Together 21 years. Married 18. Kids 14 and 11. I'm 51 W is 44.
Marriage spiraled out of control over the last couple of years due to huge financial crisis culminating in bankruptcy, foreclosure, etc. We didn't have anyone so we ended up taking it out on each other for the most part. W has serious health issues that we deal with daily. Believe she is in a MLC and a WW as well.
She is still presently dead set on leaving. Working on myself and the DB steps vigilantly.
I am not a saint and own my part in our issues. Hoping she will eventually see the light and realize our MR is worth her time so we can focus and have a better life than ever together.
I will post more as it happens....
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
Best I can say about yesterday is that I didn't take the bait, did stand up for myself and was slightly humored at my W's roller coaster.
Came home and went upstairs to change for my run. I looked good (wore one of my new suits that actually fit). Got 5 compliments that day on how good I looked as well. My D even commented and I used the word "snazzy". So W must have noticed as that was what I was wearing when she got in the room. I simply asked how her day was and how her health was that day. She paused, looked at me, and said "why are you so concerned about my health?" " are you keeping a diary of my good/bad days?" This kind of came out of no where as she has had chronic issues for almost a decade and I usually ask how her day was health wise so I can just genuinely see how she is. I told her I was not keeping track of anything. She said that she felt I was going to use this in trying to get custody of our kids. I stated that through our discussions that we had already decided we were going to do 50/50 custody and as far as I was concerned, other than asking how her health was to see how she is, I had no ulterior motive, nor do I have a desire to keep the children away from their mother any more than we agreed. She then went on to comment on the Friday incident, which in her mind is totally being rewritten day by day and is now a full fledged issue of boundary violations and me attempting to take advantage of her by putting her in that situation. She said "after our talk on Saturday, you didn't even say you were sorry". I stated that I apologized if she felt uncomfortable, that she froze and that it all happened. I will not apologize or say that I am sorry for truly trying to help her feel better by giving her a massage. I also stated that she was an adult, a willing participant, that I spoke when I did anything, and she was capable of stopping it at any time if she felt uncomfortable. From my perspective, she was not. Afterwards she said she hadn't been that relaxed and relieved of pain in a long time. She slept very well that night, in the same bed as myself, and as usual in her underwear. If you were uncomfortable, felt violated, disrespected, whatever word you want to choose, WHY would you continue to do that? She kept trying to escalate the discussion and I ended it. Said we could talk later, but right now I'd like to go for a run.
A few hours later, down on the couch, she starts in again. This time about how I never said I was sorry again. Again, I told her I apologized that she felt the way she did. I couldn't apologize for doing absolutely nothing wrong, communicating with her along the way, helping her feel better by relieving her pain and relaxing, and helping us connect just a little. Here is where I think the real issue is. That we connected. She is HATING this and is doing all she can do deny and discredit what happened. It was innocent enough, no romance, no sensuality, nothing like that at all, but it was 2 people physically connecting and relaxing. The only was she can deny this is to make it out to be a bad situation and I am the bad guy that took advantage of her. She is a grown woman! I did ask her why she didn't stop it if she was uncomfortable. She said "I should have". I said what would you have done if I would have "made a move" or done something inappropriate? Her answer "I would have kicked your A$$"." Ok, so nothing inappropriate happened, I did not act out of line, I helped you relax, and you were a willing participant and even commented on how well it felt afterwards. Now still 3 days later you are revising your story each day making it worse?
To me, again, attempting to rewrite recent history to her benefit.
She went on to discuss how I haven't done anything to move the D forward. I countered with "I sent you the mediation documents that you asked for and haven't heard a thing from you" She said, we should do it together. Why? I agree we need to work together to get this done (if that is the way it is going to go) but you can put notes together and we can communicate throughout.
She stated that she has this big feeling in the pit of her stomach that she is just going to get screwed all the way around on this. Didn't say this to her, but thought" No [censored]. This is not going to be fun. You haven't worked in 15 years, think its going to be a breeze to just pop out there and add in a full time job while taking care of 2 kids (half the time) , your health issues and a home. You haven't paid bills in 20 years or managed money EVER. You haven't had a utility bill in your name in 20 years. This is going to be way more difficult than you think.) For myself, I am not delusional. This is going to totally suck! But I am fairly prepared and working everyday to improve and do better for myself and my children.
