she's gonna from being informal to back to using our names...it triggered me initially but then more time with D is great and nothing I can do so just shot off my reply.
She continues almost as if in desperation in wanting me to do something in saying that our R is only a piece of paper now. Course when I say we could address that, she says she has nothing to say nor will see me. I know the ball is clearly in her court on this, but it's extremely frustrating to hear her circle logic on it. It is HER that can break us out of this loop but she thinks it's on me.
You're frustrated by the surface circular logic of what she's saying, but if you look at what's really going on, its perfectly logical: she wants out of the relationship, but doesn't want to be the bad guy. Therefore, she wants to put the breakdown in the relationship and the potential "get well plan" entirely on you, and then wants to create barriers making it impossible for you to execute on any kind of get well plan.
That way she comes away from it as the victim -- you ruined the relationship and you failed to fix it. She walks away emotionally guilt free. If you look at this as her objective, then her surface circular logic and counter-intuitive arguments are actually perfectly logical.
Originally Posted By: ballast
I do wonder...for a WW with young children is there any thought in their mind on the impact their actions have on their child? It's one thing to not give a lick about how the LBH feels, but is that the same with their children?
There's a relevant quote about the fact that prisons are full of people who claim to be innocent. When humans do bad things, they typically will feel intensely guilty about it for a short period of time. Eventually the brain goes into self-preservation mode and starts inventing rationalizations so that the events in question were not that person's fault, or what they did wasn't so bad, or that everything will be okay despite what they did.
Once that "salvation narrative" starts to get created, they will hold onto it for dear life, seek out any shred of evidence that supports it, and ignore or reject anything at all that contradicts it. Its like an act of self-hypnosis.
So the WAS knows the impact on the children, but eventually self-hypnotize themselves into believing its all for the best and everyone will be okay, and its your fault anyway.
The thing is ballast, if she told you that you are responsible for fixing the relationship, and told you how to do it, and you actually did that you would fail before you started. That's not how relationships work.
If you were in high school and saw a girl you wanted to date, you wouldn't ask her how to create a relationship with her, and if she told you and you did that, you'd quickly be discarded.
Relationship and attraction are about value. People who jump through hoops for you are not valuable, and are therefore not attractive. You value people who are confident and self-sufficient, and that you feel you need to work to get. When you get attention from those people you feel good about yourself.
That's why GAL, act as if, and heading the other way work. You're establishing yourself as a person of value who is not going to jump through these hoops or tolerate this crap.
Double down your efforts to lead a life that anyone would want to be part of.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Acc...I'm doing exactly as you say...BUT...last night I caught another huge round of jealous/anger from her. because our shared data plan has been used more than normal, she stated that I was sneaking around while playing the victim. this is of course complete BS. I have shed way too many tears/said too many prayers wanting to save our marriage. I told her I do not want a divorce but will not stand in her way. She said call logs prove otherwise to which I lol'd. God can stop me from seeing my D immediately if that were true. She tried to push me, but I stayed detached, said I'd work with her to separate our finances and then that I was going to bed.
Taking my ring off really caused her to start talking crazy. I had read all these other stories on here, but said "nah, W is not like that"...that she has come out so crazy jealous just blows me away. I'm proud of myself that I didn't take any of her baits for a fight nor pursue her. Detached, act as if and went on. Anybody have any further suggestions/comments on how I handle this would be appreciated. The dynamics of our MR have really changed dramatically and suddenly.
I should not have reiterated my stance on a possible D. I see that was a sandi rule I screwed up. No more of that will come from my mouth. A mistake, dust off, move on.
Acc...I'm doing exactly as you say...BUT...last night I caught another huge round of jealous/anger from her. because our shared data plan has been used more than normal, she stated that I was sneaking around while playing the victim.
It's probably a diversion tactic. Normally when people accuse their spouse of something that simply isn't taking place, it's because they are trying to launch a preemptive strike so they don't get blamed for the same thing (which they usually ARE actively engaging in). By putting you on the defensive she's drawing attention away from herself. Her goal is to make you focus on trying to defend yourself. Of course the more you do, the more adamant she will be that you are guilty because her goal is to keep you off-balance. You end up confused and angry.... and oblivious to what SHE is doing. So how do you respond- well when she makes baseless accusations, look at her as if a 3rd eye suddenly sprouted in her forehead and then go back to whatever it was you were doing. If she keeps pushing then just say "you are being ridiculous and I am not engaging in this conversation, end of story." Just shut it down.
Quote:
I told her I do not want a divorce but will not stand in her way.
