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Originally Posted By: STH17
Told W I didn't want a divorce, she would have to file herself, I couldn't stop her, etc. Now she is saying I am abusing her by holding her hostage in our marriage, by not streamlining the divorce with her. That what I should have told her was there was no way I could expect her to give me another chance. If I don't speak my thoughts to her, she thinks I'm abusing her by withdrawing. If I speak my thoughts and they aren't what she wants to hear, she gets just as hurt and angry. I tried to tell her that as strongly as she wanted a divorce, I did not. That she could choose to file, but I am allowed to make my own choice. She just doesn't understand that and thinks I am being stubborn and controlling. And me being calm gets me accused of being emotionless and robotic.


Yeah, well this is pretty par for the course. WAWs/WWs want their husband to do all the work and then try to guilt them into doing the work when the H refuses.

Also, why are you withdrawing from her? Detachment is not withdrawal. Make sure you are lovingly detaching, not ignoring. Also, calm is emotionless and robotic. This is actually a good sign. She is angry that she has lost control over you by being able to manipulate your emotions. Keep that 180 going!


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Withdrawal is my response when I am emotionally flooded. We actually talked about that a bit yesterday. W said she spews when she is flooded, meaning she says hurtful things in anger. I am glad she at least recognizes that. I acknowledged that to her and said that I shut down when I am flooded. We talked about the conflict in the kitchen earlier in the week when she said I didn't understand what was happening. Turns out I didn't. She apparently was just referring to how I was "icing her out", not about my avoidance of talking about divorce.

After we both talked about our experiences and different responses when we are emotionally flooded, I said I thought it would help if we could have a nonverbal signal to let each other know when that was happening to us and that we needed a break from conversation. I wish we had something like that worked out before so I don't just say something like "I'm trying to protect myself" again. I think she was open to that idea but we got sidetracked by something else so never agreed to any signals.

At the end of the night was when she came back downstairs to tell me how angry and abused she felt by me not working with her on the divorce. Especially custody, she thinks I'm refusing to work with her at all on that, that I'm leaving it up to her. I might have told her to come up with a plan by herself and I would review it with her. That just reinforced to her that I'm unwilling to do anything as a team with her. In typical fashion, I was at a loss for words at the end of the conversation, so she had the last word, telling me to write her a letter (since she was done waiting for me to talk).

So now I'm back to the apology letter dilemma, except now it's absolutely expected and I feel even more pressure to write it ASAP. She even told me the only thing I should be saying to her, rather than I want to save our marriage, is that I see how badly I have hurt her and there is no way I could ever expect her to forgive me or want to be in a marriage with me ever again. I can't really argue with that. I want a healed marriage, but I really don't expect that at this point.

Everything in our relationship right now seems to hinge on the emotional abuse narrative my wife is immersed in. I've struggled to know how to move forward with that. The ONLY solution to it seems to be an apology and me releasing her.


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She is controlling you with that narrative. And you are letting her. You have already apologized to her so why do you need to do it in writing too?

I will say, I think you are inline for making a huge 180. Stop stonewalling her. You call it "withdrawing when emotionally flooded". A description with an excuse pre-built into it. However, in reality when things aren't going the way you like
(what you call emotionally flooded) you default to a passive-aggressive shutdown. The 180 you could employ is to remain fully engaged throughout the conversation no matter how uncomfortable it may become for you. T:12, M:7, you've probably done this for about 11 years.

Is it emotional abuse? I don't think so. WAW/WW are notorious for blowing things out of proportion to justify what they want to do. Mine told me on bomb day that I was mean. 49 years on planet earth I've never once been called mean. Were we having issues? Absolutely, but while I was grouchy about the state of things, "mean" implies something else completely.

Like you I took full responsibility at first. Then I realized her game. Make overblown complaints about him so he will back off and allow me to do what I want to do. It worked too, at least initially. Then I found DB and the rest, as they say is history. Things started to turn around pretty quickly after that. I 180'd on my nitpicking, complaining, and verbal attacks.

You can turn things around too, but you need to recognize the behaviors that will work and stop the ones that won't. Doing the work for the D, and writing apology letters accepting full responsibility will only land you where you don't want to be: DIVORCED!


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Originally Posted By: STH17
So now I'm back to the apology letter dilemma, except now it's absolutely expected and I feel even more pressure to write it ASAP.


STH17,

To craft the perfect apology letter you should definitely not say something like, "I'm so sorry that you're a cheating douchebag." What you do is structure your letter like a scavenger hunt. Give her clues about where she can finder her stuff that you've hidden out in the yard and all around the neighborhood. While she's out gathering her stuff, you can change the locks on the doors.

Now that's a perfect apology letter.

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I actually think I am the primary but we restricted the kids to the town we live in and the school district. If one of us moves then we essentially give up our rights.


I think we did the same thing now that you mention it. My ex bought a house about 5 minutes away so it was never much of an issue!

Originally Posted By: STH17
Told W I didn't want a divorce, she would have to file herself, I couldn't stop her, etc. Now she is saying I am abusing her by holding her hostage in our marriage, by not streamlining the divorce with her.


