ballast no. All of our WWs are/ were crazy. A WW is the epitome of bipolar.
I had to attend a family funeral this afternoon. But I thought a lot about your sitch. So what would have happened if she had said yes to your question. As AS said you can't enforce it. Likely she is in an eA or PA already.
Essentially what you were saying to her was "tell me what I want to hear so I feel better". Your discussion with her meant nothing yet you are making it mean everything.
As Accuray said, take some time on this one. Let your emotions run the gamut and then decide how to move forward.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Also if she does not want me but does not want anyone else to have me AND I still want to DB what do I do
When you say you want to DB, what does that look like? Can you describe it to me? (I used to absolutely hate these type of questions, when asked of me. )
Maybe I should ask it this way.....what does her not wanting you and yet not wanting to be replaced, have to do with your decisions?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Steve of course you are right on saying it can't be enforced. I will say as I noticed I hadn't said it before, she did say she was not dating anyone nor having sex with anyone. again not enforceable and who knows if truthful, but was said.
Sandi that was a poor and desperately stupid comment of mine. the last week of her emails that were WAY not normal, I was unprepared for and left me floundering.
What I should have said is that I do want to save our marriage, I feel as though I screwed up, I AM GALing and detaching and thought I was doing the detaching pretty well, but it was like every day she hit me with these loaded bombs that I did not know how to handle. she has said the love is gone replaced by anger/resentment. my IC has said she can be helped with that but of course she would need to seek it.
Sandi I would say what she wants has nothing to do with my decisions. my decisions are my own and I'm responsible for them alone. what I am guilty of is/was trying to show her that she could lose me. by my keeping my ring on I felt as if I was projecting this continued since of hope that may have repulsed her OR made her think like I was accepting of her running around while I waited idly by. As she will not even see me, nor look at me when she comes to get our D, I was hoping to change the dynamic/balance. I avoided conflict with her during our M, always tried to please her such that I feel I lost her respect, attracting and ultimately her. I know I'm a good man, all of my girl friends know I am, so I decided to match her in removing my ring. clearly it got her attention however I was not prepared to properly address the consequences.
as I've said before I love her, I hope that I might have the chance to R with her someday down the line. at this early stage I have no idea how much pain I can stand while I'm trying to do my best with the most counter intuitive process I've ever heard of.
lastly let me say thank you, I have read a ton of your writing and so much of it makes sense to me. it's in the application of that knowledge to my sitch where I clearly struggle.
IMHO, the first thing you need to do is stop trying to persuade her. You want to save the M. That's fine, but currently, your W doesn't share the same feelings. Don't you just hate when you don't have the same point of view or emotions that another person has....and that person is always doing something to try to persuade you to come across to his way of thinking/feeling?
Some LBH's feel as if they have to give regular reminders to the WW that they don't want a D, and they thought the S was to work on the MR, etc. (BTW, she lied about that part, of separating to work on the M issues). This only is not necessary, but it is a "turn off" for the WW's attraction.
Even if you don't just come out and tell her that you want to save the M......everything about you is sending that message loud and clear. And as long as she knows you are staying warm, sitting on a back burner........she will poke along in her wayward state, b/c she knows you are holding out to save the save M if & when she ever decides to come back.
When I was in an A, I remember one time my H passed by the place I had a picture framed of our grandchildren. He said something about how precious they were. I immediately resented it, b/c I could read his body language, tone of voice, facial expression, etc. I saw it as him trying to apply emotional pressure on me. I know him.....and he is a nice-guy, passive-aggressive type. Your W knows you better than anyone, and she reads you like an opened book.
Don't think you are not DBing if you aren't giving out silent messages of how desperate you feel, or that you have to reassure her you are still available, or disclose your love for her. Those things are not DBing, IMHO.
You must stop responding as if she's still your W. Stop thinking and acting as if she is still your W. She emotionally divorced a long time ago. So, you must cut your emotional strings you have tied to her, and let her go. She will know, when you really let go. No need to announce it, like I've seen some LBH's do. She will be able to detect it.
You are right that she doesn't want you. She doesn't want to be your W. The WW wants the benefits that come with the M, but she doesn't want the obligations and responsibilities that go along with a MR. WW's are extremely selfish and jealous. If she thought her "position" was threatened by another lady.......she would be temp checking you all the time to secure her place in your life. Those type of behaviors can cause a LBH to be confused, if he is not wise about the mindset of WW's.
Being a man with NGS causes a lot of internal struggles for the LBH. He doubts what his type of responses to have with his WW. She fears making her angry. Any form of tough love, scares him to death b/c it goes against what his NGS dictates. Pulling back and not being available to her, makes absolutely no sense to him. So, he is dealing with a double whammy........a WW and his NGS.