OK well we went over that before and it's good that you said it, but don't keep saying that. That's a one-time conversation.
Quote:
I had read all these other stories on here, but said "nah, W is not like that"...that she has come out so crazy jealous just blows me away. I'm proud of myself that I didn't take any of her baits for a fight nor pursue her. Detached, act as if and went on. Anybody have any further suggestions/comments on how I handle this would be appreciated. The dynamics of our MR have really changed dramatically and suddenly.
I think you need to pull back more, there is still way too much R talk going on. Honestly who you talk to ceased being her business when she decided to end the M anyway. Whether you're talking to someone or not is no longer her business. That is how you need to look at it.
ballast, that is all true. I think the problem we make as newbies is trying detachment, 180s, and GAL only in terms of trying to get our spouse to come back to us. The problem is that they can see right through that. They can tell when we are just doing something to manipulate them.
As AS, and the other experts here point out, it isn't until we detach, GAL and 180 ONLY FOR OURSELVES that ironically the WAS suddenly takes notice and starts to get interested in what is going on. But by then many of the LBSs have already moved on and are really ready to end the MR. It is a weird dynamic.
If you DB to try to change your spouse, you will fail. If you DB because you truly want to prepare for life after your D then suddenly the WAS starts showing signs of wanting to R.
That was my point in my last response. It is like trying to fake sleeping while keeping one eye open to see if the person you are trying to fool notices. They can always tell you are faking because of your eye being open.............
^^^Yes exactly, and when someone sums it up so nicely it always reminds me of the lines from Swingers:
MIKE And what if I don't want to give up on her?
ROB You don't call.
MIKE But you said I shouldn't call if I wanted to give up on her.
ROB Right.
MIKE So I don't call either way.
ROB Right.
MIKE So what's the difference?
ROB The only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. See, you can't do anything to make her want to come back. You can only do things to make her not want to come back.
MIKE So the only difference is if I forget about her or pretend to forget about her.
ROB Right.
MIKE Well that [censored].
ROB It [censored].
MIKE So it's almost a retroactive decision. So I could, like, let's say, forget about her and when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her.
ROB Right...or more likely the opposite.
MIKE Right... Wait, what do you mean?
ROB I mean first you'll pretend not to care, not call - whatever, and then, eventually, you really won't care.
MIKE Unless she comes back first.
ROB Ah, see, that's the thing. Somehow they don't come back until you really don't care anymore.
Acc...I'm doing exactly as you say...BUT...last night I caught another huge round of jealous/anger from her. because our shared data plan has been used more than normal, she stated that I was sneaking around while playing the victim. this is of course complete BS. I have shed way too many tears/said too many prayers wanting to save our marriage. I told her I do not want a divorce but will not stand in her way. She said call logs prove otherwise to which I lol'd. God can stop me from seeing my D immediately if that were true. She tried to push me, but I stayed detached, said I'd work with her to separate our finances and then that I was going to bed.
Taking my ring off really caused her to start talking crazy. I had read all these other stories on here, but said "nah, W is not like that"...that she has come out so crazy jealous just blows me away. I'm proud of myself that I didn't take any of her baits for a fight nor pursue her. Detached, act as if and went on. Anybody have any further suggestions/comments on how I handle this would be appreciated. The dynamics of our MR have really changed dramatically and suddenly.
Ballast, you really really really need to try to get over your Nice Guy Syndrome AND detach from her emotionally. You are allowing what she says, and how she says it, to really affect you emotionally. That is unhealthy EVEN IN A GOOD RELATIONSHIP! Being overly attached, and not differentiated in a bad relationship will make you spin and spiral constantly.
I am sure you are well read in the detachment thread, but if you need to read it again. Her words need to be to you like water on a ducks back. It needs to roll off. YOu need to hear her, acknowledge, even validate, but then let it go.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve...honestly man while my posts show me explaining alot esp about my feelings, last night I really was detached. I mean now that what she is saying is completely crazy...she's enabling me to detach. I know I don't want that kind of dysfunction in my life. That is NOT to say that I'm not still very new at doing this and making mistakes but my friend I have moved much forward in my mindset as she has these outbursts.
Stander I appreciate your comments esp the Swingers entry! As I say I'm continually working to improve myself and how I address what she throws at me. I am stronger today in my outlook for the future than I have been since this began.
ballast, but again the problem is that you are having these emotional swings, and your W can detect that. She can see the effect her words have on you. No matter how much you think you can hide it. That is what the point of AS's Swingers post is, they will always know when it is just an act or if you really don't care.
Remember, water off a ducks back..............
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
