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JS, solid advice from hoosjim and I can say ditto. Most WWs/WAWs go into BD thinking it will be a cakewalk. Many have spent a lot of time lying to themselves. My W told herself all kinds of lies about how it would be easy and so much better for everyone involved.

It is sometimes unexpected places that reality hits them in the middle of their fantasy. A few weeks after BD, when my W was conflicted about whether to move forward with there D plans, our D14 came home from school and was talking about one of her close friends and how much they have in common. She went on to say how they always talk about how they have such idyllic lives because their parents are not divorced, like the rest of their friends. And then she started saying how many problems her friends of divorced parents have, having to deal with their step-parents, and going to visit the parent they don't live with etc.

My W even mentioned it later. I could tell her "kids are resilient" line of thinking had been shattered. You see WASs like to delude themselves that their actions do not affect others. The truth is that kids are ALWAYS affected by D. When one decides to D they need to realize that. Sometimes it is still the right thing to do (abusive relationships, drugs/alcohol, gambling etc) but even if the spouse initiating the D is innocent, they need to realize that it will hurt their kids.

Anyway, HJ solid post my friend!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Good Morning Everyone.

Great suggestions, feedback and counsel from Steve and HoosJim. Thank you both! And yes, my W thinks this will be a cakewalk, easy, and everyone will be happier when it is done. AND she, of course, doesn't want to do much to move it along either. Reading through this forum I was very prepared for the quite brief conversation late yesterday afternoon. W had asked that we start putting things together. We decided after she filed and withdrew in February that if we did it again, we were going to file jointly and hopefully keep attorneys out of it. So, she asked that I resend her some initial mediation paperwork (just some intake questions like child support, contact, health insurance, bills, etc.) that would help if we were to go that route. I thought that would be a good outline for her to go through, put down her thoughts and then we could visit this together when she was ready. I sent it to her 4 times (I think I mentioned this last week), and she still had difficulty getting it. Finally got it printed out for her on Friday. Nothing since until yesterday.

Here is the conversation:

W: I looked at those papers and it is pretty complicated. I think it is something that we need to work on together.

Me: I agree we need to work on them together, I just thought it would be easier for you to put down your thoughts and then we could work on the areas we would need to compromise.

W: But there is a lot of stuff in there.

Me: Yep. There is a lot of stuff to address.

W: Why are you being this way? You are always the tweaker when it comes to business/money/finance and this one you just don't seem worried about at all. And I don't understand any of this (more guilt, pity me, blah, blah, blah)

Me: I am deeply concerned and it is very important. Again, I thought it would be easier for you to get your thoughts donw and the discuss instead of us discussing it at the dinner table while the kids are at home.

W: Well, I have some energy now (health issues sometimes used as an excuse or valid reason at this point I think a combination of both for guilt and avoidance), maybe we can do it tonight.

Me: Sure, I'm headed out for a run, we can do it after dinner.

W: Wow, I don't know if I will be able to do that, I will probably have hit my wall (her term when she is done for the day and needs her heating pad and no deep conversations).

Me: Ok, just let me know. I'm headed out for my run. Just get me the stuff when you can.

And then I left out on my run.

Of course, no mention of it the rest of the evening.

Chuckled to myself on the run as I knew that this was what she was going to do. Textbook on this forum and textbook for my W. I have always taken care of everything financial. I think I mentioned right down to she hasn't even balanced a checkbook in 20 years!

I truly want the reality to set in when she goes through this and hopefully this will lift her fantasy fog and maybe, just maybe she can see things a little differently.

Other than that, it is a beautiful day. Reread the LRT this morning. Detaching more, planning some summer activities with the kids this week as their last week is next week. No idea how my W is going to handle this as this will seriously impact her schedule. Also looking to take a business trip or 2 that are overdue (I put them off due to the current situation). And thinking about going to see a couple of friends for a weekend trip as well.


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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JS, one of the things that started to really wake my wife up was when I spoke to an attorney. Why are you cake feeding her this "joint filing, with out attorneys" thing?

She wants the divorce, not you right? She should file. You should consult with an attorney (let him know you won't file, because he will try to tell you it is better if you do), so that you are covered. Next time it comes up tell her that you have decided you are against the D and won't file. And that you have consulted an attorney for guidance for when she does file.

When this happened in my sitch my wife looked like I just grew horns. She didn't know how to handle it. She never again mentioned D to me, though she claimed for a while afterward that she still wasn't sure about staying in the MR.

DO NOT FEED HER FANTASY OF AN EASY DIVORCE!


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Steve,
I am not attempting in any way to make it easy on her. When she filed (then withdrew a week later) in February, she retained an attorney. She then found out how much money the attorney charged just to file for her and then to withdraw so she got a HUGE realization on the cost involved in this. We don't have many assets left after the financial disaster, but what we do have left will definitely be exhausted by both of us if we use attorneys.

On my side, I have to be smart for myself and my children. My dream is to reconcile, retain our family and work on our marriage in a 2.0 scenario. Never going to back to where we were but moving forward to a better more fulfilling MR for both of us.

My W hates confrontations so her turning it over to an attorney would be actually easier for her so having her confront it first personally, to me makes sense. She has stated and believes that at some point something will happen and that I will draw my line and it will be turned over to attorneys. She has seen me in action for over 20 years and knows that when I do get to that point, that I will make that decision. My response to her was--Well, don't let it get there.

I have consulted with a few attorneys and will use one as well to go through everything on my side to be sure I am as protected as I can be throughout. I will not do this for her. Right now just letting her go through the motions on the checklist to let her realize how bad this truly is.

