Can I really do this #2

[sandi2]

Thanks for the explanation about her health. For her to think she could hold any type of job, just shows how her mind is in la-la land.

[mtb1981]

My W was similar to this. Broke her back when she was 16, and has been on opioids for years. Eventually develped an addiction. Those things suck the life out of people. Other back issues came into play, and the doctors told her things were only going to get worse as time goes by. She also did very little around the house and had no job. Since BD, I thought the same thing AS said. How in the heck is she going to be able to take care of herself? I planned on growing old with her and taking care of her along the way, but now that may not be an option...

[Dtrmned]

Good Morning and Happy Monday!
I wanted to start this post off with just a thought.
Prior to her desire to D, I had zero intention of ending our MR and I was committed to the "better or worse, sickness and health" vows we both took. I feel these through my heart, mind and soul. With that said, please do not view me as a saint for "hanging in there". I have made and own my issues in our MR. I am not and never was perfect. However much I believe that we are an amazing couple when we click, the health, financial and just life issues have really played a huge part in getting us here. I do believe the opioids, anti-anxiety, and other strong medications have affected her as well. It has definitely caused her to introvert her life.

I am not defending her. I just wanted to point out that I own my part, have willingly admitted it, and would still gladly re-focus and continue our MR in the 2.0 scenario.

Weekend was good. Getting the kids ready for finals and wrapping up the school year! D had spend the night at a friends house on Friday so W wanted to go through the mediation questions on Saturday around lunchtime. I said sure. We sat down. I tried to set the tone and said that we weren't going to solve everything today, that this is again her choice to do this, I wasn't going to stand in her way, but that I was going to protect myself and our children.

Questions started and comments were made. These, to me, were easy questions since we had discussed them mostly already. Custody of the kids? 50/50. When/where to drop them off? I'd suggest that each pick up the children Friday afternoon from their school every other week. Keeps us from seeing each other and keeps the kids on their general schedule. Starting talking about communication between child/parent and parent/parent. Decent conversation, but did veer off a bit as we were talking about the coming week. Steer back to questions. As we got to Money, that's where it got interesting. W says she knows she is going to have to get a job, I asked how the search was going since its been a few weeks since she had mentioned that. "I haven't done anything yet". me: "Well, you probably should". We talked child support amounts and there is a prenup excluding any alimony so I wouldn't entertain any thoughts on that. Then came the guilt, pity, etc. "We were together 20 years, you won't help me a little to get started?" "You invested this much into this venture and lost, am I not as important as that?" Sometimes it is tough not to laugh from seeing the exact same things happen across other MR conversations on this board. I simply said again " This is your choice. When we were are in an active MR and working as a team, we work as a team. When you decide to leave our MR and no longer want to be life partners fully, my responsibility to you ends. " She got a little upset at that point, we spoke about a few other financial things, what is she going to do to get her car out of my name, etc. We did not fight, but we decided it was a good point to end the conversation. Her feeling at the end was that we should probably get an independent 3rd party involved (mediator) to go through this. I said "if that is what you want then set it up". She said "I don't know your schedule". I said "you would do the exact same thing I would do, call and ask an available time, I would check with you if its ok, then book it, not that difficult". So everyone commenting that she just wants me to do the heavy lifting is accurate!

She didn't sleep well Fri/Sat or Sun night. Up at 4 ish especially this morning so I'm sure she will be napping later.

Or she will be out looking for a job. Who knows. I did ask about her friend who is feeding her a line of information along the way who she is supposed to work for when her friend gets their business going and she said, "we are waiting on finding an Angel Investor". Pie in the sky stuff.

Anyway, Another day, another week and working on myself. Things are happening and if they fall will do well for my children and myself.

Thanks for being there forum!

[SteveLW]

JS, we've all behaved poorly in our MR. Short of extreme emotional/verbal abuse, and obviously physical abuse (oh and infidelity) that doesn't give a spouse a right to bolt or start an A.

So own your part, forgive yourself and move forward. Too many LBSs take the blame and continue to apologize for things in the past they can't change.