Funny thing. I had a couple of medical tests done myself. She asked how they were. I told her everything was fine and not to worry about it. This was during the same conversation about me "prying" into her medical issues and seeing how she was. She said that she would like to be informed. I simply stated that she had just requested that I not pry, why not extend the same courtesy? My issues are my issues. Her response was, if you have cancer or something serious, I would like to know. I stated that it wouldn't matter, that the situation is still the way it is. She then said "I would change and wouldn't leave if it was something like that. I would not strand you after all you have stood by me through all of my issues". VERY strange to me.
Thoughts, feedback...
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
She stated that she has this big feeling in the pit of her stomach that she is just going to get screwed all the way around on this
Red flag, here. Women say this as a way of softening the man. She wants him to assure her he won't do......"whatever". It's her sutle way of guilting him, if he tries to take up for himself in the S/D. She knows he has every right to be legally fair, but she is self entitled and still wants him to treat her as such. It's just more self entitled b.s. She is going to stick it to you every way possible, and still expect you to give her more.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This is all the pursuit game. You have begun to do a good job of detaching and it is unsettling to her. You really need to hold the line on all of this. Especially her part of the D. She is wanting you do all the work. Classic WAW move. What WAWs would really like to say is: "I want a divorce. Call me when it is over."
In my sitch, after my wife stated her grand plan of getting a job, getting an apartment and getting a D, her hope, and she pretty much admitted it, was that I would agree to the D, and start the process. That would push her to do the first 2 parts of her plan. When I made it clear that I was morally and principally opposed to divorce and would be doing nothing to move it along, that was the first popping of her balloon. She knew a contested divorce would be a lot more work for her than she was willing to put into it. Likely your wife is the same. After all, her actions are speaking so much louder than words! She is doing nothing to find a job? She is doing nothing to find another place to live? She is doing nothing to move forward with the D.
And like everything else in her life she doesn't follow through on she blames you for it!
And you are right. She obviously felt safe on Friday night. She trusted you. AND she felt connected to you. And all three of those were counter to what she wanted to feel, but it wasn't until the next day that she realized it! And when she did she got angry at herself, but as with all of the above she blames you. That is what WAWs/WWs do, they blame the LBH for all of the things they don't like, even things that are fully in their own control.
Keep up the good work. I see two things happening:
1) I see you getting closer and closer to moving on from her every day. 2) I see her panicking about you getting closer and closer to moving on from her every day.
#2 comes out in very contradictory ways. Because she has convinced herself she doesn't want/need you, but the minute you start to move on it scares her. The fear causes her to try and do things to move you back into her realm of control. She then feels yucky for violating her own proclamation on what she said she wants, so she lashes out.
What you see is a very childish "GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY. COME HERE. COME HERE. COME HERE." Thus: "Stop asking about MY health. But oh by the way, how is your health?"
Logic? Reason? WAWs/WWs have no use for such things. Even when you point out their contradictions they can't see it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks Sandi2 and that is what I agree. The conversations are going to be avoided as much as possible and the ones we have I am going to remain on topic. I did tell her again that this is her choice.
She does know who I am and that if we get there, I will draw a line, if it is then crossed, it will result in us just turning it over to attorneys. Not what I want, but she does know that I am not afraid of using the rest of our resources to fight for what I believe is right (or wrong). I'd rather us agree, compromise as best we can, realize that neither of us is going to walk away unscathed.
The feeling in the pit of her stomach is also the fact that somewhere in her mind, she knows this is the VERY worst thing she can do for herself. She has made up her mind and is determined to see it through so she can see what life is like out there. I love her and always will. I will not be taken advantage of, I am not angry (any longer), I am truly what my name says, just sad at the situation, how it is going to affect ALL (kids and dogs included) of us and our lives.
We will survive, in different ways.
My W accused me of being narcicistic yesterday afternoon as well. Thought that was funny as well.