Financial part aside (and this is going to be a HUGE shocker for her) just the 2x4 that she will be without her children half the time, having to schedule communications, holiday schedules, vacations, schools, restrictions on the location you can live due to schools, etc. I am hopeful will be eye opening.


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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Be aware she may be willing to give up full custody to avoid most of that. I've seen it happen. Even my wife was going to give up custody of our D (they are very close) and have her over for sleepovers. My wife avoids confrontations too, which is why the talking to an attorney shattered her illusion of a friendy, easy D.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Understood and thanks for the input Steve!
I very seriously doubt that she would attempt to give up full custody, but then again, I never thought I would be here either!!!


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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Great thoughts from hoosjim and Steve85, read those a few times!


Originally Posted By: JustSad
So, she asked that I resend her some initial mediation paperwork (just some intake questions like child support, contact, health insurance, bills, etc.) that would help if we were to go that route.


I wouldn't even do that much unless YOU want D. Make her do all the work. Your stance should always be "I do not want D, but I understand it's what you want and I will respect your wishes and not stand in your way."

Quote:
W: I looked at those papers and it is pretty complicated. I think it is something that we need to work on together.

Me: I agree we need to work on them together, I just thought it would be easier for you to put down your thoughts and then we could work on the areas we would need to compromise.

W: But there is a lot of stuff in there.

Me: Yep. There is a lot of stuff to address.

W: Why are you being this way? You are always the tweaker when it comes to business/money/finance and this one you just don't seem worried about at all. And I don't understand any of this (more guilt, pity me, blah, blah, blah)


So there it is. She wants YOU to do the heavy lifting. DO NOT DO IT. Again, unless YOU want D you should not lift a finger to help her beyond providing her with any required info that needs to come from you. If she keeps pressuring you just tell her what I mentioned up above.

Quote:
Me: Sure, I'm headed out for a run, we can do it after dinner.

W: Wow, I don't know if I will be able to do that, I will probably have hit my wall (her term when she is done for the day and needs her heating pad and no deep conversations).

Me: Ok, just let me know. I'm headed out for my run. Just get me the stuff when you can.


Good! You handled that well. It's not your responsibility to put your life on hold to make it convenient for her to discuss D. If she wants to have that discussion then fine, she can do it when you're ready.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Does she have Fibromyalgia?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sandi,
No she does not have that. She has chronic pain from 2 spinal surgeries creating debilitating erosion that will just get worse over time. She has had her thyroid taken out which is a roller coaster in and of itself between the hyper and hypo scenarios and keeping the medication adjusted to keep her level. There is also a serious IBS issue that has been going on for about 8 months now. So chronic pain, chronic IBS (either total constipation or chronic diarrea (sp?). Add in the thyroid stuff and all the medications and yes, it is a pharmacy at our home. I know the pharmacists on a first name basis! Trying new stuff here and there, the opiods she has been on for a decade (trying to wean off of those but don't know how she will totally be able to do that with the pain issue) She has tried and sometimes still does CBD and/or medical mmj very sparingly. I am very anti drug, but I would rather have something to give her relief that is natural than something with 7 pages of side effects. Overall just a cluster of issues.

Example is presently she is in hypo. Her last endo doc (thyroid) retired so her primary is doing it until she finds another one. Messes with her appetite really bad. She doesn't eat much anyway (a little on the vain side, but I would say not in a bad way, just always has been concerned about taking care of herself, eating right and all of that.) So she is not eating anything really. Yesterday she had a paleo pancake and a banana. She also can't sleep due to the hypo thing so she gets up at 3-4-5am. I have NO idea what she does during the day, no job, etc. but unless the laundry is done, the house is clean or something noticeable, I have no idea. She is generally still in the same clothes she got up in. Also doesn't take her shower until I get home and gets immediately into her pajamas for the evening. Lately she crashes around 4-5 for an hour or 2 nap.

When she does have energy, unfortunately her nature is to do everything she can. She frantically will clean the house, workout, make a great dinner, etc. which will lead to her being just torn down for the next 2-3 days.

Her primary dr is trying to get her thyroid in order so he is having her skip one dose every other week. The last time she did this was 2 weeks ago tomorrow. So she skipped on Saturday and on Sunday, she got up at 5, asleep on the couch for 3 hours, got up and went upstairs and took a nap for 4 hours, then moved back downstairs to watch tv then back up at 7pm to go to bed. truly a wasted day. Well today she is skipping it so tomorrow should be a totally done day for her.

As I had suggested before, it is not totally out of the realm of possibilities for her to be in a PA. I would lean more on the EA/close friend side as all of these issues have made her very isolated over the last several years. Also, for what it is worth, she totally hates men, period. I used to be the exception. Her past dictates that way prior to me.

I know this is way more detailed than you wanted, but hopefully that gives you some insight into the major issues that she is dealing with. There are others, but I don't know how she is ever going to manage this by herself, with a job, 2 kids, etc. etc. etc. I don't want to be Plan B. If she doesn't choose to be with me for the right reasons, please move on.

Thanks again, Happy Friday and I thank you so much for your interest in my situation and my family!


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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And she wants to leave you? WHY????? Good grief you are a saint to stand for a marriage to someone with that many health problems that contributes nothing to home upkeep or to the finances! I mean I get it, I would have done the same for my ex when we were married if she had developed issues like that. But it's got to be hard not to just tell her "ummm yeah good luck doing better than me out there."


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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