Learn all you can about the two subjects. Don't let your emotions dictate your actions. Your W does not have a logical mindset. Therefore, you cannot reason with her. She operates from her emotions (based on whatever feeling she is having in every minute of the day). You cannot trust what she says, or even what she does while she continues on this wayward path.
I know you still love and want to save the M. Nobody is telling you to stop. However, you may have to love her at a distance. We can't make people love & desire us, if they are determined to have none of it. Why should we chase and plead to have another chance with that person, when they are fighting to get away?
Before marrying your W, would you have shown the same pathetic behavior? No, b/c you had dignity and self esteem. You could see how that type of behavior from a guy was such a turnoff. Somehow, he seems to lose that insight when he gets M and then becomes the LBH. It's important that you regain that insight you had a single man. Don't compromise your integrity, no matter how much you wish to save your M. Find the man you once were......or become a better version. You can't stay stuck in this mindset you currently hold.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi so until last week I thought I had been doing good on not pursuing. The day I take my ring off I'm texted by her BFF for the first time ever where she sounds like she wants me to come see her, then asks me how I'm doing, then says she is unaware of how W is handling us, tells me about W's struggles and then says we need to date and I need to fight! I say I love her, I have asked before, but she's closed to the point of not even seeing me and I get "she'll regret this". Next I get from W that her BFF is off limits, there I say my interest is in her and so I failed I feel. Two days later, I get the whole don't bring girls around our D and here again I say I'm not seeing anyone until we D. So I reacted like a good boy should and here again feel I failed. Finally I heard from her in a anger, she's not seeing/having sex. Then a sentence saying I'm not committing adultery. Here again I failed as has been pointed out by asking the stupid question in the first place. The only thing I might have done positive is to say I'm done.
I was "told" we would work on the MR. Course that never happened. If she was to file without doing anything at all to save the MR, she's way more cold and closed than I ever knew. She is stubborn and determined though which is why I don't doubt she will. How she could live with that level of guilt/regret I have no idea.
If she is WW, lying, messing around with OM, no matter if I love her I don't want her back. As I say by myself I have been able to pull way back from her and detach, but she pulled me back in this past week with the drama. Toughest part for me is how she said "you are a good guy, we were nothing more than roommates and I need/want so much more than that". Basically saying I was a terrible husband. The impact of our D changed our MR, he BF told me how she has struggled with that. More so than an OM, feeling like I failed her hurts worse. I know it takes two and I know she did nothing either, but to be grown adults and just let the MR die...as I say she is WAY stronger willed than I.
In one of your posts you provided sort of a checklist for LBH's to help the WW feel the loss. Besides the obvious of removing myself to her, this week I plan to remove all financial support and I've contacted an L. Best as I can recall I believe that will (so long as I don't get baited) cover all of the steps you advised an LBH should take.
I have no proof of anything about her being WW, she could be just a walk away. I have never done a thing to snoop/find out and don't intend to. I know from her past relationship that she snooped constantly on her ex worried that he was cheating on her and then...he finally did. Best I know she asked for S, told her whole family we would work on us and then just closed shop. Anyway I guess all I have is let her go, live for myself and look forward to finding someone new although if she is WW as folks think, pretty sure I'm gonna be closed down to women for a long while. The whole idea that she could be a WW and NOT file just seems so illogical/crazy to me. May be at the year mark I file and end this. I would hate that, but I don't see me hanging around at all if OM is in the picture.
And yep Acc you are right. Again chalk that up to newbie reading about boundaries for the first time...off trying to set boundaries Nothing I will do has any impact on her from the way Sandi and others tell it. I was approaching her as a rationale adult, clearly as has been pointed out, I should not be doing that. I guess as this marriage looks doomed, at least I will have learned much by suffering a great deal as your quote and comments highlight one such lesson. This whole exp is like a foreign language with me being a really bad student
she said you are a good guy, we were nothing more than roommates and I need/want so much more than that . Basically saying I was a terrible husband.
She is not saying you were a terrible husband , she is saying that in her re imagining of your history she did not have the feelings for you she felt she should have had.
It is crazy talk and you can safely ignore it
Acc
Last edited by Cadet; 05/20/1811:59 AM. Reason: restored post
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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She will be able to detect it. 
Nothing I will do has any impact on her from the way Sandi and others tell it. I was approaching her as a rationale adult, clearly as has been pointed out, I should not be doing that. I guess as this marriage looks doomed, at least I will have learned much by suffering a great deal as your quote and comments highlight one such lesson. This whole exp is like a foreign language with me being a really bad student 