Thanks again Sandi2. I appreciate the input. I do think we are kind of moving from checkers to chess. No more dancing around, just strategy and time.
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
One other observation: It appears she is looking for an excuse to change her mind without looking like she WANTS to stay. Likely our changes have her second guessing her proclamation but it means that she was wrong in her proclamation. So instead she is looking for a "I didn't want to stay, but JustSad needed me for a huge reason, like cancer!"
That shows a chink in her armor.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You guys are great! I love the feedback and observations. Thank you so much!
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
W took her vehicle to get an oil change and tire rotation today. She has always asked prior to this. Her vehicle isn't due it for another 4k miles (oil change) and 8k for the tire rotation.
She just texted and said "hey, I used all the money in the joint account for servicing the car".
My reply. "ok".
Money is tight right now and this is the button she is trying to push. She wants the anger to come out. Really, I just think its laughable as I think she is realizing she won't be able to keep the vehicle anyway! Don't care as long as its out of my name...
And thanks again for the comments.. Yes, she is going to try to milk me for as long as she can for as much as she can. That train has sailed... And the cancer thing, I just don't know what to say about that. I have stood by her through a decade of issues (gladly, frustrated at times, but stood by her!) and this is her comment regarding that.
Roller coaster crazy! This ride is not for me. I am going to sit by, DB and I will not be baited into anything. If she does ever decide to refocus, it will be a different world. I will not nor would I ever "hold" her current decision against her. I would rather put it behind us and move forward together. Together or apart, I am working on my stuff and making sure my kids are ok. As much as she thinks she has it together, I don't think she has come close to hitting bottom or crashing yet. I do not wish this upon her at all. If she thrives, I will happy that she is happy. I just feel it coming...
Hopefully a quiet run tonight followed by a quiet evening. Who knows.... I feel like a sit com writer putting out the teaser for the next episode.
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
D has a field trip next week. W knew about it as I had sent her an email asking about the permission slip earlier yesterday morning. W said she had it all covered and it was on the table. Turns out there was $55 due on this that we had to pay today. I told D to ask mom for a check as I was headed out for a run and I didn't have any checks. W walks in and says "it doesn't matter if I give her a check, you don't put any money into our joint account anyway so there isn't enough there". A little pissed she said this in front of my D, so I did respond poorly and said "I guess your mom's vehicle service was more important for the money even though it was unnecessary and wasn't even due for a few thousand miles". I bowed out and went for my run. Felt bad that both W and I failed by not being united. I felt bad I let her get to me and I lashed out. 10 minutes into my run texted W and said to write the check and I will make sure the money is there in the morning. Got back from my run and asked to speak with my W. She is so cold now about everything! I said that I didn't like the way either of us handled it and I think we can do better. I didn't blame her, took my blame, and apologized for what I did. She shrugged it off, said she didn't have a chance to print out her mediation checklist paperwork and would do it tomorrow.
Weird to me...we all then, as a family, sat down to dinner.
Also, don't know what is happening, but got a few tests back and they are wanting me to come in quickly and are talking about referring and more tests.
Headed there tomorrow. A little worried, but good or bad I have decided this is a challenge for myself alone. Based on my W's comments, I don't want this to be a factor EVER!
W is still adamant about pushing forward at this time. I feel the ride is going to get WAY worse before it gets better either way it goes. I can't stop the train, I can step out of the way before it hits me.
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
JS, all the crazy stuff your W is doing and saying is pretty much script. Laying there happily accepting a massage and then later trying to use it as ammo against you, that's not at all unusual. She will look for every way possible to make you out to be the bad guy. I would suggest you completely stop ALL physical contact with her. Even if she ASKS for a massage or hug I would respond with "I'm sorry but I don't feel comfortable doing that given our current situation." It sounds like you did the right thing in just listening and validating when she kept bringing it up, so well done on that.
I'm sure sometimes you feel like you must be going crazy with all the mixed signals from her, but that is HER being crazy, not you.
The check thing, that's you letting her pull you down to her level. Next time she tries to bait you like that just remember that you are the ONLY person in the M conducting yourself with dignity and respect. Let her be ridiculous, you remain the rock.