[Dtrmned]

Owned it and have forgiven myself for the things that were within my control. This is her decision and I believe you have chimed in on the advice to let her drive the train, do the heavy lifting and let her realize her new reality.

Oh, and I often think back to Sandi2's comment that she is not my responsibility any longer, that my W "fired" me from that position.

These next few weeks will be interesting as the kids will now be home for the summer full time and how this is going to affect her moods, attitudes, personal time, etc.

Stay tuned summer campers! Class V rapids up ahead. Good part for me. I'm standing on the side watching the raft headed down the river. I refuse to get sucked into fights, arguments, R talks, etc. IF she ever changes and refocuses, THEN we can talk.

[hoosjim]

Wow, JS, that's a really tough deal medically for your W. I had no idea she was dealing with all that. Not to excuse her or anything, but... all of that, particularly the thyroid stuff, can't be helping the sitch.

I felt compelled to post about this because I, too, suffered from a lengthy period of oddball-type afflictions that eventually snowballed and, in fact, nearly killed me. It wasn't until I ventured off the beaten path into the realm of integrative medicine that I got the help I needed. My own issues boiled down to a root problem of heavy metal, particularly mercury, toxification/poisoning. I was very heavy consumer of large ocean going fish, particularly tuna, had a mouthful of mercury-laden amalgam fillings (and grinded me teeth terribly in my sleep to boot), and worked several years at a former munitions factory. On top of that, I have what is apparently not all that uncommon a genetic defect that significantly impairs the bodies natural ability to clear some of those metals. It was a perfect storm. I went through diagnoses ranging from gulf war syndrome to lyme disease to "fibromyalgia" (which, for anyone interested, is a non-diagnosis: It merely describes the person's symptoms and literally means "all your joints hurt.) At my nadir, I had a resting body temperature in the 95s or low 96s, tremors, brain fog, arthralgia in most of my joints, and was getting pneumonia about every 4 to 6 months. Finding the right doctors enabled me to identify the problem, and clear the root causes (replaced all my silver fillings, chelated out the heavy metals, cleaned up my diet, fitness regimen, etc.) I am now healthier than probably at any point since my early 20s. But it takes the right doctors. I am wondering if your W is getting the right kind of medical care. Doctors looking at hard-to-diagnose problems can sometimes do more harm than good. For example one of my early doctors was convinced I had some sort of chronic infection that required a long, strong course of antibiotics. Unfortunately, that ended up resulting, witn my surpressed immune system, with thrush/yeast/candida setting in and I ended up with an allergic fungal sinusitis which is not under control (thank you, Mayo clinic) but with which I will probably always be dealing with. I also still deal with a certain level of adrenal and thyroid suppression as there was a certain amount of long-term damage from the mercury, but my current doc has finally got me on the right combination of replacement hormones and I have been steadily weaning off some of them.

My point is, these things can be difficult. Very difficult, They can become all-encompassing and make everything else seem unimportant to the sufferer. They can also be aggravated by poor or overly dogmatic medical treatment. Some of what your wife is dealing with (structural damage to her spine) is unfixable, but a lot of what she is dealing with sounds like it could be systemic in some way... a lot of inflammatory and auto-immune type stuff. I kind of wish we knew each other in real life and I could refer you to some folks who might be able to help her (not that, at this point in your relationship, she would likely accept such help, but it might be worth a try.) I know for a fact from my own experience that thyroid issues can be touchy and can require a delicate approach. I was very lucky to find a doctor who is on the cutting edge of thyroid research and who is starting to change the philosophy of a lot of current practitioners who, she believes, are prescribing the wrong stuff at that wrong doses to a LOT of people. IDK, I am not a doctor myself, and even in terms of referrals can't really give you any advice on these forums, but I really hope your W is getting good care and, if not, that you/she can find her someone who can get to the bottom of her issues. The one thing my current doctors have impressed upon me is that in a lot of cases where you have a diffuse range of symptoms like that, is that there is often some root underlying cause... it may require peeling back a few onion layers, but oftentimes, as with my case, if you get to the root of the problem you can fix a lot of the ills.

