe, to steal a line from AS, she is realizing her new life isn't going to be all unicorns pooping rainbow skittles.


She hasn't really done anything to move the D forward, besides filing for alimony because she needed the money.
I'm the one who suggested she get her lawyer to send a draft settlement proposal, and then arranged mediation, moving this process along to where we are very close to an agreement. I believe that if I left it up to her, none of that would have happened.

She's realizing her life isn't rainbows and unicorns, and it's too bad that realization didn't happen earlier. Just like I would not have suffered the introspection without her filing and moving out, I don't think she will have her own epiphany without the D being finalized.


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Great point about the self-reflection and introspection and the need for something to trigger that. I feel just like you do that BD was my trigger to get my own [censored] together. I dont know that that trigger will ever come for our Ws, or if it does, if it wont happen too late (i.e. after we have moved on.)


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Originally Posted By: Davide
Great point about the self-reflection and introspection and the need for something to trigger that. I feel just like you do that BD was my trigger to get my own [censored] together. I dont know that that trigger will ever come for our Ws, or if it does, if it wont happen too late (i.e. after we have moved on.)


Yes BD is a huge wake-up call. MWD covers this really well in her books.


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