Steve is exactly right, you stood up for yourself, she feels her control over you slipping away and her reaction was very, very predictable. You handled the conversation great, don't worry about her reaction. Even though she'll pout and rant about it, inside there's a bloom of respect for you that's starting to sprout.

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I tried to tell her that as strongly as she wanted a divorce, I did not. That she could choose to file, but I am allowed to make my own choice.


Damned straight!

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She just doesn't understand that and thinks I am being stubborn and controlling. And me being calm gets me accused of being emotionless and robotic.


She's trying to manipulate you and guilt you. You didn't fall for it, nicely done.


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At the end of the night was when she came back downstairs to tell me how angry and abused she felt by me not working with her on the divorce. Especially custody, she thinks I'm refusing to work with her at all on that, that I'm leaving it up to her. I might have told her to come up with a plan by herself and I would review it with her. That just reinforced to her that I'm unwilling to do anything as a team with her. In typical fashion, I was at a loss for words at the end of the conversation, so she had the last word, telling me to write her a letter (since she was done waiting for me to talk


She was not asking for a letter of apology!

Look, I well understand the frustration on her end. My H would shut down and say nothing. The more he shut down, the more upset I became. It was a vicious cycle. I could not understand him and how or why he couldn't just open his darn mouth and say something. I would get so hurt and angry, I would say terrible things trying to get some kind of a response from him.

Based on your description of the conversation, she wants you to write down what you want in the divorce, custody, etc. You were flooded and couldn't find the words to speak, so she's telling you to write them down.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: Steve85

I will say, I think you are inline for making a huge 180. Stop stonewalling her. You call it "withdrawing when emotionally flooded". A description with an excuse pre-built into it. However, in reality when things aren't going the way you like
(what you call emotionally flooded) you default to a passive-aggressive shutdown. The 180 you could employ is to remain fully engaged throughout the conversation no matter how uncomfortable it may become for you. T:12, M:7, you've probably done this for about 11 years.

Is it emotional abuse? I don't think so. WAW/WW are notorious for blowing things out of proportion to justify what they want to do. Mine told me on bomb day that I was mean. 49 years on planet earth I've never once been called mean. Were we having issues? Absolutely, but while I was grouchy about the state of things, "mean" implies something else completely.


I agree with you, and I think if I could 180 on this effectively I wouldn't have a lot of the problems I have now in my MR. The other 180 thing I've done that actually seemed to get noticed by W was talking to her about conflicts instead of ignoring them.
Our marriage counselor was the first one to call my behavior emotional abuse, and that was our last appointment together before he transitioned into being only W's individual therapist.

Originally Posted By: sandi2


She was not asking for a letter of apology!

Look, I well understand the frustration on her end. My H would shut down and say nothing. The more he shut down, the more upset I became. It was a vicious cycle. I could not understand him and how or why he couldn't just open his darn mouth and say something. I would get so hurt and angry, I would say terrible things trying to get some kind of a response from him.

Based on your description of the conversation, she wants you to write down what you want in the divorce, custody, etc. You were flooded and couldn't find the words to speak, so she's telling you to write them down.



Well that means I probably need to start all over with what I had written. Unfortunately I dug myself a hole yesterday where now I do need to give her some letter, as she knows I was writing and before finishing writing the real letter I just gave her a short note which said: "Dear W, I'm not done writing, but I can't write any more tonight. I am taking all this seriously, and I'm sorry for the pain you have felt and are feeling now. Goodnight. -H"
I went back and forth between "I'm sorry for the pain you have felt and are feeling now" and "I'm sorry for the pain I have caused you." Doing some reading today about what makes a good apology I learned I chose the wrong wording. At least she didn't take the note from me, I just showed it to her and kept it myself. Maybe I need to lower my expectations about what this letter is supposed to be then. Perfectionism is what I have been working on in therapy myself too.


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Well no letter writing tonight because I was worried W's depression was heading towards suicidal. She came home from her workout and laid on the front lawn motionless staring at the sky for twenty minutes, then came inside and sobbed in the shower. Heard water sloshing so followed S4 into the bathroom. She was lying in the tub with her clothes on, but tub was drained, my worst fears not realized. Got son in bed, then went back to be with her. Told her I knew I wasn't the person she wanted to talk to, but could I get someone on the phone for her? She said nothing mattered. Eventually she got out and went to bed. I called a suicide hotline, first time I've done that. I checked up on her after that call and found she had dressed for bed but still depressed of course. It's hard to see her like this. She said I win, that I get to keep her as my bird in a cage. She feels utterly hopeless. What is detachment supposed to look like in this situation? I'm not a therapist and can't treat her depression, and at the same time to her I am triggering her depression now. I dunno any answers, so I'm writing this here and going to sleep.


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Well it's hard to say whether she is well and truly depressed/ suicidal or just being a drama queen to get a reaction out of you. What did the suicide hotline suggest? My suggestion to you is pull back, don't write the letter, don't try to talk about the R. Maybe ask her if she wants to talk to someone and offer to pay for it. If she shuts down on you then don't keep pushing her. If things don't improve or get worse then call that number again.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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STH17,

It sounds to me like her boyfriend dumped her so she has to return to her husband so she can be the bird in his cage. She's playing you. I hate that sh*t.

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