I wish both of you the best. Chronic illness just flat-out [censored].

[Dtrmned]

Dear HJ,
I appreciate your insight and concern for my W's health issues. She has been diagnosed, misdiagnosed, mistreated (by dr's) and the whole plethora of things you mentioned. As I said, I am not defending her at all in her decisions and actions.

I do think it has a lot to do with her reflections on her quality of life, how her life has turned out (we live fairly well so this is not a reflection or comparison of our MR or myself), and just how she thought it was going to be. She has actually said that she thinks her health will improve drastically when we part. How can that be? These are mostly debilitating chronic long term issues. They will not magically disappear! Would I do anything to help get her the best medical care and treatment in the world, yes. But if she "blames" me for her chronic pain, thyroid issues and chronic IBS issues, wow, I have some real power out there!

If it takes her "getting away from me" to make her happy and healthy, then all I would wish for her is happiness.

I have been on the entire rollercoaster with her. The amazing times when we floated on air, so in love, finished each other's sentences, drifted days away together because nothing mattered, to the other extreme where we didn't know if she was going to make it through the surgery, let alone walk again, or whatever medical or medication up and down arose. When the stuff hit the fan, I just strapped on my saddle and rode harder to make sure we were ok, could pay the bills and make it through. Unfortunately, when it came the other way and I needed her most through the financial issues, she curled up in a corner and closed up like a turtle. We deal with things in different ways, but I didn't have the luxury to escape. I had to pick up and move on so our family could eat, survive and thrive.

Would love nothing better than to have her examine these issues, refocus and work. Again, not counting on it, and don't know if there will be time for it.

[AnotherStander]

I asked how the search was going since its been a few weeks since she had mentioned that. "I haven't done anything yet". me: "Well, you probably should". We talked child support amounts and there is a prenup excluding any alimony so I wouldn't entertain any thoughts on that. Then came the guilt, pity, etc. "We were together 20 years, you won't help me a little to get started?" "You invested this much into this venture and lost, am I not as important as that?" Sometimes it is tough not to laugh from seeing the exact same things happen across other MR conversations on this board. I simply said again " This is your choice. When we were are in an active MR and working as a team, we work as a team. When you decide to leave our MR and no longer want to be life partners fully, my responsibility to you ends."

Brother that was all perfectly said, well done!

Her feeling at the end was that we should probably get an independent 3rd party involved (mediator) to go through this. I said "if that is what you want then set it up". She said "I don't know your schedule". I said "you would do the exact same thing I would do, call and ask an available time, I would check with you if its ok, then book it, not that difficult". So everyone commenting that she just wants me to do the heavy lifting is accurate!

Outstanding! It sounds like you handled the entire convo perfectly. You were calm, reasonable, but stood your ground on key points. Excellent.

[Dtrmned]

And it continues....

W sent an email that she wants to schedule the mediator and sent an email to them. They sent an email back saying they don't do 30 minute appointments. They only do 1 or 2 hour appointments and ask that you have most ideas put down prior to the meeting. Based on the email I received, my W did not read any of this. It also says in the agreement that they will give zero advice to either side, are impartial and will remain that way. I believe she didn't read that either. They also said that they charge $200 per hour that is split by both parties. Fairly certain she didn't read that one! (expectation is that I would pay for all of it!).

She said "what do you think and we can talk about it later".

What do I think? I think this is crazy. Ok, got that out.

So, some feedback please.

Do I point out these issues? or just blindly go in there (I am not blind and already know what I would/wouldn't agree to) with her?

I want her to do the heavy lifting on this and I am fairly certain she still has no plan (based on our weekend conversation) as to where she is going and how she is going to pay for it. Right now she just wants to get out. Wants a fresh start, etc. etc. etc. blah blah blah...

[Dtrmned]

just a quick note.
W had a migraine last night when I got home so no discussions.
She asked a quick question about our change to new health insurance. I started to explain the program and she stopped me and said "I can't deal with this right now".

I stopped and that was pretty much an uneventful evening.